In a perfect world, girls would be feminine, beautiful, and sexy. They would insist on treating you with respect. They would feel honored to spend an evening with you in a bar having drinks with their cell phones turned off. The reality is a little different. Through no fault of your own, women may show up on dates only to treat you like scum. In that case you should get up and leave. Here are three scenarios you should watch out for:
1. She is more than one point uglier than her profile pictures (for internet dates). We all know that a girl will put up photos of herself that might as well have been created using the latest Hollywood CGI technology. These days you must do an automatic one point deduction from how she looks online. But if she’s two points uglier in person, maybe due to massive weight gain or photoshop trickery, you should not proceed with the date. She’s conning you, hoping that you’ll let her blatant deception slide to give her one or two hours of entertainment that she couldn’t get by honestly representing herself. Dont let her get away with it.
If this happens to you, say, “You don’t look like your photos. I’m not happy you tricked me so I see no need to proceed with this date.”
2. She talks on the phone for more than one minute. It’s not terrible if a girl answers the phone to tell the caller she’ll ring back, though it would be better if she sends the call to voicemail. I’ll let it slide once or twice if she apologized immediately afterwards. But if she answers the phone and then has a unhurried conversation that you time as being over a minute long, she doesn’t see you as a real man and has no intention of sleeping with you. This is especially the case if her phone conversation has laughter, a sign that she has settled in for a chat. She does not at all care that you look her servant, waiting for her valuable attention.
If this happens to you, stand up, seek out the waitress, and ask for the check. When the check comes, demand her share of the bill. Make payment and say, “You can talk on the phone all you want now. Have a good night.” Cap it off with a smile. Bonus points if you walk to the bar and have a drink at your leisure to catch up on your Kindle app reading.
3. She brings someone else to the date. If it was clear that you were supposed to have a 1-on-1 date and she brings someone uglier than her, she sees you as a chump who will take whatever miserable situation she puts you in. This is more common in South America than the States.
If this happens to you, say, “You didn’t tell me you were bringing someone.” Let her give you some lame ass excuse about how she just found her friend or “cousin” on the street. Then say, “Okay well I hope you two have a lot of fun.” Smile then leave.
As for other cases, the most common that will come up is texting. The correct move is a little tougher to call since she will be disrespectful for only 20 second bursts. Personally, if I need to send a text I wait until I go to the bathroom so it doesn’t disturb the flow of our conversation, but some women don’t give you this courtesy. You’ll want to drop some hints that you don’t like it and see if she stops the behavior. Say one of the following two things during her second text attempt:
- “Do you want to take a ten minute break so you can catch up on your text messaging and Facebook updates?”
- “I see you have a lot of important text messages to send. Is this a bad time for our meeting? We can try again in a few days.”
Say it with a concerned look on your face, as if you really want to give her time to text message the world. If she doesn’t get the hint and continues to text after that, she’s basically telling you that you have zero worth in her eyes. Get the check and bounce.
A date is an implied social contract that two individuals will share a non-interrupted conversation over food or drink. If she breaks that contract through deception or disrespect then you are under no obligation to continue. If you value yourself, you should end it before you spend any more time or resources into a woman who is not treating you like a human being. There is no game move here to salvage the prospect, for it would be like trying to sculpt a turd into a beautiful statue. Delete her number from your phone and move on.Tweet Follow @rooshv
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Oh, man this reminds me… No. 3 happened to me on a home dinner date. It our 3rd date so I was locked and loaded, but about 30 mins into it some guy shows up to her apt. She had invited this fellow over and I remember sticking around for a bit with the foolish and desparate hope of still pounding her poon.
Soon, however, she was giving him signs of interest. I felt betrayed and sick to my stomach, so I made an excuse to meet up with friends for drinks. I scrambled out of there, keeping my composure as best as I could maintain (I ended up losing my shades at her apt).
She tried txt messaging/calling for about a week after, but I was so angry at her and never ever wanted to hear from her again. A part of me felt dignified since I completely walked out even after putting about 8 hours of work in including a sexy candle light massage and a makeout session. But even so, it was the most disrepesctful and humiliating thing that has ever happened to me since I got into pick up, and it was hard to keep going after that.
