3 Game Questions That Keep Me Up At Night

1. Her commitment to a seduction

Problem:

The best type of game to run leans on the aloof side. Girls want a challenge, no matter where you are in the world, but how distant and aloof can you be until you start to lose her? How much effort is she willing to put in before finally giving up and moving on?

My Initial Take:

When I was in Argentina, I quickly learned that a girl will release you back into the wild much easier than an American girl. She will not spring back at you when you withdraw attention. I remember one night I was in a Buenos Aires club, flirting with an Australian girl, when I got annoyed at her and walked away. Not one hour later, she sought me out, something than an Argentine girl would never do.

American girls put in the most amount of work for a guy they like, to the point of desperation. They will send repeated texts or just ask the guy on a date outright. You can be extremely aloof—even disrespectful and insulting—and the girl will still come into you. In Eastern Europe, this is not the case. The aloof line of demarcation is closer to Argentina than America. Not responding to one of their texts can be a grievous error that you may not be able to recover from. Even though her attraction for you is high, and she has no other cock in her lineup, she will be much more reluctant to chase you if she feels you are withdrawing from her.

Future Work:

I need to experiment with girls I have had sex with via dating (not one-night stands). This means that her attraction for me is relatively solid. With these girls I will need to play around with my text reply times or not be in a hurry to ask them out, just to see if they will make moves to gain my favor. My instinct tells me that in Eastern Europe, I have to continually lead the interaction.

2. Receiving advice from other men

Problem:

For men who get laid with 5s and 6s, how applicable is their game advice for men who want to bang 9s? If I’m in Romania, studying Romanian women, and I meet a man who bangs a new 6 every night, should I listen to his advice?

My Initial Take:

I respect the man who has banged a hundred 4’s. The sheer act of sealing the deal on a woman of any attractiveness takes salesmanship and commitment. This chubby chaser can have advice that helps men who want to bang higher talent. For example, his logistics game could help when trying to bang your 9. Nonetheless, it would be a mistake to duplicate his game. As I’ve gone up in quality over the years, I’ve had to adjust my game in all areas. The fact that average girls use their sexuality to attract men in ways that 9’s don’t immediately tells you that’s a different ballgame. Sometimes it feels like a different sport entirely.

I wrote Bang to get with an American 7. The book has done well because in America, a 7 is close to the high average. But banging model or actress quality requires a different set of tools that very few men in the world have, especially men in America who don’t even see 9’s thanks to the aesthetic de-evolution ravaging the country. For this reason, I mostly ignore all game advice from all men, unless I know that that man specifically goes after girls I want. Otherwise, I’m in my workshop with no choice but to re-invent the wheel for the environment I’m in.

Future Work:

The men who are banging 9’s are not pick-up artists who use copy/paste material—they are men of status who have coveted access to these women. It would be ideal to befriend such a man and dissect his life to see what could be modeled. The problem is that this is more of a structural and lifestyle game than verbal game, and would likely take years to iron out. For you to have this issue, I imagine you would have been in the game for several years and a notch count well over 100. I consider it an “International Player Problem.”

3. When conversations end

Problem:

You’re in a night venue and approach a girl. You get into a conversation that lasts five minutes and suddenly she leaves with an excuse to dance with her friends. Did you do something wrong? Why would a girl end a conversation that she seemed initially interested in?

My Initial Take:

This issue has perplexed me for years because it brings up a lot of difficult questions related to attraction and how it is perceived by the girl. If you approach a girl and get rejected off the bat, it’s because she didn’t like your look, vibe, or opening line. But if you approach and she talks to you with open body language, that means those three components are agreeable to her. In other words, she is actively considering you for sex, and is now going to see if this positive first impression is matched by your personality, background, and value.

I’ve recently decided to adopt the firm view that if a girl exits a conversation after five minutes, I completely blew it (unless she had a boyfriend). I lost out on a notch, displaying a quality that she didn’t like or a game that is not what she wanted. In other words, I’m interpreting her exit from an established conversation the same as a blow out. This is tough on the ego, because essentially you’re expanding the definition of rejection, but on the other hand it’s needed for me to achieve the next level of game wisdom. Accepting this view is allowing me to test a lot of assumptions I’ve made about game and what it takes to hook a girl and keep her hooked.

