“Night Game Is Dead” & “Roosh Syndrome”

I noticed that Ferdinand has been stepping up his blog game recently over at In Mala Fide. I wanted to comment on a couple of his posts that caught my attention.

The first is Night Game Is Dead

It’s time to pronounce the death of night game. After having its limbs hacked off and its genitals yanked out by the root for dog food, night game has finally shuffled off this mortal coil to that big swank discotheque in the sky. If you just discovered [the seduction community] and are reading up on the best shotgun negs to use on a HB7.5, you’re already behind the curve. The minute you step out of the cab, you’re going to get slaughtered.

He goes on to give an accurate assement of how it’s like to game in a modern club while taking a shot at Steve Jobs for being the “biggest cockblocker is human history.”

In the good old days when cell phones were overpriced walkie-talkies, people who went out on the weekend were forced to engage with the world around them. As late as two years ago, you could introduce yourself to a girl and be assured that you could carry on a civil conversation for at least fifteen minutes. You might not get the lay or even a number, but you could put in a decent effort.

No more. The minute the girlies get to the bar, they whip out their iPhones and start texting all their friends to tell them where they are. Then the whole gang shows up and they all turn a deaf ear to everyone else save for the bartender.

I agree with him in that I wouldn’t dare step foot into an American club with the intention to pick up. I don’t mind taking a date for some drinking and dancing, but the hurdles I have to face when rolling without girls are sometimes insurmountable. A club in a poor country is only marginally better.

My biggest issue with clubs is the high male to female ratio. Here’s a picture that a forum member posted from a night out in Ultra Bar in Washington D.C.

That’s an 8:1 ratio on a non-gay night in a big city club. This example is extreme, but even the 3:1 ratios that are just about universal in DC will kill your odds. The reason is that when a girl knows she is scarce, she puts on more cuntish attitude that makes getting laid much harder, regardless of whether the other guys in the club are approaching or not, and regardless of how good your game is. When I’m in a place where the ratio is equal, or where there are actually more girls than guys, I can feel the difference. Girls are looking more, smiling more, approaching more, spending less face time with their phone, and being much more receptive to even my laziest game. When a place is packed with dudes, the best “positive” outcome is to work your ass off to get with a 6. I’m not saying you can’t get laid, but I am saying that it won’t be worth it.

Another reason why club game has declined is because of the proliferation of bottle service. Here’s an email I received which articulates the problem:

The whole bottle service concept did major damage to my club game. I’m lucky enough to be a pretty good dancer, so nightclubs have always been good to me. But when the owners started dedicating much of what used to be a large central dance area, ideal for trolling and mingling, to seating areas for bottles I mourned the loss of a lot of great rooms. I live in South Beach (since 1997) and watched most of the best clubs around 2002 start to turn into meathead venues, largely for tourists and our version of bridge and tunnel types from metro Miami coming in who wanted to be posers with their “bros” and pretend to be big deals. What a shame.

The post Ferdinand wrote should really be titled “Club Game Is Dead,” because night game is still alive and well in bars, which are still the main way that Western girls have sexual relations. While of course some problems exist with bars, they are the easiest way to get laid in modern society. Once your game becomes competent, what matters most is venue selection. Every large city has bars where getting laid is no harder than it was 10 or 20 years ago, and if anything it’s easier, even when you account for the proliferation of mainstream game and smartphones.

Venue selection is an art, but let me share the secret: neighborhood bars. If the bar has a crowd of regulars during the week, then it’s probably a good venue to pick up. If the bar only packs them in on the weekends, like clubs do, then you’re going to run into a lot of amateurs who are less concerned with getting laid than being a dumb ass. You have to pick bars where the main goal of its patrons is to drink in a familiar place instead of showing off, stroking their egos, and getting together with a large group of friends. Once you identify these bars, the difference between them and clubs can make it feel like you’re in a different city. Personally, I’d have extreme difficulty getting laid in a club like pictured above. It’s an unnecessary challenge that would just make me hate myself.

Of course there are downsides to the neighborhood bar: the quality is lower on average, the girls are less likely to put more care into their appearance, and it takes a bigger time commitment to do solid approaches since there are fewer targets, but if you’re in the business of getting laid at night then this is the way to go.

If you’re having trouble getting laid at night, there are two things to look into. The first is your game. If you know other guys are getting laid but you’re not, then there are likely some things you need to work on. But if no one is getting laid, even guys you know who can get laid, then it’s venue selection. Commit to finding neighborhood spots out of your comfort zone. If the neighborhood spots don’t give you the type of girl you want, you’ll have to move to day game, and if day game doesn’t give you good fruit, then you may have what Ferdinand calls Roosh Syndrome

There’s a new disease spreading among American men of intelligence, class and accomplishment, characterized by total disgust of the victim’s surroundings. The victim becomes increasingly repulsed by the pointlessness of his job, the venality of his co-workers, the stupidity of the people he meets on the street, and the boorishness and dullness of the women he is expected to date. He becomes sullen, forlorn, and anti-social, preferring to self-medicate with alcohol and commiserate with his trusted friends. Self-help books and prescription drugs either don’t help or defeat the purpose of helping by destroying the victim’s mind. Vacations to other places, particularly foreign countries, can temporarily ameliorate the symptoms, but every inch of progress made while away is undone once the victim returns home. The only way to cure the disease is for the victim to leave for good.

I’m calling this disease Roosh Syndrome. And I’ve got it.

Roosh Syndrome happens after you discover quality. Once you get a taste of an easier standard of living, a better way of life, better women, or better anything, it becomes impossible to erase those experiences and continue living in what is now a low quality environment. I’ve touched on this a million times in the past—especially in this video—where you become “permanently damaged” after rich experiences. Nothing short but prudent and methodical exploration of the new environment can alleviate the disease.

