I don’t have the workout problem. The oddest thing about this is that I’m a running back at a division one school(1-AA, Ivy). On top of that I work out a lot-people tell me I look ok without the shirt. I thought that would be enough to help me get more girls. I even started drinking(never touched alcohol until I got here in september).

Of course, it isn’t enough…since I’m insanely needy and I cannot seem to stop myself from being that way. Chris was right when he said the best way not to be needy is to have other girls in your pocket already-that breeds confidence.

But that’s a problem when you’re an 18 year old virgin, and the peer pressure(teammates have had sex, non-teammates all getting laid) gets to you. Then you find yourself being needy unintentionally because at this point, you’re just anxious not to be THAT guy anymore. it creeps up on you.

Then its a slippery slope…the rejections build up. suddenly you fear more and you loose confidence. You become a pussy-you’re not persistent enough because you’re so sensitive to even possible rejection. You’re too cautious and end up in the friend zone because approaching a girl cold is too tough, and you start limiting the pool of girls you choose from. You think to much on the chances you do get(try too hard) and thus nobody laughs(or they laugh at you).

Then you obviously cant tell a good story…your life experiences are limited by age and you dont have the confidence to wing it…

Wow, I guess I’m kind of screwed. Way too many of these apply to me. I have to say I envy some of you guys, though. This seems impossible to me and yet guys on this site do it every weekend. It’s crazy.

Though I agree with Taubes, he does offer some kool-aid for his readers because he almost forgives obese people from being obese

Obesity is also a moral failure, a sign of lack of character. Obesity is a moral defect. Even though carbs help people get obese, the whole life style leading to carbs is the result of weakness and lack of will. Obesity, like pregnancy, doesn´t “happen” to people. People cause it to themselves and obese people must be held morally acounttable for it.

You don’t know what a girl’s buttons are. You don’t know how to talk to her in a way that makes her more interested in you as time goes on.

OK, anybody got any tips on those buttons? That’s my major sticking point. “Paul Janka game” (5 minutes to # close, then date) been most productive for me and I think I’m not getting all results I could. I do occassionally hit right on target, get them giggling and showing interest, etc, etc, so I know what I need to be getting. Which makes it even more disappointing when this reaction peters out in the next 5 min.

Chris- I am honest, and I don’t require a value exchange for sex. The two options that were on the table were drinks or dinner. I’d rather have a guy take me fishing, or to play laser tag, or hiking, or something less awkward than dinner. My point is, I want him to take me on a real date, I want him to show genuine interest. I’d fuck a guy that took me fishing after one date in a heartbeat.

The problem with you guys is that you never think outside the box. Pun intended.

Laura’s last blog post: Would you give up meat for Natalie Portman?.

And yeah, I agree that girls who would do that are shallow. But welcome to America. Its often very hard for guys to tell whether a girl is “money-grubbing” until several dates, or even months, in.
Some girls dont think that accepting a “platonic” dinner date is a big deal. Guys offer all the time, and so why shouldnt they accept? In their eyes, its not like their accepting jewelry. But its still messed up. Sure, some girls are so unskilled as to be obvious. But the intelligent ones are good at hiding their motivations. This makes it tough for us, and cynical after being burned by girls who use us. It really only takes 1-2 experiences to change a guys behavior, if he’s smart. Sure, you might be a sincere, smart, upstanding woman, but your sisters have long since ruined the general reputation of women in the modern dating pool long ago, for any man who is not a novice.

And you think a dinner date implies LESS that he’s trying to get into your pants? HAHA..thats a good one. Dinner costs MORE than drinks. Here’s the deal. Its an exchange of value, just like every other social interaction in life. And its a bad one for the man, because his paying for the meal puts him in a very vulnerable position. That is, she can then decide whether to reject or to accept his very expensive gesture of courtship. Now gestures of courtship are necessary, and fine, bu not to the tune of the $80 to $120 that it costs for the average dinner and drinks for two at a decent place. Its waaayyyy too much money to be spent in an effort to create attraction. Its not necessary, many women take advantage, and it sends the wrong message if there hasnt already been some significant level of attraction created in the woman. In fact, it sends a significant message that the guy is willing to pay for her companionship, which works against real attraction. If you think that a man has ever taken a strange woman on a dinner date, without the ultimate motivation of getting into her pants, then you are absolutely kidding yourself. Again, the fantasy worlds of women are a riot. Either he is lying to you, or you are lying to yourself, or both if you think otherwise.

No man, that is not your relative or doing legitimate business with you, has dropped $10-120 on you for dinner without the ultimate expectation/hope that he will get into your pants.
The value trade is the money for access to your pants. If you were honest, and didnt require such a value exchange for sex, then you wouldnt let him take you to dinner, especially a nice one. You would actually try to minimize such value exchanges, until after sex when they are legitimately done to get to know you better, and you would sleep with the man for who he is rather than what he has spent or done for you. I know dinner feels nice and romantic, but thats the unemotional truth.

May I correct your sentence…

“No lady I know would ADMIT going on a dinner date just to get a free dinner out of it”

“A good dinner date with a man you’re into can be very hot…”

Blah blah blah.

How often do you fuck after a dinner date? Never?

How often do you fuck after hanging at a bar with a guy? Almost always?

Enough said.

P.S. The weasel words in that sentence are fun (“with a man you’re into”). I bet if you’re into him enough dinner isn’t what’s getting him into your panties.

