Eastern European Women Become More Masculine In America

Previously I have written how Western culture—particularly American—is toxic to women, causing them to be more masculine. I have stumbled on a research paper written a few years ago that matches my conclusions.

East European Women and the Battle of the Sexes in American Culture (PDF) interviews Eastern European women who have immigrated to the United States. Let’s begin with an EE woman sharing her views on gender roles:

I won’t refuse to be a woman in any way. On the contrary, I insist to be treated in a certain way, and I think I deserve it. You cannot have a man walking next to me and I’m carrying something heavy, and he comes and asks me to carry it and I would say, “No, I’ll carry it, because you know, I wanna show you that I’m as strong as you.” Give me a break! Of course he will carry it. He is three hundred pounds more than me, he has muscles… And if he comes, boy I appreciate it! (Bulgaria, age 35, 6 years in the US).

Only when I got to EE have I begun opening doors for women and helping them put on their coats. If I did this in America I’d be deemed a weak man not worthy of sex, but in EE this is a prerequisite to getting sex. Being chivalrous actually helps me get laid.

Giving compliments to EE girls (even generic ones like “You have a nice smile”) go a long way into winning their hearts and vaginas:

Many women also miss compliments about their physical appearance, which are common and are not regarded as sexist in Eastern European.

In America, a compliment is sexual harassment. You’re a creep who deserves to be fired. You can’t say nice things about her hair, face, or clothing. Even if you don’t work with her, such a compliment will close her vagina faster than a Venus fly trap.

East European women feel that in the US gender lines are blurred and the behaviors of men and women are very similar to each other. They are not always able to distinguish between men and women based on appearance, manners, or conversation.

Women acting like men and men acting like women. Denmark called—they want their Jante Law back!

The reason you should not listen to American women talking about “gender roles” is that they are lacking in clear gender. Would you ask a chicken how it’s like to be a cow? You could, but you’d get a better answer if you ask the cow. To find out the characteristics of a woman—a real woman— you have to ask one. They exist in South America, Eastern Europe, and Southeast Asia, in case you’re wondering. Some men tell me that real American women exist in rural Southern areas, but I have not been able to confirm this.

Just because a human being has a vagina, it doesn’t mean she knows what a woman is, just like how the majority of American men have no idea what it’s like to be a man, assuming we define a man as someone who doesn’t sell out his gender and even himself for a chance at mediocre pussy.

What does American culture do to relationships? Let’s have a look:

Gender-neutral treatment “sterilizes” relationships between male and female colleagues, and as a result East Europeans often lose interest in interactions with American colleagues of the other sex.

If EE women have maintained what it means to be a normal human female, which is what I argue, and they are unable to have meaningful relationships with Americans, that means that Americans are sterile humans. The American culture is dehumanizing, emasculating, and defeminizing.

Here’s what the women think of your countrymen:

EE women perceive American men as less masculine than men in Eastern Europe.

And also:

“That’s why it’s hard for me to date [an American man], because I feel I have to be the man of the relationship.”

American men have become so pussified that the most feminine women in the world feel like men when dating them. In other words, American men act like women. And how do EE women view American women?

EE women perceive American women as more assertive than they are, and they feel that American women “try to be like men,” “boss men around” (Albania, age 22), “try to dominate a lot,” “dress like men” (Bulgaria, age 35), and “expect to be treated the same way as guys” (Hungary, age 23).

American men who travel think American women are masculine. EE women think American women are masculine. How long will it take for these masculine women to put mirrors up to their man jaw and realize what they’ve become?

Here’s another statement that echoes my thoughts:

Participants believe that promoting gender equality means giving up women’s femininity.

Whenever I bring up the topic of Eastern European women, the first thing an American woman will do is say they are eternally dominated by horrible men, that I’m personally taking advantage of them by being a sex tourist who preys on impoverished women that have no free will. They barely stop short of saying that most EE women are sex slaves. This is despite the fact that they’ve never stepped foot into Eastern Europe. What they’re implying is that EE women are stupid and blind to see the heavenly light that is gender androgyny, of women acting like men. The study addresses this:

EE women are repeatedly told that they are oppressed by men even if they do not feel that way, and they are reproached for their acceptance of politeness from men.

American women are ragging on EE women for accepting compliments and flirtations instead of marching into the Human Resources office and filing a nasty complaint. American women are so combative they even get into arguments with EE women:

“[The American woman] implied that I didn’t understand what American feminism was about. I think I perfectly understand. And the other thing that struck me was her aggressive attitude. We weren’t discussing at a point. She was patronizing. She was telling me that I don’t understand. And I think I do understand. And I backed up, and I thought it was not worth it, because she wasn’t listening to me.”

We have a name for that: the rationalization hamster. She held onto a view that was brainwashed into her from studying a useless major in college and now refuses to change it no matter what. She is even unable to discuss it like a normal adult. While women are not known to use logic like men, I can tell you from personal experience that EE women are much less blind to opposing evidence. An American woman would rather get knifed in her vagina than change her mind concerning gender issues.

I have claimed that foreign women will become less sensual and feminine after living in the United States. The paper confirms this:

As a result the women become cautious around American men and avoid the use of touch during conversation with men entirely…

They seek to avoid cultural misunderstandings by becoming more gender-neutral and more impersonal. One woman from Belarus describes checking the language of her emails five times before she sends them to American men in order to make sure that she does not sound too familiar, because earlier someone broke off contact with her, possibly for this reason. They also avoid touch, gender specific topics in conversation, and sometimes they avoid interacting with American men altogether.

So she touches less, treats all men like coworkers, and withdraws from meaningful interactions. Sound familiar? Do you think you’d be more or less happy interacting with a woman who has these frigid traits? But wait, there’s more:

Because people behave in a gender-neutral way in most public interactions in America, East European women feel that part of their feminine identity is invisible or has to be hidden. They dress is a more informal and less feminine way when they are with Americans, because when they do dress and behave “like an East European women,” other around them seem intimidated and interact with them less.

EE women have no choice but to dress less like a woman so that haters don’t try to isolate her. The reason is because American women don’t want to compete with a woman who, you know, looks like a woman. Even though American women know deep down inside that men like feminine women with long hair, heels, sexy clothing, and pleasing attitudes, they refuse to act that way because they’re lazy, entitled, and want to be valued solely for their hamster brain. Today’s American woman rather masculinize the entire culture of women by shaming feminine behavior and spreading fat-is-healthy propaganda than grow out her goddamn hair.

“I cannot appear in a way that I really am, naturally, because the expectation that you shouldn’t be too personal and you shouldn’t be too feminine.”

Femininity is punished in America, and all those women who step inside its borders will transform, ever so gradually, to men. The sad part is that this effect is only partly reversible. Whenever I meet an EE girl who acts masculine, I ask her if she has lived in America or Britain. Most of the time, the answer is yes. Even once back in her homeland, she keeps a lot of masculine habits. She was been infected with a virus that has no immediate cure.

In America, you are considered a slave if you go out of your way to please men. EE women don’t feel that way:

“I enjoy certain activities. Why I enjoy them, I don’t know. Their assumption is that if I do cooking every day, I necessarily do it because I’m pressured by my husband. On the contrary, I enjoy to cook for him, and my favorite part of the day is when I serve the meal and we sit next to each other and we talk. I’m not pushed to do it, I’m not pressured to do it, I do it with pleasure, and I don’t want to give it up.”

It’s hard to imagine an American woman cooking for her man every night, let alone once a week.

The kicker is that this paper was written in 2004. Would you say that in the past decade American women have become more or less masculine? Have their attitudes gotten better or worse? If anything, this paper grossly underestimates the damaging effects that American culture does to women.

I’m not happy that we let the feminists and the elite de-feminize women and make them more like men. But for every action there is a reaction, and they are getting their reaction—their pimp slap—right now, of growing numbers of men who refuse to go along with the gender equality bullshit of putting up with women who don’t act like women. We will shame women who act like men. We will make fun of fat whales. We will punish women who have masculine behaviors. They changed the culture, now it’s our turn to do the same.

Read Next: Western Culture Poisons Women

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  • http://claritaslux.com/girls/ Mark

    Take Alice out of wonderland and you get just a normal American gal in a white dress. The key is to marry one who has an internal moral compass in place and it will not happen.

  • Zorro

    As always Roosh, you are epicness personified.

  • Winston Churchill

    I know for a fact that at least 104% of your readers entertain the notion of packing a bag and “rooshing” around the world for a while, or maybe permanently.

    Could we maybe see a post on what it would cost to live the lifestyle we’ve grown familiar with on this blog? (Excluding extras like what you may or may not spend on cocaine and beard care products. Just a rough estimate of the basics, food, shelter, flights etc.)

    I for one would be very interested, and I don’t think I’m alone in that.

  • Michael

    My experience tells me that the ‘rural’ rule could be applied all over the US. However, although it is more probable to find real women in rural parts of our country, not all of them will be ‘real women’ and probably not even a majority.

    I met a real woman this weekend. She’s from a small Wisconsin town and is only 18. Caveat: Though her personality is very feminine, she’s still in HS so she wears hoodies and skater shoes. If I can get her to put on a little black dress and some heels she’d be excellent girlfriend material.

  • slumlord

    The scales fell off my eyes in 2006.

    Once you’ve been to Eastern Europe everything else is shit.

    There was a great pushback after the fall of communism which preached gender neutrality. Women wanted to be feminine again. I remember a conversation with one of my friends there who remarked how she liked the fact that men looked at her. She didn’t mind being objectified.

    And the fact that Eastern European men view Western men as wusses is equally true.

  • Anonymous

    It’s not the feminists who punish femininity in America. It’s the men.

  • http://chancebradley.wordpress.com/ Chance

    While on a little Spanish island I met a girl who was from the Czech Republic. Was she the hottest girl I have ever been with? No, but still cute. The underlying attraction that I felt to her was undoubtedly due to her femininity.

    Great blog Roosh-

    I think the only thing us alphas can do is reward the feminine women that we come into contact with; and to do so in public in front of the she-man cows.

    Girls in sweatpants and cut-off shirts get no attention from this guy, and they shouldn’t from you either. Ball is in our court boys…

  • Moose

    true, so true. I think honestly it’s ramped up massively in the past ten years. Maybe it’s because I was a kid in the 90s but it feels like there’s been a tangible increase in the bitchiness of women. Since the economy tanked, at least in my experience the bitch-factor has skyrocketed and even the most loyal betas are getting pretty fed up (assuming they haven’t simply left the dating market entirely). The most masculine and manly occupations–construction, manufacturing, the traditional “man jobs”–were hit and aren’t coming back. Combined with high youth unemployment and rising college costs that’s going to spell a backlash.

  • http://ts156@livejournal TS156

    There has been a recent influx of EE women into the UK and they are certainly more feminime. I have yet to meet overweight EE girl and I think the reason they all stay in good shape is that they seem to have a strong work ethic, and none of the entitlement complex.

  • http://chancebradley.wordpress.com/ Chance

    Preach it Moose! Good insight brother! -Chance

  • (R)Evoluzione

    Roosh, I found this post especially interesting because it essentially makes conscious the relatively unconscious process that American women go through, continuously.

    American chicks do this more or less mindlessly, going along with the status quo. Younger American chicks have really never known anything else.

    This is interesting because EE women are conscious of something else, and they complain, they give voice to the bullshit that is American feminism/cultural marxism.

  • Anonymous

    The more i internalize Game, the more i understand why it works for western girls.

    It’s not just the compliments that cause havoc, but just a simple and innocent thing as looking at them causes them to act disinterested and disgusted.

    So what’s a man to do? It’s obvious compliments and looking with interest has failed.

    Over time, as my cockiness and indifference has developed and the more i’ve learned to behave this way with western women, the more they’re responding positively towards me.

    It seems the more outspoken, open and unapologetic i am with my surroundings, the more attracted they are towards me. Maybe this is how we’re meant to behave as men after all. If this is what will cause balance between the sexes, then so be it.

