Maybe It Doesn’t Really Get Better Than This

There are two paths you naturally gravitate towards if you want to have sex with a girl more than once. The first path is to pursue a casual relationship where you see her between 1-3 times a week to hang out at the bar, restaurant, park, seaside, cinema, theater, cupcake shop, or so on before having sex. The relationship doesn’t increase in emotional weight as time goes on, and you both are satisfied with the sexual arrangement for the short term until either of you finds something better or more novel. The second path is one of increasing deepening and commitment. You take trips together, she spends more nights over at your place, you become boyfriend/girlfriend, she moves in with you, you get married, have kids, and then get divorced.

I’m not sure if most men learn game for its purely sexual rewards as described in the first case or for long-term relationships like in the second, but chances are that if you’re reading me, you’re more after sex than commitment. Most of my game efforts for the past 13 years have been the same, and only lately have I pursued longer term relationships—but only slightly—as I find less value in one-night stands or sex with girls less than a couple times. But since emotion and love are not important to me, I find even mini-relationships to be somewhat pointless, mere sexual distractions, since my investment into her is small. She remains only a trivial addition to my life.

I still greatly enjoy sex with women, but if I’m going to maintain a steady state relationship with a girl where the pattern is a 1-3 hour hangout followed by sex and no more, it will become boring. Maybe I could try getting more creative with date ideas, but having sex alone with a girl without deepening it in some way makes the relationship nothing more than basic entertainment that adds no lasting value. We’re using each other for sexual and social benefits and it will likely not last longer than a couple months and that will be all.

Without some investment in terms of love or commitment, how much meaning can the mini-relationship possibly have? This is why it’s been so easy for me to walk away from these girls without regret or second-guessing my decision, and it’s not like girls are begging me either to come back to their city and resume our twice a week sex dates. She’s an easily replaceable sex toy and I’m her easily replaceable cock and there you have it—the pinnacle of modern relationships where both parties remain free and unburdened.

Recently I was on date ten or so with a girl and things were going well, but I wasn’t doing anything to advance the relationship. I started feeling like I was just wasting her time, and finding a replacement would at least give me a novelty boost of happiness. Maintaining a superficial relationship with one girl doesn’t seem to give much more happiness than one-night stands besides being able to raw dog more regularly, and if I wasn’t getting tired of clubs maybe I’d still prowl them four times a week since doing so simulates hunting and provides me with masculine pleasure. Or I could accept the biological destiny of procreating with hopefully the right woman. I did the former enough times that it adds little to my life and I don’t think the latter, of giving away my freedom, is the answer either.

In spite of being in the game as long as I have, I sometimes feel weird urges to turn the mini-relationship into a serious one, especially if I like the girl. I want to contact her more, see her more, and with the girl I mentioned above, I imagined how it would be like to actually live with her—not for having sex on demand but just pair bonding and growing old with someone. These beta commitment fantasies of mine always turn negative as I consider the loss of freedom and privacy with no strong advantage that makes the deal profitable for me. Mini-relationships and harem maintenance are nothing more than entertainment and serious relationships are drudgery, one step away from slavery. Both are unsatisfactory.

So what’s the answer? Is it eternal bachelorhood, of banging a handful of new girls each season, hopping from one new mini-relationship to the next, but achieving no depth or novelty in what you haven’t achieved before, or is it making what could be the biggest mistake of your life by knocking a girl up and riding the fatherhood roller coaster for the next 20 years? I could go out this weekend and hit it hard, maybe getting laid, but my intensive pursuit of sex in the past decade has sated me where I wouldn’t be upset if I failed. Or maybe the answer is that the happiness I have sought in women can’t be achieved at all, and whether I ride the slut carousel or settle down with one girl, I’ll still end up asking myself, “Is this it?”

Read Next: The Rise Of The Mini Relationship

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Derzu Uzala
Derzu Uzala
6 years ago

Get married and then some mistress

Kevin
Kevin
6 years ago
Reply to  Derzu Uzala

Two women sounds like a real headache.

Theses today are anti male commie junk. I say marry one woman but if she does not meet your sexual needs as is her spousal duty- divorce. It’s very unethical for a woman to deny her husband sexual access and is a legitement reason for divorce. I even heard TD Jakes (famous televangelist) telling people to not treat your spouse that way- if they need sex, they need sex. It’s that simple.

Jaaf
Jaaf
6 years ago
Reply to  Kevin

In the West, the male is the loser in divorce.
– Huge financial set back. In most cases, crippling.
– You get alienated from your kids.
– Social and emotional set back.
So when your wife stops giving you that monthly handjob and you start thinking divorce, that’s probably what she actually wants. She gets a younger, richer version of you in a heartbeat.

HawkWrites
6 years ago
Reply to  Kevin

There’s a classic line from the old Disneyland ride Mine Train Through Nature’s Wonderland that goes: “Maybe you folks can tell me though: does gettin’ two women mean you’re the winner… or the loser? Heh, never could figure that one out!”

Ray Wolf
Ray Wolf
6 years ago
Reply to  Derzu Uzala

you need some real money – you pick the right girl for children, one that is relatively humble and doesn’t have all kinds of designs – and you set her up somewhere modest, a couple of grades up from her current status…… that’s NOT going to be your full time home…. you come and go as you please… you have to put time into it, of course but you also have to retreat for yourself.

co-habitation with no where else to go is crap….. sometimes you need your peace for you……and problem is women in LTRs, want you around ceaselessly and pry your life wide open, so if you don’t have real work reasons for coming and going, she’s going to be a pain in the ass….

thus you establish the relationship day one, with clear boundaries that include you being away for ‘work’ for chunks of time… after a while she will not question where you are going……

you put in just enough time, money and effort to keep the happy home, wife and kids ticking along so it’s always there for you….. and you spend enough time away ‘on business’ to be able to carry on doing your own thing.

i had a friend once and it turned out he had kids (and on going relationships) with two different women and a girlfriend and no girl knew about the other…. he bounced around between the three of them according to what suited…..

with just a little organization and careful planning you can have the best of all worlds…. be single and be married.

