Why Men Shouldn’t Go On Coffee Dates

One reason I hate MySpace is because it makes it too easy for a girl to get a maximum amount of attention while putting in no effort. The distance between herself and you, a potential suitor, is so great that screening you out is her default move. One reason I don’t get email addresses is because it’s too easy for the girl to reply when she feels like it. She receives attention from guys and takes her time writing back even if she checks her email every 10 minutes (I guarantee you she does). One reason I don’t like coffee dates is because she doesn’t come to the date ready to perform or please. Instead, she wants to relax and let you make her feel warm and fuzzy inside over a non-alcoholic beverage.

A female blogger writes:

I LOVE coffee dates. They are totally casual and can be either long or short, depending on your shatter mode.

Exactly. Let me ask you this: have you ever first made out with someone on a coffee date? You haven’t — in fact, no one has. I don’t even see lovers making out in coffee shops. It just does not happen. When a girl wants to go on a coffee date, she is basically saying either she is not trying to hook up with you or does not want you to escalate your game. Safe and comfortable for her means late night masturbation for you. She gets to practice dating and feeling wanted on your clock.

If you don’t make out with a girl when you first meet her, you failed. If you don’t make out with her by the first date, you are a complete sucker. What are you waiting for? Be a man, get her in a bar, make her laugh over a couple drinks, and step up. If you are under 21, get a smoothie, go for a walk, sit on a bench in front of some pond with ducks, put your arm around her, and make it happen. If you are not making out with girls by the first date, you need to seriously work on your game. It doesn’t matter how old you are. If you think making out with girls by the first date is “too fast,” then you are a hopeless beta who probably doesn’t go on dates anyway.

Read Next: 7 Things You Can Do To Improve Your Game Right Now

Do You Want To Read More Articles Like This?

Join 30,000 other subscribers to my free email newsletter and learn how to meet women. Articles include: 7 Tips For First Dates That Lead To Sex, How To Tease A Girl, How To Handle Flakey Girls, The Reason She Isn't Hitting You Back, and a whole lot more. Enter your first name and email below...

I guarantee 100% privacy. Your information will not be shared.

Related Posts For You

  • however comma

    For a second there, I thought I was reading the script from a “Ladies Man” skit on SNL. There were some good lines in there.

  • i beg to differ

    Although I agree that it is quite unlikely, I once went on a coffee date that turned into an all night/next day affair and my friends were 10 minutes off from calling 911 because I had gone missing. It can happen but for all you boys/men out there, you are definitely guaranteed something when alcohol is introduced to the equation…but if you can make out with someone sans alcohol you are every girl’s dream…or something close to that.

  • http://www.timetoupgrade.blogspot.com mm

    Bar dates are just too easy. I prefer coffee dates. You get to know each other a lot better and you can see if there is any true chemistry there. I never kiss on the first date and I tend to get a bit weirded out when a guy tries to make out with me so quickly. If I end up making out with a guy on the first date, I usually never want to see him again. But yeah, give anyone a few drinks and they’re bond to have false chemistry and mess around.

  • Anonymous

    This is good information. I will always suggest coffee dates now, to screen guys who don’t have any interest in actually getting to know me. I mean, why bother with the pretext of the “date” at all if all you want is sex? Nothing wrong with casual sex but don’t confuse it with dating, which exists as a way to find a compatible mate.

  • http://www.suburbanitedc.blogspot.com Genevieve

    Coffee dates are for if you want someone to take you seriously/ want to take them seriously.
    If you’re looking for a hookup right off the bat then yeah, bar dates are better.
    I think kissing on the first date is as far as it should go. Maybe outside the clothes groping. If there’s sex or under the clothes action going on, chances are you found yourself a grade- A slut with no self- worth. However, sex after the 2nd date is perfectly permissable.

  • Roissy

    generally true, but extended makeouts on the first date that don’t reach closure with sex should be avoided. it’s often better to pull back a little in the beginning once you have made your intentions known and there is no doubt in her mind why you are there. more than 5 continuous minutes of frenching and you run the risk of having the girl think you are starved for the physical pleasure of makeouts and have no self-control when presented with a makeout opportunity. it’s not unknown for a guy to wonder why a girl flakes after she was “all over him”.

  • Mike

    “If there?s sex or under the clothes action going on, chances are you found yourself a grade- A slut with no self- worth.”

    Harsh generalization. I think most of us have been in situations where everything just lined up perfectly on the first go round and both parties got caught up in the flow. That doesn’t make the women involved sluts, it just means, as Andre 3000 so astutely pointed out, that “she just knows what she wants outta life.” I respect the girl who goes for what she wants (and is selective about it) much more than the one who holds back simply on the basis of some irrational fear that some generalized “other” will think she’s a slut.

  • DCVita

    I guess we’ll never go on that coffee date then ;)

  • http://arjewtino.blogspot.com Arjewtino

    The disparity between your male and female commenters in their opinions on coffee dates stems from the fact that men see coffee dates as passionless and women see them as good “getting to know you” time. I’m all for getting to know a girl I just met, but passion is equally, if not more, important, and you’re usually not going to find that over a cafe latte.

  • Anon

    If I end up making out with a guy on the first date, I usually never want to see him again.

