Not That Important

One of the first things I learned after I bought my motorcycle was to always watch my rear when stopped at a traffic light. I would keep the bike in gear and look in my mirrors to make sure the car behind me was slowing down to a stop. If not, I would be ready to maneuver out of the way. Getting rear ended on a motorcycle is so dangerous for the rider that it’s a simple precaution you take to stay safe. But I never do that in my car, and I don’t know anyone who does.

Three years ago I met Jen through a friend of mine. We developed a rapport where I would give her advice, especially on how to get this one guy she really liked. She was always very kind to me. Eventually I lost touch with her and she pursued a graduate degree to become a therapist.

On Thursday night she was sitting in her car at a red light. Her passenger was a guy she just started dating. A drunk driver did not see the traffic light and plowed into her car, killing both her and her date.

It’s inevitable that a lot of people will tell her family that she is “in a better place now.” Unfortunately she is not. Everything that you are, that makes you you, and gives you this state of consciousness to know that you are a different being from everything else on the planet, resides in your brain. Once you die and the cells in your brain die, it’s game over. The only good part about dying, I guess, is that you will never know you are dead. It will be just like before you were born. If you don’t make the history books or leave a collection of written works, you will live on in the memories of those who were close to you until they die themselves. And even if you do leave a legacy, you will never know the impact you made. No matter how happy or fulfilling of a life you live, or how rich or poor you become, it will end the same for all of us. We should all be grateful of consciousness, but cursed by it as well. I have never known real suffering, but knowing your existence will end can’t be far from it.

The more I become a student of life, the harder it is to come to the conclusion that a supreme being is guiding the course of man with a meaningful grand plan. Our lives are governed more by random events, by statistical probabilities, than something that leads to a final purpose. In the cosmic scale of things, our lives are not even a blink of the eye. If life was a chess match, not only would we not be the pieces, but we would barely be the speck of dust on the chess board itself. While our lives have no real meaning, this consciousness makes us believe that we are special, enough to keep us alive and continue life for the next generation. That’s all life is. Jen had 24 years of life and I’m sure she gave it the best she could, but I know she didn’t expect to go so soon. If she was in one lane over, she would be alive right now. If such a trivial decision decides whether two human beings continue their existence or not, life definitely cannot be that important.

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  • http://www.chickchatradio.com HeidiChick

    Amen Brother.

    Sorry to hear that news.

  • http://www.kassyk.blogspot.com KassyK

    Great post. :-)

  • Anonymous

    Jen that worked with you?

  • Stephen (VA)

    In my junior year at Georgia Tech, I took on class on the rherotic of economics. In that class was a bright, attractive, happy girl named Molly. In that first day of class, Molly broke down crying when Prof Z called on her (necessitating her participation in class discussion). It turns out Molly feared public speaking.

    Prof Z, and the rest of the class, was supportive. As the semester went by, Molly got to be comfortable answering Prof Z’s questions, and then to debating with other students. We (her and I) even had quite the rousing conversation at the local coffeehouse one night, involving alot of other people in a debate. This was something that 3 months prior, she would not have been able to do.

    At the end of the semester, Molly was going home when he car suffered a freak control failure, and she slammed into a tree, killing her. As Molly and I were somewhat close, I went down to her funeral, and, overcome by emotion, had to leave before the ceremony ended. Dead bodies freak me out, but something else didn’s settle well.

    A year prior, I had been involved in a freak control failure accident heading to Austin, TX. However, myself and my friend survived without injury, despite the car splitting in two.

    Why does one survive and another die? Either you attribute no meaning at all, or you attribute meaning. I think when you lose someone, you want to think it meaningless, especially at such a young age. I think that when you miraculously survive, you want to treat it as meaningful.

    Be as it may that we are sand specks on the beach, our lives are still important, and still meaningful, even when they are ended much too shortly. To suggest otherwise would be an acceptance of living of life of nothing-ness, since nothing would matter in that worldview.

    Molly died, but her life wasn’t unimportant. 17 strangers bonded over her triumph against her fears, and those 17 people in some ways learned how to combat theirs. Heartbroken, but resolved, Molly’s sister came to GaTech the next year, and helped by 17 strangers she did not know, she flourished at Tech. I believe she graduated by now, and that is a very loud testimonial to the indominability of the human spirit.

  • Anonymous

    Life is like currency… a dollar bill is really just a piece of paper unless people believe it has meaning.

  • MORPHEUS

    We all live in a matrix dude. Right now your real body is on a spaceship cruising the worlds sewers. You have friends there, don’t be fooled. When your phone rings, pick it up and you’ll see what i’m talking about….

