The First 30 Minutes Of Conversation

Excerpt from Bang

No matter how smart or interesting of a guy you are, it is impossible to speak for those first thirty minutes without messing up, saying something stupid, or going into a completely lame topic. Luckily, girls will give you a pass on many of the foolish things you will say. They understand that not every sentence that comes out of your mouth has to be a blockbuster, but if you continue to bomb you will be booed off the stage.

When you first start talking to a new girl, you may be so pumped that you talk fast, interrupt her, and disregard things she has said because you had another line or statement in queue. You’ll have the urge to say things already marinated in your head even though the conversation is going somewhere else. Resist that temptation because it leads to choppy, disconnected conversation. Realize that the more she talks, the better, because she will give you ideas and material to continue even further.

Only catch is she won’t talk a whole lot until she finds out you’re an interesting guy worth talking to.

In Bang I advise you to aim for zero silences during the first thirty minutes of conversation. If you’re running indirect game where you need to build attraction (i.e. she’s not already crazy about you), then silence early on will kill the approach because she will do very little to “save” you. She doesn’t know you and doesn’t care much about you yet, so why would she? Therefore you must be able to talk continuously, but interestingly, for half an hour. You must have in your toolbox a couple reliable routines and a basic framework of conversation based on the location you’re at (discussed at length in Bang).

I can go into any club in the world and have default conversations regardless of the girl. An observation about the music… check. “Have you noticed…” check. “Why are the people here doing…” check. “This club reminds me of when I was in…” check. When you have a ready-made structure like this you’ll be less nervous about finding things to say. It becomes almost like a game of Mad Libs where you just change a few things to better target the girl you’re working on.

Of course there are other ways to get laid than what I teach. There are guys who can’t have good conversation yet still pull, but I guarantee you it’s not from cold approaching in a bar. They rely on other gimmicks that minimize their weaknesses or otherwise highlight their best traits. If you want to get laid from approaching, something you can do anywhere, you must get good at conversation.

In short time you’ll realize that a big chunk of game is merely having very good social skills, where you’re able to converse in a fun and interesting manner longer and better than others. For guys who are complete newbies to raw social interactions, you need to master conversations before you can move into game material (in that case I recommend the book Conversationally Speaking). If you can’t maintain a great conversation with another human being then that’s something you need to work on first.

Read Next: 7 Things You Can Do To Improve Your Game Right Now

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  • The Rookie

    Agree with this totally. Did you have a way of remembering your defaults early on? I know they’ll be second nature from constant practice but I still find myself forgetting routines to keep the interaction going.

  • Tampa

    Another five star post right here. If done right, the neg is a great way to get her interacting in the conversation..

    If you can set off the insecure whistles in the right way she will be bound and determined to figure out why you think that. It’s a touchy road to travel down though. Bust to hard and she splits, go to soft and she thinks you are lame.

    Usually i’ll make a call about how they hold their drink, or something stupid like “did you go to school in the south? Something very southern about you.” When I know they are some NE lib dip shit. It gets the motor running everytime. Yap Yap Yap Yap Yap.

    Game is awesome…. god bless.

  • bcg

    Talking like they do in “Conversationally speaking” with someone is a great way to to validate them for a while and not much else.

    I’m a good conversationalist – good at putting myself into the other person’s shoes and asking relevant questions to show I’m empathizing and I’m interested. (e.g., “I bet you were fuming,” – predict they were feeling whichever emotion paints them in the best possible light – or “How big was the room?” – asking details like this shows you’re imagining the scene in your head, so they know they are commanding your attention.) The problem is that real-life conversation is actually a stream of continuous, subtle status plays.

    Conversation like in the book – conversation I’m pretty good at – is enjoyed by other people because you’re basically being a status pump for them. Consequently, it’s very difficult to turn that kind of conversation into something other than a one-off conversation for the other person. You’ve taught the other person not to value you, because you’re impressed with them. I can guarantee the only time that person will voluntarily reach out to you is because they need a favor or they were just dissed and they need a status pick-me-up.

    Because of that, “Conversationally Speaking”-style conversation, mixed in with some teasing, works very well on shy girls. Pump up their status – a situation they’re very unfamiliar with – and then challenge it with some teasing and some negs. For most people, this is a very common occurrence and will have little effect. For shy girls, this is like a drug. They get addicted.

    The problem is that shy girls cap out at about a 7, and even then they have to have either grown up ugly or in a small town.

