One reason I hate MySpace is because it makes it too easy for a girl to get a maximum amount of attention while putting in no effort. The distance between herself and you, a potential suitor, is so great that screening you out is her default move. One reason I don’t get email addresses is because it’s too easy for the girl to reply when she feels like it. She receives attention from guys and takes her time writing back even if she checks her email every 10 minutes (I guarantee you she does). One reason I don’t like coffee dates is because she doesn’t come to the date ready to perform or please. Instead, she wants to relax and let you make her feel warm and fuzzy inside over a non-alcoholic beverage.

A female blogger writes:

I LOVE coffee dates. They are totally casual and can be either long or short, depending on your shatter mode.

Exactly. Let me ask you this: have you ever first made out with someone on a coffee date? You haven’t — in fact, no one has. I don’t even see lovers making out in coffee shops. It just does not happen. When a girl wants to go on a coffee date, she is basically saying either she is not trying to hook up with you or does not want you to escalate your game. Safe and comfortable for her means late night masturbation for you. She gets to practice dating and feeling wanted on your clock.

If you don’t make out with a girl when you first meet her, you failed. If you don’t make out with her by the first date, you are a complete sucker. What are you waiting for? Be a man, get her in a bar, make her laugh over a couple drinks, and step up. If you are under 21, get a smoothie, go for a walk, sit on a bench in front of some pond with ducks, put your arm around her, and make it happen. If you are not making out with girls by the first date, you need to seriously work on your game. It doesn’t matter how old you are. If you think making out with girls by the first date is “too fast,” then you are a hopeless beta who probably doesn’t go on dates anyway.

P.S. If you liked this post then I think you will like my book Bang, a collection of simple but powerful techniques, moves, and lines that make it easier for the average 20-something man to be more successful with women. Topics in Bang include discussion of the alpha male, effective opening lines, conversation themes, getting phone numbers, detailed dating strategy, and much more.

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For a second there, I thought I was reading the script from a “Ladies Man” skit on SNL. There were some good lines in there.

Although I agree that it is quite unlikely, I once went on a coffee date that turned into an all night/next day affair and my friends were 10 minutes off from calling 911 because I had gone missing. It can happen but for all you boys/men out there, you are definitely guaranteed something when alcohol is introduced to the equation…but if you can make out with someone sans alcohol you are every girl’s dream…or something close to that.

Bar dates are just too easy. I prefer coffee dates. You get to know each other a lot better and you can see if there is any true chemistry there. I never kiss on the first date and I tend to get a bit weirded out when a guy tries to make out with me so quickly. If I end up making out with a guy on the first date, I usually never want to see him again. But yeah, give anyone a few drinks and they’re bond to have false chemistry and mess around.

This is good information. I will always suggest coffee dates now, to screen guys who don’t have any interest in actually getting to know me. I mean, why bother with the pretext of the “date” at all if all you want is sex? Nothing wrong with casual sex but don’t confuse it with dating, which exists as a way to find a compatible mate.

Coffee dates are for if you want someone to take you seriously/ want to take them seriously.
If you’re looking for a hookup right off the bat then yeah, bar dates are better.
I think kissing on the first date is as far as it should go. Maybe outside the clothes groping. If there’s sex or under the clothes action going on, chances are you found yourself a grade- A slut with no self- worth. However, sex after the 2nd date is perfectly permissable.

generally true, but extended makeouts on the first date that don’t reach closure with sex should be avoided. it’s often better to pull back a little in the beginning once you have made your intentions known and there is no doubt in her mind why you are there. more than 5 continuous minutes of frenching and you run the risk of having the girl think you are starved for the physical pleasure of makeouts and have no self-control when presented with a makeout opportunity. it’s not unknown for a guy to wonder why a girl flakes after she was “all over him”.

“If there?s sex or under the clothes action going on, chances are you found yourself a grade- A slut with no self- worth.”

Harsh generalization. I think most of us have been in situations where everything just lined up perfectly on the first go round and both parties got caught up in the flow. That doesn’t make the women involved sluts, it just means, as Andre 3000 so astutely pointed out, that “she just knows what she wants outta life.” I respect the girl who goes for what she wants (and is selective about it) much more than the one who holds back simply on the basis of some irrational fear that some generalized “other” will think she’s a slut.

