Is Internet Game Hurting Men?

I can no longer deny that internet game is becoming an important and often principal source of bangs for many American men. Consider that there are men who get more notches than me every year from the internet alone but can’t make a day approach to save their life. They are successfully using a new technology to solve the old problem of getting laid.

But there is no free lunch—you must give up something in order to gain something. In exchange for gaming on the internet, men lose several masculine skills that players a half generation before them still retain:

  • They become more slavishly dependent on technology
  • They become copy-and-paste automatons
  • They have lower confidence since they never developed the proper ball size to cold approach women
  • They become more dependent on their looks to build initial attraction, meaning it will be hard for them to score higher than their appearance
  • They remove a big chunk of the pleasurable hunting aspect of game, making it more about the singular sex act

I’m not saying that internet game doesn’t take some game for you to be successful, since you definitely have to know what you’re doing on the first date, but we have to be honest that gaming a girl who already pre-screened you on the internet after you paste her your favorite clown lines is not the same as gaming a girl you just approached. The manual gamer has more skills that allow him to instantly succeed in any environment, while the internet gamer needs a smartphone and computer before he can put in his attempts, especially if internet game is not merely a supplement to his night or day efforts.

Several years ago, when Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire got caught using steroids, some commentators asked if an asterisk should be by their name when it came to publishing home run records. I wonder if internet gamers should have such as asterisk next to their notch counts. A guy who got 100 notches from day game and a guy who got it from Tinder can be so different in terms of skills and ability that the notch metric absolutely fails to offer any meaningful sort of comparison between the two men.

At the same time that I complain about the internet, I can’t deny the trend of Western society that promotes technological ease over real effort. If anything, internet game among men will only grow as the already technologically addicted post-millenials of today enter their 20’s. The cold approach will be seen as an archaic display of masculinity that feminist campaigns will label as “harassment,” one step away from criminalization. Soon we may not have a choice but to use internet game to meet women. If I had money to invest in game stock, I would put most of it in the internet and day sector while shorting the night sector.

Until technological singularity is realized, I’m skeptical about internet game, even though I dabble on Badoo from time to time. For better or worse, nothing makes me feel more masculine than walking out of my dwelling with zero prospects and finding a juicy deer that I shot and dragged back home. Internet game is like hunting that deer after it got drunk on fermented nectar that fell from its favorite tree. Sex is still sex either way, and this could just be my ego talking, but the hunt that takes place before is important to me, and anything that reduces that tension and action should be minimized.

By saying all this I feel like a senior citizen complaining about kids who walk on his lawn, but such is the case with incredibly rapid changes we’ve seen to game in only a decade, mostly thanks to technology. Nonetheless, I prefer to game the old fashioned way.

Read Next: Patricia’s Smartphone

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Vin
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Vin
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I think a well rounded playa should have a experience in all 3 avenues, day gaming, night gaming, and internet.

fox28
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fox28
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I don’t like the lag time that online dating provides. i.e, messeges

Brianmark
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Brianmark
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Internet Game works better for women than men. It allows them to get all the attention they’d ever want without leaving the safety of their home. Men waste a ton of time and get less in return than ever. I’m a dinosaur, I do my gaming the old fashion way: in person!

Johnny
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Johnny
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The only way to go is copy and paste, and dont be afraid to get a little outrageous because you want to stand out from the crowd.

'Reality' Doug
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'Reality' Doug
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Actually, that applies to platonic social relations including making money. It takes a different kind of skill to stand out well online.

Phil
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Phil
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Roosh
What are some good sites for American guys to use for pipelining in EE?

Phil
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Phil
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Couple of thoughts after reading this-
Roosh should write an online game
Book full of copy and paste things that actually work.

What EE city had the most talent and densest layout (plenty of full pedestrian walking areas most times of day) for day game?

Leopard
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Leopard
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Sorry but this is bullshit.

Internet is just a faster way to find women that like you. Why should you play on “hard mode” when you can play on “very easy” ? Ok this is a bad comparison because when I play videogames I always play on “hard” because there is no challenge if not. BUT picking-up girls is not fun. This is work. And I would rather work on “very easy” than “hard”.

Why going from Paris to Berlin by plane when you can go by foot ? Why don’t you go to foreign countries by foot ? Tell me, why do you take the plane ??

Sure there is 2 types of men :
– The ones that enjoy the chase. For them internet is shitty.
– The ones that just want to have the reward (i.e. sex and/or affection). For them internet is the messiah.

Also 1 of the downside of the internet : the quality is garbage. Fat girls, girls with real mental issues, misfits, etc.

seth datta
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seth datta
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In the past, many acceptable women were around. now they only make up less than ten percent of the population, if even that. Athe disgusting women above you describe is society at large, though it is perhaps true the few hot ones don’t post as they already have lots of offers of dick and are getting plugged by some of them already at the same time or during the same week.

'Reality' Doug
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'Reality' Doug
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The trick is to develop character yet to employ new technology. The loss of character as an issue is only evident to older men who have seen the long run. There are pros and cons. Convenience can be easily used to make oneself less rather than more. That is what women do with liberation. Fear of convenience is a healthy fear to have up to a point. There is no exact way to define that point, and each man has his own circumstances.

Chode
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“picking-up girls is not fun. This is work.”

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Gaming women is exhausting for the average man. Roosh has a passion or it, that why he does it. Most men would rather avoid it if they could.

digra
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digra
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“Most men would rather avoid it if they could” – men whose balls haven’t descended during early development. Who will barely stand up for themselves, and will NEVER achieve something they can be truly proud of…. IOW, Beta men.

Approaching and gaming women is, apart from anything else, survival instinct kicking in. Because, believe me, if you’re not gaming, you’re being gamed.