JackBlack23
JackBlack23
6 years ago

“In spite of being in the game as long as I have, I sometimes feel weird urges to turn the mini-relationship into a serious one, especially if I like the girl.”

That feeling is not “weird” but actually perfectly natural …

” … ‘one-itis’ in game is another word for pair-bonding, and all game practitioners would acknowledge it exists, which is why they take measures to ensure that pair-bonding does not occur. I believe that females pair-bond as well, but as with the bond between child and parent where the parents bonds are stronger than the child’s, between men and women it is also the man’s bonds that are stronger than the females, and it is this way for natural, reproductive/survival purposes.”

Anon.
Anon.
6 years ago
Reply to  JackBlack23

The answer here is obvious, he is falling into a common player trap. Just like sluts become unable to bond, the same applies to men who have desensitized themselves to any kind of human emotion.

Emotion is the end-goal of life. Feeling. We go after money to buy things that give us feeling. We go after women to get feeling, no matter how fleeting. You choose what that feeling is, and how intense it is. It can either be a passing itch in your dick, or something a bit more intense. Just remember the girl you met in Brazil, and the girl you met in Odessa. Do you not learn from experience?

tman2000
tman2000
6 years ago
Reply to  Anon.

I don’t know about that. Women don’t seem comfortable with the level of affection that’s necessary for this emotional relationship you’re describing unless they’ve really really built a special emotional trust with you. This takes a very long time, and involves special circumstances. Usually, it’s the result of being a virgin and then staying with that first person.

Women don’t have what it takes to stay to invest a little trust in the short run to build the necessary trust in the long run. And there’s one real reason: hypergamy. Whatever is the highest value male that woman ever received attention from, her mind is now wired to simply not feel fulfilled by anything lower ever again.

Her morals and goals will never matter, because nothing can replace the sensation of feeling attraction to a man, and that attraction becomes more and more scarce. It’s the problem of the age, because though most women would never admit to this behavior, what could they do about it if they did. They can’t cause themselves to feel attraction.

It’s not a matter of men not being able to bond. Men will chase tail, but are provably emotionally loyal to conscientious kind women in their lives. It’s women that have trouble reciprocating that bond.

Alex
Alex
3 years ago
Reply to  Anon.

Exactly.

All those people who claim that male promiscuity has no effects on divorce rates and marriage happiness, just pull that shit out of their asses. They focus only on the woman’s promiscuity and how it makes her more likely to get a divorce when she gets married. This is true, just as multiple studies show.

But there are no studies for male promiscuity because many people wrongly assume, that because men aren’t as emotional, the ability for a man to effectively pair bond is not affected by his past sexual history. Absolute bullshit.

Anyway, the reality is that it will be too late before a lot of men (players?) realize this, and then they are left unfulfilled asking the world: “what next?”

EEProgrammer
EEProgrammer
6 years ago

– I am an obese 33-year-old freelance programmer living in Eastern Europe, working very hard every day on advancing my financial and business situation to the point where I don’t have to work every day (or even every week) anymore. Right now I am very close to that goal, and with any luck, I should get there within the next month or two, and then I can start eating properly and exercising regularly in order to get myself to look like a man.

I also happen to have the good fortune of being able to function without sex for three to four months, before it gets really bad and then I go after women.

I say women – I go after divorced 40-something women because in this part of Europe many such women are still quite attractive, and they still remember what it means to be a woman for the most part – and not girls, because most girls I ever got involved with wanted a serious relationship leading to marriage.

Not only that, but these girls were actively trying to prevent me from getting ahead. Commitment and marriage are far less of a problem to me than the girl actively trying to keep me down.

Every single one of them had tried to brainwash me into believing that her pussy and her biological clock is more important than anything in my life that actually belongs to me – such as my dreams, goals, and mission in life. What a joke. I guess they thought that if I were to get too far ahead it would take me out of their league or something.

This is in fact true – but that just goes to show that in the early 21st century, the interests of a woman are in direct opposition to those of a man. There are no two ways about that.

So she tries to keep me down, because then I’ll stay down where she is, and she’ll be able to turn me into her own personal slave. And if I were to actually rise up and succeed with my life mission and goals – then I would leave her because she wouldn’t be good enough to follow me.

I’m having none of that crap. That’s where the divorced MILFs come in (because I cannot allow myself to knowingly have sex with a married woman). They are okay for sex once a month or more often if our schedules allow – and then I can get back to work.

My message to you, Roosh, is this: try to find a life mission that’s about you and only you. A life mission which does not involve – or depend on – women. Women should be the salad and the desert – they must never be the main dish, because no matter how great the main dish is, if it contains women it will eventually turn sour, and there is no way around that.

SwedishParsnip
SwedishParsnip
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

Bless you and well done on your efforts on the career front.

EEProgrammer
EEProgrammer
6 years ago
Reply to  SwedishParsnip

Thanks. 🙂

JJ
JJ
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

EE programmer-
What countries are the older women that attractive in?

In America even young girls are looking old and too heavy. The US has biological toxins in its diet.

EEProgrammer
EEProgrammer
6 years ago
Reply to  JJ

I live in Serbia, and over here, women who have good genes, don’t smoke, and take care of themselves – can really look good even into their late 40s.

