Marriage Doesn’t Make Sense

You probably noticed that I haven’t waged war on marriage like many others in the manosphere. This is because my exposure to feminine women outside of the United States has shown me that marriage doesn’t have to end in divorce rape and a child custody nightmare. Yet even if I were to marry with a nice woman in a favorable environment, I fail to see how it would be a good bargain.

Marriage makes sense for the average man who doesn’t have the will or dedication to study game. Unless he finds a wife, he can go years without getting laid. Even a pathetic marriage where his wife only fornicates with him once a month is still better than his non-marriage alternative. Society will do its best to encourage this man to marry because it needs competent but unexceptional men to commit themselves to one woman, serve corporate masters to fulfill the consumer wants of their wives, and spawn children who will be obedient workers and compliant citizens.

The situation changes for the man who can get laid at will. What benefit will marriage provide him? There is no pleasurable sex act or emotion a married man receives that a bachelor doesn’t. To give up your freedom and tie yourself to one woman because you don’t want to hunt is a high-risk, low-gain pursuit that life accordingly punishes with blunt misery and torturous boredom.

A lot of players, in their open-mindedness towards marriage, cite their future as a reason they may one day settle down. They say, “I don’t want to be 45, prowling the clubs,” but clubs are not the only way to meet women. You can be a Mon-Fri working man and spend four hours on the weekend with day approaching. Even 45-year-old men have a near unlimited supply of 30-year-old spinsters and single moms to finagle commitment-free sex from. It’s not especially hard for him date girls 15 years younger, but it is hard to wake up next to a wife his age, every day, and allow her to be his only source of sexual pleasure.

How about when you’re 55 and near retirement? Your hip is bad and you can’t day game like you used to. Should you resign yourself to an elderly lady and evenings playing bingo? No—you should go to Southeast Asia or Colombia. Sponsor girls for a girlfriend experience. They will undoubtedly give you more “love” than a Western woman your own age.

Every time a high-quality man gets married, it’s not out of desire to legally obligate himself to a woman, but out of fear of loneliness and getting old. He thinks that a wife will alleviate these problems, but from my observation, they only make it worse. You haven’t met a lonely man unless you’ve met one married for over 10 years, detached from masculine social activities with no regular male friends he can confide in, reduced to tinkering in the garage not necessarily because he likes it but because he wants to spend time away from his wife, for a desire of loneliness. When it comes to aging, the only thing that can reduce a man’s sparkle and turn his face into a leathery shadow is a wife. I suspect the reason why married men live longer than their single counterparts is because of wives that force them to go to the doctor so they don’t lose their dutiful mules to the grim reaper.

I recently had a mini-relationship with an amazing girl ten years younger than myself. I’m still debating whether she was the number one or number two girl of my entire life. Spending time with her gave me incredible pleasure, but even then, there is no valid justification to marry her, because the price of trading my freedom can’t overcome being with one great person for the rest of my life. Even in our short relationship, I gradually lost my hunting drive and started to experience malaise. I lost motivation to exercise and take risks. I felt like I was being ushered into a zoo with regular sex feeding times that made me forget about how life was in the wild. I look in the face of long-term monogamy and I see the death of everything that made me who I am today.

So if marriage isn’t the answer, what is? The answer seems to be eternal bachelorhood. The answer is freedom. The answer is understanding that it does not get better for the modern man than banging a variety of attractive women with the occasional mini-relationship. Therefore man has two choices—learn game and be free or marry the next broad that tolerates him out of fear and laziness. My choice has been made.

Read Next: The Manipulated Man

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Jack
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The inevitable question of course is what if you genuinely want kids.

I grew up with parents that were and still are married, it’s the best environment for children.

I plan to move to another country and raise a family there, maybe in my 40s.

Daniel
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Daniel
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If you genuinely want kids, you can impregnate a young girl and play daddy part-time, and keep chasing tails around. You can be sure your girl will keep loving you, because for her you will always be a challenge, and that’s what women like.

Lemon
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Lemon
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There is no such thing as “playing daddy part-time” if you are a man with any balls. You either do it, or you don’t.

Daniel
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Daniel
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Kids don’t need your attention 24/7, come on.

Don
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Don
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Better yet, you will have a daughter and watch her get banged out by idiots like you. Karma is a bitch.

Daniel
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Daniel
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Man going out having fun (and once in a while getting laid too), while the lady stays home watching the kids, is something always happened in the human beings history. This is called FREEDOM. Kids have nothing to do with that. I’m not gonna give up my true male nature to please somebody who will desrespect me if I dare to show too much consideration for her, as this is the true nature of women – scientifically proven, not my theory.
I add this. In scandinavian societies, women have the *undeniable right* to go out once in a while to have fun and eventually take dick (most of the time from random latinos, africans or mideastern guys). IF the man DARES to complain in a way like, let’s say, raising the tone of his voice, woman can ask for divorce and fuck the man in the ass.
What you white knights gonna tell me now?

Mavwreck
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The “white knights” are going to tell you this – if you want kids, and care about those kids’ future, your best choice is probably marriage. Yes, it means sacrificing your freedom – however, if you’re not willing to make that sacrifice for your kids, I personally think you shouldn’t have any.

There’s a difference between spreading your genetic material and having kids you can be proud of.

Daniel
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Daniel
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Therefore you are sure you gonna marry a wonderful sweetheart who’ll make your life splendid, right? And tell me, what if she turns out being a nasty bitch and your marriage – and your life – becomes hell? Do you think your kids will be happy? I sincerly don’t.
And let’s quit this bullshit of the man who wants to spread his genes around, I sincerly think this theory is only one of many, there’s not any scientific proof of that. Most of the men who date multiple girls do that because they like the company of young, attractive girls, plain and simple, and I don’t think I should I explain you why.
We can stay here talking forever, but the truth is quite simple: players like having attractive girls around, and there’s nothing that can stop them doing that, not even a couple of wonderful children.
I may get married to a woman I love, have some kids I adore, but I will keep going around approaching pretty girls, and if they give me the possibility, I’ll bang them. Until I won’t be an old disgusting and impotent man, I’ll keep doing that. I don’t know if God will forgive me for the sinner I am, but that’s it.

Alex
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Alex
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You’ve already resolved to being a cheater without any guarantee that she’ll even become a ‘nasty bitch’.

Let’s be real here; you not wanting to stay faithful isn’t really about the fear of your wife becoming horrible. But because you want to still be able to sleep with multiple women, even if your wife actually turns out to be the best wife and mother.

When you cheat on a good and faithful woman, the true ‘nasty bitch’ will come out and she’ll probably divorce you, take half your assets and your children. Or even if you didn’t marry her, drag you to court until you’re up to eyeballs in child support payments.

Moral of the story: If you aren’t ready to commit to marriage and children, then don’t get married and don’t have children. Keep on with your player lifestyle until you can no longer get it up and viagra doesn’t work for you anymore, the young girls leave because you don’t have any more money and you grow old alone with no legacy. You cannot have it both ways. If you try, one aspect, most probably your marriage stability and consequently your children, are likely to suffer.

Max
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Max
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Daniel: Do not procreate. Get a vasectomy, for the good of all society.

Lemon
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Lemon
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I didn’t say 24/7. I said not part-time.

And what if their mom dies? Or disappears? I have several friends whose wives have done just that. The men stepped up and raised the kids single-handed, and by the way, they did a great fucking job. Proud to call them friends.

Men keep their commitments. Having a child is the ultimate commitment. Don’t do it if you aren’t ready, that’s all I’m saying.

