In Medellin I met a lot of guys who frequented prostitutes, and I want to talk about the main argument they use to justify their behavior:

You’re paying for it anyway. You have to take her out to dinner and drinks. That costs money and there’s no guarantee you’re going to get laid.

Somewhat reasonable on the surface, but it’s only true for men who don’t have game, where the cost of new pussy acquisition (cost per notch) can be the per capita income of some third world nations (no joke).

If you have solid game, getting laid is incredibly cheap. Most of my lays in the United States are one night stands, and that’s a cost of $0 until you start counting the indirect costs related to existence (true cost per notch). Half of my dates are simply going over to the girls place to bang and many others are where she pays because she knows I’m poor.

Game is like having passive income, where even if you are not currently paying to play, you still have residual pussy that you can fuck for free. With prostitution the moment you stop paying is the moment you stop fucking.

It’s true that learning game is not cheap and takes time, but if you put in at least a year of solid work, you can have a lifetime of scoring pussy relatively easy. It’s like getting a college degree for a job that guarantees full employment until you die. The alternative is not getting the girls you want, whining on men’s rights forums all day long, and having to pay a whore each time you want to fuck. Your only hope of a relationship in that case is a mail order bride (which I’m not bashing but just saying).

The main difference between guys learning game and guys banging prostitutes is laziness. The second is creepiness. Meet a regular john and you’ll understand what I mean—they brag about fucking prostitutes like a college guy brags about fucking a sorority slut. I’ll just say this: if the girl you fucked wouldn’t acknowledge you on the street afterwards, and in most cases would ignore you and pray you don’t recognize her, then I consider your bang to be shameful and something you should keep to yourself.

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Question: You wrote a few posts about prostitution in Medellin, including one about this guy who had a very unfortunate incident with an IUD. I won’t elaborate, but you know what I’m talking about…

Is he alive?

Interesting post, Roosh, but I don’t agree. I think looking down on prostitution is too easy. I agree that all men should learn game, or at least be able to attract a girl without paying to do so. On the other hand, as a guy who live in abundance, I don’t really see a problem paying for a shag once in a while (if I’m in a country where one can afford to do so).
To me it’s a pretty honest transaction, whereas a lot of my lays involve lying to a certain degree. A perfect example would be in South America, where telling the girls that you’re gonna be staying a certain place long term just helps your opportunities with her tremendously. And most of the time during a pick up you will be playing games. I like that. But on the hand I like plain shagging as well.
In that case the prostitute is a pretty good solution…

It depends where you are. In London, where it’s legal, there are Playboy quality escorts. In the US, they’ve got meth face and track marks. You could also be put on a sex offender list if caught and screw up your life.

I also think that Game appeals more to certain people. Guys like Roissy love the verbal tango, the thrill of the chase etc. Others don’t want to deal with shit tests, openers and routines at all. These guys might be better off with hookers.

About the “you’re still paying” argument: yes game is more practical from a purely money standpoint, but you also paying in time and having to navigate a lot of BS. The whole song and dance involved in gaming women can be quite involved and tedious.

All things considered, if you live in the US, Game’s the better investment. In countries where prostituion is legal and the escorts much hotter than their American counterparts, either avenue has pros and cons.

Prostitution is fine for what it is, but Roosh’s point is that guys who frequent them try to act as if it’s the same thing as Game. Users of hookers should just realize and admit to the fact that their lays are of a different nature than Game lays.

I’ve never used them but I can see their usefulness in certain situations. It’s when a guy uses them for most of his lays that it becomes a problem.

Roosh: On an unrelated note, I work with a former Marine whose brother spends a couple of months every year traveling through South America. He mentioned that his brother liked Medellin the best of all he’d visited, and that the women were very amenable to his penis. Anyway, I recommended ADBIP to him as a possible Christmas gift. I could lend him the copy you sent me, but I figure you might as well get paid.

Chuck’s last blog post: Women’s Sports Are Boring: Blame Title IX.

Roosh, I read your book cover to cover last week, and as an experienced traveller, womanizer, and whoremonger, I can honestly say that you would have had a MUCH better time on your trip if you had just visited a brothel twice a week.

The only exception is the girl you met in Brazil.

You seemed to have spent all of your free time going to bars and clubs and wasting HOURS on fruitless attempts to get laid. You should have spent those hours having REAL experiences, seeing the sights, exploring the country, and making genuine friendships.

Then, when you needed to get laid, you see a whore. There are BEAUTIFUL whores all over South America that you can have for less than $100. Especially Argentina.

This is what I do when I travel, and I feel no shame in it. I’d much rather spend an evening walking the parks and neighborhoods of a foreign country, snapping pictures, trying food, talking to the locals, etc. than spend 6 hours in a club hitting on women. Travel time is precious and it’s just not worth it.

Also, it seems the only whoremongers you’ve encountered are sex tourists. You’re right about them, they’re creepy. But some guys (like me) who are successful with women ALSO like to pick up a whore now and then. Look at this way: I’m an excellent cook and I can competently prepare a gourmet meal, but sometimes I like to go to a restaurant and pay somebody else to do it for me. Again, there’s no shame in that.

Open your mind a little.

PS: I’m not using the word “whore” as a slur or putdown. I treat these women with respect, and they give me a great time.

Prostitution should only be a last resort… or as Erik said, if you’re girlfriend is a 5 and you want to bang a 10.

Of the friends I know who go to prostitutes, there is a common problem: shyness.

One of them is working to overcome it, the other one has basically given up and, at this point, I am sure will depend on prostitutes for the rest of his life (or until he gets his shit together).

