The Myth Of The Natural

The term “natural” is usually thrown at a guy who has always done well with women. He possesses charm, alpha traits, and the logistical know-how in sealing the deal. He’s so vaulted in the pickup community that a lot of gurus advertise “natural game,” where you, too, can be natural like the naturals.

I believe that just because you see a guy get laid without game, that doesn’t mean he’s a natural. Man has been getting laid for millions of years without conscious study of game, yet the term is thrown out so frequently that even your father could be considered a natural simply for getting with your mom.

If I were forced to agree on what a natural is, it would be a man who’s a prodigy of sex—someone who gets laid way above other men with no formal instruction in game. This means he was not exposed to any 12 DVD “Cocky Humor” sets or seminars in a hotel room with three dozen other guys. You look at him and think, “Wow, he gets laid automatically. He was born to get laid!”

But he wasn’t. Just because he didn’t read a book doesn’t mean he didn’t learn through trial and error like you did, practicing his game on a large number of women. It doesn’t mean that he wasn’t conscious and deliberate with his behavior, incrementally improving his moves and tactics over a long period of time. He has experimented like you have experimented, and he has also connected his attempts with results to figure out what works and what doesn’t.

He may not be obsessive about it enough to log his data into a spreadsheet, but he’s mindful and aware of what he’s doing. He understands the mechanism behind charm and can often turn it on or off depending on what he wants. He has learned the type of humor and story-telling that gets a positive response in women. The last thing you can say about him was that he was born into the world with the “automatic” ability to fuck a lot of girls.

The reason he blows you away isn’t because of his genetics, but because of how early he started. A unique set of circumstances threw him into the sex game years before you, during a time he was lucky enough to be surrounded by giggly schoolgirls. By the time you did your first approach, he had already practiced his game on hundreds of women. At this point you may be thinking, “Well, there have to be guys who were born with it. Look at Mozart!”

Nobody questions that Mozart’s achievements were extraordinary compared with those of his contemporaries. What’s often forgotten, however, is that his development was equally exceptional for his time. His musical tutelage started before he was four years old, and his father, also a skilled composer, was a famous music teacher and had written one of the first books on violin instruction. Like other world-class performers, Mozart was not born an expert—he became one.

If the secret to success is deliberate practice (PDF), then that natural has practiced hundreds of hours more than you have. If he stays in the game then you cannot overtake him, but if he takes a long break, his natural ability won’t seem so powerful after you surpass his skill. A natural is nothing more than a guy who has been in the game longer than you have. It does not necessarily mean he has better tools to succeed.

I once overheard a conversation at a music store. A budding guitarist said, “I’ve been playing for five years. I thought I was getting good but then I came here one day and this group of little boys were blowing me away. I felt so humbled.” Chances are he will have a hard time catching up to the little boys, but that’s okay because he’s not in direct competition with them, just like how you’re not in direct competition with any one man out there. If you do the approaches and pick the right fishbowls to swim in, there will be more than enough poonani waiting for you.

Respect the “naturals” you do find in the wild, but don’t think they’re more special than you. They simply started early.

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  • http://political-economy.com/ Mark

    I could not agree more. The term natural is almost as over used a genius. Have you ever noticed that genius rhythms with another word that begins with a P. Yep.

    This is because people who deem great basic on birthright or admire people who achieve without letting others see them sweat, are not the people who I want to hang out with. There is a falseness and lack of humility about this attitude.

    Genius is someone who takes years of work to perfect their passion. Chess player Gary Kasparov points this out in his book ‘Life imitates Chess’ – that, what does it matter if a natural takes years to be good as opposed to being born that way.
    Part of genius or being a natural is about motivation and the ability to work hard and apply your talents to your passion.
    When women love the idea of being a genius or natural it is like women who love the guy who was born into money. Where is the merit or character building.
    If you want to get girls, increase your natural value and do not be impressed by these mythical ‘alpha guys’, get girls only that look good at the club and not in the light of day. I mean this metaphorically, as well.

  • Evan

    This idea of the “natural” is way overworked, but this is a good post.