I’m sure it’s not much different in Hungary or Bosnia or Croatia, or even Bulgaria…

Johnny
Johnny
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

EE Programer-
Any advice for the red pill man stuck in a hell hole like America on how to net 3k/month and be location independent?
Join the Roosh V Forum and Private message me- I’d gladly
Pay you for quality consulting to find a way out of this feminazi gulag Country. America is a living hell for me- I need a way out.
Drop your Roosh forum name and well go from there.

Roosh_V
Roosh_V
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

Why can’t you start eating properly now?

Vallejo Hombre
Vallejo Hombre
6 years ago
Reply to  Roosh_V

Roosh you need to settle the debate once and for all and lay out a clear,
logical plan as to how the obese can loose weight for real.

Broseph
Broseph
6 years ago
Reply to  Vallejo Hombre

How about you just take personal accountability for your own health and stop relying Roosh to solve your personal problems.
What do overweight people need to know about losing weight? Stop eating junk food. Go out and exercise. This info has been around for centuries.

I have no sympathy for fat people. It is a dysfunction that is completely brought on by the individual, much like alcoholism.

Fat people have nothing but excuses for being fat. Every single fat person I’ve ever met has the same excuses. I cannot respect fat people. I’ve seen too much of their mental hamstering over the years to give them any benefit of the doubt.

But I’m sure in your case, your obesity is genetic, right?

Vallejo Hombre
Vallejo Hombre
6 years ago
Reply to  Broseph

I’m actually not a fat guy. Vallejo is in California. How many fat Californians do you know? It’s better than most of the US and if anyone doesn’t believe that search California zip codes and then compare them to other zip codes.

The content should cover that issue of obesirt and fitness as its discussed a lot here. If Roosh could help out the Lindey Wests of the World then We could all be happier.

You sound very insecure and bitter as conclusory as your logic is. Just relax and tell someone you love them as its hard to hold onto hatred when expressing love to others. The ego is detrimental to the whole process as well. I know Roosh pushes fat girls buttons to promote the blog and all but that’s a demographic that could use authentic addressing.’Rooshs next book could be “Roosh V-Get Fit For Game”.

Guest
Guest
6 years ago
Reply to  Broseph

I agree about fat people. This is far too simple. I get tired of the bullshit arguments and excuses about why people are fat and I call people out on it.

tman2000
tman2000
6 years ago
Reply to  Broseph

Obesity is a huge problem because of the way fat cells and hunger hormones interact. It’s not easy to deal with, and being indifferent is just a symptom of ignorance about the difficulties involved. It’s a good argument, at least, for never letting yourself get fat in the first place.

Still, people quit smoking, and drugs. It’s all doable. Especially for men who can build muscle easier than women. Even if you can’t fight your appetite, you can make yourself go workout and build muscle, which will help immensely.

So, I agree that fat people who don’t work out vigorously are just making excuses. But, slow progress and trouble with appetite need to be acknowledged as part of the struggle.

There is also that emotional thing that most fat people deal with having to do with not feeling like they deserve social validation anyway so they might as well be fat. This is a larger problem, one which we need to man up about, because the emotional validation thing is a problem for all modern society. Fundamentally, we men are the ones to fix it, and so as corollary we men should not be fat.

CardinalMethod
CardinalMethod
6 years ago
Reply to  Vallejo Hombre

Lift weights four days a week, walk five to nine miles every day, and consume mainly protein. Not a big secret, people trying to sell you shit just seem to make it more confusing and difficult. If you spend four hours a week lifting, and ten hours walking, while ensuring two of your meals are protein centered, you won’t have the time or urge to satisfy negative compulsions. Find some good podcasts to occupy your mind while you walk.

Col. Kurtz
Col. Kurtz
6 years ago
Reply to  Vallejo Hombre

Eat a plant based diet, low in carbs. The fat melts off of you with no effort, the nutrient inputs to your body are off the charts, your skin glows, you feel amazing physically and mentally, and your risk for lifestyle diseases (diabetes, heart disease, cancer, immune disorders, etc. etc.) is massively reduced.

It’s as simple as getting a Vitamix, filling it full of greens and fruit, blending it up and drinking it down every day. Do that for two months and you’ll be looking at a better man in the mirror.

Some will say to eat lots of protein. Plants are more protein dense than meat so you can get all the protein you want on a plant based diet, though the western diet contains way more protein than the body can actually use. If you’re skewing your meals to be heavy in animal tissue calories you’re missing out on the innumerable vitamins, antioxidants and phytonutrients, not to mention the fiber, that a plant based diet provides.

Brian
Brian
6 years ago
Reply to  Col. Kurtz

Actually, try a KETOGENIC diet to lose weight, stay in shape and keep healthy: High saturated fat, moderate protein, and very low carbs:

http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com

tickletik
tickletik
6 years ago
Reply to  Vallejo Hombre

Livestrong.com

Free, and has everything you need. Follow the workouts religiously and you’ll succeed

EEProgrammer
EEProgrammer
6 years ago
Reply to  Roosh_V

Or, if I really want to be honest with myself and with you – a lack of willpower that I don’t know how to overcome. So this is the way way in which I am trying to overcome it. To get myself to where I don’t have to work anymore, and then to start eating properly and exercising because my work is really demanding.

Root
Root
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

The way you think is understandable given the pressure you work under and your goals, but it is a while loop, until you get there. Age is a one way street; limited number of iterations.

Try 5×5 Stronglifts/ Rippetoes and eat protein. It usually only takes 3 – 5 hours a week depending on how how hard you’re willing to push.

Don’t feed the beta hamster with excuses. It will grow and then take over you.