So, at least from what I have personally witnessed, people resort to prostitution when they don’t want to put effort into advancing their lives, because the shyness hurts them in more ways than just being able to get sex.

“Time” is always a cost in swooping girls.

Prostitution makes a ton of sense for certain guys.

Take the high powered money man for instance. If you make $1000 an hour or so (and up) it is a much cheaper move to swoop a fly lady of the night.

For him, taking the time to meet a girl, seduce her, and deal with the hangover and miss work is much more expensive than just flipping her 2 grand.

It could be also argued for a Tiger Woods type.

He swooped a civilian and it will ending up costing him way more than if he just would have paid a bad girl who would have kept her mouth shut.

- MPM

The G Manifesto’s last blog post: The Las Vegas Litmus Test.

“But some guys (like me) who are successful with women ALSO like to pick up a whore now and then. Look at this way: I’m an excellent cook and I can competently prepare a gourmet meal, but sometimes I like to go to a restaurant and pay somebody else to do it for me.”

Another excellent point.

I know a cat that is one of the biggest Playboys I have ever met. Swoops like 200 girls per year. No joke. Models, Playmates, 9′s and 10′s like there is no tomorrow.

He goes out almost every night. A swoops fly girls more often than not. Non-ladies of the night.

If he fails, he calls up a high end escort and swoops her.

I bet he swoops 140 fly civilians per year and 60 beautiful escorts.

Now, ask yourself, Who’s the Mack?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkQ6ZCYYa0&feature=related

- MPM

The G Manifesto’s last blog post: The Las Vegas Litmus Test.

I think if you’re in a foreign city for a short period of time, and there’s like 3 hours before your flight out, AND you’ve put in work but failed, then it’s acceptable, but yeah nothing to brag about or put on your notch count. Sort of like masturbation only with an actual girl.

But if you’re somewhere long-term, then prostitutes are lame unless you’re just plain ugly or deformed.

“I know a cat that is one of the biggest Playboys I have ever met. Swoops like 200 girls per year. No joke. Models, Playmates, 9’s and 10’s like there is no tomorrow.”

Yeah, that makes sense. When you have a high sex drive, and you want to keep the sexual flow moving, then it makes sense to keep the flow moving whichever way is feasible.

“if the girl you fucked wouldn’t acknowledge you on the street afterwards, and in most cases would ignore you and pray you don’t recognize her, then I consider your bang to be shameful and something you should keep to yourself.”

I’m a little confused by this. Didn’t you say that often you just bang them quick, don’t care about their pleasyre, and get out? If some of them ignore you after that, do you consider those bangs shameful?

On the other hand, I would imagine prostitutes will be more than happy so see a repeat client or anybody with a buck. Are those bangs not shameful then?

Also, how much are the street hookers there and what quality on a 10-pt scale?

skinny guy:

You sound like someone who typically bangs prostitutes and has found a way to rationalize it in order to escape the shame that you ought to feel for being such a schmuck.

If you banged girls in their early 20s without having to coerce them with money, then you would know the kind of look Roosh is talking about.

And to further show that you don’t know what you’re talking about, let’s take a look at what you said:
“I’m a little confused by this. Didn’t you say that often you just bang them quick, don’t care about their pleasyre[sic], and get out?”

If you knew one thing about girls, especially younger girls, it is that they respond well to “assholes,” or guys who don’t care as much.

That’s the way the world is. That’s the way men and women are. Either you’re going to come to terms with that notion, and come to terms with whatever morality you grew up with as well, or you will continue to live off prostitutes.

The more I think about this, the more ludicrous (and I don’t mean that rapper from the ATL either) this all is.

The lines better civilian girls and escorts has been very blurred in the last 10 years.

What is a “Pure Swoop”?

When you meet a girl, swoop her in two seconds and spend exactly $0.00?

If you spend one dollar on her, you are tricking.

If she spends one dollar on you, you are a Gigolo.

None of it matters. (Kind of fun to debate though).

As Nike says, “Just swoop it”.

- MPM

The G Manifesto’s last blog post: The Las Vegas Litmus Test.

Meet a regular john and you’ll understand what I mean—they brag about fucking prostitutes like a college guy brags about fucking a sorority slut.

A guy who brags about nailing whores is like a chick who brags about getting nailed by guys in general. If it didn’t require work on your part, it’s not something to boast about.

Ferdinand Bardamu’s last blog post: Where green is always on top.

Ok, here are some reasons why it’s largely inappropriate to compare a whore with a regular girl.

1) A whore has sex with multiple men per day. A typical girl doesn’t.
2) A whore doesn’t cook for you.
3) A whore doesn’t come by when you’re short on cash.
4) You can’t bang a whore without a condom (unless you are one risky mofo)
5) You can’t crash at a whore’s place when you’re stopping by in town.
6) A whore is not going to pay for shit!
7) You can’t kiss a whore (well you can, but that’s nasty)

and so on and so forth.

The ONLY advantage of a whore is that, as said before, you are paying her to leave!

When you just want to fuck a girl, and be left alone, there is nothing better than a whore!

Someone said ‘You can buy compliance, not desire.’ How applicable is this to the above argument?

when you learn how to attract and bang hot women….you become fearless….in all areas. If you just get hookers….you are not giving yourself a chance to maximize your natural talents. BUT…THERE IS A TIME FOR HOOKERS…TIGER WOODS WISHES HE GOT ONE….

The “you pay for it one way or another” idea is complete bullshit.

