American Girls Are Using Negs Now

I remember when I’d never get approached by women, even when I went out four nights a week. I accepted that I was not a good-looking guy whose looks alone could propel a woman to start chasing. I didn’t cry about it since I was still able to get laid by approaching, but it did gnaw at me that other guys had to put far less effort than I had to.

Then slowly, as I optimized my look and improved my body language, posture, mannerisms, and so on, more girls approached me, or at least gave me steady eye contact. Unfortunately it wasn’t from the girls I wanted (their attractiveness was in the 4-6 range), but I welcomed the attention anyway. Their approaches were usually very simple, along the lines of asking a question about the bar or making a compliment about something I was wearing.

These days, the quality of girls who approach me has jumped up a bit to the 5-7 range, with the once-in-a-blue-moon 8, yet it’s still not frequent enough or at a consistent quality that I can stop approaching myself. In the past two years I’ve noticed another change: American women have started using negs on me. Of course no one knows how to really use negs, so they just come across as insults. Here are some recent examples:

“Did you just come from an ugly sweater party?” (I wasn’t wearing what I thought to be an ugly sweater.)

“I want the chair you’re sitting on.”

“Why are you wearing my dad’s tie clip?”

Sometimes the girl is not using the neg as an opener, but as a failed attempt at teasing early in the interaction. They make fun of my hairy arms or my retro flower shirt or whatever else I’m wearing without using a scrap of charm or humor. We’re talking straight-up insults.

When this happens, I look at the girl and say, “Does that pick-up line usually work? Because it sucks.”

“Uh, uh, it’s not a pick up line! You wish it was!”

Reverse the genders. That little dialogue sounds familiar, doesn’t it? We’ve come full circle my friends.

Now allow me to trace the history of girls using negs:

1. The Game was released, teaching guys to go around insulting girls. Negs were the main principle of the book mentioned in dozens of articles and television reports. Unfortunately they don’t work like newbies thought they would. Maybe it did work at some point on a certain type of girl that Mystery approached, but it doesn’t any more. Negs are like punching a girl in the face and saying “it works” just because you got a reaction. Truth is playful teasing remains king in building attraction at night.

2. American girls, who have become increasingly clueless on how to flirt, learned about the neg concept via the media and figured it would be suitable to use on guys. Girls are stupid in that they think there are no gender-specific rules or techniques. Believe it or not, they still think us guys judge them based on things like their career and stability.

The men have no idea how to act like men and the women have no idea how to act like women. They learn mistakes from each other, and neither get what they want as the culture slowly loses knowledge of how to efficiently mate with the opposite sex without copious amounts of alochol. It’s sad if it wasn’t so amusing.

It’s 2011 and everyone is trying to use negs. The neg is officially dead.

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Tim
Tim
9 years ago

It’s true that chicks still think guys judge them on many other things than looks. However, i do see assertiveness in females being repetively rewarded because many guys simply don’t have the balls and willpower to frequently approach themselves. Negs may be a way for females to display this assertiveness.

Also, fortunately the neg is far from dead in my country (the netherlands, i love how a chick rejects or ignores tons of guystrying to be sweet, after which i can easily capture her attention with a quick neg.

Snoeperd
Snoeperd
9 years ago

Bullshit, the neg isnt dead, how else are you gonna show that you arent affected by her presumed higher value. You do however have to disguise them more effectively, not punch ‘m in the face with it.

Like: “I like your golden earrings, they’re like the ones i saw in the fresh prince of bell air”.

ps: btw tim, woon je in amsterdam? gr

The G Manifesto
9 years ago

This is pretty funny stuff.

“The Game was released, teaching guys to go around insulting girls.”

I still think a lot of people overestimate the impact of The Game and pick up artists in general. Sure I have seen some of those characters out and about at night (the ones on the tv shows are the only ones I would recognize) asking girls a bunch of open-ended questions, but only in really weesh venues in West Hollywood or somewhere similar.

Its not like you see guys with muliticolored spiky hair, leather wrist bands and shiny shirts neging people at Les Caves Du Roy Bar in St Tropez, The French Laundry or Cipriani Downtown etc.

“slowly loses knowledge of how to efficiently mate with the opposite sex without copious amounts of alochol”

Don’t forget drugs.