DH
DH
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

Very well spoken. But be careful. All the financial freedom in the world means nothing if your health is suffering. Do not neglect your body, your temple, in the pursuit of ambitions. Make time for your health and fitness. You want to be young, rich, & healthy. Not young, rich, and sick.

DH
DH
6 years ago
Reply to  DH

And the best to you in your business. You will get to the top.

EEProgrammer
EEProgrammer
6 years ago
Reply to  DH

Thank you. Yes, I was thinking about that. I start trying to exercise and to eat properly, and then I just end up feeling too good to be able to concentrate on work.

And just then my clients load me up with work… Oh well – if all goes well, I’ll be retiring within a month or two… 🙂

j
j
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

Your mentality is completely wrong. I used to think the same way. If I reach goal A, then I will have time to work out and get healthy. The problem is something else always comes up. You will push you health goals further and further back. You need to have a better work life balance and start taking care of your health now. Once your health is gone, no amount of time or money is worth anything.

EdwardJi
EdwardJi
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

It seems that you are aware that you are making empty excuses for your health, which is the most valuable thing in your life. You know that going from obese to toned can take years of dedicated effort and postponing it will only make it harder. You know that it takes negligible effort to fix your diet and beginning an exercise program of daily walking, in order to shed those first few kilos, is within anyone’s reach. You can listen to audiobooks etc or make business calls as you walk.

If you’re serious about fixing your relationship with your body, I suggest seeking professional help from a cognitive behavioural therapist. Obesity is a symptom of mental disorders on the addiction spectrum. By addiction, I mean that the pleasure-reward seeking system in a person’s brain (which is instinctively ‘addicted’ to forming habits that promote our survival) has been trained to form habits that result in disease. Your willpower is not the root of the problem and is the wrong tool to fix it. You need to learn new habits, which is very hard to do without the help of someone who can guide you and keep you on track. By all means get a book on CBT, but try your best to find a CBT therapist with experience in eating disorders. Good luck.

John
John
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

Eat an apple and drink a pint of water every time you feel hungry.
Drink as much water as possible and if you have to have fizzy drinks, have diet only. Better still is sparkling water. Try and eat high quality umami with natural yoghurt for breakfast so you start the day feeling full.

Whatever your ‘vice food’ is, replace it with something healthy/healthier, so the small changes result in a larger reduction in calories.
Chocolate bars = chocolate protein shakes/bars
Fried breakfast = scrambled eggs, turkey rashers, whole grain toast
Soda = diet soda or sparkling water
Cookies = protein cookies
McDonald’s = chicken and throw the buns
Crisps = biltong

EEProgrammer
EEProgrammer
6 years ago
Reply to  John

John,

Thank you very much for this advice. I have copied it and pasted into a Word file on my computer and saved it. It will definitely come in handy.

bucky
bucky
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

cultivate a strong feeling of shame about your obesity. because it is shameful. once you’ve come to feel sufficiently ashamed of your bloated, unmanly, disgusting body, you’ll figure out what works best for you to get lean and athletic, and you’ll follow through and do the work to lose the weight.

hint: eat a lot, but only healthy things. being hungry is not helpful.

Dunkerbeck
Dunkerbeck
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

I think Roosh’s life was about his experience with women, now it has been about selling his experience with women. Maybe he is done with it, then he should move on…

Nick
6 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

Is working hard to not have to work hard in the future your life mission? I’m confused by all the up votes you’ve gotten, especially given the fact that you’re self-admittedly obese and pursuing women 20 years past their prime. You shouldn’t be giving out advice.

Captain Courageous
Captain Courageous
5 years ago
Reply to  EEProgrammer

EEProgrammer your life ahead will be a great experience !
Unlike too many males, you’ve worked out an enabling strategy.
Even in my 20’s I actively “hunted” for the mid 30’s to late 40’s women, they were the ripened fruit willing to devoured.

Charles Vermont
Charles Vermont
6 years ago

It is natural to feel this way as you get older.

What isn’t natural is today’s SMP — uncontrolled hamsters, anti-male Family Law, crap culture and female entitlements amuck. All these factors get in the way of what used to be basic male/female relations (for better or worse).

Thus, “the loss of freedom and privacy with no strong advantage that makes the deal profitable” is completely logical vis-a-vis today’s SMP.

“Or maybe the answer is that the happiness I have sought in women can’t be achieved at all…”

Don’t seek happiness in other people. Seek it through self-improvement and making (the right) other people happy. Then, it will come around.

Offended?
Offended?
6 years ago

If I could upvote this a million times i would.

Mofo
Mofo
6 years ago

Yep, find something you are passionate about that has nothing to do with being a clown for women, and then throw yourself into it. The women will still be there whenever you want them.

Painful Rectal Itch
Painful Rectal Itch
6 years ago
Reply to  Mofo

Thanks. I’ll do that, good sir.

Flavinous
Flavinous
6 years ago

You’re in a catch 22.

These longings for a relationship are your biological clock telling you to procreate. Problem is you’re not so young anymore and if you become a father now it would be devastating to you as you’d lose your carefree lifestyle. Plus your business model is based on being a bachelor. So it would mean finding another way to earn a living. But on the other hand, if you don’t, the longing is going to worse and worse.

So you’re in catch 22, learn to live with it.

Broseph
Broseph
6 years ago
Reply to  Flavinous

Dealing with women is the ultimate catch 22. There is no way to win. Sometimes you make gains and temporarily get what want or need, but that’s where it ends.

There is no happily ever after, in life or love. Gotta accept it, then at some point embrace it.

