7 Signs That A Number Won’t Lead To A Date

Whenever Monday rolls around and I have a few new numbers to play with of girls I met at night, I make a prediction before contacting her whether I’ll get the first date or not. Doing this for several years has allowed me to pick out behaviors a girl does before giving the number that hints towards if another meeting is going to happen.

1. Did she ask for your number or Facebook before you asked first? You’d think it’d be a good sign if she asks for your contact information first, especially early in the interaction, but it’s actually a sign that she doesn’t want to see you again. If she asks you for Facebook, she’s merely building a circle of admirers that will click the Like button when she posts whiny status updates or carefully selected photos. While it’s a good sign when a girl offers you her number at the end of the interaction, it’s not good if she randomly asks for yours.

2. Did she make an attempt to separate from her friends? If your entire conversation was overheard by her friends and she declined your invitation to either dance or join you at the bar to order a drink, she won’t see you again. If you’re dancing with her and she insists on remaining in her friend circle while she gives your cock a half-assed grind, you’re not getting her out. If a girl doesn’t show you her “true self,” which only comes with she’s away from her friends, she was never serious about getting to know you.

3. Did she go out on a limb? She can do this by either resuming the conversation after an awkward pause or trying to seek you out after excusing herself to the bathroom. If the interaction would have ended had you not put 100% of the effort in maintaining it, she’s not going to see you again.

4. Did she tentatively agree to plans? If you got her number without hinting what you want to do with her (e.g. have a drink), you’re much more likely to get strung along in text messaging hell. If you didn’t pre-sell her the idea of hanging out, and she didn’t enthusiastically agree, a meeting is much less likely to occur.

5. Did you both remain in the same venue after the number was exchanged? If you get her number and she merely goes to a different part of the bar, maybe even flirting with other guys, you just had a weak interaction. The number should only be exchanged when absolutely necessary, when the forces of nature will separate you and the only way you’ll ever see her again is if you get her contact information.

6. Did the first break in the conversation come under the 10 minute mark? There are a lot of things in a night venue that can cause a pause in the conversation, like her phone making noises or her friend cockblocking you. If you’re able to maintain a non-interrupted conversation for those first 10 minutes, the chances of seeing her are drastically higher than if your chat is broken up into little chunks.

7. Did you kiss her? There’s a lot of debate over whether kissing a girl increases the chance of seeing her again, but let me ask you the following question: if a girl gave her number to ten guys over the weekend, and she was at a similar level of sobriety for each, is she more likely to remember the guys she kissed or didn’t? My experience shows a small but clear edge in getting girls out again that I kissed. If you didn’t at least come close to getting the kiss, the chance you will see her again is less than 10%.

During the day it’s a lot easier to tell if a number will lead to a date or not. Simply multiple the number of personal questions she asks you by the length of conversation in minutes. Anything over 100 means at least a 50% chance of seeing her again, which are great odds. While time is not necessarily a good correlator to seeing a girl again from night approaches, it is during the day.

I’m pretty down on numbers from night approaches. While I get them and will continue to get them, so many girls are willing to fuck the same night that getting one implies failure. As long as you get them because you’ve tried escalating as far as you can, and you don’t become excited over only digits, go ahead and play the numbers game to grind out bangs from regular dating.

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  • http://betatopua.wordpress.com BetaToPUA

    “While I get them and will continue to get them, so many girls are willing to fuck the same night that getting one implies failure”

    I’d agree with this. Numbers taken in a club too often end up as flakes or sexless dates (which waste a lot of time and effort). This comes from guys making the number the goal, rather than trying to fuck her and settling for the number when it just won’t happen that night.

  • http://alphapersona.wordpress.com Alpha

    “While I get them and will continue to get them, so many girls are willing to fuck the same night that getting one implies failure.”

    Fact.

  • Anonymous

    Numbers from night are almost totally worthless… don’t even think about it unless you’ve made it very far with her, such as

    - getting back to her place
    - her letting you play with her boobs while making out with her at the bar
    - bouncing her to another location and having her ask for your number

    Otherwise you’re wasting time

  • Anonymous

    Important distinction: I find kissing definitely helps increase the likelihood of a future date, however too much kissing ends up backfiring because then she ends up having regrets or feeling like a slut the next day and tries to dodge you.

    If I can’t escalate the kissing to make sex happen that same night, I find it better to just kiss a little and then quit while I’m ahead. Long makeout sessions are the kiss of death when they don’t lead to sex the same night.

  • http://www.thegmanifesto.com The G Manifesto

    “While I get them and will continue to get them, so many girls are willing to fuck the same night that getting one implies failure.”

    A lot of this depends on what juncture of the night you are in.

    If it is 8:30pm and you are at the restaurant, the night is young and full of promise, and you have a dope gig to go to later in the night, getting a number is a good result.

    If it is 3:30am you should be going for the swoop.

