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A.W.E.S.O.M.-O
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Interesting brief roosh. I’m 28 and already getting to this point. My gane is pretty strong and medium quality women that I don’t connect with are very hesitant to hook up with me because they don’t know if I like them. The truth is I really don’t all that much. Time to step up to the plate and only allow quality women that I connect with into my life.

Fabio Carnicatti
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Interesting. Are you entertaining thoughts of getting married?

Yeah, really!
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Great post. It’s very accurate IMO on that state of decline of desire. Being 50 now I know exactly what you’re talking about Roosh. I’m old both in terms of my age and in terms of time in the game. I’ve had to leave night game behind because the type of interactions you have are typically the shallow, low value connections that only occasionally lead to sex. Being a man who values my time above all else, I can’t justify spending more than about an hour with any girl before escalating things to some sexual release or breaking away and moving on.

But, with my experience of a former long-term marriage and maturity, I’ think i”m more adept to building emotional connections with girls quickly, which is a great benefit should I want more than the sterile ONS. The downside is it can be harder to dump a girl because of the strong emotional connections I build.

I think the default state of a man’s mind and heart is to desire the emotional connection with any woman he has sex with. However in our youth, our hormones and needs to release our seed override out senses and we bang that which we can bang. And, with society removing the traditional pathways to finding a worthy woman who we want to invest in emotionally, we really have little choice but to have emotionally detached sex.

I’m glad Roosh that you’re posting your insights on the mature man’s game and how things do change over time. Despite these changes, I will encourage everyone that there are still women out there who are you can connect with and will connect with you into middle age and beyond. Sex with women like this is much better than the quick pick ONS of even hotter, younger girls we typically seek at night.

Tom Arrow
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Is something wrong with me if I can absolutely understand you at age 26?

Grody
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Uh no… Cause I’m still 25

Tom Arrow
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But you have a zombie-apocalypse avatar, so you do not count.

Marcus
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Probably not, because i’m 19 and I completely understand him, well guess i have a baby’s brain and a old man heart after all.. Although my sex drive is high which is why my tolerance still a little higher but i guess in something about 5-10 years i’ll not be able to spend more than a couple ours with girls i don’t like just to get laid.

practicalh
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Not at all. Sex without being cared for and caring is half the sex at best.

Tom Arrow
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I agree. Theoretically at least; I am not a great womanizer.

The link in your Disqus profile is spelled with only one p. May want to correct that.

practicalh
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Thank you for pointing this out. I fixed it.

rationalize
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It all depends on where you’re coming from.

Come out of an LTR at any age, and suddenly you want to bang *everything* like a wild rabbit.

Or

Have a couple of regular FWBs around .. and the effort to run night game just to bang *more to the same* seems strenuous and unnecessary.

66Scorpio
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I only found the manosphere in Janary of this year. At some points over the last several years I thought about trying to learn pickup artistry, but I was mostly satisfied with my sex life. Having read stuff by Roosh, RDS, Mystery, and a bunch of others my conclusion is that it ain’t fucking worth it.
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Seriously, think about it. Setting aside the time required to read about and absorb the concepts of game, you have to dedicate one or two hours working it every fucking day of your life for a good five years or more. To what end? Bang sluts?

rationalize
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It’s cheaper than participating in the divorce-industrial-complex.

66Scorpio
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A bit of a false dichotomy.

rationalize
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yes I agree. I apologise.

rationalize
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Could you run me through the details please. I’m unsure i understand.

66Scorpio
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A false dichotomy is when you are presented with two choices and only two choices but in reality you have at least a third option and perhaps many more.
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In our discussion the two (two real but falsely dichotomous) positions where that you :
1) bang sluts or
2) wife up get divorced raped.
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To work backwards: keep in mind that the divorce rate is 50% – for every guy who gets divorced, there is a guy who does not. The majority of divorces are actually amicable: in my (formerly) professional opinion as a divorce lawyer a few years ago, that can still mess up the kids but beyond that, there is no “divorce rape”. Half the guys that go down that road succeed.
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Whatever other bullshit we get here, The Unicorn Hunt is On. .
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But to digress, the concepts of poyamoury or even polygamy add a few other options.

rationalize
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“the majority of divorces are amicable”

hm. perhaps my sample is biased.

i am yet to meet a man who pays child support gladly.

