Denying Death

Most Americans have a morbid lifestyle due to their overeating and inactivity, but a large percentage of the population are health nuts who want to live a long, healthy life. I used to be that guy. I was very neurotic about what I ate, even going without meat for two periods of my life. I didn’t go so far as only eating organic foods, but I avoided processed meats and snacks with ingredients I couldn’t pronounce. I boycotted McDonald’s. I thought hot dogs were made by the devil. I moderated my drinking and did my best to avoid second-hand smoke. I dutifully exercised three times a week for 30 minute increments.

Today I’ll eat hot dogs and ham. I’ll eat McDonald’s breakfast if I happen to be up at an early hour. I’ll spend four hours in a smokey club. You want to go for a jog? Hmm, how about we grab a beer instead? I drink like a fish if I’m in the mood. I’m not careful in order to live a long life. Everything I do is to either help me accomplish my current goals or to feel good today. I eat a diet that gives me energy… today. I maintain a figure that is attractive to women… today. I lift weights to boost my testosterone levels… today. I take multi-vitamins to avoid getting colds… today. I don’t care how long I live unless today is the best day I can make it.

So I don’t understand when my peers say they want to live until they’re 100, completely rearranging their life and experimenting with supplements that give no guarantee that they will live even a day longer than compared to a more “unhealthy” lifestyle. Living today for a tomorrow that may not come is living based on fear. Accepting death, something that happens to us all, actually turns out to be a lot easier than staying on top of the latest fad diet or health news that invariably contradicts yesterday’s health news. Accepting death forces you to chase your dreams now instead of postponing. Adopting a healthy lifestyle is nothing more than a postponement lifestyle, a fancy way of procrastination.

A great article in New York Magazine perfectly shows America’s denial of death…

The traditional exits, of a sudden heart attack, of dying in one’s sleep, of unreasonably dropping dead in the street, of even a terminal illness, are now exotic ways of going. The longer you live the longer it will take to die. The better you have lived the worse you may die. The healthier you are—through careful diet, diligent exercise, and attentive medical scrutiny—the harder it is to die.

Attempts to delay death now may do nothing but increase your suffering in the end. Many will put a lot of hard work in their 20s running on a treadmill like a hamster to finish out a couple extra years in a nursing home, unable to even remember who they are due to cognitive decline. I’ll take the massive coronary instead.

This is not just a drawn-out, stoic, and heroic long good-bye. This is human carnage. Seventy percent of those older than 80 have a chronic disability, according to one study; 53 percent in this group have at least one severe disability; and 36% have moderate to severe cognitive impairments; you definitely don’t want to know what’s considered to be moderate impairment.

What a crappy deal. All that medical advancement and progress in longevity to become a shadow of your human self. This is what people are signing up for when they run their yearly marathon and practically starve themselves with a vegan diet. You can’t even smoke a cigarette these days without someone thinking you’re a complete moron.

One evening, almost three years ago, getting into the shower, she caught her lagging foot on the rail of the shower door and went down into the tub. She lay there, shivering in the tepid water until morning, when her neighbor became alarmed. There is a precept here, which no doctor quite spells out: once it has begun, it has begun; decline follows decline; incident precedes incident.

My views on death changed when I lived with my dad next to a retirement community of elderly rich people. Even though many had the best care available to them, including nubile African and Thai nurses, being over 75 is brutal. It’s not like Jack Lalane doing 100 pushups. It’s not ballroom dancing in tuxedos. The most fit, strapping young American men in their prime were now getting wheeled in before me, or walking at a pace so slow you can’t help but get agitated when stuck behind them. With most of their friends and relatives dead, it’s a lonely place to be. Their adult children, who should be the bright spot of their lives, treat them like children who must be endured. Like the author of the article, many can’t wait until they die.

Sadly, they have nothing to look forward to in life except death. Their brain is going, they aren’t mobile, and they’ve lost the ability to do their hobbies. The highlight of their day is straining to read the paper or talking to random people like me about the good old days.

… the purpose of long-term-care insurance is to help finance some of the greatest misery and suffering human beings have yet devised. […] ‘Old age,’ says one of Philip Roth’s protagonists, ‘isn’t a battle, it’s a massacre.’ I’d add, it’s a holocaust.

