4 Reasons Why I Don’t Recommend Direct Day Game

A recent foray I’ve made into direct game has been adventurous but ultimately unsatisfying. It’s not so much because of a change in results (I can’t say it’s much different than my indirect game success rate), but because I don’t see how it can be declared a superior method.

Now before direct guys start frothing over their keyboards, I must state that I don’t intend to start an indirect vs direct war. Choosing a style of game is an individual decision that a smart student of the game will research on his own. I especially respect the work that the London day game guys are doing, but they seem to be getting a pass in having their strategies rigorously examined. Their system has flaws like any other so it’s worth having an open dialogue that helps men make the right decision on which style of game to invest time in. That said, I have determined that a primarily direct model is not for me. Here’s why:

1. Complimenting girls as an opener is pedestalization

First, it’s important to state what direct is. It’s not making a comment about her clothing. It’s not making a comment about her quirky bag. It’s not inquiring about her unique gait. Direct game is opening with a compliment about her. This means directly praising her beauty, style, hair, or what have you. A lot of guys think they are running direct game by asking where a girl got her cool shoes from, for example, but that’s clearly indirect.

If I open direct and eventually fail to get a number (maybe she has a boyfriend or is simply not interested in me), a common way for her to end the interaction is to say “Thank you for the compliment.” Some even will add, “You made my day.” That’s beautiful, isn’t it? You made a pretty girl feel great about herself. Wrong, it’s evidence of poor strategy. Her expression of thanks indicates that you have given her something she greatly values (validation) without receiving anything in return. In effect she is thanking you for putting her on the pedestal and valuing her pussy. Her “thank you” reminds me of two things:

(a) When I used to bartend, some customers would lavish me with praise on my service as I gave them the bill. You would expect that the ensuing tip would therefore be high, but the more thanks they gave, the lower the tip was. Why? Because they are attempting to compensate you on the bad tip they’re about to give with a “verbal tip” instead. They expect you to feel gracious in the verbal tip instead of actual money. However, I consider verbal tips not a fair compensation for my labor. If I gave you good service, show me the cash.

(b) In my early game days I would experiment with buying girls drinks in clubs. The girl would take my drink, talk to me for a few minutes, and then thank me for it before wandering off. I quickly learned to stop the behavior I was getting a “verbal tip” on.

Compliments have great value to women, but when you open with one, you’re giving away this resource for free without the expectation for anything in return. I suspect direct guys know this, because if you watch some of their in-field videos, you’ll notice some surprisingly indirect openers that absolutely do not compliment a women, yet they still label their approach “direct” because they have invested themselves into saying that their style of game is the best in the world.

2. Direct openers put girls on a temporary high

One problem you may have with indirect game is wasting a couple minutes of ramble before finding out that a girl simply won’t bite on your bait. You would logically think that direct game would solve this problem, because what girl with a boyfriend, for instance, would allow you to continue your approach after you compliment her beauty? Well, logic is wrong. Opening direct absolutely does little to screen out girls who aren’t available—it often does the opposite. Because you gave her a massive dose of validation, she stays put even if she is absolutely sure she does not want to have sex with you. Compliments make women very happy, so of course they will talk to you a bit longer in the hope you loft them even higher up on the pedestal. I’ve wasted much more time in direct interactions than indirect.

To the credit of some direct guys, they are aware that their approach puts girls on this high, and recommend you bring things back down manually, but I think they underestimate the power of a compliment to make even the most uninterested of girls temporarily seem interested. Indirect game does not give a girl this type of buzz that she may confuse as real attraction (a large cause of flaking). Trust me when I say that asking a girl for help on finding a coffee shop does not give her any excitement that would cause her to give her number out of emotional joy.

3. It takes a huge amount of state preparation

Have you noticed that direct gurus talk a lot about state and how important it is? The reason is that doing direct approaches require a massive amount of mental warm-up and upheaval. To run direct game, you have to psych yourself up or meditate for an extended period of time just to do a single approach. I’ve done a million approaches in my life, but my first direct approach of the day was mentally brutal, because it’s just not normal to run after girls and compliment their beauty, and it’s not similar to anything else I do in life.

Now consider an indirect approach, which for most guys takes maybe two minutes of “Okay let’s do this” before he can ask a girl a simple question, an act that they’ve already done a million times. The long wind-up it takes to do direct makes it more suitable for when you’re on vacation and want to spend at least a couple hours a day approaching. But if you want a casual system of doing just one or two approaches a day throughout your daily routine, indirect is far more sustainable.

4. Running after girls is pedestalization

To actually run after a girl you don’t know is putting her on a pedestal. It’s just not an elegant or low-key way to meet women. Now I will be the first to admit that you won’t always be able to approach indirect if a girl is out of position (maybe she already passed you or is on the other side of the street). This is where running does indeed come in handy, but when I approach after a run, I make sure not to compliment her. I will say something like, “I noticed you have a sad walk” or “I noticed you have a unique face,” almost negging her.

Running after a girl is a valid move to increase your target pool, but doing it and complimenting the girl provides an insane validation boost. You’re already pedestalizing her after running, so you should balance it out with a muted approach that doesn’t raise her further on the platform. Imagine if a cute girl ran after you and said, “Hey I just wanted to say that you are a handsome man.” That would personally make my month. Shit, I would probably write a post about it.

I know what direct guys are thinking: “You’re wrong, our approach is masculine. Going up to a girl and asking for a supermarket is weak. You’re hiding your intent.” I could argue that catching sight of a pretty girl, getting excited, and then running after her to say she’s pretty is more beta, while taking an aloof approach in order to feel out the situation before easing your claws into her is strategic and more sensible. If you’ve never done a direct approach before, it looks ballsy on Youtube, but after you’ve done it five times, you don’t feel any more masculine than before, and judging by the standard rejection rate that direct guys receive, they vastly overestimate the “masculine attraction” that their game style creates in women.

I hope that direct guys aren’t bashing indirect as a cynical marketing technique, because indirect is exactly what they use when it’s time to venue change the girl back to their apartment. Why does a hypermasculine direct guy suddenly shift to indirect when inviting a girl to his place “for a drink” instead of directly stating that he wants sex with her? It’s because he wouldn’t get laid. Indirect is the only system that you can maintain throughout, from open to close.

Now I’m not debating whether direct is effective or not (it is), but it has flaws that can be hard to reconcile. If you can run after girls to compliment them and still feel masculine, that’s great, but to me it does reek of heavy thirst. I’m not saying you’re thirsty when you use it, but based on my beliefs and world view, it makes me feel weak. Running around to compliment women is just not something that I’m down with, even though I have gotten it to work and I know for a fact that it can lead to bangs. I’ll do the run if I was unable to arrange a casual collision, but I will approach as indirect as reasonably possible and commence with dropping ramble and bait until a girl shows interest in me.

What’s most important is for men to discover the game they feel most congruent with using. Even if direct was providing me with better results, which it doesn’t, I wouldn’t enjoy doing it based on my nature, but it’s this very enjoyment that’s necessary for guys to stay in the game for—essentially—the rest of their lives. It’s your duty as a man to try different types of game and then weigh your comfort level with your results.

Read Next: How To Pick Up Girls In A Coffee Shop

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memcpy
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memcpy
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I agree, indirect is just as powerful if you are well traveled and have an interesting life.

Kane Vast
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Kane Vast
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Agreed.

Most people don’t seem to understand that the opener is almost irrelevant, it’s only newbies who focus on the opener and think its a super important part of the sarge.

The important part is how the girl feels when you open her and if she understands what you’re doing.

For example if you run up screaming about apples and your grand mothers dead cat head in a jar….she may find it funny, she may just be confused and run away, whereas if you ask about a super market, she understands exactly what you want and is probably calm enough to chat for a bit.

Direct or indirect if she doesn’t like you she won’t hang around long.

LuisG
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This is an article I was waiting for a long time. I want to point out that some guys out there like Shasha Daygame actually use direct style to shift locations and take a girl home. The dude usually says something among the lines of “we’ll have a drink somewhere, we’ll get to know each other and if we get along we’ll go to my place and have tantric sex for hours”. Personally I think indirect is the way to go for beginners.

Kane Vast
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Check out the link i posted – direct offers of sex don’t generally have much of a good/beneficial effect.

Typically everyone is opening in whatever way and becoming more and more direct.