  • http://therookiedc.wordpress.com/ The Rookie

    “You unique, you best believe I’m gon’ skeet once I speak
    Spoke, spit, spatter, spat and I macked her just like that
    But it takes years of perserverance and experience to get that cat!”

    -Big Boi, Outkast, Bow Tie

  • Riker

    Well thats a relief.

  • jmanon

    Or, like Mozart, some had a father who knew the score and the son picked it up by modeling himself after his father.

  • http://gameforomegas.wordpress.com Omega Man

    The one thing naturals seem to have in common is having sex at an early age- with my generation this would be 14 probably, I don’t know what it would be for later generations, probably sooner. Experience with women is useless unless it leads to sex, because it’s learning the behavior that leads to sex that is needed.

    The earlier a guy is able to get laid, the earlier he is going to start building the experience needed to have facility with women.

    I think naturals are also aggressive go through big numbers, but they downplay it because as was mentioned someplace just the other day, trying hard with women is not cool.

    @5 jmanon is partly nature and partly nuture, but a big factor as well.

  • http://aaronsholymountain.wordpress.com Aaron

    Surely many naturals start early because they’re naturals. I had a good amount of success through high-school, and it was simply because I was cocky and reckless. My less successful friends went to the same parties I did, used MSN messenger as much as I did, and were around as many girls as me. Then after that it’s self-perpetuating.

  • http://solvemygirlproblems.com Shark

    Phenomenal post man, been preaching this for years. Success breeds success and failure begets failure.

  • The Man Who Was . . .

    Surely many naturals start early because they’re naturals.

    I have to agree with this and strongly disagree with Roosh.

    Two reasons:

    1. I work with teenagers and there are some guys who are just naturally attractive to women. And good number of them are just too young and/or too fucking dumb (you have no idea) to have learned any of it by trial and error. They are just naturally cocky and funny and extroverted.

    2. There is also the phenomenon of the natural who has lost his mojo and doesn’t know how to get it back. I’ve know a couple of these guys. That just wouldn’t happen if they had learned it all by trial and error. There is nothing more pitiful.

    That said there are guys out there who have learned this on their own, bashing it out in the bars for years, figuring it all out by themselves.

  • http://kingcarmo.wordpress.com Carmo

    Agreed, however I think there is a big distinction between a “Natural” and “Natural Game”. I would classify the game that I spit as natural style but I am not a natural by the traditional sense. I rarely used pre-rehearsed openers and routines but rather I know what type of characteristics women find attractive so I incorporate that into the man I am and it automatically comes through in my personality. It’s a pretty liberating feeling knowing I don’t have to remember long routines or use any cheesy opinion openers any more. Granted I still use some material that I developed that consistently work very well but it’s a very small piece of my cumulative game. On a side note, when I dropped using canned material and just went with the flow my notch count went up significantly.

  • Anon

    There are actually naturals, as opposed to persistent-aggressive guys who consciously applied themselves and learned via repeated trial and error.

    The actual naturals are those born with charm, looks and/or extrovertedness. Those qualities attracted many girls to them at an early age and gave them lots of practice.

    The naturals were GIVEN practice, while the persistent guys had to GET practice. Every other guy that is not a natural or persistent is neither given nor gets practice.

    Naturals also have had sex at an early age, almost always by an older girl,i.e., a female mentor. So it is self-fulfilling that naturals find women and sex to be “natural” and do not carry the baggage of female mystery or rejection like average guys.

    Observing tactics, traits, and mindsets of naturals is a good thing to do. But all in all, it doesn’t matter whether you are a natural or not. If you put in the practice and time, you will succeed.

  • http://taoofdirt.wordpress.com Dirt Man

    I think the biggest difference amongst men out there, however they are labeled or how they label themselves, is in their ability to read a woman and know if she’s good to go or not. Your recent post about the girl that seemed to not be into you didn’t make sense to me until I read the comments and you pointed out that she really was into you, just pretending not to be.

    If you hadn’t seen her true interest you might have begged off, but you knew instinctively to keep plowing and you were rewarded. I think this is really the primary thing a man can have or not have. You either see it in her eyes and body language or you don’t. If you see it, you know what to do, or figure it out as you go along, matching move for move with what she does. It’s a dance of sorts.