My dad would always tell me and my sister that he doesn’t want to be a burden on everyone if he gets old. “Don’t worry about taking care of me, just let me go.” Of course we would object, but he saw what I now realize: it’s not worth living when you can no longer take care of yourself. There is no happiness in having to depend on others for things you used to do without thought and effort. You will come to a point in your life—and I hope that it’s far off for you—where death isn’t a bad deal at all.

Often times I see some comments asking me why I’m “so negative.” Why don’t I just write about the wonderful parts of life and focus on all the good in the world? The reason is because there are negative aspects of life and the human experience that don’t go away if you close your eyes. Living life through a filter is not living life—it’s pretending. No matter how I look at it, living for today is the best thing I can do. So I don’t want to read health news. I don’t want to know what chemicals are in the meat or in the water. I don’t want to do the paleo diet. I just want to enjoy this day that I have before me.

Related Posts For You

newest oldest most voted
samseau
Guest
samseau
Offline

“Philosophy is nothing more than learning how to die.”

– Rousseau

Pete M
Guest
Pete M
Offline

As usual, well thought out and well said. On the whole Paleo thing – I found that eating grains and processed foods made feel like crap in the hours after – so I’ve cut them out of my diet.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

Notwithstanding this post, I’d bet Roosh lives a healthier life than 99% of Americans.

Bob
Guest
Bob
Offline

That quote is from Cicero I thought?

Fff
Guest
Fff
Offline

I don’t eat healthy to live longer, rather to maintain a young look.

If I can look 27-28 when I’m 35 I’ll be happy

Fff
Guest
Fff
Offline

And paleo is more about cutting foods that irritate you.

Eating bread every meal as most Americans do is hard on my body.

ColSpanker
Guest
ColSpanker
Offline

“Hope I die before I get old.”

Tree
Guest
Tree
Offline

Good stuff Roosh…end is near my friend :)but, WHO CARES???

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

Actually, it’s that way because our society is not well organized. It should be the other way around : the older you get, the happier you are.

In community oriented societies in latin america or in Africa, a lot of old people live with their children in their home. They’re involved in the community and in raising the children. They are more respected and have something to contribute to society.

The problem with us is we don’t care what grand daddy has to say, he’s “out of date”. It’s ridiculous that all these 55+ people on retirement die without sharing their knowledge. A healthy 60 years old man who’ve been through wars, losses, love, challenging careers and adventures can teach a lot of things. They could do volunteer work, they could help teenagers become mature, they could do many things but we just throw them out of society.

Francis Begbie
Guest

I sort of agree with this. On one hand, the idea of living until 80, pissing into a tube in a nursery home is a nightmare, and it would be far better to die earlier.

On the other hand, I eat extremely well and eat weights a lot, and not because I want to live longer. I want to live better. When you eat the paleo diet, clear all that shit out, you get less mood swings, you’re more confident, you look better, you’re not getting the flu and vomiting, you’re thinking clearer, more intelligent etc. It’s not about living longer, it’s about living better, otherwise I’d be hitting the fast food every night. Both of which happen to be fairly synonymous, so as long as your not that emaciated cunt jogging for three hours a day.

Francis Begbie
Guest

“lift weights a lot”

Jordan
Guest
Jordan
Offline

Very thought provoking.

ladderff
Guest
ladderff
Offline

Want to add another plug for paleo eating. A minor inconvenience buys you more life–today. Better sleep, and less need for it; more energy and a clearer head even when you are tired; no time lost to being sick; more bang for your buck at the gym; and eating mostly dead animals is bad ass anyway. Don’t want to sound like some kind of fanboy but I wager that all of the horrors of old age,including the cognitive ones, are mitigated by a life of a proper diet.

Someguy
Guest
Someguy
Offline

If there would be a “like” somwhere in here, the previous comment would have definitely got it from me.

As the Bible says: “There is nothing new under the sun”. Human brain, and needs didn’t change much from human prehistory, till today. When listening to old people i just need to put their experiences in today’s context, and most of it fits. All the poeple wanted before may have changed the shape, but is the same crap as people love today, and how people behaved before, toward each other may changed shape, but not the essence. Offcourse there is always stupid people young and old, so it’s important to differentiate.

Rick91
Guest
Rick91
Offline

Fuck paleo, but saying that if your a naturally fatty, you do what it takes.

