A Streetcar Named Desire

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I finally saw A Streetcar Named Desire after getting tired of not understanding its references in film and television. The movie is about Blanche DuBois, a woman with serious issues who stays with her sister Stella and brother-in-law Stanley, a violent alpha male who is so hot that you can’t help but forgive the first time he slaps his wife around. (From the movie one must conclude that she liked it.)

In one scene Blanche discusses her beta boyfriend Mitch along with truths that are as relevant today as they were 60 years ago.

I guess I’m a little nervous about our relations. He hasn’t gotten anything more than a good-night kiss. That’s all I’ve given him because I want his respect. And men don’t want anything they get too easy. On the other hand, men lose interest quickly, especially when a girl is over 30. When I mentioned marriage, they even forgot where I lived.

Poor Mitch didn’t know at the time that Blanche was the go-to whore back in her home town. She was deceiving Mitch about her previous past, lying that she is chaste and inexperienced when in fact she had many “meetings with strangers.”

I meet Blanche DuBois every time I go out. They are past their peak, desperate, and damaged, but they still want to get the attention that dating offers while waiting for a millionaire Shep Huntleigh to sweep them off their feet. They believe 40 is the new 20. Hopefully unlike Blanche they don’t get raped and end up in a mental institution, but the common fate of winding up a cougar with too much disposable income does not seem like a happy alternative. The only difference between now and then is that back then at least the girls hid the fact they were playing the field. Serial dating has become such a badge of honor now that girls will discuss their experiences with anyone who’ll listen over a martini at happy hour, even their date.

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Jay Gatsby
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Interesting observations. I went to a party on Saturday night that was a 2-1 ratio of women to men. The women were ALL over 30, with many over 35. The men were all in their mid-30s to early-40s and successful (rich). Although not as bad as walking into the “Yacht Club” (you Marylanders know what I mean), it was nonetheless an eye-opening experience. First, the women looked their ages. Too much tanning, hair coloring, bags under their eyes, sagging breasts, etc… This didn’t stop them from flaunting the “goods” (some had implants, but I consider that somewhat cheating). Second, because there were more women than men, the women were extremely catty with each other and you could almost see the competition for the few decent-looking men at the party (most were unattractive dweebs that still had money). Third, of the FEW hookups that I saw, none of the women were actually going home with the guys. Rather, they were exchanging business cards and phone numbers. This struck me as slightly odd, since the women were clearly the type that gave it up very quickly when they were younger, and now are all of a sudden born-again virgins. Perhaps this will technique will work on beta males, but any alpha wouldn’t waste his time.

virglekent
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Jay Gats,

Ha ha ha ha, why is it that when my boys and I go to these SAME exact parties we being (26-29) usually end up hooking up and slipping away with one of these females. It’s like they don’t play that hard to get game, they want some dick and come straight for it. This is so confusing that they’d give out numbers and trade cards with rich dudes their own age, but with young energetic good looking guys it’s open says me.

Women are funny

Roosh,

I don’t know when women started thinking it was hot to tell their dates about their sexual pasts on the easy breezy tip. Bragging about how many guys have been upinya is not hot.
Duh

Nullpointer
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I think people need to stop confusing alpha male with asshole.

Stop using half-assed evolutionary psychology arguments to justify your behavior. We are not big horn sheep where mating promiscously is somehow a good strategy.

Assholes (“alpha-males”) are a creation of society. Having more the one mate was a fairly bad reproductive strategy until civilization took off and we no longer lived a hunter-gather tribes/groups.

Yes, assholes do get laid more and are more presently. No disagreement there. That just shows cultural and societal drifts, combined with selective pressure favoring asshole rulers that had 10+ children all from different women. An extreme example is Genghis Khan who significantly influence the Asiatic gene pool.

Think for a second about how difficult it would have been for one guy to provide for 5 wives and 10+ children. Do you know how much food they would eat? You can’t just go around impregnating a bunch of women and expecting that your children will somehow survive to reproduce. That only works now, when social services keeps the bastards [in a literal sense] alive. So the most effective technique, which is used by most animals where you have to care for the young for a long amount of time before they mature is [serial] monogamy. The more of a woman’s time you spend, the less time she has to be unfaithful, which ensures that she has your kids.

Unlike baboons you cannot tell when a human female is ovulating (unless you’re a menstrual cycle expert). Thus you probably need to sleep with her multiple times over a period of time to guarantee conception. If we acted like big horn sheep and everyone mated with everyone it would just be gigantic mess, since no guy is going to take care of someone else’s kid.

Humans haven’t exactly shown a propensity toward communism and communal living.

So yeah cat ladies exist and it’s probably a result of the values our societies hold. Same thing with assholes getting laid alot.