Ray Wolfson
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living with the wife and kids sucks ass…. part time is a great option…. work an inconvenient 2-3 hour drive away, maintain a studio apartment close to your ‘work’, get her used to you not coming home every night….. be required to attend weekend conferences and business retreats… (aka. dropping E and partying all night with your soft harem)… come home to the wife and kids when it pleases…..

make random visits on week day nights to keep her on her toes, blow out weekends and do something else, treat the baby momma like a spinning plate…. at the end of the day she’s going to be busy with the kids and home… borrring…. and if she does stray she will have a hard time replacing the biological father, who is officially still in the loop…

you maintain your freedom, put the responsibility back on to her for remaining faithful, and give her the incentive and mechanism to do so, and if you have to call it quits, you are already largely separated and used to visiting the kids as it is….

this is an especially good option once she’s 45+ and unlikely to have more kids… and unlikely to meet some dream alpha that sweeps her off her feet.

Mavwreck
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The fact that you call her a “baby momma” tells me all I really need to know. Kids deserve a commitment. That phrase – and your whole idea – just proves you aren’t willing to give them that.

To be honest, I think a lot of people who share your point of view just don’t get it – the minute you have kids, it really isn’t supposed to be about you – _or your wife_ any more. It’s supposed to be about those kids.

Texas_Tryhard
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Texas_Tryhard
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“Supposed” is a word that idiots use to make arguments they can’t back up with logic.

Who says he’s “supposed” to do anthing? Society? You?

Mavwreck
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Well, yes, society and I do feel that way. smile

However, I think there’s logic to back it up. Human children take an incredible amount of effort to raise – more than most other species. The amount of teaching, providing, and protection needed is just HUGE if you think about it. If you’re not willing to make those kids your top priority you’re doing them a great disservice. You’re basically screwing over individuals who don’t have any choice in the matter or any way to protect themselves.

Also, you’re screwing over your own legacy – the one part of you that’s most likely to continue after you die.

Texas_Tryhard
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Texas_Tryhard
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You have no ownership of your child and she can take it away from you and choose to raise it herself. She also had all the choice in whether the fetus was kept in the first place. You have no rights to this child, therefor you have no responsibility to it either.

In a world where men have no power over their children, and no recourse if the woman decides to take it from you, taking care of your children has no reward. Only if you can take care of a child on your own terms do you have any responsibility to it. Anything else is just indentured servitude.

kEiThZ
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kEiThZ
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This is a recipe for socially degenerate children who resent you.
If you want healthy kids, you will have to give up the playa lifestyle. If you don’t want to do that, don’t have kids. The world doesn’t need more degenerates.

William Rex
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If you want to raise kids, that would justify moving in with a woman. But there’s still no need to get married. I live in France, where it’s very common these days for couples to start raising a family yet remain unmarried. It works fine.

Disabuse
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Disabuse
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In most countries, living together for a certain period constitutes “Common-law marriage”, and your partner is entitled to her share in case of a split (same as divorce). In such cases, there are no benefits (and often drawbacks) to not formalizing the union.

'Reality' Doug
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'Reality' Doug
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That’s why I suggest nearby residences with at least one intervening residence, but the law can be changed to force biological fathers to wed. It will get worse unless you are a total bum with nothing to offer by alpha tingles.

preppin
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preppin
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Beware of common-law marriages in these states that still allow for them: Alabama, Colorado, Kansas, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Iowa, Montana, Utah and Texas (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage_in_the_United_States) as well as New Hampshire and Utah under special circumstances.

hernandayoleary
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My understanding from quebec civil law is the french have no concept of common law marriage. In english speaking nations live with a woman for 1-3 years and you are viewed as being LEGALLY MARRIED, no different than if you got a marriage license.

So in most of the usa, not marrying and having kids and living under the same roof is legally impossible

Nah
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“So in most of the usa, not marrying and having kids and living under the same roof is legally impossible”

False. Common-law marriage was either never recognized or phased out entirely in most states by the 1990’s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage_in_the_United_States

Cohabiting without marriage is certainly possible in the US. However, with declining marriage rates and ever-tighter state budgets, one could reasonably anticipate future legislation imposing alimony-like financial obligations on unmarried, cohabiting parties. In practice, men paying former live-in girlfriends. But of course.

Caveat emptor. See “palimony” or “putative marriage.”

hernandayoleary
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hernandayoleary
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Ok so it has been eliminated in principal but with Palimony it seems like it is coming back no?

“In California, the court recognizes palimony (Marvin claim). This means that if a couple lives together for an extended period of time and splits, he or she may have a right to receive support and/or a right to certain property acquired during the relationship. Always speak with an attorney to discuss your unique situation. – See more at: http://www.cadivorce.com/news/common-law-marriage-myths/#sthash.TxkJ3Jee.dpuf

http://www.cadivorce.com/news/common-law-marriage-myths/

Doesn’t seem all so different from common law marriage?

How is it any better when your still stuck with common law like punishments (palimony, child support, etc)

Nah
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Nah
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It’s worse than common law marriage. And it may become commonplace in the future. But, at present, “palimony” judgements are, to my knowledge, extremely rare in the US.

You were wrong about common-law. I corrected you. That’s all.

Issues of “palimony” or “putative” marriage aside, I don’t think cohabiting is a good idea under any circumstances, especially with DV laws the way they are. It’s a huge risk to take for a small chance of conferring some indeterminate developmental benefit to your hypothetical future kids. It’s a pipe dream.

Ray Wolfson
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You are wrong… co-habitation is the single most exhausting thing you can do to yourself… you lose the freedom to get up when you please, you come home to calls for menial tasks like taking out the trash or buying more toilet roll…. you can’t relax and end up like a guest in your own home…. raising kids is for nannies of the uber rich or ghetto peasants with nothing to lose… unless you have an income above $1M per year and a networth above $10M and can afford to keep your own seperate pad away from the kids and baby momma, you are opening your home to what amounts to nothing more than the general public…….. have the balls to live on your own, pay a maid / housekeeper and if you can’t get it for free a couple of sluts….. purrrfect…. you’ll live until you are 150…

Dr. Zoidberg
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Dr. Zoidberg
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Who does your menial tasks now? Shouldn’t co-habitation reduce your workload?

anon
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anon
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charlie sheen wink

Slurpy2k11
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Slurpy2k11
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So, when you live alone, the toilet paper replenishes itself, and the trash takes out itself? Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

brett
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brett
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Actually, a study by the Australian Institute of Family Studies showed that kids from married couples attain better socio-economic outcomes than the alternative.

Joe
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Joe
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Couple of thoughts-
Family is the building block of society. America is in the dregs because the Zionist bankers aka Feminism aka Communisms aka Big Brother has wrecked the family to make slaves of little kids and their futures
-Roosh you have never been married so all you can do is speculate…
-Did it ever occur to you havig a solid home with a Mom and Dd is how kids develop the best. If you or I impregnated a girl and let her use the system to mediate that- how would that not screw up a kid or here’s Dad and he sends a check every month. Total crap is what these no fault divorce laws are! Thanks for that Jew World Order.
– Man anyone with common sense knows little boys and girls need mommy and daddy not step
Parents or the government. Sorry Roosh but your reasoning sucks ass on this one. I hate the laws that are anti man am anti human too. All I’m saying is that kids need a real family and for the parents to deny them that or the state to do that is selfish, stupid, and will create disaster on down the line. Ill continue reading tr blog but the reasoning here is really post modern and selfish. The family is the basis for everything- never forget that.