  • Prozac Jones

    Death is Certain, Life is Not………

  • Anonymous

    Read Mere Christianity. It is the “thinking” man’s book to the grand question of life after death. Step by step logic from one of the greatest philosphers of all time, C.S. Lewis.

  • http://recoveringoverachiever.blogspot.com Recovering Overachiever

    Sorry to hear about your friend.
    You raise a lot of really interesting questions. Great post.

  • dcdevel

    I hear you on both counts: I’ve had both friends and family die suddenly AND been rear-ended on a motorbike (carrying a passenger too). In the case of the rear end, not only was nobody hurt but I didn’t even drop the bike. What’s this mean? Absolutely nothing; when your number is up it’s up, and yes, it totally sucks. Does this imply there’s no meaning in life and it’s not important? No. It’s as important as you the individual make it. Is it sometimes random? Yes. The fact that you’re blogging about her shows she’s made an impression on at least on other person (you), and that person cared about her. That’s important.

  • yoda

    Deep like, ssssooooooooooooo that was.

  • Roissy

    life is a chaos of nothing with no meaning other than to fuck.
    there is no purpose.
    there is no magical karmic retribution.
    there is no grand plan.
    if there is a god he is an indifferent voyeur at best and a cruel malevolent sithlord at worst.

    “when your number is up it’s up”

    you can reduce your chances of your number being up by not driving. lessee, how many americans died in iraq since the start of the war? 2500? now how many americans died in cars in the past year alone?
    40 fucking thousand.
    the average person is more afraid of snakes and spiders than driving because we have not had enough time co-evolving with cars to acquire a proper fear and respect of them as well.

  • Roosh

    Accepting the belief that life is ultimately meaningless gives people more options to pursue things without being constrained by cultural or societal rules.

    Even though I believe our existence to mean nothing, I place more value on life because I know it’s a one-shot deal. In the end I still have these feelings, desires, wants, and needs that I can not get rid of — so instead of moping, obsessing over death, I am more motivated to do those things I really want to do because I know there is a clock working against me.

    If anyone has been through a death with someone close, they remember how strong the death hit them at the time, but months later the importance of that deaths fades away and your life continues on the path it was on before. No matter what impact someone’s death had on you, nothing will change unless you believe that time is working against you every second of the day. Not all of us here are going to live until old age.

  • Tampa

    The debate is this world really all centers around a guy named Jesus….and did he actually rise from the dead.. Most of the other stuff you read about the navigations and trials are actually true. The guy was here. The guy did do things. They had 6-8 guys who wrote about him. He was tried and crucified. The only argument is over whether he rose from the dead. That is really the backbone of the christian faith. If he did — there is a supreme being. If he didn’t — they were all just a bunch of pot smoking — trippin hippies. I guess you will know when the car slams into the back of you. You can’t really fear death. It is life’s ultimate common denominator. I do like to think that someone magical created this incredible planet. Its really hard for me to believe that those great oceans — those huge mountains… the symphoney of the seasons all just happened in a “big bang.” If you look around and just observe the magical musical of mankind it is quite breathtaking. Hard to imagine it just being a coincidence.

    But then again – -I am no priest.

  • http://www.shebangsshebangs.blogspot.com Namaste

    None of us expect it to go so soon. I’m very sorry about your friend.

  • http://www.circlev.blogspot.com V

    First, I’m really sorry to hear about your friend. That’s awful.

    Second, I have been thinking more and more about this topic. I agree with Marx that religion is the opiate of the people, and it’s scary that many people live their lives thinking that as long as they adhere to whatever rules someone said thousands of years ago, they’ll be fine. Just seems like a waste.

    I’m not saying I am really living my life as someone who knows this is all I’ve got, but it’s certainly a goal. I also wonder what the world would look like if most people weren’t tethered to beliefs that their actions will matter later? Not sure if things would be better?maybe not different at all?

  • Joe T.

    This shit is too deep for me, man…

  • Tampa

    Ever seen a man without a concious? without a moral compass? Its almost disgusting. Go to a courthouse and watch a trail of a violent offender. It is just soul-less to look at a man that cares about nobody but himself. It is almost sad.

    Religion is more then a traffic light keeping everything in order. Human beings are a lot smarter then most people realize and if they thought it was a bill of goods — they wouldn’t buy it.

    I just have to believe that there is a moral compass. Nothing is sadder then seeing a man with no soul.