    The whole “playing hard to get” routine is alive and well for many women. If a woman truly isn’t into it, it’s best to move on. If she obviously is into you but is playing those kinds of games, pretending not to be, or whatever, you have options and can still have your way with her. If she secretly wants you to take her, you can.

  • Basil Ransom

    How about Vince Neil of Motley Crue?

    Your post is apt with regard to most guys considered a ‘natural.’ The term is tossed around too much.

    But still, there may be a precious few with an exceptional ability to attract women with sheer charisma, and not superb looks, wealth or status. That said, I don’t know many, if any, guys like that.

  • http://www.thegmanifesto.com The G Manifesto

    “The reason he blows you away isn’t because of his genetics, but because of how early he started.”

    This is the truth. I remember when I first started reading the Internet about Game. I was absolutely shocked that guys age 18-40 were just learning Game.

    Many people may call me a “natural”, but I am not. I just started learning this stuff when I was about 12-14. So today I may seem a “natural”, but it is just because I have been doing it forever.

    However, I do remember cats who were 12-14 and they were already good with girls.

    Those guys are the real “naturals”.

    - MPM

  • Lee

    There are naturals Roosh. Naturally alpha with high testosterone. But an intelligent man can be better with women if figures shit out and applies himself. Brains can always truimph brawn.

  • Lumiere

    “A natural is nothing more than a guy who has been in the game longer than you have.”

    Disagree.

    Natural does not mean someone who has been at it a long time. I know guys who have been in game for a long time and still suck.

    I do agree that there is a fundamental mis-understanding of what the word natural means however.

    It does not mean he was ‘born’ with it. I agree with you thus far.

    Natural does not mean unconcious competence or unconsious skill either all though most people think it means that.

    Natural = effortless.

    Therefore it is perfectly possible to learn (or to be taught) to be a natural.

  • OGNorCal707

    #11 Anon, wrote:

    “The actual naturals are those born with charm, looks and/or extrovertedness. Those qualities attracted many girls to them at an early age and gave them lots of practice.

    The naturals were GIVEN practice, while the persistent guys had to GET practice. Every other guy that is not a natural or persistent is neither given nor gets practice.

    Naturals also have had sex at an early age, almost always by an older girl,i.e., a female mentor. So it is self-fulfilling that naturals find women and sex to be “natural” and do not carry the baggage of female mystery or rejection like average guys.”

    I couldn’t agree with you more, I know a few guys that I would consider “naturals”, and it’s not that they were born with game, but rather were born with all the tools to “naturally” attract women. Guys that were tall, handsome, athletic, built, and naturally cocky or extroverted. These guys have had women drawn to them, and it’s not like they had to learn the hard way through trial and error.

    I couldn’t agree more with the assertion that “success breeds success”, and failure brings more failure. If you’ve been the archetype “alpha male” that’s been getting laid since you were 14, things will be natural and easy for you, because that’s what you know and experienced.

    I’ve only met one guy that I can say was a “natural” that never learned game and isn’t a typical alpha male type. He’s my older brothers best friend, and is just a naturally really hilarious, witty, charming, extroverted, and out going guy. That said he’s about average in looks, height, and build, and he never really pulled women “out of his league”, he did well with the 5-7 range, but never saw him with better than that.

  • thesecond

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

    An alpha is confident, extroverted, open, has low conscientiousness, and disagreeable. Those are heritable traits. They also have a good sense of humour, which isn’t a heritable trait. They are often tall or good looking, which are heritable traits.

    A natural will have to learn how to deal with women. But they have substantial natural genetic advantages over people with game.

  • Lumberjack

    “If you do the approaches and pick the right fishbowls to swim in, there will be more than enough poonani waiting for you.”

    Correct. There is not really a lot of competition out there as most guys are either busted, incompetent, in a relationship, or don’t approach much.

    I’m neither Casanova nor Mr Universe but I’m getting cute opportunities left and right every day. I just have to seize them and not mess up.