I spent years in the navy, and whoresex there is just normal. I’ve never done it once. Guys that bang a lot of prostitutes really bother me.

It kills your game. Look at Charlie Sheen. How fake did his game have to be when he landed Denise Richards. Look at how things turned out for him once she realized how fake he was. He probably treated her the same way he did Heidi Fleiss. He didn’t know any better.

There is not one whore in this world that actually enjoys the sex. If they say they do they are lying. Every reaction you get out of any prostitute is fake, and don’t forget that. It doesn’t matter who you are or how much you spend. Guys get to a point where they think they’ve learned something about women through prostitutes.

Then to land a real woman, a guy who bangs a lot of whores has no choice but to spend $200 on dinner and drinks and nonsense. That’s why he develops the “well you are paying for it one way or another” attitude. Add that money to the money he’s already spent on the whores and his cost per normal notch is through the roof.

If you have that attitude you might as well just stay home and masturbate. It’s free. If you still want more masturbate again. Just keep doing it. Eventually you’ll be tired and won’t go anywhere and you won’t spend any of you money at all.

Aloha!

The STD risks, the money, the furtiveness, the potential arrests……………..it just does not make sense for any man who doesn’t make 6-figures a year to blow money on prostitutes in my opinion.

The scenario I can see a guy making a “wise choice” and doing a call girl is if he is obsessed with big tits or something, and just has to know what humongous boobs are like or an extraneous example like that (a spinner, a tall chick, a big-assed girl, a red-head, whatever floats his boat but has had no luck in pulling). Paying enough money to pay a car-note just to get your rocks off when there are many women out there who want to have sex for nothing just doesn’t compute for the average guy. You might need that money someday. Part of me just resents women getting paid to do something that might be freely pleasurable to themselves. There are plenty of women out there who are “4′s, 5′s, and 6′s” who love to screw on the internet if you cannot pull bar-quality hotties. Much better it is to have good sex with an average gal than to pay a “7″ a half-a-month’s rent for 30 minutes.

If a guy make a LOT of money (like 150K a year or something, and sets aside 30K to blow on pro-girls), I could see that. I think he’d be missing that exitement that comes with the thrill of the chase though.

What if I pay myself to jerk off????
Is that wrong?

@Kona,
normally you’re posting quality stuff. But this:
“I spent years in the navy, and whoresex there is just normal. I’ve never done it once.”

If you’ve never slept with a whore, how can you then look down upon it?

Whore-sex can be excellent, nasty, mediocre and everything in between. Just like sleeping with girls who do it for free..

Some people wanna build up an ego about not paying for sex. That’s fine with me, but in the end it’s just self delusion. Paying for sex, doesn’t mean you can’t get it for free. Like paying for a maid doesn’t mean you’re not able to clean your own house. Sometimes you just don’t feel like. Shagging a whore is not about faking skills. It’s about being lazy, which I think is a decent option once in a while.

Its got nothing to do with money, it has to do what with what youre after in your encounters with women.

In my experience the guys most opposed to whores are the ones whose ego and vanity are tied to their *ability* to get women to approve of them.

Many guys get huge amounts of ego validation based on what women think of them, and obviously these guys have no use at all for whores.

I used to live in Thailand which is all about whoring, and the guys who absolutely refused to partake were always the ones who had a huge chip on their shoulder about their ability to get chics.

Its al so childish. I can understand that you need to *prove* to yourself that you can score at some point in your life, but once youve already demonstrated that to yourself, again and again and again, cant you just relax?

I would see these guys in clubs night after night spending hours socializing with girls they didnt necessarily like or enjoy talking to just to get into their pants – when they could easily have just paid for sex with chics ten times hotter!

I always couldnt understand how their egos were so tied up in their ability to get chics that they will invest such a huge amount of effort to – maybe get with! average to slightly hot girls – just for sex – when they could be with girls ten times hotter for a bit of cash!

Isnt there a point where you mature, youve proven yourself to yourself with regard to girls and have nothing more to prove, and when youre after such sex, pure and simple, with the hottest chics, its no longer about ego for you and just about ease of access?

But I guess some guys never get over their need to prove something, again and again and again. It was interesting to me.

This only applies to outside the US, where the whores are hot and cheap. In the US the whores are disgusting or super-expensive and you wont even be able to get at them without connections.

It also only applies to those times when youre after sex pure and simple, and you probably dont even plan on seeing the girl the next day. If youre out to party and have a great time and socialize and make some kind of connection with a hot girl, obviously that doesnt apply either.

Interestingly, in all of Asia and Russia and Eastern Europe, upper-class men – with beautiful girlfriends and wives – pay for whores all the frikkin time – there is absolutely no stigma attached to it, it is just seen as harmless and innocent fun, a boys night out. The reason is, unlike many Game people, these guys GENUINELY dont need womens approval of them, and are GENUINELY just after the sex and not after ego validation. They grew up in a male dominated society, they are upper class, they have beautiful girlfriends doting on them, they have all the validation they need, and can freely indulge their sexual appetites without all the ego-baggage of American men and with a minimum of fuss and expense.

In Europe whoring was a hugely popular pastime for well heeled men until feminism came and ruined the party for everyone and the good times ended. Now you gotta travel overseas to find the same kind of licentiousness and sexual abandon, and even then most American men have been too terrified and ego-cowed to really plunge in.

