Date Rape Druggings Are A Myth

Almost every girl I know has told me a “Some guy at the bar put something in my drink” story. And I never believe them.

The purpose of date rape drugs is to render a girl unconscious. But to isolate the girl where he can rape her, a guy has to pick her up on his own and leave the bar or club with her. If he is already able to leave the club with a girl, he doesn’t need drugs to have sex with her because she’ll have sex with him anyway. Do girls honestly think a random dude they never met is drugging their drinks so she will pass out randomly on the dance floor, making a discreet rape impossible?

A few months ago I was with three other friends at a bar when one of them was accused by a white girl—who he didn’t exchange a word with—of putting a roofie in her drink. Even though no pill was found, the bouncer kicked him out because their policy states that the accusation alone is enough. But this only applies to men because I reverse accused the same girl of putting a roofie in my drink and she got to stay. There was a policeman there and I told him that if my friend really did that then why doesn’t he investigate and arrest someone. His response: “Get out of my face or I will arrest you.” Girls don’t hesitate to make up false accusations because they always get the benefit of the doubt (they are honest angels) and there is no punishment if they are caught lying.

“I think I was drugged” is just a convenient excuse for girls to binge drink and lose self-control. The girls you see stumbling in the bar and vomiting on the street are victims, not morons. Well now we have a study which proves these girls are not getting drugged:

Women who claim to be victims of ‘date-rape’ drugs such as Rohypnol have in fact been rendered helpless by binge-drinking, says a study by doctors.

They found no evidence that any woman seeking help from emergency doctors because their drinks were allegedly spiked had actually been given these drugs.

Around one in five tested positive for recreational drugs while two-thirds had been drinking heavily.

Next time a girl tells you she thinks she was drugged because she passed out or can’t remember anything, remind her that those are side effects of alcohol. Then watch as her face fills with contempt because you don’t agree that deep inside every man is a rapist. Women want to be seen as equals but they are not willing to shake the “I’m a helpless victim” mentality.

Postscript: Full text of “A study of patients presenting to an emergency department having had a spiked drink” published in the peer reviewed Emergency Medicine Journal. Number of girls who are going to read it: zero.

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Steve Lurkel
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so it’s just a myth? Like sasquatch and the chupacabra? I’ll be damned.

KassyK
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When you go to the hospital after one shot and passing out and get tested and find roofies in your blood…you’ve been roofied.

I might be backing out of happy hour for this post.

AAnonymous
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AAnonymous
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You’re going to get shredded for this post. There’s a decent point hidden, but this is the key problem:

“If he is already able to leave the club with a girl, he doesn’t need drugs to have sex with her because she’ll have sex with him anyway.”

While roofie accusations are almost certainly hugely overstated, somehow I don’t think the idea that any girl that leaves any bar/club with any guy is planning to have sex — implicitly consenting, even, it sounds like — is accurate.

Still, considering that most date-rape drugs take effect in a matter of minutes (as opposed to hours), random spiking is probably rare and almost never “effective”. More likely is actual “date-rape” as opposed to a bar or club or whatever.

AAnonymous
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Whoops, submitted too soon. The other important part is that the type of guys who are likely to use roofies probably DON’T KNOW all this stuff. While “I was roofied and then three hours later suddenly passed out and was assaulted” stories are pretty dubious, the “I had a drink in a club and then 20 minutes later lost motor control and had to go to the hospital” stories are disturbingly common and pretty believable, I think. Never underestimate the combination of malevolence and idiocy.

J
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J
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I don’t know that I would consider it a myth, but I do agree that it’s become a convenient excuse at times, which would explain why the numbers are what that study suggests. For example, if one woman actually IS drugged, it can then become what the study suggests for 3 others who want it as an excuse.

While I think the statement “it’s a myth” is wrong, it’s good to see you’re posting things like this as opposed to coffee shop recommendations.

Matt
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I think you missed the mark here. Although I do agree that such druggings are overstated, having seen the effects first hand, I can assure you that if someone is slipped one of these drugs, they are at the mercey of whomever happens to be around.

