I like to think there are two kinds of prospects: one where the girl is serious about fucking and one where she’s not.

The girl who is serious about fucking either likes you a lot and/or hasn’t gotten laid in a while. The latter reason, especially, will do more to ensure sex in a rapid matter. She likes sex, thinks of sex, masturbates almost nightly with her foot long black dildo, and sincerely wants to get laid. And it’s not so much that’s she naturally horny because in America if you haven’t gotten laid in a month then you’re a huge loser, so many girls try to relieve this friction by banging random men only a few hours after meeting them. (I wish this was the case in non-Western parts of the world.)

The second girl is more wishy-washy. Sure she wants to get laid, but as a sexual camel she can go a while without it. Sometimes flirtatious attention is good enough to hold her off for months. There is no urgency for her, which is a headache for the horny man.

The way to find out if she is serious about fucking or not is by the end of the first date.

If you try for the kiss, and you don’t get it, she is not serious about fucking. I’m not saying you can’t eventually fuck her, but you’ll be chasing that pussy for many weeks.

If you try for the kiss, and you do get it, she is serious about fucking. She may not fuck you, but if you play your game right there is a coin-flip chance you will hit.

It’s that simple. A sloppy make outs on the very same night you meet her is not a reliable indicator because maybe she just wanted to kiss a guy, but setting a date with a new guy and slobbering over his face at the end of that date is a pretty good indicator of how earnest she is.

In addition, if she flakes last minute on the first date, she is definitely not serious about fucking. This is highly disrespectful actually and worthy of phone number deletion. I’ve never been able to turn around a seduction where the girl flaked on the first date.

I had a first date with a Colombian girl a few months ago and didn’t get the kiss at the end of a four hour date. My Colombian friend said, “Oh that’s no problem, girls here rarely kiss on the first date.” So it’s a cultural phenomenon right? Wrong, because I’ve had other first dates in Colombia where the kiss happened (including a daytime date at a park). Sure enough I got her on the phone again and while she claimed to want to hang out, she wanted to wait a week when she wasn’t busy with school. Not serious about fucking. Don’t waste your time with these girls. This is a reason why your first dates should be reasonably-priced drinks, to screen out girls who are merely looking for attention and not veiny cock.

If you don’t kiss by the first date, you won’t hit sooner than date five. What pussy is worth that kind of investment?

Allow me to answer that… none.

P.S. If you liked this post then I think you will like my book Bang, a collection of simple but powerful techniques, moves, and lines that make it easier for the average 20-something man to be more successful with women. Topics in Bang include discussion of the alpha male, effective opening lines, conversation themes, getting phone numbers, detailed dating strategy, and much more.

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Great post, Roosh. It’s exactly what I needed to read today.

This is why I try to kiss a girl at the very first opportunity possible. Sometimes within minutes of meeting her. (Although I tailor this approach toward the specific girl).

Its a strong move, but I don’t suggest it unless you are like me and wear insanely dope custom suits non-stop and you got swagger for days, while huffing on cigarettes, even if it is in a weak “no smoking” establishment.

Always collapse time frames.

“I’ve had other first dates in Colombia where the kiss happened (including a daytime date at a park).”

I think daytime park swoops can many times be easier than night swoops with Latina girls. As long as you set the right tone, and cultivate that swoop atmosphere. And you have strong Game.

That being said, I think with every Colombian Girl I have swooped, I got denied on kissing her when I first met her.

- MPM

The G Manifesto’s last blog post: The G Manifesto Awards, The Best of 2009.

G: why do you think that is re: daytime park swoops vs night swoops with Latina girls?

yeah, thanks. just what i needed to read today as well. “Not Serious About Fucking”.
that does indeed straight sum it up.

TAllagash’s last blog post: Insightful.

On a more long term scale. If a girl doesn’t fuck by the 3rd date, don’t bother calling for the fourth. She will require too much maintenance and expect too much of a commitment for a casual relationship. I usually cut girls off by the second. Even 3 date fucks have a significantly shorter life expectancy compared to the 1st and 2nd date fucks.

Tyler’s last blog post: Simplify First.

Elegantly simple approach. I shall keep this in mind when on dates. It certainly matches my prior experiences.

Krauser’s last blog post: I think I’m turning Japanese, I think I’m…...

Fuck that first date kiss mess. This is exactly why I use the “whip your dick out approach”. The first chance you have alone to pull out your junk, do it and act like there’s nothing weird or unnatural about it. This is how your tell if she’s for real for real about fucking or not.

My dick has been out so many times at different spots during a date, dance floor, sushi table, taxi cab, she pulls back from a hug… there’s my dick, she goes in for a handshake goodnight surprise… theres my dick.

Great Article Name!

Lol

haha..yeah, a skilled man can generally fuck by the third date. If I like a girl, then I can’t respect her for future dates if she fucks before the third date. If she does, I pretty much wont call her again. So, while I’ll take the fuck, it ruins any further possibility of anything happening beyond a booty call.

If a girl fucks on the 1st or second date, I can pretty much assume that she’s fucking multiple other guys frequently and, while philosophically I don’t give a shit, its kind of nasty. If you think that if she fucks you on the 1st-2nd date, that she hasn’t been plowed more than an old corn field, then your delusional. Plus, and more importantly, you won’t ever be able to trust her even a little bit if thats something you ever want to care about. I like my girls clean and tight.

