I occasionally hear men exclaim how they successfully used game to find a beautiful girlfriend or loving foreign bride. They didn’t need God at all to land her but a set of social skills they learned from a book, or merely the ability to purchase a ticket to Thailand, and now intend to live happily ever after. While a few secular men will hit the lottery and get lucky with relationships, most will find that theories of attraction and game are nowhere near enough to create and maintain a lifelong bond.
Game is a secular tool and therefore any woman you get from it will also be secular. The more that game “worked” on your woman, the more secular she is, and if you successfully used game on a self-described “Christian” woman, she may need to examine her faith. All secular unions that involve game or physical attraction are transactional, driven by temporary feelings of happiness, pleasure, and pride. Such a relationship may give you a high amount of satisfaction in the short-term, but those feelings will quickly change. The eyes will start to roam, the desire for something novel will grow, and the cold heart will move on to something more exciting, causing the relationship to deteriorate or end.
If you find a woman who doesn’t have God in her life, no matter how beautiful or moral she may be, her thoughts, words, and deeds are being driven by a secular and materialistic foundation. She may give you pleasure in the here and now, and she may even give you children, but what happens when she inevitably gets bored of you or tired of being your wife? What happens when another man offers her a better deal that makes her believe she will be happier? Besides, how loyal can a secular woman really be? Outside of our loyalty to Christ, there is no loyalty among man, and what may seem like loyalty to you is really a feeling of resignation that you’re the best she could get from sampling all the other goods on the sexual market. She stays with you just like how I stay with the car I’m driving—it would be too arduous and perhaps too expensive to swap it out for another. I’ll deal with it until it completely breaks down, which in the secular female mind means “I’m not happy” or “I’m bored.”
A devout Christian woman has loyalty to Christ. She wants to serve Him now and be fully rewarded in the next life for her faith. This means allowing her husband to serve as priest of the “little church” they created through the sacrament of marriage, to follow Him as she would Christ. She is not constantly looking for a better deal because there is no better deal beyond Christ, and she knows that a lasting union will aid in her salvation. Satan will tempt her, and she may make mistakes, but we pray that such a woman can maintain her faith and serve her husband as he serves her.
A spiritual union that fails is a spiritual battle that was lost, the triumph of evil over good in that particular church, instead of the case of a secular woman who just wanted to feel sexy or get attention from men who knew how to push her emotional buttons. For those men who found a secular woman, and are convinced that game will preserve the relationship, they will learn the hard way that only God can preserve a relationship. The temporary joy they are receiving will soon be exposed for what it really is—a fleeting transaction that resembles the buying and selling of stocks like we see today in a culture that promotes the constant swapping in and out of romantic partners.
“But Roosh, game really does work! I started using it and I got a girl!” Tell me about that girl. Tell me about her lack of faith, her lack of daily prayer rule, her lack of desire to serve as the Body of Christ in his Church. Are you sure your game reward is not a punishment? Are you sure that the social moves and tricks you learned didn’t thrust you into bed with a woman who knows even more tricks than you? Game is simply the exercise of becoming a bad actor to attract a bad actress—you will receive exactly what you are. So what if you lack confidence or are socially awkward. So what if you’re nervous around women and don’t know what to say. As a Christian man, put your faith in God to match you with a woman who is suitable for you and all your flaws instead of acting like a clown for the short entirety of any union you create through your own power.
When I meet a woman today, I’m nice, perhaps excessively so. I may slouch my body, smile in meekness, and not use any of the game tricks I’ve spent nearly two decades mastering. If she is a worldly woman, she will be turned off immediately and run into the arms of a man who spends more time at the bench press than bowing before the Holy Altar, who knew that she needed entertaining stories, a cocky attitude, and a t-shirt one size too small, but a Christian woman would not be turned off by me, for she will see me as a faithful servant of Christ. “He is like Christ; he is a man who will bring me closer to Him. Lord, if this man is for me, let your will be known.” And if there is no woman like this then I will exist in my little church of one, and serve Him alone instead of a worldly woman who, through ignorance or pride, serves Satan.