I would say neither style is superior, it’s more that your personality, delivery and the situation decide what/how you should do things.

Also Sasha DG is quite direct from the beginning, so he isn’t exactly becoming that much more direct by suggesting they go home and have sex, plus if you go watch his day game video…he gets 1 or 2 numbers out of 9 attempts, which is pitiful.

I like Sasha and think he has some valuable stuff, i’ve met some of his students and they are cool…..but 2 out of 9 attempts sucks.

The Day Game
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Good point, here in this article. agree with your comment. 2/9 is bad, but you have to take into consideration that on average out of 100 if you’re getting 25/30% close rate (numbers) that’s a pretty good standard to adhere to.

Kane Vast
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I thought your post has some good points, mainly because I use indirect in China and overall find it much better than direct simply because most Chinese girls (the good looking ones anyway) haven’t interacted with foreigners much as the local rich dudes keep them on lock down.

So indirect makes it easier to talk to them and make the comfortable with the interaction, whereas direct inflates their already overly inflated ego’s and sometimes scares them off if they’re nervous about talking to a Foreigner.

An example of how bad it is:

My gf downloaded an app called MoMo which is basically to find hook ups/friends/ONS’s around you….it’s mainly used by desperate guys who can’t get girls and girls who want validation, you do get some sex from it, but it’s not that great….anyway:

First day she used it she got 1000 dudes contacting her, literally.

So…any compliments straight off the opener don’t make you special or more masculine, she’s heard it all before.

Lastly:

Saying something that is considered an act of bravery or a ‘risk’ can supposedly cause attraction, so can ‘DHV’s.

Here is an article where various psychologists went over mystery method and a few other systems of pick up, and they evaluate what is useful and whats retarded:

http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP10899909.pdf

Summary:

Direct openers can cause ‘attraction’ although it still doesn’t mean she’s going to fuck you straight up, just means she’ll possibly give you a bit of attention cause you’re validating her and being brave.

Peacocking doesn’t cause attraction, I still think it’s useful to some extent as it gets you attention, which is necessary, dressing like a complete retard isn’t cool though.

DHV’s are useful.

Attraction, Comfort/trust, Seduction is legit, surprise surprise, not.

Peace

Kane Vast

Tokyo Teddy
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haha I ve had some luck with good old Momo! Where in China are you? I was living in Guangzhou (in Bangkok now).

Douglas Mackenzie
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I’ve spend 2 years doing direct day game, and a lot of it is a waste of time. you complement a girl, she says “thanks, you made my day”, then goes off and fcks her bf. how nice.
i really can’t be bothered to pointlessly validate chicks i am never gonna see again.
problem is, direct day game, you always have an ‘opener’, you always can jump in and start the chat without thinking of something situational or interesting to say.

Kane Vast
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1. You don’t need to pointlessly validate her, you should be kinoing from the open or very shortly afterwards, hence you’re getting something from it and pushing her to invest by allowing you to kino her.

2. You can have a few indirect openers that will work anywhere – think of opinion openers and old skool MM stuff – it was usable anywhere.

I live in China and my ‘goto’ indirect opener is I ask girls ‘Can you speak Chinese’ in Chinese.

Works in the club, works in the train, mall, library, supermarket, park, restaurant, music festival and anywhere else you can think of….cause they always reply with:

Of course….

Then I say…oh…..why?

Then they say…cause i’m Chinese!

Then I tell them…no…you don’t like Chinese…. and continue.

Direct works best if you’re obviously higher value than the girl, lots of Pick up ‘guru’s’ blab on about ‘assume attraction’ and ‘be a 10’ which is a load of shit if the girl is obviously gorgeous/getting lots of attention regularly and you’re an average guy, she isn’t gonna think ur a 10.

Direct is like using a shot gun at point blank range, indirect is like using a sniper rifle.

'Reality' Doug
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Douglas, great name. I think you need to be more narcissistic and emotionally solid (not exploitable, not transparent). I have recently have been blogging on this and will blog more on it. A women’s native mental language is instincts not reason. If you vibe right, they will hold eye contact with you, or leave and then watch to see if you react like she matters to you at all = too much. If not, they usually come back feeling more safe about your value not being a downer to her social status.

Usually guys don’t field test enough relative to theory. You seem to have field tested without theorizing on the data, your observations. You must do both in concert, like exercise is not training unlesss it is coordinated with diet and rest. If you are alone in public (you know what I mean, everyone), practice your vibe until it is reliable for attraction, at least basic interest where the chick is not sure she is not attracted. You must learn to read and write people through instinctive communication (subcommunication). I don’t compliment a chick until she cares what I think of her as a general rule. I think it worked better 10 years ago. Women will only get more narcissistic and flakey as time and decline continue. Do it only as an immediate investment in yourself not women. You will be out in the normal course of living for yourself, so that is when to accidently let things happen and experiment. That is indirect game and the more natural game to how women reckon (not think per se).

Onder Hassan
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“If your vibe right, they will hold eye contact with you, or leave and then watch to see if you react like she matters to you at all = too much.”

^^ This

Women go nuts when they realise their silly catty behaviour means shit to you. Game essentially is a skill to mess with a woman’s reality and ego to a point where she literally chases for validation, to the extent of sleeping with you just to get it.

TheGenXFactor
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This really validated my perception of why sales work broke me down mentally and did the same for my employees. Can’t take credit for consciously discovering it, but did develop something to help keep people productive. In sales it was a mentality of, “convince me that you are worth my time,” mixed with, “am I sure that I really want this work/deal.” This really changes what you say and do. I find with females that I get into an amused boredom along the lines of, “is she worth it?” The only way that I keep the motivation up to network is to find amusement in the process of playing with her mentally like I used to with potential sales targets. I stopped complimenting their businesses or properties. Sometimes I was downright critical. Don’t get me wrong; it is hard to mix a close in here. We could be talking about inner game. All that I know is that Roosh is so right and it works in successful business. My hit numbers are higher in all venues when it is indirect first and foremost. In addition salespeople do not burn out as quickly. I am telling you the direct positive approaches break you down mentally and I will never do it again. If it hurts to hit yourself with a hammer, you should stop.

Sundance
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Personally, I don’t think there’s any difference in a woman’s mind between direct and indirect. The intent of a guy approaching or chatting her up out of the blue is clear, regardless of the initial combination of words used.

Kane Vast
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Poder
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I’ve done on the street, direct game for years (3 or so). The main problem with it is that you have to do a lot if approaches just to get a number, about 10 for me. A lot of women have somewhere to go so they don’t stop and talk, and even if they stop, it is only about for 5 minutes. Once you give the girl a strong compliment, it is not a challenge for her; she already won you over. Indirect is easier because it does not even feel like approaching, it is just having a conversation. Rejections aren’t nearly as harsh. It is easier to transition to a conversation and conversations last longer. Going direct is unnecessary or counterproductive most of the time, IMO.

Kane Vast
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Kane Vast
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Mostly agree, well said.

Lothario
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I think approaching women in public automatically lowers your value, unless she sends you a clear message. Women like pre selected, unavalaible men.

Kane Vast
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I would agree that you’re not coming in at the highest level of value you potentially could if you instead knew her through social circle….but if you don’t know her throughs social circle, what else are you going to do?

I also think that what you said is something worth being aware of but at the same time, it doesn’t really help or make your chances better to think about it too much as you can’t do much about it, except stay home and whack off.

TRR
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Thing is, a lot of women give off the most subtle of IOIs that the average guy learning game misses half of them.

On top of that, there’s no really no loss in approaching. Okay you temporarily boosted her self esteem and now she’s going home to fuck her boyfriend… so what?

Yeah indirect has it’s place, but you have to play much more of a waiting game. During the summer I simply stand at a busy intersection and open girls direct as they basically pass by me. Yes this method has a high rejection rate.

If you’re waiting in a coffee shop you might have to spend several hours in a coffee shop just to do 2-3 indirect approaches. Not saying indirect isn’t easier, it is, it’s just harder to manufacture opportunities as opposed to direct. This is the main reason London daygamers push direct. It allows people to get their reps in and learn at a faster pace as a result. If you only do indirect and need 5 hours to get 2-3 approaches in you’re going to learn very slowly.

Kane Vast
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“Thing is, a lot of women give off the most subtle of IOIs that the average guy learning game misses half of them.”

