For the longest time I thought that Washington DC was the capital of PUA culture in North America (alongside Los Angeles), but I hadn’t yet been to Toronto. Hands down, I’ve never seen so many PUAs in my one week visit there than I have in my entire life. There are Toronto bars where you can find over two dozen PUAs working simultaneously to approach every single woman in the bar in rapid succession (go to Madison Avenue Pub on Thursday night to see what I mean).
I’ve already chronicled how Western society is making it hard for men to have normal relations with women, let alone get laid with someone who is of at least their equal. In Toronto, the odds are even further stacked against men: women of low quality are actually more difficult to bed than in Washington DC. It’s the only city I’ve been to where the girls are more concerned with getting late-night food than getting men. For thousands of guys in Toronto, the solution to this problem is adopting the RSD style of game, which is approaching on a mass scale.
RSD, or Real Social Dynamics, is a PUA company that was popularized in the book The Game. About eight years or so I was invited to review a workshop they had in DC. All I remember is that the instructors, specifically Tyler, approached a lot. I thought I approached plenty but these guys took things to a level I hadn’t seen. I saw them approach girls with guys, girls sitting down at tables, and other scenarios that had a low probability of success. They didn’t care.
You quickly learn that one of the main tenets of RSD is to spam approach. They push you to approach every single available girl just to lose the fear of approaching, and even if the girl isn’t feeling you or showing signs of disinterest, you must “plow” through as if her response doesn’t matter. Then after doing 1,000 or more of these, you will be a master player. Their instructors, whose skills I don’t doubt, have dedicated their lives to approaching to such an extent that compared to them I’m a mere hobbyist.
In Toronto I met a college kid who reads my work. Him and his crew are plugged into RSD teachings and we got the opportunity to talk about the RSD style of game that has taken over Toronto. He told me that to get laid in Toronto you need to spam approach until you get lucky with a girl where you aren’t cockblocked by the “mother hen” dominated social circles. RSD also encourages guys to approach full time by doing it daily, hitting astonishingly high approach counts each week. I had trouble believing that for many guys, this is what game has been reduced to.
When I left Toronto, I completely understood why there is a “PUA Hate” culture: RSD is teaching guys to interact with a high number of girls in uncomfortable situations, training them to dislike and eventually hate the process of getting laid. They’ve created mindless approach machines who regularly get kicked out of night spots and stopped by security in malls. The burnout is so high and the upheaval to the self of an RSD student is so extreme that many become game denialists for life, and are actually less likely to succeed with women had they adopted a more balanced approach to getting laid.
In my Roosh Program post, I advocate doing cycles of 100 approaches. Yes, that is a lot of approaches, suggesting that a numbers game is definitely involved, but you have to work on yourself, too. You have to lift weights, read, and take on interesting hobbies. You have to improve your overall social skills instead of merely ignoring women’s responses. You must constantly measure your results and reflect on what you’re doing. Compare that to my reader who considers a “warmup” to be 10 approaches in the first 15 minutes of entering a club.
Another RSD student did a “30 day challenge” where if he didn’t get laid with going out in that month, he would sleep on the street with homeless people. RSD students have quit their jobs to focus on approaching full time. It seems like the goal is to get a guy to lose his identity in a program that either turns him into a disgruntled hater or a guy whose only skill at life is approaching. It’s no surprise that RSD is often compared to a cult, with Tyler their leader.
I have a 16-year-old brother. I’ve started introducing him to some game techniques, but the main area I’ve been helping him with is weightlifting. The other month he happily emailed me when he did one rep on the bench at 165 pounds, something I didn’t do until I was 22. I’m also teaching him about ramble and how to elaborate his replies when talking to girls instead of giving short answers. But would I tell him to approach nonstop? To “plow”? No, because I don’t want him to hate interacting with women, the inevitable result of doing what RSD teaches. If he tells me one day that he found out about RSD and is trying one of their programs, I’d fly back to the States to run an intervention. If my teachings are like smoking a joint, RSD is like shooting heroin.
While Toronto, DC, feminism, smartphones, and so on are making it harder for men to land women, is being an autistic approach robot the best answer? The irony of the RSD system is that it’s so time intensive that it would actually be easier just to learn the guitar and start a local band to bang groupies. We now live in a time where many guys think the best answer to getting laid is to be a human spammer instead of a good man, and maybe in the end they’re right. RSD is simply a male response to all the Torontos of the English-speaking world.Tweet Follow @rooshv
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This is so weird. I guess my belief is that the longer you’re in the game and the better you get at it the less approaches you should have to do before getting laid, a number, or having a positive interaction. You should be able to look at a girl, size her up and figure out if she’s even worth it first then if talking with her will result in something positive happening.
“One shot, one kill”
“I advocate doing cycles of 100 approaches. Yes, that is a lot of approaches, suggesting that a numbers game is definitely involved, but you have to work on yourself, too. You have to lift weights, read, and take on interesting hobbies. You have to improve your overall social skills instead of merely ignoring women’s responses. You must constantly measure your results and reflect on what you’re doing.”
Amen! Roosh, you’re a breath of fresh air.
Hi roosh, nice post. I started off by reading The Game, I bought a stupid hat and approached lots of girls in clubs.
All it taught me was that I’m just not that guy. I know people who have naturally high energy in clubs and I leave it to them. Personally I get more pleasure from trying to seduce select girls with tales of travel and adventure. It makes me feel like I’ve achieved something, and the sex is more satisfying.
Ps, I buy your books as I enjoy your writing and I’d like you to keep up the good work.
While I completely agree with the sentiment of the article, It’s hard to know with Toronto-Occupied-Ontario if RSD is the problem or just a symptom. The odds are just so stacked against a single guy in that place. The women really aren’t from very good stock no matter where their ancestors came from, are fat, and have a welfare state ready to cater to their every whim while being able to shop at near American prices, while the guys are often very tall, well educated, with good personalities, who have to deal with horrible logistics due to out of control real estate prices and awful transportation. I get the feeling that self improvement, while a good thing to do, might show very little return with women there.
I remember going to a high end restaurant near Bay St. and the owner was greeting customers that night. The guy, no exaggeration, looked like a young, cleaned up version of Fabio with a hair cut in business casual. If it had been the bartender, that would have made some sense to me but everything that I’ve heard about being an owner is that it’s not a pleasant job besides getting access to cute waitresses. When I meet owners or GMs in DC, they are usually average looking guys at most.
Furthermore, I work in sales. What those rsd guys are doing is the equivelant of cold calling telemarketing, which is one of the most unnatural acts and only leads to misery. I think its much better to be a “big game hunter” and prioritise, like the other guys have wrote. (And no I’m not referimg to fat girls!).
That’s what cavemen did, they didn’t waste energy running around after every mammal that breathed.
I am not familiar with Toronto or the RSD teaching, but they really need all this approaches to get what exactly: brief isolation, number close, one night stand?
Are they also considering other factors like logistic, or they only focus on “approach”?
Honestly to me all sounds like madness…
I understand that you need some number of approaches to refine your skills, but as VK wrote (and my “teacher” taught me before), the better you become the less you approach.
finally what is the connection between rds and PUA hate: former students that just got rejected without getting laid and now hate the entire system?
Toronto nightlife is terrible is bad but daygame at least while I approach during work hours isn’t bad.
The problem is, with all the minorities(not racist just don’t want to bang the rainbow) white girls get an inordinate number of suitors lined up for them. As a result, their bitch shields are pretty damn huge.
The best places I’ve found to pickup white girls in Toronto has been before work 8:30AM or so, or at a gym you regularly attend. Going right after work, if you find the right spot you will be rewarded big time. Of course, most girls you see are 25-35, but its the nature of the beast since young girls dont really go the gym in large numbers.
Yes and no I think. The newest batch of RSD has a lot of really great internal game ways of understanding (Friendly and Cool, vs Cocky&Funny). I also think there is some value in a lot of approaches when you start, lets you know it is ok. But just plowing through bbefore you can be trusted not to be an idiot is a bad idea for everyone. Of course I’m not really the target audience, I don’t go to clubs.
>>> “You have to lift weights, read, and take on interesting hobbies.”
There are five things that would solve most sex-deficit problems for most men:
1. Work out. It drives testosterone output, which is extremely important for the male brain. This alone will change your mindset faster than reading 100 books. The best type of exercise is short-burst, like “boot camp” or the CrossFit brand, or something similar.
2. Work for yourself. Employment is social inferiority, by definition. Eventually a girl is going to ask what you do for a living. “I work for a better man than me” is not a good answer. “My boss is a woman” is even worse.
3. Speak up. A man’s voice is a critical factor in asserting his social status. It’s also an area of biological gender difference, which are the features that turn us on sexually. It’s why men are attracted to women’s breasts — we don’t have them. Women don’t have deep, strong voices, which is why they love them.
4. Do not be friends with women, including wives and girlfriends. Limit friendships to males only. I don’t mean drop your female relationships altogether, but treat women and friendships as two mutually exclusive categories. This is especially true in the workplace, which you should own and control. (See No. 2.)
5. Take up at least one male-oriented hobby or recreational activity. The top three are competing in sports (not just watching them), being outdoors (hiking, hunting, fishing, etc.) and making something.
It’s an overkill.
If you need to constantly approach in such massive numbers to get someone to even bite, maybe you need to step back and analyze your situation.
If it was me, I’d be on the next plane out of Toronto or whatever other city requires such drastic efforts.
absolutely correct on toronto and high volume approaches, i use to do it here 10 years ago before pick-up got popular and RSD didnt even exist. the few PUA’s i know in toronto are just like i use to be, and they all keep detailed stats on approaches, which seem to have more importance then notch count, its all about the churn here, how many approaches you can turn over in a month, its like a grocery store that uses loss leaders to get large number of people into the store with the hope that they buy something other then the deeply discounted milk butter and bread. pick up in toronto is a business, a dreary one.
Yes TRR, the minorities in tor are pathetic, only the east asian men do not worship the white women, not sure who is worse here, the indian/pakistanis or the blacks, its as if they have one item on their bucket list-a white woman, having one is at the core of their being. I cant stand living here amongst the filth.
Eight years is a very long time for a company to change, especially one of this nature. Imagine someone writing an article today about YOU eight years ago. Obviously you haven’t done much research besides Strauss’ slanted view of Tyler in The Game, and a workshop eight years ago.
They teach the “spam approach” to newbies to condition them quickly to learn how to approach and be okay with rejection, which can and will happen. The mid to upper level material focuses more on inner game and attitude.
I enjoy most of RSD’s material and SOME of your material, but shit like this reminds me of the fact that you didn’t get much play in college, and your writing often reflects that.