Joe
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Joe
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Ps-
I’m Brazilian and the reason the women are so good is because we have big, loyal, loving families. American hicks are messed up because of the broken homes they come from and the continual Madison Avenue consumer brain washing from Jew York Shitty. The good girls come from healthy loving family’s. I’ve done both- divorce and family. I can tell you family is the best thing. Divorce sucks- it breaks homes and broken homes create broken people and broken people have broken society’s and broken society’s can stand up to a bunch of 60 year old Khazar aka Jew piss any liar sociopath old men like the Rockefellers and Rothschilds who just consolidate all the wealth to control all the goyim aka cattle (what they call non Jews by the news are really khazar a anyway- read iamthewitness.com Benjamin freedman and Ezra pound).

Ray Wolfson
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it’s easy to see why brazil with it’s favelas and don’t stop at a red light after dark is such a wonderful and happy place…. big families… or… breeding like rabbits… ?

hernandayoleary
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hernandayoleary
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Your whole concept is about kids.

“Did it ever occur to you havig a solid home with a Mom and Dd is how kids develop the best.”

What about what is best for the man. Because in a divorce the judge will not think what is best for a man, men got to look out for what is best for themselves these days. You can look out for your kids but lots of kids, especially female grow up to hate their dads. In other words, you will sacrifice yourself to raise little munchkens who hate you. Its a raw deal. The best option is the michael jackson option. Get a surrogate in a foreign country, have them raise the kid until they are old enough to come over. Pay out the baby sister and the mexican nanny or whatever to hold it down while your at work until they are old enough to be home alone.

This seems most likely to engender kids who won’t hate you. The fact that Michael Jackson daughter openly said she love her dad is a big statement given most american daughters HATE their dads.

xstratusx
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xstratusx
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It doesn’t matter what’s best for the man, it matters what’s best for the child who never asked to be brought into this world. If you want what’s best for you, don’t have kids, ever.

Ray Wolfson
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all fine and good so long as you understand that by having kids you also gain little benefit whilst at the same time giving up a large part of your freedom (and income).

Daniel
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Daniel
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Thumbs up, man, you are the king. I didn’t even have to finish the article, you just made my day, lol.

Dr. Steve Brule
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Dr. Steve Brule
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I see your points. Perhaps the answer lies again in “it depends.”

Admittedly, I’m sure that a lot of what you say is true and that a lot of men would have to admit to themselves that they took the “easy” route and got married to end loneliness, and because they didn’t pursue better alternatives (better women, as opposed to settling for a 4 or 5). I have to admit that’s what I had done at one point in my life (no longer married now).

But it seems to me that under the right circumstances, and with the right people, a marriage can provide stability & companionship that you can’t have otherwise (at least not to that degree). Granted, that may simply be a really hard thing to pull off unfortunately.

Tom Leykis often drives home a similar point: that marriage is more disadvantageous to men than ever, and in some cases a fraud! I can’t argue with his points or those of Roosh in many things. With paternity fraud, paying child support for a child that’s not even yours, and the high rate of divorce filed by women, it’s a dangerous proposition.

I wonder if maybe a compromise is best: get your shit together, and go after a really good woman who’s more of a 7 or 8 THAT YOU REALLY WANT and be happy if you choose to get married?

Just some thoughts.

Dr. Steve Brule
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Dr. Steve Brule
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I should add that I have a serious interest in foreign women. Maybe aiming for a sexy, attractive latina with traditional values as we all know there are lots of those if you are willing to go after them. smile

Jack
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Jack
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I want kids. That’s my issue. If i didn’t want kids, I would never consider marriage. And this nonsense about “have kids and don’t get married” – doesnt’ work. It’s either let my gentic lineage die with me or saddle up and eat the shit sandwich that is marriage. Not sure what to do.
I”m mid 30’s and banging a smoking hot 27 year old blonde and I think about calling it a day and saddling up but then the horror stories of bad marriages of my buddies come flooding past.

BernieGoetzFan
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BernieGoetzFan
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You can do both. But, yes, have kids.

Better
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Better
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Pay for a surrogate and raise your kids yourself. It’s tough and expensive, but it’s still cheaper than divorce. Also, your kids will be better off by virtue of not having been taught to hate you by your future vindictive ex-wife. Best of all, you get to keep your balls.

Studies show that kids raised by single dads do considerably better than their single mom-raised peers.

The Legend
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The Legend
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Gen. Roosh lol

K-Man
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K-Man
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If you could go back in time, would you give this advice to your Dad Roosh? Don’t get married! Or, if you want kids, just father a child and then leave for South America when the mother gets less attractive? Make sure you move your assets overseas too, so the bitch can’t get child support from you.

cameron_pantywetter
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That’s unfair. Obviously he doesn’t wish he was never born.

If you weren’t born, you wouldn’t know, would you? So the question is… would his dad have been better off not getting married. That’s a question only Roosh can answer.

hernandayoleary
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hernandayoleary
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The probably answer is his dad came from iran or turkey and marriage their doesn’t mean what marriage here means where the woman shits all over the man. In the ME, men are still treated good by their wives. Hell men can have 5 wives so not getting sex from 1 is no big deal.

yeah
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yeah
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I want kids and will definately settle down
dont you guys have a drive to reproduce

Don
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Don
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Roosh is approaching endgame, his path is not for everyone that is for sure, especially if he finally asks the question, where are all these women that he wants to bang going to come from if no-one wants to settle down?

Lol
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Lol
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Same place they’ve always come from. The poor and the stupid. Plenty of those around to repopulate the next generation.

yeah
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yeah
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you americans have got to get into your head

you can have kids and not get married for fucks sake

Shawn
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Shawn
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This is not Scandinavia. In America only low-value low-class prole women in their 20’s have bastards. So yes, you can have kids outside of wedlock with a crummy girl.

I think it’s best to marry a young hottie, have kids with her (cheat discretely), and leave her sometime in her 30’s for an attractive foreign woman (such as a mail-order bride).

David
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David
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Don’t you want to continue to have a relationship with your children? Abandoning their mother, at the very least, is going to strain your relationship with them. No matter what you tell them, they will think leaving means you don’t love them. It might work out, but it is a risk.

thormoz
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thormoz
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That’s what Mark Minter used to say…

Toads
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Toads
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Unlike Mark Minter, Roosh has options.

Calwinston
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Calwinston
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Roosh is getting up there in age! He has options now, but talk to him in 10 years and see if his mind changes.The same quality of women that he is talking to now, will not look at him unless he has money when he is 45, 50 and above.

thebestman
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thebestman
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hang on there buddy, roosh is a decent looking guy but i dn’t think he has much to lose in that department….lets put it this way, i’m a decent looking guy, currently 25 nothing too special but i fully expect to look better than roosh does now, when i’m 45.

lets cann this whole too old talk, we all know roosh gets girls because of game, not because of his great body or youthful vitality, and can point to plenty of young guys who get nothing at all.

Also ED, decreased libido etc is not an issue for healthy males physically and psychologically, getting women and having sex is not being an olympic athlete, is not playing in the nfl etc

Armchair General
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Armchair General
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I don’t think nature of marriage was ever different. To put it simple, people who get married and have children, have dedicated rest of their life to raising children to the mercy of society to chew them up in the way it sees fit.

Only people who are married and still can live a free life, are those who actually spend little time home, like musicians.

Marriage, permanent residence, 2 cars that you have to take care off, chidlren you have to look after 24/7 – what a great way to be tied exactly where you are convenient for government to keep an eye on you.

Shawn
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Shawn
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I think the problem with this thinking is that the highest quality girls are not very promiscuous and tend to get married in their early 20’s, so, if a guy wants to have a family with a high quality girl, he pretty much has to get married at a young age unless he wants another guy to scope her up….

asdf
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asdf
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guys up to 40 can wife girls in early 20s, no problem whatsoever.

prepped
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prepped
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Yes. This is true. It’s not an easy road though. I gamed and hooked a 21 year old at 45 (less than half my age). It the most intense game I’ve had to spit out to land her.