Hell yeah.

“On top of that, there’s no really no loss in approaching. Okay you temporarily boosted her self esteem and now she’s going home to fuck her boyfriend… so what?
Yeah indirect has it’s place, but you have to play much more of a waiting game. During the summer I simply stand at a busy intersection and open girls direct as they basically pass by me. Yes this method has a high rejection rate.”

You don’t really have to ‘play a waiting game’ if you’re kinoing quickly and adding in sexualization…girls with bf’s who aren’t gonna fuck you usually leave pretty quick when you start adding in sexual humour/playfulness’

“If you’re waiting in a coffee shop you might have to spend several hours in a coffee shop just to do 2-3 indirect approaches. Not saying indirect isn’t easier, it is, it’s just harder to manufacture opportunities as opposed to direct. This is the main reason London daygamers push direct. It allows people to get their reps in and learn at a faster pace as a result. If you only do indirect and need 5 hours to get 2-3 approaches in you’re going to learn very slowly.”

I seriously don’t understand what you mean here dude….

Why would you spend several hours to do 2 or 3 indirect approaches?

I know some guys in Seoul, Gangnam who hit up the coffee shop strip (about 7 coffee shops along one street, probably 20 to 50 tables in each shop) and they can easily hit10 indirect approaches an hour if nothing sticks, if it sticks then they figure out within about 5 minutes if they’re wasting their time or not.

I don’t really get why you would need 5 hours to do 2 or 3 approaches?

And if you’re doing direct and getting rejected a shit ton….what sort of reps are you doing?

You’re essentially hammering ‘rejection reference experience’ into yourself….that’s not very useful……

Whereas learning to read girls, maintain conversations, inject sexualization, kino and all that would be more beneficial in terms of reference experience.

For example:

Lets say we get two guys doing a bootcamp:

One guy does a ‘direct’ bootcamp, the other does ‘indirect’

direct:

2 days and 2 nights
Opens 120 girls over this time (30 a session)
most likely will have brief 5 min interactions with most of those girls consisting of open, hook, bit of chatting, maybe some kino and a number or 20 (newbs usually aren’t gonna bang on a bootcamp)

indirect:
2 days and 2 nights
Opens
most likely will have longer more drawn out interactions and will get to practice more of the skills i.e open hook, chitchat/vibing/story telling/cold reading and can bounce the girl to an instant date more easily because she has less pressure to interact with him/give him compliance…

At the end of the bootcamp – who is better equipped to go off and practice by themselves?

anus
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anus
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want to do direct game?

Be good looking

Onder Hassan
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Being good looking helps but it’s not true. I’m fortunate enough to be blessed with slightly above average looks and I can tell you. It means squat.

I’ve gone both the indirect and direct route and I’ve quickly learned that it’s not so much as the approach that matters, but whether or not you was masculine and dominant enough for her to want to stop and talk to you.

Try running past a girl and stop her from the front with strong eye contact, low vocal tone and authoritative body language and see what happens.

You’ll quickly realise that it’s got nothing to do with your external looks, but your masculine vibe.

Kane Vast
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Dude….its again a marketing tactic to say ‘looks don’t matter’.

It’s just that if guys think they have to be a certain level of looks to be able to use Game then no one would buy any products or do bootcamps.

Looks make a difference.

If you’re good looking – its much easier.
If you’re not good looking – Game will still work for you, you can still get results, it just may be harder.

Reference experience, knowledge and ‘Game’ can certainly make a difference, but if you got two brothers, who’ve had similar life experience, one was a 9 in terms of looks, great body and all that, the other is a 4, and you get them to Game the same girls one after another, of course the girls will pick the good looking guy the high majority of the time.

Same as we wouldn’t pick ugly chicks over hot chicks.

Onder Hassan
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I don’t disagree with you.

Looks do make a difference but a lot of people seem to think that it carries most of the weight when in truth, it doesn’t. It simply opens doors and provides you with more approach invitations.

You still need to approach, start a conversation and effectively game the girl. A girl isn’t going to do this for you no matter how good looking you are.

I’ve had loads of invitations in the past, but due to my lack of game, had doors close on me and never to be opened again. That was pretty much the story of my life as far as my dating life was concerned.

The moral of the story is, you need game. Being good looking is 10% of the equation. The other 90% is your game.

Onder Hassan
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I love your posts Roosh, but I have to strongly disagree with this.

Direct Game works, but you have to do it from a position of strength. Or in other words, believe that you’re an attractive and dominant/masculine man.

If you approach a girl the right way (run past her and block her way), you’ll often find that the attraction phase takes care of itself right away as she sees that you mean business.

It’s the best way to approach when starting out as it gives you the reference experiences needed to internalise that belief, which eventually leaks over into your general character and personality.

I don’t recommend indirect to anyone starting out because it assumes that you’re not attractive enough to tell a girl what you really think and have to ‘build value’, which is terrible for your inner game.

What if you already had it?

The reality is, you do. You just need to give yourself the permission to have it.

Kane Vast
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Why do you think her stopping and receiving validation from you equals attraction?

The majority of girls will stop and receive compliments unless you’re a total freak……everyone likes being complimented and validated.

If you can go do direct game and get make outs consistently within 30 seconds, then you could say you regularly get ‘attraction’ from doing direct.

Most people view girls having a good reaction = attraction, which is bullshit, the girl allowing you to touch her or agreeing to meet you with you again (and showing up) or going on a date with you right then and there is a better way to measure attraction.

‘It’s the best way to approach when starting out as it gives you the reference experiences needed to internalise that belief, which eventually leaks over into your core character and personality.”

What beliefs?

That if you compliment girls they will stop and give you good reactions?

That girls like you?

That you’re attractive?

Fucking girls gives most people the belief that girls like them and they have value, having girls stick around and want to be with you long term gives you the belief you’re attractive and have value.

The belief that you know how to get someones attention and hold it and make them think you have value also gives you a certain sort of situational and personal confidence, go and look at any infield video of Mystery and you’ll see he is a confident guy.

It takes a certain level of skill an calibration to move from being indirect to having a more personal conversation and then turning things sexual.

Any monkey can walk up and open directly, and it usually only works on girls who are similar to you in looks or less unless you can leverage some of your other social value (it works enough that they give you good reactions, but beyond that all you’ve done is validate her)

“I don’t recommend indirect to anyone starting out beyond improving their general communication skills. It assumes that you’re not attractive enough to tell a girl what you really think and that you have to ‘build value’ in order for her to appreciate it, which is terrible for your inner game.
What if you already had it?
The reality is, you do. You just need to give yourself the permission to have it.”

No sir.

Believing that you have to ‘build value’ is what makes you feel like you don’t have enough value.

I believe i already have enough, it’s just that every girl has a different life experience and personality and that for some I will need a longer amount of time to DISPLAY the value i already POSSESS.

On top of that, I need enough time to figure out what sort of value this girl will respond to the best/is looking for.

Despite popular belief:

Not all girls get wet in the panty just because some guy does the ‘mugger opener’ and says a compliment, for some girls they will think you do this regularly and if she just got played by a guy it will raise alarm bells in her head.

Onder Hassan
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It’s a never ending debate.

But I’m simply going by my and most of the guys in London’s experiences who swear by the direct stop.

I had reservations on it until recently when I started my 180-Day cold approach challenge in January. I did everything besides direct and it failed miserably.

Some might argue that its due to lack of game. But I honestly think its because ‘it lacks balls.’ And make no mistake. Girls can tell.

It doesn’t matter how you start a conversation with them, but every single one of them will naturally assume that you’re hitting on them. I posted a video on my blog to prove this with a live interaction.

So if anything, going indirect will ‘hurt’ a girl’s impression of you rather than help it.

It lacks balls personally and isn’t a great way to improve your inner game.

My inner game belief is this – “I have value, if you can’t see it, then you’ve misjudged me and not someone worth being with”

Fuck proving myself to make her see my value. Its typical supplicating behaviour.

Kane Vast
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“I had reservations on it until recently when I started my 180-Day cold approach challenge in January. I did everything besides direct and it failed miserably.”

So this more an example that YOU haven’t got a good handle on Indirect, not that indirect is ineffective – remember back in the old days everyone was going indirect and banging and all that.

There are still plenty of people using indirect now that succeed with it.