  • Anonymous

    tampa=moron
    please take your magic-man-in-the-sky beliefs elsewhere

  • Stephen (VA)

    Anonymous, you sure added something valuable to this post.

    Whether you’re religious or not, what works for you is not necessarily what works for others. If a belief in God helps someone get through the day, enjoy life a little bit more, etc, then so be it. If not believing in a God for someone does the same thing, so be it.

    It’s a personal decision. Why insult it?

  • eugenius

    good post

  • Veggie Food

    well done, as usual.

  • http://www.loupickney.com Lou P.

    Excellent post. I’m sorry to hear about your friend.

  • Ned

    life’s an illusion, baby

  • http://www.circlev.blogspot.com V

    Wow, Tampa, that might be one of the most narrow minded comments I’ve ever read.

    I like it that you assume only the religious have a moral compass or conscience or that violent people aren’t religious (have you read the new testament?). Selfishness is not exclusive to those people who don’t believe there is a god presiding over this world. In fact, for those of us who are pretty sure this world is all we got, we are much more predisposed to care about it and those living on it. All you have to do is live your life and then declare your allegiance to God on your deathbed. Pretty sweet deal.

    Furthermore, what the hell is a moral compass? And which part of the bible or Koran would you take it from as both are wrought with contradictions? I think your mistake is equating ?having a soul? with making good choices and then assuming that only religious people can do that.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry about your friend.

    Tampa, I only have one God, and he’s on the side of the hundy dollar bill. Maybe even the fiddy dollar bill. That’s right, I wish I could go to church at the US Treasury. Hallallujah!!!

  • http://www.kathrynon.com Kathryn

    A truly moral person is one who holds themself to the highest of ethical standards, without fear of going to hell (or getting into heaven) as incentive.

  • Matt

    Im sorry, I usually dont like to be one of those people that picks out every typo in a post, but the first line of Tampa’s comment is just too much.

    “Ever seen a man without a concious”

    What? Ever seen? Concious?

    I hope to hell that while you are watching these “sadder” “souless” men in court you are not their lawyer, because if you are, I assume they are now lifeless.

  • A.D

    Death is depressing, but it’s part of the deal. You don’t get to live unless you are prepared to die- no one is exempt from death.

    If given the option to never have exsisted, or to live and then accept death, I would always chose to live and accept death. Life is so valuable because we only have it for a limited amount of time.

    Everyone around me is aging, my dad has dementia, and the only way I stay positive is reminding myself to live, and that human life is so valuable because it can be stolen from us at any moment, and I simply try to treasure each day because I believe my exsistence ends here on Earth.

  • A.D

    When my aunt fell into a coma, I was 19. It made me realize that I never wanted to spend another moment intoxicated, or even sleep in late.

    You only have so many minutes in your life to be conscious, thinking, and taking in reality. If the suppose best years of our lives are the 18-30 age bracket why spend it with alcohol or partying so hard you can’t remember what happened the night before?

  • Lalu

    Why do people think it’s OK to jump all over someone who is religious? Tampa is allowed his thoughts, too. I didn’t know hoping people had a moral compass was narrow-minded.

    Overall, though, I agree w/ Kathryn. Regardless of what we believe, living our best life (life in the moment, life not hurting others, life of love and fun, life in the community of people) shouldn’t be about being afraid of ultimate judgement. Life is meaningful regardless of whether some creator is counting it as such. Isn’t this second meaningful to all of us?

  • Jesus

    Yes ease up off him, for he believes in me children.

  • Ted Haggert

    So do I Jesus. Are there gays in heaven with a meth lab around back??????

  • http://www.circlev.blogspot.com V

    Lalu: Re-read what I posted. It isn’t because Tampa is being religious (which I wasn’t calling that narrow minded), it was because he/she was assuming people who weren’t religious were without a moral compass. I get sick of that argument.

  • Tampa

    where does the moral foundation for the world come from? it wasn’t just made up.. It didn’t just evolve. we aren’t cave men. do you think that stealing, adultrey, murder were just concieved as bad.? nobody every claimed relegion be free of terrible people. At least I never stated that.

    I am no bible beating christian….but you can not dispute the historical relevance of christianity. It isn’t some mystical theory derived from the stars. The book of John was written by a guy named “John.” You can’t let fallwell and robertson erode your belief in a supreme being, but you can not dispute the fact that the old testament and the gospels are as much of a historical document as they are a relogious document.

    no i am not a lawyer. and yes I do believe in god. i don’t think this human race and world were made through evoloution.

    good post DCB. we needed this debate.

