8 Signs You’re A Game Denialist

1. You follow over a dozen PUAs on the internet. You know the entire product line of each, but you publically claim that all are scam artist liars. When someone posts a pirate link to one of their new 12 DVD sets, you quietly download it.

2. You are obsessed with looks. When a man claims success with women, you attribute 100% of that success to his appearance. In your world view, a good-looking guy who is deaf, blind, and mute would still get laid a lot.

3. You are obsessed with money. You think you need to be rich to get a 7, yet you spend your free time playing video games posting on hate forums instead of increasing the income that you think is so important to sexual success.

4. You offer no solutions. If you do, they’ll either be an abbreviated version of existing game advice or be just flat-out retarded. One prominent game denialist said the secret to getting laid is to take a shower and then go out and completely ignore women (he wasn’t joking). Instead of pursuing a path of self-improvement, you complain endlessly like an elderly woman.

5. Your mother had power over your dad. You’re trained to believe that only women can be empowered, not men. The best thing a guy can do is to accept that he sucks with women and get a 9-5 job to enjoy the occasional Chipotle meal with a side of guacamole.

6. You find it hard to believe that women want to have sex just for the sake of having sex. You think heavenly bodies need to be aligned for a girl to have a one-night stand or put out quickly, that she needs to go through a 100 bullet point checklist just to open her legs. I’ve seen haters who claim that one-night stands “don’t exist” and are “impossible.”

7. You believe in the myth of the good girl. You think that all the girls having sex are sluts. You think that an “honest” girl guards her pussy like a medieval sentry and only puts out for rich and good-looking guys who invest one year doing Compliment and Cuddle groundwork. You think playing the numbers game is “wrong” because it just selects for girls who want to have sex, when the entire point of game is to have sex with girls who want to have sex.

8. You have society anxiety disorder. The amount of unresolved fear has built up in you for so long that it is no longer curable by modern psychiatry. Therefore, you’re most likely a 20-something virgin. The world is a dangerous place, and those who have successfully met that danger head-on are obviously con artists or liars.

Sadly, if all game denialists died right now, neither men or women would mourn them. They provide value for neither.

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Related Posts For You

  • http://glpiggy.net Chuck Rudd

    9. You claim that having sex with hookers is just as good as having sex with non-hookers.

  • http://www.TheSolomonPress.com Samuel

    the difference between fear and faith….

    living in fear is no life at all…

  • http://www.bronanthebarbarian.com Bronan the Barbarian!

    You’ve actually heard someone claim that one night stands don’t exist? That’s the Nobel Prize of game denialism.

  • samseau

    10. Your name is Alek Novy.

    11. Claim sales and marketing techniques are any different from game techniques.

  • tp

    And really, why do you give a shit?

    The more denialists, the more bounty.

  • ab

    9. You eschew marriage because you don’t think a man with game can keep his wife happy.

  • http://kennyspuathoughts.wordpress.com/ Socialkenny

    Lmao the first point said it all.I credit that to the hypocrites who shit on the community yet still are heavily involved and pirating products.If onenis criticizing the community and calling all gurus scam-artists:them GTFO of the pick-up community an go wallow in some AFC’ish site where one can learn to be a wuss.

  • Anonymous

    The same guy who complains that “looks only matter” is the same guy that refuses to hit the gym or wear a suit.

    Thanks for calling them out.

  • Anonymous

    You can’t really deny Game – It’s impossible.
    Once you’ve taken the red pill, there’s really no turning back.

  • Mr.GM

    Brilliant.

  • Theodora

    On an unrelated note: I can’t wait to watch Shame.

  • V V

    “occasional chipotle meal with a side of guacamole” lol so true for some dudes out there. you are too funny!

  • http://www.thegmanifesto.com The G Manifesto

    “9-5 job to enjoy the occasional Chipotle meal with a side of guacamole.”

    Yeah, you should at least be eating at authentic taco shops.

    No rice in burritos. No guac on the side crap.

    Straight up Carne Asada, salsa and guac in the burrito.