    [Roosh: As long as you understand that your success with American women will preclude you from success with EE feminine women. The answer is to consciously use different game depending on your target instead of having a default one-size-fits-all model.]

  • Plug

    This article reminds me too much of Roissy.

  • Stud

    “I’m not happy that we let the feminists and the elite de-feminize women and make them more like men. But for every action there is a reaction, and they are getting their reaction—their pimp slap—right now, of growing numbers of men who refuse to go along with the gender equality bullshit of putting up with women who don’t act like women. We will shame women who act like men. We will make fun of fat whales. We will punish women who have masculine behaviors. They changed the culture, now it’s our turn to do the same.”

    Respectfully, WRONG.

    Until the lawmakers stop passing all kinds of fucked up legislation that caters to the feminist demands we are screwed. Time for another civil war.

  • Soup

    I’ve got a theory that with the rise of weapons that don’t require physical strength, we get the rise of feminism.

    This is because even an old lady can fire a gun that can kill, and a child can press button that could fire nuclear bomb.

    Throughout the greater part of humanity, most weapons required more masculine physical traits in order to be used to the greatest effect.

  • Anonymous

    Great article well said and very poignant Roosh. Getting peer-reviewed on their ass and beating the feminist diatribe at her own agenda – brilliant work keep it up.

  • redacted

    I can’t imagine it’s gotten better.

    Though we cannot make systemic changes, we can each as men realize that while the workplace is just a minefield, outside of that it is incumbent upon us to be the men that these women – the cows, not the chickens – want. I have no special love for EE,but I fully agree that they are far more in touch with what femininity is.

    There are two kinds of these ‘masculinized’ American women. The ones that just use it as a way to filter the piece of shit man-boys whose balls haven’t dropped yet (though they’re already 40 and balding…) and those who are just rebels without a cause.

    A good firm man who’s in touch with himself and his world around him can cure this problem, one woman at a time. The good news is that 95% of American men have no chance of propagating good genes; they’re the dregs, and they’ll end up with the dregs. Genetics used to be capable of handling this FOR us, but now we’ve fucked it up because the people most likely to have sex are least likely to reproduce. Ergo, nonalpha genetics are far more likely to propagate than alpha genetics.

    I’m no scientist, but when we see the most fit and sexual men having copious sex with top- tier women and NOT reproducing, our species is in trouble.

    The solution is simple: women need to be OK with cheating. Men need to either step up or accept that they need to raise the children of the men who fucked their wife.

    evolution is much more clever than any of us. it’ll find a way.

  • That Lithuanian guy

    Think this:

    Immigrants from EE are perceived as low-status servile trash in Western Europe and USA, therefore a guy born and bred in USA or Western Europe has a higher social value/standing/whatever in EE and is more likely to bang a girl there. You are the guy they saw on TV – simple as that :) I dont think your game works that good in Italy or Spain, because girls there respect their identity and don’t want to leave their countries (contrary to most impoverished EE girls). Banging some easy girls from EE may be a great fun, but you definitely overvalue their super abilities and femininity.

    – Lean body (=eats once a day, because cannot afford eating more). Going to a gym is not that common here as it is in WE.
    – Likes to cook (cannot afford restaurants unless paid by a nice guy)
    – Takes your compliments (however you will come off as a nice guy unless you are a foreigner)
    – Language barrier. She will understand 300+ of your basic words and none of your Britishisms/Americanisms, you will apppear much much smarter/interesting and then you are.

    Italian and Spanish (European) girls are much more feminine. Game does work in EE though.

  • Anonymous

    My Doctor is from eastern Europe and she now works in Canada. This Dr. is the most feminine lady I know. She is not the greatest looking woman but she consistently passes the boner test. And she passes strictly because of her femininity.

  • jajamaja

    Confirmation bias much, roosh? you’re a retard if you think a study based on a ridiculously small sample of 9 women means anything.

    Women are the same wherever you go, the only difference is economic.

  • 100% true

    and you should add: elsewhere TOO! It seems like the migration changes their attitudes, which in part is normal cause they have to mimic more masculine behavior (survival impulse) when going through tougher periods

  • http://www.TheReturnOfMen.com George Glory

    Top quality stuff. Hammer clean on nail head.

  • http://flyfreshandyoung.wordpress.com FFY

    Shamed into manliness by the sisterhood. Such a tragedy. The herd mentality run rampant.

    People who think there may be a reversal in the future forget how much power “popular opinion” and the women on top have over average chicks, who then shame other girls to conform.

  • Jordan

    Another great post Roosh! I leave for Medellin on Wednesday. Can’t wait! My extremely feminine paisa girlfriend will be waiting for me at the airport. I’m thinking of bringing her here. This post is giving me second thoughts. If she were to change her feminine ways and become americanized, i’d probably have to kill myself.

  • Garth

    Fact is despite being more “feminine” EE skanks are still jaded, self righteous princesses who will expect you buy her the Hermitage Museum. I say leave ’em to their back alley coat hanger abortions.

  • Murray

    Roosh im starting to wonder, do you have a “Game Block” or an “anti feminist” block or what is it ? or perhaps those are somehow overlapping ?

  • Murray

    @15 Soup
    YOur rite, just, you still need men to invent those weapons. Even a monkey could fire them though, ur right.

  • Rael

    Roosh seems to be hung up on 1950s fashion. Personally, I couldn’t care less about skirts and hi heels.

    I enjoy seeing women in tribal wear with tatoos & various special areas shaved & pierced. I see that all the time here in the USA.

    Like these:


    Have those styles made their way to Eastern Europe, I wonder?

  • Danish

    I’ve read you block about danish women..I’ll put in my ten cent in the form of “whats wrong with..”.

    Whats wrong with danish women

    1) They have by way of telepathy (they dont talk about this) decided that men are inferior and should be given no attention whatsoever. Giving any attention towards men is prohibited.
    I’m not joking. If you walk up against a Danish Girl on the street and you try to eye contact her, she will almost always look 45 degrees to her left or right. Like , “omg, what an interresting peace of paper I just saw there, 45 degrees to my right”. They are like that. Can only receive, not give. It hurts them as well, but they would rather die or end up old and alone that to give any attention to the worthless species of man. Dont underestimate that: they will REALLY do that.
    2) IF you are a good looking man, they will shun you. Who do you think you are ?
    The best thing for a Danish Women is if you end up a 45 year old male without family or children. She will secretly gloat over this. Feminism worked.
    3) If you are an ugly man, or just average, they will shun you. They will look at you and secretly gloat.

    4) Talking to a Danish Girl is mostly one way traffic. She will never try to ease the conversation, it’s all on you. Anything else would be like admitting your a worthy human being.

    5) A man must never date women under his age. 2-4 years is maximum limit. Everything else is pedophilia. Thats why you see so many guys 20+ with women 30+..
    6) Women 35-45 are wonderful independent accomplished beings when they have no kids or family..they are allowed to date men in their twenties, but not the other way around. They will not allow you your one biological advantage, rather they will try to make it their own.

    To meet a woman here you need to be the perfect age beta male..between 20-25, dressed up in black, most likely wearing a black hut gym suit and leather jacket, very smooth talking, never about what YOU want, but perhaps something about how the BZ movement is going (your pro that). You should be on welfare and against all normal society values like family and home. You shouldnt like your parents as well.
    And never mind having a real job. That will make you a loser.

  • doclove

    @ 18 That Lithuanian Guy
    You speak the truth. The rest of the Gentlemen here need to learn that women will try to immigrate to the West for a better life. As their lives improve in Eastern Europe and the effects of American or Western feminization come into their culture, they will be ruined like American and other Western women. Poverty and danger make women seek men for provision and protection. I’m an American Army veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan, and I can tell you feminism is less prevelent in Afghanistan because Afghanistan is much more poor and even more dangerous than Iraq. For as much as any Iraqi would improve the quality of their lives in many respects by moving to the USA, Afghans would improve their quality of lives by just as much in the same respects as moving to Iraq.

    When women are well provisioned for and protected by the government or the government forcing individual men to do this through welfare, child support and alimony then you will see the real nature of women come out. South Korean women can get their own jobs and be supported by men when they divorce them through child support, and the divorce rate is 45% with women initiating the divorce 65% of the time. Welfare is limited there though. When I was there, all men said South Korean Women were more feminine than American and Canadian women. However the divorce rate between Korean women and foreign men was 55% which is more than the 50% American divorce rate. A White American man has less chance of divorce with a born and raised Asian-American woman than a born and raised Korean woman as the White American man and Asian American woman divorce rate is among the lowest in the country.

  • Anon

    Web search: “the gun is civilization”

  • http://www.anonymous.com AnonyFem

    Hey Roosh,
    I am a sexy female who started reading PUA blogs circa 2006. Back then I was very masculine and could not handle male attention (stemming from when my close group of male friends almost raped me because I wore a skirt one day, when they were used to NOT seeing my legs. I almost arranged for them to be killed).

    Anyway, after reading your blog (and that of woman-hater Heartiste/Roissy etc.), I’ve become a convert. Currently I am the ONLY female in my department who regularly skirts, dresses, heels AND keep my hair long. I used to hate cooking for men before, but now see it as a way of showing love. I smile a lot more now, and men always fall over themselves trying to open doors for me, stop their cars so I can cross the road, offer to carry heavy things for me, give me compliments about my hair, beauty etc.

    And I always smile, graciously accept it and say a big thank you.

    Quite frankly, I had no idea how masculine I had become until I read your blog. I have now permanently locked away all my jeans and trousers/pants away and make the effort to SHAVE or wax (dammit) so I can wear dresses and skirts all year round, even in the dead of winter when most women prefer to cover up and turn into hair monsters.

    You’ve made me a happier woman Roosh. And the men I interact with are happier for it. Who doesn’t like seeing a pretty face at work everyday, even if you don’t have any sexual interest in them? It’s like admiring a beautiful flower, not something sexual.

    Thanks man. Your hatred of masculine women made me see the light! I am now trying to convert my female colleague, although she thinks my mannerism is too “girly” and “vain”. I think she believes she gets more ‘respect’ from the men by looking like them.

    Keep up the re-education of mankind Roosh.

    A female fan.

  • Tampa

    I think we talk way to much about feminism. It’s alright to kick the deal around with respect to long term relationship management, but honestly I don’t’ really give a shit about it. In fact I would like a lot more posts on the issue of long term relationship management since just about every guy who reads this blog has had his ass handed to him by a woman.

    I want to talk about how to manage the attitude so that you can maximize the amount of pussy you get to stick your dick in. It’s cool to have a post once in a while on how to manage American women’s horrible attitude, but I’d like to get back to nuts and bolts game discussions.

    Posts about text management. When to call. Openers. Negs. First date ideas. Alcohol management on dates. Escalation techniques. Isolation techniques. Last minute resistance issues. More opener discussions. More ramble discussions. I think all men struggle with the issue of rambling after the opener.

    All these topics would be much more beneficial in helping me get my dick wet then sitting around talking about stupid ass feminism. It’s a tired subject among the manosphere.

  • Jay in DC

    @18 Lithuanian Guy and -definitely @30 doclove (who I hope isn’t “The Doclove” otherwise Baby Jesus Wept)–

    REAAALLLLYYYY? Are you all drunk? I have some things in common with Roosh in only one way. I didn’t have to leave the States to focus on EE women to the exclusion of all others. I dated one and my mind was forever poisoned by their charms and femininity. “Lower status” gives me the LULZ. If you are a beta male White Knight faggot, maybe. If you are an alpha male whose Eyes are Open, particularly in DC, surrounded by a sea of frumpy DC Fraus. With their uber sexy three degrees, their lack of hindrance of caloric intake, their awesome lack of makeup or fashion sense, and well… fuck. You get it. EEs light up a room upon entrance and it has fuck all to do with “lack of food”. That actually makes me think Lithuanian dude is full of shit entirely. Few EEs lack the most basic substinence living the way that let us say, sub-Saharan Africans do.

