Aggressive Game vs. Aloof Game

I run aggressive game. I’m a salesman who wants to close the deal before the prospect walks out the door, before her desire to buy gets cold. This is why the game I teach is based on touching, fast kissing, one-night stands, and no-nonsense text game. I make a straight line from approach to sex.

This game works best on women who need to use their sexuality to keep men on the line, meaning 7’s and below. These girls tend to lose the interest of an alpha male if she doesn’t put out, so she’s not adverse to fast hook ups in order to grab his attention. Aggressive game also works on horny girls who want to fuck the next reasonable guy who hits on her. When you’re in a popular club, what you see is mostly aggressive game. Guys are touching and dancing aggressively.

You begin to see limitations of aggressive game when you move up in quality (especially in Europe where the speed to sex is slower than in America). Would aggressive game work on a 9? Would it work on an 8 with a boyfriend? Most likely not. These beautiful women don’t need to hook a man with their sexuality—their raw beauty is enough. They’re also much more aware of their value and understand that their power lies more in delaying sex instead of speeding it along, a completely different reality than for the 6 who needs to give a free sample of the goods to create interest.

The 8’s I’ve been with were due to the following four conditions being met: (1) her being single, (2) me being her rough physical type, (3) not making game mistakes, and (4) her not having gotten laid in a while. If these conditions are not met, aggressive game is ineffective, and the fact that most beautiful girls are in some sort of relationship shows how such attempts will usually be met with a swift rejection. The failure rate with aggressive game increases logarithmically as you approach the 9 rating level.

In addition, aggressive game has one serious flaw: you do almost all of the work. That reason it’s common for one-night stands to flake out before a first date is because walking away has no cost for her—she invested little work in you (spreading legs doesn’t count as investment to an American girl). She didn’t put much energy into the interaction because you were doing all the work—work that got her into bed in the first place by taking advantage of her horny and single state. Even in my book Bang, for example, I urge you to fill in silences instead of letting her do it. This presupposes that your value is lower than hers and that you must work hard to show you are worthy of sex. But what happens when your value actually does become high? In that case, rushing to fill in silences or initiate all text message contact would be the same as Brad Pitt chasing a random cougar. This is the time when you can ease into aloof game.

The man who runs aloof game has less bangs than the man who runs aggressive game, but his quality is higher. You’re no longer a door-to-door salesman—you’re simply sitting at the desk filling backorders of a product that is in high demand. Prospects often come to you. I have much work to do in ironing out the specifics of aloof game, but it boils down to one thing—making her invest more time and energy into you than you do to her. Make her fill in silences more than you. Make her compliment, show affection, and touch more than you. Make her text more and send longer messages than you. Make her ask you out as much as you do.

Will this work if your value as a man is low? No. If any man has had to learn game, it’s because his value was low. Therefore he must start with an aggressive style of game. As his value rises, it will inevitably surpass that of the average woman he lays. He should then transition to aloof game.

There are two signals which suggest it’s time for you to practice aloof game. The first is when you begin to have a negative reaction to watching guys run game on girls that is similar to what you’ve done (close dancing, fast kisses, etc.). When the mirror is held up to your game, and it appears too try-hard or out of tune, that means you’re running a game that no longer fits your temperament. Secondly, when there are girls you eagerly banged in the past who you would no longer touch, that means your quality has gone way up, and if your quality has gone way up, so has your value.

Recently girls have been touching me first, with similar moves I would have to do on them in the past. They are asking for my number and suggesting dates. They are apologizing for minor social slights or bad jokes. They are giving me bigger compliments. They are treating me like beta males treat women. It turns out that both sexes treat those whom they value in the same supplicative way. If this is happening to you, it’s time to put aside aggressive game for something more aloof, and then watch with nostalgia as guys in the club run the game that you no longer have to do.

Read Next: How To Bang A 9

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The One Reason
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Senor Roosh, you have really grown on this side of the pond. Excellent points, I await more of your new thoughts on Game. This sh*t resonates with me very much. *bows*

earl
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“There are two signals which suggest it’s time for you to practice aloof game.”

1) When you know internally your strengths and weaknesses.

2) When guys insult you about those qualities or give you praise…it doesn’t change #1.

What do women have to do with aloof game?

