4 Things I Don’t Like About Indirect Day Game

Previously I wrote some reasons why I don’t prefer direct day game. It’s time to turn my criticisms to indirect day game, a method I teach in Day Bang, by sharing some of its weaknesses. Here are a few things I dislike:

1. It’s more boring and repetitive

While it’s easier to open than direct, your conversation will—at least in the beginning—be more boring. After your 100th time asking a girl where a certain landmark is, you’ll be wondering if you can maintain the energy to feign interest in the topic until you can get to the good stuff.

For this reason, it’s smart to rotate your indirect openers so that you don’t have opening fatigue. I retired my pet shop opener after using it for so long and I’m on the verge of retiring my supermarket opener. Next up in the pipeline is a public library opener, where I’m sure the girl will see the immense value of me wanting to read books and study philosophical matters.

2. It’s less congruent

The reason you’re approaching a girl is because you want to have sex with her, but when you open indirect, you are putting a temporary brick between your penis and her vagina. It may be hard for some guys to keep their eyes on the prize when they’re rambling about coffee shops or whatever, but this is what indirect requires you to do at the beginning.

Then again, anything short of opening with “Let’s fuck” is not 100% congruent, but direct game has less acting in that you are being more warm about your sexual intent. Just be aware of guys who say they use direct but open with a line about a girl’s hat before bantering about style. I still consider that indirect since it has no connection to your sexual desire.

3. You display less sexual power

Indirect requires you to bullshit asexually before delivering a statement of intent that you want to get to know her. This has the danger of putting you more in an “outgoing guy” box than a “raw masculine powerful” box, though you can combat this by having strong body language and eye contact. Nonetheless, it’s harder for normal guys to come across as bold or confident with indirect openers. It will require you at some point to make the switch from being merely chatty to escalating sexually before too¬†much time has passed.

4. You have to worry about approach timing

If you want to go indirect on the street, you have to arrange a casual collision that doesn’t make it seem like you targeted her specifically. Sometimes this is impossible, especially if a girl passed you, meaning that a direct approach would then be required.

Indirect is most powerful indoors (cafes, shops, supermarkets, gyms, and bookstores) where there is a lot of context to aid in a more natural conversation and where failing with direct has a greater risk of being noticed by staff or security personal. For example, I can go indirect every day in my favorite cafe because I’m “just being chatty” or “outgoing,” but if I went direct then a cockblocking staff member may complain to management. Direct is better suited for the street, the venue where it has been honed by guys who don’t like coffee shops as much as I do.

There is great value in both indirect and direct day approaching, and any player worth his salt should be able to effortlessly open with either based on the situation (I currently estimate that about 65% of my day approaches are indirect). I recommend newbies start with indirect day game, which has a shorter learning curve, can be used in any venue, and gives you conversational practice even on girls who aren’t too attracted to you. Once you get comfortable with it, dabble in direct to offer you more refinement for street approaching, especially in foreign countries where direct game is more useful than in America.

Read Next: 7 Things You Can Do To Improve Your Game Right Now

Related Posts For You

newest oldest most voted
KaneVast
Guest
KaneVast
Offline

First.

desbest
Guest
desbest
Offline

First to say first. last to get laid.

KaneVast
Guest
KaneVast
Offline

Luckily I only typed it.

Libertas
Guest
Libertas
Offline

I prefer direct day game myself. Another reason you should mention is that your opener is less certain. I believe that when approaching a girl (with all the uncertainties that pop up in your mind) you must be certain about something and your opener is that certainty. A direct opener is easier to be certain of than an indirect one.

Nonetheless, there are times when a direct opener isn’t very socially appropriate, and with the cold weather coming there will be less opportunities to go direct because girls aren’t going to be outside. I think going direct in a Starbucks is usually not a good idea.

Now would be a good time to look into Day Bang I think, but does anyone have some simple, generic indirect openers they use for situations like that?

R James
Guest
R James
Offline

I like it too but its not fun when it turns into confronting white knight clown security game or robo cop dressed pigs have been called for harrassment game or Muay Thai moves needed now game or hopefully never call a lawyer and have bail money game because of socialist gender troll legislation game
at one of the many useless legislative bodies in the USSA.

prepz
Guest
prepz
Offline

Agreed. The only reason I day game is you meet women who aren’t necessarily out whoring it up with her friends. There are pros and cons to women you meet in venues other than clubs.