    - MPM

  • Roosh

    Speaking of Facebook…

    http://www.facebook.com/uncleroosh

    :attentionwhore:

  • http://thesoloist1.wordpress.com/ Solo

    I don’t think getting #’s is a failure. It takes a true “Gamesmen” to be able to turn a girl with low-medium interest, to one that is DTF and wants your scrotum in her mouth. I enjoy the challenge of it, hence I play the game. My game is more geared towards a day2. It’s just my style, allows me to qualify the girl and game accordingly

    I do agree #’s in nightgame are more flakier. This is why I seldom ever go for numbers.
    For me now when I go for numbers its all about the “Vibe”, I don’t know how to explain it but there is a point in the interaction where I know this chick is digging me and I’m fucking money. Sometimes it’s just from the open(How you go in is huge, less is more but with a little flair and a lot of originality) sometimes you gotta “lace” the chick up with some game, show her something different, discuss topics of your interest stuff your doing which you are passionate a bout (Telling a chick how much you bench press is not something interesting, well not to a chick anyway maybe a body builder) even with a High IL, it doesn’t mean shit. Night-game for me is more so for fun, and practice my “Flash game”

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/datassme.jpg/

    (earlier x-mas gift for my nigga Roosh)

    peace

  • JM

    Guy tattoos steaming pile of shit on unknowing gf’s back in retaliation for her cheating…one of the best revenge stories i’ve ever heard

    http://early-onset-of-night.tumblr.com/post/13348728615/tattoo-artist-ryan-fitzgerald-from-dayton-oh-was

  • Mig Mack

    “While I get them and will continue to get them, so many girls are willing to fuck the same night that getting one implies failure. As long as you get them because you’ve tried escalating as far as you can, and you don’t become excited over only digits”

    This is why the show Keys to the VIP was such a joke.

    Success was getting a number… So ridiculous. And some of the guys managed to fail…

  • Anon

    For night, go for the lay. Numbers should only be an option after you’ve tried for the lay but there was some logistical issue that could not be overcome.

    If you don’t get the lay, the chances of seeing her again correlate with how far along she has gone down the road with you towards a lay. Leaving her friends, amount of time she spends with you, kissing, leaving the bar with you, etc.

    For day, your chances of seeing her again are good if she spends a long time with you, which is along the same lines as night pickup.

    Curiously though, I have found that short day pickups do SOMETIMES turn into lays later. But short bar pickups, though, NEVER turn into lays.

    p.s. Roosh,

    When going to a new city, how do you scout out venues? What resources do you use to determine appropriate venues?

  • Giovonny

    I only take advice from guys that have done 1000 approaches and have at least 100 bangs..

  • Falcon

    Good list. It’s this stuff and some other subtle cues – verbal and nonverbal – that tell you whether or not she digs you. You’ll learn to read those with experience. The number itself is more of a logistical entity, after all. Numbers itself don’t mean anything.

  • Bill Dates

    Club —> Caveman. Nothing else.

  • Critic

    Flaky Numbers Mean Go for the Lay or Bust.

    Numbers from bars and clubs today mean nothing. 90% of the numbers most guys get from bars & clubs flake. So why do girls give out their numbers if they have no intention of following up?

    Women are into you in that moment. But when they get home and they’re sober they’re in an entirely different emotional state. So when you text or call them a few days later they don’t respond.

    My experience corroborates with the experience of most guys. Every guy I talk to has faced the same thing. A pocketful of flaky numbers.

    BUT I’m getting numbers. Clearly girls have attraction on some level.

    So what to do with all these numbers? Strike while the iron is hot. Reconnect later the same night.

    Get her digits, text her an hour later with a “where are you?” Since she still associates you with those positive emotions an hour ago, she’s likely to respond. Have a couple more drinks, dance, and take her home.

    Otherwise you won’t see her again.

    Go for the lay or bust.

  • Critic

    Once upon a time getting the phone number meant something. You would call, she’d actually pick up, you’d arrange a date, and she’d actually show up. Older guys can relate to this.

    Girls have become much more flaky. Blame it on the explosion of female-centric communications technology over the past decades

    Anyone whose followed the show Keys to the VIP over the years will note how the game has changed. It’s a Canadian pickup show set in Torontto. The objective was always to get a girl’s number within a certain time constraint – it was supposedly a test of the player’s game.

    In the 1st season (circa 2005, before Facebook and smartphones and before cheap texting was widespread) this was still a challenge. Girls were reluctant to give out their numbers unless the guy had very tight game and she was truly interested.

    By the 3rd season (around 2008) it was clear that girls were simply giving out numbers to guys with minimal game, and it was obvious that 90% of these numbers would flake. Getting a number was no longer a big deal. Girls would rather take the passive approach of screening the guy’s texts and calls rather than deal with the awkwardness of saying “No.”