“The neg is officially dead.”

This is kind of like when Nas said, “Hip-Hop is Dead”

Snoeperd,

“how else are you gonna show that you arent affected by her presumed higher value”

By having true confidence in yourself. If you think she has “presumed higher value” than yourself you are already down on the score cards and cut before the fight begins.

Roy Battie
Roy Battie
9 years ago

I had a roommate several years ago who read and swore by “The Rules”. In hindsight i remember that she never gave compliments about your looks, and basically used “negs” (about looks/clothes) on a steady basis.

The Rookie
9 years ago

I think most guys would be happy to be insulted, just for the interaction alone. That allows girls to full neg ahead.

Tyler
9 years ago

I quickly realized that negging never seemed to help any interaction. It’s a delicate thing anyways, and I see most guys flat out insulting girls. A little wit and charm got me much more than making fun of a girl’s earrings.

T. AKA Ricky Raw
9 years ago

I do agree that American women neg more than ever. I disagree as to the reason. I don’t think that many of them know about the Game or anything, I just think they’re becoming more obnoxious and narcissistic people in general, and that just happens to be one more side effect. i think the fact it resembles negs is just coincidental. They’re just being their naturally obnoxious selves because they’re brats. If you ever interact with bratty kids, they do the same thing.

FretDancer
9 years ago

I always welcome a neg (or neg attempt) from a girl. It’s always funny, wether they know how to apply one or not, which is going to vary on the response she gets.

I don’t think I’ve had much problems using negs, it’s all about practice, timing and tone and a little of kino.

I’ve been seing this Mystery guy mentioned alot these past days, who is he?

Willy Wonka
9 years ago

At least we still have the copious amounts of alcohol to get us by….

Assanova
9 years ago

As long as there are assholes and women who are complete bitches, the neg will exist. The only difference is that assholes and women who are complete bitches are able to execute it in a much more congruent fashion, and they don’t always usually use it as an opener.

The G Manifesto
9 years ago

T. AKA Ricky Raw,

“I don’t think that many of them know about the Game or anything, I just think they’re becoming more obnoxious and narcissistic people in general, and that just happens to be one more side effect. i think the fact it resembles negs is just coincidental.”

I think you are dead on. I think it is coincidence.

“Negs” as people call them have been around forever.

Girls don’t use negs because they read some semi-obscure book about a guy who shaved his head and another who wore fuzzy goggles.

American Girls use them because they don’t know how to communicate (except by texting) and don’t have any parents or rolemodels (media or otherwise) that teach them poise and grace.

– MPM

Tuthmosis
Tuthmosis
9 years ago

I’ve noticed an increase in girl negs myself. Just chalk it up as another masculine trait in the American woman. Women, by and large, are copycats that herd toward whatever trend they perceive 51% of the population doing. No surprise.

But, I don’t think the neg is dead. I think the neg has changed. For one, women are rarely as good as a well-honed player at it. So our new neg is the skillful redirection of their lame insults. Instead of the old shitty Mystery negs (“your nose wrinkles when you smile”) we need to be more backhanded and subtle to be effective. Frankly, this also cuts out a lot of betas from the rolls.

Anonymous44
Anonymous44
9 years ago

I haven’t noticed the use of negs so much, but I have noticed that hot girls are out-right adopting Game. I watch them in action, and I’m amazed. They just take our PUA techniques, and feed them back to us. Coming from a woman, it just isn’t attractive.

I think the girls are copying what worked on THEM, assuming it works in reverse too. A girl gets picked up enough times, say, more than 10 or 20, and she gets a feel for Game.

Anonymous44
Anonymous44
9 years ago

I agree to not punching the girls in the face with negs. I’m surprised by how many sensitive girls I’ve run into who avoid me after a neg. You think you are making a light joke; they take it to heart.

I’ve also noticed, many girls are speaking in a way that makes it hard to get a neg in. They keep their bitch shields in stealth mode. It is like they are expecting the neg, and try to avoid or otherwise disqualify you gently, without leaving any opening for a neg. They try to be so nice, you feel gosh-darn bad about launching an n-bomb at them.

Firepower
Firepower
9 years ago

I come not to praise The Neg, but to bury it.

