Most people see incels and fornicators as complete opposites. The successful fornicator is enjoying life and receiving rewards while the incel is obviously suffering in mommy’s basement due to a lack of sex. Most secular people would agree that it’s much better to be a fornicator, but if that assumption is examined, it becomes clear that incels and fornicators are not that different from each other.

I was a successful fornicator for nearly two decades. Using both inherent abilities and acquired skill, I learned how to chat up women in just about any environment, show value, and—if a woman had attraction for me—profit with at least one instance of casual sex. It’s not exactly easy to master the art of pickup, so what do you think was constantly on my mind during these years I aimed to be a world champion fornicator? Sex. I would wake up in the morning and think of sex. I would write about sex during the day. I would think of sex when seeing women in public. I would fill my nights with the pursuit of sex, and if that failed, I would masturbate to videos of people having sex. A huge chunk of my life was dedicated to feeding my lust in order to generate the fuel to undertake the challenging task of pickup, with which I was successful enough to teach thousands of other men.

Now imagine the incel. What do you think is going on in his mind every day? Sex. He wakes up in the morning and dwells on how he desires sex but can’t get it. He masturbates vigorously to porn day and night, cursing the world for his imposed celibacy. If he doesn’t talk about sex, he’s discussing women through the lens of sex, complaining about them being sluts, dishonorable, race-mixers, or what have you. He attacks men who are successful with women and wishes for society to burn to the ground because in that case, his odds of getting sex may increase. He’s not getting laid like the fornicator, but sex is no less on his mind.

The fornicator and incel are identical in that they are held hostage by their lust. They both believe that a woman can save their lives in some way, and therefore dedicate just about their entire mental outlook to women. The only meaningful difference is that the fornicator can at least occasionally get laid due to being better looking, more persistent, or more socially calibrated, but what type of outlook did most fornicators have before learning how to get laid? That of an incel.

I was an incel in high school and college. I lusted after women and were jealous of men who got laid. Then I learned game and became a renowned fornicator, but internally I was the same, still enslaved to my lust. If anything, getting laid made me even more enslaved because I developed an addiction to the physical aspect of sex, and did not want to regress back into being a “loser” who had to masturbate alone, as if there was no other option.

Sometimes when I see a man with big muscles, I think to myself, “Where is the little boy inside?” The muscles are just an outward physical covering that doesn’t change what is happening within his soul, for any increase in confidence a bodybuilder experiences will immediately evaporate if his muscles deflate. He stays in the gym not necessarily because he enjoys it, but because he’s scared of going back to possessing a normal body and having to look at the little boy in the mirror. His confidence is false, and it’s the same with the fornicator.

When you look at a modern Don Juan, ask yourself: where is the incel inside? Where is the man who wanted his dream woman but couldn’t get her, and moved mountains to “improve” himself in order to receive the consolation prize of sex with promiscuous women? He may feel more confident now, but that confidence is totally dependent on a woman saying yes to his advances. It takes just one cold streak of no sex and the little boy will reveal himself in a frustrated panic. Whether a man sleeps with a few women or a few hundred, you will see the incel again from just a week or two of bad responses from women.

As long as you are enslaved to your lust and the intimacy you hope to receive, it matters not whether your classification is player or incel. Both are obsessed with sex, and while the player is lucky or skilled enough to participate in the carnal act, they are more similar than they would like to admit. They are both immature boys, because you cannot mature as a man if you spend your adulthood feeding your vices and being enslaved to your passions. Simply ask me how I was a 39-year-old boy, and I will tell you.

Outside of marriage, only the man who is celibate through his free will (i.e. he is a practicing Christian) is different from the fornicator and incel in both substance and spirit. The Christian man is not dependent on the responses of women to make him feel good or confident. With God’s help, he has minimized or entirely removed lust as his master to turn away from the type of sin that can lead to judgement. He is celibate because he wants to please his Creator and be a good steward of his soul, which means the demotion of his bodily desires along with other concerns of the world. Meanwhile, the fornicator or incel cannot see beyond the tips of their erections. The entire world must be framed around sexual attraction and a distorted perception of human value, just to abuse their bodies for fleeting pleasure. I know this being I lived it, publicly, for so long.