Ferdinand writes:

I couldn’t justify this self-imposed life of pointlessness any more. I couldn’t sate myself with promises of doing something about my life later, when I had more money or fewer worries. I had to take action.

I polished up my resume, punched up letters of introduction, and sent them both out to a million different places. I went to job interviews, shook hands, and BS’ed like I was back in high school trying to get into Fucknozzle U. And last month, I struck gold.

Living in America is like being a zombie, an endless torture for anyone who isn’t a mindless member of the Crowd. Today, I begin my journey back towards the world of the living. Today, I begin my new life.

The trend I’m seeing is not so much more men living abroad (men have always done that), but men with lessening attachment to the American way of life. More men are willing to admit that there is something wrong with the system that their parents rarely questioned (the mainstream acceptance of books like The 4 Hour Work Week is testament that today’s generation is not crazy about having a boring job with its nine-to-five stability). There is a loss of pride that is tempting men to open other doors, not only due to dissatisfaction with the women, but with the country’s future and place in the world.

Why work so hard for something that seems on an irrevocable decline? How can you not get curious when reading about places like Brazil, China, or Singapore, the rising stars of the world? Why can’t my country be rising? Personally, I wouldn’t mind being in Brazil as it achieves its potential—I’d adopt the country so it can give me the feeling of “national” pride that I don’t have for my own. Call be a bandwagoner, but like anyone else I want to be on the winning team, and unfortunately America has been at the bottom of my fantasy rankings for quite some time. I hope that changes, but I don’t see anything looming in the future that gives me hope. So I pack my bags.

Read Next: 7 Things You Can Do To Improve Your Game Right Now

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  • http://weddingspeechestoasts.com Best Man

    When a country is booming with a young population it is a far better environment for lifestyle purposes.

    The problem is that America has lost it’s mojo and is mired in negativity.

    You can imagine what moving to New York was like in 1911. That is what we need to do now – find the next New York.

  • http://freedomtwentyfive.wordpress.com/ Frost

    Yup.

    I think that’s the core of the man-o-sphere. It’s not just about game, but the general awakening of western men to the fact that we are all fucked if we keep following society’s script for us.

  • French Connection

    Interesting, over here (Amsterdam) clubs remain a good place to meet girls, provided you pick the better clubs. Local bars seem trickier, as any level of quality heads to the center.

    A friend of mine who used to live here and went to live in America (7 years now) recently visited here again, and he too suffers from Roosh Syndrome.
    And this guy is a devout Christian who’s never heard of the pickup community, neither does he drink/fuck/party.

    Americans, your once great country is going to shit.

  • quepaso

    Question, can one immigrate to Brazil? what are job prospects like in Sao paolo (granted that one intensifies his portuguese)? are foreigners who speak excellent english sought after?

    I really want to go to brazil….

  • dufu

    “…system that their parents rarely questioned.”

    Do you think the number of baby boomers who actually participated in late 60s “rebellion” is overstated? Or that it just doesn’t count?

    I think the former is true. But in any event those who did rebel eventually gave up and got with the program, or just turned into hippie burnouts with no real influence on society.

  • http://gameforomegas.wordpress.com Omega Man

    The guy in the foreground in the lavender shirt is mackin’. The Asian girl has her hand on him, the black girl is giving him a big smile and even the white girl seems positively inclined. The rest of the guys, they are SOL.

    I’ve got my fingers crossed on some overseas jobs. Should I leave I don’t see myself coming back.

  • Sam

    Everyone loves to say America is going to shit, that our age of dominance is over. In terms of science and engineering; this is completely wrong. We still have the highest concentration of smart people in the entire world working harder than anywhere else to solve problems and push the boundaries of current technology.

    China, India, Brazil certainly have booming economies right now. But I dont know if their governments will be able to provide enough safety, comfort and infrastructure (in our lifetime) that the world’s most intelligent people will be willing to settle down their to work on the problems of our time.

    I feel like you guys are all looking at one side of America: the fat people in Walmart, obnoxious DC women, stupid college kids.

    I’ve always chosen to avoid these people spend my time around people who I respect. If you can’t find people with whom you enjoy spending time in America, you are not looking hard enough.

    I guarantee you that most people who say they have “Roosh Syndrome” are just frustrated because they are not getting laid where they are.

    Roosh- I know you have your reasons for leaving America, and I respect you for owning your life, for admitting to yourself that you are happier outside this country.

    But Jesus it’s annoying to hear all these other people so quickly jump on the bandwagon. And to all you Europeans who express such disgust in your opinions of America: no problem, don’t visit. There’s nothing more annoying than a loud, metro European in a bar. And there’s no pride in bashing the country that raised you.

    There’s more than one city in America. You might be annoyed by the mainstream, but man, where is the mainstream EVER not annoying.

    I have spent some time in South America, and what many of you see as its strengths i found either sad or boring.

    Beautiful, submissive local women–> impoverished, broken down, desperate women

    Slow, Easygoing lifestyle–> lazy people with no interest in self-improvement.

    I know Americans are not the most relaxed people in the world and that American women can be obnoxious and masculine. This is not true about all the women here (again, DC sucks and is not a good representation of American cities). It’s an exterior of MASSIVE insecurity that our generation chooses to mask with snark. if you are confident enough you’ll get past it. Before we blame the women, look at the men. Most men of our generation are pretty feminine, so it is not surprising that most men complain about these types of attitudes from women.

    Finally, if you want to leave America because you hate it: that’s fine. Nothing is worth being miserable for. But a lot of you guys posting in the comments are just looking to find a society where you can take a lot and contribute nothing.