The biggest downside I see is that while you’re going indirect day game, there’s potential for a dude with strong direct game to swoop you. If I could successfully escalate a day game encounter into a night game situation leading to a ONS, then that would be the best of both worlds. I’ve mentioned afternoon game, that starts out as day game, but then become instant date in a night game situation with full on escalation. That’s worked int he past, sans the bang the same night.

Ian
Guest
Ian
Offline

Roosh and the commentors
Are girls you meet in more bland places (bookstore, coffee shop, etc) more likely to be good girls aka not used up loose hos?

Libertas
Guest
Libertas
Offline

I really don’t think there’s a specific way of knowing. The more likely answer is that you’ll get girls that are in a different state than during night game.

The advantage is that you won’t have to compete with the various cockblockers that night game provides and are more likely to find a girl that would be in a more demure state and she will categorize you as such (hence she will likely act more demure around you given the context in which you met her).

The disadvantage is if you want to get laid fast, since girls at night are much more amenable to hooking up that night.

prepz
Guest
prepz
Offline

Yes, bland places such as Starbucks, Panera, etc are great spots for engaging targets.

No. If you want a “good” girl, go to church and get them young and virgin, while they still have some shred of morality and character. Trouble is that’s easily eroded by the time they hit puberty if they’re a product of the western public education system. That what I did, and still ended up with an delusional irresponsible dependopotamus.

Now, Starbucks is worldwide. So if I had not been with my kids in Tokyo at any of the numerous Starbucks there, I would have run game there just to see the results. I certainly was getting enough looks from the girls, even much younger girls (I’m old) to say there’s a lot of potential there. And, if it’s there, it’s in coffee shops, cafes and bookstores round the world.

prepz
Guest
prepz
Offline

Jsut keep escalating — even in your day game. That’s why I like starting in the mid afternoon, chatting up a girls until one clicks, and then venue changing to a nearby happy hour. If the girl resists, then get a number if you want, but I generally don’t anymore. I’d rather find another girl who’s ready to have fun, because that’s all I want anyway. If I don’t pull anyone to happy hour with me, then I just go solo and shift into early night game, which I’ll escalate with a venue change to another hotter lounge or to her place for “cheap” drinks and the bang. This keeps everything in the 3-5 hour period of focus on escalation and closing the deal. Anything else to me is just a waste of my time.

This hybrid day/early pm game It also has the important advantage of keeping costs per orgasm (CPO) as low as any other type of game. If a girl wants retail priced drinks, I’ll just tell her I don’t have the money because I’m donating all my extra cash to breast cancer or some Amerifem cause. There’s more to it, but that’s what I prefer over pure day game vs pure night game. But then I’m old and have to be in bed by 10pm. Ha

Corey Graham
Guest
Corey Graham
Offline

“No. If you want a “good” girl, go to church and get them young and virgin…”

The biggest slut I know is a church girl. Do not underestimate the rationalization hamster e.g. “Anal doesn’t count hehe.”

prepz
Guest
prepz
Offline

Oh yes, no doubt. Church provides the greatest hamster rationalization of all — absolution! That’s why Catholic girls can be so loose so young. I’m just sayin that the only hope to fine *one* out of the slut load that perhaps hasn’t jumped off the deep end. And, that must be done as a young man before turning 18 these days or risk a Stat. rape charge.

Bottom line, it’s a no-win situation here in the west. But I did provide and answer to the “good girl” question.

G Ron
Guest
G Ron
Offline

Where can a man win at?

I don’t wanna be around masculine women, commies, homosexuals, etc.

Why can’t people just be normal- marry a nice girl, go to Church, serve God, mind their own business, etc.?

I will say this Marxist social revolution- porn, feminism, no fault divorce, etc. is the source of a ton of misery and the West took that global banker hat trick bait hook, line, and sinker and now we are all pretty miserable. All that is the work of the devil not God- and that’s real talk.

prepz
Guest
prepz
Offline

Well G Ron, that’s the modern male’s million dollar question. I’m sorry to say that I rode the wave on the decline in the 80’s marrying my HS sweetheart, and that still went bust because, even though faithful tradition somewhat religious girl, she was still infected by western women entitlement, expecting to be taken care of like Cinderella by a rich Prince Charming. Two decades of that was enough for me before ending it.

So, I really don’t now where you win. The hope for me,even as a more mature fellow, is that there are pockets of of unspoiled territory overseas. But I’m not holding out much hope for young men who are looking for the traditional marriage and kids life. The entire world is infected with our fatal ebola-esque feminism virus.

