Solutions For Girls

It’s very easy for me to give advice to a guy: work on your game, have many experiences, and commit to a quality woman on your terms, not hers. Once a guy has game, he will have options into his late 30′s and probably beyond. His biggest enemy is himself. His fear, complacency, and insecurities all work to prevent him from getting what he is capable of getting.

It’s different for a woman. All the game in the world won’t matter when she is passed her physical peak and less attractive than younger counterparts. A woman’s biggest enemy is time. The clock is ticking right after college and doubles pace after year 30 is crossed. While many single women at 40 are cultured, intelligent, and make for excellent company, they have missed the marriage boat and will be reduced to competing for the attention of rich players who don’t mind flying these overly experienced mind-fuckers out to some exotic locale for a “romantic” dinner, assuming these women have the means and motivation to keep up their looks. They will die not next to loved ones, but to a pile of money that was her only remaining purpose to strive.

When a woman graduates from college at the age of 22, she thinks she has all the time in the world. She builds up her social circle to prepare for years of drinking and partying. She gets some twangs of doubt after 25, but the partying continues, now at more expensive clubs where more money needs to be spent on the clothing and accessories that go with the lifestyle. Some even go the extra mile by purchasing Mercedes Benz automobiles, an act that used to belong to the exclusive domain of men.

Then 28 and 29 passes and all she has to show for the previous near-decade is a cell phone filled with numbers of guys she “dated.” She hits day spas, gets botox, and then cruises the internet and clubs with a renewed vigor. But it doesn’t work, and 35 is here before you know it. You see her out and it appears she is having a fun time but the developing wrinkles and glassy eyes shows her abject failure at reproduction. She finds new meaning through her career and the massive amounts of subsequent disposable income that allows her to enjoy the finer things in life like luxury condominiums and designer shoes the celebrities wear. But every time she sees a child in a stroller, she wonders what happened.

Women have less time than they think. How long does it take to find a quality man? How long does it take to weed out incompatible men and enter a relationship with one that is worthy? How many relationships fail before the one-year mark? How long does a relationship have to last to make engagement possible? How long is the average engagement? How many engagements fail before the altar is reached? Every now and then you hear a story of someone meeting and then getting married after a few months, but this is the exception. A woman needs to give herself at least five years from that moment she concludes she wants to get married. This means a girl needs to start finding a husband immediately after graduating from college. You’ve arrived way too late in the game if you don’t even think about marriage until you’ve approached 30, when your reproductive peak has passed and your appearance is not what it used to be.

I have three pieces of advice for women who don’t want to end up as a spinster. First, use high school and college as a period to work on your game and fuck around. Find out what men like and improve yourself to be the type of woman that men like. Whether this includes getting rid of your neediness and drama or growing out your hair, figure it out before you start your career. If you are not sure where to start, copy the girls who seem to get all the guys.

One thing you should focus on is being sexy, exuding a certain je ne sais pas that guys find themselves inexplicably drawn into. Go tell a girl raised on Real World to show you what sexy is and she will put on pricey clothing and accessories and search for the nearest watering hole to down enough drinks until she feels comfortable in her own skin. Sexy is body language, tone, subtle movements and details —the way she does things, the way she is. This cannot be purchased at Nordstrom, but only learned with time and through effort.

Second, as soon as you graduate from college, have in your mind the notion that you want to get married soon. Be open to it and think about it daily. Reward men who put time and energy into you instead of the players who just want to fuck you. Fuck all the players you want in college, but after that buy a vibrator and don’t waste your time with them because they will not marry you. Sacrifice wild sex and roller coaster emotions for something more stable that results in a family (which is what you want, right?).

Hold off on putting out as long as possible. If I have sex with a girl on the second date and it was just okay, I’ll be more likely to drop her since I have invested very little in her. But if sex happens on date ten, the psychology of previous investment says I will most likely continue, at least for one more date. Understand: your vagina is the most powerful thing you have. To potential suitors, it should be like the El Dorado, a magical land they will die trying to gain access to. But when you partake in casual sex like one-night stands, your vagina becomes more like the 24-hour convenience store.

Lastly, don’t go to bars and clubs often. Once a week is enough. These are horrible places to meet a quality man who wants to commit, and the drinking and smoke will age you more rapidly. Focus on doing more community driven events that don’t have the immediate one-night payoff that a bar has. Maybe it’s volunteering, jogging clubs, spinning class, or book clubs. You’ll have to get creative. I’m not an expert with regard to meeting men, but even at a coffee shop I get to meet and know girls on a different, more intelligent, more meaningful level than I do with girls at bars. A good rule-of-thumb is that the reason you meet has to be something other than the result of drinking alcohol.

It’s easy to make fun of the current generation of spinsters, but I do feel bad for them because there was no way for them to know that their lifestyle would prove to be so detrimental to forming a family. But we’ve observed and studied them and they’ve been written about in the mainstream media enough to the point where there are no excuses for not avoiding their fate. If you are a girl under the age of 25, I will have no sympathy for you in the next decade when you whine to me that you’ve always wanted a family but for whatever reason couldn’t find a man. It starts now.

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  • Mr Boofu

    Capitalism is helluva drug…

  • Jo

    How do you explain someone like Helen Mirren then, who is into her 60s and still looks pretty hot? Freak of nature? Expensive, well done, plastic surgery?

    I say different women peak at different ages. Brooke Shields peaked at 16 in Blue Lagoon, but a lot of women don’t hit their beauty peak until their 30s. How else do you explain MILFs?

  • http://roissy.wordpress.com/ Roissy

    cue rapidly-expiring spinster chorus:

    “but what about halle berry?”
    “but men have a biological clock too!”
    “but some men love older women!”
    “but i read a story about an italian grandmother who gave birth to science-assisted quadruplets!”

    the
    exceptions
    don’t
    prove
    the
    rule.

    why do people, especially women, have so much trouble with this simple concept?

    jo, helen mirren looks good… for 60. this does not mean she is still fuckable by the standards of nearly every man with options.

  • InstantExcitement

    I agree with most of what you’re saying….

    However, the need for many women, and men, to slut themselves out stems from watching others do the same thing in highschool and college. As a society we want what we can’t have so once we see how easy it is for others we convince ourselves we can do it as well. For men like me, I wasted some prime years in Highschool and College being a Beta and I know a number of women who feel the same way by wasting time in a meaningless relationship. Now I’m doing it right and having a blast which is great for me as a guy….but what about the women who are finally having some fun?

  • http://www.timetoupgrade.blogspot.com mm

    must….find….future…husband…now!

    All kidding aside, thank you for scaring the shit of me with this. I don’t want to die a spinster, but I don’t think I’m ready to get married just yet.
    I agree with you on the clubs/bars/alcohol part. Relationships started in that environment are most likely doomed to fail.

  • http://www.askjimmysuede.com Eric

    Men can afford to wait longer because there’s no social stigma on men marrying younger women. I could date a 23-year-old as a 23-year-old, or I could date one as a 35-year-old. In fact, one of my girlfriend’s friends is 19 and just got engaged to a 35-year-old. This guy is probably a creepy loser, but he got 16 more years of freedom than she will.

  • nomejodas

    Some valid points, but you’re leaving Betas out of the equation! If a moderately good looking, somewhat intellectually stimulating woman really wants to get married at a certain point, I guarantee you she could find some whiny Beta to marry her and get her knocked up within a year. Don’t underestimate the persuasive powers of a woman with a loud biological clock ticking.

    Isn’t the whole ‘institution’ of marriage outdated and pointless these days? Back in the day it totally made sense, as it was a contract made to ensure wealth or security, but these days it’s just obsolete.