Lone Wolf
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Well constructed Roosh. In reflection I think you just answered a question I had about where I f-ed up with an 8+ a little while back. I had her teetering on valuing me more than I realized while I was still running aggressive game tactics which had me running for the door too early and not playing along in an aloof manner. Thanks for the pointers.

Kieran
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For younger guys that missed out on the old school, Juggler’s method was all about getting the girl to invest in the conversation. Definitely something people would likely benefit from revisiting.

This post really resonated with me, especially the bit about seeing other guys run similar game and finding it try hard. I clearly remember reaching this point and women responding as you describe. It was strange because nothing changed in my looks or circumstances, and yet suddenly I became the chooser. I guess it must have come down to how I perceived myself.

Realist
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P.S Apologies for any spelling mistakes above.

serious question
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roosh why is your value higher now?

do you think it has something to do with your SMP value due to your age? is age 32 (or whatever age you are) the magical threshold?

because i mean you were well read and life experienced before, also i find it hard to believe that your value suddenly drastically increases after bang # 253 or something

Giovonny
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The bottom line is that we must increase our value. And/or, perceived value.

Fascinating stuff.

bodmon
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bodmon
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i don’t understand this post.

first, the conditions you list to get an 8: she’s available, you’re attractive enough, and you’re normal… how would these matter any differently whether you go at her hard or you go at her using what you term as aloof game?

second, what is aloof game, for the guy’s part? you don’t define that. you talk about increased value and working less. alright… but what is the course of actions that is now incumbent on the guy to play out? lower-energy indirect approaches? standing around and waiting for IOIs? building a social circle and foregoing cold approach?

third, you say to switch to aloof game once your value increases. how do you increase your value? you didn’t explain how your own value changed so that you were now pursued more by girls. you just listed external indicators of that state, not how you brought it about.

but okay, say you try to increase your value by getting richer, dressing sharper, honing your body, building a rep, becoming a social hub.

that said, however, in the cold approach setting, besides appearance, the most important components of which (face & height) you cannot change, what value does a guy have but his honed ability to run aggressive game? your dichotomy is then a contradiction.

it seems to me that you are taking a fact of life, that high-value guys work less than low-value guys and have an attitude to match, and for some reason branding as some kind of technique (“aloof game”) to effect on others.

Giovonny
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It’s great when girls start supplicating us.

BarkChompson
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Concise, poignant, and accessible. A return to form! Posts of this caliber are why I started following you and why I recommend you to any frustrated Alphas and Betas that will listen. Can’t wait to hear what you have to say next.

ManosphereRadio
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The image of aloofness is sent by various congruency signals.

How you dress, you hold your posture, how you speak, how you interact with people, how you interact with her.

All of these variable paint the overall picture of which the girl tries to interpret. However, different girls respond differently to a certain level of aloofness. Some girls like a guy who is a bit more engaging, romantic and playful while others like a man who is stoic, disciplined and calculated.

The key is to find what kind of girls you’re interested in the most and what resonates with them the best.

Realist
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Let me tell you a story. When I was younger I had natural game. This was borne of the self confidence that comes from having wealthy parents and having attended one of my city’s most elite private schools where a born to rule mentality was imbued in us from a young age. For my first few years at college, I couldn’t put a foot wrong. I look back on those years and I must say, it wasn’t a pretty picture (or at least I wasn’t). I was a cocky, arrogant, prick and yes , you guessed it- there was no shortage of gorgeous girls in my life. To this very day I can say that I dated and bedded some of the most beautiful women I have ever laid my eyes on. True. How many guys can actually say that?
Now a couple of close friends of mine at the time were basically nice guys- betas. But what I didn’t realize at the time, they had an eye on the big picture. Years later,with the benefit of hindsight, I now see that even back then, they were watching, waiting… calculating. Now, understand, we are talking about a couple of guys who couldn’t get laid in a brothel.

Fast forward a number of years. Family money gone. (The wherefores and whys don’t matter). But fate being a capricious bitch, she has bestowed great fortune on some, while taking it away from others. Yes, again you guessed correctly- the sun truly shone in my friends’ garden, and the money rolled in for them. And then some.