    Sure, learning game theory by reading stuff like Roosh’s blog and books and polishing my looks has helped.

    Here’s a little dirty secret: The hottest chicks are often the easiest ones.

  • Not Joe Rogan

    I agree with Roosh. People aren’t born knowing how to pick up women or play the piano. They may be born with physiological characteristics that may help them, but they’re not naturals. A person born with long, slender, dexterous fingers doesn’t mean they’re a natural at playing piano, they just have a characteristic that would make learning the piano slightly easier.

    The same can be said about handsome guys. They’re not born with the abilities, but rather they have characteristics that help in developing and acquiring their choice abilities.

  • Anonymous

    ^That’s totally Joe Rogan

  • Lee

    After reading the comments here, I guess I have always had a different idea of what people mean when they say natural. I take that to mean naturally alpha. I know a few, and they’re born with it, women are very attracted to them and they aren’t smart enough to know why… that’s a natural.

  • speakeasy

    @18 I agree, many of these traits are heritable. While practice will improve, your genes set the ceiling on how far you improve. Mozart had to practice his ass off of course, but Mozart also had an estimated IQ of 165(genetic) without which he wouldn’t have made the compositions he did. His years of hard work allowed him to bring to fruition his genetic potential.

    For guys that are “naturals”, they have worked, but also have genetic temperaments best suited for sexual competition such as extroversion, impulsiveness, high testosterone and a low anxiety threshold. The opposite – introversion, thinking too much, low testosterone and high anxiety threshold result in beta/omegism in males. Not to say that can’t be overcome, but you are working against your genetic temperament and you’re never going to be as good as the guys with the preferred heritable traits.

    To me it’s not either/or, it’s both.

  • Ubermind

    Naturals are real: they usually are dumb kids who are very confident because they are so dumb and get no punishment for their ignorant behavior in todays pampered society. They often lose their powers later in life when societies brainwashing gets them unless they learn game. They mostly are trough too stupid to do that. Some of them however keep a choosers attitude towards women and keep being naturals also as grown-ups.

  • VI

    If you hadn’t seen her true interest you might have begged off, but you knew instinctively to keep plowing and you were rewarded. I think this is really the primary thing a man can have or not have. You either see it in her eyes and body language or you don’t. If you see it, you know what to do, or figure it out as you go along, matching move for move with what she does. It’s a dance of sorts.

    I wonder if game can teach this. It’s something I’ve always been able to do, but I know some men my age who still suck at it. A girl who I think is down for A2M, my roommate thinks is probably a virgin. FWIW, his game is atrocious.

  • Roosh

    “I wonder if game can teach this.”

    Yes it can be learned through experience. I did not have this ability before.

  • Timothy

    You know what? This post is exactly what Malcolm Gladwell writes about in “Outliers: The Story of Success.” He talks about a formula for mastering whatever it is you’re trying to master. That after a certain amount of hours of practice (I believe he uses the 10,000 hour rule) and the convergence of certain other factors that can’t necessarily be predicted or planned for, you’ll hit a point where things just flow for you. While someone may appear to be “natural,” there was actually a ton of preparation and practice that even the individual himself may not be conscious of.

  • Anonymous

    Natural are naturals because of lucky circumstances early in life that gave them experiences that most guys never had.

    I’ve known 2 guys who were naturals. One had a mother who was a stripper. He was surrounded by hot women who would come over to his house, talk about how they like to suck dick or whatever. His first sexual experience was with a stripper at the age of 10. He was also “cute” when he was young. Not the tough thug “alpha” that a lot of people think of. Just surrounded by women at an early age, so he knew the way women REALLY are, not the way so many people bullshit about how they are.

    The other guy was very good looking, great athlete, more of the natural alpha — liked to get in fights. This guy was banging married 25-year old women when he was 16, and jumping out the window when the husband came home. His dad was a player (they divorced when he was very young because of it). The old many took him under his wing and taught him the way women really are. I’ve seen this guy just mouth across the room to the hottest chick in the place, “I want to meet you” and he would be fucking her an hour later.

    Most guys grow up believing the bullshit in society about how women are. These guys know that women like to fuck.