I don’t think approaching is restricted solely to PUA’s. Over New Years, all of my friends, none of whom are PUA’s were approaching like zombies and getting shot down left and right.
These guys certainly add an element of bitchiness to women, since they treat them like prized commodities, but the fact of the matter is that young, pretty women have set the bar extremely high.
I’d posit that if you’re not top 5% of guys in terms of overall attractiveness, those being money, physical stature, and personality, then night clubs are a horrible option for you unless you’re looking for scraping the bottom of the barrel. These are the guys who will end up jaded.
Most guys I know are well-aware of what Game is and some basic tenets. Everybody has googled “how to get girls in a bar” at one point or another and they’ve picked up on some material. Guys don’t want to be told that the path to sexual salvation involves years of improving your stock in life.
On a side note, for the more advanced, Owen’s videos(Tyler from RSD) on his youtube channel have been pretty cool, at least for me.
A lot of them are focused on the merger of game and personal development, especially in terms of the mentality that “experienced players” have, or should have, not only about pick up but about life. Highly recommended.
After I read The Game, it naturally followed on to RSD, and I eagerly pirated all of their pickup material for a year or two.
Thin on practical actionable tactics, but heavy on mantras such as “the self is always coming through”, and “feel the glow”, it creates an almost cult-like level of fervent devotion amongst its followers.
I definitely took something away from my dalliance with RSD – discovering Eckhart Tolle helped me to recognise my ego for the negative influence that it was at the time (it’s my best friend now, and bulletproof) – but in general, it’s not very helpful for newbies. “Looks don’t matter at all” – yeah, right, good advice guys.
Any moron can get lucky if they approach enough girls, but actually pulling the ones you genuinely are attracted to is where the skill lies.
I wouldn’t blame it on RSD, Toronto is just full of pedestalized chicks. Girls are getting fatter and more guys are hitting on them – life is sweet for the fatties.
If you are on an island with only fat girls, you will want to fuck the most attractive fat one. She may be disgusting in the beginning, but after a week with no sex you will think about it. That is what many non game guys have to do.
RSD created a small army of serial approachers that have an impact on the nightlife there. I approached many hundreds of chicks. Imagine 2 thousand guys doing 10 approaches, 2 nights a week, that is more than 2 million approaches. That will add up and elevate girl’s egos.
The guys that don’t have game will be worse off because they can’t compete in the arms race.
RSD is not the problem, it’s the symptom.
“but you have to work on yourself, too. You have to lift weights, read, and take on interesting hobbies. You have to improve your overall social skills instead of merely ignoring women’s responses.”
roosh, i do these things, i am these things, but the women i cold approach at night don’t care. at the new year’s event i went to in toronto, i approached 15+ women. i got nothing. to say “work on molding yourself into a truly cool guy” doesn’t help. it doesn’t matter how much of a truly cool guy you are when 80% of your approaches are destined to fail in the first 90 seconds.
Well, to be devils advocate, while using what you describe permanently is insane, the idea behind that sort of shit is not to pickup women, it is to stop them from being afraid of women and to change personality somewhat. While with your brother, if he’s not a dweeb from the start, he’ll only need a few pointers in the right direction. Like we true denialists say, it’s not that game doesn’t exist, it’s that 80% of it can be described on a couple of pages. And for a 16 year old it’s definitely a much better approach and that’s what “having male role models” woes are about. He’s lucky to have you.
Online dating yields better results for me because it works for itself while i’m busy taking care of my interests. I’m lucky to live in the northeast where there are thousands of women to choose from and they jump at the opportunity to find a real man with goals, maturity, and masculinity. My only problem is there are too many women to pursue in a realistic manner. I was even approached to become a prospect for a matchmaking service where successful women choose from a pool of men.
I read your books Roosh and watched the rsd youtube videos and I like what rsd is doing with their stuff lately. They’ve seemed to make it more about constantly improving yourself and make women a secondary focus of a man’s life, which is the way it should be. Getting laid is great, but should never be the be all end all in life.
Partly, what are seeing with rsd is selection bias. The kind of people who gravitate to a program that teaches “looks ( and bynextention other traditional chick pull factors like money and status ) don’t matter” are exactly the ones for whom shotgun approaching is likely the optimal strategy. For Brad Pitt, not so much.
So the Blackie and Paki men are worshipping the ivory goddess?
What about the Black and South Asian WOMEN?
Lonely and unappreciated?
This type of saturation approaching appeals to the MMO gaming subculture. It’s like you can go run quests in World of Warcraft to level up, or you can simply go ‘grind’ on mobs of monsters to get experience.
Sure, you level up, but are you really playing the Game?
more shitting on competitors please
Interesting post. I tend to fall on both sides of the issue here, since I listen to both what Roosh and TD have to say. Even though I have my own style (which, apparently is some sort of hybrid between the two) I will say a few things about what RSD teaches that seems to be misunderstood:
1) The way you’re describing it is what Strauss wanted you to believe about TD and RSD circa 2003 or whenever the book was set. Today they aren’t out there strictly advocating “beastmode shotgun approach everyone in sight with no regard for what you’re actually doing” type shit. If you just apply what Strauss wanted you to believe about RSD from reading The Game, then the result would be a ton of guys described in Toronto running around not knowing how to actually connect with anyone, let alone a girl.
2) I go out in Hollywood quite a bit and I have seen Julien and guys running bootcamps. Even their students, who are presumably more inexperienced than the instructors, it wasn’t noticable that they were doing anything “over the top” that would get them kicked out of the bar. Not saying that couldn’t happen, but they way you described it was like a guy rolling into a bar, mosh pit style, grabbing and yanking around every girl in sight yelling at her to get on her knees lol! Nothing like that.
Go watch new TD videos on youtube if you are going to give a fair critique of what he’s about. Sounds like you’ve taken a sample of his “disciples” who probably aren’t getting laid in Toronto and formed your opinion around that. In all honesty, he (and anyone else that has an ounce of sense about how to connect with a girl) is saying a lot of the same things that you are, albeit in a different voice.
I don’t have any inside track on RSD bootcamps but if that’s how they really are, it’s insane. Total fucking morons.
I do like their DVD products, though.
RSD is a failure because their students don’t get laid.
They teach nerds to mass approach, which causes mass rejection.
If they taught nerds how to have a charming personality BEFORE mass approaching, they would be legit, but they go the other way around.
Mass approaching doesn’t make you cool, seriously. Gay meditation about inner game doesn’t either.
RSD is a cult, because it gives false promises and says it doesn’t work because you’re not sticking with it, which is not true. It’s not the fault of the student when the teaching has no value whatsoever.
Anybody can tell you “go talk to a 1000 girls”.
Is following the RSD method worse than jacking off to porn 2x a day, watching jewish-liberal TV/movies and playing video games? If not, then it’s not hurting young men.
It’s interesting that I basically do the exact opposite of this. I focus on intelligent “target selection,” and on QUALITY approaches over quantity. And, I’m probably more successful–with a fraction of the effort and stress–than a sizable majority of these “human spammers.” I’m afraid that this type of “game” is cannibalizing other men by further polluting an already heavily drained pool of available, serviceable girls. If you think the Western dating scene is shit-show NOW, just wait a few years.
This is the perfect storm.
I think Toronto is the problem. Long before PUA’s ran wild in that city (as well as some other Canadian cities I am familiar with) hope was already lost.
Toronto likes to consider itself the NYC of Canada, or at least that’s definitely what many women believe (just ask them). Sex and the City culture started it and it has just picked up steam from there.
The girl I dated in Toronto for a brief time was easily the worst woman I had ever met. Her friends were just as evil. This was about 6 or 7 years ago (shortly before the book The Game came out). I recall the ex complaining how I didn’t put her up on a pedastal like her ex boyfriends. She also brought up examples of men adoring her friends with ridiculous gifts and attention. That told me then all I needed to know.
Running around hitting on every girl that looks remotely attractive just feeds the machine. The girls have the men trapped there. I can’t see things turning around. I feel bad for any single guy reaching the age of 25 in Toronto. Ditto for large parts of Canada and while we’re at it, large parts of America. However, I’ve never experienced anything like what I saw during my times in Toronto.
That’s really funny because I’ve gotten laid from RSD principles and strategies.
Expecting instant results on their boot camps, while possible, is a sure way to be disappointed.
The point of mass approaching is to increase your failure rate faster so that you can gain more experience and fine-tune your approach.
It’s interesting that you also don’t offer any advice on approaching.
Western men have become completely powerless over women. Just the fact that you have to “learn” to get women is a symptom of that.
Mass cold approaching (mass rejection) is great in that it might open more men’s eyes as to how powerless they have become. Other than that its just like street begging but for pussy which only raises its price.
A better advice for a young man is to get established financially and expat. Don’t follow the herd.
Yo gotta have something the chicks want. Forget self improvement or working out as a means to get skags. Do all of those things for you, not them. To get with the chicks, simply bring a gram of coke; now you’re an instant PUA! Because at some point dignity and self respect has to take precedence over being shot down 1000 times.
QUOTE DILLON: “Mass cold approaching (mass rejection) is great in that it might open more men’s eyes as to how powerless they have become. Other than that its just like street begging but for pussy which only raises its price”
Damned straight. If there is one thing RSD can offer is what Dillon said. It’s perhaps aversion therapy. After a certain number of approaches and instant rejections one will gain a moment of clarity that is very much like that of a drunk who wakes up one too many times in his own vomit. It’s then he will realize the problem is not him, but man hating cultures.
Sometimes I wonder if members of the so called “manosphere” even GO OUT anymore. Some women will reject you no matter what. Some will just like you.
All of this “red pill” and “blue pill” nonsense is starting to really turn me off to many blogs. It seems like bloggers are devoting too much time to bitching about how women suck and how other educational sources suck and how society sucks, and offering less and less actionable advice. More stuff like what Bold & Determined has, and less whining and bitching RooshV “waaaaahhhh flipflops” shit.
On New Years friends called in a favour and asked me to be “Face Control” at a upscale club. I got booted and suited for the job which is far different from the usual meathead /roid approach that most clubs take these days…I was draped in women all night and all morning, free drinks, greased the crowed for $500 and went home with a hot Asian chick (I’m not into Asians but she was smoking). There are many ways to skin the cat, Gentlemen I present you with method #18364AB3. Send the cheque to Roosh.
This trend is the natural result of oversupply of RSD type approach and the marketplace.
PUA tactics are failing because the market is now saturated with PUA running quite the same game. So, the female demand for attention and entertainment is now on the decline. What worked before worked brilliantly. But now all but the most remote and undiscovered venues have seen game and had game run on it’s population.
Just like with the over-perscription of antibiotics, too much of a good thing has led to resistance, and new super-bug type resistance to game has developed as the female population is adapting to the new norm.