  • http://www.suburbanitedc.blogspot.com Genevieve

    I have three pieces of advice for women who don’t want to end up as a spinster. First, use high school and college as a period to work on your game and fuck around. Find out what men like and improve yourself to be the type of woman that men like. Whether this includes getting rid of your neediness and drama or growing out your hair, figure it out before you start your career. If you are not sure where to start, copy the girls who seem to get all the guys.

    That is the worst piece of advice ever. I hope no high school aged girls read this.
    Girls that age should concentrate on finding out what they want in life. Not everyone wants marriage, a family, etc.

    I think the only think I agreed with you on in this post was to not go to bars/ clubs to try to find someone to date. All people want there is an easy fuck; not a relationship.
    Ok, some do but how often do you run into that sort of person at those types of places?

    Also, less and less people are following the “go to college right after high school” thing. I probably won’t have my bachelors until I’m close to 30.

  • http://www.literalreality.blogspot.com rebecca

    I have to agree with Genevieve. This whole thing is just shit, minus the part about meeting people in a club. Which I’m sure was a part of your point, what with the whole liking to stir up controversy thing that you have going. Either that or your life must be a sad, barren place. No wonder all the guys here complain about the girls they date being boring. You guys all seem to think that girls should be Stepford wives, and then you complain that girls have no personalities.

  • kayla

    This made me laugh out loud.

    Oddly enough, it reminded me of the scene in “Say Anything” when John Cusack is at the Sip and Go (you know the scene.. it precedes the “I gave her my heart, she gave me a pen”).. All his boys are giving him advice on women.. to which he replies “If you all know so much about women then tell me why are sitting in the parking lot of a Sip and Go on a Friday night”… By choice man.. By choice!

  • Sweat P.

    Just FYI I think the phrase is “Je ne sais quoi”, literally, “I do not know what”.

  • kayla

    Woo, my spinsterness is in overdrive today.. I actually have two comments!

    I actually sent it to a coworker (orthodox Jewish girl) who I thought would totally be keen on this. As she is 22 and is desperately seeking her husband. Orthodox Jewish girls get married by 19/20 – they apparently know what’s up (all this time I thought it was the most oppressive form of my religion)! They also cover their hair (only the husband gets to see the real hair), do not wear pants (only long ass skirts), do not wear short sleeves, do not show their collar bone because it is deemed “too sexual”. The only bummer is that they don’t have sex (kiss or touch) until they are married… (well, I guess if you marry at 19 – who cares.. it’s worth the wait!)

    I’d rather be a spinster.

  • http://meaninginsilence.blogspot.com/ Hiro

    A very unsentimental analysis of an almost inherently sentimental undertaking.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    Nice post, Roosh. Kinda dovetails with a Sex in the City rerun I saw last nite which had feminist Miranda freaked out she’d die alone and get eaten by her cat.

    But I take issue with this:
    “She finds new meaning through her career and the massive amounts of subsequent disposable income…”

    I’ve found most single women spend and don’t save because they think Mr. Right will eventually come along and they’ll cash out. They wind up in more debt by age 40 than men because they spend more (80 percent of all purchases in the US are made by women). I wish I had earmarked one of those ridiculously feminist-minded articles I had seen in the most, titled something like “debt hits women the hardest!”

  • http://rinaface.blogspot.com irina

    we shall discuss tete-a-tete.

    girls, you know you hate it, but he’s kinda right. except for a few things:
    a woman has a lot of sexy if she is confident (not in an arrogant way).
    being that girl who is obviously seeking a husband is not sexy.
    also, a true love can make you soooo happy, why wouldn’t that be the drug we all search for all the time?

  • terps

    To all the girls who are overlooking Roosh’s advice about being sexy:

    You need to drop the feminist attitude and act more like WOMEN, not men. That is the first step to being sexy. I’m not saying you have to stop wearing pants ands start wearing dresses on a daily basis, but you have to take a hard look at your own attitude and how you behave as ladies. Are you meeting, attracting, and dating the men YOU want? or have you been complaining to your girlfriends about the losers you usually go out with? If its the latter, then fix your attitude and start acting like WOMEN and LET men be men.

  • Jay Gatsby

    Seems like the battle lines are being drawn along gender lines. Seriously though, many women do not want to admit that their chief assets are their youth and beauty. Yet this is the way it has been throughout recorded history.

    Likewise, freedom is a wonderful thing, but don’t believe the lie that Feminism continues to tell women — “you can have it all.” The truth is that you can’t have the full and complete career of a man, while at the same time have the full and complete family life of a woman.

    “Girls that age should concentrate on finding out what they want in life. Not everyone wants marriage, a family, etc.” — Genevieve

    True, but even girls who haven’t decided whether they want a husband and kids already know that they want to experience drama and excitement. This is especially the case if they were under the watchful eyes of mommy and daddy until they went off to college. Roosh is simply recommending that women get their need for drama and excitement out of their systems before they waste all of their prime years on bad boys and players.

    “No wonder all the guys here complain about the girls they date being boring. You guys all seem to think that girls should be Stepford wives, and then you complain that girls have no personalities.” — Rebecca

    This is because many women are boring, or worse, have unreasonable expectations. Such women think they can give an all-you-can-eat buffet to bad boys and players for 8-10 years, then stick some nice guy with the dinner check when they hit their late-20s. Any woman who lives her life like this has absolutely no right to complain that she can’t find a good man to marry her. She made her bed, and now has to lie in it. Additionally, most men don’t want Stepford wives, but rather want, as Terps pointed out, women who want to be women. Such men don’t want to spend their days and nights competing over who can be more of a man. If you want to be a man’s wife and mother to his children, then learn to act like one.

  • Mr Boofu

    You need to drop the feminist attitude and act more like WOMEN, not men. That is the first step to being sexy.
    *******************************************
    You bringing sexy back?????

  • http://wendysmightyminutiae.blogspot.com Wendy

    You are absolutely correct. I have a friend who is 23 and I have been telling her to stop dicking around and figure it out. Not necessarily for the reasons you stated but because women are losing their fertility earlier and earlier.

    When you pump Happy Meals into 4 and 5 year old girls, all the growth hormone in those cheeseburgers makes them hit menses at 10 years old. Hit menses at 10 run out of eggs by the time you are 32. Hurry up girls, fuck these loser dudes (not literally) and fast track to the baby track.

    Great post.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    “Such women think they can give an all-you-can-eat buffet to bad boys and players for 8-10 years, then stick some nice guy with the dinner check when they hit their late-20s.”

    Excellent quote, Jay! However as an older guy, I need to point out they’re sticking the guys with the dinner check at 39 not 29 these days. Then they expect kids as well. WTF? There’s something like a 1 in 25 chance of Down’s Syndrome when a women hits 40 and conceives. But the media does not mention this much.

  • Jo

    Jay “This is because many women are boring, or worse, have unreasonable expectations.”

    And men don’t? You’re stating it right here. You want women to be eternally beautiful, give up their life and career to marry young in order to “snag” a man early on. Forget about having kids, because kids ruin our bodies.

    Roosh does make some excellent points about the mistakes some women make while searching for a guy, but it doesn’t mean that we should become cookie cutter versions of each other. To each his own.

  • terps

    Jo says “Forget about having kids, because kids ruin our bodies.”

    I sincerely hope you don’t really believe that. In my experience, nothing could be further from the truth. I’ve met and dated quite a few women who have had kids and still have great bodies. It’s because they take care of themselves – always – and never letting themselves go, so to speak. You could have 3 kids of your own and still be thin and sexy if you take care of yourself, exercise regularly, eat healthy, and you will want to do this to look good for your man if you love him and he loves you.

  • Jo

    Terps, I know that. I was exaggerating for the purposes of what I assumed the guys here would say.

  • http://roissy.wordpress.com/ Roissy

    gatsby:
    “many women do not want to admit that their chief assets are their youth and beauty.”

    true.
    this is because they fear judgement. especially judgement of those things about themselves they can’t change.