    So, they fuck.

  • Timothy

    I think a person can be born with certain tools, but you must work to maximize them. The music prodigy may very well be born with a certain aptitude, but if he never sits down at the piano and tries, it would go to waste. Sometimes it’s the prodding from his dad the musician, or the kid wanting to be like dad and deciding on his own, but that kid was in an environment conducive to being successful at music. A man may hit the genetic lottery (tall and good-looking), but if he doesn’t have an outgoing personality and apply some game, he won’t maximize his gifts. A guy with lesser looks may have a great, outgoing personality, have game, and do better than if he didn’t, but might still have limitations no matter what he does.

    I love it when a scrawny motherfucker looks at a dude that’s buff and says, “he’s probably on steroids.” Yeah, maybe…but if he didn’t get in the gym and work like an animal, he wouldn’t get big, whether he’s on the juice or not. Without the work, all he’d have is a bad temper, acne and shrunken nuts and bitch-tits. I have a friend who is a personal trainer. He works like a dog on his calves, but they won’t get any bigger no matter what he does. His genetics have dictated that there are limits to how much that particular muscle group will grow. There are men that have certain limitations that they cannot change, and no matter how much game they study they may not be able to overcome those issues.

  • Snoeperd

    Just read bang, its an extremely well-written step-by-step guide to getting a bang, much less abstract then Mystery Method for example. So i’ll definitely recommend it, you can quote me on this 1.

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  • http://johnnyshornofplenty.wordpress.com/ Johnny Milfquest

    Good point Roosh. Naturals are the autodidacts of poon.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidacticism

  • Squared

    @24 “Naturals are real: they usually are dumb kids who are very confident”

    I agree. I’ve known a few naturals, and the one non-physical trait they all had in common was that they were all as dumb as a bag of shit. Completely incapable of introspective reflection and just generally blissfully unaware of, well, everything.

  • Lumberjack

    #23 speakeasy nailed it.

    Bottom line is you cannot be shy and introverted and expect to bang hot chicks.

    At the bare minimum, you’ll need a change in habits, manners and thinking. Maybe appearance and lifestyle, too.

  • Marian

    @24+33: What about Zan Perrion? As natural as you can get, and obviously a very intelligent guy.

  • Fred

    I used to completely disagree with this, but now I agree completely.

    Let me describe my own experience. I got good with women before ever hearing about game. I used to approach women in a nice way, and got zero results. This wasn’t enough to make me learn anything. My rejections weren’t brutal so the lesson wasn’t clear. I then traveled to another country where I approached women with niceness, and got hard rejections or just scornful indifference. This pissed me off and created a backlash of pride in me. I didn’t care if I got the girl anymore, but I was damned if I was going to be nice. It was just a matter of pride with no ulterior motive whatsoever and with no understanding – yet – that this kind of behavior was attractive to women. But it did not take long for that understanding to come and to realize that I was on to something that was completely counter-intuitive.

    After that there was no looking back – I still had not heard of game but I began fine tuning my approach, seeing what did get a good reaction, and paying attention.

    People used to think I was a natural – heck I thought I was a natural, but the truth was, I had two things going for me; an inner pride that naturally rebelled against too much abuse, and an ability to self-correct in response to my environment ( a surprisingly rare trait I find).

    I knew a few naturals, and when I probed into their history, I found somewhat similar stories. To those here who say some guys were born with certain qualities and are in that sense natural – maybe so, but they too had to learn, fine tune, and adapt. Maybe they had a head start, but there was a process of learning. Learning how to socialize effectively is not an instinct – it depends on adapting your behavior to the responses you get. I can almost guarantee you that every guy at least once in his life in America has tried the nice guy approach for a period of time. You want sex, it is natural to assume that being kind and nice will get it – even if a guy was born with a predisposition of not being nice to women, he will initially try to be nice to them, in a weird inversion of game. It is simply intuitive. Only through a learning process will he change his behavior.

    It may be that not being nice fits much better this persons natural instincts, but at first, he will try niceness because it makes sense. If he’s lucky, he might have a set of friends who already know the score or a wise father or older brother, but that too involves learning.

