When you learn the game from scratch, you can’t help but codify every part of your game and try to make a guess on what is helping you and what is not. You analyze your look, your opening lines, your routines, the method to getting a girl’s number, and so on. Once you start getting laid regularly, all those parts merge into one big blob, resulting in an overall style that fits you and your personality. You concentrate on the whole, but at the same time you take the parts for granted. The problem is that a couple of those parts are absolutely essential, and when you remove them, you no longer get laid.
I began to get sloppy on my city research in the past couple months of my current European trip. For Zagreb, Croatia I ended up renting an apartment for one month in a quiet suburb. I made this huge commitment without knowing a few things:
- The suburb was far away from day game action. My neighborhood had no central square or busy supermarket.
- The club I lived near had girls, but isolation was impossible because groups of them would go there by sharing a ride (since it’s so far). I could only get numbers and kisses.
- It was hard to get girls to meet me in my suburb on dates, so I had to trek via public transportation to the center to meet them for drinks. There was no chance of venue changing to my apartment unless it was a weekend. I calculated I’d have to put girls on a three date program due to my location, something I wasn’t willing to do.
It didn’t help that I arrived in the middle of July, when the only place you’d consistently find people is in the center square in the afternoon, a time I’d either be asleep or typing away on my laptop.
What happened during that month was I didn’t fuck a Croatian girl. Not one. I got two dozen numbers, many kisses, an occasional date that I was reluctant to go on because of my bad logistics, but no Croatian flag. I wasn’t even close. This was right after I made a post saying How To Get A Flag In 5 Days. I felt humbled, that god had read that post as soon as I published it and decided to make me feel like an idiot.
During that month I did find a bar in the center where I was able to drag out a girl on three separate occasions, something I couldn’t do in the club closer to my apartment. I invited all three to my place for a drink once I got them outside. They asked where I lived and when I told them where (about a 20 minute cab ride away), they all scrunched their nose and said it was “too far.” I tried everything to get them to come, even saying I’d pay for their cab ride back, but it didn’t work. I’m sure I would have banged at least two out of those three if I had rented an apartment in the center. Instead, I had to get their number and accept the built-in 50% flake rate that comes from dating. I half-assed the prospects and failed. I was literally getting a 0% bang return on my investment.
It doesn’t matter how often you approach, how tight your game is, or how succulent your kisses are, but if your logistics are fucked, you’re not getting laid. You get to date instead. If you have to take a taxi from the spot you’re meeting girls, you’re getting one-night stands infrequently enough that they will seem like a major event for you. If you can’t say “down the street” when a girl asks where you live, you better hope your phone has enough battery power when you’re forced to get her number. Not only is logistics the biggest indicator of whether you’ll get a one-night stand or not, but logistics alone is the best attractant for girls who want fast anonymous sex.
If you fuck up the logistics like I did in my first month, I hope you have the patience for marathon texting and conversation in boring venues where girls know they have the upper hand since your penis hasn’t yet been inside them. Looking back the past 20 months in Europe, drum-tight logistics was the most consistent variable in me getting fast sex, and forgetting that made for a frustrating month in a place that shouldn’t have been that hard.
In my first 31 days in a Zagreb suburb, I banged zero Croatian girls. When I moved to the center, I banged two within 38 hours. Sometimes you have to fail to make you remember what made you successful in the first place.Tweet Follow @rooshv
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Logistics are defiantly one of the most important factors.
Even if it’s slightly more expensive, I always get a place withing 10 minutes of the main downtown area.
Not only does this make venue changing easier, but it also adds to a girl’s interest in you.
I grew up in the land of terrible logistics, never again. It’s always downtown or bust.
[Pro-tip: It is possible to still pull frequently with poor logistic, if you live in either a huge mansion or castle. I know that in some countries rent for places like those can be rather inexpensive (by American standards) and living in one would create serious attraction.]
Why didn’t you go to one of the girl’s places? Or did all of them live with their parents or far away?
It’s interesting to note that distance can screw up even a guy like you. But what does it say about women that a 20 minute cab ride makes the difference between having anonymous sex and going home to their cats?
[Roosh: Correct, they lived even farther or with their parents. My experiences are making me wonder if logistics is more of an attractant than game theory acknowledges. I feel like once they find out the anonymous sex situation is a lock, they show more interest.]