Thelatentsadist
Thelatentsadist
6 years ago
Reply to  Broseph

Having loved a few women thus far, I’ve come to the same belief. The women I’ve loved the most were the quickest out of my life. The manosphere likes to call it oneitis, but we shouldn’t cast this phenomenon in such a shameful light. You’ll notice non of the major bloggers ever admitting to knowing how to keep women you love. Love is inherently unstable, and has been so throughout history. Novels movies from as far back as you can find have tales of “oneitis”. Love is like playing with drugs….it usually ends and the letdown from the high is brutal. I think we ought to just acknowledge the fleeting nature of love and not advocate player life as “the only way to go” in a shaming way…because the player lifestyle only acknowledges the reality that women come and go.

Captain Courageous
Captain Courageous
5 years ago

You’ve hit it in the right place, good wrap !

invisiblehand85
invisiblehand85
6 years ago
Reply to  Flavinous

Illegitimate offspring then abandoning. Find places where there is no legal recourse. It’s nature’s way. It goes on all the time in the world–alphas siring and abandoning offspring and mothers. Those are nature’s true alpha males.

Otherwise it’s either eternal, childless bachelorhood or give in and commit. I’m not okay with either.

It’s the only solution to the procreation dilemma.

Atlanta Man
Atlanta Man
6 years ago

I look at it like this, focus on your money and find a main girl whom you can trust for when you want to have kids. Do not marry her but “wifey” her, it keeps her on her toes. Have a second apartment in the city, do your other women and hang out with your friends there. Shied your assets but take proper care of your children and your ” wifey”. That is the players endgame in my eyes.

Jaaf
Jaaf
6 years ago
Reply to  Atlanta Man

Married or unmarried is legally exactly the same if you have kids with a female in the West, she’s got you by the balls. You’re the one on your toes, not her. Kids change everything.

Rollo Tomassi
6 years ago

You should read this Roosh:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/08/29/as-good-as-it-gets/

As Good as it Gets

So where does that leave us? Back in 2003 Tom Leykis once had a great rant about how being an unmarried man, spinning plates in his mid-twenties to mid-thirties, was as good as it gets. I’m beginning to think this was more than a bit prophetic. I’ve written six individual post about the various aspects of Plate Theory, and although I presented the options for both a continued plate spinning plan and a path, at least, towards monogamy from plate theory, I’m starting to wonder if a continued, indefinite, commitment-ambiguity isn’t simply as good as it gets for men today.

[…]

But what if as good as it gets is simply entertaining a succession of non-committed, non-exclusive relationships? In essence, a sustainable plate spinning until such time as a woman demands committed monogamy, and then she’s replaced with a new plate and the cycle continues.

Ray Wolf
Ray Wolf
6 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

the problem is that replacing them, gradually becomes tedious and it’s certainly time consuming… even keeping a casual relationship on tap can involve lots of distraction and effort, endless (boring) dates and etc.

make some money, support a wife and kids and setup a sugar daddy situation on the side…

Dawson Stone
6 years ago

I have an alternative suggestion. If I had to do it over again I think this is how I would do it. You are a decent looking guy and I am sure very charming.

Surely you must have met a woman or 2 over the years that contacted you after you stopped dating and asked you to father a child with her. I have had 4 in total ask me to do this.

The one that would have made the most sense was the first girl I had sex with after I got separated from my now ex-wife. She was 29 at the time, beautiful, was a professional dancer and had her own modern dance studio for kids and made a nice income. She was AMAZING with kids, smart, fun and quite a good lover. We dated for a month and I was honest and told her I couldn’t give her what she needed. She wanted a serious relationship and I was going through a divorce. We remained friends (not FWB but just friends) and emailed and texted now and then.

Seven or eight years later she called me (she never called me) and told me her and her bf of two years had just broken up and she simply was out of time to meet the right guy and have kids with him…so she was going to have a kid on her own. She wanted sperm from a person she knew and not an anonymous donor.

She had even gone as far as to have legal documents drawn up stating I would have no financial or parenting responsibility (although she was happy to include me in the child’s life if that was what I wanted). Since she had given this so much thought I respectfully asked her for 24 hours to consider it. She joked I could donate my sperm “the old fashion way” or through a doctor…my choice. We laughed and hung up.

Honestly, if it wasn’t for me already having a daughter I would have done it. She had great genes, didn’t need money from me and was going to be a great mom. My problem (that you don’t have) is that I couldn’t do that to my current daughter. It seemed cruel and unfair.

Find that woman that wants your baby but not you! Then you can be a Dad and either control the costs or potentially eliminate them altogether plus remain totally single. The nicest part about this approach is that instead of being the asshole that married and dumped her with a kid you are the GREAT GUY that was kind enough to do something unorthodox and provide your seed. Everyone wins. Fuck if only I had a time machine!

Mofo
Mofo
6 years ago
Reply to  Dawson Stone

This honestly seems to be the worst of all possible worlds. I have no children of my own but I too have been asked several times to be a “donor” for women I know. I had to decline each one, because the thought of having offspring but not having daily input into their raising, yet still being on the hook financially should the woman later change her mind about single motherhood, made my blood run cold.

Dawson Stone
6 years ago
Reply to  Mofo

You can cover both of those issues with agreements in advance of agreeing to father the child.

Mofo
Mofo
6 years ago
Reply to  Dawson Stone

The first issue is a practical consideration, not a contractual one. The second is likely unenforceable. You cannot, in any state that I know of, contract away an acknowledged paternity. If she changes her mind and can no longer care for the child, guess what, you are on the hook, contract or no contract.

Dawson Stone
6 years ago
Reply to  Mofo

I agree there are always risks but the co-parenting is enforceable. And yup, if she dies, becomes incapacitated, etc. you are going to have to care for the child. But I assume if you want to have a child that would be what you would want.