    They are strong-willed, for certain, but vulnerable and feminine under this too. Strong willed is not a negative trait here like it is with US (DC Fraus particularly) women. They are faux “strong” they come from a nice fat, lazy, nanny state culture full of “strong, independent, empowered” women. They would curl up and fucking die in just a few scant minutes if they had to see what the rest of reality outside of the Western world has to offer. Seeking out the first strong cock that could fend off the ravenous hordes. I pray for the destruction of the West nightly, it would right this ship in a way that few other things would.

    My longest term girlfriends recently- Hungarian, Ukranian, Russian. Different cultures, similar story. And every single place I took them in DC the reaction from my friends spoke volumes- ‘Holy shit they are really hot and friendly.’ Yeah, its like that…

  • Apocalypseman

    Openers. Negs. Boring. That stuff is a tired subject. It’s all a state of mind and getting the state of the current female mind in America straight will help you more than regurgitating some line you read on a website.

    As for EE women. Living in London has shown me it is all economic. Women from EE think they hit a gold mine here. They can get men to buy them expensive stuff and treat them like gold just by maintaining their “feminine” traits that mean they deserve it. They can cook one nice meal and expect a lifetime worth of financial benefits in return. Now these are the ones that have been here a while.

    Don’t kid yourselves though. Another 20 years and EE women will be on the path to what we know of western women. It’s already starting. They are aware how they have the upper hand on their western female counterparts and they will use this for material gain. Over rated.

  • Apocalypseman

    I will add though that right now yes, EE women are a way better option than in North America. Just keep in mind they aren’t all perfect. It is economically driven too. Just look at the reputation of Russian women in London. They are terrible. I’ve seen it first hand countless times.

  • Jay in DC

    @36 Apocalypseman- Use your brain son. Yes, I had a Russian girlfriend. However, I met a couple of other Russian women that were the ruthless mercenaries described in all parts of the world. Looking to collar a rich western meal ticket. My experience, directly and thusly, works in a dual mode.

    1) Your eyes, use them. If she is down for the EE Gold Digger game, she has precious little time to waste, this will manifest sooner, rather than later.

    2) And I cannot stress this enough, time spent in the West is the biggest factor of all. My Hungarian GF was 10 years in the States, and it saturated her being. She wasn’t -quite- the feminazi cunt that the modern Westerner is, but she was headed there, to be sure. Russian, 5 years, not a mercenary and far less indoctrinated. The Ukranian less than 3 years, let us qualify this as “Fresh off the Boat” (FOB), more or less. This one was a pure example hotter than hot, highly approachable. But, I have no illusions in my world, the more time she spends amongst the Herd, the more absurd she will become. It is the way of things…

  • http://zarzuelazen.com/wordpress/ zarzuelazen


    As a freelance editor, I traveled around the world for 3 years, from 2008-2010. Staying in hostels, I was burning through a minimum of $NZ 2500/month in the 1st world (thats about $US 2000/month). You need this minimum for traveling around 1st world countries, but for other countries you can get by on less.

  • http://kaneadvice.wordpress.com Kane

    This is spot on. If I had a nickel for every time I heard an American chick trash talk an EE girl, I’d be rich.

    I don’t view most American females as really being women, especially in the workplace. Everyone in the office is a man until proven otherwise. I speak to and treat everyone as if they were male, completely professional. On rare occasions, I feel a feminine vibe in the office and I react accordingly.

    The American culture is dehumanizing, emasculating, and defeminizing.

    That diagnosis sounds right. By denying natural gender roles, American culture makes us less than complete humans.

  • Apocalypseman

    Jay in DC – love the Internet toughie attitude.

    Anyways, I appreciate an American telling someone who lives in Europe what to look for. Please.

    EE women aren’t all perfect. That said I won’t put up with a girl for more than a few sentences that doesn’t exhibit feminine traits.

    Been a while since I’ve been back home so it’s easy to forget the garbage there. But I don’t find English women nearly as bad as Americans or Canadians so I’m not as hell bent on the eastern euro bandwagon. Basically the only euro chicks I can’t stand in bunches are Scandinavian and Russian. The latter is a different experience in London than in their native Russia no doubt.

  • Val Cosmos

    The longest feminine women remain “women” in the West are Asian females. The probably never change or just a little. The only problem, so to speak, is narrow eyes of your possible children. But may be it`s really worth it???
    Russian girls of nice clean type rarely make it to America, they stay back home. So the types you are dealing with are of worse half, so imagine now for a second, if you really into those, what Russian girls are like in Russia? Pure gold.

  • http://serpentus18.blogspot.com/ blurb

    The main problem with America is that it’s a culture not based on nature.

  • http://zarzuelazen.com/wordpress/ zarzuelazen

    Sounds to be like it’s just the different economic environments – EE is poorer, this seems to lead to Beta Providers being more popular with women. Put the same women in a richer environment, this seems to encourage a switch to a demand for Alphas.

    Resource Poor >>> Trigger a female demand for Beta
    Resource Rich >>> Triggers female hypergamy, preference for Alpha

    Could be as simple as that, with feminism just a red herring here.

  • Obstinance Works

    Well put. I’m dating a girl not that way but her friends are. They try to shit test me and I stand strong. But I like being mean and nice to women so I take it in stride but only because I’m in the know thanks to guys like Roosh who will lead us to victory


    There was this Bulgarian butter face at my old job. She wasn’t much in the face dept but what a body and such a sexy feminine attitude. And she was 42! Every guy who meet her was drawn to her like flies to Arabs. But the americanized ugly latina Co workers hatred her with the exception of a few south American cute motherly types. The manly Dominican and dikey ghetto girls absolutely hated and defiantly felt threatened her. And with good reason there was allot of nepotism in that place. Meaning that those girls for there men jobs there, and one can tell that she was distracting. They in essence tried to sabotage her and united to try and get her out and would have succeeded had the company not moved to the POS nearby state that she d refused to relocate to (unlike the rest of us).
    Anyway the female MANager was doing all that she could remove “distracting threat”and take away the only thing worth going to that hellhole for. Ever since she left, with a few exceptions, that place became so ago depressing that


    I honestly wanted to beat those heffers to a thick sauce. Bitches! Btw that were right to feel threatened by her since she slept with the leader of the”smear Severina” campaign’s husband, and yourstruly of course. Though it pissed me off,I could under stand her passive aggressive vengeance. BTW, I hate touch screens! Things took forever to write! I mean wassup with that?

  • seeker of truth

    @ Roosh:
    ABSOLUTELY phenomenal article.
    I’m dating a country girl, from a small town of 600 people in Kentucky, and shes ultra feminine, sweet, and girlish. We read your blog together, and she pretty much agrees with almost everything you have to say, and not to make me happy, but because she really feels these things herself.


    I deeply apologize for the grammar. I am not yet used to touch screens yet and hance a risidual beta impatience. No computer by the way still in the process off”becoming”. Very anxious when I write. Any way the latina women in NY in the last 10or 15 years have become royally worse than American women. And with no wonder since they I’d’ve in close vicinity to THEE most manly and cunty of all women the American black bulldike. They are in the zone with converting got young sexy latinas into one old them. Black men keep your women happy and satisfied so that these latifah looking bitches


    Continued…So that these ugly queen latifah looking bitches don’t stand a chan DAMN EFING TOUCHSCREEN! What. No spell check or auto correct? I Miss my blackberry! I am normally so articulate! Ugh!


    I mean tattoos. They all have tattoos now and they think that is sexy! And these Bitch ass ghetto omega men always complimenting them left and right? I mean wassup with that? They say the phrase Ma’ nigah alot. I mean seriously. And the men like this. Kissing they’re hairy manly asses.
    There is nothing more unattractive and aggravating than a woman with tattoos who constantly says ma’ nigah!

  • Combichrist

    I second everything #18 Lithuanian guy said.
    With the exception of Scandinavia, i don’t think men should compliment women much. Girls want strong, dominant, independent man.
    American girls are right screening for betas: if you’re nice, polite, etc and esp. indicate that a girl is of higher value than yourself- get the hell out of my way!

    95 out of 100 times its true that EE women will take your compliments and act feminine just to reap $$ rewards at later stages of relationship.

    Roosh, do you have any idea how EE women behave after first year of being together? Or within marriage? They tend to be the same bitchy gold diggers as their american counterparts. You just did not got to that point ever, having mostly very short term contacts.

    What ruins women is modern capitalism with its central banking system. We all have to pay huge amounts of money (=our hard work!) to central bankers who put interest on debt. We pay for military, wars with drugs and cancer and there is much less money left for a living. The exception is Japan. However, mix this with consumption lifestyle being pushed in the media and we end up with unnantural women basically all over the world.

  • doclove

    @ Jay in DC
    I’m not The Doclove and don’t know who he is. This is long but worth the read. Listen to what That Lithuanian guy, Apocalypseman and I are telling you. An individual is an individual and should be taken as such no matter what group they are part of. there are always exceptions and degrees. There are good women and bad women wherever you go and of every, race, ethnicity and religion etc. It’s all a matter of percentages in genuine reality(the truth) or at least what you find in your reality(your truth not someone else’s truth). There’s always your truth, my truth and the truth and I try to have my truth be as close as possible to the truth.

    Now that we have the preliminaries out of the way, I will say that I agree with you that Eastern European women are better on average than American(or Canadian women or even British women). That’s not saying much. South Korean(and other East Asian women) are better on average too. I found Iraqi women to be more feminine than even Eastern European or Eastern Asian women at least in initial encounters on average. I never interacted with Afghan women, only the men because the women weren’t really allowed to interact with men outside their families in my experience. Feminism can only live in a safe and prosperous environment with a high level of technology which is working(because the electric utilities etc. exist and function) and where women have the opportunity to be as well educated as men as well as make their own living without a man plus urban anonymity especially if their is a breakdown of traditional civilizational mores. The problem in the USA(the WEST and the rest of the developed 1st world nations even South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong) is we have an increasingly tyrannical government increasingly masquerading as a government which promotes individual liberty meanwhile propogandizing us with PROGRESIVISM(MARXISM) which includes FEMINISM which is vigorously through ever more laws and enforcement being made to crush men in favor of women. The news media, the entertainment media and the education establishment support this as a rule and would love to make it worse generally speaking even more so than government officials on average. Eventually our ruling elite and government will turn on the women because if you destroy men’s freedom, it’s only a matter of time before you can and probably will destroy women’s freedom. Men worldwide are always more physically dangerous(able to kill, maim, mutilate, loot and destroy) and more difficult to subjugate than women on average. My point is feminism came into play because of urban anonymity, technology which made our lives easier but especially women, female education and work in which she doesn’t need a manto help support her, and this isn’t going away plus I don’t think most of us would want it to do so as we physically have easier lives than our ancestors and wouldn’t want to get injured, sick and die off in horrifying numbers. The only thing most of us want is for our ruling elite especially in government but even in the education establishment as well as the news and entertainment media is to be more just, fair and honest. We’ve all had more than enough of the lying propoganda and getting screwed over by the law just because we’re men who deserve to be maligned and pushed down according to those who rule us and women deserve to be praised and exalted according to them. As any country gets wealthier and more secure, feminism seeps in to some extent is my only point, and it looks like this will happen to Eastern Europe. Marriage has always been about being a setup for men providing and protecting women and children in exchange for sex and children to call their own since the dawn of civilization if not the begining of humanity. Most women in the world to include EE women would not be considered horrifying golddiggers, but gold digging is inherent in most marriages to some degree even good ones. You probably can’t bring Eastern European women nor East Asian women nor Iraqi women nor any other women to the WEST or certainly the USA without running into the many if not all of same problems as Western Women and certainly American women. Even staying overseas with them can become problematic as you the American(Western) man have a tendency to give them an inch and watch them take a mile or they grow angry with you because they don’t understand why you the American(Western) man won’t give them an inch so they can take a mile just like almost every other American(Western) man.