  • not a brainwashed idiot

    Yes, that French phrase would be “Je ne sais quoi.” “Je ne sais pas” means “I don’t know.” As in, “Je ne sais pas what the fuck I am talking about.”

    There’s nothing original here- for the idea about women being either virgins or whores, try Catholicism. Despite promoting himself as someone giving advice about the “modern” dating scene, Roosh is awfully conservative.

  • http://bunifah.blogspot.com bunifah

    I’m not saying you are wrong, it is just really clear that you have no idea what it is like to be a woman. It must be nice to be a man in your world, where women have all these things to worry about and guys just worry about pussy.

    And Gatsby, are not youth and beauty ALWAYS assets, to everyone?
    Beautiful is just what people call interesting women, throughout history. Beauty is inherently feminine. Cleopatra, for example, was not really a great beauty but she was smart, cunning and interesting. People try to downplay her significance by putting her in the “seductress” category, but the truth is that the men she influenced could have had any woman they wanted.

    The “full and complete career of a man” is going extinct. The women, the natural multitaskers, will become increasingly successful as business moves toward work/life integration and technology now makes it possible to telecommute. Women need to make their own oppurtunities and luckily the world is unfolding in a way that increasingly allows that.

    O wait, but then what will all you men do if you no longer have things like money and power to hang over womens heads?

  • http://arjewtino.com Arjewtino

    “Pussy can pull a freight train.” — George Pelecanos

    The power of vagina is so underestimated by the very people who have them.

  • http://bunifah.blogspot.com bunifah

    Who’s underestimating pussy?

  • http://rinaface.blogspot.com irina

    This entire argument could have come verbatim from my father’s mouth. When I lived at home, he would come into the bathroom as I was blowdrying my hair and ask, “where are you going tonight?” “Out,” I would say. Then he’d give me a speech that subtly told me I wouldn’t find a husband at a bar.
    He always urges me to go and meet quality men, respect myself and not settle for less, and also have a career that makes money. Careers and families do not ever have to be mutually exclusive.
    But this is such a small part of the story, just the tip of the iceberg of the difficulty of women’s lives. After my dad’s speeches, my mom pulls me aside and gives me the real deal. The real deal is too sad to even write here.
    Bunifah I’m with you.

  • Vegas

    The modern dating scene is a WASTELAND…at least here in Vegas! Not only are women judged on their physical appearance, but thanks to the internet porn sites and strip clubs…guys now except a gal to know more tricks in bed than a rodeo clown! Anal, threesomes involving a second woman, using a variety of whips, chains, and/or various vibrating devices, posing naked for photographs that a prospective beau …”promises that only he will view these & not show them to anyone else….” are just some examples of what is expected for women these days.

  • Vegas

    At least spinsters can hang on to their self-respect!

  • tampa

    I love how women deny the very fact that they want stability, marriage and love by 30.

    There is something magical about that age where a women says “oh shit.”

    They hit that age and if they aren’t married, been close to married — or in the ball park of being married….they freak.

    They will deny it, but its true.

    If you check any internet dating site.. Run a search for women from 20-30 and from 30-40.

    YOur 30-40 search will result in almost triple the results.

    hilarious.

  • Eastern European

    : How do you explain someone like Helen Mirren then, who is into her 60s and still looks pretty hot?

    It is simple – as you fuck older women, you know that the fact she looks hot in closes does not mean you’d fuck her when she strips.

    Not to mention it is easy to look “hot” in US – basically if a girl is not overweight, and wears a short skirt, she is considered hot. This criteria became useless here.

  • Eastern European

    : If a moderately good looking, somewhat intellectually stimulating woman really wants to get married at a certain point, I guarantee you she could find some whiny Beta to marry her and get her knocked up within a year.

    As far as I see it doesn’t work in US – even though it supposed to. The reason is probably that such a woman has a lot of “girl friends”, who constantly tell her that she deserves the best, and should not settle on anything less than Arnold Shwartznegger.

  • Eastern European

    : If you check any internet dating site.. Run a search for women from 20-30 and from 30-40.

    This is expectable. Most people are not looking for _relationship_ in 20-30. And those who do, have enough people around to choose, and do not need to go to a dating site. I’d even go further and say that if a person in his/her 20th posts ads on dating site, he/she has really serious communication problem.

    : YOur 30-40 search will result in almost triple the results.

    And if you look on 40-50, you’ll find even more – and in most cases they dramatically lower their searching criteria.

    Remember how the women requirements for men change with ages?

    All she wants from a man is that he should be:

    At 18 – Tall, Dark & Handsome.

    At 22 – Tall, Dark, Handsome with Money and Big Dick

    At 27 – Tall, Dark, Handsome with Money, Brains and Big Dick.

    At 35 – A man with Money & Brains & Big Dick.

    At 40 – A man with Money or Brains or Big Dick.

    At 50 – A man with Hair

    At 60 – A man

  • Sweat P.

    What will I do if I no longer have things like money and power to hang over womens heads? Hopefully I will be able to mooch off of a woman. That’s pretty much my best-case scenario as it is anyway.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    “O wait, but then what will all you men do if you no longer have things like money and power to hang over womens heads?”

    Only a woman could be so self-deluded as to make a statement like this. It’s women who have made money and power the main thing they judge men by. Most men would prefer to sip bneer and be lazy, but to get pussy you gotta go out there and earn that Mercedes and big house.

    When powerful female executives decide they can marry the mail clerk (en masse) that’s the day money and power won’t matter.

    When the cheerleaders go for the science dweeb instead of the footballer, that’s the day money and power won’t matter.

    Bitches set up the game that made power and money important, not men. Now they claim we “hang it over their heads.”

    Marry the fucking Burger King guy if you don’t want money and power. I dare you to do that.

  • http://bunifah.blogspot.com bunifah

    I see “bitches” set up this system. How could I have been so blind! WE are the ones who want to make .70 on the dollar, just so then we could feel justified about judging men by their money and power. All of this, on both sides, operates under a scarcity principle that there isn’t enough money/quality women or men to go around. That’s lazy.
    And wouldn’t I just be deluded and not “self-deluded”?
    And are we talking about powerful executive women or women in general? Typically I didn’t think powerful men went after equally powerful women.

    I think men set up the game (don’t they set up all games?) because if a woman focuses on things aquired externally (money/power) then she wont notice that he’s emotionally and intuitively inferior to her.

  • http://roissy.wordpress.com/ Roissy

    loofah:
    “WE are the ones who want to make .70 on the dollar”

    this is a myth. once you control for the occupation choice differential between the sexes the wage gap virtually disappears.
    feminist dogma doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on anymore.
    kinda like religion. of which the two are eerily similar.
    heh.

    “I think men set up the game”

    don’t hate the playa…
    dba is basically correct. women AND men are the way we are because that is what the opposite sex all through the course of human and pre-human history expressed in mate choice. if women were spreading their legs for slump-shouldered spotted-assed pasty caved-chested anime fanboys then the world would be full of these types of guys complaining how they have to beat the pussy off with a stick.

  • miik

    If you’re beautiful

    you don’t have to worry

    Be beautiful

    live with that certain something

  • Eastern European

    : Bitches set up the game that made power and money important, not men. Now they claim we “hang it over their heads.”

    It’s easy – don’t follow bitches game, and they will die alone. No genes saves – one bitch less.

  • boc

    Irina — please post the real deal, according to your mom. I am very interested in hearing what she had to say.

  • http://bunifah.blogspot.com bunifah

    Eastern European, you are creeping me out.

    Something to think about.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    Roissy is right, women don’t make 70 cents on the dollar. That’s a myth used by feminists to create dissention and garner votes for female candidates or support whatever the cause du jour is.