As more and more guys understand game and try to use it, they’ll do so with diminishing returns. Females are becoming immune to it. They read the manosphere as well and disseminate our best intelligence at 10x the speed we’re acquiring new ways to attack.
Is it possible that were going to hit saturation, at which point perfect game results in a frustrating night of masturbation? I see it coming.
Women are an organism made up of individual females. They’re simply adapting and putting up super-cockblock and super-bitch shield type resistance to the old, overused vaccinations. Maybe penicillin still works in palces that have never seen antibiotics, but now days we must rely on a whole host of very powerful drugs to have the same affect.
So it is with game. Take game to places where it’s not as saturated, adapt it, and it still works. However, the Internet has brought the world together with just a few clicks. And I imagine that non-western women will become westernized simply by reading the utter crap spewed by the west on the blogosphere.
The only long-term solution as I see it is to upset the supply and demand ratios so that women will understand the NEED for men, and treat them as the special commodity we are. Unfortunately, as long as the M/F ratios are fairly equal (within 5%) and most of the males are betas, which by definition it always will be, then we’ll have to look for a “miracle cure” to treat the disease of western feminism.
I don’t think RSD actually pushes students to approach THAT crazily, but Tyler from RSD says virtually in every video that he’s been going out 7 nights a week for the past 11 or 12 years. That’s just not possible for 99% of people.
Tyler has one very good saying that all guys in the game need to listen to, that newbies should put down all their internet reading and spend their first year in the game approaching a lot.
I’ve met a large number of guys in “the community”, a lot of them virtually never approach but keep accounts on game forums and have overly bitter attitudes towards women despite never having had any actual bad experiences with them that you’d expect would warrant that. The culprit is reading too much Heartiste.
While going out as heavily as some RSD guys do is crazy and unhealthy, a lot of guys in this side of the game community don’t approach very much. There needs to be a happy medium.
Sidenote: There’s a lot of very valuable stuff in RSD’s Free Tour videos on Youtube that more Roosh readers ought to check out.
Approaching like a machine is a fear that betas (and most people in society) need to get over. You know the old saying, you lose 100% of the chances you never take.
Heck, even the 5% guys have approach anxiety.
The sales analogy holds here. To get started, you cold call and network like crazy. Once you’ve done your work, leads and business start to come in. After you’ve been in business awhile, the old leads bring in new leads. Once you achieve a certain level of success you don’t even need to cold call anymore, but you still should.
It keeps you sharp.
One other thing that hasn’t been mentioned here that’s pretty darn important. Looks, style and personality. Working out and developing interests is great, but you really have to know how to push the right buttons to get the result you want.
I’m not gonna go into detail, you’ll need to figure it out. Just working out and developing an interest in Jazz music and Italian cooking isn’t going to cut it, i’m sorry.
That style will always come across as lewd. I’m not even sure it will get you over “proper” approach anxiety because it sounds like it lacks any foundation.
“Yes TRR, the minorities in tor are pathetic, only the east asian men do not worship the white women, not sure who is worse here, the indian/pakistanis or the blacks, its as if they have one item on their bucket list-a white woman, having one is at the core of their being. I cant stand living here amongst the filth.”
You sound like a desperate Chink.
Indians are either Aryan or Dravidian. The 500 million or so Aryans are Indo-European people whose holiest symbols are shubh/lal/swastikas and whose holy books are the (rg)Eddas, same as the Norse Eddas. There are another 500 million or so Dravidians who speak Tamil and are from the South.
Toronto has both kinds.
Pakistanis are Muslim muds.
And Asians ? Those are mongoloids, barely even human. Why on earth would they even be considered by caucasian (let alone aryan) women ?
There are worse places than Toronto (take Brussels, Copenhagen or Dubai as example). You should also make the difference between the mentality of the people and the M/F ratios. RSD-style can still work if you have only bad ratios, which explains the existence of pua’s in Toronto. If it would be totally unsuccessful then they would stop doing it. In Copenhagen or Brussels you will not find many pua’s but despite the good ratios cold approaching is not socially accepted.
@ 28 great post.
Toronto seems to fall under pareto law, 80% of the women want 20% of the men. Women are simply looking to latch onto “Mr Big” who will profess his dying love for a ugly “Carrie”.
The RSD method seems silly to me, it is similar to a nigerian money scam. Sure you are going to get takers but what are they going to be like.
Toronto is hard, sorry damn hard. You have to be very creative, find a niche, take a course, take salsa lessons, take cooking lessons, visit art shows or my favourite university libraries to study.
Logistics: Move to a neighborhood going through gentrification. There will always be more professional/grad student women than men, and the hoodlum/thugs lurking about encourages the chicks to try to find a decent boyfriend very fast. I could not believe the amount of girls who “elderly opened” me at cafes and bars the first week I moved here (an area of Brooklyn,NYC that shall remain nameless). I really feel sorry for guys who are not following Rooshes’ advice.
That’s the good and bad with RSD. I have a close wing whose touring with RSD and becoming a protege, and he’s good, but he’s dedicating everything to RSD. RSD is a cult, but the guys I’ve met from RSD are the coolest most normal dudes out of all other schools of thoughts in PUA.
Very interesting. Lots going on here..
I recently discovered RSD. Lots of cool videos and articles.
Obviously, approaching alot is important in the beginning to get over the fear and build some experience. But, over time, we should be able to get results from less approaches.
My opinion is that Tyler is actually into self help more then sex. He sells the feeling and actualization of empowerment and fearlessness. That is his business -giving guys confidence and a sense of power. (not necessarily getting laid)
He uses approaching as a confidence building and fear removing tool.
There is a bit of a cult aspect but hey, same with Nike, Starbucks, and Apple.
That being said, too many guys approaching, too much in a small areas = bad for game and bad for all guys!
Quality over quantity.
RSD sucks. making every night like holidays. it’s for amateurs.
I have tremendous respect for the freakish abilities, theory and pace of evolution of RSD instructors, and at the same time agree 100% with what you’re saying here. Well said.
Quality over quantity. Just like car sales it’s all about the closing ratio. Forget pounding the pavement when you can hone your skills and work smarter instead of harder.
One problem that can crop up when you’re meeting lots of people is your disposition isn’t as together as it should be.
If you’re going from woman to woman, odds are you’re going to be so hopped up on adrenaline that you’re going to come off like a wild-eyed high school kids. Women will be put off. Everyone will be put off. This will have the counter-effect of harming your overall game.
Better to work on niche game: what works best for your personality/looks combo. Even if a city is hellish, some approaches have to work better than others.
I’m with the person above who mentioned “elderly game.” Asking questions/advice generally is a good way to rope women into convos. Lots of women gravitate towards jobs where they help others, like teachers and nurses. Guys should play on this instinct of helpfulness for openers, even if it’s something stupid like “Where’s the bathroom?” or “What time is it?”(Lines that worked for me, BTW.)
If you notice, only young guys, virgins, and noobs are attracted to RSD, why? because they cannot tell the difference between what is real and fake.
You notice no real player respect RSD. You notice guys like Samseau, El Mech, Harry Holigan are absent from this conversation….there is a reason, they do not respect RSD game, until one of those guys give the green light, you need to realize there is something wrong with RSD…..
And one more thing, I notice no one on RVF has been on a RSD bootcamp….Ive been on one, as a guest instructor, and I found the truth its all lies
“I saw them approach girls with guys.”
This tactic could easily result in a lot worse than a failed pickup if it’s the wrong dude.
Man, this just sucks. It sounds like everyone else reporting about their new years saw what I saw. It’s borderline hopeless without some genetic luck these days. I work out alot, lift heavy, in great shape, train MMA, make good money, definitely funny and confident in conversation (trust me on this), but it’s not enough. If you don’t have a chiseled face and aren’t over 6′, it’s all for not. Yeah I get laid sometimes, but the women are not particularly cute, not even close to being in the shape i’m in, boring, bitchy, entitled, and shady (somehow I’m still not good enough and they’ll screw around at the drop of a hat). Even the slores are acting like this. It’s why I don’t apply myself more. I’m not too big into materialistic shit and live below my means, so I have no additional motivation to work harder than to make the few ends I have meet. I know it’s a rant, but just let me have this one moment to vent.
Deep down I know it’s just the natural order taking it’s place again. The top few get the most and the rest get scraps to nothing. It’s entropy, all systems breakdown. The courtship systems of western civilization that aided in its ascension, even the government systems are breaking down. The universe tends towards disorder, I guess I shouldn’t expect the dating game to be any different. Sorry if I depressed anyone.
Its not you. Even if you are the best fisherman in the world with the best equipment money can buy, you won’t catch any fish if there’s no fish there to catch. There are only so many variables you can control if your location sucks.
this is the first time i remember reading one big time pua system (roosh) critiquing another pua system (rsd).
i use the word critiquing because it’s a thought out, calm, rational analysis. roosh isn’t just “hating on” rsd, he is carefully and thoughtfully and logically explaining what he dislikes about their methods.
i had no idea.
i agree with krauser, though, i think tyler’s dvds are great. the blueprint is excellent — if you start from the end.
if livin in toronto combine rsd with roosh trainin
Get jacked,read,do 100 approches(to improve social skills) and haave a hobby(boxing,singin,dancin,languages,music,etc)….all this for passive game(dhv)
Then at the venues go rsd as ur active game
In Toronto the problem with measuring your results with every approach is the massive rate of rejection or cockblocks you’ll have in a lot of Toronto venues. However each night there will be some interactions that you stay in and you can learn a lot from those.
The way to improve is to combine massive approaching with learning off the interactions that actually get going beyond their initial bitch shield.
The RSD style is not ideal, however elements of it combined with other styles of game and also self improvement can lead to results in places like Toronto.
I don’t know about Toronto, but I sarge in London and it’s the same here.
You can work on yourself, being cool, ripped, rich, etc. it just barely improves your close ratio. Just approach like crazy and it will work.
The best guys here have like 50% #-close ratio with all kinds of girls. I don’t know what’s their fclose ratio, but I think it won’t go above 10% of #-closes.
Stop being smartass – you also did yours ’1000 sets of hell’ here.
What are all the red fanboys doing here? Come on roosh, moderate.
[...] Is RSD Hurting Young Men? [...]
“It’s borderline hopeless without some genetic luck these days. I work out alot, lift heavy, in great shape, train MMA, make good money, definitely funny and confident in conversation (trust me on this), but it’s not enough. If you don’t have a chiseled face and aren’t over 6′, it’s all for not”
Same for me. Don’t have much luck either. But I’m going to tell you one thing. My willingness to jump through a hundred-and-one hoops just to get noticed by some self-absorbed hag is declining by the minute.