    My point is it’s one thing on first meeting any woman in the world. It’s another thing to “date”(I’m using the term loosely here because you could just be sport fucking them in a fuck buddy relationship) them. It’s yet another thing to be their fiance or engaged to them. Finally, it’s a fourth and another thing to be married to them as a husband especially when the honeymoon period ends which it almost always does after two years. Everything I’ve said is true no matter what their race, ethnicity, religion, culture etc. Typically, any woman is at her best behaved when she is a fiance or a wife in the honeymoon period of marriage. The real her which is more aggressive and disagreeable comes out after the honeymoon period of marriage is finished. This was even true in the past before this feminist dystopia came about in human history. I’m telling you it’s one thing to initially meet and then “date” EE women, and it’s another thing to marry them. Even the most religious country in Eastern Europe, Poland, has a 20% bastardy rate and a 25% divorce rate. The divorce rate in most if not all other EE countries is worse than Poland, and I don’t know about bastardy rates in other EE countries. The USA has a divorce rate of 50% and a bastardy rate of 40% of all races, but it is 40-45% divorce rate and a 28% bastardy rate for American Whites. Asian Americans have better rates at 25% for divorce and 14% for bastardy, but American Hispanics have worse rates with American Blacks having much worse rates which I can’t remember. South Korea has the worst divorce rate in East Asia at 45% while Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore range anywhere between 20% to 35% for divorce, but all of the developed 1st world Eastern Asian nations I mentioned have a bastardy rate of 2% or less with Japan being the worst at 2% on that metric.

  • doclove

    @ Apocalypseman
    I second you.

  • doclove

    @ Combichrist
    I second you. Like I said in my respnse to Jay in DC, it’s one thing to intially meet, “date” or even be engaged to them. however it’s another thing to be married to them especially when the honeymoon is finished because even in countires which are more man friendly for marriage and divorce, she still has her hooks in you and it’s not so easy to extract yourself from marriage. Add to this that as she gets to know you(familiarity breeds contempt) she will become more aggressive and disagreeable in the relationship because she is less afraid of you the husband as time goes on. Even Afghan men who have been married for twenty, thirty & fifty years or more will tell you that their wives complain more now than when everyone was younger, yet Afghanistan is one of the most man-friendly countires for marriage and divorce in the world.

  • http://www.insideawomansmind.wordpress.com Dins

    Actually, we -don’t- want Jante Law back. Jante should have been burned at the stake. I’ll happily hand that over, if it means I’ll never become someone who goes out in freaking flipflops.

  • Pingback: You Be the Boy «()

  • Osty

    It’s not the feminists who punish femininity in America. It’s the men.

    Unfortunately, as an EE woman about to marry an American man, I have to agree. Maybe not “men” as a group per se, but a certain collective (public opinion), that includes both men and women. In America you are expected to be competitive and have a certain lifestyle. It includes too many things, like, debt above all (I have never had debt), a mortgage, two cars, all kinds of unnecessary crap, lots of food, etc. A typical middle class American woman is a work horse, the professional types even more so. In fact, they remind me of Soviet farm women who had to work on a tractor or smth in kolhozes (Soviet collective farms). Rough, masculine, tough, practical, stern. But the problem is is that they’re sort of expected to be that way. The men expect that they will share half of the finances. But with the living standard being that high, you basically have to marry your work. But this automatically means that you do not depend on the man anymore. Also, it effeminates you. Because as a woman you’re meant to bring other things to the table, not a salary. It builds resentment against the man. You expect women to fill the male and the female role, the male can get away with just the male one, but the woman is torn in half (that’s why they go on antidepressants). There is no point in marrying – I can work and pay my bills as it is, why add those real family duties (emotional support to husband, cleaning, cooking, nursing, looking sexy, etc)? Only love can change that but love doesn’t happen often. I worked a lot in EE (and most women do but long for a provider as soon as they want a kid and they want soon usually – it’s just natural), and I don’t mean to slack off, ever It’ s just that being pressured by men and some women to be a „professional type”… it just builds resentment – why should I marry and be a wife (a real wife), I can just keep being a „professional woman”. There is no incentive to be feminine, in fact, real femininity is punished. The West is unnatural that way and hasn’t found balance. What your culture respects is masculinty, cruelty (often practiced by women too), jungle laws. And above all money making and consumption. Giving birth and nursing and raising kids is a hard job on its own. To be forced to also do the male duties (yes, we even have a term here – male duties, those are usually driving, opening a bottle, carrying something heavy, above all providing for the family (if he can, many can’t cuz of the economic failures)). Your typical EE woman will appreciate a Western beta. Also, the ratios in America are much more favorable to women. They can afford not to bother. There will always be somebody out there, or there will always be a job and help with a kid. EE women do not always have that. There is no WIC (there’s longer parental leave though). And AM are self reliant, they are more rough, more ambitious, an EE woman would rather seek the protection of a male with everything that results from that (looks, attitude). EE women are more timid in public life, although that is also changing. There is a lot of pressure in EE too.

  • http://www.anonymous.com AnonyFem

    Osty, great insight, thanks. Please write more.

  • cockblock
  • Osty

    Another point that needs to be made is that often times on the manosphere there is talk of „Westernization” of EE women, of „bringing feminism” to them, as if the EE people are some kind of savages that can be civilized by imposing American style of feminism on them and that „free market feminism” is some beacon of light in their dark pit. First of all, we don’t really want it, not the American feminism (Scandinavian egalitarianism – absolutely yes, but not the crazy twisted family law/lawyer money making/slutwalk/obesity justifying/work horse feminism typical of America).

    The EE countries are not some backward countries where women do men’s bidding and have no rights, they have never really been in the modern times (maybe the eastern Slavonic states, but not Central and Baltic). In some cases, the EE countries have been much more progressive than America (American women weren’t allowed to be in foreign service as late as 1970, this came as a big shock to me when I first heard it, it would be unthinkable in the FSU that a profession could be forbidden to a woman just because she is a woman). No, there was no Western style feminism, but women always had rights. Female suffrage in Czech rep – 1920, in America – 1920. Russia – 1917, Poland, Estonia, Latvia – 1918. The right to no fault divorce was established in the Soviet Russia in 1917. In America – in 1970. There were spinsters and late marriages for women in 1930s in EE.

    There is sexism in EE and men can afford to say things that they could be sued for in America, but generally women have been treated as normal human beings for a long time (even in ancient times) – they had much more freedom than women in the 1950s America or today’s Afghanistan. Russian women could easily have abortions for decades, Irish women still can’t and women in fundamental Christian America will get threats of hell and being skinned alive while an EE girl will silently go to the hospital and nobody will say anything, except maybe sigh to themselves.

    Also, until very recently EE women had not been subjected to porn and prostitution or weren’t even aware of it. Many women as late as the 1970s didn’t give blowjobs (when my mother first saw a blowjob in a light porn film in the 1990 she said I shouldn’t watch it cuz it’s a film where „women are being molested”). Through out the Soviet era a whole year of maternity leave was pretty much available, as was free daycare. For many years, there was also no scrutinizing of women in the media as is so prevalent in America.

    The Baltic countries have had female presidents, has the „citadel of feminism” America had a female president? There are more women in parliament there than in Congress. The first female to go to space was a Russian – Valentina Tereshkova, in 1963, the first American female astronaut went 20 years later. So it is still debatable who could teach women’s rights to who. The only real thing that makes the EE women more gentle is the culture (it’s ok to be a woman, to be feminine, in fact, it’s even encouraged via peer pressure), the relatively weak labour markets and weak labour protection make women more compliant, less choosy (but in some cases more mercantile), the smaller numbers of eligible men than in the West make them less picky too and in Eastern Slavic countries there is a bit of remaining stigma against spinsters (although that is veining too). There is little welfare, no alimony.

    The state will not come with a gun if you don’t pay child support. The soldier was right about the economy, infrastructure, welfare. When they go to the States, some will be happy in the marriage, if that’s what they wanted, but couldn’t get at home (quite possible given the ratios). I’ve seen younger Latvian women in DC having their egos inflated by being approached by NHL stars – I knew DC was not perfect for guys, but THAT bad?

    The younger ones can become like Germanic women. Slavic women are a bit more submissive, but they are more materialistic. Btw, LIthuanian guy – there is no lack of food in Lithuania, but the food is not GMO made and not as saturated with corn syrup and chemicals as in America, plus there is still peer pressure for a woman to at least try to look thin – not in America, in America they bombard women with crazy unrealistic body images, which leaves them… eating more food. It’s addictive. Plus there’s fat acceptance, in the Baltics and Russia there is plenty of food, but there is fat bullying, a rather strong anti GMO and fast food vibe and a girl has lower chances of getting a normal guy if she’s fat.

    But things are changing in EE too – they have changed tremendously over just the last 5 years. The last 10 years have made things worse in many cases, because there have been tremendous changes, the rule of global capitalism, proliferation of porn, the rise of slut culture, even more consumerism (the food consumption levels and the comfort levels in the US are insanely high) – negative developments for gender relations. It is not Marxism, but capitalism – everything is for sale.

    The female body has never been on sale as much as it is now, and the male is also just an instrument, just a fashion acessory to a certain new breed of super hypergamous consumerist self absorbed younger women, as recently shown by Kim Kardashian (an Armenian herself!!) who treated a decent man (a real human being) as just another one of her expensive handbags, that she tosses away after a short while. Simply inhumane.

  • Osty

    And even though I intend to remain a professional, I never want to become like some of those career women in the States, they get really hardened. The prospect of that scared me a bit because the environment will affect me. And there is no way I will cut my hair.

  • Roosh

    Osty: Really great insight. Thanks for sharing.

  • http://www.amanteapp.com Amante

    This is why American men importing foreign women does not work.

  • Anonymous

    To Roosh and any EE women or guys who have experience with them (or any of the countries out there where women are still feminine). Are they as filthy as north American women? Are they into doing as much freaky shit like getting gangbanged, rimming, hard anal, rough sex, bondage, s&m, etc, etc.)? Is this something that goes along with women acting more like men?

    [Roosh: Uh, no, though you’lll find the occasional girl who likes being choked. American girls are best for gonzo sex.]

  • Osty

    No, they are not as much into kink or some of the crazy stuff they show in contemporary porn (another crazy thing that comes from America, it’s just sad). I love kink, but I’m more bold and experimental than your typical EE girl. Most of the girls I know are pretty offended by that uber degrading porn. Some women are against anal. I had one girlfriend who wouldn’t give blowjobs (she said “my head is not made to be fucked”), she was very aesthetical though. They’re not entirely prudish, but not too freaky either, depends on the woman.

    Amante, I don’t know about importing, cuz that’s kinda utilitarian, but if there is mutual attraction it might work, and even pretty well because hypergamy is ofc satisfied. What happens later down the line in 5-10 years, I haven’t researched, but I know many couples who live there and even a couple where the husband came to Europe.

  • derthal

    Osty, there no is capitalism in Poland. You don’t know what capitalism is. The true capitalism in Poland was in 1988-1989 introduced by last communist government and ended by first non communist government in 1990. After that period the bureaucracy rules, labour unions rules – AFAIK there no such thing as Labour Code in USA. Incredible and complicated taxation and more and more bureaucratic obstacles are norm in here. Man owned small business as me is treated like shit by the low. There no respect for ownership, no respect for hard work in here.

    European Union as a whole is growing, big socialist utopia.

  • http://www.pofdomination.com Bigfoot

    The study just shows how dysfunctional American and Canadian(in Ontario at least) culture is.

    The thing is, that things don’t seem bad if you stay here for a while. Thats why most guys laugh at you if you tell them about other places having feminine women. They can’t imagine any other way than they see in their daily life.

    Each trip to Montreal is like a trip to another world planets away. Coming back plain sucks. American culture and gender correctness is sickening.