Future Work:

When a girl exits an established conversation, I meditate on what just occurred, especially the last minute—to examine the content of my speech and my body language. How did I respond (or not respond) to what she was giving me? Did I show too much interest? Did I miss a cue that she gave me? Every girl is different so what one girl would have banged you for is what another girl would reject you for.

This issue forces me to mentally pull up an idealized blueprint of the path to a girl’s panties within the first minute of a conversation. I have to draw upon all my experiences to very quickly identify the game she wants and then smoothly deliver it without making mistakes. This is no easy task, obviously, but once accomplished, I don’t know what further game mountain is left to climb.

Read Next: The 3 Principal Types Of Game

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Tampa
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Tampa
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You are right on about the lack of high quality talent in America. I think we as American men lose track of that.

Vincent Vinturi
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All of the little things add up, for sure. Becoming well-traveled, donning good fashion, working out, cultivating a group of friends whose company you enjoy.

In most cases I think what sabotages dudes’ chances is that they build these areas of their lives IN ORDER TO get more women. So it looks like “ok, I’m buff now, where are the hotties? Are they noticing? Ain’t I hot?” Same for building a social circle and traveling and everything else.

If you’re doing it for your personal growth, the consequence is that you become a more attractive man. Whereas if you do it to become a more attractive man, it feels off. Subtle difference, but women feel it…

BigN_Tasty
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This bogus shit… All of civilization and indeed all the societal bullshit men put up with, is driven by man’s desire for pussy.
Like me, for instance. I disciplined myself all my years to focus and excel in every area of life. Physical fitness, mental fitness, and financial fitness. By age 25 I was making $60k/yr, weighed 190 @ 6′ benching 335. Great taste and style, good looks (8+ by anyone’s standards). But the pussy never came. So I thought long and hard, “Why bother putting up with all this shit and exerting all this effort? What’s in it for me?” I understand life doesn’t revolve around pussy, but it has_to_be_in_there_somewhere. Without it? Fuck all this bullshit. Why not grab some guns and shoot up a nice flock of females? They didn’t mind selling me a lifelong lie while exploiting my hard labor through taxes for pussy I never got.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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About commitment to seduction.

It always fucking stomps me how western women don’t value respect at all. That’s why you can get away with calling them anything, not replying, being an asshole, etc. All thing I find highly disrespectful and I don’t like doing. The only thing they like is attraction.

On the other hand, while other cultures are at ease with sexuality and attraction, they have strong values. So they don’t care if you’re attractive if you’re also immature, disrespectful, selfish and arrogant. They will boot you as they should. As any normal girl should if she was decent…

memcpy
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memcpy
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I think starting a band would be a good way to gain local fame. Provided you write your own songs.

Nomad77
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The key to higher quality girls is access. Where are these girls? Simple, follow the money. In every country as you go to the nicer areas and places the quality of the girls improves. Money will grant you access to these places BUT it is local status that will matter because everyone has money in them. Once you are in these places and can establish yourself as belonging there THEN your superior Game will come to bear. The KEY is to get just one girl from that social/status class. She doesn’t have to be the highest quality one she just needs to be in that class. This will then give you the social proof and pre-selection you need to get better ones. It is very similar to social climbing. You use one girl as a stepping stone to a better one.

Dr. Murray F. Rottencrotch
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I’ve got one–

Would you rather know that your mother and father conceived in an act of everlasting true love and passion, and were wholly faithful to one another,

or,

that your father was a pussy-slaying player?

Is there a maestro who could meaningfully establish both?

William
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William
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Bro, you are too far along for anything to be keeping you up at night.

Are you really this in your head still?

dannyfrom504
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if you need any input on Europe, especially spain, italay, germany and czech republic- hit me up.

Jordan
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Jordan
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I really hope you are studying Romanian women. I would love to see a data sheet on the forum.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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[I don’t know why I write, I think I’ve been banned from this blog]

“Why would a girl end a conversation that she seemed initially interested in?”

1.she likes a man’s attention but she doesn’t like you so she has to make a small talk before she leaves. Rejection is painful and she knows that.

2. she likes you but doesn’t have o.n.s culture, so when she realizes sex is all that you want she withdraws and let you move on to someone else.

3. she likes you but if she’s with her female friends, it would be hard to make her leave with you because the other girls will notice and gossip. Better take her phone number and you’ll meet next day.Girls talk about men about their relationships but not about o.n.s. If it happens, they will consider it was a pleasant accident,but still an accident, not something they are proud off, so they will not talk with the other girls about it.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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(10) I was talking about Romanian girls.
Bye.