Every day in the jungle, a lion knows it must run faster than all other lions and the slowest gazelle, or it will starve. A gazelle knows that it must run faster than the fastest lion, or it won’t survive. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a gazelle or a lion: when the sun is up, you better be goddamn running.

sharp
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sharp
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What a load of nonsensical, pseudo-intellectual babble.

digra
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digra
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I don’t need your agreement to know I’m right. So your projection is redundant.

I’m not knocking the value of the internet, and fair play if you can get laid effortlessly through online game – what I say is, rely exclusively on it at your own peril.

The lion that doesn’t chase the gazelle will have to
depend on the good will of game keepers to feed itself, and if it doesn’t build itself up to be once again the predator it was made to be by nature, vultures will have their keen eyes on it.

Mantastic
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Lifting weights isn’t fun either.

Neither is hard martial arts training.

Nor starting your own wealth-generating business.

These things are all epic hard and patently unfun.

But there’s just something about them that makes a man a man in a way that phoning it in by skipping the gym, never learning how to defend oneself, and spending half a century sitting under florescent lights in a cubicle farm just can’t.

Dawson Stone
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If you could take a pill that would allow you have a perfect body with zero negative side effects or you could choose to workout 10 hours a week which would you choose?

If you could be like Neo and watch a video of Bruce Lee and immediately become a master in a martial art versus 20 years of training 10+ hours a week which would you choose? I was a college wrestler, and have done BJJ and Judo competitively so I know what is required to succeed.

If you could win the lottery and be a gazilionnaire instead of studying and working for years to gain skills and ability to convert into income which would you choose?

We go to the gym and study a martial art and work/study because there is no short cut to achievement. You can’t take a pill like in the movie Limitless and be a super genius capable of anything.

Life is short and there are so many areas where short cuts don’t exist but in getting laid there is a HUGE short cut called the Internet. To not take advantage of it is silly and a waste of time.

In college they call it cheating…in business we call it “best practices”

Mike
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Yes, you can take short cuts, but you won’t appreciate it as much. To add to your analogies: “Would you rather gain your own wealth, or be a useless trust fund baby who never worked a day in his life.” Sure, maybe you inherited money and never have to work, but you’re really just a worthless piece of shit who doesn’t properly appreciate what he has.

Meeting a woman in person (not on the internet) is far more rewarding, and makes you appreciate the experience much more. Of course easy sex is nice, but it’s infinitely more rewarding when you had to work for it. You can deny it until your face turns blue, but deep down you KNOW that meeting a girl on the internet is taking the easy way out. You know that you’re settling, and that it’s far less exciting than approaching her in the street and having sex with her.

Dawson Stone
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Your trust fund example is a good one actually and to me the one exception where I totally agree with you. I would feel like garbage if I didn’t make my own way financially.

But I guess on the rest we will have to agree to disagree. I have done it both ways and I find it FAR more satisfying to have sex more frequently and with more beautiful women than the slog of offline approaches where the deck is stacked against me.

sharp
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sharp
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Exactly. I’ve never at all understood the “thrill of the chase”. You have to be a real sucker for punishment to enjoy that shit.

My ideal arrangement is a rotating platoon of hot bitches knocking on my door, ready and willing to fuck, like unpaid escorts.

“Gamers” would rather go “hunt”. Lol, whatever.

Eye on the prize, gentlemen.

Mike
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Mike
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You’ll understand the thrill of the chase when you bang a super hot girl that you met in the day time or in a night club. You need more experience, son

BrazilianGuy
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“when you bang a super hot girl that you met in the day time or in a night club”

Let’s be realistic. Unless you are an outstanding good looking or popular guy in that nightclub scene, the probability of that happenning is absurdely low.

The Night Porter
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Picking up girls is, indeed, fun – often more fun than the sex, which for anyone but a teenager holds little novelty. Your perspective is that of someone who thinks his life is easier than in the past but who is simply less alive than men of the past. You have been diminished but don’t even know it. Meeting girls is the very opposite of work – which is why men traditionally do it, you know, after work.

Will
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Will
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it depends on how much fullfillment you want from the relationship.

Internet gaming and relationships come with a stigma attached

anonymous
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anonymous
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That’s an interesting thought. Please explain what you more more thoroughly.

USSA Today
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USSA Today
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Always remember a lot of the bottom feeder behaviors are Anglosphere bitch issues. Want away from lame women- leave the Anglosphere.

BrazilianGuy
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BrazilianGuy
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I live in Brazil and almost everything written here applies to my city (Sao Paulo). Maybe because it is the most westernized city of Latin America.

preppin
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You gotta have real game, both night and day, no matter how much you rely on the Internet to find targets. Internet Gamers make get the sales appointment, but generally lack the skills to close the deal. Consequently IG’ers may see action, but not get action.

I’d rather get out there and get beat up on the battlefield and escalate to close as quickly as I can. IG is front-loaded with time wasting activities to satisfy the expectation of women on dating sites. They expect dates, lengthy conversations, extensive shit testing, and the equivalent of a relationship vetting. I’m a busy guy and don’t have time for all that B.S. Why spend even 10 hours (not to mention the expense) on PoF or OkCupid when I can find a target, approach, escalate and ejaculate all in the span of 2-4 hours? Sperm on her face is like ink on a contract for her to commit to more of the same.

That just takes way too long and is too convoluted a process on the Internet, IMHO.

Leslie Saunders, Protestant
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Leslie Saunders, Protestant
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There ARE two types men. Fuck, the degradation of our language, particularly by native speakers, is jarring.

Dawson Stone
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“Sure there is 2 types of men :
– The ones that enjoy the chase. For them internet is shitty.

– The ones that just want to have the reward (i.e. sex and/or affection). For them internet is the messiah.”

I couldn’t agree more with you here.