66Scorpio
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It’s a function of the bitch factor regarding the cunt who cashes the cheques. If mom is willing to work hard, meet her own financial responsibilities, and not jerk the guy around about access or – in the initial stages – about oint custody, a father is generally happy to slip her a reasonable amount for day-to-day expenses if he is raking it in as an engineer and she can’t find better work than as a waitress..
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But just like plane crashes and lightning strikes, it is the horror stories that capture the imagination of people.
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My sample size is about 50 from direct experience and another 100 to 200 through my colleagues.
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“Lawyers” and “gladly” are not two words that usually go together, but that is the system that we have created, and yet most people deal with it well.

rationalize
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Buddy, you’re seeing a biased sample.

The guys who go to lawyers are the lucky few.

More typically he cannot afford legal advice. The man pays upfront. While she can afford legal advice, $0 upfront, lawyer paid out of the settlement.

Often with the dear family court ordering that he pays her legal fees on top.

He pays her costs of taking his wealth.

66Scorpio
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I got most of my clients through the Lawyer Referral Service.

http://www.cbabc.org/For-the-Public/Lawyer-Referral-Service
Back in my day it was ten bucks but, given that inflation strikes everywhere, it is now $25 for a half-hour consult. And it never goes only 30 minutes. Still, twenty five bucks doesn’t stop a guy who is about to be divorce raped from seeking out his options.
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Where there was equity in the house, it didn’t matter if it was the wife or hubby: I could represent them and know that my fees would be paid at the end. This was particularly the case where the guy found himself “evicted” and even when the bitch wanted to keep the house, the kids, and live-in nanny, and such my guy would get a payout.
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In Canada, the way it generally works is that each person pays their own legal fees but in the event of a dispute the winner will get reimbursed about 1/3 as a matter of “costs”. Rarely, in a slam dunk where the other person had no merit you could get all of you legal bills paid, and in other cases where you were arguing about ten different things and 5 went one way and 5 went the other then there would be no order as to costs.
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I don’t know how much has changed since I left the game back in 2009 and I can’t speak with much authority about the situation outside of British Columbia or Canada. However, things are not as bad as many of the horror stories that you might read but on the other hand they are far worse than your naïve man who has never rubbed up against the legal system might think.

rationalize
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$440 per hour in Sydney

High suicide rate on the mans side

$100,000 typical total costs per party

Two years duration

Child access is additional. Treated as a separate matter.

66Scorpio
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Downtown lawyers rip you off because they have to pay more rent for their office.
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I billed out at $150 an hour as a junior lawyer and my boss – with 40 years experience – was a tad over twice that as we were in the suburbs of Vancouver.
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Yep: studies I have read say that divorce is the primary factor in male suicide rates.
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I have not looked at studies recently but I think the costs were something like $30,000 if you take it to trial (and those are a minority) but it is probably more like $50k.
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The costs are directly related to how unreasonable one or both parties want to be.
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Child access can be a never-ending story. The real fight is where mom figures she has to move half way around the world to be with a parent or new job or new boyfriend/husband.

Sauron666
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Hundred percent agree with this. When I was divorced 7 years ago, I went after pussy like it was going out of style. Just notches in the bedpost, one after the other. Record was three in one day, no condoms no nothing.

Now I have two FWBs, each of whom would be delighted to have the relationship morph over into an LTR. Even though we don’t see one another all that often, we are in constant contact, and it absolutely quenches my thirst from having to chase other skirt. Plus, they are both extremely lean and petite with very long black hair, which is how I personally like them. In my life I very, very rarely rarely run into that. No sense chasing after a girl who’s not more attractive and/or cool than what you already have.

YosarriansRight
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IMHO, the complete collapse of quality women is the driving force behind what Roosh is preaching.

My interest goes down because I view the hoards of self appointed princesses to be utterly useless except as disposable organic orgasm toys, which many of them aren’t even good at.

Acehole
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The collapse of quality women is obvious, but it coincides with the collapse of quality men as well. Have you seen the young men out there these days? Lots of weaklings. Where is the draft when you need it?

66Scorpio
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You are right and that is part of the ongoing project here at ROK. Fuck the draft, I spent a decade in the military by choice.
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I don’t know how things work in the US but if there are any young Canadian guys reading this thread who think that their life sucks, then march your ass to the nearest armory and sign on with the Reserves. The experience will build your body and build your confidence. If you are a student, it certainly beats the fuck out of flipping burgers as a summer job. Depending on your MOC you will, by the age of 21, be put in charge of 10 to 30 subordinates and millions of dollars of equipment and resources. Nobody in the civilian world will give you that sort of opportunity to prove yourself.