Don’t try to justify it with evolution or some other bullshit (wouldn’t that be Beta?). People enjoy sex and now that society has enabled random promiscuity with few consequences people are being promiscous. I don’t find that such a large surprise. It’s happened before in civilizations and it will happen again (think Caligula, Pompeii).

mike says
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aaaaaand there went the fun in this thread.

boc
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boc
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Nullpointer – I ugess people don’t need to read sperm wars anymore, since you more or less quoted all of Baker’s points.

Jewcano
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I got tired of reading nullpointer after the 12th paragraph, but that was far enough in to read where he claims Communism would save us from crazy cat ladies.

Nullpointer
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I haven’t read that book, I got most of my points from APA articles.

Jewcano, I’m a libertarian. I guess I must have talked about communism in paragraphs ten through twelve.

Jay Gatsby
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“This is so confusing that they’d give out numbers and trade cards with rich dudes their own age, but with young energetic good looking guys it’s open says me.” — VK

Here’s my theory. Apologies in advance for the inelegant way I’ve written this.

Post-30 women gave it up for free during their 20s to bad boys that had no money. Now they’re looking for financial security as their looks fade. The post-30 men they’re pursuing today aren’t the bad boy type they dated in their 20s, so they think that such men would still find them desirable. They also think that playing hard to get will increase such desire, and will thereby get a permanent commitment from such men. Here’s the flaw in this rationale. The highly-desirable 30-plus year old guy has navigated his way through his 20s, which were filled with all sorts of women. He chose not to get married or chose to play the field. What makes post-30 women think that men who avoided marrying them in their 20s are all of a sudden going to wake up and marry them now that their looks are fading? This leaves post-30 women with the less-desirable post-30 men, who although they have money, probably have far less than would be needed to allow them a very comfortable and financially-secure future.

Plus-30 women choose to sleep with 20-something guys because they want to believe they’re still desirable by attractive men — that they can still compete (and win) against women who are 10+ years younger. Likewise, they don’t want sex from plus-30 men — they want the financial security those men can provide. This is illustrated by the cliche situation where the 30-plus trophy wife of a wealthy man her age (or older) sleeps with the tennis pro or the pool boy.

Rajia
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Maybe I’m not quite as advanced as all these coniving 30+ women you seem to meet, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume that every woman has some type of agenda. Sometimes we just see guys we like, regardless of their age, income, color, etc. I’m 30 and honestly, I never look at a guy and think “oh, he must have money” or “oh, he can probably buy me a good life”.

Jeez, how paranoid are you guys? It must suck to live that way.

Nullpointer
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It seems like most women (and probably alot of men) don’t think beyond one or two levels of inference.

I mean women don’t really plan out becoming cat ladies. Why do they just accept fallacious feminist arguments without any analysis?

Are most people just that intellectually lazy or are they all just stuck on the second level of Mazlow’s hiearchy?

Nullpointer
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To Rajia –
This may sound cynical, but when dealing with most people (especially women) the best indicators of what they actually think are their actions and behaviors.

Most people aren’t self-aware enough to really give a motivation for their actions at any level deeper than “I see a guy I like”. Unless you’re functioning at a level no higher than a baboon, there is a reason you like him.

Maybe it’s his overpowering sexuality or maybe it’s his submissive features, but there is a reason. Since most people can’t be trusted to give an honest reflection of themselves you can only judge by their actions.

One of the reasons I read Roosh’s blog even though I don’t agree with everything he says is that has a candidness about himself in his experiences that’s rare to find nowadays.

Genevieve
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didn’t marlon brando molest his daughter?

cbradi9
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I live in Manhattan, and I feel this phenomenon is more palpable here than in most places across the country. First of all, there are 185,000 more single women than there are single men in the greater NYC metro area. Second of all, most people (men and women) come here to develop their careers. Hence, most women (and men) don’t reach their desired goal until they hit at least 30. (AT LEAST). For men, that’s ok. For women, their clocks are already beginning to tick. Since women in the city are generally accomplished, smart, and decent-looking, they therefore have extremely high standards of men. But realize, there’s a dearth of men in the city, a lot of the men are gay, and the ones who are not gay are players who want models or younger women. Hence, you have a huge surplus of single, 30-something yr old women in Manhattan.

Personal story: I was on a train coming back to the city one day with my other female friend and her two male coworkers. (And these guys are single, decent-looking, in the corporate world, and in their 30s). Suddenly, these two drunk women (with wine in a brown paper bag) sit right next to us. They had no rings and were both obviously older women. (they were both 39 and looked it with the overtanning and wrinkles). However, that didn’t stop them from overtly flirting with my guy friends. (overtly as in touching the guys’ legs and thighs). My friend and I (both in our mid 20s) just sat their watching in amusement. I thought it was odd that it never crossed their mind that we MIGHT have been with them. (although we were all just friends). The air was completely filled with desperation. Even though they were both 39, they acted as if they were 20 yr olds. (Note: Acting like an immature, young 20 yr old doesnt make you any younger. It just makes you look foolish).