    ^ What? Are you scared of physical intimacy and penises?

    Coffee dates are fine as long as they don’t stop at coffee.

  • han

    coffee date : guys :: “sit in my living room and watch the basketball game” date : girls

  • http://thongspeed.blogspot.com Pagan Marbury

    You definitely need alcohol on a first date. Coffee sucks.

  • Crooks and Bibles

    I hate Coffee dates because women breath stink from the Coffee. Hey DCB just wanted to give you the heads up that I made a guest appearance on Dateline’s “To catch a predator” with Stone Phillips/Steve Hansen. My episode should be on around late April early May from what the producers told me. Oh, that picture really isn’t my cock and I didn’t ask that 13 year old about blow jobs. The bitch set me up.

  • http://thongspeed.blogspot.com Pagan Marbury

    “it just means, as Andre 3000 so astutely pointed out, that ?she just knows what she wants outta life.? I respect the girl who goes for what she wants (and is selective about it) much more than the one who holds back simply on the basis of some irrational fear that some generalized ?other? will think she?s a slut.”

    Mike– Nicely put. That’s my philosophy- do what you want, and own it, judgements be damned.

  • Jamie

    so what activities will you use to replace coffee dates in order to maintain your $50 cost per notch threshold for 2007?

  • http://lmntalattraction.blogspot.com LMNt

    Amen. Coffee dates are for suckers.

  • http://gatsbysamericangreen.blogspot.com Jay Gatsby

    You shouldn’t be out on a “date” with a woman if all you’re looking for is sex. Regardless, going for coffee as a set-up to the main event shouldn’t matter. If you need her to get drunk in order for her to swallow your game (or something else), then it’s your game that needs work. Don’t blame your shitty game on coffee bars.

  • The Dude

    I totally agree with Gatsby. I like the coffee date as a set up. I have taken a couple girls out as a precusor to the “real date”, but bring myself up to second date status while saving time and money on a first date.

  • http://jozaff.blogspot.com Jo

    I’ve gone on a coffee date that became a bar date once I realized the guy was pretty cool. But that’s not always an option and I do agree that coffee dates are a cop out.

    Being a woman, of course I must argue against your point that a woman must put out… Why should she put out if you’re just going to call her a slut for putting out the next day? Regardless of what each person’s expectations are, doesn’t waiting one or two more dates make the sex even better?

  • http://www.tctheterrible.com TC the Terrible

    I agree with Jay G. It doesn’t matter where the date starts, if your game is strong enough the date will end up where you want it. I’ve gotten laid on bar dates/hook ups and I’ve gotten laid at the church single group’s bowling night. All that matters is that you find a girl that you want to bang that is open to the idea and that you don’t screw it up while trying to close the deal. No man is going to talk an ice princess into spreading her legs if she’s not into the idea. Location shouldn’t help or hurt your overall game.

  • Anonymous

    Coffee dates are all right as long as you both arrive seperately and you avoid being needy. If you have the game to exercise real confidence with self-control for a small amount of time it’s a plus and will lower the cost per notch considerably.

  • Aja

    ive never heard of coffee dates. the first date i always suggest is GTown. Get a fifth of vodka, stop at Johnny Rockets for a large Diet Coke/Coke to go, drop off in the cut, mix your drinks walk around gtown , get to know you stuff while sipping on your beverage and by the end of the night we either are drinking some more and dancing it up and later making out. But coffee, how does that sound like a great plan? You’ll definitely know that the person has no interest, just bored. At that point some conversation should have occurred and you already know if its on its on; if a girl suggests a coffee date you know its no good, she’ll end up talking about her ex or someone else she is interested.

  • BEAVE

    Yeah if you have sex on the first date you are a slut! Or that is at least what we will think, no matter Andre 3000 says. Now don’t get me wrong! We want it and will take it if you are giving it away,(there are very few freebies that I won’t take) but we will loose respect for you and all girls know tht already. So yeah, if you are going to do, own it. Fuck the fact that you are a slut!:lol:

  • Mandy

    1st anonymous– “Nothing wrong with casual sex but don?t confuse it with dating, which exists as a way to find a compatible mate.”

    Amen! Some of us actually WANT a connection. Men bash women who want to be like the Sex and the City girls, but then expect to get laid on the 1st date? Hm. Something isn’t clicking here.

    If you want sex, fine, put it out there…just don’t expect a lot of quality girls to line up. I’m just saying.

  • Pingback: Wonkette

  • http://imclearlynotalesbiandespitemythumbring.wordpress.com Nicolae Dica

    I wish I would have had this information two years ago. April ’05, & into May & June, would have gone a lot differently (& more happily) were I to have had it.

    That said, Eau Claire girls have it in for me.

  • http://theworldsapart.blogspot.com Rachael

    Coffee dates are lame. If anything, you are just going to get jacked up on caffeine and spill shit on your date. And if I dont make out with you on the first date I am not going to see you again. Just FYI

  • http://ryan-adams.com Tony Danza

    I LOVE your logic. If a woman is unwilling to bend to our foced-sex agenda, then who needs her – she is an enemy of the state and should be placed within the re-education camps for women who, damn it, insist on making decisions for themselves.

    Repeat after me – every second spend talking is time NOT making out, NOT having sex, and DEFINITELY NOT having her make you a sandwich.