  • http://www.insideawomansmind.wordpress.com Dins

    Good posts, Osty. Food for thought. Currently I’m doing a lot of thinking on the subject, the balance between the working woman and still being feminine, and I def think you’re on to something about women losing some of the basic femininity when we went from needing to be supported by a man, to being able to yourself.

    30 years ago, ppl didnt get divorced, cause the woman weren’t able to support herself. Now, we can. And it does induce a ‘fuck you, I can do it myself’ attitude. I have some of it in me too, but I’m aware of keeping it in check.

    There has to be a way of keeping a balance, though. Having a career, but still, when you go home, having the 50’s housewife in you. I used to laugh a bit to myself, when the thought flashed through my mind, that I loved that it was -me- who got to do my mans laundry, but now I’m actually thankful, that I have that in me too, cause there’s no way I’m gonna end up a hardcore feminist. Or a softcore. I’ll die, before that.

    Ah, if only there were more alphas in this country…

  • http://www.insideawomansmind.wordpress.com Dins

    It seems as if women went from one pole to the other. From being stay-at-home housewives, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids and the husband, they basked in the newfound feminism and went totally overboard, disgusted by the old deeds. Stubbornly wanting to do everything a man does, losing touch with honouring the differences between men and women. Here, anyway.

    Thank God, it’s starting to turn, though. Here in Denmark, there’s an increasing tendency to quit careers and become stay-at-home moms, the whole retrothing in the home where you bake your own bread, make your own jam from the berries in the garden, growing your own organic vegetables… They call them ‘spelt-moms’. Making their family their career. I’ll never become one, I love my job too much, but I always loved the combination of my job, and then baking, cooking, doing the whole housewife thing when I’m home. I’m still oldfashioned enough to love when a man holds the door for me, do the heavy lifting, mow the lawn and so.

  • Osty

    Dins, well, I’m very independent (I make much more than your average EE guy), and I don’t really see being a “housewife” as an opposite to that – cooking for me is just… cooking, something you do cuz you like warm food. The problem with the American feminism is that there is an illusion of choice, you can’t really afford to choose to be a full time mom. Sure, you can have it all, if you try, but they don’t tell you about the costs (stress, being overworked, depression, resentment, they don’t teach women about how if you want a career and a husband who will help around the house you will have to subdue your hypergamy). I admire how things are done in your country. In America, they tend to either oversexualize women (and even little girls), or women want to emulate men in their behavior. That is bs – a woman is good and valuable as she is, she doesn’t have to be strong, independent, masculine. Also, why do they put women together with minorities, I’m not a minority, I’m one of 50%, we haven’t been limited for a long time now. I am free to exercise my feminine powers. Yea, sure, go ahead and become a police woman, but how many women will want to do that? But, no, in America they try to go out of their way to push it on women just to prove that women can also kick ass. Well, a woman went into space in the 60s, it’s obvious she can kick ass, but in the US a lot of it is about posing and just trying to make a point. For instance, what Cosmo teaches: that you are “sexy” and “empowered” if you go out, grab a stranger, squeeze him to the matress and fuck him in 50 different ways. Just for the sake of it! That is not sexy. Leaving some room for mystery is sexy. That’s not even normal female behavior. Also, this “sex positive feminism” is the biggest bs ever. One young woman wins for a second for exposing her tits, but in the long term the whole women kind loses. Sure, you should be able to fuck an occasional hunk, but why take it to such extreme, have some self-respect! Western women need to put their clothes back on, these days a female cannot be an artist if she doesn’t undress. More bs – this recent scandal with free birth control. No, it’s not a right. The right you do have is to keep your legs closed. Guy doesn’t want safe sex, don’t sign up for it, exercise your choice. The original feminism was about having principles, agency, not about being nannied. How are you strong and independent if you want others to pay for your birth control?? They are perverting the original women’s lib.

  • Osty

    And Dins, if you live in Denmark, you should be grateful, you have an abundance of very cute hard working men, same as in Sweden (the hottest men in the world). You say you want more alpha, I don’t know what you mean,but if you want them to pay for dinner, or spend time sweeping you off your feet, then you’d have to give up other things – like, guys spending more time with kids and doing housework. I’ve been husband hunting there (if I hadn’t met my American husband, I’d probably have a Nordic one) I can assure you that the quality of Scandinavian men is very very high. I think you’d have a hard time in Russia or Ukraine, where men are not nearly as polite, respectful, well groomed or healthy. Maybe you’d get a few dinners or bills paid for, but then be ready for an occasional slap and having to dress like a doll.

  • http://www.insideawomansmind.wordpress.com Dins

    I do live in Denmark, but what I mean with an Alpha man is not someone who will swoop in a pay all my bills, so I can quit working.

    With an aplha I mean someone who doesn’t ask. I don’t want someone who asks me, ‘Can I kiss you?’ for instance. If I don’t want him to kiss me, I’ll signal it to him, but having to -ask- it, takes all the magic away. I want someone who will put his hand on the small of my back and guide me across the restaurant.

    It’s hard to explain, really. I’m not talking about a male chauvanist who wont give me any choice, but I want someone who’s man enough to take control.

    I -can- take care of myself, but it doesn’t mean I want to… You know?

    Yes, there’s def a lot of cute, hardworking men, but there’s so many who is intimidated by women. They don’t take control. And I understand why, cause Scandinavian women do have a ‘Fuck off’ attitude a lot of times. If someone pays them a compliment, they think they’re being mocked, and they kick up an attitude. It’s def a Jante Law issue, as Roosh has pointed out.

  • Osty

    The Jante Law serves one important purpose – to maintain the cohesion and survival of a small people in a relatively harsh environment where you can’t afford to squander human resources. The Jante Law is the invention of Vikings, not feminists. Without the Jante Law the Danish people would dissipate. It’s a protection mechanism, you don’t wanna know what social contrast and inequality can do to a small people. And you don’t wanna know what it’s like to be a woman in a country that doesn’t have Jante Law (unless you’re a stunning model).
    I’ve dated Scandinavian guys so I know what you mean. Yea, I know, they treat you first as a human, and only then as a woman. To me it was a bonus. They are humane, understanding, respectful. But some of them can be funny, like, I once saw a Swedish guy wearing a cowboy hat on a night out, the girls were whistling at him. The masculine silent types are great, reserved, quiet and kind.. the classy looking urban types with great hair. Yea, they are passive, but I am quite pro-active, so for me it is ok. Especially knowing that they will stay true (with an EE guy the fidelity thing tends to be slightly more of an issue), they take a while to form a friendship with but once you’re friends they are faithful and knowing that the burden of the family will be shared, is a relief, it compensates for the lack of flirting. However, I’ve had plenty of flirting there, it’s subtle but satisfying. There is certainly no lack of sexappeal. I don’t think it’s cuz of the women that Scandi men are like that, it’s their nature, they are innately reserved. Also, I think some of them don’t want to bother being romantic, they like doing practical things for women, like, give a massage after a hard day. I know what you mean very well, however, I haven’t had problems with complements. They have told me in my face that I was beautiful. One guy even said “I wanna fuck you”. There was also an athlete who flirted aggressively. Maybe cuz I’m foreign. Sometimes they act like that, but yea, mainly they are reserved. One time I was on a date with a beta guy who sat in front of me with his drink and just smiled and waited for something. But then I saw this other Swedish guy slap his gf in the face, I swear, I couldn’t believe it! It was a rock bar. Frankly, I don’t have a problem just going for a coffee, what matters is whether you’re into him or not.

  • Danish

    @ Dins “30 years ago, ppl didnt get divorced–”
    Eh thats in 1982..dont you think you mean 50 years ago ?

  • That Lithuanian Guy


    How many Scandinavian blokes have you been married to? How come can you claim you know “they will stay true”?

    Masculine and silent, classy urban with great hair, a guy who sits confronting his girl and doesn’t know what to say to her and that flashy guy who thinks he’s cool with a Cowboy hat? Aren’t boys in your average EE town act the same? It actually reminds me a scene in every bar I go to, wherever it’s in Finland, Lithuania, Germany or England. It sounds to me like a very typical idolization of foreign men from a jaded EE girl who thinks she’s too good for her shitty country :)

  • Osty

    I didn’t mean they will never leave you or will never cheat. Like all Western men, they have pretty lax morals. What I meant was that there is a tendency for Scandinavian men to generally stick with their women more, as compared to EE men. I’m not saying they are perfect, but there is that little difference, it’s not major, but significant enough. These are only observations from being close to that society and also what other women have said. A woman feels more secure there because of the sex ratio. There are more men per woman there. In the EE, there are less men. It makes a big difference. More EE men screw around… because they can. Also, the culture. A high status EE guy can easily leave his wife and get together with someone 20 years younger and even though the public will be slightly shocked, the public opinion is not strong enough to stigmatize him for that. In Scandinavia that would be looked down upon and guys just tend not to do that. I have two Scandinavian male friends who I met on a dating site and spoke to for several years, but never met, and now that I have a guy these guys are still my friends, even though they know I am now taken and they can’t get anything from me anymore, but they are still friendly, and they are even younger guys. Loyalty is a rather typical trait in Nordic men. Also, in Scandinavia the men are less picky. These are well known tendencies. In EE as a woman you have to do more in a relationship. I’m not going to diss my men, they are like brothers, in fact, I always preferred them, Baltic men have many good qualities, there are many good ones. But the numbers are just not ok (there are serious health issues, emigration, etc). Ofc, the boys here are similar and wonderful, but they are more demanding and give a little less in LTRs (and I don’t mean money wise, that’s not my priority). Sorry for these long rants, but the topics is interesting.

  • Osty

    Btw, my country is not shitty, but a very comfortable one, 80% of the world would love to live in my country. I love the local culture and have plenty of opportunity. The only issue has been the sex ratio. I’m not the only one.

  • Sirob

    Osty, are you from Slovakia?

  • http://insideawomansmind.wordpress.com Dins

    Osty, it’s not about minding going for a coffee. It’s not about looking to get wined and dined and ordering the most expensive thing on the menu to shittest him. It’s about the majority of Danish men being -too- understanding. -Too- cutesy. It’s a fine line, because I’m not looking for a man who will grunt when answering and expects me to not have an oppinion, but in general, I think men in Denmark have become too soft, as a result of the women getting too hard, too into feminism. Not all, ofc. But a lot.

    @Danish; Yes. Thank you. 😉

  • Osty

    Dins, to each his own, different women prefer different types. Nordic type is nr one in my book, but ofc I know what you mean. It is indeed a fine line, it’s just that it’s a bit scizophrenic to ask a man to be “a little bit of this, a little bit of that”. If you’re expectation is that he be helpful and respectful, than you can’t accuse him of not being alpha enough, if you expect him to be “snygg” and well groomed, then you can’t call him too “cutesy”. Unicorns don’t exist in the natural world. It’s like when they expect women to be breadwinners, to contribute financially, be self sufficient and then wonder why they become so domineering and cut their hair.

    You can’t really go back to an economic system where women are home makers or work part time, if you wish to maintain the current level of spending. You already need more labor. The granola home makers that you mentioned are just a fad, guys there make their own bread too, drink organic coffee and take up the eco lifestyle. It doesn’t mean the old genders roles are coming back (unless you live in a forest).

    Sirob, no, Latvia, but I’ve been to Slovakia. Nice country.

  • http://www.amanteapp.com Amante

    @Osty Depending on her age, a European woman that start living in America will begin to change within 6 months! (The younger they are the more they will change because they want to fit in.) Actually, the country does not matter. I have seen this personally myself. I have met many European girls here and can usually tell how long they have been here by how they look and behave. They may not become 100% Americanized but the culture will change them. Just the simple fact that they will immediately realize that the competition is so much less will make them feel that they no longer have to maintain the same standards they did in the EE.