Remember, misery is profitable to evil men, and it creates dependents of even strong men. So be strong and stay strong and let the women come to you and prove themselves as worth of your attention.

Pete
Guest
Pete
Offline

I’ve seen some very attractive women in the mainstream coffee shops too and they have a natural beauty look to them where in my best local
Club the hottest girls there if you look real close- have rough faces even if they have great bodies and sexy clothes. The coffee house woman is a different breed. I wish I was a little younger because college campus fitness center is the Mecca of fresh, quality talent.

prepz
Guest
prepz
Offline

Exactly. That’s a great benefit of day game. You’re not relying on beer googles and dim lighting to get a girl’s score above 7.

Fitness centers and gyms are great for watching, but I’ve never really felt that gaming these venues is a good. If girls are there to seriously workout, then approaches, even day game type interactions, may be prerejected because you’ll be seen as a gym rat just there to pickup girls. If the girls are there because they too are gym rats looking for muscle meat, then you better be top AMOG there. And since I’m not, I don’t know how great them pickins are.

Now, if you’re within an hour of a beach — well, that’s my solution. You get to really see a girls body, and it’s a much more social scene depending on where/when you go. Not only that, you find hotties on vacation all the time, and a venue bounce to a beach bar, hotel pool bar, and then your hotel room is a great sequence.

JQ
Guest
JQ
Offline

Yes, I have noticed the same about direct vs indirect game. Having read Day Bang by Roosh and Day Game Mastery by Krauser, beginners should start with indirect game. Heartiste also comments that natural introverts should go for indirect. My current expertise level makes me go for indirect but I am working to be able some day to go direct successfully. Once I saw a friend of mine execute a direct street stop and it was one of the most impressive things I have witnessed. The face expression of the woman being knocked off her feet like in a movie. They ended up in a relationship later after. I will never forget what she said one night we were dinning together in their apartment: “The world belongs to those who dare”

Libertas
Guest
Libertas
Offline

Direct street game like that can be real memorable if you can pull it off. I stopped one on the street a month ago and went on an instant date. The next day she texts me “thank you for stealing me off the street.”

Street game is still something I’m working on, because I typically don’t think it’s the best place to stop a woman (unless it’s a very public spot where people generally go to hang out rather than to just walk by), but it can work.

Ian
Guest
Ian
Offline

Wow-What City are you in where they actually appreciate direct game?

Libertas
Guest
Libertas
Offline

NYC.

But it’s probably more about you and your status vis a vis the girl you approach than the city you’re in. I’ve done this with girls from many different countries (since well, they come here from all over).

The common thread is that I look good and dress well and have some reasonably decent status for someone of my age (mid 20’s). I also deliberately look for girls that are more likely to be receptive (18-24 year old girls and girls showing some signs they would be open to being approached).

As the saying goes, women are women, ultimately.

TJ
Guest
TJ
Offline

As high quality an individual you may be there are some places where the stagnation is unreal- the Southern US. You will here girls twang out “Ah downt know yew” fairly often. You need third cousin game j/k.

Captain Nemo
Guest
Captain Nemo
Offline

The 3rd cousin bit almost killed me xD

Kish
Guest
Kish
Offline

I prefer Tom Toreros style the best. It’s a combination of direct and indirect. He states his intent without being inappropriate or socially retarded.

Libertas
Guest
Libertas
Offline

Agreed. I like his (and the daygame.com guys) blueprint. It’s simple so there’s certainty and you come across as confident and congruent.

Christopher Bear
Guest

rooshv, i love it and all but why post 4 things you dislike when you could post 4 ways to overcome those things you dislike???

Giovonny
Guest
Giovonny
Offline

I know longer subscribe to “direct” or “indirect”. It’s always a combination of BOTH. Even when we go “direct” we should display certain indirect traits with our body language, vibe, tone, etc. Conversely, when we go indirect, we should display certain direct type characteristics in our body, face, and tone.

I often like to go “fake-indirect” — which is where my conversational subject matter is entirely indirect but my body language, tone, and positioning are very direct.

I really like the whole “indirect-direct” type of stuff. We can open indirectly but than quickly shift to direct.

We can sort of compliment them but also “neg” them at the same time.

“your style is different, but, you seem more feminine than most girls I see around here”

“thats a funny outfit, you can pull it off because you have a lot of swag”

Whenever a girl passes me on the street, I turn, speed up, walk alongside of her, and open indirectly but often with a strong sexual tone and cadence.

I really like these “hybrid” forms.