I guess we’ll never go on that coffee date then ;)

The disparity between your male and female commenters in their opinions on coffee dates stems from the fact that men see coffee dates as passionless and women see them as good “getting to know you” time. I’m all for getting to know a girl I just met, but passion is equally, if not more, important, and you’re usually not going to find that over a cafe latte.

If I end up making out with a guy on the first date, I usually never want to see him again.

^ What? Are you scared of physical intimacy and penises?

Coffee dates are fine as long as they don’t stop at coffee.

coffee date : guys :: “sit in my living room and watch the basketball game” date : girls

You definitely need alcohol on a first date. Coffee sucks.

I hate Coffee dates because women breath stink from the Coffee. Hey DCB just wanted to give you the heads up that I made a guest appearance on Dateline’s “To catch a predator” with Stone Phillips/Steve Hansen. My episode should be on around late April early May from what the producers told me. Oh, that picture really isn’t my cock and I didn’t ask that 13 year old about blow jobs. The bitch set me up.

“it just means, as Andre 3000 so astutely pointed out, that ?she just knows what she wants outta life.? I respect the girl who goes for what she wants (and is selective about it) much more than the one who holds back simply on the basis of some irrational fear that some generalized ?other? will think she?s a slut.”

Mike– Nicely put. That’s my philosophy- do what you want, and own it, judgements be damned.

so what activities will you use to replace coffee dates in order to maintain your $50 cost per notch threshold for 2007?

Amen. Coffee dates are for suckers.

You shouldn’t be out on a “date” with a woman if all you’re looking for is sex. Regardless, going for coffee as a set-up to the main event shouldn’t matter. If you need her to get drunk in order for her to swallow your game (or something else), then it’s your game that needs work. Don’t blame your shitty game on coffee bars.

I totally agree with Gatsby. I like the coffee date as a set up. I have taken a couple girls out as a precusor to the “real date”, but bring myself up to second date status while saving time and money on a first date.

I’ve gone on a coffee date that became a bar date once I realized the guy was pretty cool. But that’s not always an option and I do agree that coffee dates are a cop out.

Being a woman, of course I must argue against your point that a woman must put out… Why should she put out if you’re just going to call her a slut for putting out the next day? Regardless of what each person’s expectations are, doesn’t waiting one or two more dates make the sex even better?

I agree with Jay G. It doesn’t matter where the date starts, if your game is strong enough the date will end up where you want it. I’ve gotten laid on bar dates/hook ups and I’ve gotten laid at the church single group’s bowling night. All that matters is that you find a girl that you want to bang that is open to the idea and that you don’t screw it up while trying to close the deal. No man is going to talk an ice princess into spreading her legs if she’s not into the idea. Location shouldn’t help or hurt your overall game.

Coffee dates are all right as long as you both arrive seperately and you avoid being needy. If you have the game to exercise real confidence with self-control for a small amount of time it’s a plus and will lower the cost per notch considerably.

ive never heard of coffee dates. the first date i always suggest is GTown. Get a fifth of vodka, stop at Johnny Rockets for a large Diet Coke/Coke to go, drop off in the cut, mix your drinks walk around gtown , get to know you stuff while sipping on your beverage and by the end of the night we either are drinking some more and dancing it up and later making out. But coffee, how does that sound like a great plan? You’ll definitely know that the person has no interest, just bored. At that point some conversation should have occurred and you already know if its on its on; if a girl suggests a coffee date you know its no good, she’ll end up talking about her ex or someone else she is interested.

Yeah if you have sex on the first date you are a slut! Or that is at least what we will think, no matter Andre 3000 says. Now don’t get me wrong! We want it and will take it if you are giving it away,(there are very few freebies that I won’t take) but we will loose respect for you and all girls know tht already. So yeah, if you are going to do, own it. Fuck the fact that you are a slut!:lol:

1st anonymous– “Nothing wrong with casual sex but don?t confuse it with dating, which exists as a way to find a compatible mate.”

Amen! Some of us actually WANT a connection. Men bash women who want to be like the Sex and the City girls, but then expect to get laid on the 1st date? Hm. Something isn’t clicking here.

If you want sex, fine, put it out there…just don’t expect a lot of quality girls to line up. I’m just saying.

Metro Section: Falling Apart…

Change everything: “Rock and Roll Hotel is currently hiring potential security and door staff. If you think you’ve got what it takes to be apart of professional team in fast environment, please email.” [R&R] Six murders over the …

I wish I would have had this information two years ago. April ’05, & into May & June, would have gone a lot differently (& more happily) were I to have had it.

