A Heuristic Model Of Game

Heuristics are empirically based rules that have lasted the test of time, often observed in cultures that have retained traditions. Curious scientists back-analyze them to identify their true purpose. They do not originate in academia and have not been scientifically proven, yet nonetheless do a better job at achieving a desired human end.

For example, to prevent alcoholism, scientists have brought BAC charts and gender differences to suggest how many drinks a day are acceptable. Wine is better, liquor is worse, and so on. Or they serve up a subjective questionnaire and if you answer “yes” to an arbitrary number, you may be an alcoholic. Instead of that scientific approach, it’s easier to just follow a simple British heuristic derived from doctors who personally treat alcoholics: don’t drink three days a week. That’s it. It’s easier to follow and does a better job at predicting alcoholism than methods created by scientists in a laboratory setting.

The problem with game is that there is a surplus of information which often crowds out the most important concepts which contribute the most to success. Can’t it all be simplified in a couple rules? I believe it can, but only for the individual. There is too much variance in game depending on who you are and what type of girl you go for that only through personal experience and a large sample size can you develop your own heuristics.

That said, here is my heuristic model:

1. Only approach a girl that you are prepared to take out on a date. This is a check of my desire. If I wouldn’t want to block out 4 hours for her, based on her appearance alone, I will give up at the slightest resistance she throws my way, leading to wasted time and no sex.

2. Eject on the approach if she doesn’t completely face you. She must be open to an interaction. If she can’t even face me, a very token amount of effort, sleeping with her will be burdensome.

3. On the first date, ramp up touching to hit a peak at the two-hour mark. The content of my chatter matters less than touching, as I’ve learned from cases where there has been a steep language barrier. By two hours, I should be in position to at least attempt a kiss. It doesn’t matter if I do kiss at that point or not, but that my prior touching should have made it a natural and logical occurrence.

4. Always invite her to your apartment (or weasel your way into hers), and do not accept no for an answer. The persistence must be strong here, for her first answer will probably be no. The assumption must be made that you will never see the girl again, so you must at least try to sleep with her the same night.

5. Try to have sex with her once privacy is achieved. Again, the attempt must be made.

For one-night stands, I simply replace rule three with “You are not allowed to get her number.”

It doesn’t matter what country I’m in, what language I’m speaking, or whether I met the girl at the cafe or club—if I follow all my rules, the chance of a bang is quite high. Will these rules work for you? If you’re similar to me, perhaps, but I know that for me it almost doesn’t matter what else I do as long as I follow these rules. I can talk about religion and politics, topics that should generally be avoided, and it would make little difference. I can forget to tell the best stories of my life, and still it wouldn’t matter. For the approach, the girl must be conversationally open. For dates, I must touch and lead to my room. In the space between I can be myself.

While you do have to be careful about developing rules based on limited experience, guys who have a large amount of personal sex data would do themselves a favor by breaking down their prior successes into the mere essentials, then forgetting about everything else.

Read Next: The Approachable Girl Metric

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  • michelin

    mind-blowing game theory. Good job Roosh. I hope your reflections get scientists’ attention some day.

  • http://foreclosurepreventionsuccess.wordpress.com/ C.J.

    What’s the best way to eject from a set? I know it probably doesn’t matter since it’s not going anywhere but how do you usually do it? Just walk away without saying anything further?

  • Kieran

    Rules 3,4, and 5 all apply for me too. It’s useful to see it distilled like this though, I never would have come up with it.

    Regarding rule 2, I actually learned to keep going and not eject early for any reason, as a good percentage of my bangs come from girls that I thought I had no chance with based on initial body language etc.

    And about rule 1, I need to start following this more !

  • geo

    Is there not yet a flow chart? Seems that would be a provide a useful way to learn the fundamentals. e.g. break 10 second rule = to the creepy box; playing the name game (rapport seeking) = to the LJBF box. Might even make a good board game.

  • anon1

    @4

    definition of overthinking it.

    women aren’t programming code.

    actually that is to say they do operate on a set of rules, but its better to learn generally so you can adapt. rules are only a crutch [a hugely useful crutch] until you get confident enough to throw out what isn’t needed and disobey the rest

  • Richard Effstein

    Roosh and players-
    What’s the ball park cost in $usd to game in Poland?

    Which Polish city had the most dtf college aged girls with big tits?

    I tell you guys in the Us 2 places I have seen Unreal tits is Phoenix AZ Tampa FL. If you like brunettes go to Phoenix if blondes go Tampa.

  • Richard Effstein

    What is the cost/day to game in Poland in a University city like Krakow with tons of hot college girls?