Approaching hundreds of girls takes a lot of time. Is it really worth it? What do they have to offer besides a warm hole and some ‘bags of sand’? On one hand you have guys who center their entire existence around self-improvement, and on the other you have those Western girls who aren’t that much different from a heated fleshlight. Except a lot less annoying.
There are a lot of guys complaining and venting here! Chill out and do your approaches guys!
If you live in a place where demographics and ratio is bad, I’m sorry but it’s not going to get easier.
Yes doing 10000 approaches will make chicks more entitled and arrogant, but what else are you going to do?
The clock is ticking and every year you get older. Nobody ever got anything from complaining and crying like a loser.
Massive approaching is the way to go in cities like Toronto.
One thing that helps me a lot is have a sexy girl as a fuck buddy, it keeps me from going crazy and needy.
I lived in Toronto from 2009 till 2011, and boy is my experience different from what I’m reading here.
I have NEVER had girls throwing themselves at me like they did in Toronto. and I’ve lived in a couple of (Western) countries. the girls were extremely slutty and would change fuckbuddies often. In bed, I got the impression they were aiming to imitate pornstars. One drunk girls burst out, upon seing my dick, “god I want your beautiful cock!”, proceeding to moan dramatically (it seemed really fake to me). toronto also remains the only place in the world where girls would give me their numbers without me asking, from time to time. and all of this was before I learnt about game. (Which, as one commenter put it, can all be written down on about 15 pages, and that’s it, anyway).
to be fair, I think this is because of my pseudo-British accent and “sophisticated” European aura. girls in other parts of North America also really dig this, but not as much as in Toronto.
I guess this makes me one of lucky guys.
If you have to humiliate yourself to this extend just to get the slightest, and often negative, attention from the opposite sex..then something is wrong.
Gentleman… Just be glad you weren’t born with a wet bleeding hole between your legs.
Life is short, live it for YOURSELF and the pussy will appear. Gain experiences. Increase your experiential knowledge. Follow your passions. Blow through your comfort zones. A mental exercise: That sexy piece of ass you’re lusting after and ready to lose your self-respect as a man over?… visualize her after she has pushes out 3 kids, gains an extra 100 pounds and cultivates a nice light mustache… it could happen. Stop chasing other human beings….and NEVER project your desperate hallucinations and/or imbue false qualities on to another flawed human being.
Do these things and you’ll start to become free.
And remember…. Be careful what you wish for because you might end up with it. For every hot chick there is always some dude that is sick of dealing with her. Truth.
@65 ramen just stfu
Ironically enough, the solution to the Toronto problem probably consists guys leaving Toronto en masse.
“You can work on yourself, being cool, ripped, rich, etc. it just barely improves your close ratio. Just approach like crazy and it will work.”
this, basically. all the american guys here touting ‘quality approaches’ and ‘target selection’ need to STFU. nightlife isn’t a reliable way to meet cute girls in toronto, period. if you were a loser in your teens and early twenties and didn’t build up a social circle (as is the case with most PUAs), then you’re fucked.
At Ramen, #65 – one major point of these blogs ISN’T that the game sucks worse now for everyone, it’s that the average guys are getting DESTROYED when all the hotties are aiming for the few top percenters. Your experiences are completey consistent with this.
Again, you’re complaining about a company, when you do the exact same thing to some extent. Probably going to nuke my comment, but you’re going to read this and that’s all that matters.
The way women behave is economical – i.e. the amount of approaches and sexual validation they receive determines how they view men: The Imagined Romantic versus The Weak Predictable Aggressor. You’re always coming up with similar conclusions, and I bet one of your favourite cities no longer has the same responses and same behaviors it would have 6 months ago because the market is diluted. As much as you want to use feminism as a scape goat for bad-female-behavior, women do not embrace in such activism unless the Agressive-Spammer exists.
Rather than think of RSD being a causal effect for the demise of Toronto, you should look at whether the sex-economic variables of Toronto enables a community such that relies on RSD-style pickup to flourish.
I think your style of books: Bang Lithuania, Bang Poland, are considerably more harmful because they encourage men to dilute markets, create a shit storm with the press, and push men to certain locations at particular times where all the efforts concurrently will be cancelled out by the sheer number of approaches a woman experiences a day.
A Polish girl is not intrinsically nice. There is nothing in her culture which is qualitatively different that makes her more amicable and responsive to conversation. Or that there doesn’t exist any jezebels who are encouraging her to be a misandrist. It is the sheer and simple fact that her neurological responses shift gear when she views the reasonable man as a “Pathetic Aggressor” rather than an “Imagined romancer” and this is purely determined by an economic variable. When the supply of compliments are exhausted, the humble surprise and mysterious man is later revealed to be generic, predictable and needy.
Snow is beautiful, but after a month of it, it’s just annoying.
My guess is that the existence of a ‘PUA Hate’ culture is really because there are a constituency of guys who have handed over money to the PUA ‘gurus’ amidst being promised results that they they never achieved. These are the guys who go on those forums.
At the heart of it all lies a paradox.
The main thing that the gurus can teach is to technique and logistics but they cant do much about the end product. It’s still going to be very tough for a 5ft 2 greasy haired, spotty and ugly guy whose only interest in life is the RS232 interface lead or reading Terry Pratchett books.
However, the gurus insist that it is all about an internal mindset, being alpha isn’t about money, looks, status etc etc. They do this because it’s the easiest way to convince the pupil to hand over money. They are after all ‘gamers’. The student dutily complies because he has just been told what he wants to hear. ‘You too can bang chicks and here is how…’.
It strikes me that the best thing that can be done with the average, deperate student really is to get him to make loads of approachs. The ones who have some ability or value will drop their approach ratios in time as they get results. The hopeless cases will just drop out and hate anyway. However-and this is the key marginal- some of them will slowly learn and ‘get it’ in the end, but it will take them time and loads of approachs. If they dont make loads of approachs they will never learn and then turn into the haters.
Guys, let’s not beat up on other men trying to make lots of decent, respectful (I’m not talking about a group of thugs gaping at a girl on the street and saying ‘damn, she-eet looking good home girl’ etc) approachs because they want to get laid, just because they are terrible at it.
Our foe are the feminists, the high beta saps, the beta orbiters and the real alpha males whose vested interests are to keep these horrible cultural trends going.
The latter are the real cunts not some guy trying to better his game and lose approach anxiety by making loads of approachs.
When I was in college in the 90′s (THE 1990S!!!..the last supposed “golden age” of nice guys being able to get girls, pre-internet, pre-iphone, pre-PUA) I worked out in the college gym everyday, I was cock-diesel ripped, I was considered by many of my friends to be smart, funny, (active in theater and campus politics), and my liberal arts campus was in the middle of the woods, with more women than men, and STILL, I managed to only get laid twice or once a semester. I am actually getting more attention now from 20yr olds now that I’m in my 40s, in less shape, but applying Rooshe’s methods. You can be ripped, have traveled the world, with advanced degrees in metaphysics, but if you 1) don’t have the confidence to approach the girl you want 2) don’t “elderly open” her and converse 3) don’t instill in her a sense of both TENSION and Familiarity (ditch that “cocky&funny” nonsense, what rubbish that PUA artist Dave use to spam us with) and finally 4) have the tenacity to CLOSE, and if you fail, oh well, NEXT chick (and enjoy the experience for what it was, cuz life is short), YOU WILL NEVER GET LAID. Things have not changed. I wish I knew in the 1990s what I know now. I would go to parties, looking buff, but it was fat John Belushie/Chris Farley types, out of shape, but lots of fun, who would be pulling chicks who just wanted to hook up with someone fun. Things have not changed. trust me.
you guys forgot 2 things:
1. western women are protected by law and police
2. women have careers and $ (if not, the gov. supplies them with $)
Result? women will DOMINATE guys.
better get used to it, or leave the West.
Just stay home and jerk off. If girls don’t want you they don’t want you. We can’t all be winners.
Your role as protector or provider is gone in the West. Got it?
Want sex? How about she raping you in your players ass just for fun? Oh yeah, you can still buy her jewellery, luxury bags and so on.
But sexually, you’re just entertainment or a clown to exploit. Want a pussy? Better learn how to SERVE them… :))
Funny, not many girls are aware of
I attended RSD World Summit last year in Vegas.
It was like 35 hours of seminar for 7 straight days.
Heard from all the RSD instructors and believe me
they all preached more on lifestyle (gym, social circle, reading, hobbies, purpose in life, diet and nutrition, laying off
alcohol/drugs, etc) then anything
else. Todd even said “running around approaching
30 sets to find the one girl who is DTF is NOT game.”
Yes Tyler and some of the others are big proponents of “momentum”
but he says going out 7 nights a week is going out for 30 minutes doing a couple of approaches for 4 nights then going hard on weekends. Blaming RSD for the Toronto scene is
absurd! Yes some have taken the whole “beastmode”
to literally. (Jeffy even has an article on this called
Beastmode is Dead or something like that)
Most young guys don’t have a “guru” brother who’s going to help
them. So they gotta learn the hard way and I think Tyler does
a great job of constantly addressing that in his vids.
RSD employees are working extra hours today typing comments on this post on how great a guy TD is. I however am of the opinion they should change the company name to RSG, meaning real social gayness, since it’s all very gay what they are doing. Very very gay. If you can’t see how gay it is, you are probably gay yourself, just saying.
I find it extremely hard to read the comments from people complaining about “minorities”. As a somewhat well-travelled individual I just wanted to point out that complaining about “minorities” instantly tells a lot about you. It almost guarantees that you have never left your home country and are either poor, uneducated, or just sheltered. It also practically guarantees that you only speak one language.
In any case, I probably qualify as a minority to these people because I’m black and white and I’d gotta tell you that I don’t have some sort of difficulty getting with “white women”. I dated them exclusively for a long time back in the states. Where i’m at now these people would be the minorities.. it’s actually pretty fun to mess with them because they only speak English.
Massive amounts of effort to get rejected by landwhales who think they deserve Tom Brady. The one hottie in any group “protected” by women who weigh more than an NBA power forward. Welcome to the bar & club scene, fellas.
Real Social Douchebags
RSD is not about beating your head into the wall doing approaches and getting rejected until you find a girl who’s DTF. It’s about being your best self and stepping up, not running around like a chicken with its head cut off like you imply.
As far as the hobo 30 day challenge and the guy who’s quitting his job for PU go, those are things that guys with serious psychological issues would do, and are frowned upon by guys who aren’t socially retarded. There obviously are a lot of guys with emotional and mental problems polluting the forum with stupid shit, but they are not representative of the message RSD is teaching.