That said, Eau Claire girls have it in for me.

Coffee dates are lame. If anything, you are just going to get jacked up on caffeine and spill shit on your date. And if I dont make out with you on the first date I am not going to see you again. Just FYI

I LOVE your logic. If a woman is unwilling to bend to our foced-sex agenda, then who needs her – she is an enemy of the state and should be placed within the re-education camps for women who, damn it, insist on making decisions for themselves.

Repeat after me – every second spend talking is time NOT making out, NOT having sex, and DEFINITELY NOT having her make you a sandwich.

Relationships founded on mutual interests, shared political ideologies and propensity to see live bands at clubs are DOOMED TO FAIL.

If you get some on the first date, IT DOESN”T MATTER what her personality is like – especially if she pays for all your cocaine.

I think you want a whore, not a girlfriend. Sad, one dimensional prick that you are.

“Nothing wrong with casual sex but don?t confuse it with dating, which exists as a way to find a compatible mate.”

who said casual sex can’t exist as a way to find a compatible mate? in fact, early sex is often a better way to gauge longterm compatibility. when are you gonna learn more about the woman you are with — when you’re getting to know her over a hazelnut latte or when she’s in your arms gazing into your eyes and bathed in afterglow?

A disgraceful, uninteresting post–one of the worst this blog has seen.

What the hell is a coffee date? If you’re past the let’s-have-mom-drop-us-off-at-the-movies age and there’s not booze around, you’re wasting your time. No, I’m not suggesting it’s a requirement to get the girl trashed and paw at her. The requirement is that -I- get trashed. Otherwise, I might as well be picking up girls in the produce isle. At least I’d get my fridge restocked.

And I’m with Roissy – casual sex is the fastest and best way to get to know someone, hands down. All my good girl friends started out as one-night bangs. What the hell does a coffee date tell you? They like creamer? They Texas side-sip? Who the fuck cares?

Oh, and Pagan, since your site is an ‘alter ego’ I haven’t a clue how old you are or whatever. But I was just kidding around. Don’t get offended, doll.

I’m sorry…but it just seems to me that after the buzz wears off, casual sex only proves how incompatible two people are in their sober states.

But people’s priorities are different I guess…some men want sex without consequences, and some women want to devalue sex because they have low self-esteem.

Roissy, how many meaningful relationships have honestly grown out of casual sex in your experience? Do you honestly respect a girl who gives it up on the first date? Or do you naturally assume that if you’re getting laid without a lot of effort or investment, that she’s probably gotten more use than the neighborhood bicycle?

Next time you’re at a one-night stand’s apartment, check out the medicine cabinet. I’m sure it will be a total aphrodisiac to see your date’s refill bottle for her prescription of valtrex.

A disgraceful, uninteresting post?one of the worst this blog has seen
***************************************************

No! Just on Fridays when Chaco post. Thats the worst post. This week should be about his girl, relationship, sex or some trivial insignificant observation. Watch, I’ll put 500 down now!!

i stand in awe of your wisdom … you are truly an innovator.

Wow. I really pity any woman who has the serious misfortune to find herself on a date of any sort with you, Roosh. Though I suppose it is natural that you wouldn’t like coffee dates — jerks like you are the reason coffee dates were invented. After all, women want to be able to weed out the assholes who are only looking to get laid. Guys who *only* want to go out for beverages with alcohol in them are either looking to get the woman drunk to lower her inhibitions (increasing their odds of scoring) or are alcoholics, or maybe both. Pathetic.

“She gets to practice dating and feeling wanted on your clock.”

Truer words were never written. There’s nothing morally superior about prefering emotional attention to sexual attention.

Coffee dates are as gay as they come. Any girl that doesn’t want to meet up for a drink after work is either up-tight or a douche.

Keep it simple. “Hey lets grab a drink after work.?”

Fuck coffee. What the hell is coffee? Talk about an hour of misery.

How about a Busch Light, some darts and a Nascar Race.