Don’t believe all the men online who brag about their “perfect” girlfriends or wives. It’s a simple matter to broadcast to the world how secular strivings lead to secular results. A huge part of the American economy is based on schemes, technology, and social networking platforms that cater to this very fact. Through photos or text, you can share the news of your hot girlfriend, awesome vacation, or expensive car. “Look at me, I’m permanently happy! And if you give me your attention, praise, or money, you’ll be happy too!” Yet I’m sure you know someone who makes their lives appear fabulous online when in reality they’re miserable. The lie here is “my life is better than yours” or “my girl is hotter than yours.” If someone required strangers online to validate them, their life is not as good as they make it out to be, because a genuinely good life is validation enough.
The more someone publicly boasts of their “happiness,” the less happy they are. They want people to compliment or praise them to keep their pyramid scheme of pleasure going. I did the very same thing with my travel efforts. I presented sex stories with foreign women in such an adventurous and rewarding light that many men wanted to duplicate my efforts, but if my sex travels were so great, why did I stop? Why did I renounce it all, including the lucrative writings that came from it?
The less game you know and have to use, the better. You’ll still have to embrace your God-given masculinity, and you must possess the basic confidence and strength to keep your wife and future family safe, but you don’t need to be outgoing, cocky, or smooth. You don’t even need to be attractive beyond maintaining basic hygiene and refraining from sloth and gluttony when it concerns your bodily physique. I can’t stress that the more secular methods you use to “improve” yourself—and we must take self-improvement to mean “being prideful and falling out of God’s grace”—the more you will get a secular woman. On the other hand, the more spiritual means you use to find a woman, the more spiritual she will be, and before you start complaining that there are no spiritual women out there, the reality is that God keeps his best women away from those with weak faith. Develop your faith and you will meet more women while you practice that faith, and one may become your wife.
You can argue that I’ve internalized so much game that I’m using it without knowing. I am still adept at reading body language and maintaining conversations, for example, but the seeds of those skills were within me from the beginning, just like how you may have naturally-given social or intellectual abilities that others don’t. Everything else I’ve thrown overboard. All my lines and moves which I shared in my books are atrophying at a rapid pace, soon to be forever forgotten. I don’t consciously use game anymore, because I know that if I do, I will just get me the same old result of the past, of a woman looking for a man to save her existence when really she needs Christ to save her soul. Let the blind pair bond with the blind, but I am no longer blind, and only a woman who has eyes to see will be a match for me.
Read Next: Game Is For Fallen Women
What about Augustine’s Two Cities? The secular relationship is meant to be connected with the espiritual, too. You also have Christ wine-related intervention on Canaan’s wedding. You can have both. Besides, we are not angelic creatures that can attract women without a retort to the lower part of man. The point is not to erase that completely. Augustine says that you will continuously fall, but this does not mean that you must severe your life completely. Proverbs and Wisdom books are full of practical and mundane advice.
On the other hand, Christ prefers those who do not deal with women at all, so if you keep so close to you faith, rather than getting a wife, it is more probable that God will not send you a woman at all, as a way to congratulate you.
PM me for sex sweety. I’ll take bbfs from $500.
This is a good point. Roosh also does not address the droves of “born again” women who were previously promiscuous (including porn stars) who return to the church in search of a provider male who will not “question their past.” Many churches actively encourage these beta men to wife up these women, which is a pretty terrible idea.
That is indeed a huge problem,Gawd Warrior. Given I am a baggage-free soon to be 28 year old widower, with no kids and his life together, many “born again women†are looking for a Beta provider target. Some older married women in my church and social group seem determined to “set me up†with such women. They incorrectly may think I am that target, some patsy to wife up recent carrousel riders, which I will NOT do, of course.
I have been encouraged by non-Christian friends to take advantage of the situation, but I refuse. If I do not see at least the possibility of a future with a woman, I will end it or not even start it.
My advice is also NOT to date within your own church group, esepcailly if you like your church community. That is a sure-fire way to burn yourself for having 1 bad date to be accused of being a “bad seed within the church†or be accused of being a playa or something. *sigh* *roll eyes*
Great article, thank you Roosh. I agree with your sentiments.