I’m in a similar place 20 min cab ride. 13 min train ride. What I did was tell the girls meet me at the station. Then I would pick them up and lead them to my car, then drive back to my town. Or you can buy a ticket before hand and when they meet you at the station, simply walk them through the gate, tell them you know a good place. Need to time it so that the train leaves soon, so you kinda of hurry her through the gate onto the train.
What was the name of the Zagreb suburb? U have failed to identify that Croatian girls perceive people from suburbs as big time losers; and even though u were Foreign guy, u prob still fell into that group in their eyes..glad u have figured it out..
Is book BANG/DONT BANG Croatia in store? Also, you should visit Belgrade, best looking girls in the Eastern Europe, along with Novi Sad..
If you had a car, do you think it would have made a difference?
[Roosh: Assuming parking was close to the venues, yes it would help a lot. I can already see success with a line like "How about before I drive you home we stop by my place for a quick drink? I just bought a bottle of.... "
In DC I didn't feel logistics were so awful because I usually had a car. It hurt, but not as much to where I realized it's as important as I believe it to be today.]
Was in Croatia in July with Krauser, we were close to jelly square in our separate hostels/apts and you’re right that logistics do make a big difference. even in a big town such as london with good transport links it can put some girls off if you’re living 20 miles away frmo them
Jarun neighbourhood probably? Too far away.
Very true, I live just across the tunnel from Manhattan but this has been a major hindrance in closing. For instance, recently after the third date where make out was constantly happening being forced by the girl not me, I could not convince her to go to my place. At times, they even ask how to get there blah blah blah, but hard to actually get them go there. What happens is next date, date number 4, and make outs. Lesson learnt.
Roosh, kudos to you for your honesty.
What makes a great guy is not always hitting the nail on the head, but realizing his mistakes so that he can make the next swing better.
Like I said in my last post, the thing that makes your blog great is that you’re willing to admit where you messed up. I learn more from guys who messed up and are intellectually honest about it than guys who only describe their hits.
Keep on doing what you’re doing and admitting where you messed up.
Have this problem too but I solved this by going to their place. I have weaseled and scummed my way into their apartment countless times by figuring out where they live through some innocent banter via text before the date about their location that ends up providing me with golden information about where they live. Instead of just getting a neighborhood, I can usually lock down their location to within a 2 or 3 block radius. From there it’s drinks, more drinks and the, “May I use your bathroom” line.
Here’s a sample text exchange recently that led to a first night bang on enemy territory:
Her: yes, good idea. Let’s get drinks. Have a fab place
Me: I’m born and bred from NY so I have a fav place in every neighborhood. I probably know more about your neighborhood than you do. Where are you?
Her: E. village
Me: ah you must be excited about all the NYU students moving in this week and using their fake ID’s at your favorite bar. Unless hooking up with 18 yo college boys is your thing.
Her: Eww shut up! I’m south of all the NYU bars so I don’t think I will be seeing too much of them.
From this I was able to grab an approximate location of where she lived. The bar I picked turned out to be 1 block from her apartment. We drank there, grabbed wine from the liquor store up the block, watched funny videos on her iPad, and I went in for the kill.
All girls are secretly whores is one truism, but it is also very likely that they are “lazy” whores.
Logistics is the massive elephant in the living room that no one in pickup wants to address.
Your place should be at a 5 minutes taxi ride from the bar, or less than 5 minutes walk down the street or your car should less than a block away. If it’s more complicated than that, you’re SO not getting laid.
They don’t like to walk or wait for a one night stand, even if they’re actually the ones getting lucky.
Ubber Cab in DC solves all these problems. You don’t tell them where you live. You say “lets get out of here” and you walk them out.
Uber has a fucking black town car waiting outside for you because you ordered in on their app and it tells you when it arrives. The fact the car is outside waiting puts urgency in the moment and causes her to act, she loves the feel of getting in a town car… you hop in the car… tell the driver… “9th and C, Souteast” and off you go.
I don’t miss anymore because of logistics and the town car nonsense is a pure panty dropper. Best 20 bucks you’ll ever spend. Highly recommend it.
I pulled the hottest piece of ass right in front of everyone at The Hamilton a few nights ago. I wanted to the dickhead cockblocking bartender the finger as I walked her out the door, but i didn’t.