    However, when a man and woman get hired at WalMart, remember it’s the guy that does the dirty work and lifts the heavy stuff putting him at risk. The women get to stand around and smile. Hence higher pay for these kind of jobs for men — and these jobs account for much of the economy.

    On a different note… Marilyn Vos Savant once wondered if women make 70 cents to a man’s dollar, why do companies hire men at all? Think about that. Companies are in the business of making money. Why would they WANT to pay more when they don’t have to??

    Here’s a link to why the wage gap is a feminist myth; there are many more: http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/04/23/gender-feminist-wage-gap-myth-appears-to-be-growing-legs-part-ii/

    I’m convinced most American have an entitlement complex. They possess over 50 percent of the wealth yet whine they don’t have enough. They complain about job conditions when men account for 90 percent of all workplace injuries. And they whine about their “lack” of health care when they out live men by SEVEN YEARS!!!

    If anyone has a right to whine in this society, it’s black men, who do in fact get paid less, injured on the job more, murdered at a higher rate and have the shortest life expectancy!!

  • http://bunifah.blogspot.com bunifah

    men news daily, really? thats your proof? anyway lets drop the 70 cent on the dollar thing, since you feel it’s disputable.
    Every menial job I’ve ever done required that i do just as much unpleasant work as men, i just cant help that i physically cannot left over a certain weight. You wouldn’t hold it against a guy who was just weak, but that wouldn’t happen since men are socialized to take stupid risks in order to be macho. Maybe thats why men get injured on the job as well, they don’t know when to say when.

    and we outlive you because we take better care of ourselves, its not our fault you cant eat a vegetable once in a while.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    Adeendum: MEN, not women are the mosty likely to experience violence and die from that. So the link that Bunifah put out there about “violence against women” is yet another example of feminist entitlement whining.

    Falsehoods like this got us the Violence Against Women Act, which CAUSED the Duke fiasco, because it makes it unlawful to see if a woman who cried rape is lying. Read about it here: http://hatemalepost.blogspot.com/

    For a good post about why women’s magazines reflect women’s self-interests, go here: http://eternalbachelor.blogspot.com/

    And I’m wondering why the feminist never bother to thank all the men who invented all the zillions of modern conveniences that make women’s lives easier. They no longer die during childbirth, for example. The modern world is a safe, orderly place compared to 100 years ago and men are entirely to thank for establishing all society’s inventions and laws. As Camille Paglia said, if women ran the world, we’d all be living in huts.

    WE NOW LIVE IN A POST-INTERNET SOCIETY AND FEMINISTS CANNOT GET AWAY WITH THEIR LIES BECAUSE MEN NOW HAVE A WAY TO COMMUNICATE AND CHECK DATA BEYOND THE BIASED MEDIA. It’s the Internet that is causing feminism to die, because men now have instant access to stats that were hidden years back. The old media allowed feminism to flourish and the internet is putting it in its grave.

  • Days of Broken Arrows

    Response to Bunifah’s last post:

    I propose we have a National Men’s Day, where women are forced to live for a day without any inventions by men. No running water. No electricity. No cars!! No martinis.

    And here is Steve Chapman from the Chicago Tribune in the fake wage gap. Sorry Men’s News Daily is apparently not good enough for you; meanwhile zillions of women get their “news” from Oprah:
    http://www.reason.com/news/show/119920.html

  • http://roissy.wordpress.com/ Roissy

    an original thinker:
    “men are socialized to take stupid risks in order to be macho.”

    am i socialized to spring a chub when i see a hot chick?
    just asking. i really am curious. maybe all these years the messages i’ve been getting from TV were telling me to get aroused? hmm, i never chubbed out for girls before puberty, tho. maybe TV takes 12 years to work its socialization magic? i’m sure the educational-parental-playground-toymakers-searsunderwearcatalog-industrial complex had something to do with instigating my chubbies.
    those bastards! i have seen the light.
    where do i sign up for the deprogramming?

    “its not our fault you cant eat a vegetable once in a while.”

    does tossing salads count?

  • The Dude

    I am tired of women saying how tough it is for them. It is tough for both of us. Life is tough so just get over it. The minute I hear bunifah incinuating that women have it tougher than men is the moment you lost all credibility with me.

    Women often make less because they take off time to raise children. But guess what- it’s the same story for the guy who wants to work less to spend time with his kids, but he’s gotta balance it out to make sure the he’s not taking off TOO much time so he can keep things afloat financially until mom can get back to work.

    Honestly, I am all for equal rights and feminism. I am an enormously 21st century male: want me to stay home and raise the kids? No prob babes– you go make the big dough, it’s no skin off my back, but then you’ll need to buy me the car and not get pissed off if I want to go play golf on a sunny morning while you are stuck in the office.

    My mom is a stay at home mom but still by all accounts a feminist of the 60s era. Her response to the recent developments ala sex and the city is that too many PEOPLE (NOT JUST WOMEN) nowadays want it all without sacrifices. We are so far removed now from a time of depression that most people expect so much. They EXPECT it. I see this creep up all the time. In men it is the expectation that you will get the super skinny model wife who will pop out babies, not complain, not give you a hard time if you don’t make enough and aren’t ambitiou and don’t provide, will let you ask for a three way, and let you go out with the guys whenever you want– which is totally unrealistic. It’s the same with women: they want a career, but they also want babies, and they want a husband who will respect all this without being domaninant but also will make a mint so that mommy can spend her money on purses and convertibles all while living in a massive home in the right suburb. Guess what– it ain’t happening for either of you!!!

    I had a discussion with another person in my profession the other day where he said, “Isn’t a compromise when both parties agree on what they want?” My response: “No. A compromise is when neither party gets exactly what they want.”

  • http://shadowsofourselves.wordpress.com shadowsofourselves

    Oh Roosh.

    I couldn’t agree with you more. You’re MOSTLY right.

    Except for the fact that I’ve been there, done that.

    Played around when I was younger, then straightened out for a bit.. Got married, because, well, a “nice” guy who wasn’t an asshole came along. Except we were all wrong for each other. Two “nice” people don’t exactly mean that it’s the right thing. Oops, my bad.

    I think in general you’re right, but when you marry a guy that five years later find out he “might” be gay (he’s “confused”), it’s just kind of SUCKS.

    But yeah, I followed that path you just laid out.

  • Eastern European

    : I think in general you’re right, but when you marry a guy that five years later find out he “might” be gay (he’s “confused”), it’s just kind of SUCKS.

    Being on several swinger parties, and having seen a lot of married women being naked I understood why the gay population is rising. If my wife turned into a fat cow like them, I’d probably tell her that “I might be gay” just not to fuck her anymore. Maybe that’s the reason in your case as well?

    Surprisingly for me, and contrary to popular belief, men in US typically keep themselves in a better shape than women. Maybe that’s why about 80% of people who are working out in our gym are men. Yes, women are there as well, but most of them spend time sitting on a incline press bench discussing last fashion trends from Cosmo with another woman. Lol.

  • http://shadowsofourselves.wordpress.com shadowsofourselves

    Oh EE..

    Maybe you’re right.

    But you’re not. You’d hit this in a second.

    4’11″, 97 pounds.

    But yeah, you sound a bit insecure to me.

  • Eastern European

    The Dude:

    For the last five years I have never seen a confirmed, non-biased evidence that women, who has the same education, training, and responsibilities, and works the same amount of time doing the same things earns less than a man in the same place. Most of those “studies” just make wild assumptions, which completely exclude personal skills and abilities, family and other connections, and even the pure luck. Typical “study” looks like that – look on Bill Gates, who graduated from Harward, and makes N billions a year. And now look on Mary, Anne and Juliette – they all work hard, but even their combined income is less than 1% of Bill Gates income! How unfair is that!