Heres an interesting thought:

I believe I have enough value that even if I open indirectly and a girl knows I’m hitting on her, she will still want to stay and talk to me.

Your value comes through your sub comms, not through your ‘opener’.

“Some might argue that its due to lack of game. But I honestly think its because ‘it lacks balls.’ And make no mistake. Girls can tell.”

I would say it’s more that most guys don’t have good enough subcomms/calibration/social IQ/confidence to get and hold the girls attention so they have to use direct openers/compliments to get her attention and get her interested.

Why do you think girls ‘want balls’ ?

They want a guy who is confident (good beliefs about himself, treats himself/others well), who makes them laugh and makes them emotional….you can do all of those by being direct and indirect.

“It doesn’t matter how you start a conversation with them, but every single one of them will naturally assume that you’re hitting on them. I posted a video on my blog to prove this with a live interaction.”

The good looking ones will, the ugly ones will think it’s some sort of trick or prank :D.

I totally agree with you that girls will assume you’re hitting on them……..so…?

You’re suggesting that making it obvious you’re hitting on them makes them like you more?

Girl’s like being hit on, they assume attraction and are very good at seeing if a guy is interested.

I don’t really get why you think being indirect makes a difference.

From what you’ve said so far I think that you probably have tried being indirect and not escalated things enough to show you’re sexual and non platonic interest in the girl.

Please post the video, i’d love to see it.

“So if anything, going indirect will ‘hurt’ a girl’s impression of you rather than help it..”

You’re assuming girls are ‘impressed’ by guys who say things directly and that that would hurt your results with the girl……

Yeah Complimenting girls straight up makes them respond well, it doesn’t mean they’ll fuck you.

The impression i want to give girls is this:

I am friendly, fun, intelligent, confident and more awesome than 99% of the guys you meet/know.

I don’t think my opener has much to do with that, I think my sub comms and if i kino her, make her laugh and how much or how little neediness comes through are EVERYTHING to do with that.

IMO the whole direct/indirect thing is a bit of a marketing tool.

“It lacks balls personally and isn’t a great way to improve your inner game.

Dude…your inner game shouldn’t be based on the reactions of women and how much they like you.

It should be based on the beliefs you have about yourself, those can be shaped by your experiences about women….but continuously behaving in a way to make women have good reactions to you makes you weaker when you suddenly get a bad reaction.

Being less direct makes you more used to pushing the interaction forward yourself rather than relying on the validation to do the work for you.

“My inner game belief is this – “I have value, if you can’t see it, then you’ve misjudged me and not someone worth being with”Fuck proving myself to make her see my value. Its typical supplicating behaviour””

As I said before – the more time you have to display your value the better, i.e your life, your personality, your social connections.

Why do you think it’s called ‘demonstrations of higher value’ instead of ‘proving my higher value’

You’re not trying to convince her, you’re merely DISPLAYING the value you already possess and some girls will like it some won’t, MM is designed to demonstrate value that is GENERALLY valued by women.

“1. Complimenting girls as an opener is pedestalization”

Who the fuck is she that I should be complimenting her? What did she do to earn my compliments and good will?

I am much more successful in life than 99% of women, I understand the world, myself and other people much better than they do………yet I should compliment her? Cause I want her attention?

I think complimenting her when all she did was put on a pretty dress, some make up and walk around outside like another lifeless zombie is supplication.

Onder Hassan
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I agree with a few of your points. Subcommunication is key and is what matters the most and not what you say verbally.

My point is, the direct stop is ideal for that reason alone as it subcommunicates masculinity and dominance.

Which type of guy would run past a girl and stop her from the front? Think about it.

The act itself is high value.

Kane Vast
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Giving people commands and being willing to interrupt them/prioritise your needs and desires over theirs communicates value, dominance and confidence, because if you were a pussy you wouldn’t dare to do any of those things.

Direct stopping doesn’t make her feel that you’re ‘masculine’ (what do you mean by that anyway? it’s so vague), it’s what you do afterwards i.e you be verbally dominant , and you kino her that makes you appear ‘masculine’.

Having a strong frame and being willing to apply it is what demonstrates dominance.

Which type of guy?

The type of guy who thinks he needs to do that particular action to demonstrate his apparent value.

I knew a guy who has done pick up for about 6 years now, he lived in China and I met him when I was about a year into pick up (3.5 years in now).

He spent a full year doing ‘direct’ because one of his friends did it and got results, he got 164 dates within this year and no sex.

When i saw him again, i told him to change how he was doing things and he suddenly started getting results, within the next year he slept with 20+ girls.

My point being:

He thought being ‘direct’ was ‘manly’ and would display his ‘masculinity’ and ‘dominance’ when in reality it just made girls give him a good reaction for the first little while, and then they would see it didn’t match the rest of his personality and feel really weirded out and not bang him.

It wasn’t ‘direct openers’ that fucked him up, it was this retarded belief that opening direct and getting a good reaction = something/attraction.

I’m seriously not trying to diss you or anything, i do appreciate that you’ve read my retardedly long replies but I have to tell you that I think the way you think about value is flawed.

You should check out KevinHogan.com

Girls are never going to go ‘Wow, his opener was really good/shit so i’m definitely gonna fuck him/reject him’

It’s all about the emotions you give her and if they’re congruent with your personality and suitable for the situation, I think both Roosh’s and my point is that there is no point in overdoing it just because it’s ‘manly’.

Onder Hassan
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Interesting points bro.

I am still learning and not suggesting that I know it all. Just going by what i’ve experienced so far and what’s worked ‘for me personally’ and what hasn’t.

So far, I facebook closed a Hollister model and number closed a Russian model who I have a date with on Saturday. Didn’t record it unfortunately but It means i’m doing something right so far.

I don’t disagree with you on the whole mate as i’m sure its solid advice. I just think game is individual to the person applying it.

Some people will lean more towards a certain type of game based on their personality and character. But that doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Just means they’re essentially doing what works for them.

My motto is. Try everything, keep what works for you and discard what doesn’t. Similar to the Bruce Lee quote.

Kane Vast
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Yeah, I completely agree with you on that.

“I don’t disagree with you on the whole mate as i’m sure its solid advice. I just think game is individual to the person applying it.”

Hence I’m not trying to say you’re doing it wrong, more trying to explain the concepts and theory’s clearly.

Onder Hassan
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So we’re both right smile
It was an interesting comparison of views. But I’ll take your advice on board for sure.
Thanks!

The Day Game
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Exactly what high value guy would run after a girl? NONE, cause he doesn’t chase women around like a headless chicken. I’ve done daygame.com approach and direct for 3 years only to realize exactly the 4 points desrribed in this article. Indirect works 10 times better. Girls follow up more and it puts them too much on the pedestal if you go direct. It maybe seem good to go so direct, but it does take a lot of warm up and meditation to go in direct. It’s just not a natural thing to do to just run after a girl like that. You can do it, but I do a more subtle natural stop at 45 or say excuse me as she’s walking past and the girls that stop to talk usually are the ones that answer the phone later. Once I stopped doing direct I get more girls answering my texts and phone calls. Think about the concept of validation harder and then tell me direct is the best or not.

Onder Hassan
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It really depends on the situation. I don’t limit myself to a particular style and use everything at my disposal – Direct, Indirect, front stop, side stop, streets, libraries, coffee shops etc.
It all depends on the girl and your surroundings. The trick is being able to calibrate it and tailor it to the girl. And that takes practice.

Kane Vast
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“I had reservations on it until recently when I started my 180-Day cold approach challenge in January. I did everything besides direct and it failed miserably.”

So this more an example that YOU haven’t got a good handle on Indirect, not that indirect is ineffective – remember back in the old days everyone was going indirect and banging and all that.

There are still plenty of people using indirect now that succeed with it.

Heres an interesting thought:

I believe I have enough value that even if I open indirectly and a girl knows I’m hitting on her, she will still want to stay and talk to me.

Your value comes through your sub comms, not through your ‘opener’.

“Some might argue that its due to lack of game. But I honestly think its because ‘it lacks balls.’ And make no mistake. Girls can tell.”

I would say it’s more that most guys don’t have good enough subcomms/calibration/social IQ/confidence to get and hold the girls attention so they have to use direct openers/compliments to get her attention and get her interested.

Why do you think girls ‘want balls’ ?