  • Lalu
  • Tampa

    never said that people who weren’t relgious didn’t have a moral compass. Never ever said that.

    I said a violent offender has no moral compass. Which i believe. I believe a guy who would put a gun to someones head — beat the crap out of them and steal thier shit is lacking a moral compass.

    I sense anger in your arugment as well. I feel no anger towards you. It doesn’t really bother me. I think people see religion as Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson and the extreme right.
    I don’t.
    I am well aware that the Southern Baptist Leadership Conference was one of the biggest proponents of segragetion in 1960. Thier are plenty of bad people in all faiths.

  • sean

    You know, if Christianity was truth….The vast majority of people who ever breath go to hell. Which makes being aborted a “get out of jail free card” of sorts, so the Christians should really get behind it. If they had any moral compass that is….. That said, what people really need is a MORON compass. We’d all be better off. BTW, David Blaine’s tricks are waaaaaaay better than that Jesus guy’s. Water into wine? Oh please, that’s so BC.

  • Roissy

    “It didn’t just evolve.”

    actually, yes it did.

  • Anonymous

    The belief in something bigger than yourself (religious or just compassionate with no religious connection) is kind of like the stock market. if everyone loses faith in the market and pulls out, panic ensues and everyone loses. if everyone stops believing in some form of greater good and/or meaning of life, we will turn back into the animals that we evolved from and everyone will ultimately suffer.

    that’s the most important part about any of this… It’s not what you believe (religious or otherwise, etc.) as much as it is the contageousness of your actions and attitude that you spread to those around you… positive or negative… its your choice.

  • Ned

    the “moral compass” is different in every animal; it is necessary for species’ survival.

    But in “reality” the universe is non-dual. there is no good or bad except in our own heads

  • mhm

    What’s harder to believe. That there is divine all knowing force that created the world, or that random chance is the force that governs the world?

  • Canuck Kernal

    “it’s a simple precaution you take to stay safe. But I never do that in my car, and I don’t know anyone who does.”

    You haven’t been around (smart) Canadian drivers. Far too many assholes cannot stop in the winter. Far too often these assholes also drive medium to large SUVs. Often it’s iciest at stop signs and red lights, because that where the most slowing down and speeding up occurs. I’ve seen too many rear enders. So any good Canuck driver leaves themselves enough room in front, to change lanes or move forward, and watches their rearview at the stoplight.

  • Anonne

    I would say that all of nature cries out that there is a supreme being, although people will disagree as to who it is and what its nature is. Everything is so elegantly designed – okay, for you doubters, composed – and works together in a grand supersystem of supersystems. Good luck having all that happen by chance.

    The animals don’t think about a divine creature but their needs are taken care of. They, like us, are subject to the same forces that will shape, make, or break us – that we don’t know why or when or the wherefores doesn’t mean that there isn’t a purpose bigger than us. It may just mean that our place is not to know since we are not supreme.

    I’m sorry for the loss of your friend. Be thankful you had her in your life. Maybe that is the lesson you were supposed to learn: to be thankful for those people who come into your life and make it better. But ultimately, every death tells us that we should value the one life we have and to be prepared.

  • CDP

    Anonne – It’s the most specious of arguments to claim that because something is incredibly complex, improbable, or unexplained as of yet that it BY NECESSITY implicates a higher being designed it. It’s just not a logical argument.

    In place of the higher entity/designer, why not a duck? Or a microbe? Or Murray, the guy down the street who makes bagels and smells funny?

    The burden of proof if you make that jump is on you to explain how this higher being did all of this. At least the evolutionary camp puts out an argument.

  • Joe T.

    Somebody:

    ?It didn’t just evolve.?

    Roissy-pie:

    “actually, yes it did.”

    Or in some cases, it evolved a little bit, and then it devolved a lot.

    Seriously, Roissy, your statement about life being meaningless except for fucking — are you serious?

    If everybody had that attitude we’d still be Chimps.

  • Greg

    CDP,

    I don’t think he’s saying that the conplexity and improbability of the universe *necessitates* design, but that design is a more compelling explanation than random occurence. By all means, each can make his own logical assessment of the evidence either way, and in fact must, since it is impossible to prove either way (there can’t be a “burden of proof” for something that is improvable). Design is most certainly a logical argument, and if you fail to at least see the logic, then I’m afraid you’re the one that’s in error. The very fact you think our conception of God is equivalent to a duck means you sorely lack a real understanding of what you’re arguing against. This is reinforced by your demand that we (mortal, temporal beings) must prove God’s existence by describing how He (omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, transcending space and time) made all creation. Go read a book and try becoming informed, at least…

  • Stephen (VA)

    All I know is that there was this Big Bang, and something before that, and something before that, and rather than get caught up in infinite backtracking, I just believe that at some point there was something there that is timeless, and whatever you want to call that, fine.