Whoring has its place – its not for all the time, but its great fun some of the time, but only those willing to think outside the box, unafraid, and who dont seek the approval of women can partake.

id say it depends. does it make sense for the guy working at mcdonalds? probably not. the rich guy with access to high quality girls, preferably in a legal country, maybe. there would be a big difference between meth heads on the street and model-caliber girls in my opinion.

you hit the nail on the head K

a good first step would be to legalize prostitution here in the states and then see what happens. victimless crime for sure

@Billy

“normally you’re posting quality stuff” Mahalo Brah!

Here’s more quality stuff:

“If you’ve never slept with a whore, how can you then look down upon it?”

I read a lot of fishing blogs, too. Some of the people on them go to lakes overly stocked, or to portions of the ocean netted off to fish because it’s easier. They pay for this.

I’ve never fished in one of these, not because of my ego, but because I love the hunt just as much as I do landing a big ass kajiki. I respect the sport too much to pay to make it easy.

Then you gotta think about the poor fish. They get dragged from their homes, and taken to some huge netted off area. Some of them are specifically hatched to live their whole lives in a net reserve waiting for some fat guy who can’t catch shit the normal way to come and yank them out of the water and torture them. Now I’ve been to net reserves. You throw some bread overboard and all the fish just come running. They start jumping and chasing your boat and whatnot. They know that the more they jump around the more food the fish pimp is gonna throw them. Why would I a fishing purist, want to give money to some guy who’s destroying not only the fish’s lives and the sport itself, and who is also destroying the skill level of the fisherman?

I grew up around Waikiki, which on any given night has 75-100 girls walking the strip. (200-300 during NFL Probowl week). Every single one of those girls is managed. I’ve been to every whore heavy spot on earth. Maybe you read about, or see a girl advertised as “independent” 99.999% of them aren’t. If the say they are they’re probably lying. Just look at the “bitch where’s my money” bruises on their biceps.

I would never give my money to some pimp who’s destroying the lives of the girls, the game itself, and also the skills of all my brothers out there landing chicks the real way.

On the fishing blogs, people that go to pay lakes always say: “In my experience the guys most opposed to pay lakes are the ones whose ego and vanity are tied to their *ability* to catch fish”

I say they just don’t respect fishing or the fish enough to take the time to acquire the skill to land them. Or they just aren’t any good at it.

Here’s a sidenote: I know what you are going to say about the girl’s ability to leave the pimp and get out of it whenever she wants. People that run the “humane” reserves say that the fish can find the opening and swim out whenever they want, or jump over the barriers. The problem is when they get into the real ocean they either forgot how to eat the normal way or they were raised in the reserve and never learned how to do it correctly. They die.

ALOHA!

To all you pro-prostitute guys: What would you say about a woman who hires male prostitutes?

Nobody cares about your views on guys using whores. Why would they? What is in for them?

having a whore call for a free fuck is a nice experience.
Just sayin’

K…

defending sex tourists in Thailand?? Are you kidding… those guys are the most enlightened and have it all figured out?

Sex trafficking is also hugely popular in Russia, Asia, and Eastern Europe

So who gives a F about what is acceptable there.

Kona,

But I guess once in a while you go to a top notch restaurant and eat your damn fish, right? That doesn’t mean that you don’t care about fishing.
It’s just a nice option and alternative.

I think it is quite possible for grown up people to distinguish the two notions; sex and chasing chicks.

Yes, I like the hunt for women.

Yes, I like sex.

But I don’t see the two as interconnected. Often they are, but it doesn’t have to be that way.

[...] Ist Schüchternheit eine Ursache dafür zu Prostituierten zu gehen? Mein Tipp an schüchterne Männer: Überwinde deine [...]

Kona -

I dont really know why I am bothering to point this out, but your grasp of logic is weak.

According to your fishing analogy, you are merely proving my point. Fishing is a sport, a test of skill and ability. The whole point of the activity is to demonstrate skill.

If the whole point were merely to get fish, then one should obviously just go to the supermarket.

You have very nicely provided a perfectly illustration of what I said about prostitutes and normal girls and reinforced every point I made. Thank you.

As for Rooshes question, it is perhaps misposed – whoring isnt *an alternative* to Game, but it can be a fun and exciting and spicy condiment or side dish and accompaniment to regular nightlife in certain countries.

The kind of sexual abandon you can experience with whores, where you control the entire encounter with no strings attached whatsoever and where you have to make no effort at all to *please* the girl, is something not to be found in the regular nightlife world. Is it better? No. It is different and sexually thrilling in an entirely different way. Both are good.

This was widely understood in all traditional male dominated cultures – from the courtesans and Heterae enjoyed by Classical Greek upper class men, to the Geishas enjoyed by the Japanese
Samurai class, to the beautiful courtesans of the court of Louis the XIV. The modern West is the only historical period which has no place for prostituion, and this is the result of feminism.

Only prudes, puritans, feminists, the timid and conformist, or those who need ego validation from women can possibly be against the.

To Anonymous – legalizing prostituion would only be a first step. It is already legal in the Netherlands, Germany, etc. What you need to do is reduce the cultural stigma attached to it so that attractive and normal women would be drawn to it. This means at least in part rolling back feminism.

In Asia or Russia, perfectly normal, often super-hot girls often whore a bin on the side – they are often students are prestigious unis or secretaries – but so far in the West only low-class, not so pretty girls are drawn to it.

“In Asia or Russia, perfectly normal, often super-hot girls often whore a bit on the side”

Yeah for economic reasons…

They also behead people in Saudi… doesnt mean they should do that in Minnesota.

Dude.. if you love hired sex go for it, but trying to portray prostitution as an innocent past time akin to mini golf, is a bit of a stretch

how is sex of any type an innocent past time akin to mini golf? lol

#34 – Right, I guess when Japan and S Korea and Taiwan become a first world nations like the US, I guess the huge amounts of paid sex will all cease. Astute analysis.

