Am I Losing The Ability To Bang Western Women?

In the past I’ve written about how spending time abroad helps my game when I return back to the States. Being put in new situations with foreign women apparently translated into a better ability to fuck American women. Now that I’ve been in Europe for so long, coming home must mean I’ll be able to fuck American girls on demand, right?

I recently spent three weeks in Hvar, a Croatian island that is often rated in the top ten of European summer destinations. I went with a plan to pick up some Eastern European flags, but unfortunately the island was stacked with British and other Anglo women. Because I still wanted to get laid, I made due and tried to bang anyway.

My results were poor: in my first ten nights I banged only two British girls. That’s a one out of five night success rate, which is actually worse than what I was getting in Washington DC before I left. Granted, one of the girls was a virgin, and I did run out of gas after the fifth consecutive night going out, but I worked hard to get paltry results from women who were vacationing and supposed to be easy. Here’s what happened:

1. My time in Europe is taking me away from the optimum game to bang Western women. Western game is very particular: put out a fun, cocky vibe and maintain nonsexual banter until going for the kill with a subtle weasel move in the end. This has not been my game for about two years now. I’ve been a “confident beta” who compliments, buys women drinks, and romances them by showing affection and making them feel like they’re being swept off their feet. Western women don’t reward that type of game.

2. Western women want to keep conversations superficial and comical. I don’t go to the club to have philosophical discussions, but after thirty minutes of conversation with an Eastern European girl, I want to ask her questions that give me an idea on who she really is. With a Western girl, you have to continue the witty banter to infinity—it never stops, even after sex. You need to entertain your way into her pants and if you hit her with a couple bad jokes then she will lose attraction for you. She only cares if you’re stimulating her in the present moment. Western women want stand-up comedians while Eastern European women want a good man.

3. Western women kill the moment and soften your boner. I was on my balcony with a Canadian girl from Toronto. When I got close for the kiss she said, “Okay so is this where we kiss? I think we can kiss. But we can only kiss and that’s all.” She wouldn’t stop talking about the kiss, like it was the biggest thing in the world. I almost felt like she wanted me to sign a contract specifying how the kiss would go down. Suddenly I felt like there were twenty cameras on me and what was supposed to be an intimate moment became farce.

The second example happened with an Australian girl while still at the club. I went for the kiss at about the hour mark and when I got to within two inches of her face she said, “Really? You’re trying to kiss me already?” I scratched my head a bit and then went in again a few minutes later, only for her to keep saying “Really?” I told her to stop acting like she’s doing the director commentary on a DVD. I got the kiss, but when I’d do any escalation move she’d say “Really?”

4. Western women are less forgiving of any errors you make. While it didn’t help that the island was stacked with dudes who were approaching like mad, Western women are ready to jump ship when you make the slightest mistake. Did you give a comment that may be construed as a needy compliment? She walks. Did you call her out for an incorrect statement she made? She walks. Did you show an ounce of raw male desire? She walks. If you don’t put on a perfect performance, and she thinks she has other options, she will absolutely not give you the benefit of the doubt.

5. They think they are hotter or better than they actually are. It’s been a while since I’ve seen so many overweight women acting like they are prizes on the sexual dating market. In Eastern European countries I’d get free love from 5s and below who would make it easy for me to get at least some action, but Western 5s don’t give you love—they cockblock you and make fun of you. Fat girls who are past their prime gave me shit for no reason when I wasn’t even hitting on them.

6. They have a herd mentality and act as if they’re still teenagers. If a girl likes you, but her four friends don’t, then you’re out of luck. To get one lay you have to make sure all her friends think you’re a great guy, and if just one of them doesn’t like your hair style then she will make it her life mission to cockblock you. In Eastern Europe, I could ignore the friend and just go for the one I like, but with Western women you have to “game” the entire group, including the ugly one with attitude. Girls who I would never interact with voluntarily hold the keys to my sexual success, and besides day gaming, there’s nothing I can do about it.