    It works for me. Whatever floats your boat and gets you through the day without mucking up mine.

  • cjt

    “Mind” does not equal “Brain”.
    When the brain cannot function as the physical vessel the “mind”, which is a part of “spirit”, departs intact. It’s destination or possible eventual fragmentation or even annihilation depends upon the spirits prior belief system and/or state of “mind” at death. Try sifting through the new age quackery concerning near death experience and find for yourself. It takes some time but the clinical proof is out there. In my case hopeful thinking and faith were not part of the process used to derive these conclusions.

    http://www.thepsychictimes.com/articles/fenwick.htm

    Near Death Experience NDE Story
    of Mellen-Thomas Benedict
    Journey Through the Light and Back

    http://mellen-thomas.com/stories.htm

  • http://www.playazball.com Phil

    Sorry to hear that.

    My $0.02 is that yes, there is a God, and we are allowed free will – which means we can make life what we want.

  • DF

    I cannot conclusively say there is or is not a God or maybe many Gods although I find it very unlikely. People can buy whatever religion gives their lives structure, community, meaning, and/or purpose just as long as “believers” don’t force their beliefs on me. While I am inclined to believe that in some way the purpose of life is indeed to perpetuate itself, i.e. procreation, I can’t help but think that perhaps for human beings it is more than that. I think that with people, the potential exists for individual improvement that would lead to, in aggregate, the perfection of the species so that we become more than just animals (which we are). I will not say that we are to become gods as gods are not ?born?, they are supposed to have always existed and human beings are created therefore the two cannot converge but I am an optimist. And if I am able to improve myself and make a larger impact to the body of human knowledge or strive to do so, then that is sufficient purpose and meaning for me.

  • Nabs

    “if everyone stops believing in some form of greater good and/or meaning of life, we will turn back into the animals that we evolved from and everyone will ultimately suffer.”

    Sorry, but that is the biggest load of bs I’ve ever heard. In psychology there are three levels of moral development: pre-conventional (before age 9, most children have a pre-conventional morality of self interest ie they only do the right thing because they know they will be punished or rewarded), conventional (by early adolescence morality usually evolves to a more conventional level that upholds laws and social rules simply because they are laws and rules), and post-conventional (those who develop abstract reasoning of formal operational thought may come to a third level. Post-conventional morality affirms people’s agreed-upon rights or follows what one personally perceives as basic ethical principles).

    The problem with religion is that it assumes that we are all at the pre conventional morality stage (that we are all 9 year olds) by saying do good otherwise you will go to hell etc. 2000 odd years ago (1400 odd in the case of Islam) it may have worked as the majority may have had the maturity of 9 year olds. But, now we don’t, so it becomes like an appendix – useless but just hanging on and causing people to get the occasional surgery.

    Roosh, I remember way back you wrote a post about how back in college you used to listen to trance and one day the speakers in your car screwed up. You said that it made you sad for a couple of days but didn’t have the money to fix it or something and after that you went back to being normal and got used to it. The reason I bring that up is the similarity between the solutions to that problem and this one. In other words, there is no real solution you just adjust and move on.

  • Nabs

    BTW, someone mentioned the book “Mere Christianity” by CS Lewis. I took a semester in college on that book because it was required. Lewis tries to apply logic to religion (which by its very nature is a flawed idea) and does so rather well. The whole book is based on the premise that we are born knowing what is right and wrong. If you believe that then the book is for you. Personally, I don’t see how we can be born knowing what is right and wrong when morality is a figment of the cultural imagination. Refer to my post above.

  • Matt

    “I’m sorry for the loss of your friend. Be thankful you had her in your life. Maybe that is the lesson you were supposed to learn: to be thankful for those people who come into your life and make it better.” as stated by Annone.

    This kind of shit really pisses me off; and is indicative of the self centered views pervading American life. Are we to believe that the lives of these two individuals were extinguished in order to teach an acquaintance a trivial lesson? Think before you speak (or write).

    In the end, nobody that has posted thus far is correct, because there is no correct answer. Why is it necessary to choose one position and stick with it even though contrary positions may offer logical explanations? It is just as plausible that our conscience evolved as a weapon for survival. Man as a species has been able to dominate the planet as a result of this simple chemical reaction, DONT KILL EACH OTHER OR DESTROY YOURSELF. A primary goal of evolution.