    Successful socializing is an acquired skill and a learned behavior whatever your innate disposition is, because everyone listens to what society says about how to socialize, and no one simply blindly obeys their impulses, whatever their impulses. The only thing really innate is merely the impulse to socialize – how you do it depends on learning.

    So I no longer believe in the “natural” with women – I believe in guys who are naturally confident or extroverted or whatever, but they still have to go through a learning process to figure out that these qualities are attractive, and how to fine tune them.

  • Gus

    I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree with this post. One is born with a particular set of genes and a certain family environment. The result of these is that it gives you all the tool set to naturally be attractive to women. Of course, one still needs to go out there and put in the effort, but the that effort is really low, in fact I would hardly call it effort.

    I’ll give you my example. Growing up, I was a very self-absorbed kid. I lived in my own world and never cared about anything or anyone else. Being so aloof, girls were really interested in me. I was always this mysterious guy who no one knew what was up with me, and due to that I was really attractive. For many years I didn’t even bother to talk to women etc. because it was also something which I never cared about. Then when I did talk to them, it was so easy.

    The problem happened when I went to a very good engineering school. Spending 4 years in the company of the most hopeless betas the world has ever seen, I too turned into one :( I clearly see the difference because now that I feel that women are an important area in one’s life, so I must try to be good at it. That introduces neediness, which means girls now don’t want to come within 10 inches of me.

    Point being, there are naturals who are given the right genetic tools and right environment, and that has a major effect. After that the work required is too low for it to be even called work.

  • Timothy

    From this point forth, these naturals will be referred to as “Bitch Whisperers.”

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  • Phoenix

    “picking the right fishbowl to swim in”

    This hit home because being in Toronto, it is a bad demographic situation for an average single guy as there are nearly 60,000 more single men than single women in the Greater Toronto area.

  • FreshNanana

    The natural is one who can naturally close the sale. The customer comes I. Wanting something, but doesn’t know exactly what she wants. It’s up to the salesmen to put her in the right car. A.k.a., muy car bitch. And I’m rockin a 98 Toyota son! BMW is coming, had to recess for the recession. N e ways, off topic, but the guy who looks like that gay ass dude from l.a. who gets all the tang cause he’s tall, skinny, slightly muscular, and same haircut as in the.magazines, he might be, u know what, fuck it. Sell your own car bro! He ain’t paying for tour gas.

  • FreshNanana

    Your gas. Sorry! My smart phone is fuckin dumb. Lol! BMW won’t get u laid, but if u know how to sell, it certaintly won’t hurt. Don’t be a jerk! And the guy who says doosh, is the doosh. Diceshh!

  • SuperNanana

    Ok, fresh was gay. Not that there us anything wring with that, however it will now be SuperNanana. Lmao

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  • Nomad77

    I suppose I could be what would be considered a “natural”. Looking back on my life and from what I have read, here is what I think makes me difference than the average guy.

    1. I was raised by women. I grew up in a house hold with a lot of girls and women around. Growing up I hung out more with girls and women than boys and men.

    2. I was introduced to sexuality at a very young age by women: 8. Between 8 and 18 I was very sexual and very confident with women.

    3. Because of No.1 and 2 I have a great love for women. When I look at a woman I don’t think of sex I think of love and I believe this comes across very intently in my interaction with them.

    After 18 I started to feel more responsible about how I should behave around women. I knew I had a power that I could use to take advantage of them and I became self conscious.

    While I believe the whole pickup Game concept is valid and can help you to meet and have sex with women I don’t believe that should be your only objective. Ultimately, whether, you realize it or not you need to feel love much more than you need to have sex. The best sex I have ever had was within the context of love. When a woman love’s you she will gave herself to you in a way that she can’t otherwise.

    Personally, I have never been too concerned about getting a lot of sex from a lot of different women. I have always focused on quality over quantity and love over sex. Just having sex with women and discounting their love is robbing yourself of one of life’s greatest pleasure. I have slept with a lot of women and I could never remember what it was like but I could never forget the love of a woman.

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