    Relationships founded on mutual interests, shared political ideologies and propensity to see live bands at clubs are DOOMED TO FAIL.

    If you get some on the first date, IT DOESN”T MATTER what her personality is like – especially if she pays for all your cocaine.

  • Anonymous

    I think you want a whore, not a girlfriend. Sad, one dimensional prick that you are.

  • Roissy

    “Nothing wrong with casual sex but don?t confuse it with dating, which exists as a way to find a compatible mate.”

    who said casual sex can’t exist as a way to find a compatible mate? in fact, early sex is often a better way to gauge longterm compatibility. when are you gonna learn more about the woman you are with — when you’re getting to know her over a hazelnut latte or when she’s in your arms gazing into your eyes and bathed in afterglow?

  • JBFC

    A disgraceful, uninteresting post–one of the worst this blog has seen.

  • Jewcano

    What the hell is a coffee date? If you’re past the let’s-have-mom-drop-us-off-at-the-movies age and there’s not booze around, you’re wasting your time. No, I’m not suggesting it’s a requirement to get the girl trashed and paw at her. The requirement is that -I- get trashed. Otherwise, I might as well be picking up girls in the produce isle. At least I’d get my fridge restocked.

    And I’m with Roissy – casual sex is the fastest and best way to get to know someone, hands down. All my good girl friends started out as one-night bangs. What the hell does a coffee date tell you? They like creamer? They Texas side-sip? Who the fuck cares?

    Oh, and Pagan, since your site is an ‘alter ego’ I haven’t a clue how old you are or whatever. But I was just kidding around. Don’t get offended, doll.

  • Mandy

    I’m sorry…but it just seems to me that after the buzz wears off, casual sex only proves how incompatible two people are in their sober states.

    But people’s priorities are different I guess…some men want sex without consequences, and some women want to devalue sex because they have low self-esteem.

    Roissy, how many meaningful relationships have honestly grown out of casual sex in your experience? Do you honestly respect a girl who gives it up on the first date? Or do you naturally assume that if you’re getting laid without a lot of effort or investment, that she’s probably gotten more use than the neighborhood bicycle?

    Next time you’re at a one-night stand’s apartment, check out the medicine cabinet. I’m sure it will be a total aphrodisiac to see your date’s refill bottle for her prescription of valtrex.

  • I live in a trash can

    A disgraceful, uninteresting post?one of the worst this blog has seen
    ***************************************************

    No! Just on Fridays when Chaco post. Thats the worst post. This week should be about his girl, relationship, sex or some trivial insignificant observation. Watch, I’ll put 500 down now!!

  • capitol hillbilly

    i stand in awe of your wisdom … you are truly an innovator.

  • Anonymous

    Wow. I really pity any woman who has the serious misfortune to find herself on a date of any sort with you, Roosh. Though I suppose it is natural that you wouldn’t like coffee dates — jerks like you are the reason coffee dates were invented. After all, women want to be able to weed out the assholes who are only looking to get laid. Guys who *only* want to go out for beverages with alcohol in them are either looking to get the woman drunk to lower her inhibitions (increasing their odds of scoring) or are alcoholics, or maybe both. Pathetic.

  • Jonathan

    “She gets to practice dating and feeling wanted on your clock.”

    Truer words were never written. There’s nothing morally superior about prefering emotional attention to sexual attention.

  • Tampa

    Coffee dates are as gay as they come. Any girl that doesn’t want to meet up for a drink after work is either up-tight or a douche.

    Keep it simple. “Hey lets grab a drink after work.?”

    Fuck coffee. What the hell is coffee? Talk about an hour of misery.

    How about a Busch Light, some darts and a Nascar Race.

    Now that is a good time.

  • jay k.

    i don’t drink coffee.

  • Roissy

    mandy:
    “Roissy, how many meaningful relationships have honestly grown out of casual sex in your experience?”

    define casual. sex on the first date after a wild night drinking, dancing, groping, and tumbling in the grass around the reflecting pool? that relationship lasted two years and was one of my most fondly remembered. or do you mean occasional sex with a fuckbuddy? ONSs? pulling a girl with the intention of having a one night stand with her has sometimes led to much more.

    one thing that’s missing in this false dichotomy of slut v. meaningful waiting period is that personality appraisal happens quicker than most people wish to believe. that is, the “getting to know her” part is not mutually incompatible with the “getting to fuck her right away” part.

    “Do you honestly respect a girl who gives it up on the first date?”

    sometimes, moreso.

    keep in mind that the “slut” term is more often used as a weapon by women against other women. loose women make it harder for marriage-minded women to use sex as a bargaining chip. sluts help break the traditional sex-for-commitment monopoly. while men are genetically-programmed and socially-reinforced to shy away from long-term expensive commitments with girls who act slutty, they certainly won’t degrade them or behave in a manner that would provide an incentive for these vibrant women to strap on the chastity belt.

    “Or do you naturally assume that if you?re getting laid without a lot of effort or investment, that she?s probably gotten more use than the neighborhood bicycle?”

    redirect to: alt.support.slut-acceptance

    the better my game gets, the less likely i am inclined to assume that a girl i bed quickly is a natural born slut.