  • http://www.theunambitiousmale.com/ Workshy Joe

    Holy Shizzle. Sure that’s not Gay Night?

    No, come to think of it, there would actually be more straight women in a gay club dancing with their non-threatening homo friends.

    Demographics are a bitch.

    When people talk about the “numbers game”, they usually mean the volume of approaches, but I’m starting to think that the actual sex ratio is the key number in a club.

    Its worse than “Plenty of Fish”. How is that even possible?

  • west was jew’d

    rising countries have many children and marry young (arab world) they have serious censorship of porn (china) declining countries have advanced porn industries, low birth rates, and young men who chase tail with clever negs and DHV’s.

  • http://fretdancer.wordpress.com Bugs Bunny

    What a fucked up club man, I still don’t know why the guys haven’t GTFO of there.

    Anyways great post, it’s time to pack those bags.

  • Begby

    Awesome post, solid gold advice about neighborhood bars.
    yeah the guy in the Lavender shirt is mackin’ – interesting thing about that, he’s wearing lavender and almost every other cock in the place is wearing navy, charcoal, or black. Looks like peacocking is a great method in a town full of lawyers and lobbyists. If you wanted to peacock in SF you’d have to do it like Mystery.

  • Schwanson

    Yah-there’s also suffering from vicarious Roosh Syndrome which happens when long time readers begin to see your perspective reflect in their own experiences. Then they go to their 13th consecutive sausage party of 2011 and stare into their drinks as an aging 4 gives them attitude.

    My buddy called the end of club game here in the Bay Area last week as I finished my 10 approaches with no effort. A Bloodbath that I came to terms with only later while masturbating myself to sleep.

    I’m having trouble closing chicks during the day. Need some advance drafts of your day game book. Posts covering the subject will also do. All bangs will be dedicated to you and your glorious beard.

  • Schwanson

    Good comment Sam. A fresh and pragmatic perspective.

  • PM

    “Do you think the number of baby boomers who actually participated in late 60s “rebellion” is overstated? Or that it just doesn’t count?

    I think the former is true. But in any event those who did rebel eventually gave up and got with the program, or just turned into hippie burnouts with no real influence on society.”

    That can go both ways…some are burnouts/dead. Others a billionaires. Steve Jobs and Felix Dennis were pretty damn hippie.

  • Thor

    #7 Sam, I couldn’t agree more. There are a lot of great places in America. I would hate to be stuck in DC though. I made my way from the East coast to the Southwest along time ago and I don’t even like to go back for a visit.

    I’m probably a lot different from most readers though. I’m early 40′s, like women in the early to mid 30′s age and I’d rather bang a 7 that knows how to work her shit and keep up sexually than a 9 that doesn’t.

    Also, the ‘Roosh Syndrome’ and ‘the Lost Generation’ of Fitzgerald and Hemingway seem to have several similarities…excluding the 16 million plus deaths of course

  • http://www.moralinefree.blogspot.com Jesse

    After a society has developed to the point where the threshold for food and shelter has been reached, and both are generally available to anyone willing to work for them, what comes next?

    In the case of America the answer is more food in new varieties and cheaper; bigger homes and second homes; and all sorts of gadgets and entertainments to spend the excess money on.

    The question which should have been asked when there was enough food and shelter to survive was that of what to do now? How and in what way do I live now?

    Collecting more food, shelter, security and gadgets is not the answer for some men.

  • DrG

    Personally, I wouldn’t mind being in Brazil as it achieves its potential—I’d adopt the country so it can give me the feeling of “national” pride that I don’t have for my own. Call be a bandwagoner, but like anyone else I want to be on the winning team, and unfortunately America has been at the bottom of my fantasy rankings for quite some time. I hope that changes, but I don’t see anything looming in the future that gives me hope. So I pack my bags.”

    Roosh how about adopting Iceland as your native country? Perhaps you can comment on night game there…

  • Anonymous

    Sam is right on. Losers that can’t get laid here are looking for a place where they they contribute a little and get a lot in return.

  • Matt

    “…I don’t see anything looming in the future that gives me hope. So I pack my bags.”

    Quite possibly the greatest line yet posted on this blog. Simply perfect.

    I have to laugh at the losers sticking with America. It’s like some jackass standing on the bow of the Titanic, trying to rally the other passengers, screaming, “If we have enough buckets, I thinkk we can bail her out!”

    No thanks, I’m hopping on a lifeboat and getting the fuck out.

  • Outta here

    Hey, I have a great job and girlfriend in America. Would not want it any other way. I guess this blog is not for me anymore. I am getting sick of the increased negativity here. It was good for a while and I did learn a lot. Bailing now.

  • InterestedParty

    Start quote:
    ” When I’m in a place where the ratio is equal, or where there are actually more girls than guys, I can feel the difference. Girls are looking more, smiling more, approaching more, spending less face time with their phone, and being much more receptive to even my laziest game. When a place is packed with dudes, the best “positive” outcome is to work your ass off to get with a 6. I’m not saying you can’t get laid, but I am saying that it won’t be worth it.”
    :end quote

    So, so, so, so true. One of the most truthful and best things you’ve ever written. I’ve experienced this SO many times.

    When the ratio is in your favor, you almost don’t have to do anything. This is the ONE thing that will help you above anything else. A great ratio trumps great game.

    I’m like you when it comes to bad ratio nights. It’s just worth the effort to get an uninspiring 6. I’d rather just hang back and drink OR leave.

    You really hit the nail here dude.

  • Anonymous

    Roosh-Mr. Rebel. Are we supposed to be taken in and astounded by your boldness in rebelling against the system? I’m not. I know Argentinean women wouldn’t give you the time of day so you hate them. I know you have had some bad experiences with American women so you hate them too. I know you really hate feminism.