When I was in Austin, Texas, I met a man in an Orthodox church who was about the same age as me. He said that he found pickup around the time The Game came out, before I wrote my first pickup book Bang. He tried to learn game, and got a handful of dates, but was rather unsuccessful at it. Instead of turning to another game guru for help, or to pornography, he turned to God. He received God’s grace and met his wife not long after. There in the church were four of his children. How I wish at that moment that I was also bad at game! But no, I was good at it, because I was so crazed for sex that I would do everything to ensure success. Each new bang kept me in the game, and next thing I knew, eighteen years of my life had passed me by, and the only “children” I accumulated were stuffed animals in the backseat of my car.

It turns out that the incel is better off than the fornicator, because while he may be a vigorous masturbator, he does not fornicate, so he sins less in the eyes of God. He sustains less damage to his soul and is therefore closer to receiving His grace than a man who is puffed up with an unwarranted ego just because he can sleep with fallen women he meets in bars or through Tinder.

My sexual “success” gave me so much pride that I never thought I needed God to save me, but that success was actually a massive failure, down to every last bang which I have prayed to forget. These acts helped push me down such a dark pit that only direct divine intervention could lift me back up. I wish that when I was frustrated about sex, instead of turning to pickup to save me, I turned to God instead. I wish I asked Him to help me with my lust and to send me a woman if it serves His will instead of being directed by my own passions and remaining a little boy for so long.

Read Next: Game Is For Fallen Women

Loading new replies...

“Where is the little boy inside?”

Here's a poem I quite like:

Sometimes

Across the fields of yesterday
He sometimes comes to me,
A little lad just back from play --
The lad I used to be.

And yet he smiles so wistfully
Once he has crept within,
I wonder if he hopes to see
The man I might have been.

- Thomas S. Jones, Jr.

Reply 7 Likes

From the abused (blue-pilled) dead end to the abuser (red-pilled) dead end. May you eventually find the balance you are looking for.

Reply 2 Likes

It turns out that the incel is better off than the fornicator, because while he may be a vigorous masturbator, he does not fornicate, so he sins less in the eyes of God. He sustains less damage to his soul and is therefore closer to receiving His grace than a man who is puffed up with an unwarranted ego just because he can sleep with fallen women he meets in bars or through Tinder.

I'm not so sure if I agree with that, since the incel would sin with a woman at first opportunity. The fornicator at least understands interactions to some degree. Generally speaking, the incel doesn't actively try hard enough to push out of his situation. Although the fornicator sins and drags other people down with him, he can come to a realization that what he's pursuing is empty, while the incel lives among his fantasies. God chose St Paul for a reason, for he was a zealous Pharisee, the persecutor of Christians. God can redirect a misplaced zeal, I don't know of anyone who came close to God without trying.

Reply 7 Likes

click to expand...

When you look at a modern Don Juan, ask yourself: where is the incel inside? Where is the man who wanted his dream woman but couldn’t get her, and moved mountains to “improve” himself in order to receive the consolation prize of sex with promiscuous women? He may feel more confident now, but that confidence is totally dependent on a woman saying yes to his advances. It takes just one cold streak of no sex and the little boy will reveal himself in a frustrated panic. Whether a man sleeps with a few women or a few hundred, you will see the incel again from just a week or two of bad responses from women.

This is very true. I have noticed both in former myself and in other PUAs.
It would be interesting to study the connection between high school incelism and becoming a pick up artist. Almost all PUAs were either the incel or bullied in high school. Sadly the way society (and especially fallen women) considers you in high regard is to be popular among women. This is why they eventually choose to become a pick up artist.

How many PUAs have actually had a healthy relationship with a GOOD woman?
As much as we (rightly) criticize women for having been on the cock carousel and thus having troubles in bonding, it's a very real phenomenon with the men who have options as well. Once you get the taste of that sin, it's hard to change.

Reply 3 Likes

click to expand...

Incels can't imagine men abstaining from fornication. They see men like the Monastics as Cope. And as Incels in denial.