    Can I get by on $100/day for a studio food and night club trips? Can it be done cheaper?

  • Anonymous

    Excellent, excellent, excellent!

    You’re absolutely right. The PUAsphere is full of too much information/misinformation based on opinion over field results. Game is not so complex as to fill volumes of books, blogs, and courses to make it seem as if a man is always missing some “secret” formula of success.

    Success is largely dependent of *velocity* of escalation, and is a key component of attraction. Most guys, even PUA’s, are too timid and don’t go for what I call the “first-night stand.” (as opposed to the one-night stand). There is no second-night or third-night stand without the first-night stand. So, why put off the inevitable for a later “date”.

    Girls view less aggressive approach and escalation as not worth getting their tingly-bits engorged. I believe it actually confuses a girl when a guy doesn’t show early intentions to lay her. It confuses her when a man tries to either hide his intentions to bang, or expresses intentions for something over sex (marriage, relationship, etc.) . Delaying the inevitable goes against her primordial mind’s programming and can actually cause her to lose attraction. I can’t imagine a male lion approaching a new lioness with anything less than the intention to bite the scruff of her neck, pin her to the ground, and mount her from behind. The lioness expects nothing less.

    My goal is to bang a girl more than once to make satisfy my game ROI metric. A one-night stand (e.g. only one bang) is a low ROI. So, your heuristic of “only approach a girl that you are prepared to take out on a date” is a good measure of my willingness to invest in a girl, with expectations of multiple bangs in return.

    I’m also really on-board with #2. Not only is a girl facing me a signal of interest, but also one of respect. I’M THE MAN G-DAMMIT! And if she’s not responding to that simple fact, I’m not going to waste my time on her. For every girl that plays hard-to-get, there are plenty who don’t. Those girls increases my bang ROI. I’m about maximum results for minimum effort, not maximum effort.

    Well done. Keep ‘em coming.

    [Roosh: "velocity of escalation"... I may have to steal that phrase.]

  • samseau

    Yep. I have my own heuristic model for dance approaches and it’s not too dissimilar from yours.

    1. She must be able to follow my lead well, and enjoy my lead.

    2. The more shy she is and more restrained she is the better chances she is relationship material.

    3. She must accept my invitation to drinks that night or give a credible counter-offer.

    4. Go for the bang right after the drinks.

    My #1 rule and your #2 rule match each other almost perfectly in spirit.

  • seth

    Game is mostly not fucking up.

    The emergence of the PUA acknowledges problems in our Western society, but game is not a long term solution. It is merely reactionary. Women will choose the man who best represents what the society regards as socially normative. Since this is dictated by the media, it become survival of the socially normative, not survival of the fittest. The problem is, most socially normative men are useless, so women’s choices will destroy themselves.

    Game will be overrated in future.

  • Jd

    Seth your right.

    The continual brain washing is everyone’s problem.

    If it were survival of the fittest the mercenary outlaws would have it all. When I hear this alpha beta shit I think what would be more alpha than grabbing people and club ing them if we are all evolved from apes (I think that’s bs) then why can’t the meanest monkeys have it all? If there were validity to it they would.

    Anyone ever consider being gamma- you dot want to f over people and choose to select and behave wisely to care about yourself and ithers but can bring total hell anyone who crosses you wrongfully?

    I think women are a lot of he problem. For one men wouldn’t be so fx up if hey didn’t have moms who were conned by pop psychology commie illuminati bull shit thus making he daughters fickle whores with twilight dvds and frappicinos and the sons inept knuckle deaggers with beer pong and x box.

    We’ve all been fucked by internation trust fund baby con men who use politics To runnour financial systems/ It’s that sime to non sheep who see.

  • Joe Dick

    excellent, practical and no-bullshit advice.

  • gunslingergregi

    was reading minter stuff today
    the real problem isen’t even the engaged shit it was he was telling people to ignore the laws lol and freaking claim sovereign status or some shit whatever he said
    so yea so lied about income and that shit
    so yea the marriage proposal ok yea weird but the other shit worse

  • Anonymous

    @10:

    Ahh, it’s Seth Datta, Game Denialistâ„¢ , ladies and gentlemen.

    The guy who thinks that because he’s seen a few young girls in London who have the hots for unemployed Muslims (with dark triad personalities and who don’t work but take welfare checks to party instead) –> Game doesn’t work.

  • Anonymous

    Everything here is right on. My own experiences match these rules.