Now that is a good time.

i don’t drink coffee.

mandy:
“Roissy, how many meaningful relationships have honestly grown out of casual sex in your experience?”

define casual. sex on the first date after a wild night drinking, dancing, groping, and tumbling in the grass around the reflecting pool? that relationship lasted two years and was one of my most fondly remembered. or do you mean occasional sex with a fuckbuddy? ONSs? pulling a girl with the intention of having a one night stand with her has sometimes led to much more.

one thing that’s missing in this false dichotomy of slut v. meaningful waiting period is that personality appraisal happens quicker than most people wish to believe. that is, the “getting to know her” part is not mutually incompatible with the “getting to fuck her right away” part.

“Do you honestly respect a girl who gives it up on the first date?”

sometimes, moreso.

keep in mind that the “slut” term is more often used as a weapon by women against other women. loose women make it harder for marriage-minded women to use sex as a bargaining chip. sluts help break the traditional sex-for-commitment monopoly. while men are genetically-programmed and socially-reinforced to shy away from long-term expensive commitments with girls who act slutty, they certainly won’t degrade them or behave in a manner that would provide an incentive for these vibrant women to strap on the chastity belt.

“Or do you naturally assume that if you?re getting laid without a lot of effort or investment, that she?s probably gotten more use than the neighborhood bicycle?”

redirect to: alt.support.slut-acceptance

the better my game gets, the less likely i am inclined to assume that a girl i bed quickly is a natural born slut.

“Next time you?re at a one-night stand?s apartment, check out the medicine cabinet. I?m sure it will be a total aphrodisiac to see your date?s refill bottle for her prescription of valtrex.”

you’re mistake is in assuming that all women who give it up fast are without standards.

All the real players I know swear by coffee dates. Maybe your standards are low? This post doesn’t vibe with reality at all.

coffee dates aren’t a bad idea if you’re unsure of the guy.

besides, the guy i’m dating now, our first date was a coffee date, and after he walked me home i invited him up and we made out for hours. so if you’re good it doesn’t matter what the first date is.

Roissy:

Okay, casual sex may work for you. But I think that you overestimate the general population. Most people aren’t looking for a relationship when they have casual sex…they’re just looking for no-strings-attached f***ing. Like I said, to each his own, but I imagine it’s rare for a serious relationship to grow from a night of casual sex.

I imagine the sex must have been amazing for you to continue to see the same person. But in my opinion, you can always teach your partner what turns you on…sex can improve, even if you were both awkward in the very beginning. But a bad personality is something you just can’t change.

mandy, the average guy who is deliberately seeking a one night stand will not normally game a very attractive girl (relative to his sexual market value). he will go for easier prey because he knows from experience that those girls who are most attractive to him will be less likely to put out right away.

but here’s a fact: most guys are not in the market for ONSs. they want to meet their ideal woman and enjoy more than just one sexual encounter with her. when you hear of NSA sex it is often just a case of the guy deciding ex post facto that the girl is not attractive enough for him to continue seeing her. imagine a sliding scale of attractiveness (for men, this is almost entirely physical at first) with a lower and upper bound, beyond which points the target is either too ugly to notice or too hot to even contemplate.

barely attractive enough to induce hard-on: ONS
attractive enough to induce hard-on more than twice a week: fuckbuddy
attractive enough to induce hard-on more than twice a night: LTR
attractive enough to induce consecutive throbbing hard-ons without a refractory period: exclusive LTR

so it is not the casual sex, per se, that inhibits the transition to something more serious, but the attractiveness of the partner which puts the brakes on deeper commitment. with an ideal partner, first date sex is really just an affirmation of how incredibly attractive each finds the other. with a less than ideal partner, first date sex is what you think it is — casual.

“I imagine the sex must have been amazing for you to continue to see the same person.”

everything was amazing about her. that is why i continued seeing her. and it didn’t take the requisite 3 dates for me to see what a great girl she was.

“But a bad personality is something you just can?t change.”

it’s difficult, but not impossible.

Why Men Shouldn?t Go On Coffee Dates…

One reason I hate MySpace is because it makes it too easy for a girl to get a maximum amount ……

I agree with you, but I often use coffee dates as a way for ME to screen women. I’ve found that it’s important to reframe the interaction and make women work for my attention.

If you set yourself up in the coffee date where she has to work for your attention, you can get some mileage from it. Then if you’ve clicked with the girl, you can move onto another venue like a bar and continue the conversation you’ve started at the coffee house.