They want a guy who is confident (good beliefs about himself, treats himself/others well), who makes them laugh and makes them emotional….you can do all of those by being direct and indirect.

“It doesn’t matter how you start a conversation with them, but every single one of them will naturally assume that you’re hitting on them. I posted a video on my blog to prove this with a live interaction.”

The good looking ones will, the ugly ones will think it’s some sort of trick or prank :D.

I totally agree with you that girls will assume you’re hitting on them……..so…?

You’re suggesting that making it obvious you’re hitting on them makes them like you more?

Girl’s like being hit on, they assume attraction and are very good at seeing if a guy is interested.

I don’t really get why you think being indirect makes a difference.

From what you’ve said so far I think that you probably have tried being indirect and not escalated things enough to show you’re sexual and non platonic interest in the girl.

Please post the video, i’d love to see it.

“So if anything, going indirect will ‘hurt’ a girl’s impression of you rather than help it..”

You’re assuming girls are ‘impressed’ by guys who say things directly and that that would hurt your results with the girl……

Yeah Complimenting girls straight up makes them respond well, it doesn’t mean they’ll fuck you.

The impression i want to give girls is this:

I am friendly, fun, intelligent, confident and more awesome than 99% of the guys you meet/know.

I don’t think my opener has much to do with that, I think my sub comms and if i kino her, make her laugh and how much or how little neediness comes through are EVERYTHING to do with that.

IMO the whole direct/indirect thing is a bit of a marketing tool.

“It lacks balls personally and isn’t a great way to improve your inner game.

Dude…your inner game shouldn’t be based on the reactions of women and how much they like you.

It should be based on the beliefs you have about yourself, those can be shaped by your experiences about women….but continuously behaving in a way to make women have good reactions to you makes you weaker when you suddenly get a bad reaction.

Being less direct makes you more used to pushing the interaction forward yourself rather than relying on the validation to do the work for you.

“My inner game belief is this – “I have value, if you can’t see it, then you’ve misjudged me and not someone worth being with”Fuck proving myself to make her see my value. Its typical supplicating behaviour””

As I said before – the more time you have to display your value the better, i.e your life, your personality, your social connections.

Why do you think it’s called ‘demonstrations of higher value’ instead of ‘proving my higher value’

You’re not trying to convince her, you’re merely DISPLAYING the value you already possess and some girls will like it some won’t, MM is designed to demonstrate value that is GENERALLY valued by women.

“1. Complimenting girls as an opener is pedestalization”

Who the fuck is she that I should be complimenting her? What did she do to earn my compliments and good will?

I am much more successful in life than 99% of women, I understand the world, myself and other people much better than they do………yet I should compliment her? Cause I want her attention?

I think complimenting her when all she did was put on a pretty dress, some make up and walk around outside like another lifeless zombie is supplication.

Facts
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Direct can be extremely useful if you know how to do it. If you’re doing it the wrong way, of course you’re going to be disappointed…

Vincent Vinturi
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I agree with your conclusions regarding pedestalization and giving something (validation) for nothing as being a poor strategy.

However, I’d like to propose an alternate definition of direct game as I think this concept is very widely misunderstood.

Going direct doesn’t mean running up to girls and telling them “Hey! You’re gorgeous, holy shit I would love to see you spread eagle on my bed!”

Sure, that could work every now and then if you’ve got the vibe to back it up, but it’s generally an ineffective approach in the daytime.

What direct refers to is *intent*.

If your body language and subcommunications are making your intent unmistakably clear (“I want to fuck you”), then asking where a good sushi restaurant is can work just as well as anything else.

On the other hand, if you try to hide or disown the reason you’re talking to an attractive girl, it will come through. She’ll feel it and perceive it as weak.

It’s impossible to give a blanket suggestion because every situation has its own vibe and you’ve got to be attuned and aware and not try to force a square peg into a round hole.

But two openers that I’ve had good success with are:

1. “Hi. I saw you over here and wanted to come talk to you and find out who you are.”

This opener doesn’t cede any power. It’s pretty neutral. And it sets a frame of “You look good to me. Now let’s find out if we have any chemistry. If so, let’s explore it. If not, no worries, I’ll be on my way.”

2. “Hi. Who are you?”

This one is high-risk, high-reward. It requires strong body language and voice tone but you don’t want to sound like a dick. Just that you simply want to know who this woman is.

Some girls will recoil and look at you like “I’m ME. Who the fuck are you to qualify me like that?!”

Others will jump right through the hoop and you’ll have a lot of energetic momentum to carry the rest of the interaction.

But yeah, there’s no one-size fits all approach. Whatever works for one man, God bless.

Kane Vast
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agreed.

“If your body language and subcommunications are making your intent unmistakably clear (“I want to fuck you”), then asking where a good sushi restaurant is can work just as well as anything else.

On the other hand, if you try to hide or disown the reason you’re talking to an attractive girl, it will come through. She’ll feel it and perceive it as weak.”

Yeah, most people apparently think being ‘indirect’ means that you suppress your ‘intent’….which is not the case, it just means you open with something that isn’t directly about the girl/complimenting her.

JOHN
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If I use indirect, I can make 1 approach at most in 1 hour, because it depends on the situation and time. It should be seen from the girl as coincidence,as if I dont have any intention to approach to her, but im just there for a indirect reason.

If I use direct, there is no scenario building, Im just going and approaching. I can approach 6 different girls in 1 hour.

From time saving, direct enables to make more approaches, and I feel I am able to do it if I want. In indirect, I am dependent on the situtation, whether we will intersect at sideway or grocerystore etc.

Sometimes, im going out and I cant find any situation to approach to girl in an hour.

On other issues, I agree with Roosh.

Kane Vast
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………Then i think you seriously misunderstand indirect openers.

Krauser
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Seeing as I’ve had my name forever attached to direct daygame, I probably ought to chip in with my thoughts on this topic.

Roosh raises four specific problems that arise, and it’s true. If you go direct in the way it’s commonly conceived (“Hi, you’re gorgeous. Put your number in my phone” etc) then you will run into these obstacles.

The thing is, here in London we ran into these obstacles over and over again and that’s precisely why we adapted the model to deal with them. You don’t have to go back to hiding your intent, you simply have to be more finessed. What I mean is:

1.Complimenting girls as an opener is pedestalization

That’s why we adopt the compliment-tease on the open, and then do lots of framing, teasing and challenging in the vibing stage right after. The first two minutes contain alot of Push to balance the Pull. We aren’t trying to sell her with the statement of intent alone (i.e. “I just said I like you, so now you have to decide if you like me”), the SOI is meant to set the frame, convey confidence, create an impact and mostly just hijack her mind for long enough to stop her feet and get her talking. It’s called flirting and the Community didn’t invent it.

2. Direct openers put girls on a temporary high

Agreed, and that’s the point. The LDM is designed to sweep women off their feet and create a larger-than-life impression. That’s precisely how a man can pull girls who would normally be out of this league (such as 38-yr old me averaging girls aged 25 and hot). We subsequently advise dialling down the energy and filtering to prevent timewaster girls who simply get off on the validation. I call them WindowShoppers and have a page in my book on how to filter them out.

3. It takes a huge amount of state preparation

In the beginning, yes. Once you get good at direct daygame you become so used to conveying intent throughout the interaction that it no longer seems a big deal. Of course you’re going to put yourself on the line and risk the ego-death of rejection, it just ceases to matter because your ego is trained to take it. Beginners quite rightly find it hard to get their state ready to approach. After a while it becomes easy. I also write about stateless game, which fits seamlessly into both direct and indirect.

http://krauserpua.com/2013/05/13/stateless-game/

4. Running after girls is pedestalization

This is the only objection I disagree with. I read it alot on US blogs and think it’s over-compensating against a history of being LJBF’d / tooled by women. Perhaps the US really is that bad for dating compared to Europe. Once you become congruent with conveying intent pedestalisation doesn’t have any meaning. If Roosh had written “Running after girls risks over-investing” then I’d 100% agree. That’s why we open based on a mythology (to justify making the effort with that particular girl), tease (to kick down the pedestal) and dial down the energy (to even up the investment).

Roosh knows what works for him so I’m not gainsaying that. I’ve read Day Bang and I can see it working. I personally use whatever mix of direct, indirect, indirect-direct that suits the occasion. However, I’d agree more enthusiastically with the post if it was titled “4 common traps for intermediate direct daygamers”.

