In this clip I discuss muscles and how they are perceived in different countries….
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I was really scrawny and then got into a serious bodybuilding program with an excellent trainer. The confidence boost was tremendous. Any kind of serious fitness does this, I think, but lifting weights is the best way to feel powerful with women.
I have been doing the 5×5 recently. I’m normally very reserved but when I come out of the gym I’m all “Hey, baby”. The thing is I have gotten kind of fat being out of work for a long time and women definitely don’t like that.
In essence physical advantages are causing even more extreme outcomes. Men are increasingly categorized as all or nothing or winner take all. I don’t buy the fact that men are slowing down at 33. I’m the same age as you and I’m the exact description of the guy you are talking about. Check out Art Devany’s New evolution diet. Living example of how young can be even at 75
This is common sense, having muscle mean your fit.
Muscle is a plus….But keep in mind to much of a good thing is a bad thing, e.g. women breast.
I love big tits, but if she is 40 DD that is too much.
some times I like small breast. As long as it looks healthy.
So muscle is like breast to men. Healthy is the key and how it is shape.
I know for a fact women do not want a body builder, that is way to much.
Think Brad pitt from Troy, that is ideal.
Like 36 D is ideal.
I’ve always had to work really hard to get laid, and I defininetly got laid a lot because of persistance. When I hit 29 I started running & working out and I shredded down to 5% body fat. I was shocked at the effect. I was banging way more girls & they were hotter. I ruled the pool party scene, and holloween at the clubs was incredible because I would pick a costume that showed my abs and I felt like a rock star the way all the hottest girls would look at me and flirt with me. I landed a model that you see on big posterboard ads hanging in the windows at the mall, been with her for years now.
Glad to see video posts have become more frequent!
Muscle is gonna help most time alas Roosh failed to mention in the video the key factor which tends to be GEORGRAPHY! If one is from the northeast US or northern europe there are too few opportunities to show off one’s look and muscles while the reverse is true in the south, Miami being the best example or South Cali.
While I have 17″ arms, behind a sweater i just look like a typical stocky wrestler/football player and doesn’t help with compliments. Some of my female acquitances have even asked me if “i gained weight” not realizing that its been mostly functional muscle weight :(
Hey Roosh, working with heavy ass barbells must callus the shit out of your hands over time, even with gloves
Have you had any problems with girls complaining about rough hands?
It’s something I’ve wondered about as I start to lift heavier
[Roosh: They haven't complained but who cares if they do. If they want a delicate man they can hit the gay bar. Men shouldn't have pretty hands. It's like the college wrestlers who have cauliflower ears. It's a sign of manliness.]
Do muscles matter? Yes, but not in the way a lot of men think. It’s more about hitting that sweet spot where your upper body mass and waist are within ideal ratios (1.5-1.62), and it correlates with your height. Being athletic or having low body fat levels is good because you won’t have to do much cardio if any, allowing more time for scultping aesthetic details like calves,* pecs and abs.
It’s also the case with women, except men are subconciously attracted to women with an ideal hip to waist ratios, less overall muscle mass and greater bodyfat levels than men.
Regular yoga/stretching is also extremely helpful for body building, I believe. For tons of external and internal reasons. I always stretch my entire body for 45-60 mins after workouts and sometimes on off days. It makes your muscles look more ripped and symmetrical while speeding up recovery and stimulating fuller growth.
Absolutely agree with Roosh: Western women are becoming more like men, basing their choice of men on how “hot” the guy looks.
Problem is, why the fuck would a “hot” guy sleep with these land whales (aka American women)?
Seems like a recipe for unhappiness, for both men and women.
Roosh, you looked pretty stacked. But it is so true, women expect some jacked guy to come and magically want them. Yet, it wasn’t until I started working out till I realized how huge the Jeresy Shore tools are. TV really numbs perception.
I’m naturally tall and slender, but somehow I put up as much weight as Golds Gym roidheads. Girl’s def notice if you are in shape – the cherry on top. Funny, how girls don’t seem to think the same rules of keeping fit appplies to them…
Men: In the animal kingdom, the female lioness chooses to mate with the most dominate male. They choose to mate with the male that would provide the highest chance of fertility. Muscle=fertility in the animal kingdom. The male lion kills the weaker lion and gets the females….
I find it funny how guys who have only been lifting for a few months are talking about the long term and far reaching effects of muscle building like they’ve actually experienced them. Guys. It will be two or three years before you can tout a real body transformation as a result of training. Might be even longer if your genetics are skewed towards endo or ecto morphisms.