    It’s likely why a good pickup show stopped airing at this point – getting the number was no longer a big deal and the challenge it once was.
     

  • Critic

    Also in this era of texting girls will give out their number even when not serious just for the attention and vaIldation of receving texts from random dudes blowing up their phones and pumping up their ego. Deceitful bishes.

  • ERock

    I am not interested in going on dates. Who the hell wants to spend money on some chick for merely a chance to get laid? I’d rather go out on the weekends and try for that one night stand, spending no money on a girl, and not have to deal with taking them out. Even if it only works occasionally, and sometimes with broads who barely pass the “boner test” – I still find it more satisfying then spending real time to get myself in.

    Dates are a big risk to my own personal quality time by requiring me to put forth effort conversing with a person who is likely annoying anyway. Many times you take a girl on a date, they start to think the guy is possible relationship material, something that I absolutely do not want.

    When I’m looking to settle down and get married, I’ll go on dates. Generally speaking, fuck dates.

  • Ari

    Had a fellow player tell me yesterday he’s getting crazy game on campus. He’s a decent night gamer too but not quite in my league. However, he’s a genuine fella and when he said day game’s working for him and he’s getting numbers and dates leading to a 8-10% bang rate from campus game, I’ll take up the next challenge for me,day game. Night game requires hardly any work to me at least. Here’s to reading Roosh’s day game!

  • http://www.absoluteability.com Tony D

    I’ve banged loads of girls from night game phone numbers.

    This is a fantastic post.

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  • Gus

    ERock – I completely agree with your point of view. Its the same one I adopted sometime back.

    I tried both day and night game, and at some point I just bored and irritated with the flakes. I also have no enthusiasm in texting a bunch of messages back and forth, and trying to arrage dates.

    Nowadays I just go out on the weekend or the occasional weekday if I get some time. There I just go for the lay or at least push the interaction as far as I can. I find it much more fun this way, than playing a back and forth game on text and phone with a girl who is attention whoring.

    For this reason, I now find most forms of day game really boring. Too much small talk required, have to wait too long before you find the next girl to talk to and a general waste of time unless you are actually doing some work at your day game venue.

    Even if this gets me chicks or slightly lesser quality, I still find this much more fun.

  • baz

    @Gus – “Even if this gets me chicks or slightly lesser quality”
    Where I live (Ireland), I would change this to “significantly lesser quality”
    Dublin by day, whilst not in the same league as many other European cities, still has an impressive range of (mostly tourist) hotties, a good sprinkling of 7s, some 8s, the occasional 9
    Dublin by night however…the hotties are few and far between and often have the b1tch shields up,
    plenty of 4s and 5s, some 6s, but not many above that
    With every passing day, I’m becoming more and more an advocate of day game

  • Roosh

    I wanted to point out that the comments to a post like this would have been completely different five years ago. They would have been more concerned with salvaging flakes instead of “pushing” the interaction as far as it can go. We’re adapting and treating women more according to their low value (one-night stands) instead of girlfriends. It’s a pyrrhic victory since girls are worse than in the past, but a victory nonetheless.

  • Critic

    5 years ago there was no Facebook, no iPhones, texting was expensive, and online dating wasn’t mainstream.

    5 years ago if you got a number from a bar you still had a good shot at a Day 2. That’s no longer true. Flaking is rife and guys are responding commensurately.

    The Game has changed.

    The late 2000s saw a dramatic acceleration in the growth of female-centric communications technology – namely, the explosion of texting, social networking, and online dating. Yet most PUA material was developed in the late 90s/early 2000s, before smartphones and Facebook.

    PUA theory hasn’t kept pace with the evolution of communications technology.

    It’s either lay or bust.

  • Anon

    “Once upon a time getting the phone number meant something. You would call, she’d actually pick up, you’d arrange a date, and she’d actually show up. Older guys can relate to this.

    Girls have become much more flaky. Blame it on the explosion of female-centric communications technology over the past decades”

    @15 & 24,

    Dating & its demise has NOTHING to do with technology. It has to do with female adaptation to SELECTING males.

    In the old days, women were open to dating because their economic outlook was very bad unless they snagged a guy with a stable job. Dating was the method which they could test a guy’s FINANCIAL FITNESS. Many women suppressed their sexual desires and opted for the boring, but economically stable guy.

    Today, women are more educated than most men and make almost as much money as men. When you factor in government welfare, child support, and alimony, women are actually economically better off than men. Therefore, they don’t need to test men’s financial fitness through dating. With poverty out of the way, women are now more free to select men for SEXUAL FITNESS, which was what they really wanted all along.

  • Anon

    “I wanted to point out that the comments to a post like this would have been completely different five years ago. They would have been more concerned with salvaging flakes instead of “pushing” the interaction as far as it can go. We’re adapting and treating women more according to their low value (one-night stands) instead of girlfriends. It’s a pyrrhic victory since girls are worse than in the past, but a victory nonetheless.”