**A huge part of the American economy is based on schemes, technology, and social networking platforms that cater to this very fact. Through photos or text, you can share the news of your hot girlfriend, awesome vacation, or expensive car. “Look at me, I’m permanently happy! And if you give me your attention, praise, or money, you’ll be happy too!**
Thank you great post. I’m reminded of the great truth-teller of our time and Christian Rene Girard whose theory of “mimetic desire” you’ve summarised here very well. Which is really parphrasing the Tenth Commandment:
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.â€
Girard himself is a Catholic but interprets the Bible anthropologically. He offers a naturalistic account of God / religion / culture, which for him are continuous: religion / God marking the transition from nature to culture, beast to man, originating in sacrificial murder.
The meaning of the Bible culminating in Christ’s self-sacrifice is to reveal the “scapegoat mechanism”, i.e unlike archaic religion, to take the side of the innocent victim against the accusatory mob: “Forgive them father for they know not what they do”.
Girard is also very insightful on current predicament of West which, writing in the 1970s he characterised as “omnipresent victim”. What we call Left or communism is a perversion of Christian sympathy for the victim, licensing political persecution and violence in the name of the victim for political advantage.
As he put it in his “I See Satan Fall Like Lightning”:
‘Not only is the revolt against ethnocentrism an invention of the West, it cannot be found outside the West.’
Series of interviews with the great man here discussing his life and thought:
https://www.davidcayley.com/podcasts/category/Ren%C3%A9+Girard
Below is link to pdf of his groundbreaking: ‘Violence and the Sacred’ a true red pill. Girard has been called ‘Darwin of the human sciences’ because he interprets myth and the Bible as cultural fossil records.
For Girard the great error of our intellectual culture is to assimilate the Bible and myth as if they were just variants on the same theme, as if Jesus Christ was merely another ‘scapegoat’.
This is a scientific / naturalistic account of the origin of God / religion. Girard’s theory doesn’t posit supernatural entities. Though, as I say, he’s a Catholic himself. What prompted me to respond was the idea that the only truly positive mimesis is to imitate Jesus, i.e to resist mimetic desire, coveting thy neighbour’s wife etc. In that light you are very much in accord with Girard.
I recommend listening to the podcasts first before reading this. But the first two chapters of are mind blowing. The later ones on Freud can be skipped unless you’re into that. His interpretation of Nietzsche on the other hand, showing how he sides with the mob is unmissable. He demolishes the fashionable nostrums of academia to devastating effect. His erudition and rhetorical powers are staggering:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxwb2xpdGljYXVwcmFsZXhiZXRhbmNvdXJ0fGd4OjdkMTg5NGViNzg4MDU4Y2Q
What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?
This sounds very interesting. I’ll check it out. Thanks!
Do you really think Christ was a sloucher? Also, you are using the wrong definition of meekness (hint: it’s not weakness or the appearance thereof). Almost seems like you’re saying that Christian men should strive not to be masculine.
I don’t think he’s saying that. To find God is to find humility and humbleness.When you find this, you no longer need a facade or to practice psychological manipulation of any kind, i.e to ‘be’ masculine or to ‘be’ anything. You don’t mimic worldly attributes, you simple exist in God’s presence. I think this is what Roosh tried to convey in that sentence.Perhaps in a godless or secular world it can be seen as ‘weak’, but you are in fact following the riches of Christ. When the Roman Soldiers mocked Jesus and clothed him in the colour scarlet, which symbolises passion, royalty, forcefulness and corruption – he was able to take on the the sin of the world, carry his Kingship of the other world and do so humbly. The way in which Christians should do.
Lol u wrote something about muscular Christianity a long time ago that almost brought me back to the faith, now this.
I was thinking about trying hallucinogens, but after seeing what they did to you, nope nope nope.
Catholic elementary to public high school then state college.  Lost touch with Jesus completely in college by learning about other religions/beliefs, but was lucky to find Buddhism as temporary security net for some sustaining moral standards. Dated a very secular individual late in high school throughout graduate school. A secular relationship turned into a secular marriage (even ceremony was secular).