I normally ask a girl out on a coffee date. Its a good way to get to know them, without them thinking that it will turn into something else. or you have other plans. and if they arn’t your style, then you can leave easily and end it early.
however, i’ve found the coffee dates ive been on (between 10-15), have ended up in the back of my car, or her car, or for a long walk down the st, or to the beach, or back to hers.. either way, most ended up with action that night, or action on the next date. I’m all for coffee dates.. relaxing, easy, and fun. it can last for 30mins or 4hrs.

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Coffee dates are the sting of death. Dessert is better.

Seduction Chronicles’s last blog post: Sinn (Seduction Masters Interview).

THE GUY OF THIS POST IS SOOO RIGHT. Ladies are BEYOND hypocritical. If you want sex/kiss/physical contact on the first date, it means you’re a perv, or you are moving too fast.
Yet if you don’t get it on the first date, THERE IS NO SECOND DATE. That’s just what it boils down to. You HAVE to try to initiate something. If you don’t, there’s nothing there aside from the witty conversation, drinks, and laughs.
Sorry ladies, I know you are super-wary of sounding like a slut, but why don’t you just admit it? Guys MUST make some kind of move on the first date. I’m not saying sex, but SOMETHING. Making out, drinking and cuddling, just to show there’s more than friends here – which is why you are out to begin with right?
The guy of this post is SO on point when he says girls who want to go to coffee shops just want to practice dating, and they have NO INTENTION of letting it get anywhere, probably the exact opposite.
Here’s something other tidbits:
if the girl doesn’t let her pick you up from her house w/o a extremely legit reason, don’t take her care out. Move on QUICK
If she suggest going out as a group of friends, don’t take her out.
If she’s got to be home in one hour or less, don’t take her out. In fact, stand her up.
THis is why i hate dating so much. It’s just girls’ taking out being played for sluts or short-term relationships on good guys. “Oh teehee we had this date but no sparks flew (gamespeak: I never was interested in the guy at all, but i like being taken out to validate my ego, so a coffee shop put the brakes on it real quick)! Wheee let’s go shopping.”

what a pig! sex is not everything you horny twat.

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I’ve had a couple of coffee dates that ended in sex. If I remember rightly these were with girls who didn’t really drink.

This is such a lame excuse for any type of constructive exchange between M & F. All you guys are trying to let your insecurities hang out for an honest (?) response from a female reader/player in an effort to sharpen your game. Whether you can score on a first date, if “coffee dates” are a waste of time, kissing on a first “date”, when is groping allowed and the ground rules… GUYS! have some confidence in yourself. If you wanna get laid, hang out at the bars and waste the evening sucking alcohol and trying to convince a cute female that she should join you as YOU lose your inhibitions. Once in your lair, and you’re buying the drinks, inhibitions loosen and now we’re talking paydirt.
In my experience, the most rewarding time spent with women started out similar to the coffee date. I sit with a cutie, make NO advances, although I can’t take my eyes off her outrageous chest, which she dresses to accentuate with her sheer blouse and lace bra underneath which has me drooling but…we have small talk and I try to make her feel comfortable as we exchange ideas and she is champing at the bit cuz she wants it probably as bad as I do…why else would she wear that outfit? She’s gonna have a few silent moments where she’s gonna try to seem interested but is wondering what you’re packin’ and your attentiveness to her, has her guessing when you’re gonna pounce on her. Guys, stay in charge and she will make the suggestion to hit a bar where both of you can lose your inhibitions, or go back to her place or yours where you can both lose your inhibitions, but this is done with a fairly sober mindset so nobody is taking advantage of someone who doesn’t have command of all their faculties, should things get a little out of hand. Don’t be thinking with the wrong head!! See what makes this cutie tick and you’ll probably find out where she draws the line to your anticipated strategies to get yours. If she does it for you, and she takes time to sit and talk witih you, give her some breathing room and she will open up and let you know just what she is looking for and how you can tap into her charms. The one thing that will impress her is the fact that you aren’t coming across as a rabid animal waiting to pounce, b/c you are more interested in what she has to say, unlike every other guy who tries to play her into bed which she looks at every guy with that attitude, you break that mold and that’s the combination that opens the door to her charms. Patience…get to know her… for your own sake.

Open your horizons! Women should also not go on coffee shop dates. Guys who invite women to a first date on a coffee shop are saying “I am cheap and not one bit creative” or “I am so very insecure I can’t pull this thing off, better not bother trying.”