    - MPM

  • denialist

    dunno, Roosh.. Big fan, but you can turn your point 6 into “you’re, well, socially awkward, if you think you need some gay-ass shit like “The Cube” to get laid. It’s more like you said yourself before, “be interesting, be cool”. And as another guy put it, “learn the basics, leave the community”

  • http://thesoloist1.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/sluts/ Dark Sith

    This whole post applies perfectly to the faggots of “Pua Hate”, who call every guru a scammer yet they know the methods and such better then anyone. They offer no solutions (besides going to the gym)and they’re suspect with the homo pictures and videos they post. Yet all of them claim to be alpha and great with women, when it’s obvious their bitter and failed beta Pua’s who are salty cause they didn’t get the results or wouldn’t put in the work to get the results

  • http://www.themastersoffate.com Invictus III

    I think the problem with most denialists is that they haven’t even put game into practice to see it for themselves. The first time you run game from approach to same night lay and realize that you are in control of the situation, everything changes. There is no denying it after that. Now every time you sit back and watch interactions between people you can’t help but analyze and identify which game concepts are at work. The red pill analogy is the best I’ve heard so far.
    Corny PUAs with their promises of “Magic Bullets” don’t really help the situation. The concepts are real but it’s just presented in a one size fits all manner that doesn’t really work for socially awkward people. This leads to frustration and denial. Hands on experience and trial and error are the best ways to learn game IMHO.

  • Zorro

    Alek Novy is a professional cocksucker and a moron internet dweeb without a shred of masculine integrity.

    Death to Alek Novy.

  • Rudiger

    10. You claim that game only works on “sluts.”

  • dickbutt

    game works and those at puahate are a bunch of aspie gremlins, but don’t fucking deny that there isn’t a shitload of lies and charlatanism in this industry/art/field/whatever

    [Roosh: Just because there are charlatans in a field doesn't mean that entire field is bunk.]

  • Jerome

    Good post. I am dealing with a friend who has never had a girlfriend and who is 26 a lawyer, works out 6x a week, never gets laid, is 6 ft tall, and has read the Game and mystery books.

    Though it is true the advice mystery is crappy. They do give denialist one good advice self improvement and approaching.

    But he believes looks and money matters. So I gave up on him, which is the best thing to do. He doesn’t want it bad enough similar to the american dream.

  • krv

    Game is sorta BS because the take-aways fit on a single spaced page, yet people keep spilling ink. The first third of the page is actually just “APPROACH” written in 100pt font. The spilled ink is generally entertaining, though, so people keep lapping it up.

    Also, fair enough to call guys out for *obsessing* over looks and career (“money” is not the right term; chicks are looking for career and status), but they’re really, really important.

  • deepcov3r

    Why do the cruder guys have this obsession with labelling stuff they don’t like “gat” homo” faggot” etc. Gay people can’t really choose to be gay as far as I can tell, so to say it like it’s something bad just makes no sense.

    You are bright enough to use a computer and use the internet, you could add a few words to your vocabulariy like “flamboyant”, or tasteless– I don’t know exactly what you’re talking about because everything you don’t like from your little caveman world is “gay” etc.

  • http://kennyspuathoughts.wordpress.com/ Socialkenny

    @Dark Sith-Lol I totally agree with you.PUA Hate seem to know every method of pick up yet they criticize every guru around.

  • http://flyfreshandyoung.wordpress.com flyfreshandyoung

    9. You think game is a con because all it is “learning to be social”

    You can be the most social person on the planet but if you have pedestalization issues, don’t know how to escalate, don’t know when or how to close, then all the sociability in the world isn’t goin to help you.

    I swear the “learning to be social” hater point is the most oft repeated mantra of denialists.

  • http://www.inmalafide.com/ Ferdinand Bardamu

    Let the flame wars begin!

  • CH

    “You can be the most social person on the planet but if you have pedestalization issues, don’t know how to escalate, don’t know when or how to close, then all the sociability in the world isn’t goin to help you.”

    true. some of the most sociable guys are also the biggest clowns and entertainment monkeys. they get the girls laughing along and then… nothing to show for it.

  • denialist

    #21 – exactly. Approach, status, attitude, few tried jokes/”routines”/negs up your sleeve, that’s it.

    #24 – what’s a bigger pedestalization issue than thinking you gotta have books worth of tricks and schemes to fuck women?

    Roosh, on impossible one night stands, isn’t that exactly the view of “mainstream” community? Like you need 4 hours of “comfort”, go through stages etc, and if you get laid otherwise – it’s “fools mate”. lolz. Seriously, part of the reason I read you is because Bang doesn’t have any of that crap, but practical advice instead.

    #22 – that’s flamboyant =)

  • Game Denialist #821

    How did your dad manage to get your mom pregnant without “game”?