No lady I know would go on a dinner date just to get a free dinner out of it. Most of us would rather stick a dirty needle in our eyeball than be stuck across the table from an unattractive, uninteresting d-bag. The kinds of girls you’re talking about are the shallow, money-grubbing types, and why do you need to go on a date with them anyway? I stand by what I said. A good dinner date with a man you’re into can be very hot, especially if he doesn’t give off the impression that he’s only doing it to get in your pants (as a drinks date almost always implies).

I suppose if you’re really just trying to get laid, you might as well just get a sure-shot random girl liquored up at the bar. But if you want a chance with quality girl you’re gonna have to put in a little more effort.

Laura’s last blog post: Natalie Portman’s Vegan Propaganda.

LOL..hahaha…about the best summary I’ve ever read. Seriously.

Except some guys can get a bit chubby, or tend to be too skinny, with natural daily life, and I think the bodybuilding/ egg eating thing is a way to counteract that.

Dinner dates do absolutely nothing to up a guys chances, any more so than he would have doing anything else with her. Thats a fact. I’ve been charming as hell on dinner dates with women that normally would be pretty easy for me, and they have gone swimmingly, but I get laid much less when a formal date is involved. Dinner dates send the wrong message, and set the girl up to think of things in the long term. Therefore, she has the tendency to go into “lady” mode so as not to appear slutty. Big waste of money and time for me. Drinks are a much, much better date. If women want the long term thing, and the dinner dates that go along with that, they should try inviting guys to dinner first. Then, the guy would feel fine about paying for dinner in the future, because the woman is likely not dating him just to get a dinner out of it (very common). The guy will then calculate that there is much less of a chance that he is “buying” her with dinner, and that he is being used. He can then feel comfortable taking her on formal dates. The whole “panty dropping” thing that girls fantasize about, and that goes along with the “perfect dinner date”, is just a fantasy for girls, mostly idealized in their imaginations, but rarely practiced. And then lack of action is justified by finding faults with the guy, instead of analyzing the fact that the entire setup did very little to create real attraction, and probably even worked against it. They then keep fantasizing that when that “perfect” prince charming comes, to sweep them off of their feet with a romantic dinner, they will give it up after. It happens when attraction is already intense, but not when often when the date is designed to build attraction from scratch. But remember, I’m talking about first encounter/get to know you dates, and this doesn’t necessarily apply to people who have known each other or have been dating a while.

Don Juan:

I get what your saying. And I believe that your “game” is what you say that it is. But you left a lot out. I know. Women just don’t approach Betas who are waiting to trap them. Thats because betas most often go without in this country and that is every single betas lame strategy. And they don’t get laid, especially a lot, and usually only by the occasional lucky occurrence. A lot of what you said is good, like being the “prey”, but to do that in a way that is effective is a lot different than what you let on, and a lot different then the way betas practice it. Its actually a very alpha behavior when done right. Its not about being truly passive, but letting a girl no that you would dominate her sexually, but that you dont give a shit if that ever happens or not. You dont chase it, but you dont try and pretend that you are there for any other reason either, like to be her “friend”. Remember, not all Alphas are loud frat guys. Alphas can be anyone, and the best alpha game is when they are the prey, and make girls chase them. They will if they see you as a sexual threat and option, but one who also is cool enough not to be needy and one who is not actively chasing them.

No need to dis Roosh. I think a lot of what you do was self taught, which is great, but if you read deeper into a lot of what is said in the forums, in the comment sections, and in the articles you will find that a lot of it isn’t what you think from your superficial assessment. A lot of it has to do with the Alpha type “prey” game mentioned, although everyones game here is different. Roosh isnt Neil Strauss.

“You have to be a Zen master (and hyper aware of your behavior), or just be getting sex from a lot of different places(the real solution), not to succumb to it.

Otherwise, the only girls that you probably wont seem needy to are the ones that you actually donâ��t like very much. And it isnâ��t very fun to be with them after a while, as your always wishing that you could be with a girl that you actually liked instead.”

Great comment.

The other thing that helps is straight up not giving a f*ck and having having ice running through your veins.

Like Eazy-E said “Easier said than done”.

- MPM

The G Manifesto’s last blog post: Hollywood Hills Burglar Bunch Arrested.
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It comes down to being able to leave if your principles are compromised. But yea easier said than done.

You can bare your soul to a woman but when she plays some game yea got to be able to move on.

I tend to flip it like a switch. Even when it seems like I am into a woman so much and have some time invested I can still just stop talking to her and move on if she is not giving me the requisite deferrence.

Now if she comes back in submissive posture willing to adapt to you then yea she just passed another test on the rung to your inner circle as being a woman you can reason with.

They greatly decrease your chances of getting action. Not only does all that food impede the absorption of the wine (see number five), but you’re sitting far away from her, unable to touch. Do drink dates instead where you can sit right next to her as that alcohol takes hold
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Naaa dinner dates can be a sensual lead up to a night of sex. Don’t sit apart. Get a booth preferably for comfort of closeness. Eat out of her plate. Let her feed you. Let her lick the shit that fell off your fork onto your lap. Share a drink. Grab her around the neck and squeeze. Play with her hair. Kick back and let her serve you. Order for her. Let the waitstaff be in awe of your man skills that you get an american chick to treat you like a god at the table he he he