Someguy
Guest
Someguy
Offline

“Today I’ll eat hot dogs and ham. I’ll eat McDonald’s breakfast if I happen to be up at an early hour. I’ll spend four hours in a smokey club. You want to go for a jog? Hmm, how about we grab a beer instead? I drink like a fish if I’m in the mood. I’m not careful in order to live a long life. Everything I do is to either help me accomplish my current goals or to feel good today. I eat a diet that gives me energy… today. I maintain a figure that is attractive to women… today. I lift weights to boost my testosterone levels… today. I take multi-vitamins to avoid getting colds… today. I don’t care how long I live unless today is the best day I can make it.”

We(not Americans) thought that average American has bassically been ingrained with this somewhat agressive menatlity, and that it’s the common American lifestyle, but it seems not. Is it that Americans have changed radically over 20 years, or that we just recently came to open our eyes about you?

Bill
Guest
Bill
Offline

Exercising and maintaining a healthy diet will make you feel better…today and tomorrow. And I enjoy going to the gym. if you are saying don’t become a nut about it, I agree. And the problem is that medical science has increased our lives without yet advancing to a level where it can preserve the quality. I plan on staying as healthy as I can for as long as I can without going to medical extremes. If I need to hasten my demise at some point, I’ll worry about it then.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

This doesn’t make sense. Your implicit assumption is that healthy living today means a protracted period of gradual decline in old age, while unhealthy living today means going out on a high note. This is a claim with no basis in the scientific literature. Healthy living means you a pitiable wreck in your late seventies, having enjoyed your sixties. Unhealthy living just means the decline comes quicker.

The question is: When do you want to decline? Sooner or later?

Theodora
Guest
Theodora
Offline

Paleo is ridiculous, worst 4 months of my life. And hopefully this post will also make people some realize it.

As always there’s nothing I can argue about the post. I agree with Roosh on it all, though not on the severity of the old age he’s describing. In my country people live up to 90 and they’re in pretty good shape and still having a pretty good time. One thought on this whole attitude is that it doesn’t change unless someone has kids. Right? As in you don’t want them to grow up alone without you and have your wife/husband handle it on their own (then again maybe someone wont ever have kids because of it). Or if someone is too attached to their parents and doesn’t want them to endure the loss of a child. I don’t know, just wondering.

And one last thing: what makes you happy also makes you live better and look younger (I’m not saying longer). I know people who smoke and drink every day and look 10 years younger, simply because it’s what makes them happy and they carry a happy mindset because of it.

Richard Martin
Guest

You don’t want to do the paleo diet but you don’t need to because you visibly make *other* efforts to keep fit. Or maybe it’s not an effort for you, it just comes naturally? Well, for the rest of us, keeping fit after 30 takes some effort. As far as I can tell, it is the paleo diet that maximizes the fitness-to-effort ratio. But I could be wrong…

Nonetheless your main point is well taken, which is that we do the paleo diet to keep fit today rather than to increase our life expectancy from 88 to 89 years old.

Some people I know want to top themselves off at 65. Is that too young?

Kaiserfranz
Guest
Kaiserfranz
Offline

You have a point about eldert care.

I remember how my grandfather, 90+ yo, was living during his last year:
less than a shadow of the man that he was, with the same needs of a newborn and no memory of his close relatives…

But I disagree on your view about eating healthy: I do not do it for leaving longer later, but for looking better now!
Unhealthy eating habits can make all the pumping iron useless, and beer is the worst enemy of a six pack…

Grace
Guest
Grace
Offline

Anonymous at #18 is totally right: everyone ends up a crippled wreck sooner or later–why would you want sooner?

In any case, the real horror of aging is dementia. Causes are partly genetic (and thus out of your control either way), but lifestyle is also important: being fat, smoking, eating a bad diet (and thus having high cholesterol) and drinking too much all contribute. In fact, there is some evidence that changing one’s lifestyle can prevent dementia.

Avoiding ending up as a drooling bedridden vegetable via stopping smoking and binge drinking, while choosing to exercise regularly and staying mentally active seems like the smart decision.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

“What really counts isn’t the years in your life, but the life in your years.”

Newb#3
Guest
Newb#3
Offline

I agree that the goal of living longer is pointless. I highly doubt the years past 70 are really all that good anyway.

But… a lot of the measure people take that you mentioned are not about life extension. They’re about (a) optimizing current health, or “today” as you wrote, and (b) slowing down the process of aging.

It just so happens that life extension, slowing down aging, and optimizing current health and appearance have significant overlap both in what they are as goals, and how one goes about achieving them.