  • beta_plus

    On money:

    You don’t need to be rich, but you do need enough to:
    1) provide privacy
    2) provide said privacy in a convenient location to girls
    3) easy access to 24 hour transportation (usually but not always a car)
    4) a good wardrobe (this is a fraction of the previous 3)

    The cost of this varies widely from region to region. In NYC, it’s brutally expensive. In other parts of the country, it is realistically affordable.

  • Zorro

    …probably you’re also as silly as some girls who claims that staying slim, keeping your hair long, using a little makeup, lipstick and perfume makes no difference to guys. All that beauty shop stuff…it’s just a myth to bilk women out of their $$$.

    Game doesn’t exist? Yeah, and Bigfoot does.

  • Retrenched

    9. You claim to be against misandry, but spend 95% of your online efforts attacking Roissy and Roosh while mostly ignoring Amanda Marcotte, the Jezebelers and false rape accusers.

  • http://xsplat.wordpress.com xsplat

    What’s at least as irksome as game denialism to me is denialism of non-game aspects of attraction.

    It’s reasonable to assert that you can have success with women without height, status, money, good looks, social capitol, leadership ability, and control over your environment, however the nothing except game exists denialists go much further, and say that none of these other attractive traits matters at all and that it has no value at all, and that such traits are not actually even attractive in and of themselves.

    It is then when confidence becomes a religion, and the true believers self entardate.

  • Phoenix

    I don’t deny game one bit. I’ve been beat countless times by other guys who used it.

    But don’t looks and money contribute to game? If you feel like a sexy bitch, and you got excess loot to spend, doesn’t that bring your confidence up enough to tease the shit out of every girl you encounter?

  • anon

    Book sales down?

  • Anonymous

    Roosh..I’m not going to knock your hustle but U usually respect everyones opinion. Like an earlier poster said..doesnt some dude in denial help you score?? not that you nedd the help..this is much like someone saying religion this, religion that..dont argue with me or you are in denial!! We all can make up our minds.. Game is not eveything. Looks, Status, Money do count, it a value game fellas.

  • http://xsplat.wordpress.com xsplat

    “But don’t looks and money contribute to game? If you feel like a sexy bitch, and you got excess loot to spend, doesn’t that bring your confidence up enough to tease the shit out of every girl you encounter?”

    The reason looks and money bring up confidence is because of the positive re-enforcement we receive from women for looks and money.

    The reason we get positive re-enforcement from women for looks and money is because women actually find such attributes attractive.

    This should be a no brainer, but instead some people ONLY allow themselves to legitimatize confidence, as the only truly existing valid attraction trigger.

  • JP

    @ deepcov3r

    Its called freedom of speech. All these lefty faggots talk about empowerment and can’t wait to grope each other in public on a giant flamingo float during a gay pride parade, but the minute some supposed right wing mouth breather thayss thomething offenthive, their intelligence has to be attacked and they have to be reminded what the right way to speak is?

    Gimme a fucking break. The last time I checked every homo’s parents were “breeders”(is that supposed to be offensive to normal people?).

    @Zorro

    He also thinks that bmi is the end all be all for measuring someone’s health.

    Game denialist can be easily separated into two categories, those who enjoy receiving head from men, and those who enjoy giving men head.

    Audi 5000

  • Ataturk

    Name me a field that *doesn’t* have charlatans….

  • Orson

    9. You claim to be against misandry, but spend 95% of your online efforts attacking Roissy and Roosh while mostly ignoring Amanda Marcotte, the Jezebelers and false rape accusers.

    *cough* AlekNovy *cough*

  • Mage

    I never knew that a virtual person whom I know purely from internet could induce in me such strong feelings of disgust and repulsion, before I stumbled on aleknovy. I see him as the absolute worst case in humanity, someone who has taken the red pill, but still wants to live by the blue pill, damn he is even more hateable than Cipher in the Matrix. I hate him more than the bully from my childhood, merely because of the twisted desinformation he persitently pukes in the net using just about every technique of a dishonest argument and faked sophist logic there is. Never could have thought it can be possible.

  • http://thealphapersona.com Alpha

    I had a guy, after reading my blog, say, “This Alpha Persona appears to be a part of the ‘PUA’ community, where they believe having no less than 11 women on hand at a time will make you happy.”

    I mean.. I just have to ask, do you not enjoy the prospect of having eleven different women at your beck and call?

    Seriously, who would not enjoy that?