My lady and I took one of her friends out for her birthday recently in Boston. I was completely sober, anticipating having to take care of somebody. We first ate dinner, the friend had no beverages at dinner. We next met with a group of aquantances from her new job. One particular guy was paying close attention to her.

Remember, no drinks had been consumed at this point. The guy in question, goes to the bar, and buys everyone a beer, and the birthday girl one shot. Yes one shot, and a few sips of a beer.

Minutes later he is carrying her, she is draped over him barely able to walk, he is telling everyone he will take her home. I jump in and say she is all set, and try to carry her to my car.

Remember, one shot and several sips of beer. At this point, the girl cannot walk at all, she loses control of her bladder while standing, wearing a skirt, and thinks nothing of it, she is just pissing all over the street while walking. I sit her down while I try to get into the car, while I am not looking she manages to stand up for a second, and then falls directly on her face, knocking out her front teeth and breaking her nose in a bloody mess.

Through all of this she is laughing. She had no recollection the next day. One shot, and a few sips of beer.

phi
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Not always a myth, and its ignorant to think that. A friend of mine went out for happy hour with coworkers, she had one glass of wine. Unfortunately, she didn’t go get the drinks, one of her coworkers went to the bar. Afterwards, she couldn’t stay awake, her (dumb-ass) coworkers threw her in a cab and sent her way. She spent the next 24 hours throwing up and ill in the most horrendous way possible.

Clea
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Clea
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You didn\’t even accurately describe the effects of Rohypnol. I think this post is just wishful thinking on your part.

Murdoc's girl
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I’ve had three friends say they were roofied. Two know for sure, thanks to blood tests, that it happened. The third, by all accounts, exhibited all signs of immediate drugging on very few drinks and was taken home immediately to pass out.

Oh, and one of the two roofie-positives was gang raped in a bathroom. She only remembers flashes of multiple different men raping her while she was mostly unconscious.

With those odds, I’m going to believe someone who says they were roofied. Call me crazy.

MM
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Wow, you are a woman hater. I’ve never seen it happen myself, but I’ve heard stories of DC men carrying unconscious girls out of a club. I was told these stories by another guy, who is a regular on the DC club scene. I don’t know, man. Taking advantage of an extemely drunk, half-passed out girl is pretty bad as well, unless you are that drunk yourself. This post kinda saddens me and makes me glad I quit drinking.

Genevieve
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While I understand your point, it sure seems like you don’t respect women too much.
Taking a girl home to have sex with her when she’s trashed is the same thing as date rape, roofie or not.

Just think about it this way; no one ever listens to anything girls say or take us seriously; this is the one of the few instances where our word is the gospel. Suck it up and get over it.

LaPay
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This “study” was conducted in Britain, yes? Everyone knows that women in the UK out-drink the rest of the world.

Convenient of you to attribute this behavior to American women, whom you despise so, when real studies show that Europeans, whom you so worship, are the biggest drinkers of all.

Ned
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I remember when my friend got “roofied.” Months later her friends later told me, she just had too much to drink. When I saw this study, I smiled.

That’s not to say date raping doesn’t happen, and that it doesn’t suck balls. But its like the person that claims their weed was laced with PCP. 99 times out of 100, that isn’t the case.

jen
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on a slightly different point, the other day i noticed that you can buy tests at CVS to test your drink for date rape drugs. i didn’t examine the box, but i’m guess it’s a package of little dipsticks you dip in the drink when you are suspicious. which raised the question: who is going to carry these things around with them!? if you are suspicious enough of what’s in your drink to test it, why not just dump it out and order a new one? i concluded that the people who buys those tests must either be alcoholics or have very expensive taste in liquor.

but yeah, of COURSE it happens that girls are drugged, and of COURSE it happens that other girls falsely claim to be drugged to explain their behavior. it’s a no-brainer. trying to make a controversy out of it either way is foolish.

Rusty
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Lots of drugs like GHB don’t knock the victim out but rather make them very, very intoxicated and pliable. And, guess what, raping an unconscious victim is easy if you aren’t at a bar. People drink in frat houses you know.

I don’t even want to get into your horrible assumption that going home with a guy equals consent.

I have to imagine this post is for attention because it comes off as unresearched, foolish, and incredibly mean-spirited.