Anonymous
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When conversations end
There could be a whole host of reasons why it ends.
I think you make it to different rounds and are either given further approval or rejected.
A conversation is just the next round that is either let progress further or ended.

Or sometimes I have spotted a hot stylish women and engaged her in conversation only to find out the tone of voice or her lack of smarts puts an end to the vibe that was created visually.
When everything does line up the flow is fairly seamless to the end – which seems easy and controllable but it isn’t.

I guess when some thing ends that looked promising there is the tendency to rack the brain for a reason to be able to improve. Sometimes if there is nothing upon reflection that could have been done differently then you chalk it up as a misalignment.

soundtrack
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soundtrack
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Ruxman
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Positive responses in the first minute can be similar amongst responsive girls, sounds like you’ll need a fine tooth comb.

S.M.I.L.E>
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Consider.

If she leaves within the first five minutes.

How “genuinely” interested in her to begin with where you. You may have been internally talking quite differently to yourself about the type of interest you had in her or what interest you thought she had in you, while you were talking to her “externally” focusing to much on your game being the priority.

She may have picked up on this, and lost interest like you did.

Learn to read the signs in your self if this is happening and exit first, return later for another 5 minutes or so, now your having 5 minute dates, or one minute dates.

Soon it can just be the knowing smile date from across the room that lasts just a few seconds or the appreciative wink or nod.

Like this, you can soon be dating every girl in the room for hours minutes or spit seconds of a time simultaneously.

See how it works for you.

Does this generally occur within the first couple of approaches in the day, the middle couple, the last couple.

Look at your energy levels, do they wax and wane through the night. what are you thinking and feeling at these times.

Adjust accordingly.

mich
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mich
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great post. Not one girl is the same, and every girl needs a personalized approach. Yesterday a high profile cougar dined me, but I applied standard game and my effort was minimum. Didn’t work. Vibe and look were also aawry or absent. Never assume the cat is in the sack, until you bang her.

madmax
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man, seriously, all ‘puas’ can kiss your butt. No one writes the best blogs, they are just so realistic.

The question ‘how much aloof is enough’ is a great question. My take is that it works well only if, a) you are very good looking and her shallowness tricks her mind into believing she likes you or she might like you (the halo effect). In other words, if she’s judging by looks alone.

Or, b) if you are average looking but she STILL thinks she might like you.

I am not counting social status, financial status etc since it’s a waste of time to dwell on things that infact, for me, depends just on natural inclination and luck too.

But you are the ONLY one who question ALL game in view of new learning. That’s why every ‘guru’ in the industry can kiss your butt.

Great work Roosh

madmax
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like you, by being aloof, more often than not, meant that the girl stopped interacting with me. Which doesn’t bother me anymore, since I somehow learned to automatically stop liking someone who doesn’t like me. And it’s great. She could be the sexiest bitch on the planet, if she doesn’t like me, I just see her as a meaningless person who doesn’t affect my life. I don’t even hate her, I just feel nothing for her, I truly don’t give a shit.

Incredibly, that change happened for me automatically. I think it’s because of all the negative things I have learned about women, such as reading books like ‘Venus the dark side’, watching episodes of ‘Snapped’ and generally learn how manipulative women really can be.

I now don’t see a 10 or any of that shit, none of them will ever be a 10 or even a 9, it’s just a fallible human being and most likely a person with, in fact, major defect. As for the sexual aspect, yeah I’d fuck her, true, but that’s nothing a good porn and my hand or my moulded pussy can’t solve, lol

By the way guys, try moulded pussies instead of your hand. There’s an heavish type that you don’t have to hold and can put on a surface and fuck it while you watch a good porn, and it costs the price of a couple beers. I have a really tight mould and the orgasms are incredible, LOL

Moral of the story: fucking an attractive woman is ok, it’s nothing special really. I will put some work, but to me, no woman deserves such a large portion of my valuable time, the stuff life is made of. Once you’ve fucked her, you just want to get back to things you really love, because you can never love a woman. You just can’t fucking do that, it’s a thankless task. You can only love yourself.

Of course, for someone like Roosh is different, they guy found his own calling and mastered all this and gained a formidable amount of experience. I saw him on romanian tv and was impressed at his composure. So all I say about not putting in enough time, doesn’t apply to him, ’cause I respect and admire him.