Besides Im writing about this from the male perspective, not the female perspective.

If I was roosh, Id think youre a crypto-chic. Perhaps youd given yourself away?

That being said, prostitution is easily defended from the female perspective, too.

Jobs at Mcdonalds suck, but people do them. Life is full of trade offs. Marrying rich men you dont like is a trade off. Men too are often faced with restricted options.

Hi roosh, anything coming up with a daygame book? or maybe an update to Bang ?

have you met roissy in person btw? is he legit? cuz I feel sometimes he goes overboard in his blog and bragging.

best and love your blog!

here’s an analogy, you can say whether its flawed or not.

the kid who studies day and night to get the A on the test

and then then kid who cheats (pays the TA to give him an A)

# 38 – its flawed. Study logic.

most girls dont enter into the profession willingly (i.e. sex trafficking), or else a dire economic sit., the places you mentioned nothwithstanding.

earlier you referred to russia, s.e. asia, and the erstwhile soviet union where it’s totally diff.

quit trying to justify your predilictions by citing the history of courtesans in the 15th century. it’s not convincing

Here’s one argument of relying on game vs prostitutes: The quality of the sex.

I don’t care who you are or who you say you are, it takes sleeping with a girl at least 2-3 times before you get into a rhythm with her, and to where you both are reaching your potential for having good to great sex with each other. Every girl is different, and its almost impossible to have maximum quality sex with a girl the first and only time you sleep with her, imo. The sex can be good, but if it is, then the later sex will be even better. The familiarization process is unavoidable and necessary. The only way to bypass this is generally with significant drug use that can heighten the experience no matter what the situation.

In my opinion, if the sex that a guy has at any time is equivalent to his general first time sex experience with a girl, then he’s probably not that good in bed. Also, if he doesn’t care about the difference between first time sex and subsequent encounters, and therefore probably uses the measure of whether he gets his rocks off or not as to the quality of the sex, then he’s got a way to go to really start enjoying a better sexual experience. This all, of course, is opinion.

First time sex with a girl usually borders on boring for me, even if full effort is put into being as freaky as possible. Its just too new to be that good. Beyond the thrill of strange vagina, that is. I’m speaking strictly in terms of sex quality.

Thats why I don’t understand claims of guys who attempt to sleep with 200 girls per year, as that equates to a lot of first time/only time lays and would be pretty boring/sexually unsatisfying for me. Strange is nice, but nothing really beats sex taken to its maximum potential even if you’ve got to stick with a girl for a bit.

Unemployed Roosh Fan:

Perhaps the Roosh comment section isn’t the best place for moralizing, no matter what the actual facts of the global sex trade. Consider the blog you are posting on.

Also, the not so subtle jab of your username isnt lost on anyone. Why do you post here if you hate, or are otherwise so judgmental of, the people here? I’m not coming at you, but generally curious.

In general I think the risks are too high stateside to make it worth the effort. However, I live in one of those counties in Nevada with legal brothels (and no, that’s not why I moved here!) and I can tell you that while it might be expensive, it is also pretty safe and regulated. All the girls have to get checked out at least once per week, and the bars at the brothels are open to anyone with no pressure to patronize the girls. You can just come and look, if that’s your preference.

Anyone who needs to do this on a regular basis needs to do some soul-searching as to why he can’t pull pussy for free, but for those living a life of frustration and/or extended virginity or dry spells, it is worth the trip for no other reason than to know that you now won’t die a virgin.

trafficking happens because its illegal; same with drugs. It happens BECAUSE of moralizing, so yeah cut the crap.

hey guys…sorry..
i wasn’t moralizing, or “hating”…
even if it came off the way..

not that’s it’s worths anyones time but if you read the chain of posts, i was responding to a vy specific comment and not railing against prostitution at large. my comments were under the context of the topic (game vs. prost.)

subtle jab of my user name? i’ve bought Roosh’s books, like this blog, and i happen to be unemployed at the moment.

I´m definitely with Kona on this. Prostitution is for guys without or with litle game. It doesn´t matter if the guy had game in the past. The moment he starts paying for sex, it´s the moment his ability to game is gone.

[...] Roosh – “Is Banging Prostitutes a Worthwhile Alternative to Game?” [...]

often, but not always, game is a means to an end. i dont particularly like spitting the same tired game over and over again to the same tired bar skanks over and over again. if there were a higher quality, legal escort scene, maybe there would be better alterantives.

Chris,
for my occasional future posts, i’m changing my moniker to: “URF”
so it will not be misconstrued as a jab, which it definitely was not meant to be.

#33- You got me on my grasp of logic!

I don’t know why I’m bothering to point this out, but your grasp of reality is out of whack.

“you control the entire encounter” – You are NOT in control of anything when you are having sex with a prostitute. They let you think you are. That’s the game. The second your control illusion goes overboard the whore is out of your hotel room, mamasan’s got a shotgun aimed at you, or a pimp’s grabbing your cash. It’s the pimp who has all of the control.

“In Asia or Russia, perfectly normal, often super-hot girls often whore a bin on the side – they are often students are prestigious unis or secretaries” – Also a trick.

You really lived in Thailand and still believe that? Why do you think the independent girl you picked up had a cab driver’s cell phone number and he was so prompt? Why do you think she was at the specific bar you found her at or on that specific corner? Coincidence? Why do you think hotels make girls leave their ID’s with the front desk? So they know who’s in there? That’s what your led to believe, but it’s to help the pimps keep track of their girls.