    Should you really be so proud of yourself for thinking out of the mainstream when what you dedicate yourself to is negative and not an uplifting pursuit. YOU DEDICATE YOURSELF TO TEACHING MEN TO THINK LESS OF WOMEN. NEGATIVITY. ARROGANCE.

    Think about Roosh’s sisters or cousins, by the time they are 20 and Americanized masculine women(according to him) he’ll have a generation of American men to arrogantly look down on them thanks to Roosh’s philosophies.

    Roosh, you are way too one sided. THIS IS HIS MARKETING PHILOSOPHY. ANTI AMERICA, ANTI WOMEN.

    You guys should visit a website at http://www.rsdnation.com where you don’t just take in hate and negativity, go to real social dynamics, they teach postiive philosophies and bettering yourself. They aren’t arrogant, souless and calloused like what you learn here. Is that who you want to become?

    For the foreigners, America isn’t perfect. But it’s got a ton of cool, creative people who are tolerant of other’s beliefs(more foreigners here than any other nation in world, more immigrants accepted than anywhere else). Plus the people here are really hard working. Roosh tries to say everyone works 9-5, that is not at all true. There are tons of entrepreneurs here. Our government system is capitalist and encourages innovation. Did you know America has one of the highest levels of innovation in the world? People here think out of the box and are technologically advanced. There are tons of pretty girls here as well. If you go down south the culture is very hospitable and girls are quite warm. If you go out west to California the culture is a lot more laid back and beach like(think Brazil). I welcome any of you to come visit the great USA.

    Roosh is a contrarian. His heart has already hardened and he likes to piss people off just for the reacation. I know what he’s doing. But I want to call him out on it and give another perspective.

  • hydrogonian

    Sam is missing a LOT of insight, sociology, history, and what seems to be experience in his perspective. In short, he sounds like a guy with little real experience mixing it up in the world. Just wait. And I’m not talking about getting laid. At least not just about getting laid.

    Some specific fallacies:

    “We still have the highest concentration of smart people in the entire world working harder than anywhere else to solve problems and push the boundaries of current technology.”

    Not only wrong, but wrong by such a long shot so as to warrant your own self inquiry into anything that you think you know about this country.

    North Asians have an IQ which is, on average, 5-10 points higher than those in the USA. That’s a proven fact, and a huge difference. There average IQ is our above average IQ. The difference between a 100 IQ and a 110 IQ is huuuge in practical matters. Its roughly the difference between the average state school sorority girl with a bachelor degree and an average science based Masters graduate. Now multiply that 110 average by a billion. Now work the numbers inclusive of what that means for the upper deviation, and tell me which country has the highest amount of smart individuals. The only thing holding China back was their economics. That obstacle is gone now.

    Anyone who has participated in the educational system of any north asian country also knows that there is no possibility that the USA will dominate the world intellectually in the medium term future. Wait until the economics catch up.

    “I guarantee you that most people who say they have “Roosh Syndrome” are just frustrated because they are not getting laid where they are.”

    Maybe some are. i guarantee its not even close to everyone. If getting laid is what defines your happiness, then you really are a bit to young to be posting such an long opinion.

    “But Jesus it’s annoying to hear all these other people so quickly jump on the bandwagon. And to all you Europeans who express such disgust in your opinions of America: no problem, don’t visit. There’s nothing more annoying than a loud, metro European in a bar. And there’s no pride in bashing the country that raised you.”

    I agree that its not good to slam the country just to be on a bandwagon. And it is a family, at least in some lingering respect. That is, its okay for your family to slam itself, but not okay for outsiders to do it. Its good to be a little defensive.

    “I’ve always chosen to avoid these people spend my time around people who I respect. If you can’t find people with whom you enjoy spending time in America, you are not looking hard enough.”

    ha..its not about respect. Its about trust. In this society, you cant trust anyone other than your mother. And I don’t care who you say you can trust, if they haven’t been put to the test, then you can’t trust them. Trust me on that. There is a deep socioeconomic discussion that we can have on the reasons for this. You’ll find entirely different types of relationships in other specific parts of the world.

    “Slow, Easygoing lifestyle–> lazy people with no interest in self-improvement.”

    Self improvement, for the sake of self improvement, is the biggest waste of time in the world. Your going to die, and nothing matters. All remnants of you, including any impact on he world from your self improvement, will be erased forever. But if its for your pleasure or personal gain, then I’m all for it. Therefore, I see being “lazy” and laid back as a maximization of enjoyment. In other words, living in the moment. I could make a string argument that its the more enlightened way of life.

    “Beautiful, submissive local women–> impoverished, broken down, desperate women”

    Dude, if you want the anthesis of beautiful and submissive, then I can’t help you. No one can. Chase that dominant woman. PM me in the forum and I’ll give you some great advice on where to find some. They will be beautiful too. Then I’ll await your message a year or two later, and we can discuss it.

    “American women can be obnoxious and masculine. This is not true about all the women here (again, DC sucks and is not a good representation of American cities). It’s an exterior of MASSIVE insecurity that our generation chooses to mask with snark. if you are confident enough you’ll get past it.”

    But average american women is truly pathetic, especially when the deep psychology is filtered in with looks. A quality woman, who covers all of the bases, is too rare. Guys on here have every right to gripe about that. I can see how “insecurity” can be used as an excuse by someone who is privileged or somehow sheltered from the trials and tribulations of the average male, but its not correct. America is one of the most overly confident countries in the world. As in confident beyond all rational reason (see your opinion about “smart people”).I think that your saying that the snark and insecurity is the cause. Its not, where it exist at all, its the effect of the diminishing respect for and position of the male in society. A lot of hardships come out of that.