If the neg is indeed dead, then that means many, many years renewal for pua forums teaching ‘new’ pua counter-tactics at field sems..

gringoed
gringoed
9 years ago

Good post Roosh. I’m starting to think that the only good thing that “The Game” did was get shy guys approaching.

Negs aren’t necessary, and 90% of the time they do more harm than good. In the rare case that they do help, it’s probably a girl you wouldnt want to be with anyway.

Schwanson
Schwanson
9 years ago

hahahahaha!

Sam Spade
Sam Spade
9 years ago

The fact is, women were using negs long before men thought of them as part of game. Negs are a way for men to turn the tables on women and elevate status. By definition this means that women had already perfected the practice. Think about it – women inherently know they are in demand in most situations, and feel free to test men with teasing, even insulting, comments. This is nothing new, though I wouldn’t be surprised if women are now more conscious of it than in the past.

Snoepers
Snoepers
9 years ago

Well roosh has more exp than me with game and value your insight, but dont agree with you here. Negs arent about insulting, its about you judging her, thereby flipping around the standard script of her being the selector. You can use screening but also judging to do thiz.

Squared
Squared
9 years ago

gringoed:

I’m starting to agree based on my own experiences and what I see and hear around me, and I think this line of thought is slowly becoming more popular in the general game community as well. In that sense, success with women is akin to success in telemarketing. 90% of it is purely a numbers game. The rest is fluff.

Paul
Paul
9 years ago

Women using negs is simply a sign of the times my friends. Their false confidence is at a high level which means their use of negs is a false attempt of showing higher value…god this society is so dysfunctional…reverse gender mating is as gross as the huge black tranny’s that roam the french quarter…shit aint right.

Regardless, a woman using a neg on me is laughable at best, but I still must reverse that role, and sometimes the shock value of reversing the roles as Roosh points out is the most appropriate cut down to their feminist ego. Showing the woman who the fuckin man is should be your mantra…not your words. Body language is most important in alpha representation. If she can’t grasp that she’s not a man she isn’t worthy of the ravishing. Period.

Big Snot
Big Snot
9 years ago

Ha- an 8 in DC. yeah right

Big Snot
Big Snot
9 years ago

And is there a whole beer commercial campaign centered on the female neg? Cue commercial… Hot bartender chick: You’re a pussy and your shirt sucks Dude: Looks sad… Music: DA NA NA da nanana NA NA!

Acksiom
Acksiom
9 years ago

IIRC, Snoepers is technically correct. What most folks here are labeling as “negs” actually aren’t. They’re just put-downs.

Originally, the phrase was “neg hits”, meant in the sense of “inverse openers” — hitting on a girl in a way that communicated the confidence of inherently higher social value, and REGARDLESS of the woman involved, and usually as a replacement for the supplicative behavior of lower AFCness rather than just avoiding it (and thereby showing its NLP roots).

But because of human nature, the attributed meaning quickly devolved to just put-downs, assisted by the fact that put-downs sometime can function as negative hits, by communicating that higher social value.

sugartits
sugartits
9 years ago

The more attractive girls are less likely to approach men anyway, point being it’s something that men can’t control and so isn’t a good way to judge ones attractiveness to women. Attractive women are approached so often, any guy may as well give it a try, if you are worried about being like every other guy, than may as well never approach a hot girl at all, because plenty truly have heard it all.

Negs are annoying and charmless. But I have seen many girls fooled into taking insults from men to heart, and it can make them self-conscious so the fellow gets an upper-hand in the interaction. It’s funny there are actually girls who fall for the red-herring that is a feigned lack of sexual interest. Girls who fall for that show that they are inclined to self-doubt, easily taking the opinion of others they barely know about themselves, instead of having a solid sense of self. A man doesn’t hear someone call him some insult and think “umm, maybe they have a point and I am X”, becoming inspired to some cognitive dissoonance regarding his look or character. This is why negs won’t work on men like it will on women.

Playful teasing and flirting are synonymous, it’s classic boy-meets-girl. I think it’s more feminine to flirt other ways, with more flattery and genuine interest in another. Some girls have too much pride or something to just let a man know she is into him, it has to be so, because women have nothing at all to lose from hinting. Why have women driven men into having to fear approaching/rejection, to have to neg and break down walls.