Moral of the story: Be ready to walk out on the seduction at any time. Provided your target is an anti-social whore trying to get double stuffed with no prior agreement.
Great post, Roosh. Half the battle is knowing when to fold ‘em and walk away to avoid wasting further time, money and effort.
So let me get this straight…
“If this happens to you, stand up, seek out the waitress, and ask for the check. When the check comes, demand her share of the bill. Make payment and say, “You can talk on the phone all you want now. Have a good night.” Cap it off with a smile. Bonus points if you walk to the bar and have a drink at your leisure to catch up on your Kindle app reading.”
Demand her share of the bill from her? So if the bill is $20 for two drinks, one for each of you, you demand $10 from her, then pay put down your share (another $10), then leave it and walk off?
Or do you put down your $10, and then demand she pay the rest, then walk out? (thus not giving the full amount to the waitress, implying that she will have to leave an additional $10 of her own volition?)
By the way, I never put up with texting . That shit pisses me off. My girlfriend has completely quit doing it around me, which is nice.
Re: texting and calls
I usually try to preempt a situation like the one Roosh described. Before the date even begins, I make a point to remove my smartphone from the table and say something like, “I am not one to stare at my phone all night. I’ll leave the frantic texting to 16 year old Japanese girls.”
This tactic sets the tone for the date, putting you in the position of a more mature leader.
If they can’t resist checking their phone or taking a call, then you know they have problems.
If they don’t apologize, and since you’ve already given them a soft warning, then you can easily use one of Roosh’s lines and exit the date.
“She brings someone else to the date.”
I don’t know anyone how has actually been subjected to this—are women really so terrible as to actually pull something like this?
Back in my beta dinner date days, I took a girl out to an Indian restaurant. She told me that we had to hurry up because she had another date at 9 PM. I’m glad that (even back then) I made her split the bill and left.
Good lesson. I just walked out on someone the other day actually. Went to a bar and this girl wanted to say hi to someone at an adjacent table. She was gone for about 5 minutes. I finished my vodka, paid for my drink and left. 2 minutes is acceptable, but I didn’t come to a bar to drink by myself. Now she won’t stop texting and apologizing.
@7 dragnet Ha!!! My friend you would be surprised my sister had friends who would boldly show up with there cousins and sisters to a date and let a sucker pop off on the date and spend his hard earn cash cause the guy was stupid enough and enough of a sucker not to just have the presence of mind to just say ‘you know what you ladies came together you guys enjoy each other time be good’ These gaggle of bitches my sister use to share with me use to proceed and order every fucking thing on the menu, lobster of course with shrimp and another aray of expensive shit……. They would then find in excuse to leave and laugh there buts off while they were making their way to the car…… if a girl shows up with anybody on your date she dosen’t respect you and she thinks your in idiot, she has put you in the chump category and you are not getting any my friend……
Amendment to number 2: Extra bonus points if you walk to the bar and start chatting up another woman.
As for texting, here’s what you do: Say in a neutral, slightly curious tone, “What kind of phone is that – Can I see it for a sec?” She hands you the phone. You turn it off, and slip it in your pocket. Cockblock dismissed. It’s a ballsy move that will get her wet.
I did this to the hottest girl I met online, on a first date, and she gave me tons of shit for it at the time, to the point of berating me. I even doubted the wisdom of doing it for a moment. But I held up a firm front, “Yeah, guess I’m an asshole”, and we fucked that night.
another great post roosh. I frequently walk out on women if their not acting up to my standards. And this attracts women even more.
On my last date, she kept texting on her phone nonstop. I sat there like an idiot. If it happens to me again, I will just stand up and leave.
I usually roll with a cell phone jammer. Problem solved
of course you split the bill.
who the *&^% wouldn’t ask the bitch for her share of hte bill.
any dude who even hesitates to ask her to split the bill has bigger f’ing problems than this.
grow a pair and state in plain terms that she should get out her share of the bill, ask for it, and bask in the awkward-ness.
remember when you’re a kid, ad you completely tune out your mom bitching at you/nagging you? learn to do the same with the childish tantrums of girls now.
