Anon 29 – Whats wild is that you have same preconcieved notions about US as some of us do about YOU.

Anywhoo…

I co-sign immersion as a fast way to pick up a language. I learned more portuguese in 9 days in Rio De Janeiro, than I did studying French for 6 years. BUT, there are some similarities that made it easier for me to pick it up so I can’t really say I started from scratch.

I’m Spanish and I find it weird that you, Americans, want to learn about other countries. You are mostly known for being extremely egocentric, patriotic and much less educated and with less culture interest than the average European. This guy’s blog is just another example of your stupidity…

He estado estudiando espanol por 2 anos, mas or menos, y mi espanol no es muy bien todavia. :( Tratare estes recomendaciones. Gracias.

I think that for most people (myself included) immersion AND traditional grammar study are needed. I learned Spanish from a teacher who had a grammar book, but I ALSO spent time ‘en la calle’ ie in a bunch of bars in Antigua, Guatemala. Believe me, if I had not had at least some instruction and knew some words I would never have gotten into the conversations that really helped me. I also owe my skills to one particularly cute Guatemalan girl… but thats neither here nor there. I studied grammar during the day and hung out at bars trying to talk to people at night, and honestly think that it THE BEST way to learn bar none.

How hard is it to agree that the best way to learn anything is to approach the topic from several different directions.

What may be difficult for some people is that there is some differences between European Spanish and south American Spanish. 99% of it is the same, but not all of it is. I’ve made several “sexual” mistakes as far, “there is a giant prick in there” (after coming out of a bathroom), and “id like to bang the bus”. I can’t remember which words i fucked up… but it was very confusing for me, and she wouldn’t stop laughing to correct me.

[...] How To Teach Yourself Spanish – Tips and Recommendations I’ve learned Spanish nearly fluently simply from surrounding myself with Spanish speaking people. It’s how children learn to speak. [...]

phillip’s last blog post: Mel Gibson Doesn’t Give a Fuck.

– They are cheaper than private tutors
– They go above and beyond just simple listening and repeating. You actually have lessons and tests to ensure that you are progressing.
– You can go at your own pace and constantly review the content.

Learning a foreign language is extremely hard and people shouldn’t tell you otherwise. In my personal experience there are no shortcuts. If you really want to become fluent, which is truly rewarding, then take a course.

A couple of other activities help as well:

– Watch Spanish TV shows. You may not understand what they’re saying at first, but it will help.
– Go to a Spanish speaking country and start speaking with the locals. You’ll learn how they talk and pick up some slang you might not learn in a classroom.

I truly do believe though that the first step is starting with some basics. Here is some more info:

http://www.teachyourselfspanishnow.net/

Ramses’s last blog post: Immersion is the way to go (and stop looking for excuses).

[...] your Spanish to the next level, I recommend taking a look at a guide I wrote a while ago called Teach Yourself Spanish. If you find yourself in Brazil, rest assured that your crappy Spanish will easily be understood by [...]

Thank you very much for posting these useful resources. Really, thanks, it was very nice of you.

As for fourth generation hispanics, I still have never encountered one that doesn’t speak English, and I know a boatload of immigrants. I’ve never even encountered a second generation older than 5 who didn’t have a grasp of basic english. Hell, half the americans in Virginia don’t even have a basic grasp.

You can “immerse” yourself by living in a different country physically, but unless you immerse yourself in the culture and the people (and I mean more than going to 7-11 and asking for cigarettes), you can’t really consider that full immersion. They live in their enclaves, have their DISH Latino, get their necessities from bodegas, and find Americans, like me, to help them with the things they need to do in English. The average Mexican has no need to speak English to live in this country. Even LESS in places like Texas and California. The biggest disservice I am doing is not forcing them to speak English with me.

Anyway, I truly do congratulate any person who takes on a second or third language, no matter how they do it. The world is getting smaller and languages are so important.

you’ve attributed a false premise to me.
the majority of recent spanish-speaking immigrants aren’t living in socially isolated linguistic ghettos (although So Cal has some notoriously isolated hoods) yet still are not picking up english from immersion in the predominant US culture. the latest census has 1st wave immigrants speaking english in a useable manner in the 10-20% range. these are the people for whom immersion seems to be doing nothing. and these are the people who are most similar in circumstance to an american traveling overseas to spend 6 months or more in a foreign land learning another language.

it is not a data point in favor of immersion as a policy to teach language to large numbers of people, though it will work for motivated lone travelers.
thus, there have to be other factors in play besides cultural immersion — the immigrants’ willingness to learn, for instance, and incentives to encourage them.
or, at the very least, avoiding disincentives that discourage them from learning english.

Thus immersion works, but like any stress people will avoid it if they can.

I’m still curious about these 4th generation latinos that don’t speak English. That’s some pretty hardcore isolation. I’ve never encountered it.

Also, Rajia sounds like you might jut be good with languages. Most people past the age of seven cannot learn a language with as much ease as you describe.

Pero yo sujero que si quieres apprender Espanol, no escuches reggaeton. Seria como trater de apprender Ingles escuchando Jay-Z (or cualquier rapero).

If you want anecdotal evidence for immersion. I was born in MO, but grew up in Chile until I was 5 . I came to the US never having been exposed to English. Before I was 6, I was reading chapter books like Across Five Aprils, which I remember being painfully long. Plus, I got punished in school, because I finished the entire spelling book in a week as retaliation for them getting me in trouble with my parents for not doing homework.

I still wonder how that made any sense.

in those cloistered spanish-speaking enclaves you will find generations of spanish speakers that have not grasped more than a rudimentary use of english. restaurants, post offices, and schools now have signs in spanish along with english to accommodate large swaths of the US population. then there is the growing market proliferation of spanish language TV. this is a national trend.

the percentages of immigrant non-english speakers in the US obviously get smaller with each generation (although not as small nor as quickly as other immigrant groups have in the past) but this gets to my point that immersion as a language learning tool seems not to work on first generation immigrants (whose experiences are similar to a traveler going to south america for 6 months) who’ve been here for years and are either incapable of learning, uninterested in doing so, or disincentivized from doing so by government-sponsored bilingualism. children of immigrants born here pick up english relatively quickly because children in general pick up any language they are exposed to quickly.

i contend that immersion worked for you because you wanted it to work, and you had no other choice. but as a policy for teaching second languages to the masses, it may not live up to the hype.

Most of the Spanish speakers in this country that do not speak english do NOT interact with english speaking people. They live in their enclaves of other spanish speaking people.

my guess is that immersion works when you are young and your brain more pliable and when you have the inclination plus the smarts to learn. all avenues where you can resort to using your native tongue must be cut off, as well. it doesn’t help spanish speakers in the US that their native language is catered to with bilingual government forms and service workers.