7. They are slaves to the “natural” seduction. They believe that amazing and intimate moments happen to them passively and that they shouldn’t put conscious effort into helping it along. In Eastern Europe, you can actually use logic to get a girl in bed. You can ask her, “Have you made love with an American man before?” and if she says no you can respond, “Well now is your opportunity. Let’s go to my apartment, listen to some good music, and make love.” While the girl would laugh and say no, we would then go to my apartment, listen to music, and bang. Say a similar line to a Western girl and she’d think you were a desperate creep because you’re verbalizing something that should “just happen.” You can’t talk about sex and must hope instead that you two tumble on the ground and your dick pops into her vagina. The bathroom line I wrote about in Bang that is stupid effective to get into an American girl’s place is too corny to use on Eastern European women.

As much as I’ve blasted Western women here, I go in fresh with every new encounter. Believe it or not, my biases won’t automatically come up if tomorrow I happen to meet, say, an Irish girl. I’m warm, affectionate, and maybe even a little romantic. That’s a problem because Western women don’t want a man with those traits—Eastern European women do. Western women want comedians who fit a profile of something they recently saw in a romantic comedy where sex happens magically while the man pretends all along that he doesn’t want sex. He accomplishes that by constantly teasing and making jokes. Apparently I used to be good at doing the same, but it doesn’t seem to be the case anymore. Without any doubt in my mind I can tell you that my ability at banging Western girls has gone down. And I think that’s the best thing that has happened to me.

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HCE
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HCE
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“Say a similar line to a Western girl and she’d think you were a desperate creep because you’re verbalizing something that should “just happen.” You can’t talk about sex and must hope instead that you two tumble on the ground and your dick pops into her vagina.”

Indeed – I’ve written about this several times before, and it’s really infuriating. Girls are in eternal slavery to the “it just happens” idea. While this makes a man with good Alpha/cocky-funny game likely to bang them very quickly, it’s absolutely infuriating when it comes to naturally expressing desire or complimenting. A single sentence about how you like her or what you’ve liked about her or when you started liking her will send you spinning one-way into the friendzone and that’s it.

It happened to me a lot before I developed good game, and it’s still one of the kinds of female behaviour that I despise the most.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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its tru Roosh – everythiong you have sadi …its all true ….

Lurker
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Interestingly you seem to be embracing the subtle move towards “confident beta”. This is surprising considering your perception of beta males during your earliest stays in Europe.

Alexandre Takahashi
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Dude… There’s no plausible reason to put up with these social freaks…
I’ve tried “american” game here in Brazil with poor results and I really hope things keep this way. Girls here are still normal!

rokiroo
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rokiroo
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you seem to be becoming a better man!

samseau
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samseau
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Think about it this way Roosh; although you aren’t banging the same quantity of girls, the girls you do bang seem to be better quality overall – you banged a virgin for Christsakes. Do you think you would have gotten the virgin with regular asshole game?

beta_plus
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I remember someone on the forum saying that game is like boxing – if you even take 2 weeks off it messes up your timing. Sounds like he was right if even Roosh had problems.

I’m sure Roosh will be back in championship form quickly.

DC Opportunist
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Hell if you think about it you can turn any slight “mistake” to your benefit. If a western girl calls you out on anything you’ve said (which they almost always do) tell them you’ve been traveling from country to coutry for so long you forget the subtle nuances of western conversation. Western girls love and will forgive a well traveled man with experience.

Ministy of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, D.R.G.
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Ministy of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, D.R.G.
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I don’t read that as a criticism of your skills, but of the character of Western women as a whole. I have yet to seed my way across Europe, but I can say after spending a lot of time in Asia and the Middle East that “just being myself,” which is to say more polite, caring, and sincere than I would be otherwise works in my favor WAY better than it does in the West where I always have to be “on.”

Whenever I hear nonsense about how independent (Western) women are I think back to all the times I’ve been in the situation you described: a girl is into me, one of her ugly friends isn’t, so naturally she cannot leave with me or even keep my company. She absolutely NEEDS her friends approval, meaning she really isn’t independent at all. It’s gotten to the point where I seldom approach girls in groups with unattractive cockblockers. It’s no longer worth my while to try to win the approval of obnoxious, ugly girls to get a potential bang. Once in a blue moon in Asia sure, but fuck around in the West and you have to do this ALL THE TIME. I wonder if attractive girls realize how many high-quality men (i.e. men above holding court with hogs) their ugly friends repel?

Keith
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Keith
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I totally feel you on this one Roosh. I spend about two months a year out of the US on either work or holiday, and when I come back my game is all out of whack. It has to be “re-calibrated” for western women.