Started social media and drinking after marriage that lead to night clubs, heavy dancing, solo world traveling, hanging out with friends of opposite sex, and behaviours found in secular marriages today.  Grandparents would have been ashamed to know.  Marriage ended in divorce, and then started a few years of “dating,†and participating in dance clubs/bars.  It all became an addiction for self-gratification –vanity/pride and lust.Â
After a few years asked for help and by the Grace of God started talking to a Christian man who was healing too (very identical views to content on this site), and learned what it meant to compromise in a relationship.
Thankfully Jesus welcomes individuals back with open arms. The Christian child I was raised to be prior to high school was saved as an adult and blessed with a Christian marriage similar to Roosh’s explanation of a church with strong family/traditional values.Â
Read and listen to Roosh’s experiences and insights. He is right when he states secular behavior and secular relationships provide an emptiness in time, and eventually shame.
I’ve been with my wife for 13 years married for 12. We have children after 7 years of not. We are very blessed. We had a secular marriage. I came back to God through a long winding path and my wife followed me. We got married in our early/mid 20’s so we grew together. She’s remarkable. We bought our first home 5 years ago. We had our marriage convalidated into the Catholic Church recently. God has blessed us and our marriage enormously. He asks for so little and I don’t know why at times it seems so much. If you are in a secular marriage turn to God now. Pray read the scriptures seek good council go to church alone if necessary. It will change your life. Start small. I think God enjoys process. Remember all good things and all evil things start small.
Cool story, bro.
Any chance of a refund on those “game†books?
That would be the Christian thing to do.
Do they not work, bro? If you want to be a megagamma at least offer an argument. He stopped selling them, never said they were not fit for purpose.
That is the thing, the “Roosh method†works.
The issue is also that not all Game/Red Pill knowledge is evil. Not all the knowledge that Roosh put out there over the decade is bad or evil.
I can personally attest that despite being married in a Christian marriage, Roosh and Heartiste’s writings had a tremendously positive effect in my life.
One perfect example of Red Pill knowledge that is life-altering in a positive way:
https://www.returnofkings.com/2710/8-essential-rules-to-surviving-the-workplace
Never ever talk about any positives at work. Change subject to work-related stuff the moment co-workers start to ask about “how was your weekend†type chat. They are not interested, they are just envious types trying to compare themselves to you and hate you if you are actually happy.
Another example: I was always polite and friendly to everyone even the weird fat women I worked with. I am naturally a charmer and friendly… but learned my lesson and RoK’s article confirmed this. Stay away from them, period.
And lie at work about your personal life. Lying is not a Christian ideal, but we live in a time where women, angry fat bitter feminists are doing all they can to maliciously hurt men around them. Especially men that are fit, competent at their jobs, and have their life together. You are a target and threat.
Understand that as a man, if persih-forbid, a straight Christian WHITE man, you may need to lie to survive in a hostile workplace of today where feminists control your paycheck and financial and work-reference future. I have been previously criticized by some on Dalrock for saying this, but I advise young men to tell a few big mouths at the office “in privateâ€, that you are “discreetly gay†at work. If they ask why not being overt about it, just say you have a “traditional family†and need to keep it discreet and that one day you will be able to come out more, but not now. Once the blabber mouths tell others, this will then neutralizes all false accusations of sexual harassment at the office by women. And since you are not really gay, other guys will not accuse you either. Lol Even the fat angry women at the office will leave you alone if they think you are gay., because fat feminists sympathize with gay guys and their “struggleâ€
Since I am good looking, fit, and well-dressed, like Antonio from Real Men Real Style, I allow the women at the office to think I am “discreetly gay†and have never been harassed by HR. 🙂 And since I cannot, by threat of HR, to share any of my Christian faith at work anyway, it does not matter if they think I am gay. And I get invited to birthday celebrations and all sorts of events too.
And if you are a sane man, you will not flirt with women at work or talk about your personal/dating life, so you have immunized yourself from a lot of potential threats. 😉
Again… Red Pill knowledge at work here, in a positive way.
Ah, you need a new work place! Your co-workers sound awful!
Roosh, please hear this short plea from a lifelong Christian brother to a powerful new voice in the work of Christ. I praise your passion and devotion to God. As we read in Luke 15:7, heaven rejoices more when 1 sinner repents than when 99 righteous persons do not repent. Your conversion is a bigger testimony of Christ’s power and call than my lifelong Christian walk could ever be and will ever be. Your past lifestyle and conversion follows that that of Paul of Tarsus in terms of the level of your change of life and heart.