    “Before we blame the women, look at the men. Most men of our generation are pretty feminine, so it is not surprising that most men complain about these types of attitudes from women.”

    This is the part that I was referring to when I stated that you are missing some huge historical context. I can’t go into it, as arguing the point with someone who isn’t inspired to research for themselves is pointless. And its a long conversation.

    “Finally, if you want to leave America because you hate it: that’s fine. Nothing is worth being miserable for. But a lot of you guys posting in the comments are just looking to find a society where you can take a lot and contribute nothing.”

    A society that cares nothing, and even has contempt for, the working man? We’re supposed to dutifully “contribute” to a society which holds selfishness as one of its highest ideals? You can’t have it both ways. Either society values the family, its neighbors as an extension of that family, or everyone is a mercenary. Action talks, bullshit walks.

    There is no value in patriotic self delusion. Its better to acknowledge the faults of the country, and even be overly critical so as to facilitate change, then to be self-deluded or willfully ignorant.

  • tomtud

    It is true,, the majority of clubs are sausage fests….

  • http://urbanrealist.blogspot.com John Smith

    Hate the US so much? Go live in China or Russia, or Sudan, and see how much you can criticize the government and get away with it. Go to Asia and see how long you last without getting profiled, Roosh.

    Anyway, the death of night game is merely a symptom of the world becoming more virtual

  • Roosh

    Sam=destroyed.

    If you think about it, the guy in lavender commands over 50% of the females in the club. I’ve never done that before.

    Side note: keep in mind that since Jezebel linked to me, I’m getting female trolls pretending to be men (e.g. comment #18, 20 and probably 22). It may take a month or two until they go away.

  • Anonymous

    In response to Hydrogonian:

    I think you are really brainwashed by Roosh. America does have faults. But did you once mention a positive about the country? I don’t think I noticed anything positive in your tone or any admission that Sam’s points were right in some regards. Being unable to look at both sides isn’t trying to get the truth of a situation, it’s being biased. I admit America has things to work on-racism, individualism, macho women-lol according to roosh. But it has a lot to offer as well: High standard of living, high level of innovation, high level of personal freedom, high level of diversity in population, etc.

    Let’s get into the meat of your points which I want to comment on.

    1. “North Asians have an IQ which is, on average, 5-10 points higher than those in the USA. That’s a proven fact, and a huge difference.”

    Response: I like how you choose one specific area of the entire globe to focus on. Does America also have a higher education than Africa, or what about South America, or wait…what about South Asia, lol. Speaking of lacking geography and education, isn’t North Asia techinically Russia? China is in Southern Asia, at least most of it. So is India. That is 2/6 of the world roughly. So what part of North Asia are you talking about? Also, Roosh spent most of foreign gaming life in South America. I can guarantee you the educational system in the US is better than in South America. How do I know? Well from experience, I taught high school in Colombia, South America as an English teacher. Their school days were 4 hours, the classroom board was old and had holes in it, the students had to daily pay for copies of worksheets to learn, there wasn’t enough money to go around for textbooks. I guess the hard working American lifestyle isn’t worth it in this case? You are right it’s better to live relaxed and deal with the problems of poverty. I guess you can enjoy life in your shanty hut, at least you don’t have to work.

    2. “I’ve always chosen to avoid these people spend my time around people who I respect. If you can’t find people with whom you enjoy spending time in America, you are not looking hard enough.”

    ha..its not about respect. Its about trust. In this society, you cant trust anyone other than your mother.

    Response: Ok, so why is it so hard to trust people in the USA according to you? I really don’t believe people around the world are different. Americans aren’t always trustworthy, that is true, but neither is the rest of the world. I would like to know this paradise you’ve discovered Hydrogonian. I haven’t found anywhere where I can trust people. And I have traveled and lived abroad. It’s all about discerning who you are dealing with and using your judgement. In the US I could hang out with the jaded pua crowd, I would never trust them with a female family member in my life. Or I could hang with a group of do gooders from a church, maybe their values would be different. People are always looking to take advantage of others and intentions are never pure anywhere you go, face it. Obviously you don’t have much life experience to think that whole cultures living elsewhere are pure and wholesome. Let me tell you about some of my experiences and knowledge of other places.
    Lived in Colombia-Many looked at me as a rich gringo and often tried to take advantage of me. If you lose a camera there and it’s returned it’s considered a miracle.
    Africa-Dealing with fraud customer right now in my international business job. We all automatically double check any order from Africa for fraud.
    England-Prince Charles cheated on Diana. I can’t trust those in England.
    Jamaica-I went on a mission trip and a local kid was illegally doing drugs and he robbed others. Can’t trust those people either.

    COME ON MAN! GET REAL. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

    3. “Finally, if you want to leave America because you hate it: that’s fine. Nothing is worth being miserable for. But a lot of you guys posting in the comments are just looking to find a society where you can take a lot and contribute nothing.”

    A society that cares nothing, and even has contempt for, the working man? We’re supposed to dutifully “contribute” to a society which holds selfishness as one of its highest ideals? You can’t have it both ways. Either society values the family, its neighbors as an extension of that family, or everyone is a mercenary. Action talks, bullshit walks.

    There is no value in patriotic self delusion. Its better to acknowledge the faults of the country, and even be overly critical so as to facilitate change, then to be self-deluded or willfully ignorant.