GRock
Guest
GRock
Offline

I like your idea of indirect with direct body language. I think that squashes discomfort and establishes rapport quicker. I try to employ this and it often occurs unconsciously now.

Another unconscious mistake I tend to make, that turns out to be a strong positive, is usually within the 2-5 minute mark I make a comment that can be taken strongly sexual, or just casual depending on vocal inflection.

It’s as if I start a 2nd conversation within the initial conversation that’s essentially hidden in sexual code. I can choose to be more obvious or less obvious (which translates into direct or less direct) depending on the scene.

Learning to speak metaphorically to women, yet not too deep that it’s completely over their head, has served me well for a long time now. The older I get and the younger the girl, the more it has to be dumbed down of course.

Giovonny
Guest
Giovonny
Offline

GRock,

i love what you said about ” sexual code” and speaking metaphorically to women. They speak this subtle language of seduction.!

S
Guest
S
Offline

Roosh V
What are the top 5 countries in Europe have you seen direct game be the most effective in?

JJ
Guest
JJ
Offline

Guys let me guess here but ranking aces from where direct game is least appreciated (aka more likely to get you in trouble) to most by geographic zone is it-
1-Middle East
2-United States
3-The Balkans
4-Western Europe
5-Latin America
6-South East Asia
7-Scandinavia
8-Eastern Europe

Where would the Baltics fall on this list-
do they have white knights on every block like Murica’?

Jurassic Carl
Guest
Jurassic Carl
Offline

My favorite line to use in a bookstore is used whenever I make eye contact with an attractive girl/woman while we’re both looking at books on one of those display tables.

“Anything worth taking home?”

Sautious
Guest
Sautious
Offline

You are over-thinking it. There are so many advantages of day game. First of all, you can actually see them. Secondly, you can ask about the best restaurant, followed by taking them there later. Thirdly, you can quickly find out of there is an instant attraction to you. Many of these girls haven’t had an american come up and talk to them, so take advantage of this. Lastly, you get to find the bookwormy types that aren’t keen on going out and drinking their face off.

'Reality' Doug
Guest
'Reality' Doug
Offline

There is no such thing as direct and indirect game, only direct or indirect openers. Calibration requires push-pull from direct interest to present disinterest. If you calibrate in the course of an interaction, you are applying and learn both direct and indirect presence, but any game effort that closes is both direct and indirect game, which makes the categorical distinction a theoretical apparition.

TyKo Steamboat
Guest
TyKo Steamboat
Offline

A smooth, well-rounded single man should have developed a series of Day, Night, Situational & Internet game by the age of 25. These are the 4 corner-stones to healthy gaming. I enjoy all except for night as I rarely go out in my town at night anymore. I love day gaming in Eastern Europe.

Ian
Guest
Ian
Offline

What kind of reactions do you typically get? Are the girls mainly feminine and submissive?
Is it true that polite yet direct caveman is the way to go (start out polite but tell them you like them, grab their hand, and kiss them- don’t wait and be afraid of political correctness like an American would be).

TyKo Steamboat
Guest
TyKo Steamboat
Offline

Hey, friend. Many factors come in to play here (your look, what country you are in, ect.). For some reason, Eastern women react to my look & style more than American women do. I noticed this 7 years ago.

Polish, Ukrainian & Russian girls like masculine & confident men. Smile alot, look them in the eyes & speak very “matter of factly”. But the key ingredient is a confident smile & approach. Speak you mind, yes. Some of the most brutal words I’ve ever heard in my life have come out of the mouth of hot Ukrainian girls. & I personally find it very refreshing.

TyKo Steamboat
Guest
TyKo Steamboat
Offline

One nice move I like is to “speak with your hands”

After a few minutes of conversation, tell her a story where you have to touch her shoulder with your hand as a show of what you did in this story. I always use this one story where i’m describing my first ever experience riding on the subway & explain how I had to grab on to the shoulder of the person next to me to avoid falling down then I smile & laugh. Then slowly & gently reach-out & touch her shoulder as you tell this story & read how she reacts to you….It’s a non-threatening move & will reveal a lot to you.

Ian
Guest
Ian
Offline

50 or so tips that good and your have a good system to replicate anywhere.

Here’s one from me-
One of my favorite cold approach openers that’s never failed is to walk up and say”I just want to say thank you” Her “Why” You-“Your beautiful smile made my day”. The irony is I usually
Mean it when I say it. Congruity is everything. It’s always worked for me.

Lets hear another one- I can tell you’re the real deal man. What’s a good mid game ramble topic and the smartest fastest way to get physical and beat it up.