I have read your work for years. You are a very focused, intense, and dedicated man in whatever you do. I know your devotion to God is sincere and all you say, all you write here is to the betterment of others, through Christ.
That is why it pains me when you dismiss the usefulness of Game in a Christian-lifestyle setting. :-/
Even before my wife passed, I had taken The Red Pill, thanks to you (via RoK) and Heartiste. TRP (The Red Pill) has been one of the greatest positive influences of my adult life. The Pill has enabled me to make breakthroughs in my personal and professional life that would have been much harder (or impossible) before.
I agree and can attest that yes, if Game is THE ONLY reason you have a relationship with a woman, it will likely fail. I know this, I have been down that road before. It only took me a few months to understand that reality and pull me back to a more Christ-centered search for a lifelong partner, post becoming widowered.
But to completely dismiss Game, and all that it entails (self-improvement, acceptance of hard life truths, opening of eyes to the lie that is modern feminism/consumerism/globalism, etc), and strategies to better handle life, is harmful. I can say I personally know NUMEROUS Christian men who had unbalanced marriages with Christian women that were on the brink. These men allowed their wives to become the boss of them, through “churchianism†and fake Christian doctrine. These were good, deducated men, and yet, because of false Christian doctrine, allowed their marriages to fall into disrepair. They allowed their wives total control, they were being chated on (or about to), and yet they refused to SEE what was happened. They refused to acknowledge their marriages were in trouble because they had been BLINDED by Churchianity and a misandrist society and culture.
I know this because I helped intervene in many such situations, under Church men’s counseling small groups for married men or because they were friends. I often pulled these guys aside and “red-pilled themâ€. I started them reading Game focused on LTRs. No matter what these men did, no matter how much the church intervened with husband and wife, together or separately, it would not work in their marriages anymore. Their wives were in total rebellion. The marriage had become so unbalanced with the woman in church and growing angrier the more the man caved in. It had to be fixed and yet these guys have been cuckolded by society and “Churchianity†so long, they could not do anything that worked.
The #1 thing that helped re-balanced every single one of the marriage situations I got involved in? DREAD GAME. Once the husband understood what the reality of divorce/criminal courts were, the need for the man to lead his own home, and the TOOLS (i.e. Game, specifically Dread Game), they were able to re-balance their marriages. They had to take TRP and had to learn fast. They deployed Dread and stood their ground under ferocious spousal attacks, so they slowly pulled their wives into their newly developed frame (many times “fake it till you make itâ€).
Was it was or fun? No… we are talking real pain. But once they began applying Dread and slowly pulling their wives back into Christian-based marriage frames. For too long, good men under “churchianity†and non-stop male-bashing of Western society weakened these men so much, their marriages were in total free-fall.
I am talking real life fixing of a marriage. It is nothing like these dum, bpseudo “Christian movies†like “Fireproof . no, real life requires that a man re-assess his GOD-GIVEN ROLE in marriage and get things under control. Do you think the wives WANTED to relinquish power? LOL *roll eyes* It took Dread and a crash-course in game and the fear of divorce court and jail to get these guys motivated. But in the end, it paid off.
There is much good in Game theory that goes beyond bedding women. TRP itself is must, especially for Christian men, who have been fed a weekly dose of male weakness at church since birth, injected with lies and misandrist propaganda from TV commercials, to comedy shows, movies, schools, books, music, and public education. Today’s world is simply so overrun by negative and corrupt messages everywhere, in our homes, phones, TVs, radio, music, schools, workplace… it is 24/7. Simply citing Bible verses does not work anymore. You need Game tactics to salvage a marriage in crisis today, even a Christian-based one.
Such repaired marriages would have been impossible without Game. That is why I ask that you re-consider becoming so strongly anti-Game in your writings. God has allowed you to lead a movement of taking The Red Pill and of Game for a reason. Never assume it was all the work of the Devil. King Solomon also undertook a journey to write some of the most insightful writings in the Old Testament.
Please consider that. Thank you.