    Also, I’m slightly offended that I’m only “just another PUA” blog, considering I talk about other things too lol

  • Nick S

    Alek Novy is a funny guy. On his website he claims that Game is really about pandering to women, while also claiming that Game doesn’t work (gee, spot the contradiction in those beliefs). Among other things, he claims that it is a Game myth that women fall for jerks and suggests that men are better off simply learning more mainstream and conventional flirting techniques.

    So according to Alek, Gamers are a bunch of obnoxious jerks who turn women off. But at the same time they are also a bunch of pathetic little female supplicating panderers. Good to know!

    Novy is truly the master of sophistry and pseudo-intellectual bullshit.

  • anon

    “Alek Novy is a funny guy. On his website he claims that Game is really about pandering to women, while also claiming that Game doesn’t work (gee, spot the contradiction in those beliefs). ”

    Not really.

    Game is pandering to women

    Pandering to women doesn’t work

    ergo

    Game doesn’t work

    Really now I would have thought a bunch of aspies would at least be able to figure logic out. I mean your idol Mr.Spock is all about that logic shit. The poster over your bed is very displeased.

  • Snoeperd

    lol, theyre developing a video games to help girls resist sex…
    http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/orange_news/072610ucf-developing-virtual-game-about-sex

  • Little Alek

    Anon Says:
    >Game is pandering to women
    >Pandering to women doesn’t work
    >ergo
    >Game doesn’t work
    Nick S Says:

    > On his website he claims that Game is
    >really about pandering to women, while
    >also claiming that Game doesn’t work

    1) I’ve never said that game doesn’t work. What I (and most of the 8000 non-gamers) say is that it doesn’t work over *placebo*.

    In other words, if you approach a 100 chicks with game, and 100 without game (and you escalate without fear and with confidence) you will get the same number for chicks.

    i.e. – It’s a numbers game.

    Diet Analogy: A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. Game methods are like fad diets – they trick you into *confidently escalating* the same way diets trick you into eating less cals. You get the results because of the confident escalations, not any magical ethereal “game”.

    2) Of course pandering to women “works”. Most guys in relationships got them by pandering.

    3) Whether you pander or not, you get the same results, so you might as well not pander…

    4) I’ve praised roosh quite a few times and I’ve said he’s actually evolving away from game without even knowing it. His stuff in the past 12 months sounds a lot more like anti-game than game. He doesn’t take shit from chicks, he does numbers game, he has standards, he won’t put up with shit tests etc..

    -> I wrote a post called “Roosh is Evolving”

    -> Some guy on an anti-game blog just posted a comment where he linked to here, saying “man, roosh is soo anti-game, but he doesn’t even know it, he’s more like us than he is like gamers”.

    Most gamers evolve out of game over years. Usually takes 3-8 years… It’s slower for people who do it for a living, coz their identity is tied into it.

  • CC

    I’ve never denied it, I’ve just had too much anxiety to ever apply it to myself.

  • Orson

    What is funny is that this AlekNovy loser actually claims to have ‘run a game business for years’ while Ferdinand Bardamu outed him as someone who went to Ukraine and got nothing, and now hates Game.

  • Orson

    TwatNovy said :

    His stuff in the past 12 months sounds a lot more like anti-game than game.

    Oh, so your definition of Game is itself wrong, so that you can take the parts of Game that work, and call them ‘anti-Game’.

    Hey! Don’t eat apples! Eat fruit instead!

  • http://www.TheSolomonPress.com Samuel

    Alex, that is some of the dumbest shit I have ever heard. Game is not pandering… game is specifically avoiding pandering.

  • Orson

    Samuel,

    So it seems that AlekNovy thinks :

    Bad Game is ‘Game’
    Good Game is ‘Anti-Game’ (and that HE came up with it and should take credit for it, even though these are things well-known on alt.seduction even 12 years ago)

    So he never quite understood what Game is, and certainly has never gotten a woman.

    What a loser of extreme dumbshititude.

  • Roosh

    Little Alek is a perfect example of number 4. He has dedicated his life (quite literally) to bashing game and some manosphere bloggers, yet his “solutions” have not helped men get laid. Not one! This is why all the people that listen to him seem to be older denialist men who run in the MRA circles.

  • Orson

    AlekNovy is the same guy as GeorgeC, who used to be pro-Roosh, but went to Ukraine and couldn’t get laid, and now is anti-Game.

    Ferdinand Bardamu found this out.