Everyone bitching about Toronto being full of fat chicks and all that other weird shit obviously do not go out very often lol. I’ve been out there twice this year, once for Bassnectar and the other at the Madison and I macked on and madeout with soooo many cuties. I think the PU culture up there is pretty awesome too. I was talking to four girls and this random dude just walked up and winged me with the three other girls and I just isolated the hottie that made me approach the group in the first place (who I ended up banging later that night). I went up to Toronto both times completely solo, I’m not 6 feet tall, I weigh 140 pounds, and I’m not rich. Crazy shit huh? Saw Julien talking to girls and coming into one of my sets too, that dude is the real deal.
All of you fags saying RSD lies and you have to be 6 feet tall and model like to bang girls make me laugh. How exactly is thinking you’re awesome and going hard a lie?
Don’t mean to post off-topic comments, but the subject of Toronto has been weighing on my mind and this latest post seals my concerns. I was planning to move downtown as I assumed that’s where the action was and I’d get a place that would work well for me, logistically-speaking. Reading about Roosh’s difficulties and other horror stories over the past few days, my batting average would be next to nothing, I’ve way too new to all of this…
I need to remain in the GTA, I can’t get away just yet, so for anyone living or familiar with Toronto, please give me your advice: what part of the GTA would you consider most preferable to live in? Is Mississauga any better or is it still just as bad? Man, this is depressing.
Not saying you have to have those things to bang girls, or at least not to the model like degree, but you still have to have a pretty decent face. Maybe I’m just ugly. I don’t know what you look like but I’ve noticed alot of the guys underplaying the ‘looks’ thing are already decent to good looking whether they realize it or not, so maybe you fall into this category.
As for the walking around thinking you’re awesome, I can tell you’re from a more upscale (relatively anyways) part of society. It doesn’t fly in alot of places. You’ll get tested physically (I live near a military base. Occasionaly you see the non-military city kid PUA trying to act like the shit and the women put you in a position to prove it).
Now going hard I agree with, but if you’re getting rejected hard (not just quantity, but the severity of the rejection) often, it wears on you. If this isn’t happening to you, then you’re probably better looking than you think.
Trust me, if you met me in person you wouldn’t think I think like this. My confidence in dealing with people comes from being aware of my flaws and being okay with them. However, they’re still flaws no matter how you handle them.
And those flaws do have limitations regardless of how you conduct yourself.
“While I completely agree with the sentiment of the article, It’s hard to know with Toronto-Occupied-Ontario if RSD is the problem or just a symptom. The odds are just so stacked against a single guy in that place. The women really aren’t from very good stock no matter where their ancestors came from, are fat, and have a welfare state ready to cater to their every whim while being able to shop at near American prices, while the guys are often very tall, well educated, with good personalities, who have to deal with horrible logistics due to out of control real estate prices and awful transportation. I get the feeling that self improvement, while a good thing to do, might show very little return with women there.
I remember going to a high end restaurant near Bay St. and the owner was greeting customers that night. The guy, no exaggeration, looked like a young, cleaned up version of Fabio with a hair cut in business casual. If it had been the bartender, that would have made some sense to me but everything that I’ve heard about being an owner is that it’s not a pleasant job besides getting access to cute waitresses. When I meet owners or GMs in DC, they are usually average looking guys at most.”
So Toronto is the place to go for us American gals to find hot guys then?
I live in Toronto , and women here pretend the last thing they care about is getting a man . they all have an active sex life, in the same time they live as singles , so I think most of them is just baning a hot guys and pretend infront of other men as if sex didnt even comes to their mind so men feel bad about them selves , it is kind of emotional castration, when a man feel he is out of re-production game . I think RSD was good when they teach their students in Toronto to not care of what woman think because these women try to destroy and Castrate any man their hands or eyes reach .
they are full of man hating . but other small cities is better you can find a nice blonde that want to have a dominant husband and have kids, but you have to be white to pass to them
That every woman is a princess
Every beta man can be an alpha.
Buying what RSD and Heartiste is selling is no different than what the fattie princesses are buying.
Theres a reason the birthrate in the GTA is 0.7. Men and women are totally atomized in this city and people rarely interact for any length of time.
The evolution of PUA is starting to resemble that of the UFC. In the early underground stages, each martial art school put out their best fighters, and the winners bragged about their style, reigning supreme temporarily (brazilian Jiu-jitsu in the early era. Once the competition was popularized, a convergence of the arts came into play, and now very few fighters can even step into the big leagues without having a fundamental basis in mixed martial-arts.
RSD gets a lot of flack for its cultish following, but when it comes to active game, the top guys over there get more ass than a toilet seat.
Roosh, either you are really naive enough to just take “some college kids” interpretation of RSD as the truth, or you are taking a cheap shot at competition. Either way, the version of RSD you present is a total straw man, not the reality if you actually took the time to research to what their instructors are teaching, which isn’t radically different from what you teach, except sometimes with a different terminology and perhaps slightly more focused on psychological aspects of game. You can’t just take what some “college kid” said and accept that as the true representation of RSD (unless he was himself an RSD instructor?), without verifying it with your own research into their own sayings about their actual core principles.
That’s like taking me taking some random fanboys interpretation of you and just accepting it, writing a blog post about you that completely misrepresents you. It would be a mistake. You always risk misunderstanding or misinterpreting people, but that risk is substantially higher when you put no effort into gaining knowledge from which to base your interpretation.
By the way, I am not saying that out of hate; I enjoy your blog and have even purchased your book, Roosh, so I just find it pretty disappointing to see you posting such a simplistic and crude misrepresentation of a rival PUA company.
not really sure why ppl are having trouble getting pussy in toronto. the women here are mad easy in my books and i do incredible numbers in this city. i grew up here so maybe im not seeing it from other ppls perspective but ive never complained about lack of women in this city. it just requires that you actually have ‘game’ and arent some knockoff who read a few books. theres alot of guys who are doing their thing in toronto and the women like those guys. bottom line is you have to step your game up or get stepped on. dont cry about it, get better. and dont blame toronto chicks for not fucking you lames.
Wow, I liked this roosh guy and sympathized with him when the feminists attacked him. But after reading this he can fuck himself… I hope the feminists rip your balls off OP lol
This is interesting, I have aspergers, so the RSD method used to work for me. Then I find a real gf :). She love me good for many year. Then she cheat on me.
I was mad. Real mad. I think game is hurt. Then I find Roosh V and Roissy and I practice my Roosh V’s and guess what. Guess who has new pussy to squirt seeds in? This nigga right here.
Thank you Roosh V, don’t listen to hater fags. :).
@ really Kalem!
One word ” princess”
Hateful ignorant opinions about RSD. Just like frustrated virgins rant about women. And this is a pickup teacher?? NEXT
LOL some guys logic kill me.
Toronto girls can fuck so much they do not even care anymore. So it is so hard for guys to get them now.
Basic math dudes: There are roughly the same ammount of men and women. You require one of each to make the sex happen. Therefore, women and men fuck the exact same on average! HOLY FUCKING SHIT, WHAT I JUST DISCOVERED!
Males competing for women is bad. It’s not bad because I hate competing with other males, far from it. It’s not bad because men need to learn pick up artistry, go to the gym and tidy themselves up.
It’s bad because the more sexual-validation a woman gets from reasonable men, the more her personality corrupts with time. I’m surprised you haven’t realised this.
Keep writing your bang books which target cities that are considerably listed on the “World Heritage Listed” sites of Game, and complain about an already diluted cockfest such as Toronto and blame a company who is a bi-product of the supply/demand ratio. You’re all guilty.
Roosh man, you’re a lot wiser now and you have a lot more life experience. A lot of us admire your courage. The goal of a man’s life is to improve his station in life, and this process takes perseverance – young men can sometimes get stuck in a rut doing grunt work believing it’s the right thing to do, especially when it comes recommended by someone they admire. Critical thinking and questioning their beliefs may help some, but few of us do that autonomously. Bang was a simple and powerful book where you showed you cared about the reader. Your wisdom could benefit guys who want to follow a balanced approach. It may be a good time to put out a comprehensive update to ‘Bang.’
Fuck rsd and all the wankers on here defending it.
Eff it, I’m stuck inside tonight so here’s a breakdown through your actual “article” lol for the guys who aren’t “plugged in” to RSD and might base their opinion of it on yours instead of researching for themselves:
“It’s the only city I’ve been to where the girls are more concerned with getting late-night food than getting men.”
This happens in a lot of major cities. I currently live in one that’s like that now. It’s not a big deal, you can go with them for late-night food and hang with their friends and then extract them. It’s called socializing and making friends instead of being a creepy sniper jumping out of the shadows hoping to snare a girl away lol A solid understanding of Mystery Method and his Group Theory is a good backbone to learning RSD game. RSD to open and build attraction fast, Mystery Method to build it solid and work the groups and extract your girl or set up a solid time bridge for a Day 2 lay.
“About eight years or so I was invited to review a workshop they had in DC. All I remember is that the instructors, specifically Tyler, approached a lot.”
1) The game has changed in *8 YEARS* lol Take another Bootcamp or watch their in-field footage or read their bootcamp reviews.
2) Tyler still approaches a lot, but he runs a business all week and is naturally a pretty hard case in terms of being social so his system is to approach a bunch to get himself out of his head and into a fun mood. A lot of guys who have non-social full-time jobs (working in an office etc. VS working as a bartender) have this “I’m not feeling talkative” problem too…Tyler gives guys a specific step-by-step method for breaking out of it and getting into state.
“I saw them approach girls with guys, girls sitting down at tables, and other scenarios that had a low probability of success. They didn’t care.”
This is how you 1) learn to handle cockblocks, mother hens, boyfriends, bad logistics, awkward standing/sitting arrangements, etc., and 2) break through limiting beliefs (“wow she was talking on her phone when I approached and I still got her number, I guess that’s not a big deal after all!”)
The reason a lot of you Manosphere guys can’t handle the infamous “mother hens” in these big cities is because you don’t approach these kinds of “low probability of success” situations and learn how to plow through them. In some Euro country you don’t have any competition, so it’s easy. In some larger cities here, even if you get a girl away from her friends at 2am, you have an onslaught of dudes and tough logistics to contend with while you try to flag down a cab. You guys would lose your girls there, whereas a solid RSD guy will keep his girl because he’s already learned to deal with mixed sets and boyfriends and taking girls from guys etc.
“They push you to approach every single available girl just to lose the fear of approaching”
Yes, you paid $X thousand dollars for a bootcamp for them to make you do this. Part of it is showing you that you won’t die if you approach everything in a bar, there’s no real consequence, the world won’t end, so that helps shatter the limiting belief that there’s some limit to how many approaches you can/should do. Meanwhile you Manosphere guys go to DC and sit at a table all night talking about how impressive you all are, and then do 2 or 3 approaches and bitch about mother hens cockblocking you and girls wanting to get late-night food.