But I am disillusioned with women and my jaw doesn’t drop around any woman anymore, I don’t care how good she looks, most of them have flabby, chicken-style arms, whether they are fat (eeeewwww, I wouldn’t fuck her with someone else’s dick) or slim and slender, their arms still look like shit. And their obsession with moisturizing creams and stupid shit like that make me laugh. They don’t know, and never will, 40 per cent of what a man knows and can’t do, and never will, 40 per cent of what a man can do.

Men built the world. Women helped men by pushing them off a cliff.

Cad and Bounder
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Roosh, I’ve lived in Eastern Europe and am doing so now.

A few comments

1. Texting is declining in popularity relative to IM. I know you don’t like smart phones but if you want to juggle loads of chicks on a PAYG phone then IM is the only cost effective option. And the encroachment of IM ‘etiquette’ in society means you do NOT have to reply to every text in EE. I’ve found EE girls are gamed in pretty much the same way as other girls are. Where I have made mistakes it has been when I gave into them in the slightest way.

2. This is surely the pathway from simulated alpha to real alpha. If you are not highly successful in your life or career than the best option is try and belong to a social circle and benefit from the social proofing of ‘reflected alpha’. A horrible phrase but you know what I mean. This is why intelligent British people do anything they can to get their children into public (US-private) schools.

3. Maybe this is why so many hate night game outside of a touristic situation? The leads are largely pre-filtered for chicks that want a gaggle of men giving them attention while forking out money in a beta trap. Your mate in Warsaw had it sussed with night game but that game requires money that most men don’t have.

Maybe its better to analyse your day game instead? Because the data is less affected by pre-selection (night game leads are not as random as daygame) and there are less variables (night game has loads of distractions) in daygame.

3.

indian_hotguy_Bholu
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I have approached a girl recently, and i am afraid if any black magician destroys my testicles so i left her, she went along with another guy

I followed her and took some pics of her boobs now i just masturbate on seeing those pics

What should i do, as an indian hindu hot man,what should i do.

How can a hindu guy get sex

moop
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moop
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^lol what?

Also I don’t think it’s a big deal if a girl leaves a conversation early. Lots of quick, random socializing is natural in a party atmosphere. Some girls just like talking, and they don’t view every interaction with a guy as a potential bang.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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help

where are the link to buy the “combo” of your books?

[Roosh: http://bangguides.com/ebook/bang-order/ ]

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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/\ thanks Sir.

greetings from Brazil.

Introverted Playboy
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As far as when conversations end, certainly basic socializing is part of the process. In general men are more sex-driven than women, so they will have sex in mind more often than women. Even if she is sexually attracted to him, it doesn’t mean she wants to have sex. She has many other factors to contend with aside from getting off–emotional attachment, her reputation among friends, the overall situation that night, her quasi-relationships with other boyfriends and orbiters, etc.

There is also an element of randomness in any process like this that is unavoidable.

A lot of guys fuck up good conversations by smothering the girl with attention and validation. They think it’s going great, but actually they’re just filling her up with validation. Once she’s filled up, she doesn’t need him anymore, so she can go back to her friends/ other more fun things.

Giovonny
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I love thsse types of posts! The ones that really dig deep into advanced understanding of male-female sexual dynamics..

This is my favorite subject.

“I mostly ignore all game advice from all men”

Lol!

“I’m interpreting her exit from an established conversation the same as a blow out. This is tough on the ego, because essentially you’re expanding the definition of rejection, but on the other hand it’s needed for me to achieve the next level of game wisdom.”

Polite rejections, delayed rejections, soft rejections, passive-agressive rejections, complimentary rejections, etc.

It’s still a rejection.

“This is no easy task, obviously, but once accomplished, I don’t know what further game mountain is left to climb.”

There are mountains below the sea and mountains on the moon. There is always another mountain to climb.

I’d like to see you conquer Moscow! Or, maybe Siberia.

Or Arizona State University!

Cool post!

Giovonny
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#24 said:

“There is also an element of randomness in any process like this that is unavoidable.”

I like that. I always account for “randomness”.

To me, life is often “random”.

Half of my bangs are randos

Jarod
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I agree with two fully.

You should always takes notes when someone’s good at what they do, you can always grab little gold nuggets.

Even if he is banging lower class chicks there’s always something in his “knowledge” that will be an AH HA moment for you like, “Why didn’t I think of that?”

Great read.