    [Roosh: I don't think they are the same guy.]

  • Nick S

    Once again, Alek resorts to silly semantic word games and tricks of definition to try to confuse the issues.

    “1) I’ve never said that game doesn’t work. What I (and most of the 8000 non-gamers) say is that it doesn’t work over *placebo*.”

    In other words, you claim that Game doesn’t yield better results than the alternatives. Another way of saying Game doesn’t work. Of course, if you define “what works” as “may work on some people”, then everything “works” and your definition is pointless.

    “In other words, if you approach a 100 chicks with game, and 100 without game (and you escalate without fear and with confidence) you will get the same number for chicks.”

    So, you are conducting an experiment to measure the results of Game versus Non-Game. But you then distort the results by taking a Game concept (confidence) and applying it to the non-Game control group as well. Just cherry-pick Game concepts that work, claim then as non-Game, then claim Game doesn’t yield better results!

    You never address the main issue. There is an obvious tension between criticizing Gamers for catering to women, while also claiming Game doesn’t yield good results (if I may phrase the issue somewhat differently to get around your silly word games). Moreover, there is an obvious hypocrisy here in that if Game is bad because it encourages men to cater to women’s desires, the same criticism could be leveled at all the methods you insist work better (such as mainstream flirting techniques).

  • Orson

    Roissy has a ’16 Commandments’ and Roosh has a ’9 Laws of Pickup’, which summarize the basic fundamentals of Game.

    If AlekNovy had the slightest clue of what he was talking about, he would make a similar, BRIEF summary of what he things are the core fundamentals of what brings success with women.

    He cannot do that. That 50 people have told him he has no clue, and this does not give him pause, also reveals an extreme lack of social awareness and introspection. For years and years, he just does “la la la I can’t hear you”.

    It is impossible for such a person to do well with women, and his writing exudes the exact opposite of the ‘vibe’ that Roosh says is essential. He radiates ‘anti-vibe’ if you will.

  • Not-buying-your-shit

    @ the guy who said:
    “9. You claim that having sex with hookers is just as good as having sex with non-hookers.”

    Actually sex with hookers is not as good as sex with non hookers, it’s actually way BETTER! You couldnt pay me to game anymore, but it’s the gamers who are the bottom feeders who date the average worthless female that keeps the man tax at bay.

  • Krakus

    51 Roosh
    3 hours, 55 minutes ago
    Little Alek is a perfect example of number 4. He has dedicated his life (quite literally) to bashing game and some manosphere bloggers, yet his “solutions” have not helped men get laid. Not one! This is why all the people that listen to him seem to be older denialist men who run in the MRA circles.

    1. Roosh, do realize that this is the same guy who bashes people without mercy regarding masculine self-improvement and is a huge proponent of AVFM, which more or less enables beta-tude under the circle jerking of a misogynistic old man? Everyone, just ignore the fool. He deserves just desserts, rather than any attention at all. Game isn’t meant to be something that “someone” thought up, it’s supposed to be transcended into an idea that everyone uses and improves upon to the benefit of all who accept its bases in psychology and biology.

    2. I agree with the above poster in regards to your usual liberal take on other’s opinions. Although anger may swell from seeing idiots circle their inferiority over your website, you can’t feed the trolls. It enables them to keep going, as apparently they eventually get to your head as is shown by this post. Why bother with feminist and mangina thought? I say neglect it and keep preaching the words of self improvement and methodical approach.

    3. After years of reading up on seduction technique, I’ve come to realize that this is some other level shit. Some people may be way behind (I sure was for the last 3 years or so), and it’s starting to make a lot of sense now. For anyone who thinks that “game” doesn’t work needs to develop and accept an absolutist attitude that clearly sees what’s going on, rather than dwelling into hypothetical situations that your own hamster can spin up. Read up on basic psychology and tried/true ways of how humans work. It’ll make you a far more confident person. (None of that pseudo science shit though, you need something that has gone through pure scientific scrutiny, lacking PC or religious over tones.)

    Anyways, Roosh, good work on previous writings, I’ve been reading for about ~1.5 years now. I would highly suggest that you start writing more optimistically again as you have in the past, and swat your detractors out of the way before their abyss swallows you (feminists/PC worshippers/false religious fanatics/the media.) Good luck.