My current strategy in the US has been to approach both day and night, and when I meet them, quickly “NEXT” / screen out women who:

1) Do not have decent travel experience, as worldly travel[outside of western europe]is one indicator of an open mind.

2) Don’t seem connected to their culture of origin, and/or don’t seem concerned about mine. For example, I met a sexy Dominican-American girl on a night bike ride, and during the convo she talked about her country and family, and asked about the food of my culture. This puts her ahead of the curve. Sounds simple, but most American women are not thoughtful enough for this kind of talk.

I’m still adding to this list. These are things help screen out women that are TOO “westernized” here in the US, and enable me to use game that isn’t so cocky and based on superficial/comedian conversation.

– Keith

cookie9001
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cookie9001
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Western women are way too unforgiving. When I was still a clueless Beta I took girls to dinner and whatnot, and would get nothing in return. Or sometimes I’d compliment a girl (who were usually in the 6 range, yet thought they were a 10) and she’d laugh and insult me because I wasn’t a huge asshole to her.
In contrast I recently dated a Nicaraguan Punta dancer (solid 8). We went on the most awkward first date ever (we went to get lunch, but the chef went on break so we sat there for an hour and a half before finally getting food), yet she still wanted to go out with me again and we ended up banging latter that evening.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Amazing post, which has reignited my desire to travel to greener pastures after your story of the last few days. Pure truth from beginning to end.

The G Manifesto
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“I remember someone on the forum saying that game is like boxing”

Might have been me.

I relate everything in life to boxing.

—–

Roosh,

When you say “Western Women”, are you throwing in girls from Spain and France into that mix?

Are French girls from Montreal getting thrown in?

– MPM

[Roosh: By “Western” I predominately mean Anglo, with qualities shared by some in Western Europe and Scandinavia.]

Krauser
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Personally, I’d consider it shedding dead weight. Having mixed with the class of Europe, there’s no reason to go back to the sewer of native English speakers

Tampa
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Tampa
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I can confirm, it’s pretty awful out there on the streets of DC. I can’t get over how you can’t be nice.

Omega Man
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Omega Man
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I don’t know how many men could master that kind of game, even if they wanted to. There is an emotional cost to that. Your soul is a valuable thing. Go foreign early.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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“Are French girls from Montreal getting thrown in?”

Born and raised in Montreal… I would say yes. We’re all Westerners here my friend. There’s no notable difference in character between girls of any large North American city.

Matt H.
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Matt H.
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So disturbing and so true. I wish there was a way to reverse the situation at home.

Jimjack
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Jimjack
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Damnit, I just came back from Africa one month ago and I really have problems getting used to the Western girls again… It seems to be so much more difficult… especially in Germany, maybe that is just a bias but I get this impression for years now.

Nigel Davis
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Hmmmm, I don’t have these problems with fat American bitches. Roosh, have you considered fat acceptance? I understand if you don’t like big women, but with fat acceptance you can employ different game, and it’s easier to have condomless sex.

Jordan
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Jordan
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Great Post Roosh! Its so true, your Margin for error is very small. One slip up even after many great interactions or dates could easily mean the end. You have to be on your game every second never letting your guard down. I haven’t yet gamed in EE but in South America (Peru, Colombia) Girls just want a nice genuine guy that treats them well.

David H. Fucktrelle-Male Feminist Extraordinaire™
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noo rooshiepoops you are wrong….

high fruitcose corn syrup and feminism has made the west the best….

oh, except for low status men who are subhuman to the feminist critique and don’t matter anyways….

Mike
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Mike
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Well really, why waste your time on WG ? I comeon, once you tried the foreigners there’s no going back anyway.
I have ocmpletely given up on western girls. When I see them on the street I can recognize them from miles away. The way they walk, dress, their entire body language.
They are oozing hostility, arrogance and anger. Once you’ve seen that, they will know that you’ve seen it…and you and them will be enemies for ever.

shiva1008
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Maybe this explains why I have a harder time than most adopting western game. I spent a lot of time in India (could have been anywhere that expands your mind). So I’m less willing to take shit from american women.