Eating healthy, getting enough sleep, exercising, supplementation, avoiding damaging activity, meditation and other stress reduction methods, aren’t just about extending your life, they’re about looking and feeling your best today and in the near future (into your 30s, 40s, and 50s).

All that being said, of course, you can’t optimize everything, and sometimes the best thing to do to improve the quality of your life involves doing things that are unhealthy. If you have to work your ass off and sleep little in the process of starting a business that will allow you to live well in the future, do it. If you work hard and don’t eat well while mastering a skill or hobby that provides you with intrinsic joy, it’s worth it. If you drink a lot, but you do it going out and socializing and meeting women, it’s worth a slight hit to your health.

It’s all about balancing. First find out how important health is to you. Then see what you can cut out and add to your life to improve it without taking away from other parts of your life that you value. Manage what you can, and don’t sweat what you can’t.

nathanwyatt
Guest

No man deserves his freedom or his life
Who does not daily win them anew. …

****************************************

Stirbe und werde
Die and become

Goethe’s Faust

David Led Roth
Guest
David Led Roth
Offline

I totally agree with the poster #9 – American society cannot wait to be rid of the ederly; just send them off to a plant and process them into dog food. Given how American culture is having less respect fot human life anyway it would not surprise me if at some point in our Orwelian future they establish extermination policies for seniors. And before the powers that be allowed feminist to conpletely destroy the western world, there were many essential skills and philosophies that were taught be one’s grandparents. It is true that times have changed but there always be universal things that will never change that need to be passed on to each generation as long as the human race exists.

And I also agrree Roosh that I do not want to be some old guy in a wheel chair wearing paper slippers and having nurses wipe my ass for me. Worse also is being some old walking corpse and still wanting to fuck 20 year old women. Even game has its limits, and no chick wants to fuck the undead.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

I am that person you describe in the first paragraph lol. Those chemicals will effect your offspring so why eat them?

If i need energy there’s always a healthy alternative.

Prep food at night and cook in the morning to avoid Mcdonalds.

These just sound like justifications for poor decisions

LS
Guest
LS
Offline

Memento mori.

:idea2:

choichoi
Guest
choichoi
Offline

my 21 yo cousin who i had only hung with three weeks ago was shot and killed walking home from his shitty food service job by some punks who wanted to rob him and some other boy.
He wasn’t going out without a fight. I watched him buried 2 days ago, and man that was one of the most emotionally painful things I have ever watched in my life. I am 26 now and I realize now, more than ever how uncertain living is now. Shit just got real

SJ
Guest
SJ
Offline

Roosh,

Excellent post one of your best yet. I used to be 8% bodyfat and worked out 2-3 hours 7 days a week. It was a pain. Now I lift few days a week and walk several hours a week and eat more or less what I want within reason. I still eat mostly a paleo/low carb diet because it makes me feel great but I will eat chips or pizza once in a while. I am not as lean now but have a lot more muscle and less stressed out at 41. Being a happy single bachelor with no nagging bitch wife or kids makes things better as well since I can do whatever I want whenever I want. No need to consult some bitch if I want that giant flatscreen tv or new car or want to take a trip to South America. If I have the time and money, I do it!

Jay
Guest
Jay
Offline

Yea dude when you live overseas and must subsist on whatever the local cuisine is, sometimes there’s noting more orgasmic than an occasional McDonald’s breakfast meal. At times it’s even comparable to shooting a creampie up a local PYT.

thecaptainpower
Guest

Why sugar coat it Roosh? Most people, especially Americans, are in HORRIBLE shape. My parents for example had very good careers, they recently retired and are in horrible shape. They are both on daily blood pressure and cholesterol medication. Its my day off and I already went to the gym at 11am, now gng running at coney island.

http://thecaptainpower.blogspot.com/2012/09/i-have-bigger-penis-than-prince-harry.html

Omega Man
Guest
Omega Man
Offline

It depends on luck and genetics. My mom died a pretty horrible death of colon cancer in her mid-50’s. My dad is in his early 80’s and still in pretty good shape. I think you need to have some care in what you eat, but there’s no point in being obsessive about it.

The health/nutrition obsession in the US is a matter of Puritan morality, not real interest in health or quality of life.

Lucky White Male
Guest
Lucky White Male
Offline

The tragedy of Roosh is that he has gotten sucked in.