  • Eastern European

    : 4′11″, 97 pounds.

    Good fot you, so maybe it wasn’t the case (assuming you maintained this weight during the marriage, and do not look like a cancer patient). However the problem is still there; people do not go gay out of successful relationship. Did you go to counselling?

  • http://shadowsofourselves.wordpress.com shadowsofourselves

    Thanks EE. And yes, I was this way. I even had a kid, gained 40 pounds and lost it right away, and, umm, yeah.. The thing is, EE, I doubt he TURNED gay.. You get my drift? I had my blinders on.. Wanted to get married. So did he.. He just doesn’t like women.

  • Eastern European

    2 bunifah
    : Something to think about.

    I’d say – a lot of text with no idea behind it. Are you practicing typing, or you just quoted someone?

  • Eastern European

    2shadowsofourselves:

    This way I’m surprised you took it so far. Most of relationships like that do not survive for more than a year; more than two years relationship is already considered stable in modern world. There was a nice Mossman book about it, she examined a lot of couples where one part went gay. She claimed that more than 75% just used that to go from one unsuccessful relationship to another one (in most cases, even less successful than the one before).

    This, of course, assumes that you use “being gay” as “become a person who can only live with another man”, not “liked to suck dick”.

  • http://shadowsofourselves.wordpress.com shadowsofourselves

    Yeah, it only survived b/c we had a kid. Mistake.

    Thank god it’s over with.

    Thank god I’m still a decent 20something who has many options to choose from.

  • Eastern European

    : In men it is the expectation that you will get the super skinny model wife who will pop out babies, not complain, not give you a hard time if you don’t make enough and aren’t ambitiou and don’t provide, will let you ask for a three way, and let you go out with the guys whenever you want– which is totally unrealistic.

    It is not. Just get outside the USA, and you’ll find it all – and even more.

    BTW, three ways are boring, the last one we were was 52-way :P

  • Jewcano

    Holy fuck. My buzz started wearing off by comment 30 or so. What was this article about again?

    Oh, and I go to bars looking for women that want to commit. That’s not exactly true, I go to bars to get drunk, but I keep my eyes and ears open. Fuck if I have the time or the desire to join ‘jogging clubs, spinning class, or book clubs’ or whatever the fuck Oprah says you should be doing to hook a man this week, I’m too busy having fun at work. What kind of guy are you going to meet in a spinning class? Sure, you may meet a guy like Roosh, but if you’re looking for a man who spends his time jogging and spinning but only showers twice a week, I might not fit your bill anyway. It should goes without saying that if you radiate that ‘I think all you men in here are douchebags’ vibe in the club, well, gee, only the douchebags are going to go near you.

  • Eastern European

    2shadowsofourselves:
    : Thank god I’m still a decent 20something who has many options to choose from.

    When you are divorced and have a kid, you already have all time in the world, and this article does not matter anymore.

    You are now in different group, where a lot of smart men is looking for a relationship – not just sex – with a person like you. They look for a person who had been married – this means that she knows that good marriage is not something you get by choosing the right partner. It is hard work for both people, and when she agrees to enter the relationship again, she does it with open eyes, knowing that from the beginning. Her expectations are now more realistic, she is not taking anything good for granted, but is thankful and rewarding (which encourages other party to make things even better). And it makes it easier to build strong, good relationship when both people are committing with their actions, and not just nice words.

    Having a kid is even better. Not only it makes you stronger, and more responsible (which is good), but it makes things easier. You both in relationship are no longer in hurry for “getting babies”, as you already have one, and therefore can wait. This also gives both of you time to decide whether you even want to have more kids, or not. You already have one, so there is less or no pressure from the society, which positively affects the relationship as well.

    I myself was looking for a girl who was married, with a kid. I found one, and I married her. We’re already together for a while, and our marriage is a happy one. We have gone through a lot of problems I’m sure we wouldn’t be able to deal with if she wasn’t married before. So, relax and enjoy life – a nice, smart and relationship-oriented men are looking for you already.

    Enjoy your life – now you can go to a bar just to get a drink. You do not need anything else there.

  • http://shadowsofourselves.wordpress.com shadowsofourselves

    EE. Well put.

  • Eastern European

    And ignore those assholes who would tell you that you need to “settle for less”, because there are less men looking for a divorced girl with kid. There are definitely less, but you’d like about 1 our of 20, comparing to typical 1:500 ratio.

    P.S. your blog rocks.

  • http://shadowsofourselves.wordpress.com shadowsofourselves

    EE – Agreed. Again.

    And keep visiting my blog. Just started. I’m sure one of these days I’ll say something prolific.

  • itscool

    EE – I have to disagree with that women in general are more better shape(physical) than men. In my observation I have found that majority of women are in better shape than their husbands or so’s. Just look around you will see plenty of cases where man is not that physically attractive but has a beautiful wife or girlfriend. It’s rare to see a good looking man with a ugly wife or girlfriend.

  • http://roissy.wordpress.com/ Roissy

    listen you guys are kidding yourselves if you really think a single mom is not handicapped in the dating arena. this is basic human psychology 101. no man wants to spend his precious resources (time, money, love) raising another man’s child. most men who were OK with doing this were forthwith weeded out of the gene pool a LOOOONG time ago.

    with the introduction of the pill, women have become less careful about sleeping around because they can now afford to. this freedom to fuck around coupled with women’s increased earning power has been bad news for the niceguy provider males and a boon for the badboy players. the trend will only accelerate as men get wise to the shifting sexual dynamics. exhibit a: 60% of college students are now women. men are dropping out and foreclosing on long-term planning in favor of short term game.

  • itscool

    Roissy I agree with you 100%. Single men will never marry single moms as long as they have other options. They would rather marry a ug than marry a hot single mom. That’s just my 2 cents. I bet that’s how women feel about dating the single fathers too; although it is fairly common to see alpha’s fathering children with multiple women.

    Women, you have to be really careful who you marry and whose baby you have. Your mom’s right, the bad boys and the alpha’s, they just gonna screw you and move on, that’s how it is. It’s not them it’s the genes. Be open-minded to betas, they may turn out to be wonderful lovers and father if you give them a chance.

  • Pingback: The Problem » Roosh V

  • boc

    IRINA — second page.. second timeasking.. please post what your mom had to say (as mentioned above). I am curious as to what she had to say.

  • Eastern European

    Roissy, itscool et all:

    First, a small introduction about alpha males. The role and population of alphas has been studied; they vary from 5 to 10 percent in animal world, however in human world their numbers are less than 5 percents – and declining. The main theory is that human race mixes themselves pretty well (interracial marriages etc), and therefore the main role of alphas – mixing genes – is not actual anymore.

    Second, alphas in relationship. By definition, alpha could not last long in a stable and faithful relationship. It’s against his nature. He may simulate it for a while, but the end is always the same – the relationship is broken. Again, I’m talking about true alphas, not betas who consider themselves alpha because they play games.

    Third, much less pleasant for you guys. Most of you talking about loser betas who cannot play games – are betas themselves. Alphas do not play games. They do not learn games, and do not improve them. If you ask a typical alpha how he picks up women, his reply would be – just be yourself. Alpha does not need to learn games. If you do – you are not alpha. That’s not bad; there is nothing wrong being beta, and they are more useful for survival of human species. Just a note.

    Now we’re ready to talk:

    : this is basic human psychology 101. no man wants to spend his precious resources (time, money, love) raising another man’s child.

    “No man” sounds very immature. Every person is different, and if something is not an option for you, it doesn’t mean it is not an option for everyone else. How old are you?

    The whole quote is absurd. For a child the real father is not the one who fucked her mother. The father is the one who spent his precious resources raising this child. Not to mention that we’re not in China; you can have more children if you want to. A lot of people adopt children, even from other countries. If your resources are so limited that you cannot spend them on children, you probably need some changes in your lifestyle.