TyKo Steamboat
Guest
TyKo Steamboat
Offline

I’ll give you one more here. I only like to approach when a girl is isolated as almost all of my success has come in this fashion. If she is in a group, approaching them as a whole will get you surely cock-blocked & shot down.
In a bar/restaurant setting, where people are usually seated, if a girl has given you eye contact for longer than a second, but she is with one or more friends, simply take a bar napkin & a pen…draw 3 boxes & write this:
“I like you…Do you like me???”
0 – Yes
0 – No
0 – Maybe
I’m telling you, it’s a fun move, will make her laugh & about 90% of the time she will check the ‘Maybe’ box which really means ‘Yes’. I’ve done this several times to much success.
Then you can go approach her virtually tension free.

Jershawn Rontell/Pipe Game
Guest
Jershawn Rontell/Pipe Game
Offline

Mane looks how deez chicks run they game on a thirsty clown-nom sayin!?

If you a bitch she ain’t gonna do right mane-you caint fake being real son now live that verb with contraception and repetition.

This here is as real as you can speaks-
See if you be real then you knows how is a ho always be tryin a hustle a G-you feel me.

N dis do the truth sets you free my rider-
Da secret be to lay that pipe down like a boss and that bird be buying you dinner and picking yo azz up and evrybodah in the hood gonna know you got that solid pipe game down like the economy to make a bird fly how you like and that’s reAl cause most clowns don’t but some Gs lay the pipe down like a mc lay down fly rhymes up in dis bitch. Dig the ho out like a crane and she gonna be down fo whateva but if you caint she gonna hustle yo wack ass out into a cardboard box if you let her trick ass take any yo paper when she stringing yo longs for some rachtey clam pie pie. She string the pie pie tell a bitch bye bye they 20 otha bitchs as fly as her or beta in the same damns zip code partnuh- it ain’t a thing unless you make it.

Anotha is n my boy Leron will tellz everybodah is I gots BBQ up at my house and some ds on my jolly rancher candy whip with them bucket seats and two Sig 9s choppas.
Dis right heuh how it gon go-
Grind stay steady shine like a candy right do it fine baby Luke. Look ah here mane J biz he Ready for the game son- that’s all it be up get from round here. Yeah yay!

The US of A has Anal Prolapse
Guest
The US of A has Anal Prolapse
Offline

Is that Neil Skywalker in your vid?

johnathan blaze
Guest
johnathan blaze
Offline

How long before Roosh defects to PUAHate?

Timmeehh
Guest
Timmeehh
Offline
Mr Motorboat
Guest
Mr Motorboat
Offline

I think indirect game is useful at first as training wheels to keep your ego from getting gravel burn. Later as conversational confidence increases ease in a few direct approaches. Indirect: direct ratio can then be adjusted up or down according to circumstance and the level of inner game you have achieved.

Lithiumflower
Guest
Lithiumflower
Offline

I wish we had signs that said, “I’m busy”, or “I’m not busy, I’m just goofing off”.

Please remember many of the women who blew you off were truly busy, and could not talk. Maybe… 50% of them.

Prepz… if I were you, I would not hit up Starbucks nor Panera bread. Most women who frequent Starbucks are gold diggers or spoiled. Many of the young ladies frequenting Panera are completely daft or… see what I said above, busy but would’ve otherwise talked to you.

Don’t go up to a women while they are eating alone, chances are they don’t want your first impression of them to be them munching down. It’s just… not flattering, for us. I mean… you don’t generally have lunch at business meetings.

vinder
Guest
vinder
Offline

I just can’t see the benefit in day game. Night game has has so many more factors in place to aid your success. In clubs there’s a high concentration of women in one place, many of whom are single and open to meeting new guys. The music and lighting creates an atmosphere conducive to game. Alcohol lowers inhibition on both sides thus reducing approach anxiety and making women more receptive and horny. The dance floors promote physical escalation.The women typically have no other plans after the club apart from going to sleep so the logistics are perfectly in place for a same night lay.

Direct day game is pedestalization. Indirect day game seems equally cringe-worthy because at some point you’re going to have to make your intentions known and switch from just being a chatty stranger to a man seeking sex. Women almost always have plans throughout the day which messes up logistics. It’s also far more mentally demanding and draining for me to approach a random woman in the daytime and keep a conversation going when I’m not in state and neither are they. Each approach feels like a major feat regardless of outcome whereas in the club I can open a new set every minute and not care if I get rejected.