    Response: Ok, so our society is so selfish right? What about Medicare, Medicaid, the new healthcare law that got passed? What about the fact that my Mexican friend who happens to be illegal got government grants to pay for most of his education and now he’s working as an engineer. I guess you are not one sided, I guess you are looking at things objectively. Those government programs really make things horrible here. I guess our selfish system which allows so many a decent standard of living is horrible. WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE ALL OR NOTHING? I CALL AND SMELL BULLSHIT SIR CYNIC. You can encourage hard work and indepdendence while also promoting the common good.

    What do you prefer hydrogonian? To place sex tourist Roosh who promotes minimization of women as your role model? He is a smart guy, I’m not going to say he isn’t. He teaches us about social interactions. I’ll give him that. He entertains with his stories, I’ll give him that. But the attitudes behind his teachings aren’t for the good of society always. That view of women he holds is a mixture of a marketing tool and frustration of past rejections he has experienced. But I think it’s too easy to paint such broad stereotyped views of a whole country or a whole gender.

  • Sam

    Look I don’t know whether these are men or women responding above me; I’d like to respond for myself.

    Hygronian-

    Your argument that America is failing intellectually has to do with IQ test measures? These are dated, stupid, culturally-biased tests that measure nothing of significance. So the fuck what- their miserable, over-schooled children score 5 points higher than our kids. It is an entirely arbitrary measurement and test scores have never correlated with actual accomplishments. In terms of scientific innovation and production, America is unmatched.

    You go on to say that you cant trust Americans. Unbelievable how obnoxious it is to say something like that; you just sound like a bitter old guy.

    Then you say you enjoy being lazy; fine, whatever I don’t care, I would never tell another man how to live his live.

    You think America has lost respect for the value of masculinity, and the importance of women playing more traditional feminine roles. I get it, I’m annoyed too when girls try to BS with me like they are one of the guys. It’s not funny or cute. But I don’t think these roles have vanished.

    In every relationship with an American girl I’ve been in, when I acted like the man, they deferred and acted like the woman. When I’ve regrettably acted like a pussy, I got treated accordingly. If a disgust for the local women is driving you to leave the country, I don’t blame you. If I hated the women as much as you guys did, I would leave too. But you seem to have this attitude that anyone that sticks around here is some kind of bitch.

    And finally you say that we are a society that does not protect the working man. Youre looking for a society that looks out for its people, an unselfish society. I guess you’re talking about certain European/Scandanavian coutries? Ok fine, so live there- different philosophies about baseline levels of social welfare. I love the opportunities here, and where you see a loving society, I just see laziness and effeminate men.

  • mr t

    is Sam = Samantha?

    sure sounds like it.

    damn, the jezebel article was not a good turning point for this blog.

    this blog has had trolls, but these jezebel trolls take the cake.

  • 2cents

    As someone who has a bit of insight into Brasil I have to say that there are 2 sides to every coin. While there are a ton of downsides to living here in the states (lots of which you’ve mentioned already), there are also a ton of downsides to living in an exotic country like Brasil. Once in Brasil and hanging out with locals, take notice to how much weight they put into security. Every Brasilian I know has been robbed by knife or gunpoint. Feeling and being safe is something we Americans take for granted. Not to mention that in many of these 3rd world countries you’ve mentioned living in, once you become more fluent in their language you’ll realize that they also have ass backwards, ignorant and downright moronic people too. Basically we’re all humans and that in itself guarantees a significant percentage of dead weight.

  • hydrogonian

    “Your argument that America is failing intellectually has to do with IQ test measures? These are dated, stupid, culturally-biased tests that measure nothing of significance. So the fuck what- their miserable, over-schooled children score 5 points higher than our kids.”

    I disagree. And it is possible to take a “culturally unbiased” IQ test based entirely on patterns. You can find a good, free, legitimate, unbiased test online. 5 IQ points is a large enough difference to be significant, when a society of one billion people is responsible for this 5 point increase. The difference in the upper deviation, between an average of 100 and an average of 105, amplifies that significance. 7-10 points is, obviously, more relevant.

    I’ve never argued with a smart person that discounted the validity of these tests. Its usually the lower IQ person being defensive. I’m not making a comment about you, but just making an observation that just because you don’t want something to be true, doesn’t mean that it isn’t. Psychologists use these tests in the most elite secondary schools in the USA today. If they weren’t valid, they wouldn’t use them for assessment.

    “It is an entirely arbitrary measurement and test scores have never correlated with actual accomplishments.”

    No? I agree that there are under achieving people with higher IQs and over achieving people with lower IQs, but I’d surmise that it averages out so that people with above average IQs make the bulk of significant contributions. Especially as these contributions become more complex in nature. Its likely going to be a Doctor(of anything) or an Engineer who makes the bulk of contributions in any field. Simply because they have the education needed to solve problems. It takes an above average IQ, in most instances, to attain that education.

    “In terms of scientific innovation and production, America is unmatched.”

    A generalization that may hold true for the last half of the last century, but wont be true in the future and wasn’t true before that time.

    “You go on to say that you cant trust Americans. Unbelievable how obnoxious it is to say something like that; you just sound like a bitter old guy.”

    haha…what a joke. Your naive in the extreme. What you call bitter and old I call experience. And I’m 33. And I didn’t say that you can’t trust all Americans. I inferred that you can’t trust most people when they have a choice where their self interest will injure you. If you can’t trust someone to make a choice outside of their self interest, then you can’t trust them. Pure and simple. To claim otherwise borders on the idiotic.

    “Then you say you enjoy being lazy; fine, whatever I don’t care, I would never tell another man how to live his live.”

    Im doubting your ability to argue well, now. Its hard for me to respect someone who lacks that ability. I didn’t say that I enjoyed being “lazy” (ad hominem, anyone?). I was making a counterpoint to your claim that South Americans were lazy. If I had less class, I’d call you a moron for framing this insulting point like you did.