“and even if the girl isn’t feeling you or showing signs of disinterest, you must “plow” through as if her response doesn’t matter.”
Yes. You can VERY OFTEN turn these girls around. You would know that if you tried it, but you don’t try it because you give up as soon as you get any kind of resistance and you don’t have a tool-set that allows you to know HOW to turn it around. You basically go up and if she isn’t into you immediately you run away instead of pushing a little further and seeing if you can save the set.
“Him and his crew are plugged into RSD teachings”
Awesome, this will be reliable.
“He told me that to get laid in Toronto you need to spam approach until you get lucky with a girl where you aren’t cockblocked by the “mother hen” dominated social circles.”
lol Unfortunately I know where he’s coming from. See Mystery Method was all about group theory and working social circles and dealing with the “mother hen” cockblocks and all that shit. It was about creating opportunities to work girls by working the set and diffusing all that. And it was REALLY good at it.
Unfortunately, as the MSM caught on, everyone made fun of the “fuzzy hat game” and now young guys stay far away from learning MM. Instead they go learn RSD, where they end up having to mass-approach because they don’t have the MM knowledge to deal with cockblocks. Ideally these guys should be studying Mystery Method to go with their RSD skills, but everyone shits on Mystery now so they won’t learn it. Guaranteed your college kid who’s “plugged in” hasn’t read/practiced Mystery Method.
Think of it like MMA: You’ve got stand-up and ground work. RSD is like boxing, but you can’t just go in with that or you’ll get taken to the ground and be fucked. MM is the ground work for those tougher situations when the fight doesn’t end in a few punches.
All the top RSD instructors are super well-versed in Mystery Method and they’re actually executing it when they run their RSD game, but it’s really subtle and not blatant like it used to be so new guys can’t really tell. There’s a couple videos where Tyler and Jeffy talk about “crossing the t’s and dotting the i’s” of doing all the little things that solidify the pickup (most of these things are from MM).
“RSD also encourages guys to approach full time by doing it daily, hitting astonishingly high approach counts each week.”
Ya, they’re helping shy socially awkward guys learn to socialize. The more they throw themselves into it, the better. You can gain the same social experience that a Natural got in 10 years in just 1 year by going out and hitting the pavement a lot. From there you can tone it down and chill. When I started I was going out 4-6 nights a week for a couple years (this can just be 20 min of opening on the street, or a full night of clubbing). Now I just go out on the weekends because I have other shit to do and I have the social skills and seduction skills to not need to approach 100 sets a week.
“I had trouble believing that for many guys, this is what game has been reduced to.”
You’re just making excuses here. Game hasn’t changed. Opening is more difficult in bigger cities, and it’s required new tech to make it work, and these guys have to mass-approach to get the experience needed to plow through the obstacles that you don’t run into in quiet friendly Euro countries.
It’s like saying “I can’t believe self-defense has been reduced to training daily and fighting in the UFC.” It’s like no, self-defense is still self-defense, but if you want to compete in the UFC you have to do more than hit a dojo twice a week.
“They’ve created mindless approach machines who regularly get kicked out of night spots and stopped by security in malls.”
A lot of this is just gung-ho newbies not using their brain. Tyler and his crew aren’t getting thrown out of bars, neither am I or the guys I know who do pickup. This is newbies going “Tyler said not to give a fuck so I’m going to shove this bouncer around because I don’t give a fuck!!” because they’re not thinking critically.
If Tyler’s group is guilty of anything, it’s of overestimating the intelligence and rational thought their target-audience is capable of lol
“The burnout is so high and the upheaval to the self of an RSD student is so extreme that many become game denialists for life, and are actually less likely to succeed with women had they adopted a more balanced approach to getting laid.”
Like I say, I think guys should check out Mystery Method, Juggler, and RSD, and get a full range of skills. But it’s not RSD’s fault that guys don’t search out more information or clue in that “maybe if I keep getting thrown out of nightclubs, I’m doing something wrong and should study more”.
“you have to work on yourself, too. You have to lift weights, read, and take on interesting hobbies.”
RSD encourages all of this these days. I can link you a dozen videos/seminars where they encourage guys to do all that and have a well-rounded life.
“You have to improve your overall social skills instead of merely ignoring women’s responses.”
You mean like not learning how to befriend a mother hen, and join a social circle in going for food after the bar in a big city? :P
“Compare that to my reader who considers a “warmup” to be 10 approaches in the first 15 minutes of entering a club.”
Each guy is different. There’s nothing wrong with warming up and getting in state. You stretch before a workout. You guys are too worried about looking cool, so you stroll in all James Bond style and order your scotch on the rocks and pull up a table and look down your nose at everyone around you as you discuss how accomplished and amazing you are and how none of the girls are up to your standards.
You guys are boring lol Like, I’m sorry. I’m not being mean, but you’re not out-going social guys that come off as fun at the bar. You SHOULD be opening more, and getting in a good state…you won’t run into as many mother hens when you’re the fun social guy talking to everyone instead of the table of old snobby men lowering themselves to interact with the common-folk.
“Another RSD student did a “30 day challenge” where if he didn’t get laid with going out in that month, he would sleep on the street with homeless people.”
Do you seriously think Tyler or any instructors told this guy to sleep on the street with homeless people if he can’t get laid in a month? Like, really? Or do you think this is a guy who said “I learned to kick in Karate so now I kick babies in the face!!” and you’re going “Karate is evil and teaches students to kick babies in the face”? I like your writing and adventures, but this is Jezebel article level shit, man.
“I don’t want him to hate interacting with women, the inevitable result of doing what RSD teaches.”
Again, Jezebel shit here. “Inevitable result”? Really?
“While Toronto, DC, feminism, smartphones, and so on are making it harder for men to land women”
They’re really not. They just are for you, because your game isn’t tight enough to over-come all that. Again this isn’t a judgement call on you as a person. Your skillset just isn’t built for these environments. You’ve found environments where your skills work, so stick to those, or train more and learn to handle mother hens, feminism, smartphones, etc.
“is being an autistic approach robot the best answer?”
Eventually you don’t have to approach as much. Tyler doesn’t have your probably pretty cool little brother lifting weights coming to his program, he’s got a 30yo virgin wearing Levi’s from the 80s to a high-end nightclub who’s been playing World of Warcraft for 5 years. That guy needs to be an approach robot for a while.
“The irony of the RSD system is that it’s so time intensive that it would actually be easier just to learn the guitar and start a local band to bang groupies.”
It’s only time intensive if you consider approaching, socializing, and interacting with other people to be “work”, which it sounds like you do, which is kind of the whole root of the problem lol You’re like the guy dragging his ass to the gym hating every minute of it, VS the guy who looks forward to hitting the gym and working on his body. It comes across in your Field Reports and complaining about various cities and women and feminism etc.
At some point “The Game” stopped being fun for you and became a job.
“RSD is simply a male response to all the Torontos of the English-speaking world.”
Mystery, Tyler, Cajun from LoveSystems, etc. all trained their game in Toronto while you were picking off easy prey in Euro countries. Don’t slag on them for focusing on an area you neglected.
Once again, I’m not trying to be mean or insult you. You’ve found the style of game you like running, and you’ve found the type of environments where it works…that’s awesome, I’m happy for you, I hope you get all the pussy you want. Seriously. There’s just no reason for you to be doing articles like this.
great post 104.
104, take TD’s cock out of your mouth.
Also see the entire 3 seasons worth of Keys to the VIP, which is filmed in nightclubs in Toronto, for a shit-ton of examples of guys doing just fine in Toronto running the same game that works anywhere else.
Keys to the VIP in general is a great show to watch. You can see tall good-looking rich guys who suck ass with girls, and scrawny guys who kill it, as well as the reverse.
Cajun from LoveSystems smokes it in an episode against his shittier PUA cousin. Cobra Commando episode is great (goofy looking guy running really fucked up game), Meatus Matt VS Todd episode is a great look at a super-asshole alpha VS a good-looking super-beta, Max VS Josh is a good look at a good-looking super-alpha (focus on his actual game, dominance, confidence, etc. and not just “he’s good-looking”), and youtube for “bad game.looks is not all” for a mini-compliation of good-looking guys with no game getting raped in the field.
Why can all these guys succeed in Toronto? Are they just the luckiest men in the universe? Do they just have the tightest game in the universe? Are they all super-rich movie stars?
No, they just don’t get soft gaming in easy environments all the time.
Instead of looking at places like Toronto as horrible worthless “never go there, men!!” environments, why not look at it as a challenge and a chance to really test out and improve and sharpen your game?
106, I’ll be sure to suck your dick instead of Tyler’s as soon as you put up some vids like this:
Opens/pickups with breakdowns from Tyler:
First montage chunk of this clip:
End half this clip:
108, stop acting like a homosexual gay person.
Lovesystems suck even more after seeing their guys interrupt our street sets in their $3k london ‘bootcamp, fucking nonces.
Toronto is no Montreal or Vancouver. Girls in Vancouver are a lot more relaxed and friendlier than Toronto. I think it is a result of being so close to all that wonderful sea air and mountains. I found girls in Toronto to be so stressed and on edge. Also, the men to women ratio does not help either.
If you do not pick up a girl in Vancouver, at least you have a beautiful city to explore.
Yes……I am from Vancouver.I have got to plug the city when i can…..ha ha.
@ 88 American Woman
That’s actually what I advise women in DC who complain about the men there to do as well as Copenhagen (and I’ve been doing this for years before I knew about Roosh). Though I suggest Denver first since it doesn’t require getting a work permit.
One thing, though, a lot of American women now demand a Tucker Max Asshole Alpha style personality as well. You won’t find that in those places except maybe Denver.
If you are serious about settling down and having kids and not riding the alpha cock carousel anymore, Toronto is definitely worth serious consideration.
[...] by Frost on January 4, 2013 On the first read, I agreed with most of what Roosh wrote in this post: Is RSD Hurting Young Men? [...]
I’ve lived in downtown Toronto for about 14 years. Grew up just outside Toronto my previous twenty something years.
Toronto has always had the rep of having cold, stuck up women. back in HS, the older guys who went to UofT would say the women are all stuck up and snobby. That was back in 89/90.
I’ve never had problems picking up ‘generally’. I have great days and bad days. Maybe it was all the years working in nightclubs that i got to figure shit out regarding game.
I’ve never known anything other than Toronto and i find it a cake walk but it’s reputation is well deserved from what i’ve heard over the years.