Seriously, you’ve had sex with too many hookers.

Now look, you’re believing that the girls are actually college students out cutting corners to earn their book money.

People blame feminism for prostitution being illegal in America. But the lawmakers are all men? Maybe they are protecting dumbasses from pimps who put girls on the street to scam idiots out of their money? The reason it’s legal in the places it is isn’t because they are so sexually liberated. If you believe that you’re crazy. It’s because they are rip-off liberal. They don’t feel the need to protect morons that give pimps their money. You can get a lot of fake Rolexs in Moscow, are they just thinking really forward about that too?

The trick hookers pull is to show you their tits or let you grab their ass before money is discussed is the best. They say it’s to make sure you aren’t a cop. WRONG, it’s to get sex and only sex on the male brain before talking about the $$.

Prostitution is just another scam someone figured out to help fools part with their money. It’s a game and it’s unfortunate you’ve fallen victim to it, K. You are smart enough to call out my grasp of logic. You still believe though, that the guys in Thailand that refused to bang the whores did it because they had a chip on their shoulder. It’s not their egos. They’re smart enough to see through the scam.

I think guys that are Amway distributors are stupid, too. Some people say it’s because I’ve never tried it and I’m just not open minded. It’s my ego. Or my grasp of logic!

I just don’t like to be ripped off. I like being in control.

Aloha!

#50′s post is very good. It sounds bitter but I think it’s right on

“You are NOT in control of anything when you are having sex with a prostitute. They let you think you are. That’s the game. The second your control illusion goes overboard the whore is out of your hotel room, mamasan’s got a shotgun aimed at you, or a pimp’s grabbing your cash. It’s the pimp who has all of the control.”

Plenty of prostitutes work independently. And many of them do have day jobs or go to school.

I doubt you have any experience with prostitutues so your words have no authority. They’re pure speculation and stereotyping.

That said, I do believe there are dangers – mostly psychological – to going to prostitutes. The biggest one is that a dependency develops which precludes you developing your game.

#52- A lot of the independent’s day job just happens to be at the AMP but ONLY as the receptionist. She just works really long hours, and mama is a real jerk, so don’t go there to see her. If you do show up, she probably will make an exception and see you because you are special. She was just talking to the girls behind the glass. Mama is probably upset that one of her friends showed up, that’s why you had to tip a little more.

And of course a lot of the non-pro’s do go to college. It says so right on their Craigslist ads. That’s why you gave them the extra $50. Or maybe she was on her way to class when you picked her up. She feels bad wasting her dad’s tuition money, but she can’t pay her rent.

Who hasn’t bought dinners our drinks, and I know a skank or two I’ve banged has been put out there in the past, especially the Exotic Dancers. However, I have never exchanged money directly for sex or had sex with a girl who is currently being put out there.

I have twice the lifetime’s experience that even the most seasoned of “monger” has when it comes to dealing with prostitution and the business surrounding it. I’m not stereotyping or speculating.

Aloha!

Yet to bang a hooker, Im saving that for when I get married. :)

You always pay for sex. Time is money, and the time spent having to game women in an attempt to fuck them does cost you. It makes no sense when you earn peanuts, but if you are making some really good scratch, there really is little difference.

There is no such thing as free sex. Its either money spent in the pursuit itself or its the lost time chasing pussy.

Kona

Dude, you are absolutely clueless as to how prostitution works in other countries. You simply described the general idea of how prostitution works in America and then assumed it is exactly the same everywhere else. And even in America, youre describing low-calss prostituion. None of what you say applies high class hos in the States.

You have an extremely weak grasp of this subject and youre clearly emotionally driven – Im not saying youre stupid because I dont know you, but the arguments youve presented here display so glaring a lack of even basic, rudimentary logic, thats it not even necessary to argue facts with you. Pointing out your own extremely inadequate reasoning powers is perfectly sufficient.

You also keep on shifting the argument as I knock down what you say – a classic strategy for those who dont have a leg to stand on.

First you draw the fishing analogy, then when I point out that merely confirms my point that opposition to prostitution is motivated primarily by the need for approval from women and the vanity of demonstrating *skill* in bedding women, you completely dont respond to that and just shift the argument to other – equally weak – points. Classic. You could teach a class on basic evasion and point shifting as the going gets tough.

How is it a scam if I get exactly what I want – sex with a hot girl? Whats the logic in this?

How am I not in control if the woman does everything ask, just as I ask it, just because this surrender of control on her part is voluntary? I never claimed I am getting a slave who I have total control over – I claimed I am getting a girl who for money, will VOLUNTARILY work to please me. Of course she can choose not to do so, and I can choose not to use her services.

And because men pass pro-feminist laws the laws cant be inspired by feminism and be under its influence? Can you seriously not see the logical flaw in this?

Eh.

Look, its all good, its pointless arguing with you because you are inacapble of logical, sequential thought on this issue – that happens when someone is deeply emotionally involved with something. They often lose the ability to think clearly on it and commit the most egregious errors of logic in the most basic way, even as they are totally oblivious to it, while it is painfully obvious to everyone else.

You may have a personal angle here, I dont know, but I do know this isnt going anywhere. For whatever reason, you simply lack the ability to understand what I am telling you here and you lack the ability to formulate meaningful retorts that address my points.

So we should probably just leave it at that – it is perfectly okay with me if you continue beleiving what you wish about prostitution. Most American men strongly agree with you, so dont worry.

K-

I know how prostitution works in other countries. I know all about it on 4 of however many continents logic dictates there are.

