When you have approach game, it’s actually harder to meet girls in the way most other guys do, like through social circles or hobbies, than it is to do cold approaches.
This was obvious to me when I came back from my second South American trip and attended a Portuguese meetup in a D.C. coffee shop. I was surprised by the turnout (over 20 people) and how most of them were girls, but only three were cute enough that I’d consider putting my penis inside them. I needed a healthy dose of luck to not only be placed at one of their tables but seated near them as well. Then she had to be single. Then she had to have a pleasant personality to sustain a good conversation (we weren’t drinking alcohol, after all). Then there had to be no other guy who would interrupt my game. Then she had to be attracted to me. The odds of getting just a number in this type of scenario is shockingly low (10% or so), yet it’s the main way average guys try to meet women.
Compare the meetup to a crowded bar, where in the same time period I can do more than five solid approaches with a 10-20% chance of getting a one-night stand—of getting laid! Sure I have to deal with attitude and sharp distractions, but when you have the ability to approach it’s ten times easier than doing a generic meetup with a hobby you’re not exactly passionate about (kickball, for example). I can go anywhere, not know anyone, and use that skill to get laid. So it boggles my mind that guys don’t put in the effort to learn approaching when it allows a direct line to their sex goal.
Approaching allows you to cut out the middle man. You don’t need to maintain a social circle in the hope of meeting a decent girl. You don’t need to do activities with strangers you rather do alone or not at all. You just wipe the smegma off your cock after a day of sitting in front of a laptop then go out to a place where the women are. No prior introduction or shared activity needed. I’m at the point where banging a girl from social means makes me feel lazy, almost like cheating.Tweet Follow @rooshv
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If you’re in college like me you have no option but to do social circle unfortunately….
“So it boggles my mind that guys don’t put in the effort to learn approaching”
I think there are two things going on:
First, for a lot of guys, “social circle” works well enough.
Particularly if all you want is a reasonably attractive girl to be your girlfriend or wife, and as long as you are not stunningly unattractive, it’s not too hard to just bumble through your school years, clumsily ask a girl out now and then, and eventually meet a reasonably attractive girl who is into you. And repeat the process a few times until you find a suitable marriage partner.
Second, cold approaches are scary as hell, especially at first.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I’d throw out there that it does help to have one guy with you sometimes as a home base so you don’t look like the wandering approach guy, but there are ways to hide that as well. The key is that guy has to have game too. If he is just an anchor with no game he will actually hurt you. But yea, the ability to approach definitely cuts out the middle man. No doubt about it. Sold article.
And the ability to approach allows you to have options and choice. Two keys to an alpha life. When you’re working within a social circle your variety is only what’s before you, but when you can approach, you just look and pick. You can just be out and about and see some slamming chick and make a “try” for her. That’s the beauty of game.
Roosh you’re totally right about your odds of having sex being way better through cold approaches and by this point the necessity of game for the North American male is a moot point. That being said, I don’t think one should discount group events like the one your described at that coffee shop. While it is true your odds are longer, either there should have been some mingling time with people standing around where you could make a move or it was the most boring event ever. Furthermore, in my experience you’re more likely to find quality women at group events, or via day approaches than at a club where your odds of sex are high but chances are the girl will be a tramp. Either way, you need game though.
Roosh, I know you don’t like online dating, but it is very much the same concept, allowing persistent men to “eliminate the middleman.” In fact, it does so even more than meeting at bars. While I’m sure your rate is high at bars, you still have to deal with a percentage of girls in relationships, a percentage of girls who are lesbians, a percentage of girls who truly “just want to have a girls’ night tonight” and so on, all of whom won’t be receptive to your advances. Online dating makes the picking up process even more efficient, as girls you message are surely looking for dates and not lesbians. Just food for thought.
Hell yeah for approaching! It’s definitely where your skills are put to test.
Social Circle Game is overrated. When friends start fucking friends, complications ensue.
“Man Rules” of who gets next crack at the prior slice become the prime directive, until marriages of both sexes in the peer group destroy the group cohesion.
Then, all your friends with any social prospects disappear, leaving you amidst the reality of American Life: nobody over 30 has any friends.