From the article what I DON’T agree with:

“They remove a big chunk of the pleasurable hunting aspect of game, making it more about the singular sex act”

That’s like saying to the cop about to kick in a perp’s door, “If you were a real man you wouldn’t need that bullet proof vest and kevlar helmet.”

seth datta
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Isn’t internet gaming the future? All women have smartphones in western societies and they usually live by them – it’s more important than any man or pets in her life. Especially younger women who have been conditioned to have their smartphone on them at all times. So, in an era where laws are getting so useless that soon a bad approach in day game will become ‘sexual assault’, Internet game will be the way unless it is also outlawed as assault (with the totalitarian direction society is taking, who knows what is going to go down!)

One thing is sure, whilst our parents and grandparents generations avoided many of the consequences of their social actions (mass divorce etc..) we will not avoid such consequences. literally, we will see consequences of today’s actions in ten years time, then five, then zero as the west collapses and is restructured. This means that social behaviour today such as mass promiscuity, hypergamy and no consequences (including no fault divorce on the part of women etc) will result in a society of thuggish poorly socialised children because the adults failed them. And this will manifest economically as the west goes broke and is overrun by migrants because people did not care to do society saving actions, such as having well brought up children. This is behaviour designed by others to destroy the west, and the people for the most part deserve it for having played along.

So coming back to the original issue, I see that internet game has been the go to game for many guys for awhile. It will increase in popularity as laws become more extreme and women use social media to screen, as they are of the interconnected generation. This is a bad thing I have to argue, as not only will women put in less effort, but men have gotten weaker too and will accept their lower contributions. Not only that, but if club game is for the richest and best looking, and as day game declines due to lower results (hence why Krauser and co go to Russia), having the one source of game may not pay off for most guys, as we see hypergamy and princess power to the max. Even Paul Janka knows the score as he has seen the future and decided to get married, of all things. Players will become rarer and so will top notch pussy (let’s just forget about quality women, as they will become like unicorns).

Everyone walks around on sunny days at the weekends as if everything is okay. Like we are not carrying toilet paper in our wallets. Or having DHS, illegals, other law enforcement and even other folk literally surrounding us, as we all PAY for this shit! paying for our own demise! I tell you what, with the true population of England being 20% more than gov stats, on an island with few resources! The English are now slaves as they cannot kick em out, cannot kick the bankers out ever again. they are the fascist fourth reich. You can only leave them and go elsewhere. I have heard EE and Russia is good. certainly it was when I was there. South America has it’s good points too. but I am betting in the not too distant future they will be better posey paradises than the west where you mortgage your soul to bankers for and ever dwindling piece of the pie. Not only that, but the only action many western men will be getting in future will be of theives stealing their shit, jail cells, and uber hypergamous and obese women with diseases, where they consider you lucky for a pity fuck.

Spaniard
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There’s a sense and meaning to these things, Roosh.

The overall quality of girls online is the lowest of the the three (day game, night game, and online game). Online game takes zero balls, hence, it’s chode central, and this means the lowest quality girls, overall. Night game takes more balls than online game, but less than day game, so the quality is in between. Day game takes the most balls, and hence, the quality is greatest.

While I’m not a fan of internet game, I second the other poster’s comments, Roosh, “Online Bang,” sounds like it would make a viable internet offering, and if your prediction is correct, it could end up being your book with the most longevity. Also, you should trademark “Bang,” if possible.

TyKo Steamboat
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I’ve really only been online for about 5 years….
Hard to think of dating otherwise. Without the internet & 1 other website, I don’t know how I would have met so many Eastern European women that have enriched my life & given me a different outlook on the female species. Truly this tool will make my future a little brighter in terms of selection of companionship or fun now & later.

Without this, i’d be close-minded to the world beyond me like my peers in the Mid-West….slowly dying inside as they think that a 20-pound overweight, cigarette-smoking, tattooed female with at least 1 illegitimate child from another man is their only options in life as if nothing else existed.

Being subtle & conservative is the best online method along with some trail & error bait methods one teaches himself along the way. Human interaction is crucial, which is why moderation & a healthy balance of day game is now more important than it has ever been in the past.

Johnny
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Tyko,
Youre in the UA, and from your comments I gather that you are a refugee from the smartphone, police state, cupcake factory cunt fest that is Team Murica’.

For EE pipelining and online dating who has some decent sites?

TyKo Steamboat
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Johnny, I know you are interested in EE women. I would be happy to divulge to you some of my methods which took me 1 year to figure-out on my own. Send me a private e-mail & I can tell you the only single thing you will need to do to wake-up every morning with an inbox full of messages from 25 year-old Slavic women.

Johnny
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Johnny
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Cool Tyko.
E-mail to- [email protected]

Ternarydemon
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I agree that day gaming is a superior hunting experience than Internet gaming.

However, once a couple years pass after you finish college, and even more if you are a 9-5 corporate slave in an office park, internet gaming becomes an important -if not the only way- to have a constant pipeline of new prospects.

Johnny
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Johnny
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Why online only?

Do you think people think you are too old to go cold approaching randomly?

Ternarydemon
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Approaching in my suburban office complex would be insane. Not only are most women are overweight/old/ugly, but the few who are young/hot are validated 24/7 by their corporate beta shmucks orbiters. I admit that I have to give day gaming a try, but it would be only during weekends.

Johnny
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Johnny
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Are you on the East Coast?

Ternarydemon
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Ternarydemon
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Haha worse.

Bilzerian
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Bilzerian
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You forgot to mention the quality, it is way worse too.
The top % hottest chicks have no incentives whatsoever to get online. And neither should the top% men…

C.Contrary
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The man who relies mainly or wholly on internet game can never equal the success of the veteran player who relies on cold approaches in real life. The latter gives you real social skills, applicable Anywhere, so that you can game women Anywhere. The former may well turn you into a social retard, who gets pussy only because he is young (with time thus on his side) and handsome. I pull women Everywhere; a youngster brought up on OKC, POF, Tinder, etc., Cannot learn to do that.