    “Next time you?re at a one-night stand?s apartment, check out the medicine cabinet. I?m sure it will be a total aphrodisiac to see your date?s refill bottle for her prescription of valtrex.”

    you’re mistake is in assuming that all women who give it up fast are without standards.

  • J

    All the real players I know swear by coffee dates. Maybe your standards are low? This post doesn’t vibe with reality at all.

  • Listed

    coffee dates aren’t a bad idea if you’re unsure of the guy.

    besides, the guy i’m dating now, our first date was a coffee date, and after he walked me home i invited him up and we made out for hours. so if you’re good it doesn’t matter what the first date is.

  • Mandy

    Roissy:

    Okay, casual sex may work for you. But I think that you overestimate the general population. Most people aren’t looking for a relationship when they have casual sex…they’re just looking for no-strings-attached f***ing. Like I said, to each his own, but I imagine it’s rare for a serious relationship to grow from a night of casual sex.

    I imagine the sex must have been amazing for you to continue to see the same person. But in my opinion, you can always teach your partner what turns you on…sex can improve, even if you were both awkward in the very beginning. But a bad personality is something you just can’t change.

  • Roissy

    mandy, the average guy who is deliberately seeking a one night stand will not normally game a very attractive girl (relative to his sexual market value). he will go for easier prey because he knows from experience that those girls who are most attractive to him will be less likely to put out right away.

    but here’s a fact: most guys are not in the market for ONSs. they want to meet their ideal woman and enjoy more than just one sexual encounter with her. when you hear of NSA sex it is often just a case of the guy deciding ex post facto that the girl is not attractive enough for him to continue seeing her. imagine a sliding scale of attractiveness (for men, this is almost entirely physical at first) with a lower and upper bound, beyond which points the target is either too ugly to notice or too hot to even contemplate.

    barely attractive enough to induce hard-on: ONS
    attractive enough to induce hard-on more than twice a week: fuckbuddy
    attractive enough to induce hard-on more than twice a night: LTR
    attractive enough to induce consecutive throbbing hard-ons without a refractory period: exclusive LTR

    so it is not the casual sex, per se, that inhibits the transition to something more serious, but the attractiveness of the partner which puts the brakes on deeper commitment. with an ideal partner, first date sex is really just an affirmation of how incredibly attractive each finds the other. with a less than ideal partner, first date sex is what you think it is — casual.

    “I imagine the sex must have been amazing for you to continue to see the same person.”

    everything was amazing about her. that is why i continued seeing her. and it didn’t take the requisite 3 dates for me to see what a great girl she was.

    “But a bad personality is something you just can?t change.”

    it’s difficult, but not impossible.

  • Pingback: The Saloon dot net

  • ChickMagnet101

    I agree with you, but I often use coffee dates as a way for ME to screen women. I’ve found that it’s important to reframe the interaction and make women work for my attention.

    If you set yourself up in the coffee date where she has to work for your attention, you can get some mileage from it. Then if you’ve clicked with the girl, you can move onto another venue like a bar and continue the conversation you’ve started at the coffee house.

  • http://www.myspace.com/yeders Yeders

    I normally ask a girl out on a coffee date. Its a good way to get to know them, without them thinking that it will turn into something else. or you have other plans. and if they arn’t your style, then you can leave easily and end it early.
    however, i’ve found the coffee dates ive been on (between 10-15), have ended up in the back of my car, or her car, or for a long walk down the st, or to the beach, or back to hers.. either way, most ended up with action that night, or action on the next date. I’m all for coffee dates.. relaxing, easy, and fun. it can last for 30mins or 4hrs.

  • Pingback: I Left My Wallet At Home » Roosh V

  • http://www.seduction-chronicles.net Seduction Chronicles

    Coffee dates are the sting of death. Dessert is better.

    Seduction Chronicles’s last blog post: Sinn (Seduction Masters Interview).

  • Johnnydoe

    THE GUY OF THIS POST IS SOOO RIGHT. Ladies are BEYOND hypocritical. If you want sex/kiss/physical contact on the first date, it means you’re a perv, or you are moving too fast.
    Yet if you don’t get it on the first date, THERE IS NO SECOND DATE. That’s just what it boils down to. You HAVE to try to initiate something. If you don’t, there’s nothing there aside from the witty conversation, drinks, and laughs.
    Sorry ladies, I know you are super-wary of sounding like a slut, but why don’t you just admit it? Guys MUST make some kind of move on the first date. I’m not saying sex, but SOMETHING. Making out, drinking and cuddling, just to show there’s more than friends here – which is why you are out to begin with right?
    The guy of this post is SO on point when he says girls who want to go to coffee shops just want to practice dating, and they have NO INTENTION of letting it get anywhere, probably the exact opposite.
    Here’s something other tidbits:
    if the girl doesn’t let her pick you up from her house w/o a extremely legit reason, don’t take her care out. Move on QUICK
    If she suggest going out as a group of friends, don’t take her out.
    If she’s got to be home in one hour or less, don’t take her out. In fact, stand her up.
    THis is why i hate dating so much. It’s just girls’ taking out being played for sluts or short-term relationships on good guys. “Oh teehee we had this date but no sparks flew (gamespeak: I never was interested in the guy at all, but i like being taken out to validate my ego, so a coffee shop put the brakes on it real quick)! Wheee let’s go shopping.”