On the pragmatic side, the “it just happens” thing can be reverse-engineered to work for you, rather than against you. Obviously some already know this, but it’s news to me and it’s helpful to understand the mentality if you want to partake of the finest of sewer waters that we have on offer here.

michelin
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michelin
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I wished all American (men and women) had Roosh’s insight about this difference.

The world would be a better place.

Rollo Tomassi
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Roosh, question about point 5.

5. They think they are hotter or better than they actually are.

Do yo find that western women in a foreign venue (such as the place you described) calibrate their attitudes or have any thoughts about the eastern women in the same club outclassing them physically? Or is it complete western obliviousness to their SMV in that venue?

[Roosh: They don’t calibrate, they simply withdraw from the dating market. American girls in Ukraine, for example, would go out and only hang with expats while complaining about the local dating scene. The cuter ones may adjust a bit (wear heels more often) but the low quality ones don’t change their behavior or appearance. They rationalize why they don’t want to date in that city. In a resort environment, like Hvar, they act like they would in a trip to Las Vegas, so more slutty clothes but similar attitude.]

Sam Spade
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On the other hand, non-Western women being more feminine will leave you feeling more masculine. American game may be funny/cocky, but that romcom crap also detracts from the natural male/female balance. I.e. Western women use too much funny/cocky on their own which needs to be constantly trumped. They’re like penisless men.

Roger
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Roger
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“Western 5s don’t give you love—they cockblock you and make fun of you.”

This isn’t because they think they’re hotter than they are. This is because they have learned to get a dopamine hit from rejecting others in lieu of enjoying people’s company. Instead of sexual power, they enjoy the power of putting others down. Sadly, in the process they become husks.

At some point I realized that the Anglosphere woman was not just another cultural variation, but they stand alone in being a poisoned tree. I realized that women from all other countries can be treated normally – they respond as human beings. It’s only in the English-speaking countries that women are so disconnected from their true natures.

madmax
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”5. They think they are hotter or better than they actually are”

that’s really the whole problem, probably. These bitches are arrogant. I myself have found ugly, fat bitches who delude themselves in thinking they can make a man believe she’s actually attractive.

Hell, I have heard fat skanks say ‘I know I am attractive’ ( she wasn’t saying that to me, or I would have puked). But I have also heard eastern european cool, really attractive girls, say ‘I am just an average girl’. America is full of bullshit…that bullshit educate women there to be full of shit. UK and Australia come right after.

LS
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LS
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I think when Western women meet Western men abroad, their standards all of a sudden shoot up, where they normally wouldn’t, had the both of you been back home. After all, they’re overseas and looking for the exotic. When they run into a guy from “home” he’ll certainly have to jump through more hoops to keep interest.

Mike
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Mike
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“Do yo find that western women in a foreign venue (such as the place you described) calibrate their attitudes or have any thoughts about the eastern women in the same club outclassing them physically? Or is it complete western obliviousness to their SMV in that venue?”

In Thailand I’ve seen Western girls being completely outcompeted by the local girls, yet still keeping up their bitchy attitude.

The local girls are friendly and often try to get in contact with you without you even doing anything.

Obviously the Wester girls cannot do anything against that, so they resort to calling the guys there sex tourist and “not being able to handle western women”. It cracks me up every time.

Guys there simply ignores them since the tables has turned completely. It’s actually an utter joy !
I found this blog about the phenomeon.
http://www.bangkokdiaries.com/2007/08/02/why-western-girls-hate-thailand-and-especially-thai-girls/comment-page-1/

Don't
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Don't
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In Thailand, Western girls are very appreciated for their beauty and their features are greatly admired by Thai girls as it is very obvious. Thai girls have inferiority complex towards Western girls so they are the ones being outcompeted by Western women.

And Western women have high standards. Just something to think about. Easy and cheap ones sell much faster. Logic.

Amanjaw Marcuntte
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Amanjaw Marcuntte
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Hey Roosh, did you piss in a certain porcine mangina‘s corn flakes recently? He’s become obsessed with you.

[Roosh: He made two hater posts about me last week but they sent about 210 hits total. The first 30 minutes of a tweet of mine sends that much traffic. He’s inconsequential and seems to target dykes who are obsessed with rape. Even to feminists he’s extreme.]

dragnet
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dragnet
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Bolt definitely banged all three of those chicks—the guy is a stud.

thedude3737
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thedude3737
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Goddamn Roosh. While I haven’t had half the experiences you’ve had or ever been to EE, what you’re saying resonates on so many levels. Every point you just made is a verbatim description of my nightlife lately.

