Day Game Killed My Night Game

Long ago it was assumed that the same game could be used for both day and night. It was a foolhardy assumption that took many years to correct, creating two classes of gurus in the process: those good at night and those good during the day. Predictable arguments followed about which venues were better, what game to run, and so on. Some, like myself, advocated taking full advantage of both. Do a couple of day approaches to get your system primed for night, I advised. This is a great idea if you’re not experiencing a lot of success during the day, because once the prospects start rolling in, your night results will be harmed.

The first reason for this harm is that day and night game are like different languages. They require different skills and thinking. Day involves a more conversation game while night requires a more primal and diabolic game. Spending a period of time speaking one language will mean a rough changeover for the other, confusing your brain and causing you to make little mistakes that add up.

Secondly, the two games take a different level of commitment to succeed. Day game is a slow-burn of collecting numbers and then going on pleasant dates. You don’t have to fully invest upon any girl when approaching—ten minutes, in and out, and you can have her number. Night game is different because quick numbers rarely go anywhere. To reduce flaking from night approaches, you must stay in the interaction until some intimacy is achieved. This can take hours. Unless you dedicate at least four hours on a night out, you are not doing enough to succeed.

Now imagine doing both day and night simultaneously. Your day work is leading to numbers. Friday rolls around. You’re sitting on two day prospects, with a tentative date on Sunday. Will you put in a solid four hours in the loud club or will you get “tired” early? Will you get angry at girls who reject you or will your shrug it off? Will you complain about the venue being a sausage fest or will you outcompete other men? Most importantly, will you settle for a flakey number or will you stay up all night for a chance at the bang?

I found that having day prospects made me reluctant to do what it takes to get laid from night work. My one-night stands dried up partly because, with new numbers in my pocket, I was no longer willing to go the distance. In time this came to bother me, because a one-night stand is much more thrilling than a day bang that came after a predictable two dates where there was no real difficulty besides getting her to show up on the first date. Night bangs bring me more pleasure, but the only way to properly pursue them is to have no existing prospects. Therefore the obvious solution was to pare back day gaming. My mind had to know that it had no other option but to go hard on Friday and Saturday nights.

When I took a break from day game, my pipeline quickly went dry and I started to experience anxiety when entering the club. This drove me to work harder than before. The results spoke for themselves: I pulled girls back to my apartment from the club two nights in a row, whereas in the entire six months prior in Ukraine I had only brought one girl home. I didn’t get the one-night stand in either case, but I did eventually smash one of them, who turned out to be a dream girl of sorts.

It was obvious to me that success from day and night is zero-sum, and that doing well in one would simply take away from the other, but my ability to endure long nights has diminished. The days of persisting in the club past 4am is almost gone. I’m starting to dread at the thought of having to put up with hours of loud pop music. While I love the fast night score, my brain is quick to push me into day opportunities it sees, stubbornly refusing to go along with a night only strategy. It seems that I have to accept that my entire sex life will have to come from coffee shops, malls, and town squares instead of bars and clubs. And I’m not sure how I feel about that.

Read Next:Super Easy Day Game Openers

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Jean Talon
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Night clubs are lame anyways. Phony people, expensive drinks, and shitty music. Fuck that.

Purple Penguin
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Plus it takes hours and you’re not productive the next day.
Having a good lifestyle pretty much forces you into day game.

Daddario and Dunlops for me
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What I hate is all the smoke. If you live in a place where smoking in night venues is illegal- then you’re lucky. Around here modt nightmplaces dontmat good music like Paul van Dyk Geore Acosta Minstry of Sound or Ferry Corsten but top 40 pop and corny rap. Where I live in duh South you come out hacking after smelling that nasty cigarette crap. In California they don’t do that non sense in public which is great.
The catty attitudes of girls at clubs is nauseating. We all know most girls in those places will lead to a legal and financial nightmare in 5 years or less if you did marry them- like my Portugese friend from Chicago said you can take the girl out of the club but you cant take the club out of the girl. Besides, i like a Trader Joes or Whole
Foods kinda girl- a little bohemian, creative, intelligent, and artsy (especially music I’ve been playing guitar for almost 20 years- I love jazz and prog rock like Alter bridge).