Social circle game is game for guys that have no game. You don’t grow your skills, and the likelihood that the girl who comes into the group is fly isn’t too high.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to maintain friendships and all that, it’s healthy to do so in fact, but expecting to nail the girls in your social group…problem starting.
Plus, if you aren’t the smartest/funniest/best-looking/most successful/best game-having guy in the group you might as well learn to approach, because the guy who is all of those things will have leverage over you, and then you have cock-blocking and shit-talking happening.
The group I used to roll with in University, guess why that ended? Some girls came into play, some casual sex and serious dating ensued, intermingled and crossed streams, rumors were started, people got hurt and now that group is split into rival factions that I have absolutely no patience for anymore.
Smegma? Sounds like someone needs to shower more.
Approaching is like outside bet in roulette. Social circle is like inside bet in roulette.
Also, social circle game is riskier since expulsion is possible after a rejection. They might not throw you out, but how much fun can you have when everyones laughing at you for getting turned down?
If you do a good job selecting a girl you can bring her into your social circle on your own terms, but its hard to take a girl out of a social circle.
Its hard to date above your level in social circle game since most social circles have well defined hierarchies, but anything is possible with approach game.
This is great advice.
A woman would advise you to sign up for a night class instead.
No attractive single women in your night class looking to hook up?
Then you’re shit out of luck from day one!
Peter: Don’t get me wrong… definitely attend group events that are part of your hobbies or interest, but don’t do it for the sole reason to meet girls.
Social circle game is about cultivating and maintaining a cool social circle, which is key for all aspects of life. Any girls you lay in that circle are just gravy.
The point isn’t to just get laid to any girl. I could get laid every night if I spent all day approaching.
The point, at least for myself, is to meet quality girls who I have chemistry with and who I’d be glad to have as girlfriends — while at the same time, having enough time to pursue & advance my business and lifestyle goals.
“The point isn’t to just get laid to any girl.”
Did I say it was? Understand that the average guy doesn’t fly into a city in custom suits doing business deals downtown in high-rises while going to the theater, like you’ve mentioned on the forum. Power to you if you meet a girl through that unique method, but most men just need a reliable way to meet women, not to find a dime piece. Approaching offers that.
Roosh gives good advice, and the predictable beta whiners come on here to nitpick.
The average (female) dating advice columnist would suggest that guys sign up for a cooking class or enroll in a dance class to meet women…yeah, that is going to get you laid quick…NOT!!!
Remember, Roosh is giving you advice on how to get laid, and not advice on how to meet your future ex-wife.
“Roosh gives good advice, and the predictable beta whiners come on here to nitpick. ”
Seriously, quit your bitching you beta pussies.
Solid stuff as usual. I always have better luck with a small crew of acquaintances or solo. Social circles tend to be too personal and the drama-fest that inevitably ensues is not worth the headache — unless of course you don’t mind destroying your place in that circle.
At least when you’re solo you can control the pace of everything and get distracted less easily. The downside to both is it’s easy to get unfocused and veer out of the zone — a good wing man can help counter that. Plus, when you go out alone you can be anyone you want for that night (or just that particular approach if you can keep all your stories straight).
Done correctly social circle game can provide you with an almost endless stream of pussy.
As someone mentioned though, if you fuck it up you can pay the price. It’s an all or nothing deal- you are either desirable to most of the women in the group or you are invisible to all of them.
I almost screwed myself with one of my groups last Halloween by getting sloppy and trying to mack too hard on a new chick in group. Luckily the henhouse came to the consensus that I wasn’t a “creeper”, that I had just had a few too many drinks. Gotta be more careful next time.
“Luckily the henhouse came to the consensus that I wasn’t a “creeper”, that I had just had a few too many drinks. Gotta be more careful next time.”
So you keep your dick in a lockbox until you receive permission from other girls to remove it? Great strategy.
This is solid gold.
“So you keep your dick in a lockbox until you receive permission from other girls to remove it? Great strategy.”
That’s not what I said. Not sure why you have such a low tolerance for alternative points of view lately.