66Scorpio
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I live in China and shudder at the thought of my visa expiring, having to return to Canada, get a “real” job and then re-enter the dating market.

Deebos
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I think I am trending away from this mindset although I don’t completely disagree with it. For reference my notch count this year is 18 out of 27 approaches, the youngest being 22. All approaches target the 8+ women. 4 would be notches were lost because I told them my intention was a ONS only so they declined, 2 were outright rejections and 3 were lost in endless texting and calls. 4 of the notches were two separate threesomes (one set in town for a modeling gig, both mid 20’s).
I am also early 40’s and for the last year or so I have reached a midpoint where I am turning girls down, roughly 2-3 a month who approach me. These women though are 6’s or less and range from mid 20’s to mid 40’s. I actually had an incident this year where three women almost got into a fight with each other because I was talking with all of them and they were arguing over who should I get although each individually had initiated the conversation. I literally had to separate them. My mind now is desperately trying to figure out how to get the 8’s and better to approach me which has happened once this year. I replay what I did that night but I simply have to chalk it up to being in the zone because nothing stands out.
My point with this jibber jabber is that game absolutely continues as long as a man chooses it to do so. I think that game, as practiced on most manosphere blogs, has been entirely muddled with the MRA, anti-feminist, anti-American woman, pro-masculinity types which is entirely accurate (and I tend to largely agree with) however, I think it distracts from actual gaming.

Lord Noramus
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At least, Roosh was getting laid during his twenties.

When I was in my twenties, I was lucky if I was able to get a girl to talk to me. I was too shy, to awkward, and too fucking horny and would blow it with girls the moment that I would open my mouth.

There were no resources back then to help you learn game, so this time in my life sucked.

Things have changed dramatically for me after learning game (I’m 40). I can say that I at least get one lay a week, sometimes from girls that I’m not too attracted to, but at at least I’m having sex.

BTW, I look like a bald Gimli from lord of the rings. What has helped me the most is to demonstrate higher value to a girl.

Anyways, to the young men out there (18-30) who are shy, afraid of rejection, low self esteem etc, you’re going to have to bite the bullet and learn how to game now that you’re young.

read more at http://www.redpillblog.com/

just a human
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I compeletely understand what are You saying in this video. But you know what? Some voice inside of me says that seeking emotional connection with female is REMAIN OF BLUE PILL ! It is like searching for LOVE. Yes-we all have this litle nice guy inside of us,whoo needs “love”. That is the straight way to dependancy,jelousy,oenitis… Today is friday. I am going out. All i want is to fuck. I trust my inner voice. Stronger can’t be emotionally dependent of weaker-it is against nature ..I go to prepare myself for this night…

splooge
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11965637/What-time-is-the-Rugby-World-Cup-final-between-New-Zealand-and-Australia-who-will-win-and-what-TV-channel-is-it-on.html

unrelated but look at the referee they are putting in to ref the rugby finals. A suicidal gay man. they list it like its some qualification.

GRock
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There’s a direct relation to wanting the opposite of what you’ve done almost habitually. Any time I’ve gotten out of an LTR, within weeks I want to bang a ton of girls meaninglessly. Any time I’ve banged through a nice stable or sluts, I start to want something more steady with meaning.

But surely with age, comes the lack of tolerance. That hit me in my mid-30s as well. Men are subconsciously logically aware. Women are not. Men realize that time is the most valuable finite resource. Thus the more of it you waste with age, the greater time-inflation-adjusted the cost of your time. It’s only nature speaking through Roosh in this one. Totally normal, logical, pragmatic, and reasonable.

Sauron666
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Perfectly stated.

JimD
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The problem lies with treating them as nothing but “moist holes” in the
first place.

There’s a micro emotional connection in the one night stand for most
men, which makes it a much warmer interaction. I stayed in touch with
many of my instant notches, at least for a short period of time, and
overall it was enriching for me.

Roosh has a point however that night game can daunting especially if you
frequent the same clubs night in and night out.

Meeting girls “as you go about your day” (daygame) is where it’s at for
me, plus online (although I treat this more as a ‘default’ option since
the quality you normally get online is much lower unless you’re very
good looking yourself.

Acehole
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After you reach a certain age or level of experience with women, you no longer want to bone, or even be associated with mediocre women. Women overall are a bore and bring far too little to the table to waste any precious time on. If you do encounter the rare hot chick and you want to pursue her, by all means do so; it is most certainly a worthwhile endeavor. However, gaming hot chicks is difficult and time consuming, even for the most experienced players. You must look at the cost/benefit analysis when going after a woman.