Sucked into what? The nihilism that the “chosen” Manhattan media elites want us to get sucked into.

Why do our magazines and media and Hollywood screenplays always tout the same line?

Why do they tout shibboleths such as: “Who wants to live forever? Live for today! Live for yourself! Who needs kids! ”

Why, when this same crowd does not do this themselves?

This Manhattan and Hollywood media elite DOES NOT think life is pointless, that you should live for today, that children are a pain in the ass, that religion is a joke.

The people who are producing the commentary in the media are procreating, going to the temple on Saturday, making big money, living a materialistic life. They want to live long and prosper – and they want their children to live long and prosper.

They know the truth.

The truth is that the good life is the “The Roman Way” (Edith Hamilton) – a life of achievement, of material things, of GENERATIVE creation, of procreation, of children.

The media elites have Generation Y believing in Nihilism – because they want to destroy the masses. And the easiest way to destroy an enemy is to get that enemy to hang themselves first.

Roosh is being derivative here – a talented and interesting writer who is being used.

He is mimicking a trite line when he needs to start asking questions because he is capable of so much more.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Roman-Way-Edith-Hamilton/dp/0393310787

[Roosh: Living in the present moment comes from what I’ve read of Buddhism, not CNN/Hollywood.]

Philosopher
Guest
Philosopher
Offline

@ #1

Rousseau took that quote from Socrates.

dr. shitfinger
Guest
dr. shitfinger
Offline

hard facts suck. after you die folks will forget that there was a roosh. nobody cares. forgotten

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

“Living in the present moment comes from what I’ve read of Buddhism”

Do you know Eckhart Tolle? Maybe interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j42cTkiGdXY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

Hugh Hefner is 86.

Dick Cheny is 71.

There is a difference between being an obsessive compulsive health nut and taking care of yourself. Hugh Hefner did, Dick Cheny didn’t.

Taking care of yourself now means you’ll feel better now. The people that don’t, if you watch closely, you can see are already in misery. Don’t be fooled by the narcotic and alcohol use hiding it.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

Roosh, while I think you’re right in saying that “living today for a tomorrow that may not come is living based on fear,” I believe your overall point of accepting death is clouded by a feeling of instant gratification owing to your constant refrain of “…today.” I’m young, (early 20s) and I’m learning to accept death, but that doesn’t mean I should actively lead a fleetingly satisfying lifestyle simply because I know I will die someday, right?

MaMu1977
Guest
MaMu1977
Offline

I’m not afraid of getting old. I have an uncle, 91 years old, who “complains” about his “old man period”: 3-5 days out of the month, his dick works like its still 19. He finds himself a younger woman and does what he has to do. Average age of those women, you may ask? 35. He’s been busted with 19-year old girls a few times.

The best part? *All* of my older relatives are the same way. Assuming that I live long enough and use condoms, I could be another horny old goat hanging out at the strip club with a bunch of singles and a sly smile. Or I could find a nice island girl who knows what side of her bread is buttered to make my breakfast and make jokes about how “It never ends, does it?”, when she sees me getting out of the shower. Any man can be “alpha” at 25, but it takes a real man to hit 75 while having a functional prick and some muscle definition.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

Roosh, what’s your opinion on steroid use? Immediate gains today, potential health problems in the future.

[Roosh: I won’t touch it, though past my 40s I may look into testosterone supplementation if weight lifting doesn’t get my levels up to where I want.]

Turner
Guest
Turner
Offline

Pretty true.

My dad tells me this all the time. When the time comes when I cant have sex, play golf or do things I live – you cease to live and just start to exist. At that time – take me on a long walk off a short pier.

My grandpa died last week. He hasnt known what he was doing the last 5 years from dementia. My grandmother laughed and giggled through the ceremony because she too, doesnt know what is going on. To me, this is not living at all.

Not an excuse not work out and be healthy, but agree that you should know why you are doing it – ie for the now – long term, is too much of a crap shoot.

Turner

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
Offline

smile

k
Guest
k
Offline

Roosh, you may be wrong.

the fact is the technology is rapidly advancing. It is very likely that in the next 30 years, there will readily available technology to “solve” aging and related disease/symptoms, tech to “reverse” aging and tech to extend life and the enjoyment of it.

At, that point the only people will have the benefit of those technologies are:
1. Those who are healthy enough to benefit from them 9 and not too broken down and damaged from a lifetime of bad eating/habits, ….and….