    : with the introduction of the pill, women have become less careful about sleeping around because they can now afford to.

    Even the Ancient Egyptians knew about contraception. The introduction of the pill just made it simpler. Most reasonable women, however, still use condoms – the pill does not protect you from STDs. Also the pill is not perfect – my wife just got pregnant being on pill.

    : Roissy I agree with you 100%. Single men will never marry single moms as long as they have other options.

    Yeah, I thought like that when I was 19. Looks like someone needs to grow up, and stop using words like “never” in regard to relationships.

    : They would rather marry a ug than marry a hot single mom. That’s just my 2 cents.

    Could I ask you how many single men have you asked? Are you sure you are not projecting your own (very limited, I’d say) world view on everyone else?
    Same question as to Roissy – how old are you, and in how many long (more than 6 months) serious relationships have you been? This is important; it is perfectly ok to think like that in your early 20th. But if you’re close to your thirties, it is very strange.

    And, as a final note – my theory is different. The girl should get married early (20-22 is probably the best), and spend at least 2-3 years in marriage. She’ll get divorced with around 50% probability (current divorce rate in US). However she’ll still be in good shape, with a kid, and has much better chance in future relationships – as the divorce rate for the 2nd marriage is around 9%. She therefore has much better chance to get a life-long stable relationship than a person who first got married in 35, and hit the same divorce rate.

  • Rajia

    Sometimes I wonder what world you all live in. If dating and finding someone to love and care about is this hard for you, maybe it’s because YOU suck.

  • http://roissy.wordpress.com/ Roissy

    e e cummed:
    “however in human world their numbers are less than 5 percents”

    there was a study done where women and men looked at photos of 100 random age-appropriate members of the opposite sex and were asked how many of them they found sexually desirable. men found 80% of the women attractive while women found only 20% of the men attractive.
    the study confirmed that women are the choosier sex, but it also suggested that # of potential alpha males hovers around 20% of the population.

    “mixes themselves pretty well (interracial marriages etc)”

    not really. most people still assortatively mate and marry someone like themselves. in fact, thanks to mass immigrant-driven balkanization, the latest general social survey shows interracial marriage is down in the past 5 years.

    “the main role of alphas”

    the main role of alphas is the same as the main role of betas — to survive and replicate.

    “alpha could not last long in a stable and faithful relationship”

    this depends. while it’s generally true that an alpha male good with women will play the field more because he won’t experience the morale-deflating sting of rejection as much, once he captures the heart of an amazingly beautiful woman equal to him in sexual market value he’ll be more likely to commit.
    at least for longer than a few lays.

    “Alphas do not play games.”

    everyone plays games.
    since game-playing is an intrinsic part of the alpha’s character, he can afford to scoff at those whose learning curves are steeper.
    but he is as much a slave to the cosmic forces as anyone.

    ““No man” sounds very immature.”

    ceteris paribus.
    take an average single guy dating two women equal in every way except one has a kid from another man.
    who is this guy gonna choose for a relationship?
    narrowing the criteria, who is he gonna choose to fuck around with? kids are a notorious buzzkill.
    yes, we all know of exceptions to the rules. there are guys who like to fuck fatties. but i wouldn’t start advising women to grow three chins if they want to improve their love lives.

    “How old are you?”

    do you think if i were 14 the truth of what i say would change?

    “For a child the real father is not the one who fucked her mother.”

    why do adoptees search out their biological parents?
    the pull of genetic kinship is not to be trifled with.
    anyhow, we are talking about the interests of the man, not the child.

    “The father is the one who spent his precious resources raising this child.”

    did you know that stepdads are more likely to sexually abuse their stepdaughters than biological dads are to abuse their real daughters?

    “Even the Ancient Egyptians knew about contraception.”

    contraception wasn’t nearly as widely available or effective then as it has been since about 40 years ago.

    “Also the pill is not perfect”

    no, but it’s damn close. and in the big picture, it’s the averages that matter.

    “They would rather marry a ug than marry a hot single mom.”

    for the record, i don’t agree with this.
    a hot mom with a kid beats a childless UG any day.
    but then, those are not usually the choices we are presented with.

    “how old are you”

    probably older than you think.

    “how many long (more than 6 months) serious relationships have you been?”

    there are many that have seen so much… and learned so little.

    “However she’ll still be in good shape, with a kid,”

    even better, she should skip on popping out the tot until she’s good and ready to settle down for the long haul.
    if she can’t manage that, she’s gonna have to get used to the dregs that’ll start washing ashore. the alphas will be too busy fucking the girls who don’t have to leave dates early to pay the babysitter.

    best.

  • Eastern European

    2Roissy:

    > the study confirmed that women are the choosier sex, but it also suggested that # of potential alpha males hovers around 20% of the population.

    Your interpretation of this study is incorrect. The results were only based on physical appearance, while the biggest difference between alphas and betas is BEHAVIOR, not how do they look like.

    : not really. most people still assortatively mate and marry someone like themselves.

    It doesn’t matter. The numbers are large enough to justify the evolutional elimination of alphas. Note that interracial marriage is just an example of how modern gene pool mixing works; international (or even interstate) marriages also add a lot to it. That’s a big difference between humans and, for example, chimps – chimps could not travel from other end of Africa, and have children in local brood.

    : this depends. while it’s generally true that an alpha male good with women will play the field more because he won’t experience the morale-deflating sting of rejection as much, once he captures the heart of an amazingly beautiful woman equal to him in sexual market value he’ll be more likely to commit.

    It’s a nice sounding theory, but unfortunately it doesn’t work. Alphas do not work on “capturing” a selected woman. It is beta strategy. Alphas fuck, and go on – basically, in non-stop. Sure, he could pause for a year-two, but it won’t last.

    : everyone plays games.
    : since game-playing is an intrinsic part of the alpha’s character, he can afford to scoff at those whose learning curves are steeper.

    “Playing game” by its definition assumes “following rules”. You have to follow rules to play the game, and this makes it artifical. Alphas do not follow rules. They set rules of the game, and the rest people follow them.

    : take an average single guy dating two women equal in every way except one has a kid from another man. who is this guy gonna choose for a relationship?

    Using such an example you can prove that you will never have a chance to meet a women until you earn 100K/year:

    “take an average single woman dating two guys like you, except the second one makes 100K/year. who is this girl gonna choose for a relationship?”

    The main problem with your example is that there is just NO two single woman equal in every way. Every woman, every man is different. Everyone has his/her good and bad points. It is typical for younger people to look for someone “just a little more perfect” than what they have. Like “my girl is nice, drama-free and caring, only if it looks better!” Know what? If she looks better, there is a big chance she wouldn’t be his girlfriend at all unless he looks better himself!

    : narrowing the criteria, who is he gonna choose to fuck around with? kids are a notorious buzzkill.

    I have chosen it. I know a lot of men who have married divorced women with kids. Looks like someone just needs to grow up – there is really no difference raising your own child, or someone else’s; if everything works fine, you’ll have more kids anyway.

    : yes, we all know of exceptions to the rules. there are guys who like to fuck fatties. but i wouldn’t start advising women to grow three chins if they want to improve their love lives.

    Even in this case, when you are looking for a relationship, physical appearance is not that important. Even if you marry a miss World, the initial lust based on sex appeal will wear off in following 3-6 months. For a good relationship it is much more important to have it with the “right” (for you, of course) person. I’d choose a calm, nice fatty over a very beautiful bitch anytime for a relationship.

    : do you think if i were 14 the truth of what i say would change?

    Actually I think you’re around 19-23. And – sorry for disappointing you – what you are saying is just your opinion, and far from truth.