Finally, the cold approach also carries over to success in business and in life generally: you learn to read people, to understand their body language and underlying motives. The net–with its lack of such rich human nuance–cannot teach you to do all that.

So, get off that fuckin’ iphone and approach!

Guest
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Unless they outlaw speaking to strangers in person. I will
continue to meet girls in person. The
best looking girls are not wasting their time on the internet. They don’t want to
filter through 500 Emails a day. Even if you internet game, you still have to
meet them in person because nobody has invented a way to get laid over the
internet yet.

Tom Dane
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Didnt want to try it since I’ve heard that a fat ugly girl gets about 100 posts a day, and a good lucking guy gets 1 a year.

So no, not going somewhere where things are this skewed.

C.Contrary
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Also, if you greatly value your time (as many men under 30 naturally don’t do), you’ll find that there is something absurd about waiting around to hear back from women you have never even met in real life.

And just because there’s mutual attraction via shared photos, it doesn’t follow that there will be attraction in real life. I’ve met with a number of women–sexy as hell on Tinder or whatever–who were utterly flat in real life. By contrast, when I cold approach during the day or at night, I know right off the bat whether there is real chemistry, and so whether the prospect is worth my time investment. Internet game by definition prevents that critical knowledge. And the result, in countless cases, is that you end up paying for face time (drinks on you) with a girl you won’t bang, even though she found you attractive on the web. Fuck that!

While a man is DTF if a girl is hot, most girls need some sort of contextual attractiveness, even if you are a very good looking guy. This proves the supreme value of game, and great social skills to that end: which the net, to say it again, is more likely to thwart than improve.

Dawson Stone
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If you value your time online is FAR SUPERIOR to meeting women offline. It isn’t even close.

If that’s not the case you simply aren’t doing it right.

So many of the things that a women is attracted to in a man are hidden to her when you meet in person but transparent when you meet online.

Shortest Straw
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By far the biggest structural problem with internet game is the fact that it takes little confidence to approach. Therefore, your biggest opportunity to demonstrate value is lost. This leads to the wildly skewed ratios, and low quality women, that people complain about. It’s a swamp of low quality, men and women, at least as far as initial perceptions are concerned.

The second biggest fundamental problem is that the written interface removes the majority of communication: tone, body language, and so forth. So it restricts you to the type of communication – words alone – that lead more to pair bonding than animal attraction.

The third issue is that forethought inherently is tied to pair bonding. Women don’t like “planning for promiscuity”. So they go into internet dating with the hamsterization that they are looking for Mr. Right. They even do this on Tinder, for God’s sake. Now, as guys have noted, it’s really easy to charm the pants off them anyway, but you have to put up this constant pretense of pair bonding. There’s a magic to the fresh meet in which things can turn sexual very fast; there’s a rationality to typing that somehow negates that possibility. Even on Tinder – you still have to pretend you’re “dating”. This ain’t no Grindr.

However, in addition to simply giving you more experience in the comfort and seduction phases, online game can help you develop a couple of other areas. One is you can carefully craft how you present yourself. When the presentation works, carefully work to internalize that. It becomes inner game.

Similarly, you can develop a cocky attitude, playing around with what you can get away with. You learn directly that supplicating doesn’t work. You can fine tune negs, for example; you’ll learn just how subtle and deniable they need to be.

Finally, you can get access to women that you would otherwise never encounter. All these are useful, but if it’s your primary method of getting lays, you’re stunting your own development.

KL
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KL
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You once wrote: “all boners are equal in the eyes of god”. Do you text and phone? Do you use language instead of clubbing women over the head? Do you think Fisto cleaned up in the Philippines using live approaches in Tagalog, or do you think he pipelined over the internet?

Infantry
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Infantry
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Blackdragon got it right on this. He was against ‘Getting laid doesn’t count unless you do it through this harder method’ arguments.

The point of game is to attract women and get laid period. Who cares if you day game, night game, social circle game etc?

Results are all that matters. You can complain about how online game is useless after the internet goes down in the apocalypse, but then your night game will be redundant as the neatherthals using Caveman game will rise to prominance in a spectacular re-enactment of Planet of the Apes

Guest
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Unless they outlaw speaking to strangers in person. I will continue to game in person. I don’t believe the best looking girls are wasting their time on the internet. They don’t want to filter through 500 Emails a day. Even if you internet game, you still have to meet them in person because nobody has invented a way to get laid over the internet yet.

Chode
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The percentage of the population using online tools to hookup is increasing rapidly, at almost all age levels. It is what it is. In-person game is becoming a dinosaur strategy. Furthermore, how else is a man supposed to get the attention of women who live on their i-phones and cannot be away from Facebook for more than 5 mins? As men, we need to work with what we got. The population of young women is devolving rapidly. In-person game only works on women who have social skills. I wouldn’t say that the current generation of young women have well-developed social skills. As a matter of fact, I would say their social skills are piss-poor.

In order to be effective using in-person game, the women you’re approaching must have some substance and be receptive to in-person interactions. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the average young woman is quite socially retarded, and socially impotent without her cell phone. Trying to interact with her in person as a stranger is quickly becoming a losing strategy. For better or for worse, the vast majority of people in the future will use the internet for all sexual encounters.
Roosh: You and I are roughly of similar age. We remember a time where you could effectively interact and bed young women via person to person interactions. Those days are rapidly fading. People are becoming dependent on their phones and the internet for almost all things in their lives, including dating.

I’m not saying don’t approach women in person. I’m just saying that over time this strategy is becoming less and less effective because the target women are becoming less and less receptive to it.