Mofo
Mofo
6 years ago
Reply to  Dawson Stone

What I don’t want is limited input into a child’s formative years and then, bam, full responsibility once that child has largely been raised by someone else (and likely her succession of boyfriends as well). A co-parenting agreement may be “enforceable” but if the child is not actually living under your roof, you are not actually raising that child. I think you gotta either go all in on parenting or go your own way–I have opted for the latter. Half-assing it is asking for trouble and fucked-up kids even in a best-case scenario.

Dawson Stone
6 years ago
Reply to  Mofo

I have lived separately from my daughter since she was 1 and haven’t half-assed my parenting at all. My daughter is happy and well adjusted, a good athlete, straight A student, appreciative, respectful and kind.

Your points are of course totally valid. My point was that if one WAS going to have a child you at least don’t risk loss of assets, a costly and painful divorce, being the “asshole” that divorced her, alimony, etc. Having a child is a huge risk regardless as they can also health, mental and emotional issues having nothing to do with their upbringing.

i was saying if I had to do it again (and I love being a Dad) that’s how I would do it. Risks? Sure. But way better than the normal marriage, divorce path.

SUPRA luca
SUPRA luca
6 years ago
Reply to  Dawson Stone

“My daughter is happy and well adjusted, a good athlete, straight A student, appreciative, respectful and kind.”
No, by the men on this site your daughter is just an evil cunt who is irrational and inferior like all girls/women and who is soon to be a dirty slut riding the alpha cock carousel. She will use men, be hypergamic and always cheat. No woman is kind, they just fake very well. Women should be subjugated too, so you better teach her to be a subordinate and submissive woman. Being a good athlete and student (which is a lie, as women are all dumb and illogical) is worthless – women are supposed to be married, raise their kids and obey their men, not have a voice in the world.

Dawson Stone
6 years ago
Reply to  SUPRA luca

lol. Wow. Hate much.

My daughter won’t need to use men because I have taken care of her financially. She will be with a man only because she wants to be, not because she needs to be. This frees her up to be a fantastic human being that isn’t worried about her survival or the survival of her child(ren)

You sound like a sociopath. Good luck with that.

Painful Rectal Itch
Painful Rectal Itch
6 years ago
Reply to  Dawson Stone

“You can cover both of those issues with agreements in advance of agreeing to father the child.”

You’re a fucking idiot.

Dawson Stone
6 years ago

lol. From the guy that thinks “religion can play a vital role to a mans spiritual development” I will take that as a compliment.

Jay
Jay
6 years ago
Reply to  Dawson Stone

well now imagine that one day somebody told such story but you was that child…. now what you think???

Dawson Stone
6 years ago
Reply to  Jay

huh?

Jaaf
Jaaf
6 years ago
Reply to  Dawson Stone

Dawson, you make a good point but the risk is extremely high. You were apparently just very lucky. Most women vilify the father of their child until the child is brainwashed and cannot but secretly or openly resent his/her father.

Dawson Stone
6 years ago
Reply to  Jaaf

Sadly I wasn’t that lucky. I had a really rough 3 years after we split where I had to constantly undo the damage my ex-wife inflicted. But it eventually backfired and as a result my daughter adores me. To be fair, I made pretty herculean efforts to be in her life and ultimately it worked out. My ex and I get along well now but it was hard fought.

I wonder if we had a child but were never married if I could have skipped that 3 year nightmare.

invisiblehand85
invisiblehand85
6 years ago
Reply to  Dawson Stone

I’m extremely interested in this.

Possible to get in touch?

Roberto
Roberto
6 years ago

Roosh
Have you ever been with blondes as fine as prime years Jenny McCarthy?

Roosh_V
Roosh_V
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberto

Yes

Hugo
Hugo
6 years ago
Reply to  Roosh_V

What cities did you find girls of that caliber?

Nomad77
Nomad77
6 years ago

You may be missing out on a certain type of relationship where you have really great “chemistry” with a girl. You can feel this the moment you meet her and it never decreases. These are the girls I seek and keep around. It’s hard to explain what being with these girls are like. You just have to experience it yourself. It’s not about sex or love or anything like that. And you can spend a lot of time with them and it doesn’t get boring. It’s like hanging out with a good guy friend you like but with sexual attraction thrown into the mix.

Jalisco
Jalisco
6 years ago

Author
You’ve discussed you Dad and step brother who is young. How old was your Dad when he had you and him?
What’s a realistic maximum age a man should have a kid at?

Roosh_V
Roosh_V
6 years ago
Reply to  Jalisco

He was in his mid 20’s.

I’m the last man you should ask about fatherhood.

Broseph
Broseph
6 years ago
Reply to  Jalisco

My dad was 54 when my youngest brother was born. A healthy man can put off fatherhood for quite some time, within reason of course. I would not recommend having kids in your 60s. Even a healthy man in his 60s will not have the energy to deal with young children.

asshole
asshole
6 years ago
Reply to  Broseph

I don’t have the energy to deal with children, and i’m in my twenties.

Science
Science
6 years ago
Reply to  Broseph

Actually studies are being to show that there is a link between advanced paternal age and autism, Down Syndrome, and schizophrenia. Also as a man ages the sperm usually have a decrease in both count and mobility. The idea that a man has perfect reproductive capability from puberty to death is largely a myth. Sure there have been cases of super old men having kids, just like sometimes a 50 year old woman gets pregnant. Current studies show that most men by 55-60 cannot father a child. So yes you can put it off, and you run the risk.