The truest part about prostitution is that the game is the same no matter where you go.

Let me address your point, and I hope this makes you feel good, I hope it reminds you that every now and then feeling good is free:

“my point that opposition to prostitution is motivated primarily by the need for approval from women and the vanity of demonstrating *skill* in bedding women”

My opposition to prostitution is not because of my vanity or my need for approval from women. I don’t need the approval of women for anything in my life.

My opposition to prostitution is because it’s a trick. The pimp is tricking the girl, who is in turn tricking you. I don’t like to be tricked, and I don’t like to see anyone get tricked. I control the thoughts in my head and the money in my wallet.

You can use logic and egregious and sequential and all the other big words you do to justify the fact that you are a sucker. Maybe you are so far gone that feeling like a sucker is really what gets you off. The pimp is still using “gimme my money ho” in whatever language he speaks, and you are there to give it up.

I would imagine your big worded argument isn’t your own. One of your high priced call girls probably pillow talked it to you when you finished 10 minutes into your bbfstcip session. She was probably gonna get up and leave, but damn it you paid for the hour, and you are in control. The reason she knew all those big words is because she goes to college right? After all, you are the only client she does the BB stuff with, why wouldn’t she share her feelings with you.

Here’s another free tip. I know you only bang the highest of quality escorts. Keep that to yourself when discussing prices with the girls. The same soapy massage girl by day always seems to become the $5000 an hour Eliiot Spitzer type when she’s knows the cash is there. When it’s not there, the ho better her get back in line at the AMP. That pimp needs to get paid.

They got you brother, snap out of it.

Aloha!

Once again, Kona is throwing out half and quarter truths. Many prostitutes work without pimps. Some work for agencies or brothels which take a portion of their earnings for helping to procure customers and/or providing the business space. Others work completely on their own.

“My opposition to prostitution is because it’s a trick.”

No, it’s a straightforward exchange of money for sex.

I’m not recommending prostitution – its dangers far outweigh its pleasures for most men. It can lead to self-loathing and passivity. But those who have little or no experience with it shouldn’t pretend they do and form strong opinions about it based on ignorance.

no doubt guys who solicit prostitutes because they have no other option are creepy. i would estimate 90% of johns fall in that category. the remaining 10% are the martin sheen and hugh grant types — men who already have plenty of access to quality pussy but nonetheless get off on paying money for sex with sketchy chicks.

i knew two guys who fell into each category. one dude was a troll who would drive up to manhattan and get curbside hummers in his beat up civic at 3am with toothless whores. he never had a girlfriend. the other dude is a lobbyist making decent cash who drips with clintonesque southern charm and has no trouble picking up attractive chicks… but he’s a big aficionado of the happy ending at his local korean run massage parlor.

roissy’s last blog post: A Test Of Your Game.

Hey, no shame in getting a whore. I’ve had no problems with picking up girls in the US, but when I visit eastern europe I always hit a high end brothel. Why wouldn’t any rational male? It’s damn cheap in Eastern Europe (I recommend Prague); about $150 gets you a real 10. I’m talking about the equivalent of some girl that would be a complete bitch in any US club and would take extreme game and luck to get.

The definitive Roissy comment on whoring:

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/i-tried-the-apocalypse-opener/#comment-93716

I am new to this site and find all the posts either insightful or entertaining.

Want to give full disclosure here that I am married and what is def missing in this conversation is that most men that frequent whores are actually married men looking for new pussy who want to remain married and so they prefer to do this on the extreme DL than risk a fling with some bitch that could be crazy and ruin your family life. So keep in mind that everything being talked about here is from a single mans perspective which when it comes to prostitution i would assume is only 50% of the market.

Also another perspective especially where I live in Miami you have alot of whoring going on in strip clubs where you take a girl back to a champaign room, pay the house for the room and negotiate with the girl seperately once your in so no pimp involved (girl keeps all the money in a private negotiation/exchange).

Also I have family in Argentina and when I went to visit last year (last time I was there was 2000) noticed that many young normal girls were whoring in the clubs (called “gatitas” or kitty cats) who let you take them home but for a price.
Same happens in brazil (called “garota de programa”) and so my main point is that the distiction b/w escort and normal girl is being constantly blurred and not always a traditional whore/pimp situation

I am a busy guy. I dont have time to wait with a regular girl. But I need some. So a whore is better solution for me!

whores are great…and miss kona you are wrong that they are all fakin’it…mebbe for you ..but not for me …..i have had a whore “girl friend” that fucked me for free, even gave me money,,,and definatly cummed when we fucked…she actually had feelings for me ,, and me for her as well….too bad, she is a career whore and i couldn’t ever take her home ,,, and her pimp/husband finally threatened to have me killed…so it had to end….and i am not some big handsome stud,,,just an average guy…but what i am trying to say is that even a whore is still human, and a girl , and every now and then they connect with someone ,,,it is usually a doomed relationship , because they are locked into the life … but i think they can still feel affection…she was 20…and i still think about her,,, mebbee when her man is dead /in jail/or leaves her , i will email her… i snuck to see her 4 months ago…and have a friend that is keeping up on her status for me .,….crazy ? yes …so what ?…I DON’T CARE…life is real ….and nothing is set in stone

Guess what? There are people who like fucking whores. There are people who don’t want to fuck whores. The reasons don’t matter, just realize that THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE ENJOYING THINGS YOU DISAPPROVE OF. A scary thought I know, that nothing you do or say will influence another human being’s actions.