BrazilianGuy
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Couldn’t be better said.
Nowadays it is becoming increasingly impossible to develop conversations with beautifil young girls in “real world”.
Internet will be (maybe it is already) the way that most social interactions occur, be it in business, sex, politics or whatever…

E.
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E.
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Asterix on internet game? A bang is a bang. Many men cannot be that picky about where they get it.
I understand your feeling, but some skills -like many craftsmanships- will be lost sooner than we think. All this romantic hunter thing is OK, but your environment is everything, and certain environments are not a forest to hunt any more (I just remember your last time in DC as I write this).

seth datta
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Seeing as more men are being born than women and the younger gen being well outnumbered by the older, not to mention mass immigration of usually men and societal shit, the forests to hunt will be restricted to the wealthy sell outs of the upper class and UMC. They themselves will dwindle in numbers with the barbarians at the gate. So essentially, we will end up starving for hot quality poosey. Whatever is available will have been tapped out by tons of guys and won’t be looking hot, so the future looks grim.

Broseph
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Further driving up the price of an already over-inflated commodity.

Johnny
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Johnny
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Whats the red pill mans end game with all that 1984 bs going down???

Expat, or build a cabin in the woods off the grid?

Foreign dude
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Foreign dude
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Personally, I have been quite succesful with online game and WITHOUT copy-pastying the same lines to different girls. I personalize my approach for every girl because it’s more fun to me, because I’m lucky to have enough time for it, and because in the end it works better.

Another great thing about online game is that offer ME (not only the girls) a chance to screen, pursuing only the ones that I deem interesting/attractive enough, including their personalities. From a girl’s profile I can easily understand if we’ll have any kind of meaningful conversation or if she is just too dumb for that (and I don’t usually approach dumb girl, they turn me off). It’s also valuable to know beforehand in what area she lives, what interests does she have and so forth. I guess I’m more the cerebral type…

Sure, my game may be less developed than it should; and yeah, day game is a lot of fun; but I wouldn’t be too harsh on online game. Online game is here to stay and it would be savvy for all men to become somewhat proficient at it.

One thing I can’t stand is night game. It’s simply not for me, I never liked clubs and such.

mv
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mv
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Ross Jeffries once said about night game: “Bars and clubs suck – they’re where women go to get free drinks and men go to get rejected. I don’t do them.”

His kind of NLP game would never work in a distracting environment like a bar or club, so he was naturally predisposed to avoiding them, but he’s even more correct today – night game, at least in America, has jumped the shark.

As for online game, it can still be a useful component and its use will vary with location, target market and user profile. If you’re looking for young Asian women in northern Montana, you’re probably going to get nowhere with approaches so online game is your only bet – even then the prospects would be limited, but you see my point.

Also, for an older guy (40+) online game is the best way to find sugar babies. The women who frequent sugar daddie sites are at least honest about what they’re after, thus the pool is pre-screened for the guy out to lease an 18 year old for a week or two, maybe more. Remember guys, if it flies, floats or fucks, it’s always cheaper to lease it.

Plus, at this point in his life, an older guy has probably already developed social skills and is at less risk of becoming a World of Warcraft basement dweller with no friends in real life.

Finally, do not discount what you can learn from an online profile – everything from analysis of her photos to her (stated) stats to the details and writing style of her paragraph can tell you a lot about her priorities, education level, degree of narcissism, etc. It will save you a boat load of time and assist you in better crafting your own message to the market. Speaking of markets, if the market responds better to online game for you than does cold approaches, you really have to go where the action is. So don’t fight it, adapt to it.

Lee
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Lee
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Copy pasting works really well for me. I use the same 2 lines everytime and my opener works 80% of the time. I use pof for online stuff and I only message new users while they are logged in. My line is…

Hi, how are you? Inbox blowing up on you yet?

Chick mentions how shes getting 300 messages an hour…I then say

Damn…george clooney could message you and you probably wouldn’t notice…lol.

They agree here. Then I talk about how all the guys would never even be confident to throw her a random high five. Its basically a done deal here. I number close.

Do you think a personal line, rather than a copy paste, is really that much better??? Or is it just more entertaining to make a more personal statement???

Lee
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Lee
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Women have seen enough movies and tv shows that they are sold on the belief that a man will “sweep her off her feet” when she least expects it. That doesnt happen when a lady gets online and screens 400 messages a day and meets at a man at bar. Its too fake.

Day/night game will always be more rewarding to men and will yield better results. As a man…I see online dating as a way to meet chicks you might never meet, but it is secondary to running real world game. With all the beta men with no game moving online cause there’s no risk of embarrassment, I see a potential situation where 10 years from now I will kill it with young ladies due to the fact that no guy in their age group will even know how to game a chick.

rms
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rms
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Ah, but you can offset the “lack of romanticism” by having a ton in common with somebody. You both play the piano, you both are from the Southeast, you both love the same French restaurant that hardly anybody else knows about… And you know this going in! Yes, it’s less organic, but the trade is that you can head into a first date with 20 strategic talking points, 4 “natural” funny anecdotes, and you also can pick venue/s that match the girl’s personality best.

Lee
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Lee
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Good comment. I think those are valid points. I only use online game to fill the pipeline. When I run online game I always number close early…like 5 messages in. And I really dont try to figure that stuff out. I just set up a meeting at a bar/club where i will already be anyways and I make it happen. So im guessing 5 text messages tops. I do very well this way but I never get the thrill like i do out of night/day game. Ill give your method a try and see how it works better.

rms
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rms
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With the way that night game has died so quickly and so completely (seriously – night game is D-E-A-D) I feel that internet game is legit. Day game is the “new night game” and internet game is the “new day game”, if that makes sense.