I respect and even to an extent admire your lifestyle, but I have neither the time nor the desire to spend hours every week trying to rack up notches. I’ve picked up my share of pussy outside of peer groups but as long as I get enough ass to keep me satisfied just by showing up it doesn’t make much sense for me to deal with the BS that is involved in playing the numbers game.
I realize that you dropped out of the American rat race long ago (which I plan to within the next few years) but for the time being the “auto game” I have built via social status has served me extremely well.
The whole idea that true social status trumps game most of the time rubs the Game is God crew raw. All I can say to that is “Don’t hate the guy with status, hate the game”.
Great post, though as with most wisdom, it will be rejected.
American men are fucking pathetic, and it’s no wonder women don’t want to fuck them. You faygots won’t even approach women, because you’re too fucking timid. Instead, you wait until you have a “safe space” to meet a girl. I’m surprised you don’t just sit at home waiting for your Jewish mommies to set you up with a “nice girl.”
Thankfully you fucks are my “competition.” I’m 34, and getting more girls than ever. No one ever told me that I was not waging a war against my own impending middle age, but instead was waging a war of attrition. I just need to survive while you all die out.
To all you cunt faggots who remain too chickenshit to approach a woman: Thank you.
“Understand that the average guy doesn’t fly into a city in custom suits doing business deals downtown in high-rises while going to the theater.”
you really like quoting wankers lately.
from Kanye West to G Manifesto… from one poseur to another… from bad to worse…
YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE!! I put “smegma” into Google Images to see what the fuck it was… and my Mom was right behind me and freaked!!! She thought I got onto a homo porn site.
Chuck: I’m just trying to point out that your alternate viewpoint is beta. How can anyone not read the following and conclude that you seek approval from your female peers as if they were the boss of your sex drive?
“I almost screwed myself with one of my groups last Halloween by getting sloppy and trying to mack too hard on a new chick in group. Luckily the henhouse came to the consensus that I wasn’t a “creeper”, that I had just had a few too many drinks. Gotta be more careful next time.”
If that’s what it takes to get laid in your social circle, of “almost screwing up” by trying to hit on a girl you like, then I genuinely recommend you work on approaching. You’ll feel more like a man because you can talk to any girl you want without having to endure punishments from the henhouse.
pretty cool site tho… cept the smegma
Read the comments… wow, most of you guys are such whiny beta pussies. Grow some ball$ and go talk to them bitches already! Persian bro is right on this one.
“necessity of game for the North American male is a moot point.” – most homo-yuppie phrasing nomination.
“When friends start fucking friends, complications ensue.” – are you into homo gangbangs or something? coz that’s what “friends fucking friends” sounds like. I fuck chicks, not friends.
“I could get laid every night if I spent all day approaching.” = Bullshit.
“Luckily the henhouse came to the consensus that I wasn’t a “creeper”, that I had just had a few too many drinks. Gotta be more careful next time.” – you only gotta be careful your pussy doesn’t hurt
“To all you cunt faggots who remain too chickenshit to approach a woman: Thank you.” – that bro is solid
Smegma shit is lame
main course: cold approaches
dessert: social circle
Plus, I’ve run into trouble sleeping my way out of a social group. Way easier than approaching, but you can also get yourself in trouble.
“If that’s what it takes to get laid in your social circle, of “almost screwing up” by trying to hit on a girl you like, then I genuinely recommend you work on approaching. You’ll feel more like a man because you can talk to any girl you want without having to endure punishments from the henhouse.”
Just pointing out one of the pitfalls to banging women within your social circles. It’s not a perfect strategy but it gives the best return for your time investment.
I am stuck in the US for the next couple of years and just don’t see the point in expending so much energy on women who fail to satisfy me on so many levels. I’m sure you can relate.
And about the “feeling more like a man” thing- I’ve pulled chicks from outside of my social circles but that pales in comparison to the feeling that comes from banging a chick and then watching her friends fight over who is going to be next in line.
“Did I say it was? Understand that the average guy doesn’t fly into a city in custom suits doing business deals downtown in high-rises while going to the theater, like you’ve mentioned on the forum. Power to you if you meet a girl through that unique method, but most men just need a reliable way to meet women, not to find a dime piece. Approaching offers that.”
