Welcome to your thirties (some are smart enough to get it during late twenties) – welcome to the age of less but better quality dates. You’ll love it.

Women will not tell you this. Just like women will not tell you what they really like about men, instead pulling out the old canard about a “sense of humor” being important. Never listen to what women say they want; instead watch what they do and who they screw. The class clown never got much action nor did the brain. The football guy did. Remember this.

Women I know go on dates with gentlemen then nitpick the guy’s sweater or some detail and he gets no action. These same women meet some underemployed guy by their apt. pool and he suggest coming over. They get in the habit of sex.

I believe dating was a concept from the 20th century. We have now gone back to our primal roots thanks to feminism, the internet and the waning influence of religion. Women consider dates “girly” IMO because they have become like men. They only respect guys who hit it with no respect for them because this forces them into being subservient females.

CPN = total cost before notch

that may or may not mean it was a $77 date. It could have been two $38.50 dates, or a $50 date along with a $25 date and a $2 date. The possibilities are endless, but it does not mean Roosh is dropping $77 on a single first date.

I have no doubt that this is true, which leaves me to wonder…do you believe that there’s a girl out there for you so you can stop playing these types of games?

Maybe your constant focus on this type of outlook on dating is just perpetuating it.

I think someone already said this but if a girl digs you then a trip to the Whole Food’s “meal by the pound” for dinner would be just as good as a trip to Café Milano. Oh, and if you are on a date with a guy and he reaches for the check and says “Let’s just split this.” He is not into you and there will be no second date. I’ve started doing this when I don’t get a vibe. It makes the credit card statement more bearable when I get it.

i was thinking more sade.

“not-so-secret fan of French sadomasochist fiction?”

fiction? mademoiselle, only to those without the eyes to see.

Roissy– If you mean hedonism according to Epicurus, then your intuition is right on. And am I to infer that you’re French, or simply a not-so-secret fan of French sadomasochist fiction?

THEN qualify- Tell her you’ve got the bill but she is paying the tip. Make eye contact and keep it, watch closely.

You test HER. She knows it and will try to “pass” if she likes you

If she refuses she is a bitch -doesn’t matter *unless she’s broke and you know it

If she is stingy on the tip (which is about the lowest class behavior possible) she is a bitch and a BAD PERSON don’t waste any more of your precious lifespan on her

If she uses the opportunity to overtip the 15% minimum for good service and goes say 25% she is probably a good person. Decide to leave it that way and next time go for all of bill with her tipping and 3rd date (which is after close most times) make “perpetual splitting the bill pact” but promise to treat occasionally and actually do it.

If she goes 30-35% she has a heart of gold –
but may be crazy gold goood crazy baaad
(keep gold)

If she’s Latin cute
just soak in the smiling bliss

hashing out checkpayage is more stylistic kabuki than accountant green eyeshade. it almost doesn’t matter who pays or in what amount as long as the guy can suave his way into any arrangement that leaves his date glowing with the inner dignity of a woman prideful of her femininity.
cleanly executed money handling isn’t sufficient to get you to sleep with him if it’s already been decided beforehand, but it is necessary to avoid befouling the OSV.

I actually agree with you on your first point–if a guy goes too far in trying to impress a girl with his bling, he will actually creep her out/convince her that he must have an acorn for a penis. (Granted, there are women for whom the mere words “prix fixe” seem to trigger some primal lusty urge, but they are crazies and their harpy glint should blind you from a mile away.)

But come on, of course I don’t mean that a guy should be a total ass about splitting the check. Admittedly, the implicit 50-50 assumption should have already been established at the start of the date– i.e. you both decide where to go, what to order, etc. If one person expresses budgetary constraints (“Actually, I was thinking somewhere more casual”) and the other person replies with some variant of “Don’t worry about it,” then the assumption becomes that the latter person will cover the check.

But to answer your question, Roissy, if I’m ready to tear a guy’s clothes off after dinner, and I’m already assuming that we’re splitting the check, and then he still lets me pay when it comes, that will not affect my propensity to, um, see that he does.

I suspect that whatever anthropological clues lead you to conclude that “women still insist on men picking up the check” are the same ones that lead women to conclude that men still insist on doing it. (That was convoluted, but I think you’re smart enough to get it.) The most important thing (for both sexes) is simply making a gesture of willingness– after all, it’s as much of faux pas to assume someone else is constantly paying as it is for someone to let them. Just because your date may be able to pay for your dinner, it doesn’t mean you should abuse his/her generosity.

You may find this hard to believe, guy, but I’m not the only girl I know who actually prefers to pay my own way (or go Dutch) when dating. Personally, I think it’s more comfortable to alternate paying on dates, or even to playfully pay one another’s checks (rather than each ot his own), but I have no problem with feeding myself, if that’s the implicit agreement. I mean, come on– you’re not my dad. Or my expense account.

While I can’t speak for all women, my interest in dating isn’t usually dependent on the likelihood of my getting stuff for free.

nikita, if your decision to sleep with your date is made well before the check arrives, then i assume this means you will still be sucking his cock after he slides the check to your side of the table, pulls out a calculator, and figures out your share of the bill, taxes and tip included?

If this is the case, and the answer to the question is “no”, then why do women still insist (passively or actively) on men picking up the check? Talk about arrogance — not only will you not sleep with him after he takes you out on a date (sacrificing other opportunities), but you make him pay the entire bill as a final kick in the balls. How about a little bit of honesty for a change? Insist on paying your half of the check (or perhaps the whole check, since you received the benefit of his company), and tell the guy to his face that you had a nice time but the night is going to end early?

As for who pays, my decision about whether or not to sleep with someone at the end of the night is generally made well before the check arrives.

$10 coffee date: 10% chance of creating a vibe necessary for sex
$40 date: 50%
$50 date: 51.5%
$60 date: 53%
$200 date: 60%
$400 date: 60%

and so on. The percentages are made up but are there to show that you gain little by spending over a certain amount. The 40-60 dollar range is a sweet spot (for guys my age). It’s pointless to be completely cheap on the first date if spending a bit more will get you to where you want to go much faster.

As for how to articulate this concept to women, i’m still in experimental mode. It’s easier for me since they know i don’t have a job, but a girl will not pay for a guy unless he is way better than other dudes who have no problem paying. In other words your game has to be super tight.

At the end of the first date I usually say “You can get me next time.” Then she does and by date 3 she has to really like you if she’s going to continue paying.