What you experience in the first year or first few months as far as confidence goes is largely psychological. You won’t get the more tangible results of mature inner confidence until years down the line.
I disagree with the first few months of weightlifting. That is actually the greatest transformation, your first year. When your whole life you have been a lazy sack of shit that has puny muscles the first year you make gains like crazy, even with shitty technique.
It’s after the first year that the gains become like drinking water from a firehose and you have to know what you doing and train with dedication.
I think what you are referring to is the amount of time it takes to get ‘jacked’. That is definitely many years, but year one you go from marshmellow to decent in shape guy. It’s quite a transformation even though to gym rats it’s nothing.
I think this goes back to the bell curve – 20/80 principle. Just as women only want the top 20 percent of men, I believe this applies to many areas of life as well. Men will only recognize the top 20 percent of body types are ‘ripped’ or ‘jacked’. We don’t reward mediocracy. Roosh also mentioned this in the video when it gets lumped in with marshmellows even though he is in great shape with moderate musclarity.
Whats up dude, great post and thanks for sharing. You’re spot on about how working out- espcially the workouts which focus on the core muscle groups- increase T-levels and overall horniness(as well as overall life enjoyment). Learning and then applying this info changed a lot of things for the better for me.
But I wouldnt go so far as to equate western women becoming more masculine with them becoming more visual-oriented. I live in Shanghai now, and have previously spent two years in Korea as well as 6 months in Thailand. And I can tell you without a doubt that the femininity of these women easily surpasses most western as well as most Eastern European women(also lived in Romania as a peace corps volunteer). I can also tell you without a doubt that many of these pretty, young things make it very clear to me that their attraction to me has a lot to do with my physical size and fitness(either before, after, and often times while im fucking them).
At the end of the day though, as with everything else, being fit and having a girl walk up and compliment a man with muscles(as they have done to your friend)can only get you so far, especially with top quality girls. If you can’t use that opener as a pivot to effectively seduce and pick up the girl(i.e. have game) then you and your muscles will be left alone with your sausage in your hand while that chick is somewhere getting boned by that 5ft 9inch skinny dude who gamed her panties off.
I´m with Aleph. Most guys are DYEL (Dou You even lift?) – Mode with a (T)-shirt on. So she won´t see Your abs or whatever until You´re naked.
And regarding what No. 8, Brandon, stated: the ideal shoulder:waist ratio is 1.5-1.62. It takes some time to get there.
Agreed with the ratio thing. Handstand push-ups, my personal favorite. Not nearly as hard to do as one might think, either.
Also Roosh, if you fall in the category of ‘can’t notice I’m big if I have a shirt on’, then we’re mostly all screwed.
One more point since I am a workout fanatic, you should also work out for basic health and self defense.
I have about 5-6 friends on high blood pressure med’s at age 30….that is rediculous…
Roosh banned my account from his forum. I was not disrespecting anyone – merely sharing ideas that differed from his.
[Roosh: The forum moderator banned you, rightfully so. You argue worse than a woman.]
Exercise is good, but some of you guys really over do it. Waist/shoulder ratio? Fuck off. As long as the guy is not a total stick or lard of fat, he can get decent women. Work out, exercise, feel good about yourself, but be a man and don’t overdo the visuals the way a woman does.
each their own.
There is just something wrong about a man over analyzing his body like a woman for the purpose of aesthetic appeal. Comparing big muscles to lions in the animal kingdom? Are you guys serious? By that logic, true alpha males make the most money because they’re better providers. We all know they don’t get the most pussy. If anything, I exercise (lacrosse/lifting) for the purpose of competition and power. Looking good from it is a side effect, not the goal.
Instead of worrying about a little patch of fat on the side of our hips, I would worry about following my passions, career and hobbies.
Beginner gains won’t get you “jacked.” You don’t get to an appreciable level of muscularity (unless you’re naturally muscular) until about year 2 or 3 and after a few months of fat cutting, no less.
On the subject of 20/80, I’d say it’s gotten to the level in America where women are only willing to fuck the top 10% in any given venue. Sometimes only the top 5% if they’re really delusional and it’s a real cockfest.
The point is, you’re not going to outdo the top 10% after a year of lifting. The top 10% is the guys who were the superlative high school athletes, natural mesomorphs, and other guys who lift AND take steroids.
Which brings me to another point: you can circumvent all that pesky waiting by injecting steroids or taking prohormones, although I don’t advocate their use and will never use them. Most of the jacked dudes you see at clubs, the bouncers, and almost anybody else who’s “jacked,” is on steroids. Most guys don’t have the patience or discipline for natural bodybuilding.