Learning a martial art like mma, bjj, wrestling etc. for over 20 years always did wonders for my confidence. I’m 6’1″ and been lifting weights since i was 16. Did a bunch of cycles of steroids. That, along with confidence and an aloof manner takes you a long way.
Roosh, this website is difficult to read for those who need to make the print larger, because when you zoom the page the text doesn’t auto-wrap, and so doesn’t fit in the screen without the need to scroll to the right to see it.
It was only a matter of time before you guys started talking smack about each other I suppose. Roosh sir, as you so aptly put it: You are the Big Mac of game. You product is simple and to the point. While insightful it still lurks in a place of need. What RSD teaches is drastically different and requires more than a sociopathic mindset, rehearsed lines and a disdain for society at large. As I have happily downloaded both works, I say you could learn a thing or two from those guys.
Buy hey, its all about fun: GAME ON!
***I love this blog and the forum, but I think you’re misunderstanding a great resource that actually compliments your own thoughts on game.***
@Roosh — This critique of RSD is pretty simplistic. There’s definitely more to it than spam approaching.
I’m not sure how much you’ve watched Tyler’s videos, but he is a huge advocate of reading, working out, eating healthy, meditation, and travel. He talks about these things as much, or more, than he does about game.
When I saw your BIG ASS BOOK CHALLENGE, I thought “wow, Tyler’s shit is just like this”. Check out his ‘The Truth About Success 1 & 2′ videos.
I’ve always thought of his stuff as ‘big picture’, while your stuff is more pragmatic (x methods work best in x country).
Can’t blame the guy for Toronto any more than you yourself can be blamed for DC. Harsh environments spawn ice cold pimps.
@MANOSPUNK — RSD doesn’t teach rehearsed lines, though they may have ten years ago when EVERYONE was. They say many times, “it doesn’t even matter what you say.”
Their current style is very physical and based on creating attraction with a bold opening move. That’s probably why they approach so much. Fearless approach shows value. Don’t confuse RSD with Mystery Method. A lot of people seem to be doing that here.
I think most ‘manosphere’ or ‘game’ bloggers/teachers encourage disdain for society. Look at all the hatred of American women (and men) Roosh stirs up. I’m not saying he’s wrong, but disdain for society is part of taking the red pill, as you guys call it.
108, gotta admit, those videos are quite compelling
and based on frost/thumotics write up, i’m inclined to give RSD more of a chance
that said tyler still sound like zach galafinakis, but that’s neither here no there
If you know anything about manipulation tactics, RSD uses pretty much all of them. There’s no way it’s not deliberate.
RSD makes their advice DELIBERATELY confusing, contradictory and vague, to keep selling you things and create a state of dependency in the audience. Do you really think you need to watch a 20h video OVER AND OVER again to understand what they’re teaching?
Just look at the hysterical reaction that people have when you criticize them.
If you are a narcissist, you must not approach so many, a man must be able to weigh his investment and the likelihood of returns he must get. Its not numbers, it is an instinct. Genetically challenged man may have it hard. Well…..many ugly men have been emperors….Bonaparte…5 feet 2 or so….not handsome……
A Man must be a narcissist. You cant love no one, if You cant love yourself.
Disinterest in women….a display of the same..you display this despise, because you have it in your soul…a disgust for women….this is the display you have to exhibit with splendor,sophistication and pomp, when youre surrounded by women…
Women are not even human.
You dont even have to try to get laid….it will just happen..may take some time though, as the display of disgust takes some finesse..
I’m glad someone finally said something about RSD. Because it is exactly as Virgil Kent said, the better you get the less you approach.
Starting out in pickup I approached a lot, not like the RSD fanatics, but with that came a lot of rejection, and an unhealthy attitude towards the pickup process in general.
After fine tuning things, and investing a lot of time into changing who I am at the core, I found that going out once or twice a month is more than enough to fill my plate with dates. I actually ended up with approach apathy and started to care so little about chasing the shiny thing unless I knew it was a sure thing. The result of this was a huge increase to confidence and understand on social dynamics, and much more effortless lays.
Practice makes perfect, but if your practice always results in pure and utter failure, you’ll learn to hate working towards the final goal. So make that practice count.
I agree with the general critique you made of Roosh’s post, as it was kind of a blanket rejection . Roosh has a tendency to do that at times in his writings. The truth is, in my opinion, Tyler’s videos over on his youtube channel are some of the best out there not only in terms of game but in terms of a good philosophy on how to live life.
He’s in a league of his own in terms of his thinking.
On the other hand, as knowledgable as you are on some of the theories of game, it’s pretty obvious to people with more life experience than you that you lack perspective.
I’m doubting that you’ve spent any considerable amount of time overseas, or have lived overseas,- as Roosh, myself, and many other travelers here have because if you had then you would know exactly why Roosh would question those who put so much energy trying to bang women of such low quality- such as what could be found in America/Canada.
You think he’s in EEurope because it’s easier? Lol, buddy he’s in EE because the quality is better. You’ve never experienced the kind of femininity that people like Roosh and myself have experienced overseas, being surrounded by feminine women 24 hours a day. Because if you did, you wouldn’t respect yourself for giving the kind of energy that is required to game most of these American “females”.
Let me repeat that, it’s our experiences overseas with quality, feminine women which makes the gag reflex hit the fucking roof when we go back to the States.
The effort is not worth it, and you can turn that into whatever you want with your “aww you just don’t want to work hard” and “you can’t cope with this environment” response.
Simply put, who the fuck would even want to put the effort into these nasty things when the knowledge of what you COULD BE GETTING compared to the trash you are attempting to get is raping your mind?
Better to just work two jobs, save up all your money and head to another country.
I’ve lived in Romania as a PC volunteer, lived in Korea, Thailand, Israel, England, and Shanghai. Like Roosh, I notice things about women that you and your knowledge just can’t see or take into account, because you’ve never been radically exposed to much other than what you’ve seen in the North America (and sorry, fucking a foreign girl who’s living in the states aint the same).
I see guys like you out sometimes when I’m in the States and I can’t help but to laugh- all that effort and gaming to outmaneuver other guys for what? To fuck THAT? Lol, riiight.
Now, there are some quality girls there, but a majority of them are trash. And that’s not me being lazy, that’s me (and Roosh) being able to make a comparison and then a judgement based on that comparison.
You, with your limited life/travel experiences are unable to make any comparison with what you’re experiencing and therefore you are unable to comprehend exactly what we are saying when we say that American women are trash, and that it only makes things worse to even engage them in any way.
Like I said, you have no perspective.
Here’s a challenge for you: get out of America for an extended period of time. You may have lived in dfferent cities in the US, but that aint the same. Live in a different country. One which has feminine women as the NORM.
Then come back and give us your take on such things as femininity/ or the lack there of, of travel, etc. Feel free to temporarily digress from talking/writing about game, as Roosh (and Tyler) sometimes do. Stretch the boundaries son.
I was in Toronto for a week. Went out three times, fucked one girl and almost pulled a second one. Also I saw a lot of hotties in my time there, even at Maddies. Also, the girl I fucked was not a “high percentage approach”. I guess I spammed the girl I ended up fucking haha
RSD is solid shit. I started going out this past year and I banged 23 new girls in the 8 months I went out. Approaching a lot seems to be superior to bitching about western society cockblocking you.
What’s up with dudes getting so but hurt and defensive about RSD? Sounds like classic cult culture to me. Some of you dudes are sad.
I find it difficult to believe that feminism or culture could be the reason why Montreal and Vancouver are significantly better hunting grounds. I’ve always maintained that the reason why women switch gear from “The Imagined Romancer” to the “Petty Aggressor” is when there is male-spam involved.
Sometimes in cities like Toronto, you need to “collaborate” your game to understand the paradigm, rather than objectively say its a “cockfest” and move on. This usually requires a lot of approaches. And learning through “experiences” which re-program your subconscious with certain behaviours.
For newbies who need to have these re-programmed behaviors, they need to spam, and this will affect the market and make certain cities cockfests. But this is just a result of them having to learn the game. The women are bitches because the amount of sexual validation these girls get is proportional to the amount of dudes with game or who are learning the game, relative to how much female-competition is out there.
In Montreal, there is probably enough supply of single fertile women who aren’t exhausted with pickup-artistry. The entire community has this to blame for publishing game material and distributing it so easily for consumption. From what I can see, the RSD bootcamps seem to have a low newb to intermediate learning-period, and they’re trying to reduce future-spam by making them stronger players.
But this is what’s happening, in cities like Toronto, too many guys are learning the game because too many guys are frustrated chumps. It’s an economic effect, and personally I don’t think RSD is solely to blame.
As I mentioned is that, what’s worse is that this website actually encourages guys with newb-to-intermediate game to spam certain female ‘havens’ that are dwindling as tourists go there hearing about the so-called “Polish girls”, “Lithuanian girls” and so on. That and the fact that the book title, the media frenzy caused by the website, and the culture that it breeds, causes men to realise easy-solution scenario to their weaknesses in Game.
“Too many motherhens in Toronto, I’m going to Poland”.
What roosh doesn’t realise is that Polish girls, their personalities, their psychologies, will deteriorate over time as the EU become more homogenized, as the fertility rate drops, and as his reads exhaust the market seeking beautiful mythical women who apparently possess wifey trait.
Wifey traits is essentially an economic variable. It’s not doctored through feminism, media culture and so on. The above things do factor, but it makes a tremendous difference when women no longer get approached. The lack of sexual validation with women assures they get insecure, worry about their appearance, and imagine what it is to be with a man. All variables that Roosh has openly commented on before, but has suggested that these things arrive at the hands of feminism.
He’s not dumb. He realises this. But realises what makes money as well, just like RSD. The issue is inevitable. We just need to hope that the supply of single women increases with globalisation, rather than rely on certain cities to find quality women. Otherwise, the future will rely on the smart guys, having mini-relationships with women that are fixiated on validation.
I can guarantee guys who had the privilege of “Game” would be getting laid x 10 more had no major game-publications be made. It’s selfish to say, but had one travelled back in time to eastern-europe prior to the male-spam effect from Turkey/Italy, it would of been a haven.
The RSD cultists lost me at “handling the mother hen”.
What a stupid waste of time.
“Plowing” is equally stupid.
These moves will only allow you to sleep with average looking girls at most. Try “plowing” with an 8 or above who’s not interested, I dare you MFer. The guys around her will eat you alive. You’ll be laughed off or beaten up if you’re too stupid to buzz off.
Pictures have proven time and time again that the self-proclaimed masterPUAs only have 7s at most as girlfriends.
Go to the PUA hate site and you’ll find all sorts of horrible pictures of the trolls these gurus are dating and even marrying. It’s a joke, a scam, a cult. Roosh has legit info, so have some others. But RSD is a labytinthine mess of useless junk that they rehash every year to sell more DVDs.