    Women aren’t changing.

    A better explanation is that guys who started 5 years ago were noobies & started off with collecting numbers. It’s the guys that are changing due to their increased experience with women and increased understanding of TRUE female nature.

    There were plenty of guys advocating for same night lays. It’s just that the noobs drowned them out.

  • Critic

    Anon, we’re talking about game today vs. game in 2000, not 1960. Women in the 90s/early 2000s were already outnumbering men in universities, earning as much as men etc.

    The difference lies in technology. Women today have more options and more distractions at their fingertips than ever before. They have guys constantly blowing up their smartphones texting them out. They get their egos stroked constantly on Facebook. They get hounded with hundreds of messages from men on online dating sites. They’re getting constant attention and validation and being pulled in all directions.

    The “go for the SNL” is an adaptation to the flakiness of numbers from girls in bars and clubs today. Guys know from experience that there’s little meaning in numbers given the flakiness of girls today so they “push for the pull.”

    Adapt or wank.

  • Buitre

    IMO .. Pushing the interaction as far as it can go for a “Same Night (Day) Lay” has been the first strategical option 25 years ago and is STILL the same today regardless all the techno devices. Other options than going for the kill right away should only be the considered as plan B … Nothing has changed in that sense.

  • birth

    Just stay around for a while after you got her number. Planning something interesting (tell her about some awesome drink from latin america that only bar XYZ has in the city, helps if you’re latino obviously) will lower risk of flaking a lot. Program your name with some funny nickname into her phone so you’re not just another number. So many ways to keep them from flaking. Just refusing to accept the fact that day 2′s if done right are way more likely to end in a bang and going for only SNL’s is a big mistake.

  • Buitre

    @29 “Just refusing to accept the fact that day 2′s if done right are way more likely to end in a bang and going for only SNL’s is a big mistake.”

    This may be your big mistake doing SNL’s then, and by NO MEANS is more likely to seal in day 2 (I think is BY FAR less likely) … That means having to be reactive to possible future flakes instead of proactively sealing the deal right at the first chance… I get 95% of my lays in the first meeting, remember there may never be a second chance so why take that risk?.. Unless with absolutely necessary exceptions … Tell me, do you think a Tiger (or any predator) waits till tomorrow to ambush that prey?, he has to be quick and adaptable or else starve … Cheers

  • birth

    @30:

    I’ve had my fair share of both. Not saying I don’t push for the SNL, because I def. do but if it doesn’t seem to be happening I rather invest another 5 minutes in solifying the number instead of just giving it up.

    Also noticed that in smaller countries of Eastern Europe (Latvia, for example) SNL’s are super hard to get since her friends will be judging her. Closing rate on day 2′s though there are extremely high if you do logistics right.

  • Anonymous

    Girls full sex

  • http://kennyspuathoughts.wordpress.com/ Socialkenny

    Point 5 is the most crucial here(at least in my pick ups).I tell guys all the time,”do NOT rush for a # close”.If the chat isn’t going decent,do NOT try # closing and bailing in hopes to reconnect.# closing should occur mainly or soley when the chat was almost awesome.

  • Rogerio

    I’ve been reading Roosh off and on for a few years and a bit late to the party on this article. His comments on numbers are dead on. Being older, I can tell you flaking was common even twenty years ago. If you pushed it as far as you can (within reason) every single time you were with a woman, two things seemed to occur. First, she respected your prowess. Second and more importantly, it was a natural filtering process. If they were interested in you sexually, they were not going to be put off by you for trying to close.

    Having said that, I can’t tell you how many times I made out with a girl in a bar or a party only to have her never pick up her phone when I called. Answering machines have been around a long time. Hot girls would almost never pick up. You were left the choice of calling back or leaving a message and hoping she called back. I cannot even remember one chick who ever called me back.

    Of course, I closed on many dates, but it was a lot of work and by no means a sure thing. Sometimes I lost interest because of their personality something that doesn’t seem to matter when pursuing the SNL. The rule though was I stood a better chance the more assertive I was on the date just like in the bar.

  • lester jones

    Great theory but fails in practice. A tiny number of women fuck on first meeting. I’m assuming youre not a 10 with lots of fuckbuddys on speed dial or you wouldnt be here. A women typically needs several meetings to spread her legs. Less longer encounters are as good as many one hour meetings. If you can’t put the time in you won’t get laid by anyone worth shagging.

  • Girl.

    I call BS.

  • stray

    4. Did she tentatively agree to plans? If you got her number without hinting what you want to do with her (e.g. have a drink), you’re much more likely to get strung along in text messaging hell. If you didn’t pre-sell her the idea of hanging out, and she didn’t enthusiastically agree, a meeting is much less likely to occur.
    This one explained A LOT.

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