I honestly have better conversations with girls at Starbucks. For me if I can’t connect and respect a person as an individual I lose interest rapidly to the point where ill just be blunt with them. One thing I hate about duh South is the abysmal levels of emotional intelligence. Keep out of this place if you come here go to Miami, Charleston Sc, and maybe Atlanta or Nashville. We all know Texas is a flat bubba wasteland the NE is cold and socialist and the Mid West sans Chi town is about as exciting as a Cubs game on a Thesday afternoon. I say the West is best- at least people there are intellectual yet fun and love to be outside. I do like the DC to Boston level of directness though. Inguess the forwardness of the people is why DC and NYC are the global power centers- as malevolent as our Country is becoming.

Scott Worthington
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To each his own. I can’t be in club for more than 3 hours, but I have much respect to those who thrive in that atmosphere!

Joseph
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America is just is dysfunctional today- feminism, sexual perversion.

The intent we have in our hearts is projected outward to others. I think loving relationships are the answer. If a person only intends to have cheap throw away sex and not invest their life in a loving relationship- what’s the point in the long run? How
Many
Forty year old
Guys have a bin of disposable 18 year Es- maybe the rich and famous- but the despair of lacking a deep and genuine commitment with another human being us the real tragedy here. Man was made for pair bonding. If we approach women with poor intentions they pick up on that and its a continual cycle of utility. Quality over quantity. Love over lust. Good motives over evil selfish desires.

Purple Penguin
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Women don’t peak at 18, 23-25yo would be more accurate, and you don’t need to be rich or famous, a 40yo man with game can get lots of women at their peak.

Also the lack of deep commitment isn’t a tragedy, it’s a choice and it’s not better or worse than commiting.

Women aren’t psychics, they don’t know if you want a fling (which is also a choice and not “poor intentions”) or a lifelong partner. And quantity doesn’t reduce quality, so we might as well choose both.

Carson D
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I’d say female peak is 17 to 22. Plus or minus 2.

Purple Penguin
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I don’t think porn reflects the SMV. “23-25” was arbitrary but Rollo Tomassi seem to agree on that bracket :comment image?w=490&h=240

Carson D
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Why don’t you think porn reflect the SMV? It is the clearest window into the male sexual id, is it not?

Purple Penguin
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Because MILFs also get plenty of viewers, while no one notice them in the street.

Plenty of factors come in. But I think what’s needed is to prove that porn views reflect the SMV, instead of trying to prove they don’t.

Carson D
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Plenty of (mostly young) men out there are sexually attracted to MILFs, especially ones that are hot enough to be porn stars. Why do you think porn needs to be proven as a clear window into men’s sexual attraction (and thus women’s SMV)? That’s all porn is.

Purple Penguin
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“Plenty of men are sexually attracted to MILFs in “real life””

“Plenty” is subjective. I don’t see that many.

“Why do you think porn needs to be proven as a clear window into men’s sexual attraction”

Because you don’t know if choices IRL match video choices. For now, it is just your hypothesis, which I don’t believe.

Carson D
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So your hypothesis is that men jerk off in private to things that they are actually NOT attracted to? Doesn’t sound logical to me.

And the fact that we’re even talking about this MILF phenomenon proves that plenty of guys are attracted to them if they’re popular enough to become that big of a meme.

anonymous
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18 year old girls, in general, are a gigantic pain in the ass.

Even for a guy with excellent game, the rate of flakery, attitude, girls giving the cold shoulder, and immaturity skyrockets for the 18-20 set.

They’s glued at the hip to their friends, alcohol leads to drama, and they laugh at approaches from guys they don’t know (or act all fake-embarrassed).

Once girls hit 21 and start looking at the end of college, having to work and pay rent, they finally start to mature and are more easygoing with older guys.

Ternarydaemon
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Some have tha attitude well up to 27 or even more.

Carson D
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So you don’t find 18 year olds sexually attractive because they are “pains in the ass”? Sounds like sour grape talk to me.

duirwood
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Are you finding a quality difference between your pulls from day game and night game? If so, which seems to be better, and do you think it a local phenomenon, or wider spread?

Roosh_V
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All game is local. Some cities night gives more, some cities it’s day.