Approaching in the course of one’s life vs approaching every weekend in bars/clubs yield different kinds of results, is what I’m saying.
Average guys don’t run business-related/administrative errands during the daytime? Average guys can’t wear a suit (who said anything about custom, wasn’t me)? Average guys don’t go to entertainment venues that have women as the audience?
pull my prick, you fucking losers:
I never said anything bad about approaching girls in clubs- obviously that’s how we all have the best chance of hooking up I’d be retarded to knock it. All I was saying that is that in certain situations (like the the coffee thing Roosh mentioned) you have a lower chance of getting sex but a higher chance of meeting women with similar interests etc so they’re a good addition to usual bar/club game. The moot point thing was pretty stupid I’ll give you that, too much time in university classes.
lol @ #23 Mike. Couldn’t had written it any better… I always figured sites like these would make my life harder in pickup but either the knowledge is not mainstream enough or people are truly too pussy to put knowledge into action. Not trying to knock on #2 turk112, but what’s the worst that can happen from a cold approach? No one in a bar will notice nor care about 5 seconds once it’s over if you fail miserably. Play it off as just being friendly… I look at it if you’re being a b-i-t-c-h and aloof while out and about you should had just stayed home and drank wine on your couch and saved some money on cab fares and bar tabs.
comments 20 and 28 have to be the best ever
I think this post is a bit simplistic and surreal. There’s no reason why you can’t benefit from both cold approaches and social circle game. Becoming an approach junkie is a surefire way to becoming a somewhat weird oddball. Guys who can only meet girls socially are handicapped too. It also depends on your personality. Guys who are somewhat lone predatory hunters (Roosh for eg:) are going to have very little mileage running social circle game. Their misanthropy and agenda driven attitudes will pretty much sink any chance of really getting in with a group. I have friends who are supreme schmoozers and get laid A LOT, who would struggle with cold approaching. It does really matter cause they have the ability to engineer awesome social circles filled with hot girls out of thin air. Go with your strengths, I say. I probably lie somewhere in the middle. I think most guys do. Also guys in college will get way more mileage out of social circle game, than older guys whose circles consist of coupled up pairs and scary cougars.
But yeah I take Roosh’s point that the oft quoted community myth of ‘social game is king’ is not universal as all that.
Bottomline: If you can’t cold approach, you need to start. If you can’t remember the last time you got laid through a warm contact, you need to work on getting lays more organically via socialising.
“Chuck: I’m just trying to point out that your alternate viewpoint is beta.”
Thousands of politicians, actors, musicians, and pro athletes around the world would disagree with you.
“How can anyone not read the following and conclude that you seek approval from your female peers as if they were the boss of your sex drive?”
There is a big difference between seeking approval for your sex drive and managing social connections.
I’m not sure what to make of Roosh so far, however, after reading some of the numerous articles on this board, I have managed to come to some definite conclusions. He is obviously not as dark or as misogynistic as Roissy. Between the two, Roissy is certainly the more intelligent and talented author, but Roosh is far more accomplished academically and professionally.
That said, the more important question is: Is Roosh the pick-up artist he claims to be? After some calm deliberation, I’m going to have to answer with a tentative “no,” unless presented with evidenc to the contrary. Anyone who needs to leave the USA and visit a Third World shithole in South America in order to get laid is a loser. I mean, who would want to abandon some of the world’s most desirable, educated, sophisticated and cosmopolitan women -which is essentially what most (white) American women are- to spend time with an illiterate mixed race mongrel who secretly prostitutes herself to naive westerners in order to acquire a few pesos? Only someone who is seriously socially challenged would do such a thing and only someone so puffed up with his own self-importance and ego would claim that he was a master PUA based on his experiences gaming a few mestiza whores in some remote Latin American village. In short, Roosh is a dud, not a stud; he is the ultimate beta male. The fact that he must write rambling tomes celebrating his sexual dalliances with poverty-stricken and ignorant Third World whores is not only proof of his ineptitude, but of his lack of game. If anything, Roosh is a master sex tourist, not a PUA.
“I mean, who would want to abandon some of the world’s most desirable, educated, sophisticated and cosmopolitan women -which is essentially what most (white) American women are”
You are an idiot.