After just a few weeks of my wonderfulness, she got serious about a future with me. I had just gotten out of a dead marriage and was not looking to do it again. So I had to cut her loose.

Not only is it difficult for me to game girls less than 10 years my junior, but there’s a plethora of social hassles that go along with older men dating younger women in America. Even if you look like George Clooney, you’ll be chastised by many for dating way below your age. You may even be called a pedophile, as was suggested by this girls mother. Is it really worth the extra hassle? Perhaps in other countries and cultures where the old man + young girl is accepted its a great way to go. I’m searching for those places now, because I can’t stand the 30 something single moms and divorcees here in the states with their entitlement attitudes and hearts of stone, not to mention their bodies are on the fast decline, especially if they’ve popped out some pups.

freedom
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freedom
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americans think the only place to raise a family is in america… move to eastern europe and raise a family you whiners. throw your lot in with the slavs and maybe in three generations your great-great grandkids will be drinking vodka and dancing on the ashes of the government you despise. dont have kids and you can be sure your line will die out for no reason.

BernieGoetzFan
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BernieGoetzFan
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“Even 45-year-old men have a near unlimited supply of 30-year-old spinsters and single moms to finagle commitment-free sex from.”
Speaking as a 44 year old, I can tell you this is true. In fact, I had my best year ever in 2013 both in volume and quality. A confident, stylish, in-shape, youthful 44-year old man is like gold to women where I live.

Ice Rush
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Ice Rush
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And where would that be?

Ternarydaemon
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Ternarydaemon
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My uncle just divorced from a 20 year marriage. Moved out of USA, liquidated his few assets, and has no child support obligations.

She looks…well like a 45 year old woman who hasn’t hit the gym in 20 years.

He…immediatly hit the gym, lost 10 kgs, and while wrinkles abound, gray hair is abundant.

He has quite the luck with the 35+ market. Most women over 38 are too “old” (meaning fat, plump, old) for him. The 30 and younger market are out of his reach but, still, at 52 and divorced, he has freedom and sexual life. Couldn’t say the same about the exwife.

Dudesicle
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Dudesicle
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I’m the same age and can say the exact same thing. Except where I live (L.A.) people are age-conscious and youth is highly valued, so that presents an extra challenge. Curious where you live.

BernieGoetzFan
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BernieGoetzFan
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Northern Virginia suburbs.

euneaux
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euneaux
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I do want family even though it may be getting late for this aging player.

I know that men can sire offspring well into their declining years, but will I have the necessary vim to chase around toddlers much less the strength to deal with teenagers some decades later?

Raising children is a pretty big job. Hard enough with the teamwork of a well-functioning perhaps married couple. God help the single-mothers and the poor bastards who are forced the finance them with their child-support payments.

PS

Anybody else notice how well Poland did at the PISA international school achievement comparison test? http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/education-international-test-results-100575.html They advanced to the leading large western nation just behind the Netherlands. Americans are obsessed with moving to “good school districts.” Perhaps another reason for this not so young man to Go East?

Maybe see you on the Baltic in the Spring?

Do zobaczenia na bałtyku na wiosnę!

PPS

Dr. Roosh has always been coy about his wishes to have children. Do we think there are any little baby Roosh bastards crawling around in the wake of his international adventures?

Monroe Ficus
Guest

PISA is all about demographics, assuming dumb polack jokes aren’t true. Dump blacks and mexicans into poland, and see how they’d score.

-Not a race troll, just a thought

euneaux
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euneaux
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Sweden does terribly, but Netherlands does great. Both countries have substantial immigration to deal with.

Something else perhaps cultural, political or institutional has to explain the difference.

dj
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dj
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Brilliant summary Rooshv,

As a 40-something bachelor, I see ZERO benefit to marriage at least not here in the USA. My freedom and sanity is priceless, marriage is not.

thecaptainpower
Guest

You left out getting married and cheating as an option…

Disabuse
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Disabuse
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Yes, but why? Instead of just running around, you’re suggesting running around with a heavy stone on your back (the stone heavy enough to break your leg if you drop it)… hardly an improvement.

Even if you had no moral qualms about cheating (and you should, for marriage to make any kind of sense), given the current divorce laws, why would you care to risk 50%+ of your assets whenever you cheat?

Chianaski
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Chianaski
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What about a man who marries a rich woman to support him so he doesn’t have to work hard? He risks very little. And he can cheat on the side. Sounds like a good deal.

Jerome
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Jerome
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Lets hear a how to-
On how to game rich chicks.

Name
Guest
Name
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“This is because my exposure to feminine women outside of the United States has shown me that marriage doesn’t have to end in divorce rape and a child custody nightmare.”

This is just an another proof that you know shit about women in eastern europe ( I am from there). The rate of divorce there is as high as anywhere else.And guess what-there is not child custody nightmare.Because men have no right to see their children AT ALL,and neither courts nor police will help you about it.The best advice on russian forums for men: forget about your children.

You are an idiot.

Name
Guest
Name
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This is to support my previous comment:

“Russia had the highest divorce rate in the world in 2012 according to the United Nations.Statistics from Russia’s social registry office show that the majority of marriages end in divorce. Ten years ago, every third Russian marriage ended in divorce; today it is every second. In 2012, about 650,000 couples divorced while 1,213,000 got married”

http://rbth.co.uk/society/2013/10/16/divorce_russian_style_30845.html

Realist
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Realist
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To each his own. I find sex within a relationship with someone I have an emotional connection to is more enjoyable than random hookups.

bacon
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bacon
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I dont think roosh is advocating random hookups per say. Rather he is teling men to avoid settling for one vagina for the rest of your life. In fact he has of late written about his enjoyment with mini relationships spanning a couple weeks to months.In my opinion it is easy to stil get an emotional connection on short term relationships.

Name
Guest
Name
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Here is the world divorce statistics:

http://www.eutimes.net/2012/11/russia-no-1-in-top-10-countries-with-highest-divorce-rates-in-2012/

USA is number 3.After Russia and Aruba.Other top 10 countries: Ukraine,Belarus,Lithuania,Moldova,Czech republic and South Korea.

Guess what- nothing to do with either women are “feminine” or “feminazis”.

Sam Spade
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Sam Spade
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I’ve thought about this a lot. I think marriage made more sense when it was easier/more common to have a mistress or mistresses. Then the guy could have a dependable wife, raise kids, and enjoy novel sex on the side.

Lemon
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Lemon
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Look, if you don’t want kids, don’t have kids. If you want kids, you find a good woman and wife her up. That’s the old fasthioned way it’s still the only way that works worth a damn.

Some guys just decide one day, they would rather take their sons hiking in the Rocky Mountains and fishing in Alaska, than chase tail.

20th Level
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20th Level
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“Bastard child” wtf does that even mean anymore? Is this still the 1800’s?

Dudes should shut the fuck up with that nonsense. It sounds like some feminist shaming language. Here’s a protip, modern society doesn’t give a shit about your parents.

If you want a kid find a woman with good genes that isn’t overtly crazy and seems like she would be a good mother and make it happen.

Stick around and raise your kid the best you can. If the relationship go sour like it probably will don’t be a dick about it and start world war III with your kids mom. Keep it civilized and you’ll be able to see and raise your kid no problem.

So here’s another news flash. Your kid doesn’t need you around every second of every day if your kids mom has her head on straight and isn’t a stripper or a welfare queen. Its not about you its about your kid. See and raise your kid as often as you can and make sure they have everything they need financially.