    : why do adoptees search out their biological parents?

    Most adoptees (adopted before 1 year) do not even know they were adopted. Those who do, and those who search, are just curious.

    : anyhow, we are talking about the interests of the man, not the child.

    We are talking about the interest of everyone involved in relationship. If you think you could have a good and stable relationship, caring only or mostly about your own interests – you will fail.

    : did you know that stepdads are more likely to sexually abuse their stepdaughters than biological dads are to abuse their real daughters?

    No, I don’t know that. And you do not _know_ that too, by the way. You just read/heard about it somewhere. Please try to see a difference between things you _know_ and things someone else said because it was his/her _opinion_.

    : contraception wasn’t nearly as widely available or effective then as it has been since about 40 years ago.

    The easiest methods of contraception were available as soon as people knew about the role of semen and menstrual cycles. Both of them were available for EVERYONE, and were free, by the way. The only major problem at that time was religion – but the religion still objects using contraception anyway.

    : probably older than you think.

    Just another useless quote. Not only you assume what I think, but you also assume you might be wrong (so the word “probably”). Is it so hard to reply with a number? For the record, I’m 33.

    : there are many that have seen so much… and learned so little.

    That’s true; even having been in 3-4 relationships which last more than a year still does not guarantee that the person learned from them. However if the person hasn’t even been in such a relationship, I can one hundreed percent tell you that he/she has no clue talking about such relationships at all.

    : even better, she should skip on popping out the tot until she’s good and ready to settle down for the long haul.

    When she marries someone, it is assumed that she is already settled down for a long haul. Again, the divorce rate for the first marriage is 50%, which means that you have 50% chance of success – which is not really bad.

    : the alphas will be too busy fucking the girls who don’t have to leave dates early to pay the babysitter.

    So what? Alphas just fuck girls, they do not pay for their babysitters. But it doesn’t really matter – there are only few alphas around, and they do not make good relationship partners.

  • http://roissy.wordpress.com/ Roissy

    e e e e e e:
    “Your interpretation of this study is incorrect.”

    that’s why i wrote *potential* alpha males. good looks will only get a guy an audition with a girl. since a constellation of traits defines the alpha male, i’d guess the number of alphas in a given male population is somewhat lower than 20%. probably not as low as 5%, though, if by “alpha” we mean a man who is desired by at least 1 out of 10 women wherever he goes.

    1 out of 10 may not seem like great odds, but keep in mind that the majority of men are lucky to be attractive to 1 out of 100 women!

    “justify the evolutional elimination of alphas.”

    alphas aren’t going anywhere. the game may change but the rules stay the same.

    “Alphas do not work on “capturing” a selected woman.”

    oh, they do. they just do it with more style.

    “Alphas do not follow rules. They set rules of the game”

    the rules i’m talking about apply to everyone. reality doesn’t give the courtesy of a pass to alphas. they may be leaders of men but their genetic directive is leader of them.

    “The main problem with your example is that there is just NO two single woman equal in every way.”

    this is the classic fall-back argument. while it is trivially true that no two people are EXACTLY the same, the exercise i set up with my little question illustrates that having a kid as a single woman is a negative hit in the dating market. when a man sizes her up as dating material he will take the kid into account along with whatever other attributes she may have.

    “what you are saying is just your opinion, and far from truth.”

    if you are in a happy relationship, then what i say here won’t matter to you.
    but don’t mistake your personal evidence to the contrary for a conviction that what i say is mere opinion.
    the lonely wails of single moms everywhere attest to the horrors of the biomechanical grindhouse.

    “there is really no difference raising your own child, or someone else’s; if everything works fine, you’ll have more kids anyway.”

    it’s nice to have that option of more kids.
    that is, more of your *own* kids.
    helps the medicine of raising another man’s child go down easier.

    “Even if you marry a miss World, the initial lust based on sex appeal will wear off in following 3-6 months.”

    beauty is necessary but not sufficient for a happy relationship.

    “Is it so hard to reply with a number?”

    it would make no difference.

    “However if the person hasn’t even been in such a relationship”

    i agree.
    that is not me.

    “So what?”

    chicks dig alphas. these are the men they desire regardless of how relationship oriented the men are. and in the merciless thunderdome of human mate preference single moms are gonna find themselves on the short end of the bitterly lonely stick when the men they most desire are pumping and dumping them for childless sexy women.

  • Eastern European

    Roissy,

    : that’s why i wrote *potential* alpha males. good looks will only get a guy an audition with a girl.

    “Good look” on photos is not important at all; almost every alpha I’ve seen had pretty average looks by modern standards. If you look through the history, you’ll find a lot of arguments to prove it as well.

    : since a constellation of traits defines the alpha male, i’d guess the number of alphas in a given male population is somewhat lower than 20%. probably not as low as 5%, though, if by “alpha” we mean a man who is desired by at least 1 out of 10 women wherever he goes.

    I always wonder why people invent their own definitions instead of following standards? The definition of alpha male is well-known – it is “the individual in the community whom the others follow and defer to”.

    : alphas aren’t going anywhere. the game may change but the rules stay the same.

    The studies I’ve read saying they are. Are you referring to other studies, to your own experience, or just sound your dreams? Please clarify.

    : this is the classic fall-back argument. while it is trivially true that no two people are EXACTLY the same, the exercise i set up with my little question illustrates that having a kid as a single woman is a negative hit in the dating market.

    Yes, in your example it is. But, because your example does not represent real life, it has no cosequences in real life. I can even bet for $100 that in your life you will NEVER have such a choice, even similar choice.

    : when a man sizes her up as dating material he will take the kid into account along with whatever other attributes she may have.

    Correct. And, depending in man, it could be either positive or negative attribute. You just assuming that this is always negative; this is wrong. It is like being blonde or brunette; not everyone likes blondes even if you do.

    : but don’t mistake your personal evidence to the contrary for a conviction that what i say is mere opinion.

    Sure. That’s why I have asked your age and long-term relationship experience. The reason is that I share my real world experience, and I’d like to know whether you share _your_experience_, or your opinion (or even dreams). While I understand that my experience could be limited, it is still some experience, and I’d like to compare it with someone’s else, and most likely learn from it. However there is no real reason to compare my experience with someone’s _opinion_ in lack of real LTR experiense. It would be the same as a person tries to discuss plane flying skills while all his “flying” experience was seen in movies.

    : it’s nice to have that option of more kids. that is, more of your *own* kids.

    Again, not every man cares so much about *own* kids. Again you ignoring everything I’ve talked about, including adoption. And again you’re projecting your own opinion on the whole world.

    : beauty is necessary but not sufficient for a happy relationship.

    It is not even necessary. In real world it is actually more difficult to maintain a healthy relationship with a really beautyful person because she is usually spoiled, and it hurts the relationship. Again, everything comes with its own price, and you’ll have somehow to pay this price in relationship.

    : it would make no difference.

    It would make a huge difference. However I know the number already, so it is not necessary.

    : chicks dig alphas. these are the men they desire regardless of how relationship oriented the men are.

    If a girl is not looking for a relationship, this is correct. But we’re not discussing this scenario now. We’re discussing a girl who wants a LTR, and in this case she won’t be picking alpha for this. Alphas are only good for sex, and most of them aren’t good in bed (again, the evolution does not need it, his goal is not to tie up a woman). They are not good for LTR, and she won’t pick them for LTR. Again, we’re discussing a girl who has failed one or more LTRs already, and has learned enough to make a wise choice.

    : when the men they most desire are pumping and dumping them for childless sexy women

    They’re doind the same to the childless women as well. The problem is that alphas do not need a relationship, not that someone is not hot enough.

