How The Game Is Played: Three Years Later

I checked back with Virgle Kent to follow-up on an interview I did with him three years ago. Let’s begin…

1. It’s been a while since we last had a chat about how you run game. What have you learned since then?

I’ve learned to strip away most of the bullshit. To do a lot with much less, to become a minimalist when it comes to game. I thought having a great job and a title would make gaming easier then I lost that. I thought having the best gym body would automatically equal having great game then I went more than four months without touching weights. Through everything I learned that what mattered most was the experience I’ve had with practicing game on women. I eventually got everything back and more but still remember the lessons I learned over the past three years. Time has a way of humbling men.

2. I’m sure you’ll agree with me that the definition of game is changing. In the past it was about wearing loud clothing and negging girls with memorized lines. What do you think game means today? What direction is it going? 

Game has evolved into a whole theology on what it means to be a man and feel like one in today’s society. It’s about being a man during the first approach, during a relationship, and even during a marriage. The secret being it’s not really what you say but how you say it. In the future men will have to work on setting themselves apart from other men with individual aspects of their lives that will make them naturally more interesting than most guys in the bar, lounge, party, or any environment they’re trying to pick up. Self improvement will be key.

3. Some commenters have pointed out that game is nothing more than a response to modern feminism. What relationship does feminism and game have with each other? How will this interaction change in the next couple of years?

Feminism is interesting. I disagree with the thought that game is the response to modern feminism. Feminism has been around far longer than game. I’ll tell you what, game works best on feminists, girls so assured of themselves and filled with fake confidence based on their education and careers that they never see it coming. Most feminists honestly believe that game doesn’t exist or would never work on someone like them. But in the grand scheme of things most young women are feminist in name only, because they’re alone and have nothing else to hold on to or call themselves so they use feminism to feel a part of something. So if they meet a real alpha or guy with game and it’s between him or dying alone with one cat and two eggs holding on to each other for dear life, what do you think they’ll choose? For most women, feminism is an act of convenience more than a lifestyle of faith.

4. A man’s game usually is a result of his personality and the type of girls he goes for. What kind of girls are you banging lately? How have you honed your game to get them?

I’ve been having a lot of affairs with married women. More than I’d care to admit. To get them I’m just a really good listener. To me I’m intrigued by some of these beautiful wives in this town with the worlds biggest ring. I used to think the size of their rings meant they were happy and in love. So I started asking questions and listening. What I found was these are women who realize that ever after is a fucking long time… with the same person. They have the house, the kids, the cars, but I learned a beautiful woman’s greatest fear is becoming invisible. And these ain’t fat housewives that let themselves go either. I’m talking from 27 to 38, yoga-mats-and-pilates women.

It’s not as simple as it looks. Sure some are sluts no questions about that. But others just reach a point. The greatest thing I learned just being a successful alpha isn’t good enough to keep your woman. They all have this minimum level of attention, love, and sex needed from you to keep them. If you drop below that level she’ll find it from someone else. This made me open my eyes to my own relationship and not taking anything for granted or think I got it in the bag. But then again I’ve never been with the same woman for over a year so what the fuck do I know.

5. You’ve recently been involved in a long-term relationship with a foreign woman. How was that like?

Night and fucking day, it was surreal, like owning a PC then switching to Macbook. The simplicity and the intuitive ease. It changed me in giving me hope for guys like us, like when we need to retire from game and relax there are women out there that are feminine, loving, and trusting. It’s tough sometimes living in DC to believe there are women like that out there. I didn’t need to use that much game with her after I got her; her attraction level to me was still high. But I remembered the lessons I learned from affairs with married women and made sure I kept up my end of attention and showed I cared in my own alpha way. Overall I would equate it to that feeling you got from being in Poland, a place where feminine women do exist. Like seeing a unicorn.

6. There seems to be a lot of anger among young guys who have flocked to game denialist forums to mock the use of game. They use similar language in their attacks as the feminists. What do you think is going on here? Do you think young guys are taking to game like we did in our early 20s?