  • Anonymous

    what a pig! sex is not everything you horny twat.

  • Pingback: Getting Girl Tips out of Boy Game: cheating « LovelySexyBeauty: adventures in love, enchantment, & beauty

  • Supernaut

    I’ve had a couple of coffee dates that ended in sex. If I remember rightly these were with girls who didn’t really drink.

  • TVBobi

    This is such a lame excuse for any type of constructive exchange between M & F. All you guys are trying to let your insecurities hang out for an honest (?) response from a female reader/player in an effort to sharpen your game. Whether you can score on a first date, if “coffee dates” are a waste of time, kissing on a first “date”, when is groping allowed and the ground rules… GUYS! have some confidence in yourself. If you wanna get laid, hang out at the bars and waste the evening sucking alcohol and trying to convince a cute female that she should join you as YOU lose your inhibitions. Once in your lair, and you’re buying the drinks, inhibitions loosen and now we’re talking paydirt.
    In my experience, the most rewarding time spent with women started out similar to the coffee date. I sit with a cutie, make NO advances, although I can’t take my eyes off her outrageous chest, which she dresses to accentuate with her sheer blouse and lace bra underneath which has me drooling but…we have small talk and I try to make her feel comfortable as we exchange ideas and she is champing at the bit cuz she wants it probably as bad as I do…why else would she wear that outfit? She’s gonna have a few silent moments where she’s gonna try to seem interested but is wondering what you’re packin’ and your attentiveness to her, has her guessing when you’re gonna pounce on her. Guys, stay in charge and she will make the suggestion to hit a bar where both of you can lose your inhibitions, or go back to her place or yours where you can both lose your inhibitions, but this is done with a fairly sober mindset so nobody is taking advantage of someone who doesn’t have command of all their faculties, should things get a little out of hand. Don’t be thinking with the wrong head!! See what makes this cutie tick and you’ll probably find out where she draws the line to your anticipated strategies to get yours. If she does it for you, and she takes time to sit and talk witih you, give her some breathing room and she will open up and let you know just what she is looking for and how you can tap into her charms. The one thing that will impress her is the fact that you aren’t coming across as a rabid animal waiting to pounce, b/c you are more interested in what she has to say, unlike every other guy who tries to play her into bed which she looks at every guy with that attitude, you break that mold and that’s the combination that opens the door to her charms. Patience…get to know her… for your own sake.

  • Anonymous

    Open your horizons! Women should also not go on coffee shop dates. Guys who invite women to a first date on a coffee shop are saying “I am cheap and not one bit creative” or “I am so very insecure I can’t pull this thing off, better not bother trying.”

  • Anonymous

    listen guys: from a woman’s perspective YOU’VE GOT IT ALL WRONG!!

    This post makes me sick. Can’t you see what ignorant idiots you are? I genuinely feel sorry for any women that will date you.

  • Sonia

    WOW!!!! A blog full of immature jerks who only think with their lower head! What an entertainment that was! LMAO! It’s also funny how a few think they can have “long-term” relationships and also try to justify this with lame and unfounded pseudo-arguments! LOL!

    One thing I gotta say: THANK GOD FOR COFFEE DATES!!! The best filtering process you can ever have to sort the good guys from the bad ones!

    Guys if you want one night stands you should go to night clubs and leave the rest of the mature population alone. I dream of the day where space travel is going to be trivial so they can whisk you all (loose men and women) to a far-away planet where you can immerse yourselves in whatever debauchery and promiscuous activities you want. The slogan for these transfer trips would be simple: “Save our Planet, Earth”.

  • easier than that

    Short translation is dont do coffee dates, go to a bar, make a move the first time and move on if its not on.

    Whats with all that girly analysis about why she ticks the way she does and why that makes the do/dont stuff what it is.

  • Rebound

    I’m not understanding the argument against the coffee date, it all comes down to your frame — She’s working for YOUR attention, and that doesn’t matter if its at a bar or a coffee shop. In fact, the coffee shop is far less threatening which can go for extra mileage.

    If you’re a mook and can’t hold down a conversation, by all means, get her drunk. If you’re confident and articulate I’d vote for the coffee shop nine times out of ten. You might not be able to make out on the premises, but it’s an excellent precursor for whatever you have planned next (you DO have a goal in mind, don’t you?)

  • Pingback: Best…Date… Ever. « lifeinlonglegs

  • Anonymous

    i also disagree, i went into one coffee date with this mentality and ended up staying over at her house and not getting much sleep lol. so coffee dates can end as well as anyother

  • Roxanne

    RE: JohnnyDoe’s post

    1) “if the girl doesn’t let her pick you up from her house w/o a extremely legit reason, don’t take her care out. Move on QUICK”

    I think you’re reading that one wrong – if I woman doesn’t know the guy well (first date with no prior experience with each other), why would she let him know where she lives? What if he turns out to be some sort of psycho?

    2.) “If she suggests going out as a group of friends, don’t take her out.”

    See answer to #1 – if a girl is seeing a guy she doesn’t know well yet, there is safety in numbers.

    3.) “If she’s got to be home in one hour or less, don’t take her out. In fact, stand her up.”