Reply 3 Likes

This is very true. I have noticed both in former myself and in other PUAs.
It would be interesting to study the connection between high school incelism and becoming a pick up artist. Almost all PUAs were either the incel or bullied in high school. Sadly the way society (and especially fallen women) considers you in high regard is to be popular among women. This is why they eventually choose to become a pick up artist.

How many PUAs have actually had a healthy relationship with a GOOD woman?
As much as we (rightly) criticize women for having been on the cock carousel and thus having troubles in bonding, it's a very real phenomenon with the men who have options as well. Once you get the taste of that sin, it's hard to change.

Bingo. Almost all PUAs come off as try hards with a chip on their shoulder. There is this elastic dynamic of going from one end of the spectrum to the other. I remember reading weird posts on RVF 1.0 of guys setting all these strange 'goals' like having a different girl each day for 2 weeks straight. Only a former incel could think along those lines

The funny is thing that the person they mostly got something to prove to, is themselves

--

Spot on again.

It's a two way street. Both incels and bitter fornicators need to realise that change starts with oneself. Another poster on this board used the phrase 'the macro and micro are always connected' a couple of days ago

I think that basically sums op how societal change comes to be. By starting with yourself

Reply 6 Likes

click to expand...

If you have sex and no children to show for it then all you have done is wasted your seed. It does not matter if you dated J'Lo in her prime - no kids to show for it means no real result.

You think people are gonna care when you are a balding 50 year old man with a beer belly and tell people about how you fornicated with some ladies in a hotel bar in Miami? If you don't have any progeny, any children to show for it you will just be that loser "uncle" with no kids.

Truth is all fornicators are sinners. The fornicaters revel in their sin and the Incels wish they could be the sinner. I guess in one way you can say that the incels are the lesser sinner of the two but both belong to the same class of misguided spirits. A very interesting read.

Reply 6 Likes

click to expand...

Great article. On a related note, I always thought of myself as an 'Inplay' - an involuntary playboy. I mean this in an honest way. During my many years of dating and seducing women for short-term sexual gratification, I was always aware that I was doing so because of an inability to marry the right woman or to maintain a stable relationship. As the resulting state always had the flair of being the second choice, or involuntary, there was only the choice between being an involuntary celibate and and involuntary playboy.

In fact, I believe that this is the choice that many men appear to be left with today, which is cause for our modern day culture of men either fornicating with as many women as possible, or not fornicating at all.

There are several reasons for my inability to maintain a stable relationship, partially it is the modern culture, partially it is related to issues within my own personality.

I purposefully said that the incel/inplay choice appears to be the choice left for men today, because there are other examples like the family man mentioned in Roosh's article above. He did the opposite what many indiscriminately fornicating men do: He chose long-term gratification in the form of a family in exchange for foregoing short-term gratification of sexual hedonism.
Many men do it the exact opposite way, which is a mistake in the long run.

Reply 6 Likes

click to expand...

Bingo. Almost all PUAs come off as try hards with a chip on their shoulder. There is this elastic dynamic of going from one end of the spectrum to the other. I remember reading weird posts on RVF 1.0 of guys setting all these strange 'goals' like having a different girl each day for 2 weeks straight. Only a former incel could think along those lines

The funny is thing that the person they mostly got something to prove to, is themselves

--

Spot on again.

It's a two way street. Both incels and bitter fornicators need to realise that change starts with oneself. Another poster on this board used the phrase 'the macro and micro are always connected' a couple of days ago

I think that basically sums op how societal change comes to be. By starting with yourself

What's funny also is how in RVF 1.0 we went for first date bang and dumped them if not they didn't give sex by third date.
Yet at the same time complaining and feeling disgusted by women who are easy.
Can't have a cake and eat it too.
Many women have told me that men ghost them if they won't have sex in 3 dates.
This is the culture we helped to build. Unless men start shaming sluts AND not have sex with them as soon as possible, I don't see a way out of this mess.
It's conservative God fearing men against (((media))) and coomers. Those are the enemy, not women. After all we all know women are children and shape like water.

Reply 4 Likes

click to expand...