If she doesn’t fuck by the third date, then there should be some significant action. If not, then its not looking good for her. But sometimes I’ll give the benefit of the doubt and give her the fourth date, but she’ll wait for it.

I don’t even do dates any more. It’s 100% SNL for me. I’m just bored of playing.

I simply assume every girl is 100% more whoreish than you can even imagine or a completely boring, ballbusting waste of time.

Give me a girl that’s down for a SNL, then hopefully she’s cool to hang out with. I don’t want to feel bad about wanting to bang her and her best friend a couple months from now in the hot tub. I just want it to be natural and fun.

Hopefully even if we’re in our forties she’s still down for the occasional lez fest with her girlfriend from work. Anything less and I’m going to be fantasizing and feeling like an old Herb, cheating on her with hookers or the slut from accounting. I’d rather be honest with expectations from the start. – Bon

Hi real, I do agree with you, and this is very similar in mindset to ModeOne: let the women know what you’re really thinking.

Seriously, if you haven’t read that book I ll send it to you.

anyways, a lot of people in the seduction community are into chasing girls that are just not that into them, thus they want to “seduce” her into liking them…aint gonna happen.

I pretty much agree with you here, but I’d have to say that it’s really by the 2nd date to find out whether she is serious. I’ve hooked up and banged girls who I did not kiss on the first date. Usually the first date for me is more of a feeling out process, seeing whether she is worth it, cool, horny etc. I guess it also depends on how the first meeting went, but for the most part you are right on.

I like your blog posts, you seem to have the same mentality when it comes to women as I do. I also like to go for efficiency, and don’t waste my time on women who are not interested. The poster above is right when he says a lot of guys go after and chase girls who just arent into them, I just delete the # and get more.

yeah, reading and really integrating mode one was the turning point in my dating life… It took a little while though to really meld it with my personality and to tweak it to make it work for me… Now, if a girl will talk to me/date me at least twice, then I can get her into sex quickly…

However, the rest of good dating fundamentals taught elsewhere still apply. Just drop all the indirect pussy bullshit.

chris: be careful bro, don’t get sucked into games women play. if she won’t sleep with you by date #3, that doesn’t prove shit. maybe she decided to follow ‘the rules’ if she saw a good provider in you. but she will still suck that bad boy’s cock within an hour of meeting him.

the only way test her character is the test of time. and still, even after years of no-cheating, you may not be 100%b sure. on the other hand, i’ve slept with girls on the first night, who’ve later turned out to be great girlfriend (or even friend!) material.

FWIW I have fucked a girl on the second date after she wouldn’t give me the kiss at the bar where I met her. I guess it’s technically the first date. But in any case I tried to kiss close her several times at the bar and she rejected me. On the date (which was really dinner and a DVD at my place) I did a lot of push-pull: make out, then get up and check my email; make out more, then turn on the football game. I also told her i never have sex on the first date.

Forget this kissing on the first date. Go for the lay. If she’s willing to make out with you on the first date she’s probably willing to fuck you. Why bother delaying until the second or third date? Persist until you get either sex or rejection. If she rejects you she probably wasn’t serious in the first place. Be a bad boy and go for the lay on the first date. She’ll respect you for it.

ahahaha Virgle, will have to try the junk out tactic :D

what about if a girl straight up tells you, “I’m serious about fucking”.. wouldn’t that just solve all these problems of having to read signs or body language or whatever. I’m an advocate of women being more upfront about things, it saves time and energy for both the guy and girl. Girls who don’t make it clear or have no intention of having sex with you and don’t make it KNOWN by the first date are dumb attention whores. you should know from other reasons, other than the kiss by the first date whether she’s serious about fucking. when you are attracted to a guy (hence why you’re out with him to begin with), I think there are other ways to make it clear that you’re really into him sexually..kissing, groping and I also think letting him finger you on the first date is a good way to let him know you’re serious about sex. And if he doesn’t try to finger you, sneak into an alley and just guide his hands down there while kissing. Plus, a lot of girls just like making out with dudes and think kisses don’t mean anything.. kissing on a first date is NOT the best determinant as to whether a girl is gonna have sex with you.. the other things that go on during the kiss (her moaning with pleasure or letting you touch her elsewhere) is more key.

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17: Definitely the best strategy as you just find out then and there. I like this aggressive approach and use it, gets right to the point.

20: I would also like women to be more up front. The reality of the matter IME is that very very rarely will this ever happen. It’s more of a words versus action thing. I had one girl a couple of weeks ago who said she ‘really really wanted to hang out’ but flaked twice. Well fuck it, I move on. And yes most women are attention whores, especially nowadays with the internet they don’t even have to leave the house. You’re definitely right escalating quickly and constantly upping the ante will tell you whether she is serious.

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But how do you explain that some girls will fuck you before they even kiss?
Get over it, some girls just don’t like to kiss because it means too much for them, but they WILL fuck. I have experience with this. How do you explain that?

I’m like ADD when it comes to dating. If I don’t get it the first or second night, I lose interest. It’s easy though – and the “whip it out” trick works – almost every time. It does for me anyway.
You start by saying “give me a hug” or some shit like that. Look for a tattoo or something – an excuse to get another hug. Start making out then- whip it out. It works.
Call me a pig, but, I get action most of the time this way so, whatever.