    I may not agree with standing her up, but I agree if she can’t make time for the date, its not worth the time and you should probably decline the date – you can’t figure out much about a person in an hour.

  • Pingback: “Playing Video Games” to “Playing Women” – Part 2 | Gmac's Black Book

  • http://two.cedonulli.com Jake

    Starbucks is my poker face.

    Me: “Time for you to get some me-time.”

    Her: “Where?”

    Me: “Starbucks in Gateway at 7PM.”

    Her: “Ok.”

    Really, there is a cheap bar just around the corner. But why let the enemy see your battle field? Eh, eh? Right. She shows up thinking coffee, and gets slain. Roosh IS a genius, but let’s not hate on thinking a few moves ahead – coffee shop is a great pawn.

    And then dress right: http://two.cedonulli.com/2011/07/how-to-dress-for-a-date/

  • Mysogony

    Although it is more expensive, I think taking a girl out to dinner is the best approach at really getting to know them and getting a feel for the type of woman you are dealing with.

    Some girls view the bar as cheesy, and cheap. We all know how american woman value money and status. Even some foreigners feel this way.

    I once met this Russian girl in NYC who was sitting all by herself in the bar. She looked decent (solid 7) and alone so i decided to talk to her. It turns out she had a great personality and she actually was waiting for her best friend to take her home. She was really attracted to me. She even said she loved my dark mahagony skin tone.

    Naturally because she was at my favorite bar i asked her to come back. She declined.

    She wanted me to show her more of NYC as this was her first year living here and the adjustment to english and life was challenging. I did show her around and we had fun. Only reason why we didnt fuck was because of my guilt (already in a relationship with another) and i didnt want to upset such a nice girl. So I just faded out of the picture.

    My point is many women especialy foreign ones do not understand or like the bar scene. Women are more paticular and bar is scary place for a lot of women. Me being the happy drunk I am didn’t know that back then

  • Anonymous

    Coffee dates remind me of Facebook–it starts out with honest intent but ends up being misused, cliche and a cheap placeholder for the real thing. Those with commitment issues or short attention spans like coffee dates; but people that are adults would see them as very lazy and uninspiring date spots. It takes no critical thought or guts or anything to think up coffee. Hell, McDonald’s would be a better option–at least you’re conveying that you’re original, have balls, a sense of humor..

  • gweetarden

    Wow this Roosh idiot has no idea wtf he’s talking about.

    Lol, “people who don’t kiss on the first date are hopeless losers”?

    What a retard. and people like him are writing dating books? nicee….

  • Pingback: Top 10 Online Dating Mistakes Made by Men | Gmac's Black Book

  • blocky

    In an ideal world, coffee would be a nice first meet.

    Unfortunately, it’s just too easy for women to abuse online dating and the coffee date to fill that void night in their weekly schedule.

  • Side

    Well in Greece the coffee thing is the casual and typical first date(s), but i do agree for that matter; it does slow things down. Besides you cannot be cool all the time for 2 hours as easily and hence bar dates are better in the sense that you can talk less and even dance and/or kink with her far more easily.

  • Pingback: The Meet and Greet | Meet Friends Again

  • Mitch

    ok here is the thing a date is a date ,you got your foot in the door don’t mess it up. and if you cant find common ground with out using alcohol or are very shallow good friggin luck. if from going where ever she wants you cant cope and try to get to a common intrest she is gonna tell you to move on. its about a girl being serious she wants standards and shes trying to see if you have them. plus she is trying to be safe a coffie shop is very public and yet private enough. its more about safety and security than anything. ive been to many coffee dates trust me.

  • Brody

    Girls everywhere and all you emasculated “men” who are trying so hard to be politically correct at the expense of your masculinity, listen up.

    Men and women are equals. This does not mean that they are equal in every single thing they do. For example, men are, on average, physically stronger than women. It is much easier for a semi attractive (even a 6/10) woman to go out and get laid. The same cannot be said about men. Men have to work at it, have some skill (game) and thereby get a woman to sleep with them. It is a LOT harder for an equally attractive man to get women than it is the other way around. This is one of reasons behind why we, as a society, naturally celebrate men who are successful in bedding multiple women; while at the same time shame women who bed multiple men.

    Let us briefly visit the topic of virginity from both perspectives. Virginity in a man is not a desirable state or label when it comes to an attribute that the opposite sex wants. This is because he has obviously not been preselected by other women. However, female virginity is not looked at negatively in the least by men. If she looks decent, no man cares if the girl is a virgin or not. In fact, a female virgin is often wanted more.

    Now don’t get me wrong, men LOVE sluts. We will never turn down an opportunity to sleep with a good looking slut. Partly because she’s good in bed, partly because it’s sex. But any decently intelligent, self-respecting man will know that it is a terrible idea to emotionally involve himself with(i.e. date) a slutty girl. That would be a very dumb move. Why would any man want to get emotionally involved with a girl who’s had 15+ sexual partners? We would just be setting ourselves up for failure. There are many nice worthy girls out there who don’t have daddy issues and haven’t slept with an entire fraternity house. But, by all means, fvck the brains out of sluts in the meanwhile.