Black town car sitting outside the door and me walking a smoking hot blonde out of the bar and right into it. We get home. White wine is in the fridge nice and cold. Open up the bottle, sit on the couch, put my hand down her pants and off wee go.
It’s always possibe to bang women from your area, even if you live in the suburbs, but the quality of girls wil be dramatically lower than if you live in the center with better logistics. I live in the suburbs and mostly bang cougars who make up the easiest and best represented target, while in the city I used to pull hot 20 somethings. I’ll probably be moving back to the city.
Great post #11 – “All girls are secretly whores is one truism, but it is also very likely that they are “lazy” whores”
Yes, they want the process to be as seamless as possible. They want it to seem “perfect”. Any logistical problem will be perceived by them as an imperfection.
Logistical problems kill their little fantasy and force their mind to deal with reality, when that happens, the pussy dries up. Seamless logistics allow the fantasy to continue uninterrupted.
“if logistics is more of an attractant than game theory acknowledges”
I think this is absolutely true. It doesn’t necessarily make you more attractive but it makes the whole situation more attractive, so by default making you more attractive at that moment.
When they are thinking about fucking you, they are in a horny sexual state of mind, a logistical problem forces them to stop fantasizing and start thinking. Once she starts thinking,the hamster starts spinning and the their sexual momentum can be killed.
Seamless logistics allow the fantasy to continue smoothly, “oh my god, it was perfect, he literally lived 5 minutes away, we were in his shower naked 5 minutes after leaving the bar”.
They see logistical problems as a sign from god that they shouldn’t go home with you. In the fairy tales, movies, and romance novels there are never any logistical problems. Simply put, bad logistics disrupt her mind state.
Also, logistical problems interfere with her plausible deniability. If you love 5 minutes away she can say she just went to see your apartment and have a drink. If you live 30 minutes away, everyone knows she was going to fuck.
Whats the old saying – The longer the cab ride the less chance your getting laid..
“Uber has a fucking black town car waiting outside for you because you ordered in on their app and it tells you when it arrives. The fact the car is outside waiting puts urgency in the moment and causes her to act, she loves the feel of getting in a town car… you hop in the car… tell the driver… “9th and C, Souteast” and off you go. ”
When do you order it? When you know that you have the girl hooked?
Also, I’m curious what guys here have to say about those who live in places with a car culture. Like the suburbs of New York, South East Florida or LA?
Strategy is for amateurs. Logistics is for professionals.
And thanks for your honesty
I come from Rome and the logistical is a very serious issue: you are a slave of the car, since public transport sucks and taxis are expensive, but even with it you have to drive for 20+ minutes to reach your house.
No wonder that many roman guys, including myself, found easier to drive & park in to dark spots and have sex in their cars…
The suburbs. It just makes same night’s a much lower frequency affair. It doesn’t mean they don’t happen. They just happen much less often and with lower average quality of women than in the middle of a major city or a block away from a bar in a college town. Michelin’s comment about picking up cougars in the suburbs is perceptive.
Thinking about this from a woman’s perspective – it helps explain why professional women in New York City will have many more lifetime lays than their counterparts in New Jersey.
Meanwhile, from a beta’s perspective, the crucial point is this: suburbanization only worked when feminism, no-fault divorce, and hypergamy hadn’t destroyed marriage and the nuclear family.
In a feminist society, suburbia is tantamount to enforced celibacy for beta men.
This may help explain why cities are once again attracting young people and why many are becoming gentrified.
[...] The Importance of Logistics – Great article by Roosh on why good logistics are the key to getting ONSs Definition by Vince Lin [...]
I have long held that logistics is very much under-rated… even by those that say it’s important.
As others mentioned above. Easy logistics = everything proceeding easily without thinking. Women think emotionally so this reflects on you.
If I only knew this when I was young.
In expensive US cities the difference in rent between a prime spot and a burbs spot is going to buy you a few hotel stays a month. It’s a huge difference. So just walk her to a four star hotel and check-in. Say you have points that are going to expire and you were going to crash there anyway. I had a friend who was checking in to the mayflower in DC once a month.