But in Western cities, the trend does seem to indicate that day game is more fruitful.

G Ron
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In my experience- I like some Nlp techniques and would like to see more specific linguistic tools detailed and used here on the blog.

I take pleasure in using psychological skills to reach a deeper level of a woman’s mind Han just mere shallow banter about her car, her friends, pop trivia, ad nauseum.

Things like-
If you could really escape
And relax and go anywhere where time and money were no object and you could experience what you truly desire what would that be like?

Ross Jeffries incredible connection pattern.

Asking her what the greatest challenges are about her work/career/academic pursuits and if those will ever be easy for her.

Finding out her absolute favorite book movie album because those things reveal far more about a person than the surface seems.

A whe
List of techniques like this you have used to really get real and know people on a deeper level would be meaningful for me because I’m ways looking to find new ways to get past the boring norms and conventions of everyday life and our nauseating and impoverished (on so many levels) post modern American culture.

anonymous
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Roosh generally isn’t into that sort of stuff. You’ll have to find discussion elsewhere about it.

greenlander
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greenlander
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I was always amazed reading your story about staying in clubs and running around late at night until 4 a.m. I can’t do that stuff anymore: it just makes me miserable the whole day. I want to leave the club/bar at 1 a.m. and get some sleep. There is always more pussy to chase the next day after you’ve got a decent night’s sleep.

random
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I will say its easier to do both if you have an overall guiding thought to both, a thesis if you will.

Day thesis:
I’m just a cool guy who wants to converse and o wait all of the sudden you’re interested… I’ll get your number

Night thesis:
I’m taking this chick home tonight .. game over.
I’ll settle for a number if I have to.

If you run everything you’re about to do through one of these filters you’ll skip a lot of those mistakes.

anonymous
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Well said. Gotta keep consistent with the mindset.

Alcohol helps for creating the momentum at night.

Ternarydaemon
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I am 29. As an emplyee at a large company, I have hourly routines which can’t be broken. Day game is out mon-fri, and night game is crazy/unsustainable since I am not a noctamble and would return destroyed tue/fri. I have almost fisnished your Day Bang book, and as I become 30 during the next few months, one of my purposes is to dedicate at least 4 solid hours of day gaming per weekend, perhaps 8 sometimes (besides being able to bench press 100 of my weight).

It will be a gruesome experience, but it must be done. I make no fantasies. I will be content with 8-12 bangs per year. I am at 3 this year, will try for 5 but perhaps will manage 4.

By now, all of my social group from from college has vanished. Most females married or became fat feminists. Most males work, live their life, are into LTR or are betas going into marriage. I think most will be divorced before 34.

Having just recently shallowed the red pill, I am prepared to ented my 30s in the right track, to game women the way I couldn’t during my 20s. Day game will be paramount, and quite honestly, I have no other choices to meet new women other than solo day game. Evetually, I may try an ocassional solo night game (once per month).

anonymous
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Don’t limit yourself.

Day game on weekdays during your lunch break, or take a “cigarette break” at 10 am or 2 pm. Run some game at the fast-food place all the office drones go to during lunch, or at the nearby Starbucks during your mid-morning/afternoon break.

At 6 pm Monday or Wednesday or Sunday, stop by the local Whole Foods/Trader Joe’s and run some game (I think Roosh describes it… stand near the fish and ask a girl what vegetable goes with it).

Weekend night – find a local business networking group, interest group, ethnic affinity group, etc. They usually host mid-week events.

Weekend game – Saturday early afternoon bookstore, Saturday late afternoon gym, Saturday evening local cultural event, Sunday morning brunch/mimosas spot, Sunday afternoon meetup interest group.

Nick
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Agreed, the ideal is to approach women as you go about your regular routine (walking to work, breaks, lunch, going home, grocery shopping, taking a walk, etc.) Don’t limit yourself to indirect game either.

Odin's Ravens
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Maybe its just sour grapes because my night game is weak and my day game is excellent, but I won’t care when my club days are over much.

Truthbucket
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Daryush is growing old. He was once young and entertaining; not anymore.