Never be afraid to fire a girl…….. She is acting like super cunt fire her ass, fuck her best friend or just go get another one that simple…..
You have really good “dating” advice bro. I wish you well.
Is there a way to preempt this bullshitary?
Thats not dating advice player thats life advice someone takes you for granted move the fuck on…..
Those are the obvious indicators of a need to eject.
In my experience, if she mentions her ex-boyfriend, or some guy she knows, than it’s usually a no-bang.
There is a difference between a girl who turns to text because she is not invested in the date and a girl who whips out her iphone because she is nervous.
When the hamster gets spinning, the phone comes out. This usually happens if there is an awkward silence in the conversation, or if you go to use the bathroom, and can rapidly destroy the game.
The best way to prevent it is to have your material down so well that you don’t give her a chance to check her phone, even if she wants to. You’ve got to get her so wrapped up in the conversation that she’s forgotton about the phone.
Best advice. You are the man.
“The best way to prevent it is to have your material down so well that you don’t give her a chance to check her phone”
‘Your material’ Are you retarded? You’re supposed to have a normal social interaction with a girl and enforce your expectations, you’re NOT supposed to put on a puppet show for her.
There’s no need to put on “your material” for any girl unless you’re a neurotic fag who’s desperate to impress her and you consider yourself lucky to be in her godly presence. What’s next? Are you going to put on a comedy act for her so you can bask in her Majesty’s presence for a little while longer?
You = jester/ clown
Her = the Queen
Jester needs ‘good material’ to impress and please his Queen
Do you get it now? Stop thinking in terms of impressing her. You owe her nothing.
Roosh is right but he doesn’t go far enough. Latinas in general will bring someone extra on a date far more often than non-latinas. I’ve had that expdrience recently with a Colombian. When I went out with a new-to-DC Chilean she kept asking if any of my friends would join us. Later she’d only invite me out in group settings.
Calm down sport. After you’ve actually been on lots of dates with women you’ll realize that you end up bringing up the same kinds of stories and the same topics a lot of the time. This isn’t a bad thing, its just a thing. You get better at telling these stories and it leads to more efficient lays.
Enforcing your expectations is good, and so is leading a smooth interaction with a girl using conversational finesse and interesting anecdotes.
Why are you calling him a neurotic fag? You obviously are bringing some emotional baggage with you here.
Your name-calling and emotional reaction reminds me of a girl.
Daaym Tellem – harsh! Can’t say I disagree though.
Use a little lube next time eh?
My favorite part of the post!
Bonus points if you walk to the bar and have a drink at your leisure to catch up on your Kindle app reading.
My favorite part of the post!
Just goes to show you just how contaminated westernized and westernizing are becoming. They are all attention whores with a Paris Hilton wannebee mentality. They all think they are celebs always uploading images of themselves via the social networking technologies. I suspect we will see the average female drop everything in a moment to answer their smart phone or respond to a messege somebody posted on their facebook page.
Wake up guys! Esther Vilar was correct; women simply do not care for men. Females are just too narcisstic to give a shit about anyone else.
My usual tack in these types of situations is to assume a condescending air of superiority and calmly call her out on it. Ergo,”You know that’s really rude, right?” Inner monologue,”poor girl doesn’t know how to properly socialize.” If she tries to argue that it isn’t, I’ll usually drop a snarky comment like,”yeah, how to win friends and influence people…” or ”sure, cause nothing screams class like texting on a date,” where I basically imply that she’s a social retard (if she’s doing this type of stuff, then she is). I feel like this navigates the happy medium between being a pussy and going all Chris Brown, while giving off the vibe that I have higher social intelligence/status than she.
Great advice; it reminds when I was going on a date with this girl.
And she was trying to bring her friend and her friends son to the movies with us.(what the fuck)
I firmly told her no, and she agreed to come with me alone,which attracted her.