By the way, the above stuff is talking about ONS culture. You can still work social circles and maybe even day game, but if you’re interested in an American ONS, you need a combination of good genetics and hard work in the gym to make it work for you.
Getting a ONS is a lot more than looking like a cute boytoy for the girl to enjoy. If what you’re saying is the case, then this blog and roissy should focus solely on european/latino girls and have a link to bodybuilding.com for american girls.
This is my point: men are more visual than women. Explains why gay men love the gym. women are more emotional and attracted to power (preferably a combination of sports leadership and a solid passion or career) with a spattering of high-T features on the side, like a square jaw, height and muscles. But if you spend every waking hour trying to look like an abercrombie model and working minimum wage and never read a book, you’ll be used by a high status, feminist woman – shifting the power dynamic completely.
You should see the look on a younger woman’s face when I drive her to my paid off townhouse. She looks in awe around the house, realizing inside that she’s a big girl now, away from daddy’s protection and in the domain of a powerful man.
And during sex, she knows that she is just one of my possessions, as I squeeze her in my bed, under my blankets, in my house. She knows I am using her for my enjoyment, not the other way around. That’s called power.
It’s an incredible feeling, and beats any natty light smelling frathouse fuck I’ve had two years ago. The power dynamic is in my favor now.
you mad bro?
I certainly enjoy lifting. There’s nothing like a huge deadlift or having squat legs after personal best.
I also absolutely feel a surge of testosterone and assetiveness after lifting weights.
However, bodybuilding, as in staring at yourself shaved, tanned and roided in the mirror is borderline. So is watching other roided out men in speedos on a stage. Women are not attracted to the roid physique except perhaps only in America where roid-freaks are so common in sports and cinema.
Take a look at the Mr. Universe that Sean Connery was in. That is what you can get to without using drugs and that is the physique that women find most attractive.
What are the negatives to working out?? Nothing…That should answer your questions.
Old people get a free pass in this country. At 70 you should be able to walk up stairs, touch your toes, and still run around…
This blog is basically about hooking up with European and Latin American women.
I feel one of the flaws of Roissy’s blog is that he doesn’t address intra-male competition nearly enough to help people trying to navigate the mating market. His writings will aid you immensely in isolation circumstances or in scenarios where all you need to do is not fuck up.
Fact of the matter is: any venue where hook ups are common is going to be a competitive atmosphere among the men. Girls looking for or are susceptible to involvement in a ONS are looking to sate a primal urge to get their pussies filled with cock. This means she’s going to be responding to primitive stimuli like muscularity, height, and dominant behaviors. She’s less likely interested in your philosophical insights, intelligence, and income. Besides, guys can easily fake high status by buying the right clothes, a watch, and paying for a $20 haircut.
If you’re at a bar in the West, then there’s a 99% chance it’s a cockfest and the women have suitors throwing themselves at them left and right. She’s in a loud atmosphere and drunk. She’s going to pick the best-looking dude who’s available to her, and that’s just how it is. Sorry if that irks you, but once you realize that Game is only one facet of a wide spectrum of attributes that women find attractive, the more well-rounded of a player you’ll be.
There’s been scenarios where I’ve been on the winning and losing end of that game. I’ve outright robbed dudes from girls, and I’ve had girls tell me to fuck off in lieu of a more attractive guy dropping in onto the scene. All you can do is suck it up and improve yourself.
That’s just the nature of the beast. I agree with most of what you said. It depends on where you go. Disagree with your opinion on intelligence
When I go to a college bar, it’s extremely primal. I wear tight shirts, and be more outspoken and direct. But I don’t frequent those places anymore. Where I go, the women can tell right away if you never opened a book before.
If you happen to be good looking and dumb in the clubs I frequent, boy will they take advantage of you. And you may be thinking, so what? a lay is a lay. Not true when the power dynamic is so in their favor. I don’t know if you’ve experienced this before, but it’s a very strange feeling when a man is used like that, despite her being in a helpless position between my thighs. Regardless of how good the sex was, something eats inside of you if you don’t physically AND MENTALLY dominate your woman. At the end of the day, that smirk on her face will come out and she will talk about how she had a great lay with her friends – just like how we men do after we bang a hot chick.
It shouldn’t work like that. Men should have a little more control.
I am a big dude, I can relate to your concept about women liking big muscles in the USA, but in Europe I had a ridiculously sexy friend of mine compliment my “body of a greek god” while simultaneously telling me she likes guys built more like you(Roosh)!