Huh?
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“Do girls honestly think a random dude they never met is drugging their drinks so she will pass out randomly on the dance floor, making a discreet rape impossible?”

Except that effects of flunitrazepam, more commonly known as rohypnol, do not typically include unconsciousness. Effects typically include ataxia, confusion, amnesia, impaired judgment, dizziness, and drowsiness. Make more sense now?

Anonymous
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@huh: you just listed the side effects of alcohol.

Sweat P.
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I think there’s actually a good point in this article, but unfortunately you’re talking about roofies, which really means you’re talking about rape. And rape is a topic that, for better or for worse, has to be handled with kid gloves. It’s too much of a hot button to be talked about frankly and honestly.

namaste
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It actually does happen, and the wonderful thing about roofies is that it leaves the blood system within hours, making it difficult to test positive for in an emergency room. One thing you don’t mention about the drug is that it can make a person like the walking dead–ie: a girl will be able to walk out of club on her own and into your car. She’ll appear overly intoxicated, and have no idea where she is, but she’ll still be on two feet. I once lived with a girl who had a solitary drink at a bar after work, and passed out in the cab on the way home. The cab driver took her to the hospital, where she tested positive for the date rape drug two hours later.

I agree with you about the girl who is a victim of herself when she is out binge-drinking and blacking out. This is otherwise known as an alcoholic. But the guy who has sex with a passed out girl, regardless of whether she drank herself into an oblivion or not, her silence is not her consent, and that guy is still a rapist.

Terrence Koeman
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Very old comment, but just to clarify: that ‘the drug’ leaves the blood stream within hours is bullshit.

The half-life for flunitrazepam (rohypnol) is 18 to 26 hours. And that’s the time it takes until HALF of the drug is gone from the blood.

Besides the drug itself there are metabolites that have a much longer half-life (like 7-aminoflunitrazepam).

ALL benzodiazepines take at least DAYS (and sometimes up to WEEKS) to be actually undetectable in blood and/or urine. This is true even for the shortest-acting benzo (midazolam, half-life of 3 hours).

Maybe you were thinking about GHB, because GHB and its metabolites are naturally present in the body (in very low concentrations) so it’s difficult to determine whether someone was dosed or not if the test is done more than 12-18h after ingestion and the persons baseline is unknown (however, a baseline can still be determined later).

But GHB does not turn someone into a ‘walking dead’ person (nor do benzodiazepines btw) and its notoriously difficult to dose. You’re much more likely to kill or completely knock someone out with GHB than to hit the ‘sweet spot’ by guessing a dose.

What’s probably causing the belief that ‘the drug’ leaves someone’s system ‘within hours’ is that someone will have an atypical (for them) reaction to ethanol, go to the ER, test negative for CNS-depressants other than ethanol, but will insist that they must have been dosed with *something* because they ‘couldn’t have been *that* incapacitated by just alcohol/just the x drinks’.

In fact it happens quite often that someone will have a wildly different reaction to ‘just’ alcohol due to some circumstance(s).

Doctors @ ER don’t tend to argue the point, so people go home with the idea they got slipped ‘something’ that had to have left their blood within hours, instead of them simply having had an atypical reaction to alcohol.

In reality there are practically no drugs that would incapacitate someone *and* be undetectable after just a few hours (or even days). It’s just not how metabolism works…

(With ‘practically’ I mean ‘practically’: some drugs may exist, but someone wouldn’t be able to get or create them).

Irina
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Irina
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whatever man, we chicks always know what we’re doing. we just feel guilty the next day.

inSOMnia
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I know TWO girls who claimed they were drugged but later admit they just drank to much. Some, NOT ALL, girls use it as a desperate means of attention or to rationalize their needs for sexytime. As for this guy who was thrown out I think he sounds like a really cool guy even though we was wrongly accused.

The Dude
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It does happen and it is very very sad and frightening. This should be added reason for people who drank too much not to claim something far more serious happened. As you can see from the testimonials here– this shit does go on and it is totally fucked up. People should not diminish the credibility of the people who truly experience this horrifying situation by falsely attributing binge drinking to something else.