    What I’d really like is a book about conversation that deals with the reality of human interaction – constant status plays, effective ways to deal with them, and how to return them.

  • stuff

    “You’ll have the urge to say things already marinated in your head even though the conversation is going somewhere else. Resist that temptation because it leads to choppy, disconnected conversation. Realize that the more she talks, the better, because she will give you ideas and material to continue even further.”

    This is too much thinking on your side already. Why let her give you ideas and control where the conversation is going to go. IT’S YOUR JOB! I’m convinced it’s 100% the guy’s job to make a conversation in at least the first 30 minutes. Only exception is when I want to see how she is qualifying herself to me, just to know how much attraction I have built up. I’d ask her some open ended questions. There’s obviously a lot you can do with questions. But the main focus should be with you talking. I think it can be choppy as you like as long as you input creative thoughts into the conversation. Always deepen and widen the scope of any idea. Sqeeze as much blood out of it as you can. Never waist any piece of creative input you could have safely used. it’s just my philosophy, I religiously don’t use scripted routines, I only have my own interest and that’s what I like to talk about, nothing more nothing less. If I talk about food, I like to go deeper than any man before because it’s an interesting subject for me. I read a lot of books about cooking and nutrition and the food industry and cultural aspects, cooking and family, etc. I can virtually talk for days about food politics and relate them to every day eating and enjoying good cuisine, I don’t need routines. It’s never the same, so I never get bored also. I really believe that good conversationalist never sit there and memorize lines. They always just talk about what they are passionate about.

  • Roosh

    It’s true that good conversation alone won’t get you laid, but you need to be able to relate/understand/empathize with other human beings before you can master game. Trying to game a girl before you know how to talk to her is not going to get results.

  • http://krauserpua.wordpress.com Krauser

    It takes alot of approaches before you can take yourself of the conversational rails and just relax into a normal 2-way conversation with a stranger. But yeah, that’s where you need to get. Routines and gimmicks are just a crutch till you get there.

    Genuinely good conversational skills are extremely rare precisely because they are so difficult to acquire. It’s one thing to chat with friends or workmates, it’s another to chat to a stranger from a submissive frame (e.g. like Leila Lowdnes “How to talk to anyone” book), another thing again to keep conversation rolling in a set. But hardest of all is having a normal natural routine-free conversation in set that paints you as a high value guy. That’s a hell of a lot harder than it looks.

    Girls recognise it and like it.

    Krauser’s last blog post: We are giving dynamite to children.

  • http://www.thegmanifesto.com The G Manifesto

    “Therefore you must be able to talk continuously, but interestingly, for half an hour.”

    Don’t forget to mention this requires asking good questions.

    Girls love to talk.

    Right?

    Control a conversation with the “Statement – Statement – Question” format.

    - MPM

    The G Manifesto’s last blog post: Las Vegas in May.

  • speakeasy

    Great replies already.

    I might start off with maybe 10-15 minutes of “cool guy game” with some light teasing or negging thrown in here or there and try to include some funny stories. Then I may disengage for a moment and see if she tries to re-engage. If she does, then that’s a definite IoI. If she starts going back to talking to her friends, or otherwise doesn’t seem to be picking up the conversation, then it’s an IoD. 30 minutes feels too long to be wasting on a girl if I’m not sure it’s going anywhere. Especially in my part of the country where bars close early.

    I agree with poster #4, best to talk about something you’re passionate about when possible. It’s not always easy to turn on passion like a light-switch, of if your passion is something that doesn’t interest women, like modding cars. But when you are having a passion-driven conversation, you quickly get into the zone and don’t have to think about what to say. People are attracted to passionate people and it’s always the person with the most passion that dominates the frame. When I’m explaining something passionately to a table of people, everyone is hanging on every word I say and listening. I’m I’m droning on about something with no passion in my voice, eyes will start to wander and someone will probably speak over me.

    What I’ve found is that comfort and feeling secure leads to the best conversations. If you have two people feeling very comfortable at the moment, they will converse well, regardless of topic. You ONLY feel awkward silence if you are not comfortable around someone. You know you’re in when you can share a moment of silence and not feel uncomfortable.

    I may look into “conversationally speaking” just to see what it says. I still haven’t found a book or blog on the art of conversation that impresses me.