I think young guys are just being young by their nature. What comes with that is anger, and more commonly, impatience. They’re in denial because game didn’t work fast enough for them. They read the books, followed the blogs, did everything “word for word” and in 6 months, 10’s weren’t falling from the sky. It’s like a guy who has never worked out before joining the exact same gym Jay Cutler works out at and buying the same supplements Jay advertises in Muscle Magazine and is shocked—fucking shocked—he too isn’t benching 350 for sets of ten. So he says fuck body building, that it’s for idiots and assholes, and decides to take up a vegan diet and practice bikram yoga because it’s more hardcore and spiritual and less gay… wait what.

Part of it is our fault. Game bloggers that show the end results. We don’t talk much about our mistakes or times we failed at a pick up, or even the many years trying to crack a certain type of situation, which is where the true lessons are learned. It’s always finished product and young guys read it and it looks easy to them like anyone can do it. Like my favorite quote from Nick Wells in The Score goes (and I’m paraphrasing here)…

“Sit down and make a list of everything you want to get in your life, the cars, the house, all the toys. Then spend the next 25 years of your life getting it piece by piece.”

7. You’ve just revealed a new site to the world called Nexxt Level Up. How is it different from your existing blog? What do you hope to accomplish? 

I’ll start with the concept. Right now I feel that typical game blogs are in what I like to call theory or concept mode. Everyone has their own theory on the best way to number close, neg, one night notch, etc. What the reader has to do now is study that and learn what works for them. Soon everyone adopts which style of game works best for them after a few years. Once that’s done, what’s next?

My goal with the game lifestyle magazine was to fill that void. I wanted to touch on other elements of a man’s life that could help improve his game. Fashion, health and fitness, cooking and dining, and travel. These are a lot of areas to cover so I was sure to bring in men who knew more than me in these areas, guys that I look up to on their own blogs.

It’ll be different from other “group blogs” in that everyone brings their own special expertise to the table to build something going in one direction. It’s more focused. Hopefully a different post a day and a one-stop shop to just learn something different or what you might not have thought of before. I’ll still be writing about my game theory and my little sex stories as well, but the purpose is that the site as a whole should help improve your overall game and life, giving you an advantage on guys who are still stuck on theory.

It’s a new concept (in our game world), but hopefully what comes across is the possibilities of where game can go as a whole, that the only thing holding us back is ourselves. I have a feeling that other game blogs will band together as groups and something will push through to the mainstream. This is my attempt at that.

Check out Virgle Kent’s new project at Nexxtlevelup.com. Catch up on his existing work here.

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nathanwyatt
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“I’ve been having a lot of affairs with married women. More than I’d care to admit. To get them I’m just a really good listener.”

The risks of listening to women, in multiple senses.

If you listen in the sense that you heed their explicit advice, you will be led far astray.

If you listen in the sense that you make yourself available and empathize, you will draw their need and affection. The lays are nice if you can keep them, but the angry husbands and jealous townsfolk could end up being problematic.

Roger
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Roger
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Good luck with NextlevelUp. Definately a need for a mag like that.

Vice once had a cool Hemingwayesque / Hustler vibe that has pretty much disappeared. I suspect branching out into a gazillion different countries hasn’t helped with regard content quality.

Vice slowly became a crap version of TheOnion (with the humour bit substituted for cattiness, thanks to female writers).

Their problem is they can’t decide whether their demographic is male or female which is where I think you stand to benefit.

Btw please redo the top Home icon, it looks badly pixalated.

outlaw josey wales
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outlaw josey wales
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Great interview.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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It’s not until i read the last line about the new website that i realised, the interview was about virgle and not virgle interviewing you, Roosh.

I was like Roosh is having affairs with married women? where does he have the time??

Excellent post

Nonpareil
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Nonpareil
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Good interview and I like his site…VK is a fuckin’ beast.

samseau
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samseau
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I wish you luck with your new site VK.

Matt H.
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Matt H.
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Answer #4 disturbs me. Not that I’m a believer in marriage. Answer #5 gives me hope, except that I’m in the wrong city and probably wrong country.

OldHornDog
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OldHornDog
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” it was surreal, like owning a PC then switching to Macbook”

LMAO smile

Seriously that analogy was just too funny…

Brandon
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Brandon
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enlightening. much appreciated post.

Nomad77
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Nomad77
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“Part of it is our fault. Game bloggers that show the end results. We don’t talk much about our mistakes or times we failed at a pick up, or even the many years trying to crack a certain type of situation, which is where the true lessons are learned. It’s always finished product and young guys read it and it looks easy to them like anyone can do it.”