Will
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Will
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I like this

invisiblehand85
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invisiblehand85
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Always insightful

Matxoman
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Matxoman
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If Roosh says it is, better not argue against it or he’ll ban you from his blog like a little bitch…

Rudebwoy
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Rudebwoy
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If you have seen the old cows that get love online, you would never do online game again. Men are thirsty and twice as thirsty online.
Roosh is dead on, internet game favours women period. Why would yon play into that, I am referring to North America.
Internet highlights the problem of western society.

a dog
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a dog
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I couldn’t get a date online to save my life! A whale sometimes lands ashore on my beach… I call the authorities to take her away. But let me tell you, on the streets this short, fat, old guy can pull and bed beautiful young girls that wouldn’t give me the time on day online. Online dating is for the ascetically pleasing man.

Mike
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Mike
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I’m not fat and old yet (37, very good shape, average face), but I’m definitely going to shave several years off my age on the next dating site I sign up for.
Even here in Eastern Europe (Bulgaria) it’s been rare that I get a response from a woman under 30 (even after getting a ton of “likes” after I changed profile photo a while ago), so too many of my dates have been with women in their 30s. And with not as much tradition for one night stands here as in the West, the ones who are looking for husband material (not me yet) – most of the single women in their 30s – screen me out on the first date, and I don’t see them again.
The handful of women I’ve fucked from online dating here have been either divorced single mothers and the few under 30 (mid 20s actually) girls whose attention I did manage to capture.

It’s probably going to be day and night game for me here if I somewhat consistently want women of the age and looks I know I can get if their first impression of me is face to face and not a few photos, descriptions and my age on a profile page.

But as technology and tech culture keeps progressing, I imagine there might come a day where even a substantial portion of the very attractive women might be doing online dating. But by then I might be 50+ and face to face and a healthy dose of immediate charm will almost certainly be the only chance I’ll still have of getting the attention of women much under 40.
Or one of those sugar daddy sites someone else mentioned above, but I think I’d just as well make a direct transaction with a hooker instead (something I’m not adverse to now either during dry spells).

Kingsley Davis
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Kingsley Davis
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Yes Roosh.

“Nothing will change the fact that all of the women on dating sites are what you might call “hard to place”… as in the adoption term for older children of questionable backgrounds with bad habits and other undesirable traits. The women on these sites are desperately trying to deny that they are either dateless losers or being passed around as a whore because nobody wants to keep them. It’s all an act. They are trying to appear as if they aren’t the type of girl who has to be on a dating site because they don’t attract a man in their day-to-day lives. And they are desperately trying to deny the type of man who does approach her on the site.

Oddly enough, this doesn’t hold true for the men. There is a much broader cross-section of all types of men. But they get one whiff of the freak-show and go, “No thanks!” Either that or they are ‘slumming’ for easy sex with women who can’t be too picky.

Remember that whenever you are dealing with a chick from a dating site. Perhaps it would be best to not look for women there. They are of low quality. They know they are of low quality but are doing everything they can to deny it. And, they assume that since you are approaching them, you must be of low quality also (aaaaahhh, gotta love that social proofing ).

You’ll have much better luck at the mall, if you know what you are looking for.”

http://no-maam.blogspot.com/2010/09/bonecrker-34-online-dating-not.html

digra
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digra
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Ain’t that the truth.

Since discovering the red pill about a year ago, I ditched meeting girls off the net altogether (met my last ex through plenty of fucks, and she was DT).

Fast forward since then, and I’m more active overall. May not get as many lays, but the approach is getting better, the red pill has taken root, and the quality of woman is increasing. Went back to online dating again recently to relieve some tension, and still I see active profiles and many faces I remember – from around 2 years ago. Call it carousel extension?

If their shit didn’t smell, they wouldn’t be there, would they?

ua2
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ua2
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I would like Roosh to expound upon museum or lecture game – a subset of day game. It works quite well in DC – I’m curious of Roosh has tried. I.E. at lectures at Brookings, CSIS, Atlantic Council, Carnegie Endowment, Phillips Museum, etc.

Will
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Will
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Gaming without the Internet gives the relationship you have with the girl a more healthy and organic feel.

Internet gaming is not natural and won’t be as fulfilling for either sex. Kind of like if you drink a ‘knock off’ version of a Gatorade it will taste good….but something’s off with it in the back of your head….

Brave New Man
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“Internet game is like hunting that deer after it got drunk on fermented nectar that fell from its favorite tree.” prophetic words indeed!

John Cool
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John Cool
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Internet almost never gives me much of anything and the ones I find on the Internet are mainly desperate 3/10 fatties. Approaching women in real life is so much better that it’s not even comparable in my opinion. Oh, and not to forget they don’t look like their photoshoped pics in real life.

Roman Bernard
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Roosh, there’s a typo: it’s Asterisk the Glyph, not Asterix the Gaul: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix ! wink

Roosh_V
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Roosh_V
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Fixed!

Claudio
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Claudio
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I’ve been thinking along these lines for a while now. I just went through my spreadsheet and I stopped being exclusively offline in mid 2007. Since then, 41.26% of my lays have come from some type of internet thing (Match, POF, OKC, Tinder, etc…)

If I look at my past 10 from this year, 5 of them have been from some sort of online activity.

Comparing to other years where I averaged between 10% and 20% lays from online stuff, 2014 is a testament to how much my real life game has suffered since I’ve had a GF for 7 months of this year, so that’s my excuse. hahaha

However, day and night game should be the way to go.

20th Level
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20th Level
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Count me as one of the old school guys that agrees with Roosh one hundred percent.

For me it is the thrill of the hunt and having life experiences worth remembering and talking about. Hell, I have been shot down in some of the most hilarious and creative ways imaginable….and don’t get me started on some of the high wire tightrope acts I’ve had to go through just to get laid.