  • Nick S

    “Game is pandering to women
    Pandering to women doesn’t work
    ergo Game doesn’t work” – Anon43

    If by pandering to women, one means giving in to women’s vocal demands, supporting faux gender equality ideology, pedestalizing women, etc. etc. then no, this does not work. But I don’t think anyone is suggesting that is what Game is about.

    It could be said that Game is still pandering to women, inasmuch as Game is largely about appealing to women’s hidden desires for a dominant male etc. But this is a pretty lame critique. So long as men have sexual needs that only women can fulfill, there will always be some need to get through to women one way or another.

    My point is that there is an obvious tension between claiming that Game is not effective, and claiming Game is really about catering to women. If Game is not effective in appealing to women, how can it be pandering to them?

  • Nick S

    Orson, that is spot on. Novy comes across as being almost a stereotypical nerdy/aspie guy, someone who believes they have academic/scholarly credentials but who really has little idea of how the real world works. No real street smarts. His whole vibe just reeks of this approach that will get you nowhere with women. He has no self-awareness of what is obvious to everyone else.

    Game-denialists prefer to nurse their hurt feelings in the comforting lies that Game doesn’t really work and that Game proponents are just a bunch of deluded jerks who are not nearly as successful as they claim. It is so much easier than confronting the ugly truth about how much we have all been misled about the true nature of women, female sexuality and the like.

    It kind of reminds me of how bitter feminists comfort themselves by pretending that all their problems are due to societal discrimination and that men are secretly lusting after obese cougars. It is so much easier than confronting the ugly reality that they simply cannot succeed in life because they have little of value to offer in either the sexual marketplace, the career market etc.

  • Pingback: Roosh Takes On Anti-Gamers « Sober Down Under

  • http://thecaptainpower.blogspot.com The Captain Power

    Roosh I believe in GAME and LOOKS. When I am in real good shape over the summer I dont even really have to talk, my looks blow them away. Work out gentlemen!!!!

    http://thecaptainpower.blogspot.com/2012/02/your-grandfather-was-insane.html

  • ken

    I lived in the Philippines for two years. At first I paid for pussy, but my goal was to get free pussy. I gradually worked the price down. I once got a blow job for a Susan B. Anthony dollar. Eventually I got free pussy. The girls liked me and made dates to meet me after they got off at the bars where they worked. Some of them were movie-star beautiful and having sex with a lot of women builds a man’s confidence and makes him more attractive to women. It’s like compound interest. It builds on itself.

  • http://www.inmalafide.com Ferdinand Bardamu

    @52 Orson:

    AlekNovy is the same guy as GeorgeC, who used to be pro-Roosh, but went to Ukraine and couldn’t get laid, and now is anti-Game.

    Ferdinand Bardamu found this out.

    Wrong – Georgec and Novy are two different people. Georgec is the guy who used to post on Roosh’s forum, and the guy who sockpuppets under different handles all the time on game blogs. I don’t know who AlekNovy is, but he’s not GeorgeC, I know that for certain.

    In any event, the whole AlekNovy lynch mob thing is getting tiresome. He’s an irrelevant bullshitter, people. Ignore him. Don’t link to him, don’t talk about him, don’t even think about him.

  • JP

    A yes, right on cue someone comes out of the woodwork to defend hooker fucking.

    Interesting observation I’ve made, the people who screech loudest about how much they enjoy hookers also bellow about how much non-hookers suck.

    Yet men who have become successful with game don’t feel the need to remind everyone about how much they enjoy fucking regular girls and how much they hate hookers.

    If you want to fuck hookers, go ahead. But don’t do it out some notion that you are somehow getting one over all the non-johns and regular gals by hate fucking some streetwalker because you couldn’t bed some other chick. This attitude is just as bad as the notion that these hookers actually like you, or would fuck you under regular circumstances.

  • sadasdas

    This is the proper sound and attitude of a feminine woman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyASvWlpzbg

  • http://zarzuelazen.com/wordpress/ zarzuelazen

    Fair points Roosh, but on the other hand, the game skeptics make some good points too.

    The basic premise of game that there are some behaviours that women find more attractive than others seems reasonable enough (basic common sense even), but there are grounds for thinking that its over-blown.

    Assanova for instance, grew skeptical of game when he tried many different approaches and found that his behaviour (whether he acted ‘beta’, aggresive, funny, quiet etc) wasn’t making as much difference as he thought it would – he was still getting women whether he acted ‘beta’ or ‘alpha’. Aaron Sleazy and others also have provided grounds for some skepticism.