    It is also plausible that there are forces at work that lead individuals and species as a whole to follow certain paths in order to live harmoniously.

    My point is basically this, in caps for further emphasis, WE ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING. Whether it is science or scientology, it all leads to the same question, what is life? And I sure as hell know none of you know the answer.

  • Tampa

    “forces at that lead individuals and species as a whole to follow certain paths in order to live harmoniously.”

    athiest are totally nuts. that can’t see past basic logic. if it can’t be explained in the psychology department — if it can’t be numerated in a math problem then it can’t exist.

    spirtual being is just mystic in the eyes. Just a bunch of smoke and mirrors. they act like thier is no historical significance to the bible.

    Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell have runied religion.

    Athiests make no sense..

    yet half of them believe in karma, “you reap what you sow”, meditation…

    its just real sad.

    glad this post went 55 threads deep.

  • cjt

    Brothers and Sisters let us reverently consider the Inflatable Doll in the same eternal scientifically unanswered and improvable yet constantly pondered philosophical regard.

    For without the Breath of Life what are they but no more than useless and flaccid vessels?

    :D

  • Matt

    Tampa, you are way off on this. I am not an atheist, that sentence was meant to convey the idea that religion is just as plausible as science, both offer reasonable explanations for life.

    It has nothing to do with Robertson and Fallwell, if people lose faith over those guys than they didn’t have much in the first place.

    Find me once sentence where I bash the bible, I dont, you are simply looking for an argument. But if you could read and write legibly you would see that I am agreeing with you, and with the other side as well.

    I never said there were no spirituality involved in all of this, both sides offer equally valid points, one which YOU completely disregard.

    What does meditation have to do with anything.

  • Anonne

    Matt, I am not going to presume what the lesson is, as there could be many. I’m not so simplistic to assume that that is the ONLY reason that those people died, so get off your high horse there. But every death is a signal to all of us that we have only one life and better make the most of it. How you do that is your prerogative, of course, but it remains.

    CDP: Greg was on the money. It is not specious to suggest that there is a design, given the complexity of nature and the infinitely high probability that no such thing could exist without a design(er), and it’s a false assumption on your part to think that those who believe in design don’t believe in science. The system has laws that it follows, and science is the determination of those laws. Whether we are right or wrong about what any given law is is a separate matter.

    And asking to prove the existence of a god? Please. You prove that there is none. All of the evidence – nature, science – in my view, points to the existence of a god. It’s far too complex, balanced, and self-correcting to be anything born of chance. That humans are often idiots or wicked fools does not mean that there is no god – it is merely proof that we indeed have free will.

  • DF

    Tampa, with all due respect, the bible is not a historical document. There may be historical events that anchor some of the parables or stories but that is not the intent of the bible. Sure Jesus was a real person, historical evidence exists but the assertion that he is the son of God is open to debate as is obviously the resurrection. In fact, early Christianity struggled with whether Jesus was a being created by God or the incarnation of God. This rift was resolved in the 4th Century with the Nicene Creed that proclaimed Jesus to be God. Nothing has evolved more that Christianity itself and yet, if it was expousing the absolute truth it would remain unchanged would it not? If I may paraphrase Von Clausewitz, religion is the continuation of politics through other means. Robertson and Fallwell didn’t ruin religion, they are products of it and therefore political animals. You have to take it for what it is, a human invention, that changes with the needs of people as cultures change. The irony is that the greater the control asserted by it the less likely there is social progress. If it works for you then great. There is no need to insult atheists or anyone for that matter, that relies in the scientific method. If it weren’t for logic and the scientific method, we would still be in the stone age.

  • Stephanie

    Roosh- my 24- year old younger brother died on 9/2. I am sorry for your loss.

    “In the bottom of an old pond lived some grubs who could not understand why none of their group ever came back after crawling up the lily stems to the top of the water. They promised each other that the next one who was called to make the upward climb would return and tell what had happened to him. Soon one of them felt an urgent impulse to seek the surface; he rested himself on the top of a lily pad and went through a glorious transformation which made him a dragonfly with beautiful wings. In vain he tried to keep his promise. Flying back and forth over the pond, he peered down at his friends below. Then he realized that even if they could see him they would not recognize such a radiant creature as one of their number. The fact that we cannot see our friends or communicate with them after the transformation which we call death is no proof that they cease to exist.”
    by Walter Dudley Cavert

  • Roissy

    joe t.:
    Roissy-pie?

    “are you serious?”

    yes.