  • Joe Dick

    when I hear that american fat women think they are ‘desired’ (puke), I didn’t imagine it was THAT bad

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghrDIQ-K8mg&feature=share

  • Joe Dick

    and by the way, if anyone ever feels ‘weird’ for approaching a woman you don’t know, watch the above video

  • Hov

    Roosh,

    Not a member of your forum so I wanted to comment here about your topic about being part Armenian. Some forums members talked about Armenian girls, and since I’m Armenian I’ll tell you what I know:

    They tend to be extreme in either femininity or in bitchiness/snark/masculinity. You’ve complained about American girls being entitlement princesses in general, but some Armenian girls can take that to a whole new level. Many of them have parents or grandparents who emigrated to America, with varying success in starting businesses. Armenian families tend to be split into two categories: the immigrants just did what they could to get by, and my peers reflect that down-to-earth vibe and are hard-working; or, the immigrants did very well, and their children are spoiled brats, using their parents’ money to live in nice houses and drive expensive cars.

    There aren’t many “pure” Armenians, but instead a lot of mixed ethnicities. My family is originally from Turkey, and moved to Lebanon after the genocide. The most common mixes are in no particular order: Lebanese, Syrian, Turkish, Iraqi, Iranian, and Russian.

    Like I said above, a good number of Armenian girls tend to share entitled-princess mentalities that is actually pretty common among Middle Eastern girls. Physically they can be very attractive, but sometimes also quite ugly. A lot of them may live with their parents well into their 20′s or even up until they get married, because Armenians are a very kin-centric group (again like other Middle Eastern ethnicities). However, this strong tie to family doesn’t lead to femininity like you describe in Eastern European girls. Instead, it leads to the girls constantly being in the center of attention, and inheriting their mothers/aunts habit for drama and gossip. The older crowd of Armenian women LOVE LOVE LOVE to gossip and cause drama, which gets passed down to the younger girls. Also, you will see Armenian girls who were very pretty in their teens and twenties blow up like balloons in their thirties or after they get married, although the attitude remains.

    The fact that you speak Russian is good if you ever meet Armenian girls, though. A decent number of them speak Russian, especially if their families are from Armenia itself, unlike my family which like I said has taken on some Lebanese cultural characteristics.

    What you said about your mother speaking Turkish isn’t surprising. My dad’s grandmother, despite being fully Armenian, only knew Turkish because that’s where she grew up.

    The most important thing for this site, though, are the girls. Compared to the average American SWPL girls, Armenian girls are more attractive and more bitchy, and if I ever get married it probably wouldn’t be to an Armenian.

  • seth

    @14

    Game does work, but it is limited nowadays. It seems you have your identity invested in game, which is always a bad idea. When you become older/more broke/needing healthcare and cannot afford it; all the game in the world won’t save you.

    Game is to make guys feel like they earned it. But game IS a byproduct of society, so people get distracted by trying to improve their ability, so real world shit goes by the wayside. Whilst the men of the West become PUA Rockstars, they are getting owned and will get their ass handed to them by Big Daddy Corporate/Banking/Gov’t.

  • Cedric Towerwood

    Hov I’m glad I stumbled onto your comment. I do t whether or not you’re in So Cal but some of the most exotic creatures I’ve ever approached were Armenians in LA. I think I can see now its the Lenanese genes that make them so fly. I think Lebanese people in general are immensely attractive as much as I live pale redheads with big tits.

    Roosh-
    As fine as the Lenanese women are- why not do a
    “Bang Lebanon”
    Beirut is rated as a cheap back packed city- between Prague and Krakow in price.
    I’ve looked at some club websites there and they have pool and ocean side bikini clad Medditerranean foxes all day every day. Same de with Tel Aaviv if you like the blonde hair brown eye hyuing ( I call it the skunk look-I love blue and green eyes with red or blond hair myself but for brunettes who can top a 22 y/o Armenian???).

    Nice post hov but I think I just want to go to Poland. A friendly 7 or 8 with big tits and I’m good.

  • This Isn’t Game

    This heuristic model or “rules” is not game. This is simply stating “find a chick that you want to bang, wants to bang you, and bang them as fast as you can.”

    Not to mention the whole “don’t take no for an answer” bit was sincerely creepy.

    What you are discussing here is more towards “playing” or being a “player.” Which is completely fine, if that’s what you want to do. It’s just not game.

    The dead giveaway? Your 2nd step in your model. If a girl isn’t giving you enough attention, a man with any decent level of game would not walk away, but be able to turn the situation around and seduce her.

    If anyone is interested in game, this is about the completely opposite school of thought.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeSu8h6WFTU nguyenimproved

    @16 sorry but it has to be said: america is indeed the filth of humanity looks and fashion-wise.. in fact i can tell if a white person is not american pretty easily. simply if there is a lack of the urge to vomit when i look at them then they must be european.