Para
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Para
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Man,I think you idealize eastern european girls too much where in reality the western virus has already landed in Poland for instance you can see it happening realy quick,its unbelivable,I have been seeing this shit with my own eyes over the last couple years

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Losing the ability, Roosh? Does your dick not work?

Misashi
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Misashi
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As an Asian man living in a hick Canadian east coast college town, I can only attest that Western women are just ridiculously arrogant and on many levels implicitly racist. The fat ones are just simply deluded thinking they are a 10.

I have had significantly better game in Vancouver, even before I was introduced to the concepts of PUA and game; of which I am alluding to the large number of first generation Asian immigrants creating a more even playing ground.

fuck_spain
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I don’t think you are describing traits only for the women in the anglosphere. I live in Spain,and most men have the same complaints about women (except for the high obesity rate). After being with foreigners all my life I can be sure I don’t want to get involved with spaniards any longer. My girlfriend is portuguese , and the difference is very remarkable.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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The truth is harsh and difficult, but its still the truth. Western women are garbage. They make a sport out of being mean, usually cockblocking themselves in the process. Western women love being abused by men too. It’s a tough scene here in the US. I can’t wait to make enough money to leave this shitty culture behind for a while.

Aleph
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Aleph
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On point #5: I’m certain these days that the ugly cockblocker phenomenon is an expression of beta female game. It’s how socially aggressive ugly girls get laid. Sort of how like beta males look to scavenge the approaches of an alpha by attempting to interject into a conversation, he beta female forcefully interjects under the pretense of “saving” her friend.

I cannot tell you how many times a female cockblocker has pulled a 180 from antagonistic to amiable and receptive the moment I made her think I desired her instead of her hot friend.

Senior Beta
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Senior Beta
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Agree with Beta Plus at 7. A week back in DC and you will be getting laid again like a champ. Just get a good set of ear plugs.

Buitre
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@38 fuck_spain

“I don’t think you are describing traits only for the women in the anglosphere. I live in Spain,and most men have the same complaints about women”

Actually I didn’t find it too hard to meet girls in the Metro when I was in Madrid. Try that in Miami, you will see what a bitchy attitude really is!!

Kenny Lives
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Kenny Lives
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I went to Cuenca Ecuador a couple of years back and it’s amazing how arrogant and full of themselves the few attractive local girls were. Just like American chicks.
But when I talked to the girls from the coastal region living in cuenca, they were much nicer sexier and responsive. Its definitely a regional thing, not so much a national thing.

anon
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anon
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how did this happen to the US?

Raza
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Raza
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western women are good for one thing: practice.

passanger
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passanger
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Its only few years until western bitches will officially demand to be called “Queens”, Ladies, Dominatrix or Goddesses. And treated this way.
If you dont comply, get the hell out.
There are legions of betas willing to make their way into a Bitches feets. or under their boots…

You’re doomed in the West, its a total female supremacy, and you better start copulation with some chinese or philipina chicks.

Raj
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Raj
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Allow me to present a alternative theory.

Attitude problems in Anglo women come from not high but low self esteem.

They reject nice men because from their prespective a man treating them nice does not see them as the terrible person they know themselves to be. This leads them to conclude that the nice guy is not intelligent/worthy of respect.

An assholes’s prespective matches their own view of themselves.

‘I know I am attractive’ < If you hear a woman say this, know that she is only trying to convince herself. In reality she views herself as not attractive. Women are great at lying to others as well as their own selves.

Also western vs non-western women's attitude can only be compared by observing how they each treat their own local males, not a tourist from US.

Dean
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Dean
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That’s a one out of five night success rate, which is actually worse than what I was getting in Washington DC before I left

Roosh,

Does this mean that you were sleeping with a new girl every 4 days in DC? Were you sleeping with 80-100 girls a year? That’s some serious numbers if that were the case.

[Roosh: No no. Once every five nights going out.]

Rudebwoy
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Rudebwoy
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Guess we won’t be seeing a Bang Toronto anytime soon.
Now you know what we Torontonians have to deal with.

Old lady on a bus
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Old lady on a bus
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Dave Fucktrelle always tells it how it is