Virgle Kent
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Jesus Christ is this what the whole fucking big deal is about?

Listen, you people aren’t looking at things from BOTH points of views. I can appreciate this because I have two younger sisters and I couldn’t not imagine what I’d do if any guy took advantage of them with drugs. Also as a man I couldn’t picture myself as a woman and being victimized in anyway.

But if a guy is accused and is innocent then he might as well be guilty from accusation. Once a girl accuses you of rape your reputation is gone. I’ve had male friends in college who’ve had to transfer schools after being accused of something like that. Later after they were gone word of mouth spread that the girls completely made it up and didn’t want to look like whores in front of their friends. One girl was pissed at the guy because he wouldn’t date her.

It sucks for both sides but you people need to stop looking at it from one point of view. Yes date Rape happens but yes some girls make it up.

ITS FUCKING FRIDAY AND ITS NICE OUTSIDE!!!!

Huh?
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Anonymous,

“You just listed the side effects of alcohol.”

And?

Within 15 to 20 minutes of taking a single dose of rohypnol – 5 mg or less – a person is no longer physically or mentally capable of preventing rape, and is unlikely to have a clear recollection after the drug’s other effects have worn off. Roosh would like to believe that roofies and other date rape drugs knock a person out, making rape a complicated affair of moving an unconscious person to a safe location. In reality, it simply makes a person unlikely to resist anything – the drug has been, for example, used in a number of robberies.

This is another wonderful example of the wide world of the blogosphere – Roosh has taken hold of a small amount of information about roofies and constructed an argument around that information. Too bad that information is, in fact, a distorted version of reality. One article in the British press does not truth make.

Anon
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My charm is my roofie

Anonymous
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The truth of the accusation depends totally on the personality type of the girl making it. if it comes from an attention whore then i would be very very skeptical. but if it comes from the nice girl next door then maybe something did happen.

Hello, Anonymous...
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Hello, Anonymous...
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The dumbest thing I’ve ever heard…
>>
The truth of the accusation depends totally on the personality type of the girl making it. if it comes from an attention whore then i would be very very skeptical. but if it comes from the nice girl next door then maybe something did happen.
>>
Yes, and she’s going to tell you she’s a whore beforehand. Better yet, she’s wearing the “I’m a whore” t-shirt. I had dozens of “girls next door” willingly drop the panties after the first date. A couple didn’t even qualify as dates. Most of them would lie to their friends about doing it b/c back then it wasn’t so acceptable to cross racial lines in the sack. And Jesus, you think women take the E-Harmony “Whoz a slut and whoz not” test at the police station when they’re filling out a bogus report? Most police are guys. Most guys SUCK at figuring women out. Case closed.

Anonymous
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how about this: it’s true that a lot of women play the victim and lie about being drugged as an excuse for “slutty” behavior…. and it’s also true that a lot of women get roofied and date raped when they’re out a clubs/bars/parties.

these 2 phenomenons aren’t mutually exclusive.

freckledk
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That 1 in 5 bit — That’s like saying that, because there HAVE been cases of persons being falsely and unjustly accused of raping/killing/beating, that the majority of victims are being untruthful. There’s a long, sad history of putting the victim on trial – because they were drunk, because they were wearing a short skirt, because they were into deviant sex, BECAUSE THEY ASKED FOR IT. And you are also forgetting that many rapes and assaults go unreported, which completely throws that 1 out of 5 ratio completely to shit. I’m sure that there are some folks out there who have lied and made false accusations, but that doesn’t mean that most do.

Hello, Anonymous...
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Hello, Anonymous...
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That’s better, but how about this:
1) Rape is horrible.
2) “Date-Rape” drugs are horrible when used in combination with actual rape. (They do have other less insideous medical purposes…)
3) Faking that you were “roofied” is almost as bad as either of the above.
4) Some REAL rape case won’t be taken seriously because of the rediculously high ration of #3 to #1 & #2 combined.

There… That’s closer, eh?

Hello, Anonymous...
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Hello, Anonymous...
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I meant to say “ridiculously high ratio”

Liz
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Liz
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If your sister ever told you she was drugged, would you believe her?