[Roosh: Living in the suburbs is cheaper but you have to get a car, which usually makes it more expensive than the city. But if your job is in the suburbs then living in the city with a car is the most expensive.
Dodge Caravan for the win!
Also a girl told me in Brazil, they have car garages for rent by-the-hour specifically for sex, complete with washrooms.
I’ve encountered the phenomena of girls wanting sex so bad/thinking you’re so hot, they’ll travel for half an hour in a taxi with you to get some dick. Sometimes even drive out to see you later in the week without much effot.
Western women only?
Fast sex can constitute rape, if the girl is too drunk or passed out to give consent.
Agreed. When I moved to the downtown of my city I banged more girls in the first 3 months than the previous 3 years rotting in the suburbs. Worth it.
So living in the suburbs means that you will have to wait to dates 2-5 ish. OK. But if you have tight game should that slow you down in the end? If you’re approaching constantly and working the funnel you should still be banging your new girl or two a week. You just won’t get them on the ONS or the first date lay.
Croat here. In Croatia, living in suburbs makes you almost a “peasant” (foreigner or not), and cuts your attractiveness in half.
In Zagreb, good neighborhoods to stay are Centar, Šalata, Zrinjevac, and Pantovčak.
Good call. A buddy was just telling me about the whole uber-car thing the other day. Having car service on call is definitely some G shit. I think getting dropped off to meet a date like that (making sure she sees it of course) could also leave a strong impression as well. Been looking to incorporate town cars into my lifestyle.
Great example of tight logistics when you have no other option but to always go for the bang at the girls place. I live with my parents and sisters currently so I can’t really bring a girl back PLUS I live in the suburbs. I’ve defaulted to doing the exact same thing you do.
This is an interesting subject. I have always been super careful about logistics (usually try to be about five minutes walk from the meeting points to my place), however I couldn’t failed to notice that in some cities I have done very good with very bad logistics.
For instance in Managua and Guayaquil, my logistics where terrible! (20+ mins taxi cab to a meeting place or mall, drink there and then pull the girl back to my spot in a bad area of town), however my average success rate was a steady 3 girls a week and usually they stayed overnight and the morning (and YES, despite what is mostly seen on the streets, these cities have very nice girls if you put some effort in digging for them).
Now, the other way around .. In other similar cities having the best logistics possible I’ve had it really hard! Why? … I guess the factor other than how easy hooking up in a particular city is for your type of game and other variables, is if you are in a cold or a hot streak (but how to control this???). Sometimes for a period of time luck just doesn’t cooperate (I have had the mother of a girl passing away just hours before our arranged meeting, with the story veracity confirmed … then a sequence of similar frustrating situations one after the other for days or weeks), then suddenly things just improve. The truth is that game as everything in life is just highs and lows, but if we recognize these low cycles I believe we can plan better accordingly (sometimes not going against the wind is wiser). This whole thing may be too obvious, but surprisingly is often overlooked.
In any case logistics, logistics, logistics!!!
[...] The Secret To Fast Sex [...]
[...] comment on roosh’s site: Great post #11 – “All girls are secretly whores is one truism, but it [...]
20 minutes is more than enough time for the alcohol to wear off and the encounter to go from too-hot-to-think-straight-rip-my-clothes-off-NOW to oh-gods-am-I-really-trapped-out-here-in-the-suburbs-with-this-gross-guy-mauling-my-face? A girl who considers a one-night stand wants a fast escape route in case she suddenly sees you in a new light. If you can bail out and leave on your own (own feet, own money, etc., but not dependent on the guy to get you home) right up until the last minute, your chances of doing something you’ll later regret go significantly down and paradoxically you end up willing to do more than you would have if you didn’t feel like a safe escape option was available.
if you want to get laid like a rockstar, do what Paul Janka did and get them to come to the door of your apartment, tell them you’re not ready and persuade them to come up ‘While you’re getting ready’. Eventually tell them you have drinks at home and can chill at yours… Then escalate and close…
Never tried this tactic myself, but it seems like a flawless method of getting laid in large numbers.
I would say Gaming girl is 1 quarter of the battle. The other 3 quarters is logistics. If your logistics are bad, then no amount of Game will save you.
Roosh, why don’t you get an RV? Or better yet, a food truck ;)
I use the “I want ice cream” gambit.