  • http://www.amanteapp.com Amante

    @Osty I agree completely. You cannot ask a woman to win in the business world and still maintain the same level of femininity. And it’s the same for men: you cannot ask them to become domesticated and still win in the business world. The personality and character that it takes to do that is very hard edged not soft. Women believe they can have it all but no where else in the real world does this exist. To be really good at anything requires specilization and they better you want to be the more specialize you have to become.

  • beta_plus


    As a half dane, all I can say is that are reaping what you sowed as far as Scandinavia’s lack of alphas. If broad chested 6’4″ men with Nordic features who don’t beat you while you have the state take 60% of their money and use regulation to drive the basic cost of living sky high in order to raise kids they did not father about which if they dare say anything you can have society ostracize them in a heartbeat, I don’t know what will make you happy. Masculine strength and confidence can only take so much of a beating.

    You can have hypergamy or perfect safety paid for by men who don’t have the right to say no. You can’t have both.

  • DC girl

    “we went from needing to be supported by a man, to being able to yourself.

    30 years ago, ppl didnt get divorced, cause the woman weren’t able to support herself. Now, we can.”

    I would make these edits:

    “we went from needing to be supported by a man, to being FORCED to yourself.

    30 years ago, ppl didnt get divorced, cause the woman weren’t able to support herself. Now, we HAVE TO.”

    As Osty says, American women have to sacrifice their femininity to be taken seriously in the workplace, because very few of us will ever be able to opt out of the workforce. The typical wage in America means that a two-income household is necessary to maintain a comfortable middle class standard for even a married couple. Parents can’t afford to care for their daughters until they marry; we’re on our own at 18 or college graduation and the money to support ourselves has to come from ourselves. Sure, we could marry young, but statistically that doesn’t work out very well for most and a woman who missed out on years of work experience only to end of divorced with no marketable skills or education ends up impoverished. That’s why courts award the alimony that you despise so much–to compensate for the upper class women giving up her earning power to marry a provider.

    I’m a 27-year-old American woman living in DC, which I know the readers of this blog hate. I have to say that I’m a different woman at work and at home. At work, I wear suits and pants, flat shoes, I never show cleavage, I don’t wear a single gram of makeup, and I wear my hair hanging loose or in a simple ponytail. If I dress too feminine or sexy, I’m taken less seriously and it affects my ability to get my work done (because people will deprioritize my requests or similar) and therefore keep a roof over my head. But when I get home from work, the first thing I do before going out for drinks or dancing is put on a dress or a nice top that hugs my torso and a skirt, some heels, do up my hair with decorative clips or braids, and put on makeup. I own multiple petticoats and they might be my favorite thing in my closet. I even still wear pantyhose. When I like a guy, I don’t play games, I make myself available to him. I make an effort to show interest in him by paying attention to him, doing nice things for him (cooking, buying gifts, little massages, compliments), asking him to teach me how to do things (men love this one, and I don’t care how awesomely skilled a woman is, I’m sure your man can do SOMETHING better than you and would love to have you ask for instruction), etc. This usually works pretty well. I am choosy and don’t get into a lot of relationships, but all the ones I’ve been in have ended up with an amicable agreement that while we get along we just don’t see ourselves spending the rest of our lives together, and I’m still friends with those exs.

    I’ll also add that it’s not just professionally where displaying femininity can be risky for women. Feminists are not the ones telling women they deserved to be raped for wearing a skirt. A culture that tells women that wearing a skirt means they give up their right to bodily security is one that punishes femininity, and it’s not feminists that are doing the punishing. It’s rapists and their apologists.

  • Combichrist

    I dont know if readers of this blog are aware of the fact that:

    1) feminism
    2) promotion of homosexualism
    3) decline in masculine values and masculine powers (see bisphenol A, estrogens in plastics, chemtrails)
    4) the gigantic rise of pornography
    5) economic system based on usury, which makes most of the population slaves
    6) wedding/romantic love/monogamy fairy tale sold to girls from circa 8 yrs of age
    7) prison and legal industries putting males to jale for (illegal) marijuana

    were created with purpose and being pushed by the mainstream media/corporations not only for profits, but also for total destruction of traditional male/female relations?

    1. Men and Women are polygamous by nature!
    2. Gays are gay due to dominant mothers and lack of fathers – since fathers work 3 jobs or are put into jail or can’t stand feminist wifes
    3. Chemicals destroy testosterone so as office jobs (little sunshine+wifi cell phone radiation)
    4. porno and sexual commercials alter the brain chemistry in such a wicked way that males feel burnt out, exhausted. desire stronger and stronger
    impulses-> kink, kink and more kink
    5. media, church, government pushes monogamy/marriage onto population, when it is a fact it DOES NOT WORK. marriage kills love, bondage kills natural life flow, happiness.
    6. brutal sexual images/movies make a tantra or carezza sex hard to practice or even accept – when tantra is the most powerful healing and bliss force.

    So there you have it. Whole nations enslaved by their own madness.

  • Combichrist

    Quote from osho:

    You think, as many people in the world think, that man is polygamous, and the woman is monogamous… that the woman wants to live with one man, to love one man, to devote and dedicate herself totally to one man, but man is different in nature — he wants to love other women too, at least, once in a while.

    The reality is: both are polygamous. The woman has been conditioned by man for thousands of years into thinking that she is monogamous. And man is very cunning; he has exploited the woman in many ways. One of the ways is: he has been telling her that man is, by nature, polygamous. All the psychologists, all the sociologists are agreed upon the fact that man is polygamous; and none of them says the same thing about woman.

    My own understanding is that both are polygamous. If a woman does not behave in a polygamous way, it is nurture, not nature. She has been utterly conditioned so long that the conditioning has gone into her very blood, into her bones, into her very marrow. Why do I say so? — because in the whole of existence, all the animals are polygamous.

    I say unto you that both are polygamous. The whole existence is polygamous. It has to be — monogamy is boredom. However beautiful a woman may be, however beautiful a man may be, you become tired — the same geography, the same topography. How long do you have to see the same face? So it happens that years pass, and the husband has not looked attentively at his wife for a single moment.

  • sheesh

    @ Danish:

    I have observed the same thing when travelling to DK and Sweden. Women on the streets either don’t look at you at all or they see through you as if you were translucent.

  • dragnet

    AnonyFem = massive trolling effort

  • eric

    Osho is a dicksplash, monogamy/polygamy/polyandry mating strategies, including sexual deception, vary widely across the animal kingdom.

  • skeet_game

    #32 fake…and a dude

    why anyone would troll like that beats me. the comment is not even funny

  • http://www.insideawomansmind.wordpress.com Dins


    I’m not saying men in Denmark got to be betas willingly, but my point is that it’s a damn shame.

  • http://www.insideawomansmind.wordpress.com Dins


    I just read your #29 post.

    “To meet a woman here you need to be the perfect age beta male..between 20-25, dressed up in black, most likely wearing a black hut gym suit and leather jacket, very smooth talking, never about what YOU want, but perhaps something about how the BZ movement is going (your pro that). You should be on welfare and against all normal society values like family and home. You shouldnt like your parents as well.
    And never mind having a real job. That will make you a loser.”

    *shudders* That guy would get nothing but silence from me.

    Let me guess; You’re from Copenhagen? I’m not. Jutland. A guy like that wouldnt get the light of day where I live. :)

  • Osty

    beta_plus, Scandinavian men gan tremendously from welfare state that both men and women pay into (there are high female earners too). The businesses get a superb infrastructure, highly educated/competitive workforce, healthy population (unlike EE where the med are dying out due to health problems), less crime (up until lately they had no crime, crime is now only caused by immigration). The men gain big time from welfare. Most children that they sire are theirs. Btw, there are practically no housewives there. And – btw, the biggest opponent to the welfare state in the Nordics is a woman – the libertarian Siv Jensen who wants cut welfare.
    The environment for men in Scandinavia is better than in the US, there is dual custody and non of that court bs. Different masculinity is encouraged though, but you won’t be slammed if you don’t “make enough money” as you are in America.

    Amante, you’re preaching to the choir, I’ve been going back and forth a lot and every time I go to the West (or even Scandinavia) I get a significant boost of confidence. Not that I don’t get attention here, but in the West I often feel as if I’m wrapped in a soft blanket. I get way more looks. Btw, my looks will not change much in the States, as I maintain a certain self image, I have high visual standards (towards both men and women) so I wouldn’t feel good about myself if I got fat and my long straight hair is almost sacred to me.

    DC girl, I think you worry too much what others think of you. :) And you are right about the “skirt censoring” culture.

  • Osty

    sheesh, In Scandinavia it is not polite to stare or look strangers in the eye. People respect your space and privacy.

  • http://www.insideawomansmind.wordpress.com Dins

    Srsly, is it that big a craze in the States, that women cut their hair off? I don’t think I have even one shorthaired female friend, if we’re talking short-short.

  • Osty

    Most American women I know have long hair, it’s just not a glamorous hairstyle. Btw, good, long, straight hair is pretty hard to maintain past age 23. It is money and above all time.

  • beta_plus


    I have to respectfully disagree. Shockingly few Danish children are raised by their natural parents together. My favorite experience was this was when I went to a kindergarten in Copenhagen and when the teacher asked of the 20 students who lived with both of their biological parents, only one raised their hand. This was back in the 90s and at a nice school. BTW, I didn’t provoke this question. I was talking about the weather at the time (Denmark had an amazing summer that year).

    What this clearly indicates is that some Danish men get to sire children, while the rest are left out in the cold and expected to fork out the money for kids they didn’t father born to women they didn’t even get to sleep with by the force of the state. The main difference between Scandinavia and the States is that if women want to completely drain beta males wallets, they do not have to have sex with them so they can drag them through the court system. The means might be different, but the end result is the same. Women form soft harems with alpha males and the betas are forced to pay for the off spring. Keep in mind, it doesn’t have to be 100%. If 70% of the men get to have their own kids that still means that 30% don’t and get stuck with the bill.

    So what if the welfare state is great for business and safe and you get a great education and they have free healthcare? That’s great if you’re a hypergamous woman. It’s next to useless for a beta male – they need a lot less than a hypergamous woman to make it in the world. The only thing beta males have going for them is exchanging their wealth for the right to reproduce. You take that away, they stand little chance. Game can save some, but if you read Roosh’s book the barrier in Denmark for that is extremely difficult to breach if you don’t want to sleep with fat ugly chicks with bad teeth (how the hell does that even happen in a country where the state picks up the tab?). Cocky Funny Confident banter/passing shit tests is punished, leaving a man only body language and kino, which is much more looks dependent.

    That kind of environment does not produce confident men.

    Thanks to the EU, beta men who are shunned in Denmark are discovering that they are quite the prize in the rest of Europe and are leaving. They work outside the country and marry women who are not Danes, depriving Denmark of precious beta male tax revenue that otherwise could have been used for children that were not the beta males’ while spending a trivial amount on the beta males themselves. Public goods like roads, law enforcement and sanitation are cheap on a per capita basis. Pre-school and “free” surgery is very expensive. There was an IHT article about this years ago which I can no longer find a link to. My favorite part of the article was that the Danish man featured in it married a Spanish wife and lived in Germany, a nationality of woman not well liked on this forum. For him, a Spanish woman was a step up.

  • http://www.insideawomansmind.wordpress.com Dins

    I wouldnt call it hard to maintain, just takes a few good routines on a day-to-day basis and a good cut. Best product -ever- to long hair is the Moroccan Oil.

    (Sorry Roosh! Talk about hairproducts stops here, I swear.)