I fought the good fight. I worked hard and carved my own little niche in this world without anybody’s help. Quite the opposite in fact, the reversals of my family’s fortunes weighed me down, but I fought back against the vicissitudes of fate as best I could. I have to say, I’m actually a much better human being for it. I truly look sat myself in the mirror and like the person staring back at me. But, here’s the rub, wisdom and experience don’t count for much in this world. “Cocky game”, “aloof game” and “aggressive game” are just a chimera – something that we intuitively understand will help get us laid. Like a male peacock’s feathers- they are indicia of fitness that you can fake. BUT, you can only fake these for a little while. Sooner or later you will get to an age where “fitness” is displayed in no uncertain terms in a way that can’t be faked. What may have been good game when your 25 just wont work when you are on the wrong side of 35. As for my friends- fageddaboutit, as they say in Brooklyn. They are pulling more young hotties than they know what to do with- girls that most guys would wife in a second.. why?- because at the end of the day, money talks, and we all know what bullshit does. Five million dollars or more buys a lot natural swagger. The kind that can’t be faked.

Roosh, I think you had a sense of this a few posts ago when you were writing about your recent experiences in Poland with that French guy.. That post had a certain ennui borne out of a similar realization.

So yes, work on game, but understand its limits. The red pill is truly a bitter one to swallow and you may not like the truth that it reveals..

Virile Kent
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Still waiting for the New Roosh. Along the lines of Compliments and Cuddle.

Claret
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I’m gay, so I like both Roosh’s post and Realist’s comment. But which is righter?

Phero
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Good points realist. Some things can’t be faked.
Wealth does make a big difference when your over 35.
But it’s also the slow building confidence and experience as well.
They got to a point where they realized that back in the day the girls where fucking older men and “cocky pricks”.
So now they can “buy” you out of the game.
They can have a wife and a few pieces on the side.

Of course there’s plenty of sluts to go round, and all the “money don’t mean nothing” crowd will all be up in arms, but a lot of these guys have a with
wives who would never cheat knowing or at least suspecting they have a few side plates.

Money means nothing for the people that don’t have it. Most “bad boys” end up without it. It’s just that live for today attitude of expendiaility that women are attracted to.
And the reason they are not attracted to the often more conservative betas.
Until they get out of their shell or read “The professional bachelor”

Cad and Bounder
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Aggressive game is really just an approach applicable to nightgame (bars and clubs). It has high resonance here because this is a US centric site and bars where most guys (without a large social network) in the States will do their lead sourcing from. The singles bar culture is infintely bigger in the US. Also I think the leads in bars are pre-filtered because only a certain type of girl goes to a noisy bar or club. If you are alone in a foreign city than it is an essential part of your arsenal so I fully get where Roosh is coming from here.

However, outside of these contexts, aggressive game isn’t really going to work. The European style daygame concept is heavily reliant on flipping (either a direct or indirect approach) into aloofness by using DHV and neg’s etc. You start by doing the work and then shifting the load onto her so she is investing. You will find that tough to do in a noisy nightclub plus its a lot harder to ‘neg’ a girl who is out in bars/clubs all the time and has a high sense of her self esteem.

Which approach you have is guided by the situational context and being able to do both is optimal. It’s also somewhat guided by your personality too. If you are the loud extrovert type than can dominate a scene then the former suits you more but if you are an introvert that knows how to cold read and push emotional triggers than the latter works best for you.

Joe Dick
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”Still waiting for the New Roosh. Along the lines of Compliments and Cuddle.”

I am not. The best insight doesn’t try to fit into a specific mold, but is open to anything.

kkk
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Mike1981
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Solid 8

Harry Bawls
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Good reminder that the quality of the talent you pull is a reflection of your own SMP value.

Nigel Big Game
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Smart men always look for a Return On Investment. Your time is the investment, invest it wisely.

Awesome Possum
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Once again, it’s good to see you back Roosh. I’m sensing that you aren’t changing as much as your post seemed to suggest, and in my opinion, that’s a good thing. Aloof vs Aggressive is just a style change, kind of like casual vs business attire. It doesn’t change the person wearing the clothes, only his outward appearance. It looks like you’ve changed wardrobes, so to speak (in terms of your writing content) but you’re still the same guy. I’m glad you haven’t changed too much, your writing style is one that cannot be mimicked.

Russ
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Roosh,

This my first comment on your site as I discovered it just a week ago. I’d just like to say, it’s amazing the insight that you have into women and relationships. I imagine that’s why you’re muy successful with the fairer sex.