Tell the girl you want ice cream. She asks “where?” You say “I know a great place. Come on,” and lead her.
Grab a cab and tell the driver your address. She may or may not figure out where you’re going but it doesn’t matter.
Sometimes when you’re walking to the door she’ll say “Wait a minute! This isn’t an ice cream shop!” Say “Maybe not, but I guarantee it’s the best ice cream in town.” Don’t justify. Hold your frame. Enter for the lay.
Works like a charm every time.
Thanks for the advice roosh
Fuck it, I’m getting a helicopter.
I got a car at age 19 when I was clueless about getting girls. Within a few weeks I was getting invites to parties/clubs I didn’t know existed because I could give rides. Game changer.
What’s a guy to do when his cock doesn’t cooperate?
Great comment Moses. Why not also have a pint or two of some ice cream in the freezer, just in case she’s really set on it.
I hate driving, but logistics with cars and girls on second dates is almost too easy. This works best on weekdays for me:
1. Meet girl at a bar out of convenient night-walking distance for her. If she buses there, perfect. Nobody ever wants to bus home.
2. Pace yourself. have 3 drinks but slip in a lighthearted comment or two on only being able to have a few to ‘play it safe’ to avoid a DUI.
3. Venue change after 2-3 drinks. Key. Show a hesitation with other bars. Offer to go back to your place (not far) ‘for a couple more’ before sobering up to give her a ride home. Open a bottle of wine at home, and boom.
For some reason this works too well. Women completely drop their guard and are a lot less hesitant to come over knowing I’m ‘going to stay sober’ enough to drive them home. I think it’s effectiveness will only increase once winter rolls around.
I just wanted to thank you for everything. Your day bang book and your blog have completely changed my life. I got my first bang from the second approach. I live on Campus and I find your openers extremely helpful. Furthermore, I’m Persian and I think you are Persian too! I am really proud of you man!
Take care and keep up doing the good work!
I have already written one comment on one your posts to appreciate your teachings. But here, I would like to explain how your books and material have helped to change my life, and in this process, I want to point out several strategies that I have come up by myself after trying your materials. I think this should be very helpful to guys with similar situations to mine (international students).
First of all, I’m 25 right now, I am a graduate student from Middle East, I look fairly handsome and almost every girl thinks that I am from Spain. I started game about two years ago when I came to North America, unfortunately, at that time I had not read your books, so most of my approaches were during the night. Since most graduate students are chumps, I had to go alone and since it was the first time that I was going out at nights in my life (in my country we don’t have clubs and I picked up girls in shopping malls) with not so much experience, I couldn’t pull top notches. I had a few one night stands here and there, but I was not satisfied with the quality of the girls. Then I realized that I can easily make out with super beautiful girls in clubs where I don’t talk to them, but once they ask me where I’m from, and I tell them the truth, they suddenly start to act cold, and even when I get the numbers, the flaking rates would be extremely high. So I decided to tell them that I am Spanish (I look very Spanish), it was effective to get one night stands several times, but still, I have not been to Spain and my Spanish was worse that Hola level! I also realized many girls could speak Spanish better than me and this killed the interaction. All of this happened two years ago, but then I met a girl that I really liked, I told her I’m half Spanish, but haven’t been in Spain, we hit it off and we were dating for two years and recently got separated.
In the process of two years that I was living with my girlfriend, I became highly interested in Buddhism and spirituality. I read more than 100 books on different subjects, practiced different schools of yoga, and became close to an enlightened being! I broke up with my girlfriend and decided to try game again, this time I was lucky enough to surf on y our page. Your elderly openers completely changed my approach to girls. Now please understand my situation which didn’t look very desirable:
I am middle eastern
I don’t have cool friends
I haven’t been uptodated in the music that girls listen to
Because of my practices in meditation, I don’t drink
I live on shitty room in one of the residences on the Campus, my roommates are assholes and they live their pubes all over the washroom
I overcame all these shortcomings! As follows:
I saw that practicing meditation and being mindful of my feelings and thoughts, has been extremely helpful, it seems that I am no longer affected by approach anxiety, whenever fear arises, I just look at it and diminishes into nothingness, in a matter of a few seconds. It has also helped me, to put myself into a hypnotic state, that whenever I’m talking to a super hot babe, I feel no different that talking to a frog… I look absolutely untouched by her beauty.