So I didn’t need to bounce.
Shocked that women bring others to a date. How rude!
I have not had this happen, but on a date if a girl straight up was being rude, etc, I would stroll on out of there. Not pay for anything. But my vibe is more aloof and not caring about anything. She can pay my half.
With cell phones, if anyone around me does it I usually say, “ohh boy, I must be terribly boring…” playfully and then ramble about obscure art history. Is that game?
Hey Roosh, check this – an honest article on HuffPo by a woman on why women aren’t married. I think you can actually get behind most of this.
For the lazy, here are the reasons she gives:
1. You’re a Bitch.
2. You’re Shallow
3. You’re a Slut
4. You’re a Liar.
5. You’re Selfish
6. You’re Not Good Enough.
I distinctly remember American chicks doing this, but I’m a bit hazy on the Western European girls I dated.
What has been your experience in Europe? Any difference between Western and Eastern?
no, no rooshiepoops, you have it alllllll wrong, I’m surprised a Male Feminist Extrordinaire™ has to tell a PUA™ this—she is sh*t testing you….
you need to play by her rules or the only sex you will have is with your own hand, don’chya know it is men who pursue and womyn who rule. anyone telling you that womyn should pursue should go back to those misogynist™, incel Men Go Their Own Path™ loser forum’s.
it’s probably jet lag but I didn’t get the whole vote on where you are on the line thing in your tweet http://t.co/RjiFtatT
why would you do anything beyond chuckle if you saw a poster which said some girl likes it rough?
It took me an embarrassingly long time of my life to get there. More ‘fuck this’, less ‘appease for social convention and fluffy feelings’.
I challenge you to do a Bang Portugal
Great stuff here. Good one liners to use in these situations.
I would take it a step further though.
Ever since I’ve been learning game, and listening to Tom Leykis, I made a vow to never again take a girl on the traditional dinner date. Now I feel that dinner dates are for AFCs, period. (I know you aren’t doing many dinner dates, if at all, Roosh)
In a dinner date you are sitting directly across from each other, and she has the chance to do all this rude shit to you like texting, answering the phone, asking annoying questions about your career and financial status, etc. It’s way too much like a job interview, where the position is Beta Cuckold Provider.
The alternative is to meet at the bar after dinner time. This is more of a situation where you are standing side by side, mingling with others. If she stops pleasing you, you can simply walk away or start a convo with someone else nearby. You don’t have to make a big show of getting up from the dinner table. Just do a back turn and start chatting up a hotter chick.
I have zero tolerance for cell phone bullshit. A girl answers the phone or texts even once when we are getting to know each other, and I just walk away and act like we came together only as casual acquaintances. Abundance mentality – it drives them nuts.
Bringing another girl to the date or lying about photos? Instant shut-out. No mercy.
>>>19 Is there a way to preempt this bullshitary?
I think this happens more often nowadays because people meet first online before meeting in person, hence, missing a lot of red flags that are already there.
Within 5 minutes, I see a red flag go up with 90% of American women. (Red flags: excessive swearing, spitting, fidgeting w/ gadgets, an uncovered yawn, etc. … YMMV)
Yeah, shitty odds. But not as bad as getting stuck on a date with one.
>>>>39 I challenge you to do a Bang Portugal
Here’s a bigger challenge:
Bang Vatican City
Of all the first dates that end with substantial kissing….
…..What fraction of those eventually led to sex, either the same night or any later date?
I am trying to get an idea of conversion ratios FROM the time when a first date gets at least to kissing…
Is that point 20% of the way there? 50%? 75%?
I totally agree with these. The first one especially. All girls misrepresent themselves in their photos online. They only choose the best ones, not even the average “normal” pictures. If I meet a girl in person and she looks nothing like her picture, I simply walk out. It is not worth my time. All guys should do the same.
Another question :
Which city has more beautiful women? New York or Los Angeles?
Which among these two, is the best?
Sadly, I know far too many men who wouldn’t walk out on a date even if all the above criteria were met. Whatever happened to dignity?