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  • nunway

    Nunway wrote:

    I came upon this site by chance (I usually frequent politics sites, but Instapundit linked to this). My hope for the future has been restored. I am a baby boomer, and it seems most of you are from younger generations. Although you have different views on the post, you all seem to have a far more realistic view of life’s trade-offs than my generation. Good luck in finding the right balance (which will be different for each of you, and for some will not involve children). As for having kids, I have three in various stages of leaving the nest, and my feelings about them are (i)they are money sinkholes, (ii) at each stage of their lives, they have been royal pains in my ass, (iii) I can’t imagine not having had them, (iv) I am certain that my last thought before I die will be that having been a father was the highpoint of my existence on Earth, and (v) they have given to me far more than I ever could give them. So for those of you so inclined, find the best mate you can and start the “making love without the contraceptives” thing. And good luck!

  • dcfemale

    What about very attractive, kind, fun women who are just single at age 30 because previous long-term relationships did not work out? Just because someone is single at 30 does not mean they were just casually sleeping around throughout their 20s. As for me, I only had 2 serious relationships. One ended because of religious differences and the other ended because my bf became very angry/violent after dating for 6 years. Yes, I could have married him but I refuse to settle for less than i deserve.

    Also, i know another woman who is 30 who was very ill during her 20s. I cant remember the name of the disease. In any event, she is better now and just starting to really date.

    So some 30 year old women are single for legitimate reasons.

  • Anonymous

    Some of what he says is true – but it applies to SOME women not all, clearly.How about those women who have no biological desire to marry or reproduce..who just want to enjoy life as – childfree, marriagefree.They want freedom, career, their OWN money, their OWN lovers.The stresses of marriage, family, children – that ages many of us.Without the physical or emotional stress of all THAT – you feel better and look younger.And you may live longer and happier.Is what I’m saying rocket science?

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  • http://laraslousylife.com LARA

    Sorry to tell you this, but um, WOMEN DON”T NEED MEN ANYMORE TO HAVE CHILDREN. And, USUALLY IT’S BETTER, cause men are whiny bastards when it comes to taking care of the baby, so you’re much, MUCH better off taking all your money that you made, getting PREGGERS however, and then HIRING a NANNY.

    LARA’s last blog post: Gone Fishing.

  • http://www.datersdaily.com/ dating blog

    women should be looking seriously in their 20′s. Not waiting and thinking it will happen when it does. Then you end up a dry old spinster or worse

    dating blog’s last blog post: Top 7 Ways To Give Christmas Gift Hints.

  • Lily

    This is really great advice.

    The only thing is for a 25 year old or below girl, boys her age aren’t keen to commit or settle down, so her options are mainly limited to older men. And you can change a lot from 23 to 33. So then you end up with girls in their mid thirties who are married to older men and disatisfied with their relationship = the cheating women that you men deplore.

  • Anonymous

    @DCFemale

    You spent too much time in a relationship without marriage. If a guy wants to marry you, he will do so before 3 years (unless you are super young)

  • It’s “Je ne sais quoi” ont “Je ne sais pas” fucktard.

  • LadyV

    i’m 26 and just out of college. everyone will naturally have a different take/opinion on this based on their backgrounds, experiences etc., but i believe the majority could totally relate. honest, direct and hits the nail on the head – excellent reminders particularly for today’s independent-minded, strong-willed, career-driven female.

  • Cali Chica

    Wow! Never looked at it from this perspective before… I’m 21 and attractive, and so excited to travel the world (banging only the very coolest and hottest foreign guys on the way) and figuring out what type of guys and what kind of culture I like. I know for sure I don’t want to stay in America or marry an American boy, but without worldly experience how will I figure out what I want?

    But according to this post and all the ‘PUAs’ who comment it, after I’m cultured and have a greater understanding of what I want in life I will be so old and used up no guy will ever think of spending the rest of our lives together?? I find this impossible to believe!

    I am definitely not a feminist and in fact am a ‘broke’ waitress/bartender/aspiring model who does not enjoy college at all. I limit the guys I sleep with as much as possible because I simply don’t understand the point of fucking someone when you have no intention of a long term relationship. I’ve had sex while in love, and decided that is the best and only meaningful way do it. A girl’s got needs of course but there are ways to have sex with a few people and not end up with a petri dish for a vagina if you do it correctly.

    Honestly though, the thought of marriage and kids scares the living shit out of me and in my mind is the equivalent to giving up on life, and the pursuit of your own happiness and adventures. If I end up single and alone at, God forbid, 32 years old, I guess I’ll just say fuck it about the kids thing (I think it’s completely horrendous anyway imagining a HUMAN squeezing out of my small stomach and tight pussy, and have we all forgotten about adoption?) and settle down in some foreign land with a hottie with an accent and high sex drive, and I’m positive I will be happy. Much happier than my female counterparts who will be aging quickly raising crazy kids, frantically trying to lose weight to spark up the sex life with their boring and probably cheating husband, and wishing they had taken the time to explore their own personality and curiosity of the world before settling down into their terrible, boring, and inescapable existence.

    So fuck me sideways if this kind of thinking makes me an unsexy unfeminine American lesbian feminist, or whatever you want to call it. My life plan sounds way more fun…

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for this. I just turned 32 and my boyfriend of 4 years who always said we would get married and have a family, suddenly says he doesn’t want kids and isn’t sure about getting married even though he wants us to spend our lives together. In separate houses. (huh?) I am starting to get some fine lines around my eyes, and really just worried about starting over with someone new. Everyone my age is married by now.

  • Eirini

    Should I feel bad, as a woman, that I kinda agree with this? For american women whose purpose is to find a husband, this is probably the best course of action.

    Disclaimer : no feminist hate on me plz, don’t shove your insecurities down my throat ladies

  • Anonymous

    Saw this comment in youtube and i thought it he nailed it:

    “Ladies, you’re more than welcome to slut it up in your 20s, but ten years later, it’ll be difficult to convince Mr. Right to put a ring on something that other guys got younger, hotter, tighter, and for free.”

  • Gemini

    Roosh, this post was golden (just read it now in January 2013).

    You are absolutely on the money. If I ever have a daughter I would give this to her to read, serious.

    It used to be this way, btw, what you describe (or proscribe). Up until a few decades ago (not sure as I am in my early 30s). Anyways, it’s kinda scary (for the women who don’t know what awaits them if they keep fucking around). This post should be given to all 20 year olds kinda as a warning (aka Cigarette labeling lol).

  • Gemini

    My comments on some of the comments:

    @17 – I agree with you

    For women: their beauty, femininity, caring and supportive personality, plus of course their child-bearing ability is the main and most important attribute they should worry about

    Women can’t have it all that a man can have, simply because of child-bearing, child-raising, and more family-related duties than men. Men and women have different responsibilities. Sorry if some women can’t understand that simple fact of nature

    There is a few years window where young girls should be courted by many potential suitors (that was in the past).. now it’s simply a fact that late highschool and college years are the best years where a girl should probably experiment with dating/seeing many guys so she finds out what she likes, etc but obviously not during her ENTIRE 20s and 30s.

    @49… kinda agree with your statement that people nowadays have it WAY too easy.. people are greedy, they want everything, they don’t want to compromise on the various things in life. It’s like we are living in some kind of golden age where money rains from heavens and people don’t age and every whim is expected to be fulfilled. Historically, war and famine were the order of the day (except for the upper class) and life was “short, tough, and brutish” and you had to compromise.

    @50.. shit that sucks I feel bad for you. Restart!

    @61 Eastern European … good comment, that was some positive stuff from you man! Didn’t think about a single mom in a positive light like this before, thanks.

    @77.. Nunway Thanks for the honesty and I believe you speak the truth. I cannot wait to have kids one day, hopefully with the right woman.

    @87 Cali Chica … You are young so go explore and have some fun but don’t push your luck past your prime (when you still look good)