    Much of it does seem just to be a numbers game. Even the top PUAs say they can’t get more than 10% of women they approach tops, so that means that 90% of what happens is basically outside of your control and has nothing much to with ‘game’.

    I prefer to see as many different viewpoints and experiences as possible before leaping to definitive conclusions about ‘game’.

  • The Glee Manifesto

    Denial is not just a river…

  • doclove

    Comments by beta_plus and especially xsplat on numbers 29, 32 and 36 were excellent. Neither denied GAME as being important because it is important. However, it is only one of several qualities which attract women to men. When you are a poor student you may not think so. As a man in his mid forties, let me explain this to you. When women are considering older men, they start looking more at your control over your environment, control over yourself, money, status, social capitol and leadership ability than your GAME, height and looks. It’s true that older women look at these things more than younger women. However, younger women look at control over your environment, control over yourself, money, status, social capitol and leadership ability this when you are an older man. Game, Height and looks matter more when you are younger. Control over your environment and social capitol remain the same or are needed more as you age.. Control over yourself, money and status matter more when you are older.

  • doclove

    Let me add to my post number 67 above in that as an older man you need more GAME to get younger women but the same or less GAME to get older women.

  • http://rationalist2012.blogspot.com The Rationalist

    Can someone be a game denialist if they agree with the principles and truth of game but believe that it leads to civilizational decline (by beta men no longer willing to work 9-5 for a stable family). Also, game penetration will eventually result in disturbing ideas about evolutionary psychology coming to the fore, and our society not being prepared for it?

    http://rationalist2012.blogspot.com/2012/01/can-truth-be-good-and-evil.html

  • http://kennyspuathoughts.wordpress.com/ Socialkenny

    I know Roosh aka muhammadV had his “jihad on fat women”.How about a jihad on Valentine’s day lol.Let’s get the ball rolling guys:http://kennyspuathoughts.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/the-occupy-valentines-day-movement/

  • smiley

    Roosh, what is your opinion on game vs. looks, as in, which is better at attracting women? It is, of course, best to have both, but most men don’t.

  • smiley

    In Bang, you mention that a good-looking guy would likely have to approach less than the PUA to get laid, indicating that you, contrary to most PUAs, Roissy included, believe that looks are more important. Or maybe you meant a good-looking guy with game, but I doubt it.

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  • Orson

    Can someone be a game denialist if they agree with the principles and truth of game but believe that it leads to civilizational decline (by beta men no longer willing to work 9-5 for a stable family).

    Yes, because you are shifting the blame onto men running Game (without providing an alternative – see point 4), but still CANNOT hold a woman accountable.

    Game only exists because women made men adapt to feminism.

    I have to add a point 9 to Roosh’s list : ‘Refusal to hold women to the same standards of responsibility/accountability as men’.

  • This is why game is pandering

    Here’s a question to you puas who think you’re not pandering.

    When you’re interacting with a woman, which way do you choose to act?

    1. The way you want to act irrespective of how she feels about you.

    2. The way which you think is most attractive to her.

    THIS IS WHY PEOPLE DISLIKE GAME. Its because you’re giving up your dignity and your identity for a sex act. ALL pua are number 2 unless they are not gaming.

    There are some men – like me – who would never trade their dignity and their identity for anything. Those who do are worthless scum.

  • Nick

    I think game denialism works as a defense mechanism. When I first started reading these blogs and especially after reading Roosh’s book Bang, it hit me that I’ve seen these techniques work for other people and for me several times, and that when I’m attracting girls in my life, it has always been by subconsciously applying these concepts. People realize they need to use these techniques, but then they can’t force themselves to approach, deflect bullshit, etc. Instead of admitting they are having trouble facing their fears (which is completely normal), they write off game altogether and continue living their lives as they did before.

  • Anonymous

    As someone with social anxiety disorder i have to disagree with point 8. I use PUA material to help destroy my unrealistic thoughts and fears not to fuel them. The fears and the emotional drain is beyond what normal men must deal with so don’t be so quick to judge those with mental health issues when you likely have a shallow understanding of them.

  • Anonymous

    @chuckrudd

    I’ll never forget the annoyance & utter hopeless feeling of disbelief as I drove an old roommate to sleep with a hooker. I figured his desire wasn’t serious, until at the motel choosing to allow him follow through with his decision.

    He’s had one girlfriend. She cheated on him with her best friend. He still loves her. That was 4 years ago.