Set a good example as a man and a human being and your kid wiil be just fine.

'Reality' Doug
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'Reality' Doug
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Roosh, we are all dealing with ‘issues’ one way or another. These are not emotionally healthy times. Wild men did not conquer the world. Civilized men did. Do not confuse post-civilized/post-feminism men with civilized men who are both conquerors and builders. A woman is a keeper only if she is good wife material, but you don’t have to marry her by goobermint standards, do you? I can’t tell if you are a proto-patriarch or just a philosophical player deeply afraid of the building adventure. Now is not the time to so much as physically build as it is to build the vision. What is your vision? The venerable playa? Even if the case, meme evolution continues and your efforts during the playa stage have been invaluable. I just hope civilized Western patriarchy is only evolving well and coming back now as something stronger that will win.

FreedomFromWoman
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FreedomFromWoman
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I see couples with offspring all the time, and you know what they look like? a bunch of weakly slaves. It’s always a beta male with some fat wife stuck driving a minivan and than paying for his wife forever, rather than having the balls to be free and in charge of his own life, he gives his financial and spiritual destiny to some twerp woman, imagine waking up everyday beside the same twerp, and wondering what you could have made of your life if you didn’t get stuck with that person. Life is too short!

It works like this, Think of a fly being attracted to honey, the fly eventually gets stuck in it and dies, Women are SWEET and alluring for the first stage of the relationship to lure in the man, and than it all goes downhill, its about time people start to wake up and get rid of this marriage propaganda/hollywood belief that romance with a woman is the answer to life’s problems. The government wants you to create more tax payers hence the propaganda they created with feminism and giving women all power over BETA MALES!

Women make men weak and pathetic. Single men workout all the time in order to stay competitive on the market, they are way more aggressive when it comes to making money and succeeding because the sexual drives are sublimated into self love and self prosperity, feels better to accomplish things that will appear in front of you than some idea you share with a woman and agree with aka relationship, Total waste of life!

A man in a relationship feels secure and becomes fat or weak, since he doesn’t feel the need to compete once he has swayed a woman, his life drives are lowered. Being in a relationship turns you into a SUPER BETA. Love is a weak BETA emotion if it isn’t meant for only YOURSELF. Think about it, this “love you experience” is not coming from a woman, it is you projecting your OWN emotion on a woman because you have put someone OTHER THAN YOURSELF on a pedestal which makes you feel good in their company and addicts you to them. Thats right folks, the only reason it ever feels good to be around a woman is because you put them on a pedestal higher than YOURSELF and worship them like a BETA MALE. Always remember folks, Marriage and LOVE is for BETA MALES who wish to be vampiristically drained of resources by a woman, and not live their life to the fullest.

E.K.
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E.K.
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When I was in college, the idea of working a routine day job seemed like the worst thing that could possibly happen to me. All the things I valued about my life–my flexible schedule, my access to student discounts, the fact that if I didn’t like my superiors (professors) I’d just get new one next semester, my ability to choose what I studied, the variety of learning new things each semester instead of just one thing forever like the office job I worked part-time–were threatened by the constraints of a 9-5 job. I delayed entering the workforce by extending my schooling for several years, acquiring more degrees and working as a research assistant with all the flexibility of being a student.

It’s been a half dozen years since those days. I have a 9-5 job now, and I love it. I’m doing work I find challenging, working with interesting and good people, working in a supportive environment that encourages personal and professional growth and development, with a generous benefits package and a modest salary that supports one person just fine where I live. Everything I feared about the situation I know find myself in is true: I can’t do whatever I want most of the time. I do the same things, more or less, most days. But that stuff just doesn’t bother me the way it scared me when I was younger. I’m very happy and feel lucky to have ended up here.

You can call it brainwashing, and some of you probably will. But maybe the real explanation is that we value different things at different times and places in our lives, and what you want and hold to be most important now might not be what you want and hold important later–might not be objectively the most important things for all people to want and hold important.

Alex
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Alex
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Your comment is absolute gold.

Jordan ᴺᶦʰˡᶦˢᵗ
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Jordan ᴺᶦʰˡᶦˢᵗ
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This actually proves that most guys are just born to be betas. No amount of red-pill can awaken them.

(Not judging, if it genuinely makes you happy, it’s fine.)

Jordan ᴺᶦʰˡᶦˢᵗ
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Jordan ᴺᶦʰˡᶦˢᵗ
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Perfect.

Paper
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Paper
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“…the only thing that can reduce a man’s sparkle and turn his face into a leathery shadow is a wife.” That some pretty brutal shit, brah!

Bra
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Bra
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“I look in the face of long-term monogamy and I see the death of everything that made me who I am today.”

Roosh is fuckin killing it.

bacon
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bacon
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The whole article is on point. There really is no benefit to a man to be married. The argument is that it is better for the kids to grow up in a two parent household but if your miserable it will be obvious to your kids. Btw think long and hard if having kids is really something you want in life. http://www.returnofkings.com/17283/the-benefits-of-avoiding-fatherhood

shmiggen
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shmiggen
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Getting married is culturally enriching, vibrant and diverse!

bacon
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bacon
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not sure if serious

Pedro
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Pedro
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icycalm
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icycalm
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Analytical power zero. For this sorry excuse of an article to make sense, its title would have to be MARRIAGE DOESN’T MAKE SENSE IF YOU DON’T WANT TO PROCREATE. I.e. marriage doesn’t make sense if you don’t care if your genes get wiped out of the face of the planet. I.e. marriage doesn’t make sense if you are a vapid little dude who only cares about whatever chemicals are flooding his brain when he’s ejaculating. I.e. marriage doesn’t make sense if you are decadent.

If you are not all these things, on the other hand, and have found a wonderful woman (of which there are PLENTY if you are not a loser) with which to settle down and start a family — marriage makes perfect sense, as it has done for millennia.

UncleElmer
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UncleElmer
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In my 40s I had a great time with young lassies as a Ballroom Dance Sensation.

After I got obviously older than their fathers their enthusiasm waned a bit. Having been spoiled by their firm bodies I was not inclined to chasing what gals over 30 were available in the US. As I had children here I could not relocate abroad.

So I married a fine overseas woman, as seen in A Man Wants a Wife, Not a Co-Worker. When I picked her up at FedEx, she had zero miles on the odometer.

She has been a great partner and a loving, devoted wife. I suppose I could have waited until now that my boys are technically adults, but the last 7 years with her have been pretty damn good. It could implode, but it is not in her cultural upbringing to do so.

Though I agree, single men can often get laid more than married ones. I have a friend who has not had sex with his wife in 10 years. Pathetic.

Dr. Steve Brule
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Dr. Steve Brule
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Where is she from? Don’t leave out details.

UncleElmer
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UncleElmer
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Vietnam.

icycalm
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icycalm
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Analytical power zero. For this sorry excuse of an article to make sense, its title would have to be MARRIAGE DOESN’T MAKE SENSE IF YOU DON’T WANT TO PROCREATE. I.e. marriage doesn’t make sense if you don’t care if your genes get wiped out of the face of the planet. I.e. marriage doesn’t make sense if you are a vapid little dude who only cares about whatever chemicals are flooding his brain when he’s ejaculating. I.e. marriage doesn’t make sense if you are a LOSER.

If you are not all these things, on the other hand, and have found a wonderful woman (of which there are PLENTY if you are not a loser) with which to settle down and start a family — marriage makes perfect sense, as it has done for millennia. End of history lesson.

Morality is for losers
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Morality is for losers
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Wow, so it makes perfect sense to Copulate with a women who has been around many times, and had her days of ONS and gang bangs, Finding so called fairy tales princess is like searching for unicorns.