You know, just sitting here tonight, I recall this man, Roger. Good looking dude, 6’3†or so… cool guy by all standards, physically fit, all that. I always thought how nice would be to be friends with such an impressive guy… until I met his wife one day.
I remember his wife… we called her Mrs. Toxic. This woman was venomous. She publicly derided this guy openly in church, in social gatherings. He kinda looked down on me sometimes (literally due to his height, but also in his own prideful way). Like, she would complain about their sex life (he shows little interest in her – imagine that! LOL), he does not make as much $ as his brother… all sorts of embarrassing stuff. My friend told me he heard his wife actually say his “lack of sexual drive†is not normal for a man and she even questions his sexuality, if he was “closetedâ€, despite them having 2 young boys under 10. This is the type of mockery and emasculation I am talking here. He never said anything…. She was toxic and none of the other Church women called her out on it. -_- These ladies would later say “wow, she is mean†or something like that, but never say anything to HER to actually correct such behavior.
When I met Roger in a counseling group meeting a Wednesday night (these were 3-5 married/to be married guys in trouble) and either only church Deacon and myself or just Deacon. I remember his surprise, Roger would not even make eye contact. I am not a Deacon, but I was trained for Christian counseling after becoming widower, since windowed men are the most overlooked group. Anyway….
After the BS meeting where all suggestions revolved around quoting Bible verses to the wife or have her meet with Women’s Pastoral team (pastor’s wife, etc), we would walk around and talk with guys individually (the ones who stuck around).
I will never forget how Roger was standing there, pretending to be messing with his phone. It was as if he was waiting for someone to talk to him. I remember when I spoke to him about Mrs. Toxic.
I asked him “what do you think is the main problem in your marriageâ€? He said “me, I am the problemâ€. I asked him if he had cheated or had been in a “emotional relationship†with some woman, he said “noâ€. When I asked if he was abusive or else at home, he said “never, no wayâ€. He simply blamed himself for his wife’s toxic behavior, for emasculating him publicly, for treating him worst than the family dog.
Finally, I asked him “have you ever heard of The Red Pill?â€. He had no idea. I asked him if he ever heard of Game or Chateau Heartiste or Return of Kings. he said “what kings? Would return, bro?â€. It was funny.
That night, was about 2am. I started getting text after text. I had my phone off but I woke up in the middle of the night, because I had a big work project due and needed to do some work before heading to the office.
By the time I turned my phone on, from 2am to 4am… it was a barrage of texts from Roger. He started to “research this red pill thing†ad he could not believe it.
He said reading Donovan Sharpe (RoK) he kept saying “no…. man, this cannot be  and yet he kept reading.
His eyes were opened. I remember we spoke for like 2 hours later that day. He never went to bed called sick at work, and stayed home, locked in his “den†all day. He was in denial at first, but the truth could no longer elude him.
That was the day his life began to change. He began to take charge of his marriage and turn that ship around. He told me privately some of the fights were horrible, because he had to wrestle his woman back into place. He said for sometime she would not stop complaining or making threats to “leave him and take his boysâ€, unless he yelled at her and slammed doors. That phase went away, as he held his ground, always reminding his woman, he is a man, he is not afraid to go to prison, but she would “live to regret it†if she kept pushing him.
It has been almost 4 years and they are still together and his boys are now playing hockey and Mrs. Toxic has stop poisoning everyone around her. She seems much happier now that her man has “learned some Game†and put her back in her place. We have never talked about it anymore, but he once said to me “if you ever need help setting some married dummies straight, let me know, I know what to do nowâ€.
TRP and Game have their purpose.
Something else to think about.