Switch
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Switch
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He’s 34, hardly old. It’s just that every person has their night ‘limit’. Notice most of Roosh’s outrageous and interesting stories are about times that happened a while ago. Like he says, he’s not willing to stay out past 4AM in efforts to get laid anymore. I wouldn’t be surprised if he shacks up with the next FSU ‘dream girl’ he meets within the next 2 or 3 years. A life without having your own family at some point seems kind of miserable.

anonymous
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Truthbucket is just a regular troll around here.

Scott Worthington
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Your Day Bang book has been my bible ever since I brought it, and frankly, I have no idea where I dropped your (Night) Bang book cuz I have not looked at it in over 2 years. Its just not me! I’m an bookworm introvert, I approach girls in bookstores, cafes, parks, outdoor festivals and political protests (yup, you heard me!) Day Bang is what I have been waiting for my whole life. Night Bang is for extroverted adrenaline junkies, which is fine, to each his own!

anonymous
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Don’t discount the ideas from Bang even if you only do Day Bang day game.

The ideas from “Night” Bang are very useful on the dates you have to do with your Day Bang girls.

Example — Bang’s Strawberry Field-survey is a sure-fire hit on girls you picked up in day game. Also, mix in some Routine Manuals stuff for great hooks that will keep the girl interested.

Remember, just because you found the girl during day game does not mean you can be boring or not have good material at night, if you want to sleep with her (even after 3+ dates).

Scott Worthington
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Good points. Touche.

shotgun
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shotgun
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I am 30 but still addicted to night game. Getting drunk, going solo to a club and approaching girls is like a therapy for me. On the other hand, I feel like I’ll have to move to day game or online game soon… Pursuing night game is hazardous to both your health and your pocket in the long term.,,

jakey
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In some cities there’s just not so much choice. My current stop for a few months, almost no hot chicks out during the day. It would take so much time of just being in places, adding up the odds of running into one single cute thing.

At night, suddenly they’re all out. The tall, young, thin, hot things. Night game is much more taxing, and the overall ROI lower than day game … if you stay in one place for more than a couple of months. But, it’s really the place that calls the shots.

anonymous
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not so quick.

even the hot girls have to work or go to school. Even they have to buy food at grocery stores or restaurants. Even they have to go to the gym or yoga to stay toned.

Keep looking and you’ll find them out.

Tony D
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Tony D
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When I decided to write a pickup book I went with daygame. At my age, even though I still like running around clubs from time to time, I’m burnt on the loud music and bitch shields. Daygame is a good time. Another thing I enjoy is pub and lounge game. That’s not so bad.

Frank
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Frank
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You are going to absolutely love this… “Carrot Dating: Bribe your way to a date!”: http://www.carrotdating.com/

anonymous
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anonymous
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even more pussy on the pedestal. 🙁

Byron
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Roosh,
I propose “seasonal game.” You can think of it like a deload period when weight-lifting. A week or two of break-neck night game followed by three weeks of recooperative day game. Maybe add a few days of aimless elderly chat as cardio in-between.
Creatine and BCAAs optional.

Byron

G Ron
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It’s funny you put it that way-
Sometimes for cardio I walk all around several college campuses and malls and downtown areas for cardio and game. I lift and do bodyweight drills for strength. but pua while walking in anplace with a lot of Girls-It’s a win/win.

Tom Torero
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Merge the two with a bit of late night street game (Gutter Game) where you don’t take your phone out with you to force you to pull the trigger.

For the ultimate thrill, get into street-to-fucks in the middle of the day, escalating on girls in coffee shop toilets, parks and taking them back to yours. Nothing beats the rush of a fast daygame SDL pull at lunchtime.

The image of daygame being pedestrian and conversational doesn’t have to be true.

anonymous
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Roosh is not into that sort of day game (“street-to-fucks”). That’s more Krauser’s style.

I think Roosh would rather wait out the girl for 2-3 dates, then blow it by setting off the girl’s anti-slut alarms while she’s sober daytime.

Me
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Me
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How do you get rid of them in the morning? or after a fling?? any tips? no pua ever talks about this as this is the hardest part of the game!!!

anonymous
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That’s not true, a lot of pickup guys have discussed how to get rid of the girl.