    Most guys can detect when a girl is a slut by the first few dates and by what he hears about the girl from other people and from the girl herlself. We put this information together and figure out if she is dating material or not. If not, I like most guys, will still go in for the prize but have no intention of following through with dating the dirty little tart.

    To put it simply, a lock that can be opened by many keys is a useless lock and of little worth. But a key that can open many locks is a master key and is valuable.

  • Karl

    Hey ive read some on the forum here and i think some of u guys are just a-holes (im a guy to). Now why are you even trying to get laid on a first date, sure a kiss would be cool but never ever more then that. You date because your looking for that special girl with that perfect chemestry with you.

    Even saying that my opinion is till wrong, cuz every human have their own way of getting a girl. Sure if u want a slut then get a slut. But the main reason to dating is to find someone you want to spend your life with not just havin sex with.

    If a girl would ask you out on a coffee date and not a bar or something like that, its thier own way of saying “im looking for a mature guy that i can fall in love with”

    Roosh, i think you only got to the first date on these dating tips huh?

    I don’t know about guys here but when im on a date i want to find someone i care about not a sex toy. Relationships based on alcohol never tend to work in the long run :)

  • Anonymous

    You’re a Tool

  • Sarah

    So from an evolutionary standpoint, there are concrete advantages to men being promiscuous compared to women being promiscuous. This doesn’t mean that women have evolved to be strictly monogamous. Women have evolved to be somewhat promiscuous too, something men badly underestimate. However they haven’t evolved to be as rampantly promiscuous as men.

    Fourth, promiscuity poses more risk to women than to men. A woman has more to lose from choosing bad sex partners than a man does. She’s the one who gets stuck with going through a pregnancy and taking care of a baby alone if she chooses a deadbeat. For this reason, promiscuous women throughout history have historically been viewed as being a vastly more irresponsible risk takers than promiscuous men, who rightly or wrongly could always run away from the consequences of unwanted pregnancies easier than women could.

    These four reasons explain why the longstanding tradition came about of men being rewarded for multiple partners while women get socially punished for similar promiscuity. Of course all this is gradually changing, but we’re up against millenia of evolutionary and cultural conditioning here, so don’t expect any dramatic overnight reversals.

    Understand that I’m just explaining why the double standard came into existence and not condoning or condemning it. This is not an attempt to pass judgment or be self-righteous in any way. It’s just an explanation of why the two conditions are treated differently.

  • Sarah

    Women complain about how unfair it is that men are called studs when they sleep around, yet women get called sluts for the exact same behavior. It’s actually not a double standard though, because both scenarios are pretty different in terms of circumstances and consequences. I can think of at least four crucial differences:

    First, sleeping around is easier for women. Regardless of how you feel about promiscuity, we can all agree that a guy who manages to rack up a lot of sexual partners has to have some skills. It’s challenging for men to rack up partners, even for men with low standards. A man needs social intelligence, interpersonal skills, persistence, thick skin, and plain old dumb luck. For women, though, a vagina and a pulse is often enough. Whenever an accomplishment requires absolutely no challenge, no one respects it. It’s just viewed as a lack of self-discipline. People respect those who accomplish challenging feats, while they consider those who overindulge in easily obtained feats as weak, untrustworthy or flawed.

    Second, women have potential to do more harm by sleeping around than men do. Say a man sleeps around with a bunch of different women. He’s definitely doing harm to these women if he pretends to be monogamous while sleeping around. He may cause them emotional pain by his promiscuity. He may cause unwanted pregnancy. He may spread VD. When women sleep around, however, they can cause not only all these same ill effects but one additional crucial ill effect: the risk of unknown parentage.

    If one guy sleeps around with five women, each of whom is monogamous to him, and they all get pregnant, it’s a safe bet as to who the father is. If you reverse genders and have one woman who sleeps around with five men who are monogamous to her, and she gets pregnant, the father could be any of the five men. And if one of those men is tricked into raising a baby that isn’t his, he’s investing time, money, estate and property to provide for a child that isn’t carrying his DNA into the next generations, a costly mistake from an evolutionary standpoint.

    Our two basic primal drives are to survive and to reproduce, and promiscuous women traditionally make it hard for a man to know for sure whether he is truly reproducing or is secretly raising another man’s child. Men stand a lot more to lose from promiscuous women than the other way around. And it’s no picnic for the child to not know who his real father is either. And it’s a mess for the women carrying on the deception as well. Or just look at any random episode of the Maury show if you don’t believe me.

    Since the DNA test and the birth control pill didn’t exist until recently, there were no reliable ways to prevent pregnancy or prove parentage for most of human history. For this reason society developed a vested interest in preventing promiscuity among women, and society accomplished this by creating the slut stigma. And even though the creation of birth control and DNA tests have made this less of a risk than the past, longstanding traditions and customs are not easy for society to break so the slut stigma remains.

    Third, men have evolutionary reasons to be programmed to sleep around more. A lot of women roll their eyes when they hear that men are “hard-wired” to sleep around. But from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes total sense. If the two primal drives of humans are to survive and to reproduce, nothing leads to maximum reproduction like one man sleeping with multiple women. If one women sleeps with many men in a nine month period, she can only get pregnant just once. Nine months of rampant promiscuity would give the same result as nine months of highly sexed monogamy: one pregnancy. Now if one man sleeps with many women during a nine month period, you can get many pregnancies during that period. The more women he sleeps with, the more possible pregnancies.