Isn't this the truth?! The only difference here being PUAs being more successful when trying to get women. Part of being a PUA is doing anything to get laid even if it means acting like a fake clown. The incels, on the other hand, blame the whole world that they can't get any women. Some end up becoming violent sociopaths. Yet they all have a common goal, which is to have sex with women. At the end of the day, they are all miserable because they don't understand that being with a woman doesn't fill up a void in their life. They are just two sides of the same coin.

Reply 3 Likes

Christian experience in the Incelsphere:

Gnostic view of God as Demiurge and so on. Many of them are either frustrated Romantics or failed Hedonists.

Many of them hate Jesus Christ in particular.

Reply 1 Like

Involuntary playboy..... Another joke and weird rationalization that I found on the internet today. :laughter:

Incel acting like they're a victim of society. Involuntary playboy (inplay? Weird) act like they're a victim of both society and themselves (their lust and unfit psychological condition).

They both act as if they're a helpless automaton who don't have any capability to control and master themselves in order to exercise a better choice in challenging situations. Also applies to PUA. All of them are psychologically stunted and spiritually lost.

Stop the excuse. People can always have a choice to refuse the fallen culture and stand alone devoting themselves to God while living a good and wholesome chaste life + doing a good service to others. This can be done within or without romantic relationship.

(Maybe the involuntary playboy comment came from the spirit of RooshV forum 1.0)

Reply 2 Likes

click to expand...

I am, with my Bible study group, reading about Idolatry in the Bible right now. Here is Isaiah 42:17

Those who trust in engraved images, who tell molten images, ‘You are our gods’ will be turned back. They will be utterly disappointed.

Our society has made fortification and adultery a graven image, an idol, a false god. Indeed, I have internalized this idolatry to the point the devil uses it to try and swerve me from the righteous path of loving God.

Reply 5 Likes

I am, with my Bible study group, reading about Idolatry in the Bible right now. Here is Isaiah 42:17

Our society has made fortification and adultery a graven image, an idol, a false god. Indeed, I have internalized this idolatry to the point the devil uses it to try and swerve me from the righteous path of loving God.

The modern life also has an idolatry of self. People are making their social media accounts as a temple to idolize themselves. Its wall is filled with endless selfies and images capturing themselves and anything that they do. People are so enchanted by their own image.

Reply 9 Likes

WOW... really great article! When I have read the title I was allready preparing to write rather critiques.... but after a few passages it was clear that your writing was brilliant!

Here are some thoughts of mine:
- Yes.... both are IDOLIZING and are P*** worshippers ! One party more than the other. Very well how you explained that and the difference in level of worship/ idolizing! What I can add that fornicotarsadditionally are damaging women (more)....

- Incels are having a very tough time and are facing huge troubles and pain. In the eyes of most worldly women they are worse than trash or a bum :(! Oftentimes they are facing huge abusive behavior from women, which "normies" dont even know it exists. I remember Roosh wrote an article "women are absuive when not socialy constrained", which explained that very well. I think the "Jezebel Spirit" enforces many women to stomp on them or even destroy them! HOWEVER this also offers a huge chance for INCELs to seek GOD :)! Btw... Apostle Paul was also oftentimes abused and humilated (just as Christ) for preaching the GOSPEL....

- Many people "press" Incels (and unmarried man/ MGTOWs) unto marriage / relationships and even religios people use the passage that they don't follow GODs commandment ".... to be fruitfull and multiply...." and even humilate them even more. However.... this commandment was BEFORE the fall, so right now there is nothing wrong being single, if you serve GOD....

- Very nice that you shared your experience with the man who tried PUA Game and failed and afterwards get his acts together so to say :)))! When we think back, we can recognize how GOD reached hands to us and wanted to help us out, but we didn't recognize it! I encourage all guys to ask the LORD to show you these kind of crossroads .... it can strengthen your FAITH :)! I do this all the time.... and see Visions and memories of situations where GOD was invisibly functioning behind the scenes!