    “You think America has lost respect for the value of masculinity, and the importance of women playing more traditional feminine roles. I get it, I’m annoyed too when girls try to BS with me like they are one of the guys. It’s not funny or cute. But I don’t think these roles have vanished.”

    The thing is, you emphatically don’t get it. It goes way beyond your little relationship issues, or lack thereof. The fact that you believe that its a s simple as this, tells me that you don’t understand what its about. It has to do with the law, morality, economics, and the general effect on society as a whole. Get back to me when you gain some context and true historical perspective.

    “In every relationship with an American girl I’ve been in, when I acted like the man, they deferred and acted like the woman. When I’ve regrettably acted like a pussy, I got treated accordingly.”

    Congrats, you are minimally able to maintain a relationship as a non-pussy. On this board, that’s like saying “I know how to breath”. However, what I’m referring to is at least two levels of insight beyond that. You don’t get it, as of now. Oh, and talk to me after you date a truly dominant woman. We’ll see how much patience you have after a year. There’s a difference between normal shit testing from a normal woman and a true alpha female, which are proliferating.

    “If a disgust for the local women is driving you to leave the country, I don’t blame you. If I hated the women as much as you guys did, I would leave too.”

    I didn’t say I was leaving, I just inferred that I understand.

    To each his own. But its a long life. I venture that your perspective will slowly change. But I also have a friend or two like you, who has that typical “everything is positive even if its not” mindset. Also, they have a seemingly unyielding trust in doing “what they are supposed to”. Their results vary significantly.

    In a way, what this board is about, is lowering the risk of having a shitty life. Guys who do only what they are told-is-correct are leaving their lives in the hands of a society which does not have their best interest at heart. Women, work, and travel are the primary focus toward the end of adjusting their risk.

    “And finally you say that we are a society that does not protect the working man. Youre looking for a society that looks out for its people, an unselfish society. I guess you’re talking about certain European/Scandanavian coutries? Ok fine, so live there- different philosophies about baseline levels of social welfare. I love the opportunities here, and where you see a loving society, I just see laziness and effeminate men.

    You have no idea what you are talking about, on several levels. I’m referring to a society in which the people effectively look after themselves, as a society. And I wasn’t talking about Scandinavia. Your an emotional mass of shallow opinions. Anyone who knows how economics affects sociology doesn’t share your opinion. Your lack of analysis and experience prevents real conversation, and I can’t educate you.

    Also, It would be interesting to compare how relatively lazy and effeminate we both are. Since you insist on these generalizations.

  • hydrogonian

    And I never said that America is “failing intellectually”. Yet another dishonest re-framing of my opinion. You can’t extrapolate an opinion in an argument, especially that one.

  • Firepower

    roissh

    …bars, which are still the main way that Western girls have sexual relations…

    And, therein lies the crux of the problem: making a silk purse from a sow’s ear.

    Or, expecting Miss DreamGirl emanating from a font of well drinks.

  • Gary

    So you want to subsume your ego into a larger unit and feel a sense of national pride? That I don’t get, and doesn’t seem very compatible with the individualistic ethos of game. Besides, national glory is always ephemeral, one country rises another falls, should we hop from country to country to get that euphoric sense of belonging to a rising nation? And while China and Brazil are rising, in every metric, including past and present achievement, they are nowhere near the US, so I don’t see how anyone could be more “proud”, in a purely nationalistic sense, of being Brazillian or Chinese than America.

    The only good reason for wanting to live outside America is simply for the lifestyle – better girls and funner living, not to bury our egos in some sense of group solidarity – that’s not how a pua is supposed to think, roosh, I’m ashamed of you :) It’s interesting how strong a hold these archaic nationalistic notions have on people even when their official life philosophies – in your case, game – encourages bold independence and individualism. But I’m a firm believer that we perfect ourselves by rising above the archaic elements of our nature that do not serve useful ends, like nationalism, which is just silly.

  • Anonymous

    I’m hoping its just DC. It’s amazing how bad it is over here.

  • Buddy

    at #7 who said: “Everyone loves to say America is going to shit, that our age of dominance is over. In terms of science and engineering; this is completely wrong. We still have the highest concentration of smart people in the entire world working harder than anywhere else to solve problems and push the boundaries of current technology.”

    Try saying this in 20 years. You wont be able to. It is sad to see this but nevertheless is true: The USA is fast becoming an empty shell of what was once a great country.

  • http://www.globaldatingrevolution.com Dan DeLa Cruz

    #7 Sam – Your totally wrong. Everyone is not saying America is going to shit, especially not Americans. Turn on the T.V. listen to the radio, did you happen to catch Obama’s State of the Union? The fact is that most Americans, like you, are bullish on the United States and unwilling to admit it’s mistakes and problems. Yeah there are more people complaining now, then a few years ago, but most Americans are oblivious to the decline, either because they have not taken the time to educate themselves or because they refuse to accept a reality that is tough to swallow..

    Maybe you just don’t want to beleive it’s true, but denial is not the answer. Neither is labeling any men who would consider expatriating, loosers who can’t get laid and who jump on the band wagon. You sound like those people from Bush administration who labeled anyone who did not support the war on Iraq as anti-American, and lacking patriotism, as if the definition of a good patriot is one who blindly follows orders no matter how curropt, or incompetent they may seem.

    When a country/empire/region/even city goes down hill, the first people to leave are the smart and wealthy people? These are the people with connections, and with real education. Look up an article called “Seeking Opportunity Abroad,” in newsweek – an increasing number graduates from the U.S.A’s top business schools are seeking jobs abroad instead of staying right here in the United States.