I’m in my mid 30’s and I’ve had many, many mediocre women. I’ve never been with anything I’d consider better than a 7. It’s tough to get excited about a regular woman, just like it’s tough to get excited about eating at Burger King.

I’m quite certain my female counterparts feel the same way about regular, boring dudes.

Veni Vidi Vici
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Agreed, but most men become less boring and mediocre as they age. As men it is our responsibility to impart our wisdom and insight to younger men if they are willing to listen…

GoingSane
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“Women are only good for one thing…and as soon as somebody figures out what the fuck that is, I want them to let me know!”
-old joke one of my friends used to tell

Luís
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I would say it’s the notch count rather than the age. You’re no longer excited about the process of seduction because it’s become automatic, second nature. So you see it as a grind unless you get to actually care about the girl. This has not happened to me despite being 34, I guess, because my notch count is around 20, so the girls still bring novelty.

Oliver
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http://freedompowerandwealth.com

Thank you for that post. I liked the
interview.

Batman3.0
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As man a get’s older, after gaining some experience, his tolerance for female stupidity and selfishness goes down real quick. It’s no use to sell your sanity and soul for access to a warm hole.

practicalh
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This is yet another strong sign that Roosh is maturing. Hopefully, sooner than later he will fall in love madly and will start writing about that too.

KansasBred78
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You’re kidding, I hope (about the “falling in love” part.

Kate
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I don’t agree with you.Polish girls aren’t easy.Oh well but since I have roman hook nose and curly hair then maybe I was baptized in XVII century.Because I’m not slavic
😀 and I’m from polish village 😀

Roosh
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Send pictures to [email protected]

A Room Without Windows
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The Forum is down as of 10:55 a.m. Sunday, Nov. 1.

Laurence
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I’m still a young guy, so I don’t mind having sex just for the pure purpose of sex. As long as I get hard, I’m happy.

As I get older, I’m sure I’ll start looking for sex with more girls that I have a true connection with.

66Scorpio
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I can’t access the video because China hates Youtube. However, the title brings to mind an episode that was the closest I ever got to engaging in a hate fuck.
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I met a girl online and then quick out of the gate she starts offering me play for pay. That has never been my thing so I just ignored her propositions and then chatted with her like she was another human being. Then the story came out. Her boss was her sugar daddy until his wife found out, then she got fired and cut off. She had no way to make rent so she tried prostituting herself online.
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I hung out with her and she seemed pleasant enough but then I made the mistake of inviting her along to a party. Everyone was liquored up but she starts talking some crazy shit – the exact nature of which I can’t remember as it was 20 years ago – and she was a complete embarrassment but since she was my invite everyone was giving me WTF? looks.
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So I took her by the hand and got the hell out of there. I was just going to dump her at her apartment but it became apparent that she was DTF. Her mistake was to offer it up. Maybe my mistake was in accepting. Either way, what transpired for the rest of the night would make today’s gonzo porn look like a love story.
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This was one of the few times that I banged a girl but never kissed her. She spent the night either face-down and ass-up like a dog, or face-down on my crotch. And the whole time I was telling her just how low my opinion of her had fallen, making it clear that this was punishment sex.
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The next morning we had both sobered up and there was a bit of naked awkwardness as I GTFO in a civil manner.
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Lesson learned? I would not recommend going down that path. Why bother? The balance of opinion here is that the quality of North American women is in deep decline. Even still, don’t compromise on quality. Two of my recurring quotes are these:
1) The greatest challenge for the western man in the 21st century is to find a woman who is more interesting than his left hand.
2) Choose your next girlfriend as if she were your last girlfriend.
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We are men, not dogs who will hump anything that presents itself. I don’t do the whole regret thing: What’s done is done. However, moving forward I would make different choices if given those same circumstances again.
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For the younger guys here, maybe you do want to fuck anything that moves. However, my advice is to adopt a mindset that considers your time, your affection, your cock and the semen that it ejaculates as gifts that should only be given to deserving women.
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“Fuck sluts” should be taken in its figurative rather than literal meaning.

Jill Kirkwood
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The greatest challenge for the western man in the 21st century is to find a woman who is more interesting than his left hand. – Can you please tell me what qualities in your opinion, make a woman interesting?