Very true. As a society we want to show off “events” because the process to attain the events are long and boring.

Dagonet
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Dagonet
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Great interview; looking forward to the new site, VK!

Turner
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Turner
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Bam. Nailed it Virgle.

This post was brilliant. Mature and poised with so much wisdom to glean.

“…they’re alone and have nothing else to hold on to or call themselves so they use feminism to feel a part of something.”
“feminism is an act of convenience more than a lifestyle of faith.”

So true. But it is the reason why many people cling to groups , to have a sense of belonging. I can feel this when a girl goes on some tirade, that she deep down, is just hurting inside and frustrated that she got sold a false bill of goods (job, career, success = men wanting her, happiness).

“So he says fuck body building, that it’s for idiots and assholes, and decides to take up a vegan diet and practice bikram yoga because it’s more hardcore and spiritual and less gay… wait what.”

ha truth.

” future men will have to work on setting themselves apart from other men with individual aspects of their lives that will make them naturally more interesting”

I found this to be more and more true the older I get. Whenever I get back in town and I meet new girls, my lifestyle, vibe, and personality is so strikingly different than other guys, particular as people tend to conform and get more boring as they settle into careerdom etc. But having an interesting edge/components to my personality makes a pretty big impact, and very early in the interaction.

I think your new blog is a good idea and a step in the right direction as their is a lot of convergence of important ideas on being a man. I look forward to it.

Turner

lonesailorgrind
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Strange, I loved that quote from the movie too, but what I got out of that quote was more of when it comes time to quit the game, you should have a list of what you set out to acquire. Otherwise it’s never enough and you lose yourself. It’s a shame I can’t find the exact words on the internet, but I remembered it being more like “kid, make a list of what you want because it’ll never be enough. Then spend the next 25 years of your life getting it piece by piece.” That’s the only way you can “win.”

20th Level
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20th Level
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I’m a true believer of what goes around comes around so I don’t fuck married women if I can help it.

I can’t tell you how the universe is wired but I can tell you that Karma or whatever you want to call is real. Good or bad, what you put out there is going to come back in some form or another.

It would probably take some ultra mega quantum physics chaos theory supercomputer ti figure it out.

outlaw josey wales
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outlaw josey wales
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Another reason not to get married. VK may fuck your wife if you slack off!

Krauser
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Krauser
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I only ever skimmed VK’s blog and never read it. Based on this interview, I think I’ve underestimated him. He has his shit together.

skeet_game
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skeet_game
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and does bikram yoga coz it’s less gay wait what

hahahah still laughing 5 min later. vintage VK – comedy king

beta_plus
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beta_plus
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“Part of it is our fault. Game bloggers that show the end results. We don’t talk much about our mistakes or times we failed at a pick up, or even the many years trying to crack a certain type of situation, which is where the true lessons are learned. It’s always finished product and young guys read it and it looks easy to them like anyone can do it.”

I don’t know if you were the first game guru to ever be honest about this, but you were certainly the first one that I ever read who made it clear how many hours and how much failure that it took to succeed. Thanks for doing that.

Doc
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Doc
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“I’ve been having a lot of affairs with married women.”

I learned long ago, that if a woman is unhappy, she is fair game, and almost every married woman is unhappy. Heck, I targeted married women exclusively in my younger days – much older married women all of whom wanted a child before they got too old. And I was happy to oblige them with what I could provide. My only limitation was that they had to be attractive to me – back then, there were a LOT fewer whales then there are today…

Now, I figure it is up to every man to control his women – if he can’t they are fair game. So more power to you. I did find it fun to expand their horizons – so hearing the words “I’ve never done that before” always brings a smile to me…

Casual
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Casual
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Love the new site! There has definitely been a need for a more comprehensive lifestyle magazine that incorporates game (another good one is the Art of Manliness). I’ve subscribed.

Timoteo
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Timoteo
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Nice touch on Nexxtlevelup with the pic of Paul Bettany from “Gangster No.1,” and the pic of Tom Hardy, Colm Meany and crew from “Layer Cake.” Two of my favorite films. The Brits do great gangster films.