    Do you know any very wealthy people? Millionairs? If you do, ask them how much of their equity investments they now allocate abroad? Ask them how much they allocated abroad 10 years ago. There’s a unprecented flight of capital flowing to regions of the world where business have better environments for growth.

    And what about taxes. The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. And what personal taxes for an average Joe. You have 27% marginal tax rate, then you have your state tax, which is high in most states, social security, and medicare, unemplyment insurance. What about all the the other taxes we pay at time of cunsumption, like sales tax, etc. The U.S. is one of the highest taxed nations in the world. The government here takes about half your money, half of what you produce, if not more, and I’m not even counting the iflation tax. How many young talented people do you think want to start a busines and/or work for a business and give half of their production to the government?

    Our parents, and grandparents came to the U.S. because you could keep what you earn, government was small, taxes were lower, and there was more freedom (mainly the freedom to be productive and keep what you earn). That’s not the case today. Cost of living is higher than ever, wages are stagnant, inflation is higher, personal and government debt are at record highs…

    Now lets talk about the national debt. 12 Trillion budget deficit, now if you add in the unfunded liabilities your talking over 100 Trillion in debt. Who’s on the hook for that? The tax payers. The government collects about 2 Trillion in taxes from the entire country. If we don’t spend one more dime, it would take 50 years of taxation for the government to pay back the debt it’s undertaken in our name. Do you think young American’s want to stay here and foot the bill for the wreckless government spending?

    The truth is that the real people who built The United States were the generations that preceeded us. Our grandparents and those before them. You want to talk about a society where you can take a lot and and contribute nothing? Look no further than today’s America, filled with 300 Million Americans who feel they are entitled to everything, but produce very little. China lends us the money we use to consume the goods they produce. We’ve managed to squander the wealth built on the backs of previous generations. It’s because of people of like you Sam, that are asleep at the wheel, that this country is where it is today.

    Now that’s just the Economics. I’m not even going to start on the women… But go ahead, listen to Jim Cramer and Obama. You can cheerlead on the deck of the titanic all you want, your not king of the world…

    Like Roosh, many of us don’t see the changes that would turn this countries trajectory off of this decline. Although many of us would hope to see some positive changes, the smart people are starting to plant flags outside of the U.S.A, just in case…

  • hot alpha female

    well, exactly! 8:1 is just a head count. Most girls aren’t there to get laid but almost all guys are. So, the “real” ratio is more like 30:1.

    You boys better step your game up and make me feel like I’m the only girl in the world if you want to see those panties off.

  • The Bachelor Times

    Solid post. This one really hit home for me as I’m moving to Europe for many of the above reasons. Tired of what I witness. Guy to girl ratio in the city I live in is out of control and I avoid the club scene. It’s really bad.

    5 years ago I might look past this and put in a ton of effort, but now it’s just not worth it. I’m up in Canada and we basically follow our neighbours to the south, be it at a much slower pace.

    Step my game up Alpha female? Please. When I can go elsewhere and get better quality women with less effort? You have to be kidding me. Have fun sleeping with Jersey shore and the rest of the sad state of North America.

  • Anonymous

    ““permanently damaged” after rich experience”

    Don’t kid yourself Roosh. You’ve traveled to a few countries, lived in hostels, and couldn’t get laid in your early 20′s. Not once have I ever thought you lived richly. You’ve had some fun, taken time off work, but I wouldn’t say richly.

  • Anon like your Mom

    I’m willing to bet Hydrogonian is Roosh.

    I think it’s funny how Hydrogonian’s repsonse to Sam’s second post totally degenerated and became a personal insult of Sam, his intelligence and his ability to argue. It seemed to be more of a personal insult than a response to his points. Someone is completely biased and brainwashed.

    Someone above stated how people put so much stock into national pride. I think overly identifying with a group is dumb. Including those who overly identify with anti-americanism.

    I defend the USA because it is annoying to see people be so one sided. Yeah, it has tons of problems. But at least admit the good about it.

  • choichoi

    BR can pretty effed up and they half-ass on alot of stuff like gov’t policy, foreign student registration and education. I taught teenagers in a public school in fortaleza for a good 4 months and they lacked alot of the amenities that American pub schools are given automatically, such as, text books, computers for every individual students and the list went on.
    Brazil has a ways to go and the NE needs lotsa infrastructure redevelopemnent. Esse e’ o povao do BR!

  • choichoi

    I’m black and chinese (4th gen), I want nothing to do with china.

  • K-Man

    I’ve lived in several countries (incl. USA for 8+ years) and I gotta say there is no perfect place. Now I’m in Eastern Europe and while life is less stressful, the women more beatiful, and the people more laid-back, there are huge problems with things like national budget deficits, infrastructure, corruption, and potential for growth vs. China and India. And I do keep my money in the USA, now I’m not a millionnaire but I do know something about investing. Open up the financials of any large US corporation and you’ll see they get 30%, 40%, 50%, or even 60% of their sales from emerging markets. Americans are good at organizing and managing, and while there may be cost advantages or educational advantages of other countries, US corporations are not just US but global and well position to grow and profit from the rise of the 3rd world.

  • http://thedcam.com thedcam

    “Roosh Syndrome” seems eerily similar to “Fight Club Syndrome”… actually it’s not so eerie, it’s probably the most healthy thing ever.

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  • Anonymous

    Its funny how people claim that DC is supposed to be a heaven of so many single people, especially women, yet virtually every place is all male, all the time. I”m guessing the women all hang out at places that I cannot afford. Sucks to be me. Or maybe not.

  • RAF SL

    I just wanted to say, regarding your comments on America- Amen. It’s nice to hear somebody speaking the truth for a change.

    I escaped too ;)