I think it is quasi cultural, but to be outside of the gym and just be heavy is almost acceptable no where!
Can you take your shirt off in your videos?
I’m a big proponent if going for functional fitness, rather than aesthetics. If you can run a sub 11 sec 100 m, dunk a basketball, and do 20 pull ups, the aesthetics will work themselves out. Women I know all find the athletic look (looking like you’re going to be a problem out on the field/court) much more attractive than the gym rat look. In fact, my athlete friends and I have a term for this, ‘pretty boy swole’. It’s when someone has big looking muscles, but they still look soft (in the sense that their slow ass would still get knocked the fuck out).
Despite virtually every woman complaining about ‘men’s impossible beauty standards’ it is in fact women who have always had far more stringent and static physical standards for an idealized masculine physique.
“All one need do is search the vast variety of porn available catering to the physical attributes that men will fetishize. Big boobs, small boobs, big ass, small ass, every hair color of the rainbow, shaved snatch, hairy snatch, teen girls to MILFs and older, tan, pale, ultra-thin to the ubiquitous BBWs (Big Beautiful women). Ladies, name the physical attribute(s), and there’s a fan-group just waiting to bang you. Rule 34 was never more provable than in men’s willingness to fuck damn near any physical demographic of women – just ask the female midgets catering to that fetish of porn.
On the other hand, from a purely physical perspective, it’s women’s idealized masculine form that hasn’t changed in millennia. While there may have been a rubenesque period when men loved the fatties of the 1600′s, no such era ever existed for women’s physical preferences. The classic broad chest, wide shoulders, six-pack abs and squared jaws of greco-roman athleticism are still the idealized male form that has graced EVERY romance novel cover in existence.
I’m still waiting for someone to post me a link for a dating site that caters exclusively to women’s fetish of BBMs – average to good looking, fit women specifically looking overweight men. Executive Introductions caters to women seeking affluent, influential men, but women just looking for overweight men, that site doesn’t exist.”
I like #9′s comment. I think stretching is underrated, not only for looks but also functionality of strength and power.
I’d rather be too big then too small. It’s easier to lose then gain, at least for me, I’m thin.
What about a big meaty LOVE MUSCLE? :-)
Women definitely notice guys that appear to be in shape, even if they don’t see bulging muscles through your clothes. It also depends on how you dress. Do you wear clothes that fit properly? If you have a lean, athletic, defined build, but aren’t bulging, you’ll still be noticed if you wear tailored-looking dress shirts, and if your suit is taken in in the right places. I’ve always been in shape and somewhat defined. It isn’t always obvious, but I’ve had women feel my arm to see what’s under my sleeves. It doesn’t have to be about putting years in at the gym to get jacked so that it’s super-obvious that you have muscle. Just put in the work to get in the the best shape you can be in, or just better than you have been (namely, getting those early gains that some others mentioned in their posts), and you’ll carry yourself better, which will translate.
Totally agree with you Roosh. I’ve been working out for 10 years and the only girls I’ve been cold approached by in the last few years were at least 8′s. Looks matter.
“Rockhardedness”….I will start using it from now on…
PS. I like when a little Rooshy personality shows in a video with some clever funny sprinkled in between…definitely authentic Roosh…engaging
Of course its self-delusional to believe that muscles doesn’t matter. Similarly its self-delusional to ignore height. I’m a skinny, tall guy, and I’m absolutely convinced that is as good as being a muscular average/slightly-below average guy. The girl I’m presently dating is a good example of that, when I picked her up she was talking to my jacked, but 11 cm shorter friend (I don’t usually steal girls from my friends btw, I was just wasted). She later told me he looked so small next to me.
The ratio everybody is talking about is The Golden ratio, 1:1.618. Math’s way of giving your viewer the highest probable chance of finding you visually pleasing. Thanks, nerds.
It’s actually not just Delt width:Waist width however, it’s better to say Constant (joint) : Variable (muscle). The closer to the ratio you are, the better the chance others will find you visually pleasing.
So Wrist:Forearm, Elbow:Bicep, Waist:QUADS(you had better be squatting, pussies. Looking at you squat rack curlers)
So in other words, my 20″ arms would look ridiculous and way off ratio if I was 5’4″ and had the joints of a short man. But being 6’3″ my arms tend to over power my chest instead.
I actually use this exact ratio when game planning my training, prioritizing my weaknesses. Arnold also did it, Frank Zane was a huge proprietor of symmetry over size.
So do muscles matter? Yes. A lot. But only in relation to your own measurements. Not everybody needs to be freaky fuckin huge to pull ass, trackin?