SUPRA luca
SUPRA luca
6 years ago
Reply to  Broseph

No men should EVER give his seed to procreation after their mid 30’s. He might be healthy, but his sperm is already trash. That is evolutionary failure. Too high of a risk of defection and will always bring slower, weaker offspring. Tell your idiotic dad I loathe him for his lack of responsibility and consideration for the human kind.

Lai
Lai
6 years ago
Reply to  SUPRA luca

My father was 50 when he had me. I’ve a pretty strong academic record and I plan to swim the English channel next month.

Christopher Bear
6 years ago

hmmmmmm………..both sound fine to me

Painful Rectal Itch
Painful Rectal Itch
6 years ago

” You take trips together, she spends more nights over at your place, you become boyfriend/girlfriend, she moves in with you, you get married, have kids, and then get divorced.”

Depressing but true how divorce will be inevitable.

Painful Rectal Itch
Painful Rectal Itch
6 years ago

“But since emotion and love are not important to me, I find even mini-relationships to be somewhat pointless…”

I almost envy you for your detachment, but I couldn’t go on without some kind of emotional aspect with a chick even if the fling is temporary. But I’m not stupid enough to believe in ‘love’.

And your final question is something all men ask about life in general, so all I can say is welcome to the club.

CardinalMethod
CardinalMethod
6 years ago

Once you’ve had enough women, it’s easy to lose the desire to connect with them emotionally.

Aaron
Aaron
6 years ago
Reply to  CardinalMethod

BULLSEYE. Happiness is always an option, you just have to define it for yourself & run with it.

invisiblehand85
invisiblehand85
6 years ago

This is the best material on the internet

JustMe
JustMe
6 years ago

You need Jesus. You sound completely disillusioned and detached from life and reality because your entire existence has been consumed by seeking hedonistic pleasures which will never fulfill a mans soul.

Joe
Joe
6 years ago
Reply to  JustMe

Yours right.

Every man struggles with virtues of the Divine and the needs of the flesh. We
all need validation from God and man and our pride gets in the way of both desires of our heart. I won’t lie- its a challenge.

Broseph
Broseph
6 years ago
Reply to  JustMe

Give me a break. Completely detaching from reality via religion is the worst thing a person can do. It’s defeatism at it’s finest.

“I can’t deal with life, so I will subscribe to ancient fairy tales in order to cope.”

People who subscribe to literal interpretations of religion are dangerous, unstable, and to be avoided at all costs, especially those who are “born again.” They are telegraphing to the world that they have lost much of their sanity and are desperate for answers, real or imagined.

Painful Rectal Itch
Painful Rectal Itch
6 years ago
Reply to  Broseph

“Give me a break. Completely detaching from reality via religion is the worst thing a person can do. It’s defeatism at it’s finest”

Moderation in everything. I’m no holy roller but can see where religion can play a vital role to a mans spiritual development that a hairy clam that is attached to a self entitled hormonal driven pig cannot once you pump 2 liters of cum in her.

That said, too much religion is not good either.

Broseph
Broseph
6 years ago

That’s a reasonable analysis. Everything in moderation. I can see casually embracing certain aspects of a religion. Pick and choose which parts you like, throw out the others.

I just see too many people completely run off the rails and dive headlong into religion and make it the focus of their collapsing life overnight. They fully and ignorantly embrace every aspect of the religion, desperately believing that it will somehow provide answers to their problems in life.

When this occurs, they usually spiral further down the rabbit hole of mental illness, as most religions are very abstract and leave much to interpretation.

Mofo
Mofo
6 years ago
Reply to  Broseph

Agree. I call myself a “cultural Christian” even though the divinity of Christ strikes me as patently absurd. You can hold traditional Christian values without believing they were doled out millennia ago on stone tablets by the Flying Spaghetti Monster. IMO, the current role of Christianity appears to be absolving directionless people of their sin, rather than its traditional role of providing a solid cultural foundation on which to better prevent sin to begin with.

asshole
asshole
6 years ago
Reply to  Mofo

“the current role of Christianity appears to be absolving directionless people of their sin, rather than its traditional role of providing a solid cultural foundation on which to better prevent sin to begin with.”

I’m gonna steal this line from you.

Infantry
Infantry
6 years ago

I think a lack of spirituality can be detrimental to any man’s life. Red Pill ideology promotes hyper-rational thought above all else, denigrating the spiritual and emotional into ‘traps’ that need to be avoided.

If you go to far down that path, you lose much of what it means to be human and can fall into depression. Ask me how I know.

I think non-denominational exploration of spirituality and defining the spiritual in whatever form makes sense to you is healthy and should be used to round out any Renaissance Man. Start with meditation and go from there.

Mofo
Mofo
6 years ago
Reply to  Infantry

If by “spirituality” you mean quiet self-reflection, or taking solitary time to appreciate the wonders of nature or contemplate the infinite vastness of the physical universe, then I agree. But anything “spiritual” that relies on believing in made up stories seems to me to be wholly incompatible with Red Pill.

Infantry
Infantry
6 years ago
Reply to  Mofo

That’s why I said to define it for yourself. Stripping away the ideology and religion from the practice of spirituality is perfectly ok and its what I do.

If you manage to achieve what Buddhists would call ‘enlightenment’ through meditation though you might have a hard time accepting the experience as just a chemical reaction in your brain, even as you reject anyone else’s explanation for it.

Broseph
Broseph
6 years ago

Being a lifelong player is too extreme. Getting married is the other extreme.

Mini relationships or a casual girlfriend are really the only sensible options these days. Both situations can be complicated though.

Mini relationships always end. Either the girl wants more, or she gets bored. Then you’re back into the pickup cycle, which is a pain in the ass.