@35, I live in East Euro, past 5 years, a girl bringing a friend on a date happens somewhat regularly, and obviously she’s not taking the date seriously, agree with what Roosh says, have a good time girls.
hahaha LOL…I met this Columban chick in Shanghai. We set up a date and before the date she tells me that she’s bringing her friend. Mother efffing South Americans :D
@46 What happened to dignity? It was sacrificed for the pussy. Plain and simple. I can’t get enough how many times I see betas buying rounds and drinks for the girls with them.
A girl who’s constantly on the phone is definitely an attention freak. It’s practically an addiction for them. So if she’s going to spend 5-10 minutes on her phone, I’m gonna spend it flirting with another girl present.
And by the way, dinner dates are ok in my book. I’ll do them because I’m hungry. The reason why it’s so easy to me is because we SPLIT. I’ll never pay for her dinner, even if she seems like a cool girl. My shit-test is to see how consistent she is with her nice personality (on future dates).
In all my years, I’ve only had one girl bring someone else to a date. It was a first date from Match.com though, so “safety” was her excuse.
I was beyond pissed, so I sat there encouraging both of them to drink up (bar/restaurant where I didn’t have to open the tab) and kept ordering shots.
Two hours later, I said to the waitress “check please, and split it three ways.”
She and her friend were visibly annoyed.
That was about 6 years ago. Today, I’d handle it just like Roosh said. I’d cut and run almost immediately.
My most amazing case of rudeness on a date was when I took a female coworker out to dinner and then on the way home she announced in the car that she told her boyfriend we were going out to dinner and he replied it was ok as long as that was all we were doing, having dinner. I didn’t know she had a boyfriend and looked at her and wondered if she was crazy. How would you deal with that if it happened to you? It was too late to end the date but, of course, I didn’t ask her out again. Amusingly, her boyfriend dumped her a few months after that and now she doesn’t have anyone.
“Bang Vatican City”
This is what I would call out-of-the-box thinking. Awesome.
Brilliant as always….all points are noted.
Girls misrepresenting themselves online is in understatement…… I met this girl once that only had a face pic on her profile, I should of known….I met her at a coffee shop and as soon as she arrived I saw to my amazement that she had more body fat than the Michellin tire and a Beluga wale put together!!! Luckily for me since this was our first date I had set up in emergency phone call from a buddy… He called me and I promply told her that I had to go because his car had broken down on the highway…. She was polite about it but she knew that I would never call her again, so lesson number one of online dating full body pic and ask for her facebook so you can see recent pics very important if not you might have a heart attack literally!!!!
Abundance mentality, abundance mentality, abundance mentality!
Barring your establishment of a long-term living situation in China, India or the rural U.S., there will always be another woman ripe for the plucking. She may be a point lower in beauty/a point higher in BMI, but chasing after *any* woman who isn’t internationally reknown for her beauty is stupid.
In Thailand it’s common for the girl to bring along a girlfriend or two for the first date. The man is expected to foot the bill.
This is no financial hardship, as food and drinks are cheap there.
It’s a different setup. There are different cultural expectations. Westerners initially think they are being played for a chump when her friends arrive uninvited and order up a table of food, but that’s not really accurate. That’s just how things are done, and it can actually be a fun date. If they aren’t engaging you and flirting and entertaining you but are talking among themselves, then you are being played for a chump.
The more experienced girls are less shy to meet one on one the first time, but it’s still common for the young women to use their friends as chaperons to take the edge off. Of course the man wants to avoid that setup if he can. It’s a tell of sexual naivete, so if easy sex is your expectation, a chaperon is not a good sign.
It was so common to have surprise friends accompany a girl on her first date that eventually I’d make sure the date was going to arrive alone with “you’re coming alone, right?”. The girl is just not sending the right signal by arriving with friends, and the chances of you extracting her from her group and leading her to your place on the spot diminish. Eventually I figured that girls too timid to brave a first date alone were disqualifying themselves as not my style. I’m not really into that much purity.
thank you man. It makes sense