For me all of that counts and “I met this chick on the internet ” just doesn’t cut it for a good life story.

NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!!….lol

jbird669
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jbird669
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Hell, I have been shot down in some of the most hilarious and creative ways imaginable….and don’t get me started on some of the high wire tightrope acts I’ve had to go through just to get laid.

Looking back, that was all fun for you?

jbird669
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jbird669
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They remove a big chunk of the pleasurable hunting aspect of game, making it more about the singular sex act

I’m not sure I’ve ever found the hunt pleasurable, only the act itself. I day approach as much as I game online.

NoName
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NoName
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Perhaps one of the best articles ever written

http://gettinbetter.com/needlove.html

uc4
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uc4
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Girls on the internet are qualitatively different than girls met in day game. You are much more likely to meet a slightly nerdy, shy, sweet gem in day game than online. And girls online are more likely to use you for free dinner and then ditch you. And girls you meet in person are impressed that you approached them so they treat you with more respect.

masterhalco
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masterhalco
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Women today don’t deserve and aren’t worth the time, effort and risk (massive embarrassment, snarky put down, harassment claim, etc) that a fresh face-to-face night or day “approach” involves. Do you really have that much respect for women that you will allow them to so much as look you in the face and give you so much as an eye roll? Do you get off on it? On the abuse? Cause I got news for you: They women do. So Fuck. That.

The hunting analogy is an apt one because the idea appears to be that using the internet is the same as going to one of those penned in hunting farms to shoot your load as opposed to just sitting in a deer stand waiting for 14 hours. It isn’t. Meeting girls online is just as hard if not harder than face to face approaches. The required subtlety, the utter looks-based shallowness, the movie star attention you have to fight thru just to be heard, the fact that of all the girls and women with online dating profiles only 10% are really interested in leaving the comfort of their tacky hovel to actually meet a guy who ISN’T george clooney. It’s far from a sure thing and it’s getting harder by the hour due to the insane sensitivity and skittishness of the modern woman regardless of her age. Scream “rape culture” and “war on women” in these chicks’ face nonstop for 10 years and–surprise!!– they become unapproachable squirrels!!

I don’t know where it came from (males raised by lesbian single-mothers probably) but apparently there’s this idea floating around (and reflected here) that to be rejected by a female is “manly”. What these hard core game guys seem to miss is that as a man, your life will be defined, dignified and enriched by those things that you choose to AVOID. Constant rejection facials by females is at the top of that list.

sharp
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sharp
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Hehe, rejection facials. Now there’s a frame-busting, not to mention remarkably fitting turn of phrase if I’ve ever read one. Nice post.

BlacksheepTony
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BlacksheepTony
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Kinda like baseball nowadays. Guys strikeout up to 200+times a year and thats considered ok(but its not). Back in the day players with low strikeout totals and high averages was a benchmark. So excuse my sports analogy but I always thought game was about having a high batting average with not alot of strikeouts. This volume dating strategy thats being pushed sets alot of men up to fail because if ur not seeing results your gonna get discouraged.whether its day game, night game or online gaming. A well rounded player should be successful in either Arena. Every mans situation Is diffrent, say u live In a city where the pickings are slim and the night life Is lame Internet dating might be an option.Anything you can do to avoid striking out alot is considered good game.

Painful Rectal Itch
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Painful Rectal Itch
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Interesting article. What I think has to be considered is what defines ‘internet dating’ ? The sites that are specifically designed for meeting others eg plenty-of-fat.com and other sites are the resource for garbage bin females. But you’d be surprised how men and women are using standard social media like facebook to try to hook up. Women post their half naked, poseur nonsensical selfies, and desperate men contact them with some lame excuse simply to establish communication with them.

Youonlyliveonce
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Youonlyliveonce
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Wait..what the hell is Internet game? Are we still freshman in high school?

Nick
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Nick
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A guy who knows game “in the field” will be able to transfer that skill set into different aspects of his life. Props to the guy who gets laid with hot women through Tinder, etc. but if he can’t also cold approach women anywhere he sees them, he’s selling himself short.

billyjack
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billyjack
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Little story that happened to me two weeks ago to back up your post. I was invited by a buddy to go to a pizza place. Supposed to be 10 people, but when I get there it’s just my buddy, and his friend that booked the table. We get introduced and he explains everyone has cancelled, but he has invited a hot girl he’s been chatting to on Tinder for 2 months. She shows, he’s got a group together so he’s not intimidated by having to see this girl in real life alone, so we all chat and have a good time. End of the night, guess what happens? That’s right, I totally snaked her from this pogue. She drove, insisted on driving us both home (we had cabbed), then, over his objections, insists on dropping him off first. Sweet victory, and proof that your early investment in the latest Android phone will only get you so far.

Solo
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Solo
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lol at you calling yourself a “buddy” to this guy. That’s foul

billyjack
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billyjack
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nope, was my buddy’s buddy. I’d just met him that night.

Dawson Stone
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You have to be kidding me?

Let me think, do I want to bang my head agains the wall really, really, really hard and often so I can say my head is tough? Why on earth would someone want to work HARDER to get laid than they have to?

Let me address one at a time:

– They become more slavishly dependent on technology
What does that even mean? Does ANYONE not have a smartphone and use it daily? When you cold approach a chick where do you put her number? Into your daytimer? Dude you have BOOKS on texting. And after getting her number do you send her a snail mail letter to see if she’s available on Wednesday?

– They become copy-and-paste automatons
The goal online is to reduce as much as possible the time wasted to get laid and to screen out the women that are lower value in terms of looks and other traits and to score the highest value woman with the lowest level of effort possible. The goal is to get face-to-face with the woman with the highest chance of closing as fast and painlessly as possible.