    I hate the idea of using canned material as it makes me think too much about what to use in what situation and what not rather than just wing it and go with the flow. But they have their place I suppose.

  • http://sectorlv.wordpress.com Culdcept

    This is another great post and I do agree with Poster #4 and #8. Being able to talk about something you are passionate about can really get the conversation going. Sometimes you do need routines when you just run of stuff or there is a lull. This is the most difficult part of getting the bang. For me the initial approach and subsequent rapport are much easier than this 15-30 attraction building.

    Sometimes its fun to sneak in some qualifiers at this time too related to the conversation.

    Girls think silences means you have no connection, so they are basically death to the approach.

    Culdcept’s last blog post: Consolation Prizes: of Phone and E-mail.

  • stuff

    I also agree with you, speakeasy. In my oppinion all game is basically conversation game. At least it’s like that in modern times. I suppose cavemen could literally just pick up a woman and drag her home, then by the time he’s there with her, she would probably had gave in and summoned some attraction. Today all you have is your mouthpiece and that should be used as the most fundamental mean of game because it’s the most powerful of all means. Nobody really ever emphasizes this point although it’s by far the most important one for good game. If you can’t use your mouth right, if you can’t come up with lots of creative ideas on the fly and be funny, interesting, passionate etc. you can forget game. But if all you had was natural charisma, you proabably wouldn’t even need anything else, it’s so powerful. People think they need 101 techniques before they can go into the field, then they fall flat on their face when they notice that the most important thing is missing. Personality and Charisma, that’s a combinations you need like lungs and air you breath. Use it or lose it!

  • stuff

    Sorry for the harsh tone. I just feel it’s a very important topic that really needs to be understood.

    Otherwise, what are we doing?

    I think there is a lot more out there on this than popular belief and I’m discovering more on it myself day by day. What all this game advice really gives you is something you can channel into great conversation. And it’s vital that you do it, not just think about it while you are talking. game IS talking! I used to confuse these things a lot in my head, but now I see how it used mess with my game.

  • speakeasy

    Adding on the subject of comfort and conversation which I was talking about, two people who feel comfortable around each other can talk about virtually ANY subject under the sun and silences are never awkward.

    I think what would help a lot of us along in our conversation game is figuring out a way to make women feel comfortable with you in a short amount of time, say within minutes. I realize that true comfort takes time to build, but there may be psychological techniques that trigger those parts of her brain that make her feel comfort.

    I know that one is using someone’s name frequently. Typically, most of us guys forget a girls name seconds after asking because we’re focusing so much on what to say after. And even if we do remember it, we don’t use it. I know that when girls I don’t know pepper my name throughout their conversation, I feel this crazy instant rapport. So say a girl’s name is Jen. And you want to tease her about the way she’s holding her drink. Instead of saying, “I took the most amazing trip last year!”, say, “Jen, I took the most amazing trip last year!” Don’t overdo it though or it will sound weird. So that’s one technique for building quick comfort that you can use right out the box. Btw, you can use this on guys too, if you need to build comfort, like bouncers or promoters or people with power. If I can think of others, I’ll post them. Please add some if you can think of any quick, but effective tweaks that build fast rapport. The quicker you get into the comfort zone, the more you build the vibe and get past that “getting to know you” stage. And then girls start to say stuff like, “even though we’ve just met I feel like I known you a long time.” A guy that can consistently provoke such sentiment is pulling ass.

  • speakeasy

    ^^^^
    Opps, I royally fucked up a sentence above that I meant to remove the part about teasing the way she’s holding a drink. I changed it taking about a trip you took but forgot to remove the drink part. Must.Proofread.Before.Submitting. Lol

  • stuff

    Well, eye contact is definitely important to gain quick rapport and comfort. But ec game can range from creepily staring to really tight ec game that can make women feel a lot of rapport for you. There was a study somewhere where they found out that women feel most comfortable when people look for about 8-10 seconds into their eyes at a time. For men it was about 5-7 seconds. But since you have to get used to looking people in the eyes for that long, it’s not a quick fix for guys by any means, and you can’t practice this with guys since guys will get uncomfortable. You can try practicing in the mirror but it’s not as good as doing it on girls. Maybe it’s part of the reason why girls like talking to eachother. Of course they feel more comfort in general because of equality.