Direct daygame is not a magic pill, but those partciular problems have been solved. Daygame Mastery explains it all (plug!)

Ninja man
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When is the book available on Kindle? I respect both Roosh and Krauser, bought all of Roosh’ books never bought Krauser, look forward to it.

Onder Hassan
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Krauser explained this much better than I did. I completely agree.

supramax
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I’d classify myself as something of a low intermediate/beginner with daygame and indeed I find there is a whole lot of nuance with it. Krauser explains/scratches the surface with some of the important nuances above. I got his book and from what I’v read so far I think anyone interested in this subject better too. I’d doubt you’ve ever read an instruction manual/textbook that all encompassing. I get the impression that he sucked Tom Torero’s brain dry with it too and that guy did not go to Oxford for nothin’.
I’m gonna say this though: In the USA my daygame dates have been predominantly with Eastern European women. Not all, but the vast majority. I don’t always know they are Eastern European when I approach (sometimes yes) but the approach (couple hundred I guess) and date sample is now large enough for me to say that at least in the major USA city I live in Eastern European women respond better, at least to non-black belt (I cannot comment on the efficacy of black belt master daygame on American women), more beginner daygame, than American women. I think there’s something in their culture that’s accepting of masculine men & being very direct.
I’ll say something else: this daygame Sh*t is a breath of fresh air for me. Every time I compare it to small talking/indirect to a girl at a crosswalk waiting for the walk sign or some such I’m reminded how I much prefer having a woman stopped, facing me, with her total attention riveted on what I have to say. I remember when Yad sent me on my first approach in a daygame.com bootcamp running after some girl down the stairs and scolded me when I didn’t…..follow her into a store? I remember the confused/’you’re weird’ look of the first 2 girls I approached as they didn’t even stop and then on the next (2nd) stop how friendly some girl was and then shortly thereafter Yad seeing some French model in the distance dressed to the 9’s, running about 1/4 kilometer around a fenced off area to get to her, talking to her and watching her motion for him to walk with her which he did, only stopping to face her, point to us and say he had to rejoin us before taking her number and I thought, “Ok there’s something to this”.
Daygame involves a whole lot of getting your own internals/mindset/inner game under control which as important a contribution to a guys life as getting laid. I’ll paraphrase something I recall Krauser wrote in his blog “Want to know your value ? The truth is on the street”.

redblue
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Thank you for this comment, Krauser. I’m also from Europe and I think that all US-based blogs (Roosh, CH, Rollo, …) can only partially be applied to the european dating scene.

Lucas
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Excuse me, but what is “LDM”?

Giovonny
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I love direct day game because its fun for me.

But, I admit, statistically speaking, I probably do better with indirect.

All styles are tools. Use the tool that will allow you to get the job done.

We all have our favorite tools for certain jobs.

For me, direct is like “Art”, I don’t always get paid to do it but i love doing it and I feel that it nourishes and empowers me.

Great to hear Roosh’s insights on this.

If you do go direct, own the fuck out of it and come FROM A PLACE OF SUPERIORITY!!!

You are an alpha choosing a play thing.

JJ Roberts
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> Complimenting girls as an opener is pedestalization

You don’t need to compliment them to be direct. You can open with “Hey I saw you walking past and I decided you are cute enough to talk to so I came over to find out if you were a cool person or not”.

You can also compliment from a place of high value in a way that is not supplicating at all in an “I am cool, you seem cool” kind of way.

> Direct openers put girls on a temporary high

I don’t find this to be a problem. The typical reaction I get is pleasant suprise. This is never negative.

> It takes a huge amount of state preparation

This is a major issue for guys who lack confidence or daygame experience. I recommnend in-direct game for guys who are feeling a little short of experience or confidence.

State and being ‘in state’ is a complete non issue for me when doing direct day game. To me its not more nervy than asking for directions.

I see attractive woman. I go talk to attractive woman. It’s an immediate reaction. I don’t worry or think what to say. I just say whats on my mind.

> Running after girls is pedestalization

How is going after something that YOU WANT pedestalisation? That doesn’t make sense. It’s only pedestalisation if you are running after her to tell her how special she is.

Personally I excluviely do direct day game when I do it. It removes all of the in-authenticity from the interaction and its shows women that you are a man that has the balls to be connected to his masculine and to act on it.

Tom Dane
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Running after and complement a girl in broad daylight = giant fucking pussy who need to get balls.

bariserkan
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I’ve always thought direct game meant something general like ‘being direct with your intentions from the beginning’ instead of ‘complimenting from the beginning’.

Lu
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I think you should publish an honest blog about STDs. You are not addressing them anywhere on your site and your readers need to understand dangerous of a lifestyle you are propagating. You should address them one by one: HIV, HERPES, HPV, GONORRHEA, SYPHILIS, CHLAMYDIA, TRICHOMONIASIS, HEPATITIS C, PELVIC INFLAMMATORY DISEASE, and other serious diseases.

Leroy X
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WHat about the guys who kiss almost total strangers in their approach-now that’s direct game.

This video is cool and the women are quality-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTuBf4BrIgE

anonymous
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Notice that most of these videos poop out right after the kiss. In other words, unless you’re meeting a ridiculously horny and desperate woman, the kiss is more than enough to validate her and satisfy her ego (and have her defense mechanisms engage), and you won’t get further often.

Leroy X
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Uncle Roosh-

Youv’e complained about night and online game too.

So the bulk of your game now is indirect day game (I would presume in Eastern Europe)?

Sans night game and youthful energy-if your’e honest you have less action now right?

My 2 cents is between the age of 27-32 the mind and body of a man come together and peak and he is at an age where College girls (freshest meat) and cougars (many old dogs have alot of tricks-haters can hate but its true) dig him.

Botttom Line-about the ass EVERYONE wants- and yeah I hate AMerica’s ageism so no white knight on my idea———-is……………………………………………………

Realistically, how many college age girls dig 35 yo guys even if they are in shape????????

Eastern Europe might give a 10-12 year break but Americans are uptight.

When I was in American college at 19yo I could spot a 27 or 28 yo student a mile away. They stand out in kiddie land of cheap beer, dorm rooms, crappy house parties, and generalized asinine theory that costs at least 5k for 5 months-where all the freshest and ripest meat is stored.

van der merwe
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You are over analysing. Roosh CAN NOT get laid,he is bad at it.Therefore he comes up with all this mental masturbation.

I know tons of men in their 30-40 who successfully do day game,night game and so on and not even a shadow of a thought crosses their mind.

But for that you need looks (roosh is ugly),status (roosh has none),social skills (self explanatory).

Quintus Curtius
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It has a lot of merit overseas, but here in the US it seems to have been superseded by other methods and technologies. Use sparingly, when in the mood.

Brad Turner
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I want to fuck

seaAltair
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Direct is perhaps the most misunderstood topic in the community, likely because its competent teachers aren’t well marketed.

1) Complimenting girls as an opener is pedestalization

Direct is MORE than just a compliment opener. It’s a whole different APPROACH that entails genuinely speaking your mind from beginning to end.

Her first impression should equal you find her sexually attractive and would like to know her better. Your approach lets her know if she ultimately meets your standards, she’s in danger of being fucked.

The better you are at conveying dominance and behaving like a sexual threat, the better your direct game will be. Being dominant and sexual informs her that you’re only interested in her as a woman. From here she has two options. She can either continue talking to you or get the hell away.

I don’t know what Roosh does after his verbalizes the compliment that make these bitches so happy. in my experience, women who were disinterested didn’t thank me or have their eyes light up after my direct openers. They would simply get uncomfortable and end the interaction with some generic logistical excuse. The only significant piece of validation is your dick in her.

It seems Roosh places a lot of value on compliments, so when he hands them out the girl finds it valuable. Then they get real happy as they bask in his validation.

2) Direct openers put girls on a temporary high

This is interesting because direct acts as a screening mechanism in my experience. Women who didn’t like me would be intimidated by my desires and continue on their way.

From what I know of Roosh, he grew up on the Mystery Method, which is as indirect as you can be. Perhaps his indirect habits seep into his direct open and convert his frame into an indirect one.