“You are an idiot.”
So what are you trying to say? That ignorant, repulsive and illiterate Brazilian mulattas and Colombian mestizas are superior to white American women? The richest, the most beautiful and the most highly educated women in the world are found in your own backyard… the USA (and in western Europe as well, I might add). You’re just bitter because none of them want to touch your dirty ass with a 10-foot stick. Now get back to crying into a box of kleenex and jerking off over your Thai ladyboys with your gay bed buddy Roosh.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, the people who hate American women the most are the ones who have had no luck with them at all. You can keep your dirty mestizos, but American women rock.
I wish I could pull social circle game. I’m in law school and have the unfortunate situation of having few true friends here, and most of them are attached in serious relationships. I really have no wingman, so I basically need to approach on my own. I wish I had a social circle to game chicks in; yeah, it’s complicated, but it’s more satisfying to win in that game, to be fucking a hot girl and having everyone else know.
Plus, approaching sucks in a big city like NYC. You get rejected the majority of the time, and women here are not diplomatic about it either. (I’m far from ugly btw.)
I’m at the point I don’t give a fuck anymore. I’ll hit on the bitches in my law school and bitches out of my law school pretty blatantly and if I get rejected, so what.
Social circle game is lazy, for sure. But it is what it is. If that friend of a friend is looking good then I definitely fucks with that.
Getting at the girls in your close social circle, girls that are your friends, on the other hand? Well, that’s lower than beta.
“the most beautiful and the most highly educated women in the world are found in your own backyard… the USA”
Ignorance should be a crime.
On the “henhouse” thing for number 19. This is like office politics, but within your social circle. This is why I recommend fucking outside the social circle. Fucking in the circle circle has too much drama potential.
Social circle game is the default method of meeting girls for most guys because it doesn’t require them to overcome their adversity to cold rejection. A guy can try and “sneak” his way into a girls pants and if he finds out she doesn’t like him, he can pretend like he wasn’t trying anything in the first place. In a cold approach, you are FORCED to face rejection if it occurs.
Ironically, I’ve seen a lot of guys who have been in the game for a while eventually refuse to do Cold approaches because they’ve developed such huge social circles that they no longer feel the need to challenge themselves.
I agree with you that approach definitely puts you in a good position maybe even better position to meet attractive women. However, I think that social circle can come in handy especially in nightgame. I know when I roll to the club with like 3 or 4 girls that I know and get a table it makes it so much much easier to open other girls.
At the same time, I probably wouldn’t bring those girls with me to do day game. I think it depends on the context of what style of game you should use.
I definitely prefer social circle for nightgame.
One vote from me too for approaching vs. social circle game.
It depends on the country though – I think Roosh noticed that in Argentina, for example, nightlife venues are mostly sit-down place, mixed groups come and stay together the whole night, and it’s hard to approach. Some countries in EE are like that too – the latest shit is to book a table and order bottle service. And it’s not just $500 Grey Goose bottles either – a lot of clubs offer $50-100 Johnie Red or something like that, so most patrons book a table, get a bottle, and stay together all night, just to follow the fashion. Fewer and fewer bars of the meat market variety remain. I guess they get their mingling off Facebook or some shit, and do less of it when going out.
I just love these discussions! The biggest problem is that many guys make this and either/or proposition. Game/approach guys think other methods of getting laid are for pussies. All of the pitfalls to social circle pussy that were laid out were legit, but so what? If you have success that way, more power to you. Personally, I’ve never been big on “belonging” to groups of any kind. I’m more of a loner, so I advocate “floating” in and out of circles. Fucking within a circle DOES cause all kinds of problems, so just don’t entrench yourself.
Another benefit is that platonic female friend that will act as your own personal PR department. For whatever reason you’ve never fucked, but she thinks so highly of you that she wants you to fuck friends and acquaintances. Instead of cockblocking, she’ll actually HELP you bang other women. If she is a member of multiple social circles (I have a great friend like this who has different circles that don’t co-mingle), she can be your in.