Being in a casual relationship is lame too, but not nearly as bad as marriage. I’ve been dating my GF for nearly 2 years. She’s ok. But it’s really boring now. We’ve had sex so many times that it’s really not fun or exciting anymore. Getting out of this thing would be a huge headache because we live together, I’ve interacted with her family, etc.

You can’t have everything you want in life. Unfortunately, there will always be a need to compromise on some things.

Who cares anyway? At the rate things are going, interacting with women in any capacity will be futile at best, dangerous to you in the worst case scenario.

Mini relationships or casual monogamous relationships are the best option for most normal men.

Mad Max
Mad Max
6 years ago

I think a man’s life plan doesn’t have as much to do about what he does. It has more to do what he does at the time in his life in which he does it.

For men 18 to early 20’s I would recommend they concentrate on education and work experience. At this age you can also mess around with woman, but I would recommend making that a secondary or even lower priority. (In fact, seeing colleges are booting out men every day on false rape accusations, you it might just be a good idea to forget about them altogether at this stage.)

Once a man acquires his education, usually around age 23-25, he should focus equally on his career and women. This is where he builds not only his confidence and career, but his game and true understanding about the nature of women. A man at this stage should shy away from LTR’s.

As a man comes to hit his 30th birthday he should start taking some time to reflect on what he would like in life. Some men would like children. Other men would like to build businesses and acquire power. Also, still at this point some men are not completely sure.

If a man would like to have a family, he should then switch his priority over to find a woman to birth his children. She should be younger then him and a good match. I would also recommend at least a two year LTR before any consideration of the question of marriage. (I also see no problem with having children outside of wedlock, but I think if you do so you are asking for more legal and social problems then you are missing by not marrying.)

Any man that takes this path should do his best to raise his children to be as strong and bright as their genetics will allow. Also any man that chooses this path should accept the downfalls with it. That will be a loss of his freedom and liberty and also a good 50% chance his marriage will at some point in time fail. That his why his concentration should be on his children and not his wife.

If a man does not desire children the he should spend his 30’s and upward years focusing on developing something else that is permanent. That means building a strong business, becoming a pillar of the community, mentoring younger men, or something similar. If you are not going to build a family then at least build some sort of enduring societal institution.

The man who takes this path also must accept some of it’s possible downfalls. Those are typically depression, loneliness, and regrets about not reproducing. That is why he must focus of building that enduring societal institution he would like to exist his natural days on earth.

If a man does not know what path he should take come his early 30’s, then he should continue to focus on his career and women for at least a few more years while reflecting on the paths available to him or he will have to choose the default path which is bachelorhood. If that does happen then his only option is to descend into a life of emptiness or to attempt to build something of value by dedicating his time and effort toward it.

I see these as the most logical paths that men can take to attain some kind of lifelong fulfillment. I would be curious what others think though.

SUPRA luca
SUPRA luca
6 years ago
Reply to  Mad Max

“In fact, seeing colleges are booting out men every day on false rape accusations”
Yes, that is happening every single day. Uh hu.

Clark Kent
Clark Kent
6 years ago

I think it is funny how when we call it “beta-dreams” it automatically sounds derogatory.

Felix46
Felix46
6 years ago

Notice how the last four words at the end of the first paragraph aren’t a joke

Drone12
Drone12
6 years ago

Roosh, read or reread Chapter 12 of the book The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida.

Dylan
Dylan
6 years ago
Reply to  Drone12

just read it – that was great. i recommend it roosh

Luisaceo
6 years ago

Your whole life is shaped around chasing pussy, but after gathering so many notches and experiences, it’s obvious that you are not going to get the same happiness from repeating them. You need to start focusing on the bigger picture and find something different that motivates you.

Even if you knock a girl up, it doesn’t mean that you’d need to marry her. Fatherhood is probably a natural step in a man’s life once he has his shit sorted (financially, maturely etc), which it seems that you do. Obviously having a kid would result in a loss of freedom, but not being tied up with a girl would mean you’d still be able to do many things you enjoy now (although it is true that kids usually grow up better in a traditional family environment). Alternatively, you could keep focusing on girls, but settling down in a particular city and enjoying it on a slower pace, making friends etc.

You also might want to think on other ways of expanding your business (writing fiction books?) which you seem to be doing already through your youtube channel. Who knows, perhaps you’d benefit from doing something completely different like going to SEA and learning to surf, which you seemed to enjoy on A Dead Bat In Paraguay.

Whatever you do, it clearly seems that chasing pussy over and over again in a nomadic fashion isn’t bringing you the happiness it once did. These are just suggestions that ultimately would result in women being just another part of your life, but yet again I’ve got no idea what it is to live a life like yours and your lifestyle seems ideal for me and most of your readers so I’m in no position to give advice.

James Davidson
James Davidson
6 years ago

I think the answer, ultimately, is to find fulfillment in yourself regardless of your situation. I was once engaged to a great girl who treated me like a king, but after six years together I broke up with her and ended the engagement because I was “bored” and wanted to play the field. That was fun for awhile and then that got boring. So I settled into a relationship with another girl for a couple years, then i got bored and broke up with her to continuing playing the field. Then that got bored and so on…. you get the idea. Figure out which path makes the sense, accept there are no perfect people and enjoy whatever path you choose to its fullest. The end.

Tom Dane
Tom Dane
6 years ago
NYC Jeff
NYC Jeff
6 years ago

Good lord. Pull your head out of your ass. You drone on and on and make things more complicated then they are. You exhibit clear signs of clinical depression and are estranged from some members of your family. Fix that with treatment, maybe meds, realize family very important, and you won’t be so needy and confused. Traveling and women r great, but if you have a huge hole in the middle of you they don’t solve that.