  • Osty

    beta+ ofc, the well known story about 30% of men not having access to siring children (law of Nature, btw). I did not mean which children lived TOGETHER with both their biological parents. What I meant was that most women still have children together with boyfriends, sambo or husbands, a man they know well and when the child is born the man knows it is HIS child. I don’t know the exact statistics but that is my impression (I’ve had a lot of contact with Danes). Most women in Denmark are not single moms, in fact, they are mostly in unmarried long term partnerships. And when/if these partnerships break, there is typically a civilized mediation process, unlike in America, where the real hell often starts and fathers are denied access to their kids – in Scandinavia it is harder to take a kid from a man. Sweden has automatic dual custody. Most Nordic men I know who have former wives have access to their biological kids. The fact that they split is sad, but it reflects the economic realities/ values of our modern life. Freedom is valued more in our society than family. Btw, it is great to have benefits, but you cannot live in Denmark on benefits alone if you’re a single mother. It is just too expensive. What you do get is good cheap daycare (fathers benefit from this too). You still need to have that day job. And you have a lot of sexual freedom there too, not just alphas but regular men too. Not as much as they want and not with whom they want, but they do get some. Besides most Scandi women are together with betas. It is typical of Scandi couples that they are egalitarian – in age and in looks.

    So you are saying you don’t need safety? :) You’d rather have an anarchic society like Russia where men are plagued by alcoholism, early life illnesses, where betas get fucked by alphas? You’d rather put up with that kinda living standard?

    Your living standard takes a lot of effort from both men and women alike. What I ask is for you to not underestimate the work women do there, you need them. SEB would fail immediately if one day the accountants and the female CEO would not show up for work. I bet even Bofors employs tons of women. Sure, you Nordic males would do fine, working on your own too, but the living standard would be lower.

    Btw, women put a lot in your budget too, because every single export company NEEDs women, esp young flexible childless ones.

    I personally wouldn’t mind paying if my school mate from former years had a baby and needed support. I would mind giving it to some freeloader immigrants though, and that is one thing that is really fucked up up there, but Denmark is at least handling it better than others.

    The Scandinavian economies are more solid than those of the patriarchal southern European states, btw. And they extract money from the Eastern European markets too, btw.

    But ofc I already acknowledged that the mating game is much tougher for Scandi guys than EE guys. I personally know a couple of 30 yo lower betas who I frankly do not know how they’re going to find a partner

    And yes the EU adds a very positive element to this whole thing.

    Dins, I meant it is much harder to maintain than a short crop. Keratin beats all, btw :) Keratin blow out gives you model quality hair and costs 200euro per session.

  • Danish

    Weird how almost every thread turns in a discussion about Denmark.

  • Astounded

    Osty, your comments are excellent and I’m enjoying reading them. You have a clear sighted view on gender roles and how they have shifted, based on exposure to different political and economic systems. Good work.

  • Nonpareil

    LOL @ American Women, who can’t find men, telling EE women, who don’t even come close to struggling, that what they are doing is wrong.

    I’m in China now and I love it; the women are sweet, they smile, they’re submissive and they wear skirts, stockings and heels.

  • http://N/A Psychonaut

    Femininity is addictive.

    Roosh, have you ever thought about a pursuing a PhD?

    You could write hundreds of research papers and publish the results of your social experiments.

    Your generosity will return to you. Karma is real.

  • http://[email protected] Butthole

    @nonpareil yeah but they got those damned slanty eyes.

  • Paradise World

    @ Tampa

    Exactly. manosphere blogs are fascinating but I had to quit reading Heartiste and Roosh for a month because every day there’s more feminist yammering. It’s depressing. and I consciously avoid depressing things like the plague, especially if I know it won’t help me in any of my goals. Reading about how bad American women are for the 25th time won’t help me interact with them. If anything, it will make me jaded, which I can already feel happening. You are what you read.

  • EuroInDC

    Just saw this photo this morning: http://redd.it/sqyxa

    Typical American woman: meets someone whom she supposedly admires; thinks that making idiotic face makes her attractive.

    I can’t imagine any self-respecting feminine woman acting like this and being proud of it.

  • Anonymous

    I agree with this article. I’m not American but french Canadian. It is not only American women that are becoming men, but Canadian women as well. A few years ago, I came to this conclusion on my own, just by observing around me. I’m a feminine female and being feminine I feel like I’m an outcast.

    If you go out anywhere, and you are wearing a dress, skirt with heels, you are looked at like you are an Alien from outerspace. Most of the women around here all wear flip flops with leggings or capris. More and more overweight women. What is interesting most of them have a mate tagging along. These poor men try to look at me in a sly way without there wife/GF seeing.

    I find it interesting that men seem to really those type of women. Men look at me, smile at me but can’t approach me at all. I think they too feel safe with their masculine women.

    On the other hand, men are going to have to step up to the plate. Because, as a feminine women I had to go for a European man to treat me like a woman. I don’t understand why North American men are becoming more feminine in their actions and I don’t like it. They can’t even court or pursue a woman. I’ve been told that men want to be pursued by women and I’ll be an old lady if I wait for them to make the first move. I refuse to budge. I ain’t chasing a man, I just was not brought up that way.

    It’s a damn shame.

    By the way, I like good looking, fit , high beta males. I really don’t like alphas at all. They are just too macho and they usually don’t treat women well at all (my experience).

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  • Rundel

    I love going out with a feminine beautiful woman who was born in a 3rd world country, dresses beautifully and is comfortable on my arm. She makes all these 1st world purse across the body flip flop wearing half women shrink in a puddle of low self esteem.

    I agree with #7- make sure you reward feminine women. Treat them well, put up with their quirks, smile at them on the street, do not call them sluts or bitches.
    And when they treat you too good to believe, take a deep breath, pinch yourself, and enjoy the moment.

  • Lily

    So true! As a woman living in Eastern europe i cant imagine that woman dont want to be a woman! Here we compete with each other who are the most sexyest, the most slimmest, the most stylish etc. I want to be beautiful everywhere – on street, in University, in job place, even at home when i am alone. I like that men look at me, i like to get compliments and flirt with them. But it doesnt mean that i am a dumb slut. I am intelligent person with two higher educations.

  • Marena

    Good Day All! I live in the United States, and from my experience I see the Eastern European women as so masculine lol it is crazy how people perceive one another (by Eastern Euripean I mean Montenegro, Russia, Bosnia) Although the Turkish community seems to be very different since most practice religious culture, being mostly from Islam, so they are actually the most “feminine”. As for Scandinavian women, they are actually the most balanced, very feminine (good housekeepers, groom well, keep fit, seem to be good mother) and they are also independent, meaning they all work hard for money and are more involved in community affairs. I am neither Eastern European nor Scandinavian, I am actually a mixture of both, plus Asian :-) I believe that when it comes to the American man and Eastern men, the majority of American men have psychological issues and are often depressed or stressed and seeking “peace” elsewhere. The Eastern European man has too much entitlement and will often seek elsewhere to fill his big ego. So, you see, there are negatives in both aspects, but there are positive too.
    The Eastern European woman is actually a hard worker, but often is depressed and hiding much sadness, yet she raises her children well and keeps a good house, but needs to tend more to herself after marriage and children, which she often forgets about as she ages. She also embraces her physical beauty, and is simple compared to American women, and doesn’t need to get a boob or butt job or surgery. The American woman should become more gentle, and learn how to do housework better, she should also not pay too much attention about her body so much, and also be more simple and effortlessly beautiful like any woman from any other country besides America lol. There is culture shock wherever you go in the world, but I agree 100% that there is no country with a stranger “culture” then America, who knows why, since 90% of it is filled with immigrants from other countries…strange really. A sociologist might be able to answer this one.

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  • BREC

    I don’t see what’s wrong with a woman not being “feminine”. Do you have any idea how uncomfortable high heels are? How inconvenient skirts are? How flimsy the fabric of tight, low-cut shirts are? Pardon us for not sacrificing our comfort to look more attractive for you guys.

    How about all the guys? You guys seem to think it’s okay to be fat and unhygienic so long as your girlfriend looks good.

    But to me it seems that your definition of feminine is a delicate housewife who doesn’t argue with you. So she has to look nice and be complacent. American women are confident and a man must be their equal.

    I guess if you want someone who isn’t capable of having a real, productive conversation with you then by all means go with the “EE women”, though I doubt they’re all like that.

    Also, I disagree completely with your statement about American men not being masculine, or even less masculine than Eastern European men. It is widely thought here that EE men are actually kind of…wimpy and girly. They’re more fashionable than women sometimes, and that’s just weird.

    American men are sometimes too masculine and that can be off-putting as well.

    Seriously, though, if you want a dainty girl who can only make polite conversation then you’ll have no problem with that because no American girl is going to want you.

  • Raluca

    As an Eastern European woman born, raised, and living all my life there…this article is complete and utter bullsh*t.

    Feminism is growing strong in Eastern Europe and not because of Western “influence”. It is growing because women want to be treated like human beings, not like subhuman playthings for men.

    The Eastern European women who are “nice” to Western men do so because they want US citizenship…it’s a dishonest strategy for getting out of the country. A lot of these women are desperate to get out, and they’ll say anything to flatter these men.

    People like you will never know real love because you are incapable of knowing how to see a woman as a human being.

    You’re better off buying yourself a plastic sex doll.

  • Raluca

    And another thing: these women don’t “change” when they come to the West. They take advantage of opportunities that they’ve always longed for in their home countries but have never been able to express. They have been feminists all along.

    It is like being a bird kept in a cage. The bird doesn’t realize it’s in a cage until one day it is set free. Once she experiences the beauty of being able to spread her wings and fly, of course she will not want to be put in a little prison. Who would?

  • a romanian girl

    EE women don’t want to be equal with men, they want to live a wonderful complementarism, they need to be protected, want to be admired. Unfortunately, EE men don’t appreciate all they done for them. Conservative gender pattern dominate their mentality, so it’s something normal for them that a woman cook, clean, raise children and be alawys beautiful for him, careful with your appearance. Probably that’s the reason EE women have a weakness for foreigners, because they treasured them or at least they make them feel that way.

  • Anonymous

    “It’s hard to imagine an American woman cooking for her man every night, let alone once a week”.

    Romanian, Russian, Ukrainian, Greek …all eastern christians men grow up to believe that a woman must be a maid in the living room, a cook in the kitchen , a lady in society and a whore in the bedroom. When they go in US they are completely different persons, but here they expect women to be multitasking. Most of them don’t lift a finger to help. They help only if the woman ask for help. EE woman is raise with the mentality that is her duty to please her man and she’s very exigent of her appearance, not only skils, because EE men have very high expectations. When EE women go to US they are so pleased that American men don’t have the same expectation as EE men that they are actually enjoying all that at home was a “duty”.

  • Maria

    I completely agree with Raluca. Of course these EE girls take advantage of the opportunites given to them!

    I am a girl living in the west and I consider myself to have a good feminine balance. Even my EE male friends has always said I am very feminine, especially the way I carry myself, I have good posture. I look after my boyfriend very well, iron his shirts, do all the cleaning, sometimes he will do the cooking though as he actually enjoys to cook! I can do more ‘masculine’ things like playing playstation together, fixing appliances, mountain climbing etc. I can dress up or down. I am comfortable in my skin so I don’t see the need to dress up to go to the store to get milk. My man actually appreciates this, his ex was dressed up like a barbie doll most of the time but had more rude almost ‘manly’ traits..

    Although I do agree with the article that a lot of women are becoming masculinized in a ‘negative’ way. The way girls behave at nightclubs these days is actually appalling. Also dressing up to look fake like centrefold from a magazine. I think in the western world there can be some positive ‘masculine’ traits in women. You must keep the balance. Women acting slutty wearing super short clothes showing their bits off to me is not ‘feminine’ but just trashy.

  • EE Woman

    I’m glad I never was, and never will be little bitch of some boy who is just pretending to be a REAL man.If you were a real man, who respects his woman, I would have no problem cooking for you, and pleasing you…but the truth is a lot of you are just little boys scared of women and the power we have, not grown up men (muscles doesn’t make you more of a man, brain does).