They usually say — a) try to bang at her place, so you can leave when you’re done at 3 am. b) if it’s at your place, tell her you have something to do early the next morning. If she still stays, set an early alarm (6:30 am). If she still stays after seeing the alarm set, then just get up at 6:30, start getting ready, and apologize for kicking her out.

Dennis
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I still don’t understand the mentality that there has to be some difficulty involved in order to get satisfaction from banging a girl, but I think the dating landscape in America has changed in the past 4-5 years. These days women get validation from social media (e.g., Facebook) so they don’t have to go out to meet guys. If you’ve got 20 guys on Facebook trying to fuck you, anything else is just icing on the cake.

At some point night game has to be pared back. Fuck spending money on alcohol and cover charges just to get at some swollen-headed bitches. With day game there’s minimal bullshit and facades and you’re seeing the woman in her natural habitat as opposed to all dolled up and trying to emulate whatever female celebrity. In my opinion, at night venues there’s too much working against the guy (loud music, competition, logistics, her ego, her friends) and your agenda is transparent to these women.

Michael Drumel
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Tom Torrero is posting and noone cares ? Tom, I have followed your work and I feel there have been 2 milestones in your career :

1.When you admitted that your rate of success was extremely low. That’s ok. I feel however that you ‘ve had much more success in Russia. Am I right on this ? It is important !

2.When you admitted that you and your instructors have very little success with British women, and that you

Have you been able to piece the puzzle together in order to come up with the very important answer to the question ON WHICH WOMEN DOES GAME WORK ?

Tom Torero
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Neither milestone you quote is true I’m afraid Daniel. My book “Daygame” lists my successes and data. Russia is much harder than countries like the USA, the UK, western Europe or Asia. I’ve had many English girlfriends, as have the daygame.com team, and don’t find success rates with them different. Really hot English girls are just harder to find.

Michael Drumel
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–Tom, first off, I ‘m Michael, not Daniel. Now, lets move on to the juicy stuff …

–About my claim that you were one of the very few honest dating coaches :
1.There is a guy who claims that you had posted on some forum about how you ‘ve had very low fuck close rates, then immediately changed the post into . Of this one I have no personal knowledge
2.I have watched you on video saying pretty much that “I don’t know why, but we don’t seem to be having much success with British women”

You see Tom, these things are what most people would consider NORMAL. There is no shame in admitting that pickup is HARD and results are scarce.

—–I am ONLY adressing the matter of your blunt honesty because I feel that the time has come when we get to talk about how much we DISLIKE that results are NOT consistent and how frustratiing it is that we don’t have a warm body in bed like almost every night, and what short of PARADIGM SHIFT we need to make in order to rectify this.

–Thing is Tom, I ‘ve studied and practiced game a lot. I ‘ve been around guys who fuck a lot and CONSISTENTLY ( how many guys out there can claim that ? ). And I finally have all the answers as to how Game should be played out.
–And I feel the need to talk about it. Anyone ? ? ? … And I am adressing this question initially to you, because when I watched that video of yours where you Gutter Gamed that OBVIOUSLY below average and “socially challenged” Norwegian girl, it all just clicked man ! Everything clicked !!

Tom Torero
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It clicked that you’re a retard. Now go and politely fuck yourself. Best wishes.

Michael Drumel
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—Tom, did you click the like button on your own comment ? Talk about being retarded …
—I will be brutally honest with you.
The REAL reason you are upset is NOT because I have just exposed YOU and YOUR ENTIRE CREW as delusional and your BUSINESS as fraudulent.
The REAL reason you are upset is because THE TRUTH i uttered was one you were not ready to listen to.
Your EGO has been so badlty traumatized by the realisation that YOUR LOVE LIFE IS SHIT and you have NO FUCKING CLUE as to what to do to change it ( THIS is actually the worst part ), that you simply got furious..
—HOWEVER, lets go beyond that. I am seriously interested in a conversation on FACTUAL pickup. I am seriously interested in the FACTUAL OPTIMISATION of Game. This is why even though I continue to pickup, I have taken ACTIVE steps to create a bunch of social circles.
—WHAT STEPS are YOU taking ?
—Best wishes for recovery from PICKUPITIS ( it is the EQUIVALENT of Oneitis. In this case you think that ONLY pickup is the answer, when in reality it is only part of the equation )