That was a great story Mr Cool. I’m glad comments are back on here. That psycho bat wife of your friend – whoah, she needed game-spanked real bad I agree. She needed a game TWIZZLER. I watched an old stand up routine (Youtube) of Owen Benjamin where he said basically ALL women are going to be bats*t crazy. “Your woman will be crazy” (and he repeatedly pursued the same archetype crazy woman in his early days). You just have to accept that they seem crazy at the moment – but hold steadfast and love your woman. Her divine purpose through all the fog of Eve’s crazy psychosis is that she carries ye seed. She keeps ye tribe’s life in the bag and keeps it HOT and delivers it like a good devoted catering service at a park picnic family gathering (my words). So put up with her lunacy. Sweep it under the rug or wad and toss her seemingly incongruent mental state. She delivers life to ye tribe like the Fedex truck delivers a package at your doorstep – right on time. Put up with it and you have life. God commands. I’d like to stress that as long as ye woman lives – keep her producing and lactating, feeding, nurturing and serving/servicing her Earthly patriarchal lord and master YOU until she’s spent. Woman was craftily designed by GOD to be serial bred from the get go until she’s done KAPUT – and both you and her know when that is. Keep ye woman barefoot, prego and ZOOMIN. So who’s zoomin who? Lordy.
McGoo, actually Roger and I never became friends, we never hung outside a church setting. We went same church for the longest time, I had seen that couple before and from a distance, I thought Roger’s wife was kinda pretty, he had these beautiful kids (very well-mannered and all that), and I thought he was a cool-type guy, someone I would like to associate with. But when we actually met, first time we actually talked about something deep and real was at the married (or to be married) men’s “small group†and trust me guys who came to that one were “in troubleâ€. When I learned how his wife treated Roger, man, I was stunned. I guess things are often not as we expect or perceive! But we never became friends, all I can say is I planted a “seed†about Game/TRP (The Red Pill) and he was desperate enough to research on his own, the scales came iff his eyes about Churchianity, and we talked at length…. but Roger took the steps. All I had to do is plant the seed. This is an impressive guy, however. Many guys needed much more “coachingâ€.
From what Roger told me at subsequent “small group†was that there were horrible shouting matches, she would scream and throw stuff, he would slam doors and yell at her and call her a crazy b!tch and all that. He threatened to leave and he said he would move to Thailand and vanish forever and spend his life teaching English and h00kers…. she was angry and horrified he would say that. But the threats worked in coordination with other steps. He said was ugly. One thing he said, he would have to shout at her and “play games†with her, apologize and then seconds later launch another verbal attack. He said he was emotionally and physically drained. He would sleep in his work futon and pretend to “work late†so he could recover. By far this guy had the biggest fight of his life to wrestle control of his family back from Mrs. Toxic (I never called her that to him, BTW).
4 years later they are still together, she totally stopped emasculating him in public. Clearly, he fixed his own marriage, but was not easy clearly.
I honestly thing he is an impressive guy to have been able to hold it together. It is just funny we never became friends. Part of me wonders if he felt that I “knew too much†about his “private life problems†for us to be friends? We see each other still and kinda wave and nod, but we never became friends. Again, I used to think this guy was much more impressive then he really was. But then after he kept his marriage together with sheer Dread and wrestling back control from the Toxic wife, I kinda renewed my respect for this guy.
The point being: when women take over a marriage, it will spiral out of control. The natural order from God is: God -> Man -> Woman -> Children -> (extended) Family -> Country. If that comes out of balance, it spirals out of control.
I am not a “certified (with a degree) counselor†or anything. But what I have learned after doing this several years now is that most guys are TIRED at the end of the day. They work hard all day, they get home, they are demanded for attention (kids want to play/talk, wife wants things fixed, dog wants to be walked, etc) and they do not have the ENERGY to fight their wife for control at home. So they cave. They cave again and again and she (wife) begins to lose respect for her man.
Then one day, he wakes up to the fog of life’s busy schedules and he sees that his wife is now in charge. The house is a mess. His wife is now emasculating him publicly (warning to men: your wife openly talks trash about you PUBLICLY, get ready to learn Dread Game and be ready for a fight, you are not far away from being cuckolded and/or served with divorce papers and an arrest for “domestic violenceâ€).
For most men, as you say, the wife is openly doing this and he is simply too tired/too unaware to fight back. For many men, by the time they try to fight back and fix things, it is too late. They are already forced out of the home after a false criminal accusation and judicial restraining order and served divorce papers. Her “new†boyfriend moves into the house before the husband even had a chance to react.
Marriage is like a small plant on a window. You have to do a little bit of work on it each and every day. If you neglect it too long, it will be too late (in most cases) to salvage it. You simply cannot resurrect that plant if it is completely dead and withered. It will be uprooted and you have to start anew or leave the vase empty for good.