Mark
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Mark
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I don’t care what anybody says. I’m 57 years old and game has made some impact on my life. Even in my most handsome younger days, an approach was something to be dreaded. Now I don’t give a fuck. If the women say no, big fucking deal.

With the advice on this site, I can treat all of them as learning exercises. Even in non-pickup conversation, it helps. Before, if any conversation was dragging or a lull was reached I would assume it was my fault. Now I assume the woman is a drip with no personality, which is the truth. I’m just more comfortable in my skin then I used to be.

Even last night at 3 am in the morning at the 24 hour Walgreens, a cute girl was waiting at the register when I walked up. The cashier was back in the back. Roissy had a picture of Prince Harry with a cute girl hanging on his shoulder, jabbering in his ear, and Harry had the most aloof look on his face like he couldn’t care less if she stayed or left. That’s my look now. Before game I would have been uncomfortable with that situation in the Walgreens. I just walked up with that Harry look on my face, looked at the magazines. Snookie was on the cover of People with her new baby. I showed her the magazine and I said “Look at Snookie’s baby. Baby look just her momma.” The girl smiled and looked over and said “I know.” I said “That baby is cuter than I would have thought it to be” and then we started talking. I knew the Walgreens clerk and when the clerk walked up, she said “Now you dragging that girl into your gossip magazine junkie habit” And that was more or less the end of the interaction.

But before game I never could have done that with a 25 year old girl at 3am in a Walgreens. Just the look on my face thatI would have had and the discomfort I would have felt would have made her uncomfortable. Me sensing her discomfort would cause me to think there must be something wrong with me or she wouldn’t be uncomfortable. Now I truly don’t give a fuck. If she would have just glanced at the magazine when I spoke and shrugged and said nothing, big deal. Two minutes later she was out of my life. What do expect when you talk to girls at 3am in a drug store? But she didn’t and so instead of a tense situation, it was a chatty moment.

No I am not pulling down 10s but so what. I feel better about me and woman are far more knowable. less intimidating because of these blogs and game. And that really means something when you’re 57. I know shit is going to get a lot worse the older I get but now I know that it don’t make no sense to just crawl into a hole and wait to die.

So fuck them angry boys. Golf ain’t for everybody and neither is game. But if you practice at both you can get better. And if all it ever does for me from this point forward is make me more comfortable with me and make other people more comfortable with me, then that’s a fuck of an improvement over where I used to be.

Here is a personal to Roosh. There is trip a man has to go through to get over divorce, quit being angry, leave the past in the past, and get going with whatever time you have left in life. For a lot of men it starts with MRA blogs, maybe a side trip in MGTOW, and all that shit brought me here to you.

Yeah, I was pissed as a motherfucker over my experience and then what happened with women after the divorce, trying to get with them as a 50 year old man. I think it clicked for me reading that rant you had towards the MRA guys where you said “Fuck it. You cry about divorce laws and I am not marrying an American woman. You cry about child support and I am not having no baby”.

Ain’t nobody gonna change shit. Things are the way that they are. The reality of Feminism is that in the end, that shit freed me. I didn’t want to be divorced at 50 years old but like it or not, I was. I live fucking free now in a way I never did when I was married. So a motherfucker better just figure out how to deal with the world as it is and make the best of the situation and if he does it right, it can be a far better life than being someone’s husband. Ain’t no sense wasting no more time being mad at some shit you can’t change. So you keep on doing whatever it is you do. “Cause some people get it and you help those that do get it.

Thanks.

[Roosh: Awesome]

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Badger
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Badger
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“To get them I’m just a really good listener.”

We go on a lot about alpha and leadership and etc in the community, but the ability to listen with a frame of non-judgmentalism (or at least fake it)
is blindingly powerful to a woman’s gina tingler.

If you’ve established just a little bit of attraction, you trip the “OMG a hot guy is paying attention to meeeee!!!” sensor and you’re as good as in.

Now, you can’t go empathizing with her, because then you hit the friend-zone, girl-with-a-dick typecast. Just listen, make it a safe space for her to voluminate. She’ll connect you with the idea of safety and emotional comfort.

For most of us guys, the challenge is suppressing our semi-involuntary reactions to whatever self-absorbed nonsense rolls out of their mouths.

George
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George
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Enjoyed this, very insightful.