    So from an evolutionary standpoint, there are concrete advantages to men being promiscuous compared to women being promiscuous. This doesn’t mean that women have evolved to be strictly monogamous. Women have evolved to be somewhat promiscuous too, something men badly underestimate. However they haven’t evolved to be as rampantly promiscuous as men.

    Fourth, promiscuity poses more risk to women than to men. A woman has more to lose from choosing bad sex partners than a man does. She’s the one who gets stuck with going through a pregnancy and taking care of a baby alone if she chooses a deadbeat. For this reason, promiscuous women throughout history have historically been viewed as being a vastly more irresponsible risk takers than promiscuous men, who rightly or wrongly could always run away from the consequences of unwanted pregnancies easier than women could.

    These four reasons explain why the longstanding tradition came about of men being rewarded for multiple partners while women get socially punished for similar promiscuity. Of course all this is gradually changing, but we’re up against millenia of evolutionary and cultural conditioning here, so don’t expect any dramatic overnight reversals.

    Understand that I’m just explaining why the double standard came into existence and not condoning or condemning it. This is not an attempt to pass judgment or be self-righteous in any way. It’s just an explanation of why the two conditions are treated differently.

  • Anonymous

    Actually, although the coffee date thing should be true 99.99999% of the time, I am proud to say I have made out on a first date in a coffee shop (a little sleazy I have to say, but never the less and accomplishment). :)

  • Riker

    If you don’t make out with a girl when you first meet her, you failed.

    Really? To me you sound like an 18 year old who knows jack shit about women.
    When you first meet a woman, you want to show youre different from other guys without trying to makeout with her on the first date.
    Horrible advice. Only someone who spews bullshit like this must be single.

  • Pingback: Dating Hits- Free Dates In Dallas

  • Pingback: Dating Hits- Dating Over 50 Relationship

  • Pingback: Dating Hits- Christian Senior Dating

  • WEDO

    Everything said in the article is true.

    But coffee dates are cheap for one and often easier to get than dates that take up your and her precious night time.

  • dave

    coffee dates suck b/c they aren’t fun ! If you don’t trust someone well enough to do something more fun with them; (heck even going on a walk is more fun than sitting and drinking coffee which I do all day), then you need to spend more time chatting on the phone, or texting or whatever. If you do something boring as sh*t on your 1st date, why bother doing anything at all.

  • Anon

    This is inaccurate. You can definitely go on coffee dates if you don’t drink or don’t want to drink. Just make sure escalation and isolation is factored in otherwise you’re wasting your time. Also best to do coffee dates after nightfall, day time is a bit tougher.

  • websert

    I don’t agree, and don’t need to be put on an email list for “lessons” on how to kiss on a first date. Kiss on a first date? Big deal. Why Is “making out” so important on a first date.
    Maybe it is, …for someone who is simply a horn-dog, trying to “sniff” his prey and “think” he may have a chance to “hump” his new prospect.

    A Coffee shop “date” isn’t even a date. It’s a safe place to meet someone new, and see where it might go from there. IT gives BOTH the man AND the woman a chance to “run the hell away” if either finds out the other is a nut-case and at the very least, walk away from someone you simply are not interested in, politely after spending a short while in “question / answer” mode.
    .
    I’ve never went on a first date expecting to make out, or do anything else for that matter. If that was what I want(ed), , I could/can go at the end of the night at a night club and simply pick out the most “likely” target.

    In short, if ALL you are looking for is to see how far you can get with someone new (especially at a coffee shop), you are sadly missing the real reward of getting to know someone, who could be a life partner, good friend, and if nothing else, someone, you spend an enjoyable hour with in life, …no harm done.
    At the risk of disagreeing with nearly the entire post above, an hour spent here and there is not a lot to invest toward what could be a long term relationship with someone you meet sipping coffee.

  • louie

    Look all I gotta say is. Go on a date anywhere, on mutual agreement. Be yourself, laugh, talk, be open minded and have fun. I’m a 19 year old dude, if I’m attracted to a girl ill know within 45 min by getting to know her somewhat, and viseversa. I’ve dated plenty girls and all have said they get “comfortable” with me super quick. That leads to either relationship or sex by being STRAIGHT UP! No bullshitting , no fronting, no acting nice or like a douche. Kissing? Yeah if she feels comfortable go for it, who cares?! Guys on this post are idiots thinking they have “game”, be lucky you even get dated!! Lol. I’m a carefree dude, a girl doesn’t like me? Move on, she does, congrats for me. Point is I have no “game” I just stay real and see where it goes, like the wind!

  • stellabystarlite

    Totally idiotic. Men value experience, not virginity these days. Anyone 20+ who says she’s a virgin has you duped. Your key analogy is vulgar.

  • Mike Gauvin

    In fact, it is entirely possible to make out with the girl after or during a coffee date. If you’re fun, natural and just plain attractive, it would make no sense for her *not* to make out with you. You can make out with someone absolutely anywhere, provided you are attractive, light-hearted and trust-inducing. There is nothing wrong with making out, unless you make it feel wrong by rushing in and being a jerk about it.