Niche game styles exploration and trends analysis like Roosh does at least is useful.
Jay: I never made a judgement call on the quality/femininity/worthiness-of-effort of North American girls. To each his own.
Roosh is whining that Toronto girls are difficult and I’m just saying that its not that the girls are difficult it’s that his game is weak since tons of other guys have no problem and its weak because he “games” easy EE chicks in easy environments. It’s simply a logical observation, your opinion of my “life experience” is irrelevant. If someone only played little league baseball and then complained that its impossible to beat the Yankees I’d say well it’s not impossible, you just don’t train properly for it. Whether beating the Yankees is a worthy goal or not to you doesn’t change that statement.
Now if your ego takes offense to my pointing out that that EE girls are way easier in comparison, that’s your own shit.
A guy who can hold his own in a city like Toronto isn’t going to have any problem getting the cream of the crop in Poland lol it’s like training with weights on, then taking them off.
Understand that some of us appreciate the game as an art-form and we LIKE all the shit that you guys cry about. Bring on a mother hen, that’s great, a challenge, let’s have some fun with her. Oh, a bitchy girl? That’s cute, watch me tear down her defenses and get to the sweet girl inside her. Oh a bunch of AMOGs? That’s cool, let’s duel over this chick then ditch her and wingman together and become friends.
We look at socializing and working social dynamics as fun and entertaining and not a struggle and chore and work like you do. So when you’re “putting in all that work” for shitty NA girls, we’re really not putting in any work, we’re just having a good time and pulling them. That’s the mentality that RSD fosters.
Put it this way: if I dropped you in Toronto on a Saturday by yourself, would you look FORWARD to going out and making new friends and gathering stories and adventures and goofing around with girls? Or would you dread it and have to force yourself to do it because you know you’ll have to do it if you want pussy but really you wish you didn’t have to? I’m pretty sure I already know your answer and that’s the crux of our differing views. :P
[...] Game vs PUA: know the difference! [...]
I’d say Poland has been made considerably more difficult because of cheap connecting flights to/fro spain and also spanish erasmus students/africans and the Euro 2012 world cup and not to mention publication of books which openly tout polish girls as being the most wifey of continental europe. Not only that, but a lot of the girls are moving abroad, specifically to London.
They’re getting hit on at all 3 angles. Without the EU, and without the cheap connecting flights, it would have been considerably easier. The girls would be friendlier, and possess wifey psychologies.
I wouldn’t call Polish girls easy, like in the sense, you’d call an American girl easy: drunk slothy girl who haphazardly falls on your lap.
Polish girls are more responsive (Well at least I hope they are). You’ll get less rejections, you’ll have to do less ploughing. I’d say the entire experience is less “sociopathic”, because you understand her frailties and this isn’t just a game where you’re de-constructing things and applying theory.
But I’d say 60-80% of game taught for traditional american women is applicable for Polish girls. I think once you realise that their attention span is high and that you can show off more interesting traits that an American girl isn’t capable of digesting (because of her low attention-span), then you can do very well when applying the principles.
You probably can’t/shouldn’t do shit like “Drama-sequencing”, creating jealousy b/w 3 girls, or give off a player vibe, or too many push-pull triggers. This is a grey area and subjective.
Indirect to Direct playful openers seem to work better with Polish girls, and being intellectual gives off a masculine vibe — unlike America, where the stupid jock mentality flourishes and bimbo behaviour is cherished.
Energy levels need to be lower; again higher-attention-span game. Logistics — stuff Roosh has written about are significantly important. It would definitely help to speak the language, although it’s difficult.
On the other hand, some of RSD’s stuff is definitely legitimate. I’ve not paid a cent for any of there stuff, but the way they talk about key topics such as: validation, warm-up sets, etc are more higher level than Roosh. They’ve been around for 10 years, if you think their shit is fluff, you clearly don’t understand game and have a modicum of self-awareness when it comes to female psycho-analysis.
I think the free content definitely favours intermediate to advanced guys rather than newbs who simply cannot relate to guys going up to girls and making out with them on the spot. RSD does this seamless pick-ups as super-hero marketing campaigns. But this is expected.
The problem with Roosh is that he offers easy solutions in “World Heritage sites” for women. There are a lot of guys on the forum who are ex-divorcees, middle aged dudes, with shitty game, who ask for travel tips in Ukraine so they can live out their fantasies bcause they’re completely disenchanted by American/Anglo women. I feel this breeds a much more dangerous culture because it dilutes a market that was once filled with beautiful, intelligent, feminine women. As people privy to knowledge about these places, i think its obnoxious and somewhat irresponsible to write books such as “Bang Poland” and create a media frenzy. It’s pathetic.
Yea I hear ya but maybe I didn’t explain myself properly.
From Roosh’s arguement, I can see how you can assert that the only reason he (or people like him, myself) go to EE or Asia is because it’s “easier” to fuck girls. He set himself up for that critique, and it’s up to him to defend that.
But speaking for myself, the reason many of us pick up overseas has nothing to do with ease or lack there of, it’s about the quality. I’m glad it’s easier, but that’s not the motivating factor as you said it was ( then again, it may be for Roosh)
Here’s why life experience has everything to do with it, and I’ll use your Yankees analogy.
After living overseas and watching various foreign professional baseball teams, you get to the point where you realize that “the Yankees” of your beloved home country amount to nothing more than a steaming pile of dog shit.
Yes, it would still take great skill in beating them, for sure. But here’s the point: why would you even choose to focus on beating them when they have such lower value compared to foreign baseball teams?
After being around these sweet little feminine thangs for so long now, there is no way in hell I can tolerate or even contemplate being around those nasty things. Not about ease, all about quality.
I understand your point, you’re improving you skill set and that’s cool and all. All I’m saying is that those specimens are toxic, poisoned creatures who have intentionally retarded themselves. You can have them.
And, I’m sorry to say but American/Canadian women AINT that hard to bang. Google the phrase “American chicks are the easy”.
Like I said, how about challenging yourself by putting yourself in a foreign environment where you don’t know the language, culture, customs, what’s acceptable or not, etc?
You set it up like it takes all this “great skill” and what not but try going out solo in Israel gaming on ball busting women who have spent their whole lives surrounded by extremely intelligent and skillful Israeli/Middle Eastern men who just want to fuck them. I remember doing quite well there, even banged a famous pop singer. And you think I would be intimidated by some place like Toronto? Lol. I don’t doubt my skill set brother, I am just a bit more selective about where I choose to use them. I think THAT is the crux of our differing views.
Have to give props to you though, you once posted some links to Tyler’s youtube channel a while back which I found very enlightening. Cheers for that. I teach in a university in Asia and have the summer and winters off, paid. I’ll be heading to Amsterdam in July for a smoke fest then back down into Israel for a month for beach and banging. If you get the notion, hit me up.
It is easier for a ex-divorcee / mature / back-in-the-game beginner to go to EE or Asia. There’s no argument there. I’ve seen absolute duds get decent responses from decent girls in Poland.
It’s easier to get a response and to get laid for a beta male. It is harder for a guy that’s well versed in American style-pick up, who doesn’t rely on his looks, to do “really” well in Poland i.e. clean up twice a week. It requires a bit more investment.
The danger with Roosh’s books is that it encourages beta who haven’t checked of all the crosses in traditional game with the deep-end of the angloworld, by going straight for eastern europe as a quick-fix easy solution, flooding the market completely, and making it no longer a worthwhile prospect.
The reason why the “She is bitch” article is written because it features a dialogue between Roosh and a guy who had much more pleasurable accounts of the city in the past. As the italians flooded Latvia back in its hay day, the entire economy, and latvian female population, viewed foreign men as “Aggressors” rather than “Romancers”. They were previously a country that was in heavy demand for men, but through word of mouth, men from the continent flocked there for easy lays, creating a city whose economy relies on the sex tourism factor.
Bitches are produced in flooded cockfests. Feminism plays police and advocate in such a situation, and falsely empowers women. But at the root of all the evil is the lack of demand for men, the over supply for men, and the undersupply of single dateable women.
While there is some truth to RSD teachings “teaching guys not to like getting laid” because it can be a massive willpower burn and big generator of fear, I think it’s more of a misinterpretation of RSD teachigns and an RSD subculture that wires that into guys. The instructors all seem pretty level headed about this stuff, Alex actually teaches against it entirely. It’s a certain style of game that works for certain instructors, hardly “spam” game either the purpose of rapid approaching is to spike your mood for guys with AA or just because you enjoy running around like a beast. It’s not meant to torture students.
I have been living and beasting in this city 7 nights a week for more than a year now, getting kicked out of clubs and opening any kind of sets. Honestly, I don’t understand this hole article….Is Rsd hurting young man? To me and most of the PUA’s I go out with (and I know the hole community here), hitting it up 7 nights a week pulling chicks (and not just through massive mindless approaching) and getting kicked out once in a while is just normal.
And living on the street for a bit is not that crazy as well, big deal…. Toronto has just a deep love and passion for the game and I think this article is creating unnecessary drama.
Rsd is the shit.
[...] Over at Roosh’s blog, he’d written an article where he shed some light on the Toronto pick-up scene [apart from the RSD politics]. Here’s an excerpt: Is RSD hurting young men? [...]
[...] I was reading one of Roosh’s blogs and I think he said it the best when he visited Toronto’s nig… In Montreal, me and my friends would drive around and strike up conversations with random sexy French girls that we’d pass by. Most of them were very friendly. In Toronto when we’d do the same thing, we’d usually get ignored or evil cut eye or answers like “Drop dead assholes.” We weren’t even being mean or vulgar to them, we were just a bunch of guys out trying to meet women. [...]
Montreal is the city to live in if you want to have a tolerable love life in Canada, but it’s not that great compared to overseas destinations and Toronto offers better weather (still very, very cold) and better career ops. (you can use all that $ you make to fly to world hotspots thru TO’s large international airport, Pearson Int’l).
The best thing to do in TO is to hunt down foreign chicks who are there temporarily or just moved to town, there are lots of ESL students, tourists, work visa tourists, University xchange students, third world refugees (I always cornered any Cuban or Romanian girls on refugee status). These girls haven’t been corrupted by the Canadian Girl Borg yet and are doable. A lot of Canadian girls never get laid because Canada has become the gayest country in the Western World, I kid you not, urban Canadian men are easily 20% gay gay and another 15% bi-sex. We’ve gone from being a band of rugged trappers, hunters, soldiers and farmers (who did anything the British told us to do, in this land of frozen moose pasture that the Americans didn’t want much anyways) to a bunch of passive wimps who like it up the b-side, in two generations!