– They have lower confidence since they never developed the proper ball size to cold approach women
Ridiculous. You can’t get laid online. You have to meet the woman to have sex with her and if you aren’t super confident that will crush your numbers. I get laid because I am supremely confident in person.

– They become more dependent on their looks to build initial attraction, meaning it will be hard for them to score higher than their appearance
Again, I couldn’t disagree more. In fact the opposite is true. Offline the only thing a woman knows is what I look like and that maybe I opened her cleverly. She doesn’t know if I have a job, am married, have kids, am educated, etc. etc etc. Online all these things are known to her. Looks are actually the EASIER thing to be deceptive about online.

– They remove a big chunk of the pleasurable hunting aspect of game, making it more about the singular sex act

Again, do people really get pleasure from constant rejection? That’s like saying to the cop about to kick in a perp’s door, “If you were a real man you wouldn’t need that bullet proof vest and kevlar helmet.”

Online reduces friction of meeting women and if done properly sets up the power dynamic way better than any other method by MILES. For years I did it the hard way. I will NEVER go back.

john
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john
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Online is 110 percent looks……messages mean jack shit, pesonalized not personalized game no game

Western society is about aesthetics

john
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john
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It is more socially acceptable to do online dating than approach in day time….confidence by approaching doesn’t exist anymore

For average men 80 percent of us, you could message 10000000 chicks on pof and be lucky to get 1 fatty, seriously, seriously, not joking

In person is like being in the front line going into battle into gettysburg

if your average ur slaughter f’d

give up and make money

Dawson Stone
Guest

I closed ELEVEN new women in the month of September and ten of them I closed on the first date. None below a 7. ZERO chance you do that offline no matter how good your game is.

And while I am a decent looking guy, I am on average more than 25+ year older so it is definitely not about looks. I am successful but I am no Bill Gates.

Decide for yourself….

http://dawsonstone.com/september-recap/

Aesthetics
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Aesthetics
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Dawson, You are aesthetic. – This is what online does, it further separates the 20% from the 80 percent…..the guys who are not aesthetic online is a black hole while those more genetically gifted can get laid while sitting on the pot.

Guys are actually bad at telling what guys look aesthetic – some guys I think look average have chicks winking at them left and right online, while other guys I think are aesthetic have no success online.

The way the first date goes is also about aesthetics. It determines the amount of game you need on a first date. You can have no game on first date and get laid. This is also why some guys get naked pictures and others do not.

I will say however it is common for ppl to get first dates and not get seconds, online and number of options makes it so you have to have some tight tight game or just match her aesthetic perception when you meet. Most guys are seen unattractive in first five minutes of date though due to looks.

Dawson Stone
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Dude you give me way too much credit.

I am 2 1/2 decades older than most of the women I close. No way on Earth any of them score me above an 8 on looks and many probably lower.

It is what I do face-to-face and how I set up the power dynamic before we meet that wins the day.

I do certainly agree that if one is below average (by definition in the bottom half) across the board (looks, income, charm, etc.) then you are going to have a tough time regardless of your venue.

Although I would say that very few people will be below average if they actually try…workout out, grooming, ambition, etc.

BangkokSlim
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BangkokSlim
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For the Street Gamer, the internet is the lazy man’s guide to PUA….lol

Fkarl
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Fkarl
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Internet Game is more of a validation tool for average women and even it gives them a chance to fake a background or rational skills they are lacking in real life.
For men it may help them trial and error some lines but actually its time consuming if you have decent looks to face women in real.

Edd
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Edd
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“If anything, internet game among men will only grow as the already technologically addicted post-millenials of today enter their 20′s. The cold approach will be seen as an archaic display of masculinity that feminist campaigns will label as “harassment,” one step away from criminalization.”

Edd
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Edd
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The HUGE advantage of dating sites is that you can see and talk with thousands of girls within a small amount of time and pick the ones whom you know you’ll have the best probability of success. So you can click next, next..until you find a good match without losing any precious time as you would trying to seduce an egocentric feminist girl in a club that just wanna game you back. Does that make sense?

Also, you can find more variety of girls online, because lets be honest not all girls enjoy going to the club every weekend. Maybe you’ll find the more relaxed kinda girl who enjoy being at home and that is horny as hell too and that’s just looking for casual sex without having to mess with clubs and their social protocols.

The other big advantage is that virtual dates naturally escalate into 1 to 1 real dates with no cockblockers on sight, no friends, no moms. It’s all about you and her without any distraction. So you date a preselected girl that you know you have good chance with and you are better prepared before the date cause you already talked to her online and know what kinda girl she is, you can customize your game to her which further increases your rate of success. Does that make sense?

So if it makes you proud to fish on clubs, good for you, but for the rest of us that just wanna score, the internet is just the perfect “pre-selection tool” that makes things way more easy than it used to be.

BrazilianGuy
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BrazilianGuy
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Very good and that is the point.
Do you want to feel like Conan the Barbarian ? Go to expensive venues and try to seduce narcissistic-sociopathic drunk girls.
But if you only want…SEX…why not spending 20 minutes per day sending random messages? Some of the girls will answer…some will give their phone…and then it’s up to you.

NP
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NP
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Nowadays, especially in the states, cold approaching women in person can land you arrested. Cold approaching would be better IF the cunts these days would just flat out reject you to your face. The internet, loaded with fake profiles, 15-25 guys for every girl is on its way of collapsing as well as more and more men realize how badly the dice is loaded against them. Pretty soon the only avenue to sex is going to be prostitutes, and mail order brides unless your herd cattle and are “Set Up” ( Vomits in mouth) We enjoyed a long roaring period from the 60s to the mid 2000’s. Get ready for crushing Victorianism. 10 years from now, think 1850’s England.