STD’s scare me off whores. The rate of AID and HIV goes through the roof….
No STD’s i would go no problem

at 65 “Guess what? There are people who like fucking whores. There are people who donâ��t want to fuck whores. The reasons donâ��t matter, just realize that THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE ENJOYING THINGS YOU DISAPPROVE OF. A scary thought I know, that nothing you do or say will influence another human beingâ��s actions.”

All i can say is Thank you JP.

Roosh judges people, and hes not particularly bright.

And Kona has got to be the stupidest dumb fuck to troll the net.

Some idiot said: “Ok, here are some reasons why it’s largely inappropriate to compare a whore with a regular girl.”

My response: You’re VERY naive.

Some idiot said:” 2) A whore doesn’t cook for you.”

My response: Most “regular girls” won’t either.

Some idiot said: “3) A whore doesn’t come by when you’re short on cash.”

My response: The typical Western woman will disappear when your money is gone. In reality, women in all societies are more attracted to money and power than anything else in a man. Most divorces happen because of financial strife, and women are the majority filers of divorce. Add 2+2.

Some idiot said: “4) You can’t bang a whore without a condom (unless you are one risky mofo)”

My response: And your dumb ass better not bang a “regular girl” without a condom either. FYI, “regular girls” carry disease as well, and we know for a fact that most disease cases recorded of women are not from prostitution. But this is just common sense, apparently you have none.

Some idiot said: “6) A whore is not going to pay for shit!”

My response: And most “regular girls” don’t either. In America, it’s expected that men pay for dates, and keep paying for everything throughout.

Some idiot said: “7) You can’t kiss a whore (well you can, but that’s nasty)”

My response: It might be nasty to kiss the “regular girl” too, because there is a good chance that’s she’s sucking random dicks that you know nothing about.

Interesting points raised throughout. Personally I’m of the view that each to his own. If gaming works for you, do it. If pros work for you, do that. Or both. Whatever it is. But please dont tell people that your (very limited) experiences are right for all time for all others. If that’s your view, then you are trying to sell something, but I’m not buying it.

As long as prostitution is done in a legal and consensual way, there is almost more honesty in it than in picking up a girl in a club where you are just buying her drinks and giving false impressions in order to get something physical.

Has anybody stopped to think that guys do more harm by having one nights? Women often get hurt or regret it afterwards, especially if they were drunk. At least when using a prostitute there is no emotional baggage, no awkwardness afterwards and no beer goggles.

Whether you have a one night stand or use a prostitute there is no intimacy either way. You’re just masturbating with a vagina! The only difference is that there are less complications when using a prostitute.

better with a girl than a prostitute

Hiring an hooker is not an alternative to game, it’s an alternative to getting sex.

Of course, there are men who have got enough game to get sex for free. More power to them. What about those men who still don’t? Actually, being able to pay for sex can make them more aloof when gaming women, because they know they can always go elsewhere to get their fix. It can even go beyond that, since you’ll begin considering whether that woman is worth the time you are investing in her: let’s say an hooker costs you 150$, then as soon as a woman is taking more than 150$ of your time, you bail out and that, as we know, can cause the woman to chase you.

Unless you are an very accomplished player, sex is free only if your time is worthless.

@kona: Every job is like that. There are employers and employees. Whenever you are paying for a service an employee is giving you, the employer gets a cut. And yes, some jobs sucks and people work in them only because they are desperate for money.

Regarding STDs, do not kid yourself: by being promiscuos, you are putting yourself at risk. And hookers who care about their health can actually be safer to bang than drunk sluts used to bang strangers.

If you can afford to frequently pay for sex, you can’t afford not to. Game is a blue collar sport. Wealthy/powerful men have no real use for game. The vagina river is already flowing in their direction. Trophy wives, pornstar goddesses, prostitutes, mistresses, harems etc… That’s all for wealthy men.

The rest of us average income guys better learn some game. Me, personally, direct game is my weapon of choice. I’m not creative, can’t memorize lines or jokes for shit, and my sense of humor is average at best. I dress well. I smile. I’m confident. I’m DIRECT. And fortunately for me, that shit works.

I’m semi-retired now, married to a 9, late 30s.

I’ve banged well over 1,000 non-pro women in my 15 year career. Mostly 6-8s, and probably about 20-30 9-10s.

Also banged about 300-500 pro girls. Don’t knock it, there’s nothing “wrong” with us, and I’m definitely not shy. I’m an alpha male type, and cold call sales for a living, which I approach the same way as I do banging chicks.

But, especially in south american country’s and eastern europe…why the heck would you waste your time not trying the pros, there is amazing quality.

There are some 8, 9, 10 level girls, that are what I call “low volume” hoes, and my favorite type, the “semi-pro”…Part regular girl, part ho, you meet her in a club, you bang her, and she tells you about how down she is financially, so you help her out with a few bucks…the return is huge.

In the Dominican republic, we’d bang on average about 3-4 girls a day, 1 non pro, 2-3 pros, and a semipro..it seems the more girls we had around, the more would come.

Forgot to mention the “model parties” we’d have in Eastern European countries. My local friends, usually jetset businessmen or other people with power, woudl arrange parties at hotel suites, private dining, etc., with a half dozen 8s and 9s..we’d have drinks with them, get drunk, and pick which ones we’d keep around. The next morning we’d leave them a hundred or two hundred euro and off we went…the next night they’d be around again…maybe we’d pay em, maybe we wouldn’t..but let me tell you, they treated us right…it wasn’t like going to a methwhore in the states who is all business…these girls liked gifts from rich guys (rich by local standards), and they deserved it!