Luis
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You’re a joke mate lol. Angry and jealous methinks. Torrero’s a legend; 150 plus lays, a book, loads of products, travels the world, winged with Mystery, inspires 1000s, amazing company, who are you and what have you done. Jack shit lol

Tony_Flame
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Hi Michael,

thank you very much! I think it is a great idea to stay honest and work together. With a common spirit.
We need to share our experiences and mistakes, so that we solve the whole puzzle. If it’s not consistent and doesn’t work on western feminized women then we didn’t achieve the end goal. We had allready paradigm shifts in the past and there is still a lot to discover I think.

I would really appreciate if you contact me at [email protected]

I have studied also a lot of game theory and worked with PUA coaches from across the globe. We could share same insights and opinions.

Michael Drumel
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and one more thing …

It is my opinion that “staying up until the break of dawn game” is the worst type of Game out there. It takes a toll on your health and your life.

There is of course one exception when you should pursue this, but it’s not in the context of the Game frequently presented here.

All one needs to take away from “staying up until the break of dawn game” is that when you meet a woman and you ask her about it, and she ‘s been doing it, or still does it, then you know for sure that she’s trash ! Make sure you ‘re not a piece of trash as well …

I have finally pieced the puzzle together. I now know what I have to do. I thank you all for putting your lives into this and bringing forth all this information. I finally can say that I am no longer feel the need to find something. I finally KNOW. Thank you

Giovonny
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I knew this day was coming..

Welcome to Day Game!!!

Its is an entirely new Rabbit Hole. It is deeper you can imagine. It can be mind blowing in the same way that night game can be mind blowing. You will experience things that make you question the nature of “reality”. You will experience things that make question your beliefs about human psychology, how civilization evolved and the modern condition.

Everything that you have learned about night game you will relearn put in a different light- sunlight. You will learn new things that night game couldn’t teach you.

I know you are a little nervous about this transition but don’t be. It is just a fun, just as rewarding, and just as many men are eager to learn about it. Plus, its a lot more restful and easier on the body.

Embrace it. It’s a new challenge and experience.

Like Tom Terero said… They are many variations and hybrids of day/night game. Few guys ever get to these deep and counter-intuitive levels of Day Game, such as a Same Day Lay, for example. I have only begun to taste them myself. Imagine meeting a girl at 1pm and banging her by 2pm. These things can happen.

Have fun. You are in for a wild ride!

Day Game will take you to an even higher level of confidence and self belief! And, it will change the way you view the world! You will realize that we are just scratching the surface of our social potential.

And, you will feel stronger and more energetic because its so much healthier.

goundy
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Despite what people say, I honestly feel that the difference between night game and day game is the difference between night and day (no pun intended).

You can’t go all hyper and high fun energy on chicks in the day time (might work sometimes) and you can’t go all chill and relaxed at the nightclub (again, might work sometimes).

The most important commonality that binds the two is your subcommunication – still very important. Overall, they are actually two different skillets. Ability in one doesn’t translate to the other

Check out my blog for the latest articles, videos and guides on picking up. http://www.goundy.com

chris
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for me nightgame improves my daygame, approach Friday night, build momentum for Saturday day. advantages of nightclubs, many hot girls in 1 place, don’t need to talk around for 5mins-30mins to find a hottie. you can do a lot in 30mins at night, don’t need to do 4 hours, can approach 5 girls, get few numbers/makeouts. do 30mins regually you build massive confidence, especially if you incorporate street game at night too. 99%men arnt approaching on the street at night.

...
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How on Earth do you have an easier time with day game than night game? Literally all you have to do at a club is grind for a few minutes, move to make out, have fun grinding and making out with her for like 30 minutes or so, and go to yours or hers place after you’re done in the club. It certainly does not take hours to game someone during the night, you just have to go after what you want and be shameless about it.

Day game on the other hand, no matter how many numbers I get, I can’t seem to get any of them to actually commit to a date. When girls go to a club or party, they’re looking to get laid and they have a few drinks in them reducing their inhibitions. During daygame, there’s no alcohol, no expectation on their part of getting laid, and there’s a very real possibility you were interrupting her in the middle of something.