- I again feel sorry for the guys who are struggling and are in "INCEL mode".... So many odds are stacked against them :(! GOD created women to help, not to destroy :(. But there is HOPE! Worst scenario if they start to hate on women and promote slogans like "AWALT!" and identify with movements like "SlutHate"! Doing this they open doors to deamons which are hard to get ridd off.... They are brilliant women out there, but once filling your house with hate or anxiety,they will scare them off so easily and decrease their chances to mate their missing part!

- The Jezebel Spirit is truly strong....
If you want, watch the movie Basic Instinct 2 and see what happened to a STRONG man (he was not a player IMO), once "she" turned the tables. He was under a spell so to say, lost his identity and turned nuts....
We must destroy the ilusion and Satans facade. Every man should realize that he is made in the IMAGE OF GOD, and that he HAS value.... he has the GOD GIVEN POWER to create LIFE! Don't be decieved by women who act as pawns of Satan!

- Also this is very interesting: It seems that GOD has way more sympathy towards Incels than towards fornicators! GOD hates fornicators and killed thousands of them in the Old Testament....
However the scenario you described, that Incels wish that Society will burn to the ground, so that their chances will increase seems to be predicted by GOD, and it looks like he is feeling some kind of gratification:

12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. 13 The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people. 14 The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses. 15 What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord God of hosts.

16 Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: 17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts. 18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon, 19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, 20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, 21 The rings, and nose jewels, 22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins, 23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails. 24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty. 25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war. 26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground.

- Isaiah 3

THhank you for this great article. It might provoke some to anger at first.... but we know thats usual, concerning the truth. First anger and bitterness and oftentimes avoidance.... but afterwards sweetness. Exact the opposite to the way the Devil :)!

Good that you reminded the Incels that they are also on a wrong path and have to clean up their house and cut off bad branches! Thats tough love that can correct their paths!

Keep up your good work.... you are a lampstand in these dark times! God bless you!

Reply 3 Likes

click to expand...

The modern life also has an idolatry of self. People are making their social media accounts as a temple to idolize themselves. Its wall is filled with endless selfies and images capturing themselves and anything that they do. People are so enchanted by their own image.

hmmm .... interesting comment "Joy_grace" :)))!

It seems that very few people notice that!
Even huge Christian YouTube channels constantly use these "ClipArts" and images, portraying (fully) worldly people as some kind of "ideal). There might be a huge danger behind it. These Videos are probably influenced by the enemy.... and causing problems like comparisons and inferiority complexes within humble believers who don't "match" the ideals showed in these clips and images.... which are rather unnatural und unrealistic....

What you think about that?
Didn't GOD command not to make any images? Or was that just concerning images of himself and the heavenly realm? Even if its just concerning the heavenly realm, YT channels like "Lion of Juda", "Grace for purpose" are still violating this law.... they all the time show ("impressive") clips of angels, deamons etc.... This could "backfire" very soon!

I mean it definatly HELPS for worldly people to grasp spiritual concepts. But we know that GOD will screen/ filter/ test everything and everybody on this earth, in the end times!

Reply 1 Like

click to expand...

The term incel seems to get thrown out a lot nowadays. Often directed at men who aren’t losers desperate for fornication. just guys who simply don’t want to be vagina beggars on the plantation anymore and voice their objections to the modern poisonous dynamic.

Reply 3 Likes

The term incel seems to get thrown out a lot nowadays. Often directed at men who aren’t losers desperate for fornication. just guys who simply don’t want to be vagina beggars on the plantation anymore and voice their objections to the modern poisonous dynamic.

They try to put different people who they dislike into the same box. So as to dismiss genuine arguments by making strawmen.

Reply 4 Likes

The modern life also has an idolatry of self. People are making their social media accounts as a temple to idolize themselves. Its wall is filled with endless selfies and images capturing themselves and anything that they do. People are so enchanted by their own image.

A fitting quote from Saint Theophan:

This is the law: Abandon everything that is dangerous to the new life, whatever ignites passions, brings vanity and extinguishes spirit. And how many such things there are! Let the measure of this be each person's heart, sincerely seeking salvation without deceit and not only for show. Now is the time to cease from all theaters, balls, dances, music, singing, travels, strolls, acquaintances, jokes, sarcasm, laughter, and idle time.

Via:

Reply 3 Likes

click to expand...