Fucking tool. I hope you get run over by a bus.

freckledk
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In the UK, The Daily Mail (who printed this article) is the equivalent of the NY Post.

Hello, Anonymous...
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Hello, Anonymous...
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My sister, definitely. I know for sure my sister isn’t a lying whore. I can’t say the same, theoretically, for your sister. And don’t act like you’re SO perfect that everything you ever thought about anyone has been 100% dead-on-point accurate and no one in this world has EVER disappointed you by their actions. Yes, you’re even still dating your first boyfriend because he’s such a good guy and you never wanted to bang someone else but couldn’t tell him that’s why you were leaving him so you cheated on him making you the same type of lying deceiver that we’re trying to shame here. Wake up. Obviously there’s more deceit in this world than either of us would like to admit. Frankly, a good dose of skepticism never hurt anybody might keep Anna Nicole’s dead body off EVERY FRICKIN’ NEWS CHANNEL as if we all give a crap.

Truth is:
One bad apple ruins the bunch.

Even if you don’t like it.

Hello, Liz...
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Hello, Liz...
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You need to read: http://www.tuckermax.com/

Rusty
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I regret even chiming in here. It’s clear to me after reading this post and these comments that it’s time to burn the entire fucking Internet down.

Also, I will give someone $100 to slip Roosh date rape drugs.

Anonymous
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Actually, what is sad is that so many men are such scum that women actually have to consider that they might get drugged for sex.

I’m not sure what is more pathetic, a 50-year old cat woman or a 50-year old woman-hating, tail-chasing, bachelor. With your constant display of your hatred of women, I don’t know how you’re going to avoid the latter. People who are consistently unable to have a succesful relationship are usually the ones who blame everything else on the opposite sex. Interesting, intelligent, clever people don’t have to stoop to such lows to explain why their life is so unfulfilling – because it isn’t.

At least the cat lady has companions.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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rusty you have zero credibility after desperately trying to become part of the LNS crowd after putting so much work into making fun of them

Bigger Bitch Than You
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Ummm, what sort of credentials does it take to be OK with rape? (and note Rusty’s post on the LNS Forum that also touched on the subject of people being ok with rape.)

But forgive me, Mr. Anonymous Douchebag you probably have more “hands on” experience with rape than Rusty would.

Roissy
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in light of the righteous indignation in these comments, why do so many women have rape fantasies?

Suz
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Rape fantasies? You mean like jamming something large and splintery into Roosh’s ass for each situation where he mocks rape, then sit back while other people reiterate his reasonings as to why he wasn’t really raped? You know like he’s a liar, or just regretted having sex.

Rape fantasies like that?

BG
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BG
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Hooray no more CHACO!

KassyK
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Roissy–I don’t have them but rape fantasies have nothing to do with wanting to be raped. If you look into psychology…it does not mean that a woman wants to be raped, its a just a part of sexuality…people sometimes have weird fantasies.

Just as many people fantasize about killing someone they hate–they would never do it in REAL LIFE and the idea of doing it in real life is repulsive and vile. The blood, the death…in real life is terrifying but in a fantasy can be enticing for some.

Roosh–Thanks for talking to me about this offline. I appreciate it.

Mandy
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Roissy, how much time do you have? There’s a lot going on here…

Fantasies of being raped are fairly common among women. This is probably because it’s still socially unacceptable for women to fully assert their own sexuality (and i’m not yapping feminist bullshit here – just stating facts). We live in a society that deems sex as a “dirty” thing, unfortunately. It’s bad, or we’re bad for liking it, for wanting it, or initiating it.

Rape fantasies are those of sexual submission. Some women find it arousing to have someone else “in charge” in the bedroom. But the key word is FANTASY. They’re just that. And so being, they ultimately aren’t wrought with any harm – as I would assume both parties participating would know they were acting out a fantasy.

Most importantly, a fantasy doesn’t directly imply that this is something a person actually wants done to her. And to assume so is just plain ignorant. (Not that you were assuming, you were merely asking a perfectly good question).

Think of violence in movies. Not stuff that other people watch, but something you get a rush from. Or horror movies (they do it for me sometimes – give me that rush). It wakes you up… makes your blood pump… but in a good way. But in reality – in REAL life, there’s nothing “good” about being in midst of a violent act, or witnessing that.