66Scorpio
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I would say artistic merit and sexual adventurism. I have dated doctors and business executives. Maybe a bona fide rocket scientist would be interesting. Actors, painters, writers, photographers, musicians and the like have something to talk about when you don’t have your dick in their mouth.
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It’s not like that has to be their full-time gig. My girlfriend is an administrative assistant but she has a degree in photography and plays the ukulele.

spicynujac
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This helps explain why my notch count is about 1/6 that of some of my less choosy friends… (while still being higher than my blue pill friends). I’ve just never felt good about banging girls I don’t like at least a little bit. Not saying I haven’t done it, but it is just not rewarding for me.

I don’t know that it’s aging–I think it’s just change. We all change. It’s part of being human. I had more one night stands after college than before, but I had a pretty boring sex life as a teen. Guy who travels around the world banging lots of women gets tired of it. That’s change.

66Scorpio
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The most alpha guy I know has a notch count way lower than me. It’s not even a matter of quality. With the exception of his flamenco dancer wife at present, he never had hot chicks even though he could have. He literally DNGAF.
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I don’t know what the experience of other guys here is. I don’t claim to be a player and admittedly, I have no game to speak of. I average one notch per year since the age of 18. That may not sound like a lot but given my preference for serial monogamy, dollars to donuts that at any given time over the last 30 years I was getting some regular satisfaction. Plus, according to any study I have looked at, a notch count of 30 puts me in the top quintile.
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That is not a boast, it just is what it is. No guy should get wrapped around the axle about his notch count. The greatest player will have a notch count of one because he is a bad – ass unicorn hunting motherfucker!

KansasBred78
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I think Roosh had posted on this site a long while ago that he had come to the conclusion that his ultimate measure of a man’s value is based on his abilities with the opposite sex (paraphrasing here). Whether that is notch count/pulling quality girls or what, I don’t exactly recall, but roughly something along those lines. I used to agree with that being the ultimate measure of what makes a man high quality/worthy of respect by other men, but am not so sure anymore. To me, at this point, pulling girls consistently is a key skillset for guys, but just isn’t what I consider to be the preeminent quality of a great man anymore. What do you guys think?

66Scorpio
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Roosh is not some cardboard misogynist or comic book villain as many SJWs would portray him as, and yet is he no saint or logically unassailable philosopher. He will say shit as click bait or to draw attention because that is how he makes money, so you have to parse through a lot of his stuff.
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There are two points that I particularly like about Roosh.
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First is the political engagement about the structure of western society and the expectations that are placed on men and women.
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Secondly, and to more directly address your point, what I see in Roosh as an evolution in thinking. I have only followed him, ROK and the red pill since January and I have not read everything published by everyone over the last 10 years on this topic. However, he seems to have gone from being a disgruntled INCEL to being the one of the leading gurus of Game but now laments at the pointlessness of it all.
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To clarify: fucking sluts and bitches just because you can becomes pointless.
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What he identified are qualities that make a man attractive to women – physical fitness, confidence, wealth, blarney – and has moved into a mind frame that these qualities are virtues in their own right.
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The test remains whether you can pull women using these virtues. However the ultimate goal is not a notch count but a unicorn hunt.

Mark Kimmel
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lol at the notion that banging sluts was even considered the measure of a man. that’s insidious blue pill thinking (masked as red pill) at its worse.

vuroyeh
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and sign up there for more details
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GiorgioBcn
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Hello from Barcelona.

Finally this topic appears here! I am 31 now but I’ve always had issues trying to WANT to pick up beautiful girls I didn’t really like. And that’s because I am shy, interovert, and I don’t like small talk, I’ve never felt confortable in rubbish chating which is what non-attractive guys need to attract girls with whom you have nothing in common.

I’ve only had success after really connecting with the girl, and it’s been from my early twenties to now.

Actually I never understood WHY some of my male friends were able to have sex with ugly/uninsteresting girls. I even felt too akward for not being able to do that. Because of course, I felt attracted by the idea of having sex of its own sake, but I’ve never been able to carry this out.

And still, at 32, I am trying to have this somehow immature mentality, because I prefer complaining and regreting after it has happened, instead of regreting that I’ve never tried.

Anonymous
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Marriage is a joke. I’d rather be a lifetime playboy than be the beta-meal ticket to some walking cum bucket with kids by 3 different men whose manipulating her way through my wallet as she looks to upgrade to a sucker with a bigger wallet. So long as you’re single your pockets will jingle.

Tina
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Ever, ya know put some consideration into buying a flesh-light? I guess that doesn’t work either, if one hate’s one’s self as much as you do.

Puccalove69
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Reasons not to fuck Roosh V;

1) You will be a notch.
2) You will get a disease.
3) He thinks the female orgasm is superfluous.
4) You will end up on the internet.