  • Drudown81

    What is being said here about EE women is very true. I am an American man. I have dated American women all my life, and have never been happy. I always thought I was depressed. I had thoughts of suicide as far back as I can remember. Somehow by a stroke of pure luck I ended up with a Ukrainian woman. She was not looking for a green card or anything like that. She already had one, and had been living in America for over 5 years before we got together. She loved to cook for me every meal, every day. Except for on the weekends when I would cook, which she showed great appreciation for. She loved to clean the house. She loved sex and there weren’t any sex acts that she was to prudish to do. She actually enjoyed it all, maybe even more than I did. She loved to have sex every way you could imagine, and she never felt like it was degrading in any way, oral, anal, toys, you name it. If she was on her period she would find a different way to take care of me. Not only did she love sex, she took great pleasure in making me feel good. It was the first, and only time in my life that I have ever been happy. All I had to do was all the things that a man is expected to do, protect her, make her feel loved and beautiful, keep fresh flowers in her vase at home, make appointments, pay bills, and fix things around the house. She died a month ago, and I am crying my ass off every day, and back to seriously thinking about killing myself, because I doubt I will every be happy again. American women are f*#$ing worthless.

  • Curious

    Anyone else curious as to why African and Middle Eastern women are never mentioned in these conversations at all?

  • EE transplanted to USA

    I agree 100 % with Raluca. This article is pure bullshit. I was born and raised in Romania and moved to the U.S. at the age of 28. I was a feminist there, I am a feminist here. I was feminine there, I am feminine here. I have more opportunities here and don’t have to cook and compete with other women like I had to do in EE to “snag” a man. I don’t need to snag a man because, unlike in EE, I can actually make a decent living in the U.S. and I am free to live, love, date and travel as I please here even as a single mom ( there would still be a stigma about that if I lived in EE). European men are absolutely not more manly than American men, on the contrary. EE men pay more compliments, they are more chivalrous but also more insistent even if you say know. American men do not have much initiative but that is mostly out of respect for a woman’s right to privacy and a harassment-free environment, not because they are sissies. Get over you ideal of the damsel in distress, the dainty South Asian, the oversexed Easter European and the hot and loving Brazilian women. Patriarchal cultures are the ones that create the little female slaves. A healthy independent woman can also love to cook, clean, have sex and enjoy a man’s company. Women are not becoming “masculine” here, they are becoming free and independent human beings. I appreciate your openness toward women from other cultures but these generalizations miss the bigger picture.

  • sandy

    Drudown81 I just want to say that I am sorry for your loss. Your ex-girlfriend sounds like a really good woman, who totally loved and respected you. I do hope that you meet a good woman who is everything you desire, when you are ready.

  • Driver

    Yes, I agree. As an a man living in the US, I can tell you that many of us here miss these parts of women (complimenting them, the cooking – talking dinner, and many other things).

    The roles that many women want, today, in this country are that of a man and many are finding out that it is ‘no joy’ to be a man (when you’re supposed to be a woman). Equal rights or voting rights are one thing…but many women in the US have gone overboard (power trip).

    Many men, here, would welcome a woman from EE with open arms.

  • Driver

    We’re not asking for a whole hell of a lot, today. Women are getting everything that they want (at an alarming pace, no doubt) and men are pretty simple in their requests or needs. You want my job? Take it. But you can’t be a man….that’s a fact of life. If you work out (lift weights) and I work out…you will not be stronger than me…that’s a fact of life.

    Women are finding out what it’s like to be the man (i.e. breadwinner, take care of things, fix things, etc…) and many are finding out it’s no fun – and yes, they need a man. Radicals have taken over the feminist agenda and it’s turning into a power trip (or time to get even)…it’s no longer about ‘equality’.

    If the meaning of feminism meant ‘equality’, then women need to get together and march down to the court house in any city in the US. They are getting everything in court settlements while men are left with almost nothing (sound equal to you?).

  • Driver

    You have it all wrong. There are plenty of men who workout and take care of themselves…but the female population seems to be getting fatter and more entitled, everyday.

    Women want everything (and you’re getting it) but you’re still ‘not happy’. You’ve (women) sent up this agenda to get all ‘equal’ but many of you are finding out that it’s no picnic to be ‘the man’. You’re not supposed to be…you’re supposed to be ‘the woman’.

    Equal right, voting, etc…is one thing. Women are going after ‘pay back’ and power, today…plain and simple. You want…you got it. How’s it working out for you?

    It will only be a matter of time when a man is not longer to blame (or around) and women will tear each other apart. Don’t believe me…just look at any corporate office environment (no men, all women) to see a small sample.

  • Driver

    and you, too, will be very ‘unhappy’ just like many American women. But for some reason, they just can’t seem to put their finger on why they are so unhappy. Hmmm?

    Welcome to the U.S.

  • Driver

    Some good points in your comments.

    Many men, today in the US, feel the same way that you do ‘Alien from outer space’. Their natural instinct is to be drawn to a feminine woman (attractive, wearing a dress, heels, etc…) but our society (here) will shame men as well as women for embracing this feeling (or action).

    It’s due to years of ‘social conditioning’ by feminists, the government and the media (MSM) that have left many scratching their heads.

    What you are seeing, today, is a push back by many men who just don’t give a fuck any longer. If I see a woman and I find her attractive, then I do what I want to do (i.e. compliment her, approach her, etc…). I no longer care about society and what others think of the whole situation. I do what I consider natural.

    It’s funny that a movement (feminism) that was supposed to ’empower’ women is actual attacking women for expression (i.e. wearing a dress, heels, cooking, flirting, etc…). It doesn’t fit into their narrative….that’s why.

    I’m tired of hearing about what women (feminists) ‘ don’t have’. It’s time to start taking care of my needs, first.

  • Driver

    Interesting points…but I’ll expand (my opinion) on a couple of them.

    Americans, in general, have no idea what the differences are between ‘wants’ and ‘needs’. You don’t need cable TV (but many think you do)…that’s just one example of many examples. That’s a major problem. People in this country want to live a certain way (middle class or other) so they slave away (one income or both) to pay for everything. I see this everywhere I go (north, south, east or west). First, we need to really define “wants versus needs”.

    Another problem is someone in their 20s wants to have the same things that many have in their 40s. They want to go from living a pretty easy life at home (with mom and dad) to that same style of living: nice house or other, nice new car (no real building, no hard times, etc…)…they want to continue with the good life..no break in their lifestyle. Not everyone…but a good majority. I see it…I live here.

    With relationships, it’s a shame that so many have to play the games, today…but feminism (or the offspring of it) has flat out told women ‘you don’t need a man’. Well, you really do. Because if you remove men from the equation, then you’ll usually have women tearing each other down. Look at any corporate office full of women only….and this will serve as a small taste of society (as whole) with men gone. There is nothing but gossiping, back stabbing, etc….drama…all of the time.

    I hear women complain all of the time how they are, now, the bread winner in their family or relationship. Welcome to feminism. You wanted the jobs of men (you got them)…and what did you think would happen to all of the men who no longer fill those positions. You all wanted to be the man (or at least the position and pay)…you’re getting it….but many are still ‘unhappy’. Many are finding out the truth….you can’t have it all (no one can).

    I’m all for equality in voting, rights, etc….but some roles are clearly defined as a man’s role…and some a woman’s role. Women are better at some things, men are better at other things.

  • Driver

    I do compliment you on the many things that you are doing well (no games, dressing a certain way after hours, etc…). I would hope many more would follow your example (a fine balance).

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  • I am me

    Some Americans believe that they know what you were like before you came to the US, and they think that only the US could turn you in to a person you are at the moment. This is really annoying. These kind of Americans try to rate you against the women who are currently outside the US in the part of the world you came from to see what “America has done to you”. This is not very wise on their part. I know that America had zero influence on me. I am as I have always been. And when I compare my English and the pictures and recordings of who and how I was before I came to the US, there is pretty much zero difference, with the age factor taken into account. Some Americans do not know that what’s in America now came from abroad to begin with. It wasn’t all original ideas cultivated on the US soil. Plus, you can become like Americans without even coming to the US, if you allow American media and other American cultural phenomena and even local ones that are easily available outside the US, to have a shaping effect on you.

    There is too much ignorance and illiteracy in the US that makes it hard to prove anything to such Americans. And why would you?! Especially that they think too little of you anyway, and are very careless with you because of that. I try to exercise caution in the US as much as possible because too many people here have a tendency to project their false assumptions upon you, bundle you up with other people by the false association, and pretty much tell you what to do and who to be. To top it off, they think they have rights to you as well.

  • Drudown81

    Thanks for your reply. I just stumbled across this old post I wrote and your reply. I probably put a little too much information in it, but I was not thinking clearly at the time. The truth is that I will never be happy again. The only thing keeping me from offing myself is that my family guilt trips me into not doing it. I don’t want to have anything to do with this world. I pray every day that I don’t wake up the next day. I am convinced that I was put on this earth just to suffer. Sorry if my posts are depressing. I you or anybody else enjoys life I am happy for you. I don’t wish for anybody to feel the way that I do.

  • Bora Bosna

    You forgot about the birth control pill. Men feel obsolete and unneeded in reproduction. Let us wait and see if the artificial womb will have the same effect on women.

  • Bora Bosna

    Women are OK with cheating. Society is shifting towards female serial monogamy or polygyny

  • Bora Bosna

    We will all have to go to Thailand then

  • Bora Bosna

    Kid in a candy store for the first time?

  • Scot Lyf

    You’re over the top on here. American women enjoy receiving compliments, even random publicly, as long as the compliments are in reasonably good taste and not seeking approval. If the women which you’ve complimented have ‘masculine energy’,… it’s up to you to give your “more genuine” masculine energy which overrides their ‘masculine energy’ in a way that comes across well for both of you, in most cases, because you have the right stuff in your manner of being as an attractive character. You give out your goodness, and you’re not attached to the outcome, though you care about their pleasure, mutually. If they’re not into it,… then it’s up to you as to whether to proceed with more efforts of attention, or to let her go,…. next…..

  • kelly

    Some people make it sound like we arent Human who have free will. Just cause I was born a girl and there is definition of what one is doesn’t mean i have to follow or be that way. Or it makes me less of one. we are all born different either we were born a girl or boy. Some people don’t even identity them selves as either. Just cause us women are changing to something not as feminine doesn’t mean its wrong and not attractive to others. It benefits those who don’t fit into that mold or can’t. If you want to be feminine and be what u think it means go ahead. I think we need both. And i like ever thing feminine. I collected China dolls as a kid still have them and other things like that and to wear dresses,still do or like to serve my bf and learn to cook for him. But I can be the oposite of feminine, I like video games, climbing. Trees, camping, quading and dressin half naked cause its 34 dagees out, being one of the boys

  • kelly

    Hmm I’ve been reading the comments and idk I really see no problem if a women wants to be feminine or if a girl wants to be able to be independent and able to take care of herself. And you know what? Well sometimes being a girl whos like what you guys are talking about isnt who someone is. Cause we are human we all have different wants and such. When I take away my gender and just label myself a human. All i see is a person who has a will and that doesn’t have a label on how, who they are. We have different personalities and identitys. Not every woman is cut out to be a house wife or mom or going to be timid. We arnt all born that way. Why we arnt like what we use to be is cause we see that, that isn’t the only way.
    I worry that if I didn’t get tough and strong and be able to be independent without a man what if my husband dies? I want to be able to be able to take care of myself if anything like that happens. I’d feel so useless and helpless at that point. One thing I know is some people cant always be completely be dependent on someone cause sometimes things happen and you need to be able to fend for yourself. But I don’t disagree with being dependent on a husband and being a women who can cook, clean be a house wife. I’d love to get married and have kids with a man who is providing for me but also see why there is a need to be independent. When it comes to being a human it’s not just black and white. We arnt something that can be what one thinks one should be or is. We are human,a being that can be whatever they want cause we have free will its not possible to be a curtain way because people said it is. Seriously why do we need to fit into a little box of what a real woman is. And my one aunty lost her husband, love of her life and father of her two daughters in an accident. It’s only reasonable to why women want to be independent and can be. Cause of things like this.