    He’s slept with _ women (to my knowledge according to what he admitted that night), _ of which have been Jane’s. He was crying during the ride back. I told him he had half an hour, and to not waste his money. Once 33 minutes had passed I politely messaged him to come outside, otherwise I’d be gone. 45 minutes had passed and I left. Only to return sympathetically as the sun rose to find him bawling in the parking lot.

    He is a great man, though I found it disturbing that I was OK with allowing him make the choice I knew he’d eventually regret, in having to rationalize said decision.

    Before that night I believed he was more of a man than I’d ever be. Then I realized that having a threesome a week earlier via the un-asked for (and unexpected) invitation to do so by a woman I’d met & spent no longer than an hour with – in summation of how I met her: broke her up with her boyfriend who consequently moved where I told him was best, as it correlated with his desire to follow a certain professional path he wasn’t at the time engaging in & changed her entire direction in life simply by being whatever it is that I am considered to be by those who meet me.

    Anyway, I realized that for every night I even had the consideration of attenuating a hooker or escort was a night I wasn’t able to know that what women I was interacting with were readily available, however some keen notion of patience as developed or established in me since a young age prevented me from following through with such a thought’s action beyond once when I went to a strip club, and ended up hooking up with a stripper, who eventually dated & stole a shitload of money from a wealthy friend, that acted in some videos of mine & his at the time (was a dancer for Lady Gaga on tour and in videos), and denied me even the payment of what one nudie-bar-dance turned into a free private room engagement became…

    I’ll never forget telling her that I was Jesus Christ that day & carried my cross down Sunset Boulevard. It was true, and it was for a reason I’d rather not explain, but ended up successful considering what I was attempting. Crosses actually can be heavy, and being Jesus is surely a bummer when one isn’t dressed like he’s portrayed.

    I just came across the “attraction forums” and there are a shitload of dating-reviews for those who sell “products” in this market.

    It all seems enticing until one realizes that it teaches only that which one already knows: how to get women.

    You just do, there’s no way around it. If you know one you’ll know another & they’ll probably ensure you get to know more. Then sometimes you won’t feel like it, and you won’t know some, and you’ll be glad you don’t have to deal with it. And it goes in cycles.

    No one is better nor worse for having or not having experience with women, however I am of the belief that offering & knowing that one has the choice to act certain ways regardless of ones station in life, that one should make others aware of the same thing – their existing relationship to who they are & what they do & how that is in a reflexive way effecting you, subtly or overtly.

    I have a question for Roosh. How do you make a living? Or, do you make a living selling “dating advice” and such? I haven’t read much of your stuff, so I’m not entirely familiar with who you are. Typically just stick to rationalmale & heartiste for his lolz & both of their brilliant commentator’s. Though I’d like to branch out and find more of you PUA’s with different outlooks, perhaps different lifestyles.

    I am also curious as to whether or not those who blog would be considered young or old, and if they are either/or why exactly they feel the need to blog vs. writing a book to be published vs. publishing their own works vs. not writing at all.

    Or is this simply an age of enlightened writing as normality, where in the sphere of writing not a single person can even be considered lesser or greater than the next, seeing that there exist such a plethora of opinions that all equate to the same meta conceptualization of reality in the end?

    But, seeing as I can hardly lay off the keyboard during times of unnecessary boredom, I can’t say I wouldn’t understand if people simply write these blogs because they can – and why not make money off of it, if it’s true & available, or a lie that causes others beneficial navigator’s life-skills…as presented & suggested, of course.[?]

    It’s difficult to care to write what others consider true when it’s in glorious lies most observably desire to bask.

    So every writer knows that in telling the truth he’s just lying to himself about what she said when he wrote what she didn’t.

    - hesperus’s phosphorus admittance of a poor choice or more’n'one on my part

    Anyway, all of those above and the author, I appreciate your existence in that it gives me time to reflect & ponder on what many curiosities lie beneath or above what’s below.

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  • anonymouse

    The 10% you have in control with game is better than the 0.0001% you have in control WITHOUT game.

  • anonymouse

    What the fuck are you talking about? You make no sense.

  • anonymouse

    Some people just need to internalize maturity rather than externalize techniques.

  • anonymouse

    There are some men like you who don’t mind shitty women and waiting years to get lucky. There are some men like you that don’t want to make the best of themselves and don’t want to give a women a wonderful sexual/relationship experience. Gee, I wonder what kind of man women would prefer?