Good luck finding such unicorn and let us know if you have found one.

Its better to be a free man and have our money, freedom, peace of mind, and most importantly we can be mobile and change our careers and be as we like

Freedom is better than Unicorn fairy tale princess..In this fast paced world, your skills might become obsolete any day and you will be replaced by corporations with cheap labor, its important to be mobile and be happy, and about spreading your Seed and creating a new generation of kids, good luck with that, USA is already indebted , most of western world is indebted, so your kids would be born as debt servants, their life would average and full of misery..its better not be bring kids in this world .

If saving money and being independent ,seeking freedom are the qualities of LOSER, i would rather be a LOSER that so called Socially acceptable winner who works his ass for a Slut wife and Stupid kids.,

Its the responsibility of women to give birth and chose wisely, men are not equipped with uterus nor have ability to given birth,

If we really want a baby and rise a kid, I would rather choose surrogate mother than a slut whose sole purpose is to make me sign a marriage contract and claim child support

To the hell with society and fake morality

Etzel
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Etzel
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Your second “i.e.” doesn’t follow immediately from the first. What about the guy who doesn’t care if his genes get wiped out of the face of the planet, because he recognizes they are inferior to the norm, or not desirable at all for mankind? (A short man, for example, or an extremely ugly one.) I understand that your whole point was to try and make Roosh SEE this, not the short ugly guy I mentioned, and I agree that both Roosh and the short ugly guy end up being “losers” (the former for being a vapid little dude, etc. and the latter for being, well, short and ugly lol). It’s just that some losers are LESS losers than others.

“You shall above all see with your own eyes where injustice is always at its greatest: where life has developed at its smallest, narrowest, neediest, most incipient and yet cannot avoid taking itself as the goal and measure of things and for the sake of its own preservation secretly and meanly and ceaselessly crumbling away and calling into question the higher, greater, richer —”

So the short, ugly man for the sake of his own preservation, would be calling into question the higher, greater and richer… — Which, if this is indeed true, would then raise some serious questions, namely: what about “final solutions”? I.e. wiping out of the face of the planet the wretched genes BY FORCE?

But then again, the higher wouldn’t be higher, without a lower. The higher, greater, richer are only so in opposition to the lower, smaller, poorer. What do you say about this?

Etzel
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Etzel
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And then I discover I just wasted minutes of my life addressing an icycalm wannabe. Dude, why would you do that? Choose a different name next time, ffs. Or at least refrain from sharing your FACEBOOK ACCOUNT (lol), so you can better trick people into thinking you’re someone you’re not.

hernandayoleary
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hernandayoleary
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Stupid response. You realize women change after marriage, women change after having kids. If your going to be around someone 24/7 you better REALLY fucking like that person because there are few friends who’d I want to be around for that long. At a certain point you run out of things to say and just start arguing all the time about how the other person annoys you.

Women can have kids and have post partum depression, their brain can and often does change chemically. Then it don’t matter if your a loser or a winner, when your partner has a kid and starts acting batshit crazy….

You can procreate without marriage

l jess
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l jess
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If it makes perfect sense then why do so many women pull the eject handle?

GrammarianManwhore
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GrammarianManwhore
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Roosh – you can’t fornicate with your wife – fornication denotes that the parties involved are not married. I’d suggest changing it to “copulate”. Otherwise, keep up the good work. We love you in Morocco.

damnson
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damnson
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Roosh, your advice is generally spot-on and much appreciated for someone like me, who doesn’t have a lot of sex and is trying to turn that around. Perhaps this is just my blue-pill mindset, but perhaps it comes from having a very strong relationship with my family…. but do you seriously not ever want to have children with a woman that you love and trust (for the most part at least?)

It seems to me that a lot of generally older couples got married when they were young – and they went through both good and bad times together (obviously modern couples don’t handle “bad” times very well, and just divorce before anything can be worked through or worked out). Going through a lot together appears to strengthen the bond, but perhaps this isn’t the full story. You obviously have largely sampled the eligible women out there, and maybe it’s just because I know I will want kids in the future, but what you’re describing (i.e. that men must learn game or risk becoming emasculated zombies under the thumb of their slavedriver wives) sounds like it would really suck over the long term.

So the choice is between gaming mini-relationships and a long, slow grinding subservience. You make it sound like that choice would be easy. But would it be? Imagine you’re 60, getting the girlfriend experience (as per your suggestion) from a very attractive and nice prostitute. Maybe you decide you don’t even want the sex any more – you just want someone to talk to, to be admired for something other than your money, I guess. What is more horrifying as a potential future – having to subordinate most of your desires thanklessly to provide for people who don’t appreciate you (not necessarily only a wife) or talking alone into the darkness, almost forgotten except for the fact that you have money to pay for companionship?

I dunno. It sounds like a really shit choice to me. But then again, it’s not like I know enough to answer it anyway. I guess what I’m trying to say is that either option presented – “family” or “freedom” sound like they’re both pretty awful.

bacon
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bacon
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You incorrectly assume guys are not already paying for the privledge of being married. Look at any studies done on women dating and marying men who make less than them. It is one of the biggest turnoffs to a woman. Rest assured your ability to provide financially to the relationship is important in your 20s and married as it is when your 60 getting the girlfriend experience.

Virtually no women is going to support her husband financially over any significant lenght of time. Your value to her is in large part based on your ability to provide.

Toads
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Toads
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For those talking about wanting children, note that some single men are hiring surrogates at going it alone :

http://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/2011/08/12/single_man_wanted_a_child_hired_a_surrogate_had_a_baby.html

This is not easy, and not for everyone. But in some ways, it is better for the child, since more of your resources can go towards the child, rather than for purses, shoes, diamonds, and yoga classes for a fat wife.

Lemon
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Lemon
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Stunningly bad idea.

Toads
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Toads
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Wrong. This guy avoids a huge risk, and the kid is arguably better off than one who his mother takes away for cash and prizes.

Plus, he is spending his own money, unlike the millions of women who do this with OTHER people’s money.

A single father can handle things much better than a single mother. Two parents are best, but the mother often blows that up, as we know.

Yes
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Yes
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“… but the mother often blows that up, as we know.”

That’s the critical part. In the (likely) event of a divorce in the US, you have about a 10% chance of getting custody of your kids. The other 90% of the time, Mommy Dearest gets to do whatever she wants with them… on your dime. She can deny your visitation, move potentially dangerous unrelated males into her household, or poison the kids’ minds against you with impunity. Good luck trying to get your “rights” enforced if she’s not cooperative.

These days, you have a far better chance of providing a stable, secure environment for your kids if you have full custody. The only ways to reliably achieve this are through surrogacy or adoption.

LadyLayer
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LadyLayer
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Hello all. I’ve read the Bang book but I’ve come across a situation I can’t solve. I’m 31 years old and last Thursday I got the number of a hot 20 year old I met at the gym. As Roosh suggested I didn’t make any contact with her until Sunday night when I called her and left her a voicemail. Then tonight I got a text from her with the following generic response: Hey, sorry I missed your call!

I didn’t even bother responding to this crappy reply. I may see her tomorrow, Wed or Thursday night at the gym. What do I do from here? What do you think of my plan of not responding to that text and playing it cool next time I see her? If I don’t see her I was thinking of calling a second time on Thursday night (no texts in between then).

E.K.
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E.K.
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Stop calling her. 20 year olds don’t make voice calls. All they do is text. The only time they pick up the phone is if their mom is calling or someone is at the door downstairs asking to be let in. They tend to be uncomfortable on the phone because they’re unfamiliar with it and feel “put on the spot” compared to texting.