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Giovonny
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Giovonny
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“I’ve learned to strip away most of the bullshit.”

“The secret being it’s not really what you say but how you say it”

“To get them I’m just a really good listener.”

These were my favorite lines.

Always interesting to hear a players perspective.

Marco
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Marco
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Well, you slashdotted Kent’s site, congratz

Steve
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Steve
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Intersting read of Mr. Kent. I think he knows a lot however I should caution him as well as his readers of the whole marriage issue. As Roosh has stated in several of his blogs that hypergamy is rampant, I am inclined to agree. And thanks to todays zeitgeist where todays’ females are too addicted to their smart phones and social networking technologies, hence making them addicted to themselves, any man should forgoe marriage. There is no “game” that can make a female stay with a man. Its exactly as Roosh staed once “Loot while you still can” But the other things Mr. Kent has asserted I think are quite interesting and valid.

asdfasdf
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asdfasdf
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“I’ve been having a lot of affairs with married women. More than I’d care to admit. To get them I’m just a really good listener. ” -Virgle Kent

Good God, this is messed up.

Since when was it okay to ruin someone’s marriage? The woman is the one who is most responsible in this situation. But it doesn’t Virgle Kent’s behavior right. He is enabling an affair to take place. He is part of it.

But the affair is stated like it’s no big deal. Whatever, right?

In reality, people’s lives and marriages have been destroyed by his actions. Where is the compassion in that?

How are these actions to which we should aspire?

The fact that we can talk so casually talking about ruining marriages ,and no one bats an eye, shows how far our culture has really fallen.

Feminism is a toxic ideology. But so is proposing hurting people (via affiars) , merely to benefit your own self interest.

—-

“But then again I’ve never been with the same woman for over a year so what the fuck do I know.” -Virgle Kent

Ding ding ding. That’s the whole central issue here.

Let’s get this straight.

(1) Many men one these sites just want quick sex, and exhibit some degree of ‘dark triad’ traits (narcissism/sociopathy) or score high on ‘Avoidance’ in personality attachment style. Roosh’s / Virgle’s information will be helpful to them.

(2) But there are a substantial number of men reading Roosh, Virgle, Chateau, etc . who want to find a high-quality (read: feminine, attractive, traditional) woman for themselves, and keep her around for a longer period of time (measured in years).

Here’s the problem for group #2.

Many game ‘advice gurus’ (besides Roissy, who is the exception) have absolutely zero interest in learning how to have a maintain successful relationships, and offer no tips on this *because they don’t know how* and/or are psychologically unable to grow in a relationship .

How many game advice ‘gurus’ have managed a successful, objectively-healthy relationship with a hot 10/10? Can they keep this relationship running for 36 months? Are they aware of their psychological attachment-style? If the relationship fails, can they explain the details in why it failed?

I would surmise many ‘game gurus’ are narcissists, sociopaths, or Avoidants, which explains why these gurus are unwilling or psychologically unable to form long-term bonds.

(For those interested in self-knowledge, you can take a test HERE to measure your psychological attachment-style as it relates to long-term relationships. This can really help you succeed in an LTR.)

Attachment-Style Personality Test
http://www.web-research-design.net/cgi-bin/crq/crq.pl

The current toxic cultural environment is how we get morally bankrupt people like Virgle Kent (who are sleeping with married women, and destroying people’s lives in the process), elevated to the ‘guru’ status. We are supposed to listen to this guy for advice on how to run our lives?

Yeah, if I want casual sex in under 36 hours from landing at the airport, then sure I’ll listen to Virgle or Roosh. But what about BEYOND that. Moral growth. Spiritual growth. Successful long-term relationships. Self-knowledge. All I hear are crickets.

We are taking game/relationship advice from people who are successful at getting sex quickly, but lack an ability to form a long-term bond with someone (a succesful relationship), and often , have zero insight into the fact that their psychology is abnormal (no long-term bonding).

This is like taking advice from how to manage your money from a bum.

FFY
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FFY
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@asdfasdf

First thing, brah, you act like having a relationship is some kind of holy grail. Good luck getting one with that attitude.

Second thing, you don’t have to listen to VK or Roosh. That’s what is so great about the internet. Go read something else, then. Furthermore, has either of them claimed to be “relationship experts”? No. So your attempt to somehow smear them or lower them because *they* don’t give you what *you* want is pointless.