I felt your question needed answering Roissy. If I made any sense at all…

This post, I have no words for. It just makes me sad.

Cob
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Roosh. Excellent post, as usual.

Roissy
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shrieking suz:
“Rape fantasies like that?”

no. kind of like this —

“i could sense a presence behind me. i was pressed hard against the stalwart trunk of the oak tree, its bark biting into my palms and breasts. i tried to turn my head around and meet the eyes of this shadowy figure but he had pinned me immobile with a surprising strength i couldn’t begin to match. all i could feel was his hot breath cascading across my neck and cheek. he placed himself to my side briefly and i saw that he was wearing a mask which covered most of his face save his lower jaw — stubble colored his chin and his eyes through the mask were dark and indecipherable. i would have kicked him then and ran for my life but my useless legs were strapped with leather ropes around the tree. i could do nothing but submit to his every probing gesture; a lift here, a nudge there, and finally a hand reached across my belly, at first gently, then with a sudden violent movement he clasped my mound and forced my backside out and open. i was helpless and shaking with terror. his fingers cleaved my furrow and i mewled pathetically, knowing what would happen next. his first thrust tore me apart. i thought i would bleed mortally; that my womb had shattered. he pulled out only for the time it took to whisper in my ear ‘your wetness belies your craven nature.'”

i would say 80% of the girls i have dated have admitted in a moment of post-coital candor to harboring rape fantasies very similar to the one i described above. there is often a large tree involved.

kassy:
“If you look into psychology…it does not mean that a woman wants to be raped, its a just a part of sexuality…people sometimes have weird fantasies.”

men are routinely raped in prison yet there is scant evidence that male prisoners, ex-cons, or any straight male for that matter, fantasize about being raped. (i don’t know of data on gay men, though i will hazard a guess that they have rape fantasies in numbers close to straight women.) assuming that women abhor getting raped as much as men owing to the violently penetrative non-consensual nature of the act, why has this peculiar fantasy feature of human sexuality, which is the only one that utterly degrades the victim physically and emotionally, eluded men but not women? (note that rape is different than wanting objects placed in your ass.)

analogously to female rape fantasies, where are the male sexual fantasies of themselves as helpless victims in the only ways that truly strip them of their power? (getting tied up and fucked by a dominatrix does not take away a man’s power. quite the contrary — he is getting exactly what he wants.) surely men hate being cuckholded or having half their wealth taken in a divorce or getting their nuts scraped on a cheese grater, yet there are few signs anywhere of men fantasizing about being victimized in these sex-related ways.

“Just as many people fantasize about killing someone they hate–they would never do it in REAL LIFE and the idea of doing it in real life is repulsive and vile.”

rape fantasies are about being powerless. killing fantasies are about being powerful.
it is a difference in kind, not degree.
the killing fantasies are usually spurred by vengeance, and give true pleasurable feelings to the fantasizer. (serial killers fantasize about killing for its own sake but we justifiably peg them as social misfits.)
rape fantasies are about finding pleasure in the very thing that most horrifies you.

think hard about these questions and you will ultimately stumble across the widest unbridgeable chasm that divides the mental landscapes between men and women.

Kobe Bryant
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Kobe Bryant
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Don’t rape its not cool!!!!!!! Find a morgue and have fun…..

DateRaper
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DateRaper
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If it wasn’t for date rape, I’d never get laid.

Weatherman
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So even though this is a factual study that Roosh has cited, people don’t believe it because it goes against their “feelings?” This is proof America has become a confederacy of dunces. It’s a study, not an editorial — or does no one know the difference.

Chalk the roofies myth up to another Feminist Lie, like the one where more women are beaten up on Super Bowl than any other day of the year (this was proved an Urban Myth by the Washington Post).

Man-hating has become ingrained in our culture and it’s a sad state when a friggin study is dismissed because it upsets people’s “feelings.” Maybe we should just illegalize all science and base all decisions on “feelings.” The above is why guilt-inducing liberals are the same as the Christian idiots they hate so much. Both base decisions on emotions, not logic.