LadyLayer
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LadyLayer
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So should I just play the text game with her? When should I send my next text? Also I’m not a fan of that response. It wasn’t even a “How are you?” It was so templated.

LadyLayer
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LadyLayer
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So I should text? When should I respond? Also what do you make of that templated response she sent me.

Bob
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Bob
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What of emotional attachment? Does your experience and mind frame allow you to simply walk from these great girls when you start feeling too comfortable?

practicalh
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practicalh
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While living the life of Casanova in perpetuity sounds like a tempting proposition, I have to wonder wehther the fellow readers believe that reducing life’s meaning to getting laid for as long as possible is a good idea. Are were foregoing greater pleasures and greater fulfillment by seeking constant variety forever after?

Shenpen
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Shenpen
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Roosh, why do you assume every man cares about getting laid first and foremost? I care a whole lot more about having a nice family, home, stability, kids, to be a breadwinner, which gives aim and purpose to my otherwise pointless, aimless existence. I simply cannot be selfish – I never had desires of my own. Yet I cannot live for altruism for strangers either – I never found the motivation to care for strangers. I yearn for having been born in a time and age when people are given set duties for life from birth, such as the Middle Ages. Duties give one a purpose and pride. Lacking predefined duties, a family is an OK substitute for acquiring duties.

bacon
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bacon
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You sound like the happy slave. A reference from the 1970s book A Manipulated Man. You should check it out there are pdfs of it found easily on the internet

ROFL
Guest
ROFL
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What a lost soul. Tragic. Notice the like from “The Woman King?” LOL! Esther was really on to something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manipulated_Man

g status
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g status
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just because you get married it doesn’t mean you can’t bang other chicks. just be careful and not too greedy.

sigmund Freud once said the two greatest human urges are sex and becoming great. now how do u satisfy both?

Sebastian
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Sebastian
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Monogamy isn’t natural full stop. As many comedian’s joke penguins are faithful because they all look the same. Lust, attachment and love provide the chemical reactions necessary for us to reproduce, and unfortunately once the cocktail wears off many men and women wonder what the hell they were thinking. (The seven year itch). Marriage is the ultimate fairy tale that will be defended to the death, but there is plenty of merit in having a primary and secondary partner/s. “Opening Up” by Tristan Taormino could be a great place to start for those battling the hardwired urges to stray and would rather avoid the heartache and massive legal fees. Perhaps treating marriage as a full time job with a four week paid holiday to Jakarta, Lima, Kiev, or Columbia would see the divorce rate plummet.
There is something worse than marriage, and that is becoming locked into serial monogamy, where the only trading up involves the lawyers Aston Martin.

Musing Alpha
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Musing Alpha
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Marriage makes perfect sense in a healthy, free, and orderly society. Marriage makes almost no sense in our messed up, turned upside down, toxic society of today.

I am not an anti-marriage absolutist but I do caution heavily against the practice. There are only a few instances where I would tell a man.

First and foremost, if you are going to have and rear children with a woman. A married couple, a man and a woman, is by far the best environment to raise children. If you make the decision to have children you should be put their future above your personal freedom.

Why marriage over just cohabitation? If you have children you actually have more legal protections when you are married as opposed to single and living together. If you divorce, you will be better situated when it comes time to determine custody and child support. You won’t be that much better situated but the difference is still significant. One thing a wife cannot do is boot you out of the house and then sue you for years of back child support. Depending on the state, she may be able to collect up to 3-5 years of child support retroactively. The only defense against this if you are not married to try to get a credit for expenses you paid regarding the children. Good luck doing that unless you have meticulously documented those payments and have original receipts. Also, even though a man still technically has a claim to custody to children conceived outside of marriage you will not be situated very well when the court goes to decide it. Unmarried you will most likely only get very limited visitation. If you are married you have more of a chance of getting some type of real custody arrangements (although the courts will still be biased against you as a man).

The other advantage to marriage with children is in the event of your untimely demise the legal logistics will be much easier for your surviving wife and children. If you are not married it will be a legal nightmare for them even if you had a will and other paperwork in order. You’ll be dead, so unless you are watching from an afterlife somewhere, you might not care, but I think you owe it at least to your children to not put them through years of legal trouble and expenses to get access to your estate.

Another reason I would recommend marriage (in the event you do not want children) is that society still views being an older, single men as a social stigma. It’s slowly becoming more acceptable to be in your 40’s or 50’s and never married, but in large parts of the country it is still viewed as “odd”, “strange”, or “weird”. Some people will just assume you are gay which isn’t as big of a deal anymore because homosexuality is becoming more accepted. But others will think that you might be a pedophile or other undesirable social problems. If you live in New York City then you are probably fine to live your life to the end of your days as a single bachelor. But, if you are in more suburban or rural areas this stigma will not only eventually hurt you socially, but can also have real effects on things such as business and employment. I’ve known a few guys who got married in their 40’s just because they were actually losing business and other opportunities. Clients would invite “him and his wife” over or ask about “the kids” or similar things that can be awkward to explain away to people who still think the default in life is wife, then house, then kids, etc.

The last reason I would recommend someone get married is if their personality does not do “lone wolf” very well. Some people just need to have an intimate connection to other people to thrive. It’s just their personality. And if they don’t have this connection they descend into depression and loneliness. If you are this type you might need to eventually get a wife just for the sake of your mental health. I have known at least one guy who tried very hard to live the single bachelor life, but his personality just wasn’t for that kind of lifestyle. He descended into depression and alcoholism and essentially lost around five years of his life. He then met a decent woman who helped him sober up and they eventually got married. Last time I caught up with him he seemed to be doing well even though he said married was only “OK”. I guess “OK” was better then depressive alcoholic to him as he still seemed more or less happy.

Lastly, any man who is thinking of getting married should have done all the following before doing so:

1. Be at least in his 30’s
2. Made the most of his single, bachelor years as terms of women and travel
3. Be in an LTR for at least one year with a perspective wife before even contemplating marriage.
4. Be doubly, darn sure you have thought the decision the whole way through
5. Make a pre-nup (value varies state to state) a make or break for marriage

Marriage sure does not make sense for a lot of modern men out there, especially guys like Roosh. But, it is still an option that men should consider if they fit into the right category.

truth
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truth
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I grew up in a home without a father. I haven’t landed in jail yet. I think you guys are overreacting.

boblawblaw
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What attracts you to beautiful women? Survival. The best DNA ensures your genetic material will be better equipped to spread wide in the future, and not die with you. Living a life of sleeping with a sea of nameless, faceless women is ultimately living the life of an addict. It feels good at first, but ultimately you grow numb to it, and it’s meaningless. Marriage makes sense in the context of having children. You should decide very quickly if that’s something you want, because right now you’re at your physical peak. You’re not going to be capable of pulling the same loving, beautiful girls when you’re 40 that you were when you were 30. There’s no shame in walking away from the table when you’re up. If you genuinely don’t want kids, then you’re right, there’s no point to being married. But still, a good relationship can bring you happiness, but banging some random girl at a bar can only bring you excitement. The distinction is important.

TheOverwatch
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I used to volunteer in a nursing home when I was 14 or 15ish. Most of the old folks in there were all alone. No spouse, and their family rarely visited them. Their days consisted of being fed, being changed(gross), and 20 year old CNAs pretending to take interest in games for the old folks. I never want to end up in an ‘old folks home.’

The point is, maybe you do get married, have the family, white picket fence, 3 kids and a dog, AND still end up living out the last few years of your life in absolute boredom and misery. I would guess very few old couples end up dieing within a short time span of one another.

I think about this a lot too, as most single guys our age(I’m 29) probably do. The fork in the road is in front of you. You can just barely see down each path, but you can’t ultimately see where each road ends.