    “If everybody had that attitude we’d still be Chimps.”

    we are animals with a big CPU and a robust FSB.
    but we are animals nonetheless.

    “the infinitely high probability that no such thing could exist without a design”

    anonne, look at it this way. of the infinitely possible permutations that could have arisen over the history of the universe, one HAD to happen. the odds are unimaginably long no matter which chance event unfolds. but one of those odds has to be beaten.

    “You prove that there is none.”

    you prove that there is no santa claus.

  • Anonne

    No Santa? That’s easy. If you don’t even get a lump of coal, there can’t be a Santa!

  • Matt

    Annone, good point, I accept your response and descend from my horse.

  • Tampa

    The bible is not a historical document…?

    intresting…

    what about the old testament…?

    historical? or just all made up..

    moses was a real guy.

    the apostles were real dudes.

    Egypt was a real power back in the day.

    The Romans killed Jesus.

    you are just blabbering nonsense.

    I think if the History channel does a special on Jesus – that would help him meet the qualifications of a historical figure..and also allow the gospels (which is the story of jesus told by the apostles) to qualify as historical documents. If a guy can write a book on John Adams and it can pass as history — i think six guys writing a book about a guy can qualify as historical in context. just trying to keep it simple.

    i am not saying that he turned water into wine… but the dude was here. he walked the earth. he created LOTS of turmoil. If we want to debate the whole rising from the dead.. we can another day.

    sorry…. i think we have gotten way off subject. i apologize.

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  • Anonymous

    On the one hand, what if life is meaningless and none of it matters? What if, when it’s all said and done and we’re dead, we really are just six feet under?

    On the other hand, what if life does have meaning and all of it matters?

    I’d like to think it’s a little more of the latter and a smattering of the former. Otherwise, if none of it matters, we’d be even schmuckier than many of us already are. We already live in a world where too many people don’t give a fuck and figure it’s their life and they can do whatever the hell they want–the other guy be damned.

    At some point, life has some kind of meaningfulness which motivates us to be kind, thoughtful, considerate folk.

    Either way–good post and lots to think about.

    I’m sorry for the loss of your friend.

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  • Consul

    I disagree with your views on existence. “You cant cant solve a problem with the same mind that created it”. With science and all the religion on of the world these questions will never be answered, not because they have no answer but because they are way more complicated of what we can understand. Man has the tendency to explain with what he has, and not what could be. And if history has shown anything is that when “what could be” is the answer, then they feel really stupid for missing something so obvious.

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  • Renn

    My best friend’s younger brother died in a car accident a few years ago. It was devastating for him, his parents and the whole community to lose him.

    In his case, he was a passenger in a car that was drag-racing on the highway.

    Technically, he was a total victim, but if you look closer, he bears some of the responsibility for 1) having friends who do stupid things like drag-race 2) not speaking up when his friends starting driving at ridiculous speeds etc.

    My point is we all bear RESPONSIBILITY for what happens to us. That’s our test here on earth.

    There is a God (capitalized-how some respect). If there wasn’t, we wouldn’t even EXIST right now. The whole world wouldn’t exist. So the fact that we are allowed to be ALIVE at all is a blessing.

    Confusion comes about when people bring up the suffering in the world and people who die needlessly blah blah blah. Yes, it’s all sad and unfortunate, but again, these things happen for a REASON.

    If you read the Bible, it talks about civilizations that turned their backs on the Word of God and Natural law and how God punishes them for it by wiping them out, or by delivering them a cruel tyrant to rule over them and take their rights away (Side note: it amazes me how many people criticize the existence of God when they haven’t even CRACKED a Bible)

    The idea that God is only ‘good’ is B.S. God is what He is, ‘good’ and ‘bad.’ He created it all. He’s more of a ‘father’ figure who disciplines us when we screw up. He loves us, but will take a switch to our ass when we act like idiots.

    This ‘discipline’ comes in the form of laws (what I like to call ‘Natural laws’-laws that governments can’t supersede no matter how hard they try) that are written into the fabric of the universe. These are self-regulating laws. In other words, when someone or something tries to break them, the SHTF. It’s not immediate, but eventually it happens, and when it does, it gets UGLY.

    Now, there are plenty of examples through history of how these laws work. In the U.S., for example, our whole economy going down the toilet is the result of American people having let their guard down for a few generations. We’ve allowed the government and corporations to work against our interests by legislating laws that benefit them at the expense of average Americans. Why? Because we’ve stopped caring. We’re too involved with American Idol and other soul-deadening “entertainment.”