One of my friends is a devout follower of indirect. The typical indirect guy is much more entertaining and intellectually stimulating. I’ve seen him have long sets that went nowhere simply because girls can enjoy being around a man without wanting to fuck him. Would you talk to a fun cool guy even though you aren’t going to fuck him? Probably. Indirect can be like that with all of its DHVs, ultra witty lines, and cool stories.

In contrast, I keep the entertainment to a bare minimum as I focus on being dominant and sexual instead. If she can’t handle my behavior, then our interaction will be too short for her feel validated. I don’t continue validate her with compliments after the opener unless she genuinely deserves one.

Indirect frame = I must give her a reason to like me
Direct frame = She must give a reason beyond her looks for me to like her

I’ve had a few direct approached sets in the past that did nothing but validate her. It happened because I decided to plow on despite her genuine objection.

Wouldn't you like to know
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Telling a girl you think she is cute is no big deal in my opinion. In my mind it shows confidence. It’s how you look at it. Any game works as long as you are cool with it; if you aren’t then it’ll come across. If you think direct game is “putting women on pedestals” then you’re probably right; if you think direct game is “showing confidence” then you’re also probably right.

Both methods work. However, if you go direct you are SCREENING much harder for real dates instead of “friend dates”. I’ve gone indirect so many times that I’ve personally encountered many times on a “date” the girl think we are meeting un a friend context, which is ultimately a waste of both our time. I have learned making your intention known–that you are sexually interested in her–is a time saver as it screens girls who are interested, so when you meet on a date it’s a REAL date.

Sure, you can go indirect and have her think it’s under a friend context since you didn’t show your intent, but when it comes time to bounce her around on the date then you run a much larger risk of her objecting. Go direct in the day (or night) and save yourself the hassle later on.

However, if you are going for the SDL/SNL then as long as you can get her into a position for sex and you lead properly then it doesn’t really matter. Ultimately, in this instance, you are going to show your sexual intent anyway, but not necessarily off the bat.

All arguments about which method “indirect” or “direct” is almost pointless because either works, but the main thing to consider is if you want to screen or not. You can run to the girl; you can walk to the girl; you can shout; you can whisper; you can look like a fool; you can maintain poise; but all that matters is how YOU feel. Once again, if you feel insecure then your chances will drop as you will not be as on point and she will you as “weaker” and insecure. Heck, you don’t even have to really speak too much and have it work if your physical game is good and you are confident.

What it all comes down to is how you feel. Do you feel insecure or secure? How practiced/honed are you? Are you congruent to your actions and thoughts (do you feel somewhat natural and fluid)? If your “inner game” is solid then you can do anything. If your inner game is shit then you will struggle more. That’s all there is to it.

crack
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crack
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Roosh whining and complaining as usual.
have you found a new country to run to,looser?i suggest Somali lol

van der merwe
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Summing up the “writings” of Roosh:
-I can’t get laid in USA i should run to abroad;
-I can’t get laid in a developed country,I should run to a poor one (where green card has value);
-Night game sucks,I only do day game;
-Day game sucks;
-Polish women are no good,they are “westernised” and all other crap;

Expected soon: Ukrainian women are “bad”,all women in the world are “bad”.

I bet roosh will commit a suicide by his 40 or turn gay (probably already is a latent one).

Fred
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Summing up:

1. “Complimenting girls as an opener is pedestalization”

You dont open with compliment, just some random shit about how you saw her walking by and got curious as to who she was. Tease her by saying interesting people turn you on, not looks, smirk, smirk*.*.*

2. “Direct openers put girls on a temporary high”

This is what its all about, your masculine and dominating energy will make her so high that her panties will get so wet and slide off keeping her wanting more (of your attention). Key is to have confidence of steel, youre a wolf on steroids and shes a sheep.

3. “It takes a huge amount of state preparation”

Direct Game is not for the faint of heart nor the overanalytical ones. Use your basic masculine instincts is the best way. Youre a guy and u want to fuck, aint nothing more natural than that.

4. “Running after girls is pedestalization”

Disagree, after all this is her golden chance to prove herself worthy of a more powerful breed’s attention and sexual interest. And, “It’s just not an elegant or low-key way to meet women” Who the h*** wants to be elegant, I leave that bit out to gays and white knights. The advective Im looking for is brutal. When direct game is done correctly the girl will just wake up with sperm running out her vagina wondering what the h*** happened.

Nick
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There are always more attractive women that you’ll see walking around than will happen to be seated next to you or standing in place. If you want them you have to pursue them. The state preparation is necessary and difficult, but after a couple hundred approaches it’s not a big deal. Most guys will never have the stomach for that kind of rejection though, which is admittedly brutal on your ego, but makes approaching thereafter, in just about any situation, relatively easy. In the end, who cares as long as you get her number, date her and bang her?

For any prospective day gamers out there, don’t give up on it until you’ve done at least 100 approaches over a short period (1-2 weeks), making notes on each approach and using a good resource like Krauser’s or something from Daygame.com. You’ll learn more about yourself and women than you ever imagined.

JQ
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I will never forget the words of my friend’s wife, he picked her up in the open day in a crowded environment. She said “The world belongs to those who dare.” That is what direct day game is: knowing what you want and going for it without hesitation.

XXL
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XXL
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This post is not about direct day game, it’s about flaws of opening with a compliment. It’s not the same

anonymous
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I’ve had an equally difficult time with the indirect/elderly method, if only because, no matter how dim women are, I cannot believe that they don’t know the real reason why you’re approaching them. It’s a silly charade. There’s no real plausible deniability, other than in your own head.

While direct is difficult as well, at least it cuts to the chase.

Bruno
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Hey Roosh, what an awesome article! I’m really glad that you’ve wrapped it up by pointing out that it all comes down to our enjoyment in whatever game we’re involved in because that’s the only best way to enjoy seduction.

Bruno @PickUpFlow

practicalh
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These are all good observations, but I would like to point out that not all compliments are the same and not all of them put a girl on a pedestal.
Saying “you are the most beautiful girl I have ever seen” etc… is a really bad pedestalizing compliment. However, pointing out something different about her and even indirectly criticizing others while doing that is a great ice-breaker. For instance, if you see a girl who is sitting by herself without reaching for her phone when her friend went to the bathroom at a cafe or elsewhere, you can say: “I don’t remember the last time I saw girl not go for her phone and text while her friend left for a bathroom.” You can be sure that no guy has ever said that to her before, drunk or sober.

Pinguin
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“I noticed you have a sad walk” … lol

20th Level
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I think you are a little off the mark on your definition if direct game Roosh.

Direct game is nothing more than the fact that you make your intentions known BEFORE you attempt to build a rapport wuth her instead of going indirect and making your intentions known AFTER you have built a rapport with her.

Your opener doesn’t necessarily have to be a compliment to make your intentions known.

ryan
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I’ve done daygame for a couple years now pretty consistently and I’ve had long internal debates about direct vs indirect.

My conclusion after years thinking about this is to use both, whatever mood or situation presents itself. They both have their place. Practice both and then social intelligence and your experience will dictate which one to use in the present moment.

I’ve always associated direct with a man’s communication style — honest, uncreative, scientific, blunt. And indirect with a woman’s communication style — wishy-washy, creative, artistic, feeling things out. They both have their place.

Indirect –
1. use when a woman’s trapped next to you. For example, you’re flying on a plane and a hot girl is next to you. Ask her how long the flight is and get into a conversation. It’d be weird to tell her you think she’s cute. It puts way too much pressure on the situation. Similarly, woman waiting next to you in line, women sitting next to you in subway station, woman browsing a shelf next to you in supermarket or retail store, woman sitting next to you at the bar, etc.
2. use when you’re unsure if you’re attracted to a woman. sometimes you just want to engage them in neutral conversation to see what they’re like this especially rings true when a girl is not a 10, but rather a 7 and you’d rather not hand her your balls without feeling what she’s like.
3. Use when there’s alot of people around. Girls like discretion.

Direct –
1. use when a woman’s walking past you like on the street. (although indirect can work here too if you walk next to her with an indirect comment, or just stop her indirectly with directions). Direct can generally work when you’re trying to catch up to a girl because you don’t want to beat around the bush why you’ve stopped her. Direct is always pretty good when a woman seems in a hurry and you’re in a hurry too.
2. Use when a woman’s super hot, that way it comes across as genuine.
3. Use when a woman is standing or sitting alone somewhere and you approach her, and there’s not alot of onlookers or people listening. Or even if it’s a busy street and it’s just too loud and frantic to notice you talking to her.