The benefits of approach game are obvious, so no need to expound any further on that. I’ve always admired men that have that “I just don’t give a fuck” confidence, that have rejection simply roll off of them. They’re like that relief pitcher that gives up the game-winning homer one night, but the next night it’s like it never happened, and he strikes out the slugger to end the game and nail down the save.
Many men STILL believe online game is weak. WRONG. If that’s your sole route to pussy, it can be problematic, but it’s a great side project for out-of-town and international hookups. That’s how I use it. I don’t look for local women, but out-of-state and worldwide women in cities around the world that I hope to visit. You cultivate, then all of a sudden you’re getting the “when are you coming to visit?” question. I’ve had women even invite me to stay with them, eliminating those hotel costs. The ideal world is having approach as your base, but be running all these other forms of game simultaneously depending on your particular personality and lifestyle.
“I mean, who would want to abandon some of the world’s most desirable, educated, sophisticated and cosmopolitan women -which is essentially what most (white) American women are.” 37 Jimmy
Jimmy isn’t an idiot. He’s merely a white supremacist. In fact, a majority of white men in America believe exactly the same thing, but would never express it exactly this way. The problem I have with his statement is the premise that ONLY the American white woman is attractive – that whole beauty ideal that the media puts forth throughout the world. The fact that he can’t look at a woman of another race or culture and say, “Wow…she isn’t my preference, but she’s very attractive.” As far as them being educated, sophisticated, cosmopolitan…BULLSHIT. So many young women come flooding into big American cities thinking that the moment their feet touch the pavement there their stock immediately rises. Graduating from college doesn’t make you intelligent. Going out and living in a big city doesn’t make you sophisticated. With a lot of these bitches it’s like a little girl dressing up in mommy’s clothes, PLAYING adult. Most of them are STILL looking for a man to carry them, but have to work and support themselves in the meantime. And the reason many men look outside the US for female companionship has less to do with looks, but more to do with attitude. The fact that they THINK they’re too good for most men, when in fact they bring little to the table other than their soon to be fading looks is more the problem.
“The richest, the most beautiful and the most highly educated women in the world are found in your own backyard… the USA (and in western Europe as well, I might add). You’re just bitter because none of them want to touch your dirty ass with a 10-foot stick.”
Ah, I see someone from feministing.com just stopped by to say hello.
Hi fat girl!
I find social circle to be not only easier but the quality of the interactions to be higher. Sure, you meet fewer girls, but building attraction is far far easier.
roosh you are the man but I have had great luck with meeetup, yelp and other similar type events vs bars. My luck at getting a number is 5% at a bar vs 50% at a meetup type event. Sure the chicks are younger and hotter at clubs. They are MUCH less likely to give a man shit in that environment. Youd be better off following that chick from the bar to the next stop and approaching her there. Bars and clubs are hands down one of the worst places to meet women, game or now. Their bitch mode and defensiveness are sky high. At an event you are socially pre approved and pre introduced so bitch mode and defensiveness are low. Now if its a singles event thats different.
[...] Tech – “Women are Locked Into Their Own Subjectivity”Roosh – “Approaching vs Social Circle“, “Don’t Let Bad Breath Hurt Your Game”Steve Sailer – [...]
Ive had great luck using meetup with a few caveats. Most meetup chicks who actually come to events are either plain janes or over 40 or both. Hotties are slim so downgrade your expectations. all the dudes are swarming the few hotties under 40. get in line.
The same ugly women come to all the meetup events week after week so after a while youve exhausted the possibilities. They gossip and talk shit about men. Once youve burned a few bridges you need to retire from that group for a few months to let fresh meat come in. I’m speaking from a very large metro area. In a small city it will be far worse.
@56 Hank…good points. This is why I also don’t do fix-ups. It automatically puts someone into your business. They feel like they’re vested in your relationship with the person they introduced you to. They’ll want to get into “couples” dates and the like. I try to never fuck with anyone that has link to anyone else I know.
My buddy was a bartender who worked at a bar with weekly male strippers. He said that I should come, no cover charge. Sometimes women audiences a great. My other buddy was a bouncer at a strip joint and I used to pick him up after work sometimes. Waited inside but didn’t hang around. That aroused the girls’ interest.