    In the meantime, the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913, which gave a corrupt group of bankers sole power over expanding the money supply (aka printing dollars). They criminalize the ownership of gold and any other medium of exchange except Federal Reserve notes, which are quickly becoming worthless the more they print them.

    They sign into law Bretton-Woods I and II, which removed the gold standard and later they remove Glass-Steagall, which tore down the wall between commercial banks and investment banks, which led to CDO’s and all the toxic debt instruments that followed. Basically, the free market was replaced with a crony-capitalist system and now they’re trying to blame the free market for our problems and institute European socialism (to centralize even MORE power into the hands of the few ‘connected’ individuals that would benefit from a system like that.

    In this case, the Natural laws that were broken were: 1) Property Rights (people are entitled to what they earn and shouldn’t have it inflated away or stolen through excessive taxation) 2) Right to Remain Free (free of government imposed mandates and coercion in every area of life). There are others . . .

    Now the SHTF moment that has been put into motion as a result of all this is quickly approaching in the form of another Depression, economic turmoil, revolution etc. and it’s already happening all over the world. If you listen to Ron Paul, Jim Rogers and people like that, you probably know the truth of what’s going on.

    It works on the personal level too. Have you ever cheated on your spouse? I haven’t, but I’ve personally seen the personal HELL it creates for the people who do it. it’s a built-in disciplinary response system that I believe was put in place by God to TEACH us how to live.

    Here’s another: have you ever treated someone else poorly, like really terrible, disrespectful when it’s not warranted? I’m not talking about having ‘game’ which is really a form of teasing and being playful, or even checking a girl when she says or does something that’s out of line.

    I’m talking about dishing out real negativity to someone else for no reason. If you’ve ever done that, it comes right back to you in the same energy. That person will mirror that back to you and it might even have other not-so-fun repercussions. This goes along with the maxim, ‘What comes around goes around’ and is very true.

    The Law of Attraction and Napoleon Hill in his book, ‘Think and Grow Rich’ talks about the way you think determines your future. Anyone with any sense has to agree. We are responsible for our lives and we effect the world around us with our thoughts as well.

    So while I don’t claim to have an inside knowledge of God or anything like that, I feel compelled to share what I do know. And I do know that there’s a God.

    We can’t ever understand completely why God allows the things He allows to happen, but He is there whether you accept it or not. And there is a reason for everything.

  • http://www.hokieblogger.com Gmac

    Gah, religious wall of text from above…

    Oh I love it when the evangelicals come out and blindly preach their garbage. You can’t argue with these clueless nuts.

    That aside, this is a really good post archived away Roosh.

    One of my defining moments was probably after the shooting at VA Tech (where I was attending at the time). It only further fueled my passion for life, but at that point I was already way past even considering the idea that god(s) exist(s).

  • Snowleopard

    Sorry for your loss.

    One reason i don’t drive motorcycles, is because of the number of friends who died or were permanently injured while driving them. Three of five died who had the rear end at the stoplight scenario.

    Personally i’ve been “lucky” in a way. I was driving the rear-ended car many (20+) times. Usually i saw it coming, sometimes i didn’t. Sometimes i could avoid or lessen the collision impact, sometimes there was nowhere to go. Sometimes time “slowed down” for me and i could avoid serious injury. Once my car was totaled, many times they bounced off. I am driver you don’t know who is always considering this possibility. I leave space in front so there is not the double collision and i now drive heavy SUVs or trucks with heavy duty reinforced towing setups to lower the felt impact. No accidents in many years now.

    Re the “Supreme Being” question: I cannot know the answer for sure. But, if there is a Creator God, it is likely to be experiencing itself through the totality of its creation (including us). If so, all outcomes provide experiences.

    I suspect those more limited beings that allegedly show up as “gods” with control agendas every few millenia are scam artist slavers of one sort or another.

  • AreaMan

    “Everything that you are, that makes you you, and gives you this state of consciousness to know that you are a different being from everything else on the planet, resides in your brain. Once you die and the cells in your brain die, it’s game over. The only good part about dying, I guess, is that you will never know you are dead. It will be just like before you were born.

    I’m sure you really, really hope this is true because if it’s not, you’re fucked.

  • Mr. Pointyface

    Pea-brained “Area Man”– How on earth would you know that Roosh would be fucked if he’s wrong about your imagined “afterlife?”. Do you have special transcendental knowledge?

    I see. You and your invisible friend are going to punish everyone who disagrees with you. How charming. With invisible friends like that, who needs demons?

  • John

    The more of Roosh’s material I read, the more I think the manosphere is misguided.