Additionally, all of these 100 books that I have read give me very powerful tools to shoot the shit with girls. I move into kino very easily, when I tell her that I have learned how to read auras from this famous teacher in Antaya when she was 107 years old. And believe me, though I do not believe in any of this shit (I’m a scientist), I have picked up phd students who believe my words with all of their souls! Girls dig the spiritual stuff because of their worthless and shallow life, and they are in search of a man who has found happiness, and that’s me, or at least, it’s who I pretend I am! And I pull it off very easily.
I bang most of the girls on the second date, when I ask them to come to my place for a clean energy reading of their bodies. I teach them vipassana meditation and in this process in order to help them feel their sensations, I touch all of their body, and after 20 minutes we are making out like animals! And the sex starts after 1 hour usually. But if I had kissed her earlier, before bringing her home, we can jump to sex in 20 mins.
So right now, not only that I don’t drink, I ask the girl on the first date, not to drink in the next few days so that it purifies her body for my final energy reading. I only do cold reading, and feed them what they have told me, and use my knowledge in body language, to find out a thing or two on her. I also tell her several stories that how my readings have turned out to be true on the others….
I’m practicing more and more everyday. In lunch breaks, I go on Campus and start hitting on girls. I feel that I’m improving everyday, and it’s all due to your amazing books and advice. So thanks a lot bro!
So that’s my story,
In two words: Animal Kingdom
You men behave like complete animals.
Get your degree today on
Men Behavior Gone Wild
As a few other people pointed out, in the Balkans there’s an immediate drop in perceived value for people living in the suburbs, as opposed to the city center. The word for villager (“seljak”) is an insult meaning the opposite of cool/hip, and people in the suburbs are often recent arrivals.
The problem in Zagreb is not the “20 minute taxi ride” as much as the “Wait, I’m about to go to that redneck suburb with some random guy I just met”.
Then I was “raped” by the chick who wanted fast sex and willingly spread her legs on Saturday night. I had been drinking, and did not officially consent. I should have her arrested. Thanks for the tip.
Of course I won’t REALLY have her charged for raping me, because I am a Man and have something known as “integrity”. Look it up.
[...] drinking themselves retarded and stumbling out at three AM with whoever’s game (or merely logistics) were tightest that [...]
Much easier to think “it just happened” if she doesn’t have to cool down in a taxi for 20 minutes first.
[...] read a post by Roosh several months ago talking about location and game from a logistical standpoint. I’m moving on [...]
How about if you live with parents but your parents are cool and are happy for you to bring girls back
Four words biatch HIV
[...] wrote the Bible on logistics with his landmark post The Secret To Fast Sex, stating in no uncertain terms that It doesn’t matter how often you approach, how tight your game [...]
I got more money than flexibility, and have a place in the DC suburbs. I’ve had some luck with “get them to verbally agree to sex, put them on the fucking train, and keep them in state”–they don’t realize they’re on the train to the middle of nowhere until they’ve already committed.
Some options not discussed….
Have you tried booking a hotel room somewhere at the start of the night and running out of that, maybe splitting it with another guy (two beds)?
Have you tried splitting the rent on a studio with a bunch of other dudes for something more long-term? “Some friends” did this in high school and it worked well.
Push for their place rather than yours.
Ah HELLO ??? Skip all the paranoia and fretting about where to live; only small-minded shallow stupid girls let that bother them . . hey guys do this it works everytime: locate as many nice modest hotels within proximity to where your watering hole (the bar)call them to see if there are vacancies and the prices etc . .. and THEN when its time to go and she wants to know about your place simply say, “I’m new in town and haven’t found a steady place yet, so I stay at XXX HOTEL around the corner or I say at a few of them nearby until I can find a more permanent place” . .it works everytime. Just wait here for a moment and go book the room then come back and say ok let’s go and if you’re smart you have the bottle already with you somewhere . . it works great and then you may just get help from the local girl as to what area to rent in and then she knows where you live -pussy du jour !!
I meant when she is in the car of the taxi ask if she minds going in with you or if she prefers to lay low and wait in the taxi.She will tell you .. then just book it and together go up or have her wait in the taxi . .then come back and walk up . .no biggies and it has worked for me all over the world.