Anyway, this posting reminded me of a relationship I had about a year ago. When I first went out with the woman, I found her to be very attractive. But, as time went on, I couldn’t tolerate her because of her entitlement mentality. She always had me on edge comparing me unfavorably to her father and demanding improvements on the magnificent treatment I was already giving her. At some point, I decided I despised her completely and dumped her. Man! Did that act drive her nuts or what! She started calling and then begging and kept it up until a few months ago. I think the easiest way to raise one’s value is if you totally devalue the other person.

Anyway, loved “Bang Poland” and can relate to what you mean about that part of the world.

Anonymous
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Being loaded doesn’t really matter as many a divorce raped formerly rich man will tell you.

Anonymous
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/8739533/Women-and-divorce-Goodbye-darling-youre-just-too-dull….html

after seeing this article we need to game even while marreid wtf

Anonymous
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earl
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earl
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“never turn a slut to a housewife”

Why not? Every man can turn a slut into a housewife…he just has to do it himself first.

Inside UoM
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Can definitely relate. Carousel riders get boring pretty quickly. Low value slores arent worth much more than a few nights of lusterless dispassion. Discarding them is a good lesson for them too so they realise what their true value is.

Alexander
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Apparently aloof game is natural to me. Most likely because I’m introverted but it definitely works on higher value girls. If tonight is anything to go by it especially works on 18 year olds.

Anonymous
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@earl
only if u made her into ur personal slut then yes.
id rather take a good girl housewife then train her to be naughty. shouldnt be to hard.

cris
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A great post. In fact the one post i agree with the most.

I was tuned into game at an early age (14-15), and by the time I had turned around 22 the aggressive game looked way too sloppy. I felt creepy doing it. In some cases if the girl was young (18-19), felt like I had too much power over her.

Played some aloof game last week at a bar. Leaned against the back of the porch, sipping on my drink. A hard 8 was giving me glances, i motioned her over. Within 2 minutes she was talking about how she liked being choked and scratched. Within 4 minutes she was having me grope her ass to feel how toned and great it felt.

I’m not always the best at “aloof game” – although now im at a point where I don’t consider my dealings with women “Game” anymore. My flaw now is that sometimes I come off as TOO aloof.

But you know the best part about “aloof game”? When you run it, the girls around you run AGGRESSIVE game on YOU!

Kenny P
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I’m all for aggressive game even though I’d prefer to calibrate my approach depended on variables.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJESViR96w

Dude
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There is no such thing as “aloof game” really; aloofness can’t be faked. You either care or you don’t and women are experts at seeing though your fakeness. There just comes a time when your game is tight enough that you legitimately don’t care to put in the effort like a dog night after night chasing after these girls, especially anything below an 8.

I recently started dating the unquestionably hottest chick I’ve ever talked to. This girl has modeled for all the major US magazines and even gets recognized somewhat frequently on the street. She’s dated athletes and musicians and just got out of a multi-year relationship with an MLB player. I suppose I should mention that I am tall, good looking and in good shape myself, but far from Channing Tatum, and I make less than $35,000 a year.

The specifics aren’t important, but know that if I appeared to be “trying” even 1% this chick would’ve lumped me in with every other guy she’s ever talked to and blown me out of the water without a second thought. I just did whatever I wanted to, I had fun, I did everything I could to demonstrate high value but without ever making it sexual (we met through a mutual friend one night, this was not a date). I did this because I legitimately didn’t care if I hooked up with her or not (at least partially because I didn’t think I had a chance anyway). I wanted to do whatever I wanted to, I wanted to have fun, so I did. Even when she gave me some indications she was into me or openings to make a move, I laughed her off, turned my back and went back to the dance floor (part I wanted to dance, part I didn’t feel like dealing with the inevitable shit-tests from someone I assumed to be the Alex Trebek of shit testing).

Didn’t ask for her number, didn’t facebook her, didn’t follow her on instagram, didn’t ask questions about her to our mutual friend, etc. (I did already know that we’d both be attending the same event the following weekend). By night two she was all over me.

I still have my doubts that this can last as she gets offers to fly private jets to guys vacation homes and the like, and on my less-than-modest salary I can barely afford to take her to the dive bar twice a week. But if she does leave, I’ll appreciate the time we had together, and I’ll move on. Maybe that’s why she hasn’t left yet…