Nullpointer
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It’s not just NY, it’s the entire east coast.

http://creativeclass.typepad.com/./photos/uncategorized/2007/04/03/singles_2.jpg May, but then you have the most amazing summers of anywhere in the US.

As far as I can tell the rumors that the most attractive people are further out west seem to be true. The most attractive females I’ve seen are in Las Vegas, Seattle, and California. In fact, the few attractive people that went to my college they all ended up on the west coast.

Nullpointer
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Woops, screwed the HTML and half of my post disappeared 🙁

I had also said that the girls on the west coast are nicer and seem alot more balanced. They might not as easy to get in bed, but they’re far more approachable and generally smart/fairly attractive. The west coast for the most part is like an completely different world (Mid Calfornia and North). It’s mostly new and highly educated money as opposed to 3rd or 4th generation oil and political families that exist on the east coast.

Roissy
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gatsby is basically right. i’d add that 30+ single women will never commit to the younger guys they bang, they’d rather maritally lock down a financially established man older than them. they know in their hearts there is no future with the younger guys so they have less incentive to play hard-to-get. if a woman sees a man as a long term prospect instead of just hot sex her dating programming kicks in (business cards, dinner dates, delayed sexual gratification, etc) to insure that the guy pursuing them is serious and won’t walk out after the first steamy night.

and, like gatsby said, the real tragedy is that past her expiration date this hard-to-get strategy which served her well in her 20s becomes the self-ruinous force of biological habit that does nothing but drive away all marriageable men except the most desperate betas, leaving her in a psychologically scarred state about her self-worth and eventual vulnerability to collecting cats as a way to alleviate the unremitting pain.

cbradi9:
“First of all, there are 185,000 more single women than there are single men in the greater NYC metro area.”

keep in mind that male-female hookups are not one to one. many of those surplus women are the second or third mistresses of the smaller pool of successful alpha male manhattanites, biding their time at the expense of lonely betas who can’t get a date to save their lives in hopes of getting promoted by alpha male to number one squeeze.

DF
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cbradi9, those stats include women well into their 60’s so they overstate the ratio somewhat but looking around the city at any given time you do feel the ratio is considerably in a man’s favor.

As a fellow manhattanite I second your observation that many women here have extremely high standards, so high in fact that they make things very difficult for themselves. NY women are probably the least approachable in the US, exacerbating their situation and indirectly feeding the player sub-culture. There are a lot of single girls that are 6 or 7’s with the approachability and demands of a 9 or 10. I also find that there are not as many hot women (8+) in NY as other cities like Miami or out west.

Rajia
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Obviously there’s a reason a woman “likes” a man, but I think it’s pretty sad to assume that we all have some type of agenda to score a rich husband that will pay all of our bills for us, so that we can be ladies that lunch. Or that we have some kind of engagement ring radar tuned up to high.

I guess I have extremely low standards because I’ve consistently dated blue-collar men who drink cheap beer and make me laugh. Maybe it’s my midwestern upbringing. I’m in a serious, 2-year relationship with a man who will never make more money than I make, but he can make me giggle like no one’s business.

Days of Broken Arrows
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I hate to ruin everybody’s fun here, but if you think you’re getting some insight into actual female behavior with “A Streetcar nemd Desire,” think again. The play was penned by gay playwright Tennessee Williams and theatrical scholars have long believed that Williams wrote the Blanche character — at least partly — as a self-portrait.

This little factoid even made it into the Wikipedia entry on Williams: “Some biographers say that the character of Blanche DuBois in A Streetcar Named Desire is based on her as well and a small part on Williams himself.”

“Streetcar” makes a lot more snese when you read it as a portrait of troubled gay men, not as a male-female couple. In a somewhat similar vein, all the S&M themes of those old Judas Priest songs took on a different meaning once singer Rob Halford came out of the closet.

Nullpointer
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Speaking of gay men, the new Adam Sandler comedy looks promising.

Jamie
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Jamie
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fucking good post

Firepower
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I wrote a Senior Thesis for my college English degree on Streetcar. Had to actually read it and many other of Tennessee’s plays like Glass Menagerie and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. Brick’s pal, Skipper was a waygay guy. Notice, how most of the gheys in his plays are punished. Blanche’s teen tla husband for instance.

Brando’s physical performance, born on the stage itself, is what strikes most of us as that Alpha Ideal. Without Marlon’s visual appeal, Kowalski is a page-bound Neanderthal. If you’re hot, you can get away with anything.

“aw, those cats – raaaoowr”

lurker
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best part of the glass menagerie is when I was told that unicorns, in legend, could only be caught by virgin girls who would lay in the forest with their legs spread. The unicorn would insert his horn, and it would break off inside her, and the unicorn could then be captured.

That gives the breaking of the glass unicorn scene a lot more depth.