Go read Carolyn Hax or some shit like that

Virgle Kent
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@ asdfasdf

Did your wife or girl cheat on you. Have seat tell me all about it, let it out bro let it out. We’re all hear to listen….. shhhhh it’s ok…. this is the circle of trust, you’re safe here.

Yeah I guess if it wasn’t for me these girls wouldn’t creep with anyone at all, nope they’d still be in loving relationships (many of them are still in loving relationships)

Therapsid
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Virgle – as a PUA you know that even people solidly committed to their partners can give it up in the right circumstances.

The equivalent would be if a hot 21 year old girl started hitting on a married 40 year old guy. It’s still cheating and it still puts a question mark on his marriage, but let’s be real. It’s possible he might not have cheated at all or have only made the rare transgression if it were not for that girl throwing herself.

As a player honed in game, you’re like that nubile 21 year old chick.

I say all this despite having done married women before. I’m not proud of it, and under the right circumstances like my hypothetical middle aged husband, I’d do it again.

MQ
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MQ
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The greatest thing I learned just being a successful alpha isn’t good enough to keep your woman. They all have this minimum level of attention, love, and sex needed from you to keep them. If you drop below that level she’ll find it from someone else.

This. Women lust for attention, affection, focus from a man they love like men lust for strange pussy. Men have it easier than women in a sense because if you really stay focused on her you can satisfy her needs (while men will always have at least a small part of them that would sleep with that cute 21 year old). But if you slack off you’re in trouble and she will drift off.

This is different from hypergamy, which is there but less important than a lot of game people make it out to be. Women are not out there looking for a better deal constantly, but they are looking for intense engagement and romantic attraction from the guy they bonded to. Maybe more than is fair to ask at times. But the pure focus on hypergamy on game sites is IMO a little fear-driven — basically the guys are afraid that the woman will leave them for something better, and they project that into a law of female nature.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Ok, I think I’ve reached the tipping point.

Long story short I grabbed a table that just opened up at a very busy bar. Then this girl comes over and says that her and her friends (mixed group, all SWPLs deserving a good shit kicking) want the table in a bitchy fashion. I say no, she gets a bouncer, two other guys not part of her group, and her guy friends to force me to give up the table or I have to leave the bar ( I got at the bar first of my friends so I tried to grab the table for us, as is etiquitte). So I get up and am able to get another table, the table next to this one, rather quickly. But later on as the night progresses, I hear her bragging about how she forced me off the table basically by rounding up 7 guys in total, and one bouncer in specific. Guys, THEY ARE NOT FRAGILE OR VICTIMS. They know the power they have and they know how to play the game to get other guys to do their dirty work. What pisses me off is the fact that I tried to explain the situation and the guys were having none of it (not to brag but without a doubt her “guy” friends I could’ve took, it was the other two and the bouncer that I knew I had a losing dilemma). These guys are really pissing me off, they let this behaviour happen. Why the fuck are guys giving women a free pass like this? They know there power and abuse it, then brag about it. This is a fucking joke. If this exact same situation were between me and a guy, none of this support network would exist. As much as the women can bother me here from time to time, it’s the cowardice of the average man that lets me know we don’t stand a chance.

Wilson
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Wilson
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Does your ideal exist, asdfasdf, or does it only come to you late at night in a fitful sleep or that one time you fell down the stairs drunk and knocked yourself out. Dating married chicks is tacky-because they are usually going to be too damn old–but if being married is an obstacle for a woman to gag on that alpha cock, well then she will just get a divorce.

Dusty
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Dusty
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Cool post, cool interview. Good luck to VK with Nexxt Level Up. Just curious, what is VK’s race? Is he white/black/other?

1942
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1942
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VK is black like the black stallion your* wife wants to fuck.

* general your

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Leonida
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Leonida
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If some one needs to be updated with most up-to-date technologies
afterward he must be pay a quick visit this web page and be up to date everyday.

-----
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-----
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seems to me like return of kings was born from virgiles site idea..props to him

mmakshak
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mmakshak
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I firmly believe you were put on earth for a reason, and you are just dabbling in b.s. until you find out what that is, and start working on it.