If I can find, a ‘good enough’ girl, I might be convinced to take the plunge.

Genghis Can and Did
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Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap.
Young Roosh knows of what he speaks. I married sixteen years ago in my blue pill days. Even if things were good in my marriage, it would still be one freaking, long, boring, monotonous, drawn out death sentence. The kids become the highlight of your life and almost, and I mean almost, make it worthwhile. Now add to that cheery combination a wife who increases in girth, oh joy! Then flavor with a dose of red pill knowledge acquired in your late forties and savor the vile taste of regret. Yeah, you get some stealthy young ass on the side every now and then, but its not the same as the sweet taste of poon without fear or regret. And yes, inside, you’re still that horny sixteen year old kid that wants to nail every piece of ass that twitches. Maybe you slow down a bit, but the Beast is still there, craving some strange. And nothing to look forward to but more wrinkles, sagging and regrets! Roosh is right, there’s nothing lonelier than a married man in a household filled with family. And your fellow married friends and neighbors all have that dead, “shoot me now” look in their eyes. But they won’t admit their misery. They’re too ego invested in the situation they “created” after years of programing by the Feminine Imperative to admit that marriage sucks dirty, sweaty, hairy balls.
And yes, you continue as a cog in the Reality TV/Granite Countertop Industrial complex to keep the whole thing going. And believe me, your corporate overlords know they have you by the nuts. Take heed: game till you drop, breathe deep the sweet air of freedom!

EU guy
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Actually feminism is not in favour of marriage either…

Quite interesting that feminists and anti-feminists are aganist marriage. Too convenient for those who promote the destruction of marriage.

I respect your opinion about marriage. But in the end of the day marriage is all about kids. It is not about you havnig fun and your pleasure seeking. What do you think life is all about? Partying all the time or something?

Reality is harsh but statistics all over the world conclude to one thing : the most problematic people are statistically those who come from single-mothers, and divorced parents. What is most surprising is that all surveys agree to one surprising remark : that those kids who are raised in families in which parents dispute often and are constantly at odds are actually better (much better) off than those kids who come from divorced families and much much better off from those raised by single-mothers. Why? Because kids need a father too. There, physically. Not as a theoretical notion that they have a father somewhere out there.

Not being judgemental but I drag it to the other end ; Marriage is NOT about ”me, me and myself”. It is not about the wife or ”the couple” either. It is about the well-fare of kids.

On the other hand if a man does not plan to have kids then we would not even need to discuss this.

John Smith
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Yes. This.

fluffybiskuts
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“cog in the Reality TV/Granite Countertop Industrial Complex”….
Wow…sir that is brilliant….

Ray Wolfson
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Ray Wolfson
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coming from someone whose been there to someone whose been there…. BANG ON !

Jojo
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Genghis Can and Did Damn, I don’t know what you’re saying is true or not. But you’re a great writer. Your use of the english language merits a book or two published.

playb
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1) For the kids a family is better than no family. At least it was in the last 2000 years.

2) For the average older man having kids is better than not having kids. Nobody really gives a fuck about an average older man except his kids.

3) The average old man is the average old man. One can safely assume that the red pill message will be known to most people within the next few years, so even with red pill the average old man will stay the average old man.

4) Colombia etc are temporary arbitrage situations. If more older men adopt this life the arbitrage will go away especially for average men.

invisiblehand85
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dont be average

jojo
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jojo
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cheers to that

Don
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Don
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Whatever you do mate, follow your excitement and don’t theorize it too much…The toughest part is to get rid of preconceived judgment on what should or shouldn’t be done instead of following your excitement – at any moment.

EU guy
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We got to get the bigger perspective. As so many noted down here, marriage is not about sex. If a man’s target is to live his life in his own terms having fun, spending his money for himself, chasing women at will till retirement, then certainly marriage is loss of time and money. Once a man wants to have kids then there is the dilemma : make illegitimate kids on which he will have no saying (kids that statistically will end up being problematic) or marry and take care of his kids upbringing (which increases the chances of having succesful kids – always speaking statistically). These are choices to make and everything depends on what a man really wants.

On the other hand we need to put the issue into its correct perspective and I think we did not do it :

Marriage sucks today not because marriage sucks in general but because ”marriage version 2.0” as promoted by propagandists, neoliberals, neocons, feminazis, capitalists as well as hardcore leftists and as imposed by legislation has ended up being a losing game for the man. In the old days, the ”contract” was a win-win game for both man and woman. Nowadays not only it is a losing contract for the man but it also does not benefit the decent women either who are forced by economic-social conditions to work double. What ”marriage version 2.0” benefits most is the unscrupulous money-chasing women and in some rare cases the dowry-chasing men. By all means, social conditions concerning male-female relationships imply that the former happens more often than the latter. Marriage version 2.0 has been set to benefit the unfaithful and those who will try to dissolve the marriage whenever it is to their benefit.

This is the heart of the problem. Years back, when film producer Aaron Russo was approached by the Rockefellers to do jobs for them, he was told during an evening general discussion around a drink that oligarchs like them funded all that feminist propaganda not really for women’s rights and equality but to get the woman out there to work to achieve 2 things : 1) double the workforce and double the consumers and most importantly 2) reduce the time the parents have available for the right upbringing of their children – when this happens then the upbringing of the children passes mostly via the state officials (nursery employees, teachers, professors) and that is the most efficient way to instill the young minds with the ”new way of thinking” that the oligarchs’ propaganda wishes to propagate. This is what is ”marriage 2.0” is all about. The destruction of marriage. By making it as unattractive as possible to decent men and women. By providing all measures possible to make a divorce the most attractive solution rather than forcing the couples to fix their issues together. This is the ”big elephant” in the room.

EU guy
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Take for example the law that forces men to keep on paying the divorced wife (wether having kids or not). In the old days, the man needed to pay the divorced wife a basic amount for her subsistence as women back then did not always have the means to work in jobs that paid well enough to achieve so – we are also talking about times when divorce was initiated mostly by husbands and mostly to remarry another woman, not really so much for wife infidelity, which was most often dealt by other, less legal, means (beating to death etc. a barbaric act but then a socially accepted practice back then for such cases).

Fantastically, as time passed and no matter if women enterred full employment in all levels, this ”support sum” instead of abolished, instead of at least being reduced it increased 10fold! We have the case of a man earning a good salary and a woman that marries him for his money, divorcing and then earning a good salary. What for? Equality means that the woman has to sit her ass and work. One would understand the provision of a reasonable amount as ”exit money” to help her stand on her feet alone but that is all – basta! Why the need for a permanent salary on her?

Is it for the kids? Not really because this is given even if there are no kids. If it was for the kids then why that ”salary” must be put in the woman’s account? Why it cannot be put in a common account on the name of both the man and the woman – an account that BOTH the man and the woman should be responsible to fill in according to their means (if the man wins 500 and the woman 400 then let the man put 100 and the woman 80, that is alright) and from there BOTH of them to be able to check where these money are spent.

This is precisely what ”marriage 2.0” fights against. And in that, this is how it makes marriage an unattractive option.

TheOverwatch
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There is no time of year that puts more stress on a marriage than the holidays, especially for people just making ends meet. The husband and wife are constantly bombarded with images of happy families, with brand new clothes, a luxury vehicle, a giant house full of nicely wrapped presents, etc etc. This puts tremendous pressure on them, consciously or not to try and live that fantasy. So what do they do? They will run up credit card bills. In a few months, they’ll be deep in debt, and most of the stuff they bought will be in a landfill somewhere. Financial problems are killer for a marriage. I feel sorry for so many people chasing the American dream.