-Jarod

TM
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I’ve had a multitude of experience with Eastern European (primarily Romanian), women and for me, I had to lead the interaction as Roosh stated. It was interesting how the level of engagement and the idea of respect was so different than American women and took a few modifications in my game at that time. Modifications were drastic in the text game.

Anonymous
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1. Aloofness is the wrong way to put it. You have to get her to invest into you heavily, and being aloof is ONE WAY of doing it. During conversations I use different ways of having her talking WAY more than me, usually about herself and the concept of relationships. On text I might bridge messages through slight vacuuming, but I NEVER STOP BEING CLOSE AND SWEET. I think it IS possible to get her heavily invested in you without being aloof or being a dick. It comes down to natural interaction, if she says something you don’t like, show her by responding negatively to it. If you do like it, respond positively. Women, especially in the East, do this beautifully… They are sweet to you, but they have this underlying vibe they put off which prevents you from outright offering sex. The secret is to simulate that.

2. The main differences between a 9 and a 6 are her reference experiences, and your response to her. By default, a club 6 will have been approached far more than a 9, and is way more likely to show you bitchiness. The club 6 has loads of options, and gaming her is hard. The daygame “nice” 6 is different, and a bit more authenticity/vulnerability is required. A 9 will have been approached a lot aswell, but the main difference is that she is approached by guys with balls of steel, 90% of which are drunk guys with nothing to lose. The remaining 10% are rich guys with no game, and sometimes the girl will logically go with that, and I don’t blame her. An approach from a guy with tight game is VERY RARE, because even the best PUA’s have trouble with the inner game of approaching these girls, and the chances of her running into a man who can treat her confidently but naturally are slim to none. THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS NOT THE GIRL HERSELF, BUT THE WAY YOU ACT AROUND HER. If you pedestalize her (a.k.a. she is the 9), your game will be shit and you be blown out. Run that game on a 6 and you will also be blown out. The key is to truly become a high value man that is looking for more than physical beauty, because if that is all you’re after, it will show and she will blow you out. If you have to, go out there, talk to models during the day and just reject them… It’s loads of fun and is good for your mindsets. I have found that when inner game is down, and you external game on a 9 is the same as on a 6, these girls are WAY EASIER. They respond hugely to push-pull, challenging and they invest hugely in you when they are attracted, because they have way less reference experiences with great guys. As Katherine Hepburn said: “Plain girls have far more natural relationships with men that beautiful girls.” You’ll find that these relationships are very natural and non-gamey once you get initial barriers down. So yes, it’s the same shit, and once you overcome your “fear of beauty”, these girls are easier. BUT, that’s not to say you don’t have to play your numbers game, the same as with girls from lesser tiers.

3. When a girl stops a conversation, at least in daygame, the classic “I have to go” comes out for many reasons. On the street it rarely means that she is actually going somewhere, but has far more to do with the pressure of the interaction. I’d guess that in a nightclub it would be similar. Talking to a complete stranger is something that requires quite a bit of effort if you don’t do it frequently, and even though she might really like you, she will still want to exit the interaction, becuause human beings choose simplicity over complexity. If she comes out on a date with you, she is putting A LOT of effort in, which she would never do if you hadn’t given her a very good reason to, and created enough comfort to a point where she feels close enough to you in a way that the effort required is less. That is the whole point of the instant date. We bring comfort levels up, and that way the effort required on her part is less. The motivator for her to come out with you, or the justification for the little effort she DOES have to put in, is the attraction I’ve created and, in very rare occasions, the deep connection.

christinainga
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Regarding when conversations end:
I’m an American woman (southern), but I fit your (Roosh) description of foreign girls much better in terms of how I treat men and how I want them to treat me. I respond well to men who are polite and genuine, who have confidence and common courtesy. I run from meanness and am not generally a game player.
There are many good reasons here for why a girl would walk away from a conversation like this, but there is one I didnt see that is the most common for me. If someone comes up to talk to me, male or female, any age or style or type etc., I never immediately just blow them off because that feels rude to me. Well except for maybe pushy salespeople or someone that honestly scares me, and then sometimes I still get sucked in for a minute or two to not feel bad about being rude. I will exchange a few minutes of small talk and then excuse myself if there is no compelling reason to stay. So she may not have been interested in your look, vibe, or opening line but just being polite.
I know this just makes the problem more complicated but it is something that I do all the time and it jumped out at me.