    Rapport is basically like the feeling of being on the same team, only 100 times stronger. It’s like the feeling of melting together with another person where you don’t feel any barriers between you do to share anything. You can talk about personal stuff, things that require a lot of trust for girls to talk about, especially sex topics. Though guys tend to talk about sex like it’s a conquest. But when a girl tells you about her sexual experiences it means she really trusts you. By following the principle of going first, you can make it seem like you are telling about these personal things from the beginning. But make sure you don’t frame it like it’s a conquest. Don’t brag, instead, frame it like you trust her so much that you can tell her that you are getting over a bad relationship with some girl. It might even be true because most guys are getting over some bad relationship. Then she will be instantly more open to tell you some story about her relationships. If she starts talking about it in detail, you are as good as in. But only if you can keep it up with your own stories and deepeing and widening the ideas etc. It’s not easy to do for guys especially, but if you can talk with a girl about relationships and still appear like a man, she will think she has found the holly grail or something. Just try to keep it general. You don’t want her to think you’re her new girlfriend. You want to challange her by keep telling her your stories and relating to her on that level. Don’t fall into therapy frame and you’ll be alright.

  • http://www.matthoss.com Matt Hoss

    Indeed, whether you’re trying to get laid, win a friend, or close a business deal, people skills makes the world go round.

    Matt Hoss’s last blog post: Watch STRING THEORY.

  • http://wonkawilly.wordpress.com/ Willy Wonka

    I guess my goal now is to work on making the conversation actually last 30 minutes, I’m always looking to bail on sets before that time hits.

    Willy Wonka’s last blog post: My Problem With Day Game.

  • azuzuru

    The granddaddy of all these conversational/relationship-building books is Dale Carnegie’s classic “How to Win Friends and Influence People.” I can’t recommend it enough as a foundation for game and success in life.

    Don’t let the title fool you. This is not some book about how to manipulate people. It’s a book that teaches specific skills to understand, communicate and connect with others in a deeper, more fundamental way.

    One of the earliest lessons is how to develop a conversation — i.e a relationship — with a stranger. Carnegie’s point is simple — as soon as you can, find out what the other person is passionate about. Encourage the other person to talk about his/her passion by asking questions, listening and being genuinely interested in what they have to say. It’s simple but it takes practice to develop the habit.

    Before I learned this lesson I thought the way to build a relationship was to talk as much as possible and impress the other person. Wrong. After I began applying it, my success rocketed in game and in business.

    This book is so useful on so many levels. It’s on my “absolutely must read” list for life skills.

  • http://krauserpua.wordpress.com Krauser

    Yeah, Carnegie’s book is great. Read it long before I discovered game.

    Krauser’s last blog post: We are giving dynamite to children.

  • JoeS

    Getting someone to laugh is the quickest way to get them feeling comfortable with you. But not in a way that brings down your own value or is dependent upon you acting like a fool/clown. If you aren’t naturally funny, watch funny shows that are based around actual jokes (i.e. not the Office or Friends, where you have to break down the whole “this person did this, then that person did that” to get to the punchline.) and build your humor around the show’s jokes. In the beginning, think more Seinfeld than Dave Chapelle as you don’t want to let loose on the controversial humor until you feel like she gotten to know you enough to view you as playful/joking.

    I think the humor thing ESPECIALLY applies to younger woman who see having fun as more important than everything else. I think that the Dale Carnigie stuff is good for a post-college aged chick who is starting to take herself more seriously.

    I use humor as a qualifier myself. If she’s takes herself too seriously to laugh and loosen up, I tend to move on. Although it does seem like they types of women that guys tend to view as long term, mother-of-their children material are the ones who fall into the serious category.

  • Charles

    Hey Roosh, Keep up the good posting.
    Just wanted to say that I tried your line “you look like your having the most fun out of anyone.” line at a party with a bored looking girl, and it totally worked. Unfortunately, I couldn’t keep up the convo going for the first “30 minuets”, but im only 20 so this was a great success!
    Thanks for everything, and know your literally changing people minds and lives.

  • surfer

    Well, I think the best way to deal with those awkword silence moments you are bound to have in a conversation is to be honest about it and not try to use some preprogrammed default escape routes. Maybe say something like “Okay, we talked for 5 mins, we’ll take a short a break till I think of something else to say (with big laugh):D”… That honesty usually gets you mentally very relaxed and right back on the track so you could continue with “Damn, maybe staying all day on the sun wasnat such a good idea. Looks like my brain got fried. :D ” And so on.. there is just tons of possibilites to continue

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