With indirect though, be very careful not to be too indirect. Like in a supermarket, if you go too indirect and ask how to cook a salad that woman will think you’re weird if you don’t transition quickly into a personal conversation or if you don’t show a direct intent in talking to her. Best to be indirect but direct in her understanding that you’re generating a personal conversation about her: “Wow, you look like you’re a good cook I’ve never seen so many spices before in one’s basket…” so you’re engaging her on a personal level as opposed to “Hey, do you know if this tastes any good?” which is purely indirect. although people that know how to transition effectively can pull off pure indirect openers quite nicely.

lastly, see this as a spectrum or gradient. on the far left you have indirect (let’s designate with white), on the far right you have direct (let’s designate with black) and it’s a spectrum where there’s alot of grey area in between. The grey area can be considered friendly conversation, engaging her on a personal level which can be very effective.
So pure indirect (white) – know where there’s a coffee shop around here? (not including her in the opener)
friendly or situational (grey) – wow, I really like your coat.. where’d you get it? (including her in the opener, but not her physical self, just her clothes)
direct (black) – hey, I thought you were really cute..

I think the best is to just try to engage the woman in conversation any way you can. the biggest problem in daygame is just having the motivation to strike up a conversation with a stranger. sometimes I feel more indirect, sometimes I feel more direct. But as long as I’m starting the conversation in any way, that’s all that really counts. A man should know all types of ways to start a conversation since it is his duty to do so.

Nick Ellis
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“i noticed you have a sad walk” lmao

Otherguy
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I agree that from a good indirect approach, per example in a train you normally get a more solid number and I’m also using this situational stuff, when I have time anyway.
But isn’t indirect mich more inefficient when you really go out for daygame? I talk 10-20 min until I find out if she is single or not. If I do direct, I say after 1 or 2 min s.th. like “are you allowed to talk to me at all” with a smile and get to know if she is single and also if she says she is, I’d count it as a statement of interest. This saves me much time, cause I only talk longer to a girl who’s single and more or less interested.
Of course the results per approach will be a little worse then when I would do indirect/situational but in my mind they are much better per time I spend.

NEP
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I would submit that the fact you are approaching her at all is, in a sense, placing her on a pedestal. After all, you’re picking her out of all the other potentials. However, this is the wrong way to view this from the start. The approach is the compliment in a way, so whether you go direct or indirect is inconsequential. The crux of the issue is whether or not she understands what’s really going on and if she’s into it.

I would also suggest that “running after her” whether literal or figurative, is simply an expression of your desire. Whether you approach her while she’s idle or in motion will determine the way you must behave in that aspect. In either scenario, if you are expressing your interest, you’re going after what you want. The strength I see in direct is that your intent and interest isn’t hidden. You’ve displayed these things, as well as the fact you don’t beat around the bush. Direct is attractive because of these things.

Personally, just telling someone they look nice doesn’t put them on a pedestal. It’s something you could say to anyone, male or female. It’s when people take it to the extremes, using words like hot, sexy, stunning or beautiful, where its too much, too soon that is where the whole pedestal thing comes in.

The circumstances should dictate whether you go direct or indirect. If you’re sitting idle, next to her, indirect. If you see her shopping, direct. I see direct as being more efficient when time is a factor.

The point of the article though I agree with. Do what you feel comfortable with. If add, be ready to use either one and let the circumstances guide your methods.

ganicus
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ganicus
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or you can just be indirect-direct (verbally indirect, Subcommunication direct) wink

Gelo
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I can say Authentic/Manipulative is a better label than direct/indirect.

For example:

You saw a hot girl:
You : “where is this (place)?”

As long as it is your real intention, it is NOT indirect. It’s Authentic.

But hiding your intention, that is manipulative.

Why do we hide our intention?
Because we don’t want the woman to be on the pedestal. We don’t want to risk. We are protecting our ego instead of being vulnerable.

” A man who knows he is fearful is stronger than the one who hides it.”

About putting the woman on the pedestal, it’s up to her.

The reason we guys study this whole notion of “Pick-Up Artist” is because we want to be better “than others” instead of focusing on ourselves to be better than we used to be.

We shouldn’t be answering the demands of what the women in the society are asking just because it is effective/useful and it rewards us. Because if we continue to feed those “MANIPULATIVE WOMEN” or “MANIPULATIVE PEOPLE” around us. They will not cease to deceive us.

p.s

There are a lot of guru’s out there will teach you because:

– it will profit their financial life or:
– they really want to help you get past your fears.

” FOR A MAN TO CONQUER HIMSELF IS THE FIRST AND NOBLEST OF ALL VICTORIES.” -PLATO

Be better than before. Give value, don’t demonstrate. because people must naturally see your value. CALIBRATE, CALIBRATE, CALIBRATE. It’s your game and only you can see what works best for yourself. smile

Pantalones
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Gay

Runan
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Runan
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This Article is SHIT.. I’ve Done Direct game and gotten laid so much more than doing Indirect game…

DJ
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DJ
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In my opinion direct approaches during the day are mostly B.S. It’s FAKE! How many times do you really feel the urge to literally run after a girl cause you just have to inform her of how breathtaking her beauty is. It’s ridiculous and fake. The truth is you probably don’t really feel that way and if you do you’re probably nuts. I might run after a super hot pornstar, but most girls during the day are definitely not super hot pornstars. Most direct approaches are just cheesy and try-hard. Not only that it puts a lot of pressure on the girl and makes it awkward for her. Imagine going up to a girl at a quiet coffee shop and opening with “Hey, I thought you were so cute I just had to meet you” in front of everyone. It puts way too much pressure on her and creates a tense situation.

In a low key day time approach it is a better approach is to start off indirect, calibrate her level of interest and then if she is somewhat interested and happy talking to you maybe give her some light verbal compliment. Showing intent should be done in a calibrated way. You only show the level of intent that you can get away with and that the girl will be comfortable with. Otherwise it’s what they call “premature escalation”.

Greg Logan
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You don’t recommend it because you are a pussy. I’m feeling the fear and pain of it every single day but having a new hb 8-9-10 girlfriend every single month because of direct daygame. Don’t listen to this guy, I’m using indirect shit just to warm up with the girls I’m not into.

Rafalus
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Good article and I understand what author meant. I have been doing daygame approaches for a nearly a year.
Direct indirect for me now mean displaying intent verbally and non verbally (eye contact, body language to stop her ect).

I think now, how strong (the intent) should be the opener depends how much power you need to stop the girl. Calibration.
In my experience fast moving girl on the street needs to be hit (by the opener) stronger that a girl who sat next to you in the tube and you know she’s gonna be there for next few minutes.

PS.. when I am in the good mood fun vibe, I can open (verbally) the girls with anything: fruit’a, mirinda, did you win it, I love your bitchy face, red lips…. and I think they are quite direct openers.

Tony
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You know I’ve had success with both direct and indirect. I’m quite observant so I make a lot of comments about what I notice. I’ve just bought daybang and I must say it’s very interesting. Has some really useful tips. Stuff I have actually used and strong emphasis on using bait to get invested.

I love indirect because it doesn’t put too much pressure on the girl to decide whether she’s interested or not. Also it’s a lot more natural then running after girls like a clown. Although the London guys have a lot of success. I know both methods are effective but it also comes down to the situation and girl.

The problem is not many people teach indirect game. It’s a shame because most guys think you have to go direct but they are limiting themselves.

Jay Hurley
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I couldn’t disagree more with this article. Why would you approach a woman to talk about her shoes, or ask for a shop? You’re not interested in that shit. You’re not there for that. It takes guts to actually say what your intention is. And so what if she gets a boost out of it? I think it is more beta to spend your life worrying about whether or not someone got some cheap emotional stimulation from you than to actually find your nut sack and lay the cards on the table. I have had way more success with direct day game than in-direct day game or indirect night game, and I plan to stick with it.

Tommy the Tiger
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Fellas, I’d like to point something out noone has mentioned. If you look at the YouTube videos of most of these PUA’s, you’ll notice they’re all daygaming in London, NYC, or LA. To get good at daygame, you must interact with a large volume of women on a regular basis. Most American cities simply don’t have the kind of foot traffic I see in many of these videos. Why is nobody talking about this?