2. Those rich enough to afford them.

Imagine being 80 but with the body and mental capacity of a 50 year old ???? – not so bad huh…

we it will most likely happen in the next 20-30 years. (if not already and being hiodden/restricted from the rest of us – notice how the obscenely rich: Rockefeller, Kissinger, Buffet, Soros, Hefner, Berlusconi….keep on ticking …. and banging HBs !!!).

HCE
Guest
HCE
Offline

The comments about game and how it works on that Spearhead post about “Why PUA lifestyle will never be common” are sheer idiocy (even if the post itself is true). I suppose that’s one of the reasons why you don’t like the MRAs and their incessant whining.

Danish Broski
Guest
Danish Broski
Offline

My grandfather lived to 86 years old and remained as sharp as ever. Had hundreds of people come to his 75 year birthday. Talked at least a few times a week with his children and grandchildren and was mobile until last – although he did take a looong time to get anywhere! When he died of a hospital infection he was fighting to the last and refusing to give up. Just saying that old age doesn’t have to be like you describe. I believe it can be very fullfilling and I’m ashamed to see how most people treat elders. How incredibly stupid to not learn from those who’ve lived a whole life of experiences.

I’ve struggled a lot with death after losing my mother at age 28. It really scared the crap out of me. That void of losing someone you love, it never goes away. I have major problems accepting death, but the truth is that as much as I’ve tried to avoid doing dangerous things or even stressing about disease and stuff, then living is the only thing you can do until you die. I agree with you and I procastenating in an attempt to cheat death is futile.

Jojo
Guest
Jojo
Offline

You want to live long enough for the Singularity. Then you can live FOREVER!

Tex
Guest
Tex
Offline

Live like Charlie Harper!

although I’d get rid of his brother.

Big Bopper
Guest
Big Bopper
Offline

The key here is simple: moderation.

Yes it does not makes sense to be anally retentive about everything you eat and drink etc. Jack Lalane was a legend and a healthy man, but most men who take super care of themselves do not turn into superman in their golden years.

Having said that also do not over indulge too much in the decadence. Don’t smoke too much, don’t do too much drugs (if at all) and don’t take any risks that one would see done on any of the Jackass movies or TV shows. Those geniuses, though entertaining, were born without a brain.

Moderation in exercise as well. Professional athletes have major health problems because they pushed themselves too much.

My friend’s Mom would drink waay to much spring water to the point where her sodium levels dropped and had to be rush to the hospital. And spring water has got to be one of the healthiest things any human could consume.

Again: moderation

And I agree I would prefer to go quickly and quietly, not slowly rot like a compost. But we cannot tell Nature to send us off the way we want to. This means perhaps depending on your health later in life you have to make that grave decision to call it quits. George Eastman (Founder of Eastman Kodak) grew increasingly depressed due to his own pain, reduced ability to function, and also since he witnessed his mothers suffering from pain. On March 14, 1932, Eastman died by suicide with a single gunshot to the heart, leaving a note which read, “To my friends: my work is done. Why wait?”

gonzo
Guest
gonzo
Offline

Just like you maintained in your previous article/video “Do muscles matter much?” that the female obsession with guys with large muscular frames remains mostly a byproduct of American culture yet is different outside of the anglo countries, the same can be said about the elderly and mental decline you pointed out in that Article. I’m british born but my Parents originate from India.

My country of blood is shitty in innumerable ways but what they do have is a fantastic set-up for people in their ‘declining years’ (if you can call it that). Grandparents, greatgrandparents, veterans of past ridiculous forgotten wars, stoic manly men are surrounded by their family, children day in, day out they experience some kind of real community based spirit, they are recognised in the patriarchy as head of the household, held in esteem by the local community and spend their days with good friends and family, a good cup of tea, and generally (fairly independently of poverty level) a very good sense of wellbeing as they approach death.

I suspect that the latin american (possibly also italian) countries you’ve been too that haven’t been too hampered by euro-anglo culture see this kind of thing as well.

Carpe diem and all that live for today behaviour and action is fantastic, i fully support it, and it’s why i joined your forum. But when i get to old age, i’ll return to my roots, that patriarchy, of family and old long wise friends and take my place as head of the family. Because, based on my fathers fathers, and their brothers and compatriots. It’s a fucking awesome way to kick the bucket.