Reading back old old texts on an old cell from Roger.
Here are some things he did to inflict maximum Dread on Mrs. Toxic, his “wife†(more like tormentor.
*He actually printed papers on how to immigrant to Thailand and had a passport application filled out. He put it all in passenger car seat of his car and knowing that Toxic would find it. She confronted him about it, making his threat seem much more real. Bad fight followed this passport page confrontation, but he then said he would open all faucets in whole house and destroy their home on his way to the airport, so they would have nowhere to live! 😮
*He told the wife of a member of our church (knowing she would tell Mrs. Toxic) that he treated him so poorly and absurd him and the boys, he actually was going to counseling for depression and “very bad thoughts†he was having. When wife denied his claims, he sent that same woman a text saying “good bye we will see each other again soonâ€, making this lady think it is was suicide note. Then he apologized to this lady, saying it was “meant for someone elseâ€.
*He took his boys to HER parent’s house and said nothing while she was at work (they both worked outside home). She arrived home and freaked out, he kept his cell turned off, she did not know what to do started calling people and he made her seem like she was insane and over-reacting. 😀 lol…. Then when she thought to call her parents later that day, the parent’s thought she was losing her mind. (She was claiming her husband ran away with kids, accusations galore…)
*He called her a slightly different name during “angry sex  she said “what did you say?†And he said her name, she was like NO, you aid something else. Of course, on purpose and he did not get to finish but so what? I guess that was war. Geeez….
This happened over About 5 week period… man. Even I feel KINDA bad about her, even though she was a terrible wife and person.
And all of this happened during constant fighting. Folks, that is what it took this great guy to wrestle his marriage back under control. This was a guy on brink of frivolous divorce (and possibly cheating) by wife and he managed to turn that ship around. This is what happens when the wife runs the show and openly cucks her husband like this.
You guys should be writing stuff down. This is Dread at its best. Man, i had forgotten just how brilliant this dude had been! LOL
Again, the proof is in the pudding, as they say. 4 years later, they are still married and she stopped her emasculating and mental abuse of this guy. And they seem pretty happy really, I saw then Sunday before last….
Look at Wranglerstar. Attractive middle aged man. Beautiful life, beautiful children, beautiful homestead, successful financially, socially, and presumably, spiritually. His wife also seems like a wonderful companion and mother. SHE IS NOT HOT. Not only is she not “hot,” she is not even as attractive as he is physically, much less, in fact. If you want a life like that, that is secure and fruitful, you will have to completely and totally leave behind any vain and materialistic concerns about this.
Nick, my late wife was also “not hotâ€. She was, however, beautiful, extremely fit and FEMININE. A Christian woman who demanded my leadership of our home and who loved me and God unconditionally. She stood by me as I pushed my career into greater heights. She stood by me and I by her during rough times, personal struggles, family issues, job layoffs. We were there through it all, together.
When I took The Red Pill (TRP) she was shocked to see many changed in my thinking and behavior when dealing with toxic women at our church, how to deal with women in the workplace and in life in general. No longer was I the “good guy†helping mentor rude and entitled feminists at work out of a sense of duty to women. Not once did I white knight for useless entitled women. These changes surprised her… it was a rough patch for a couple months, since we had then been married about 10 years at that point, but in time, she came around (I pulled her into my Frame).
She then began to read on TRP…. she was shocked to learn men had been so poorly treated and acted so meekly. She was shocked to see how FemiNazism had wrecked dating (we got married age 22, and lived and gathered around Christians in mostly suburbs, so we missed much of the Fem-poison that is so widespread in major cities).
Keep in mind, when a married Christian man Takes TRP, his spouse will notice a change. In our case, the changes were drastic for me, because I am an Empiricist (meaning, I believe in empirical evidence and very little BS). TRP changed my life and honestly, her admiration for me and my success in work and even interpersonal relationships (status within our social group) improved drastically.
My wife, even in her mid 30s was a stunning woman. Was she “hot†like a dirty club slut?? No, she was NOT. She never was. I fell in love and stayed in love with her because she was a great Christian woman and an outstanding BEAUTY.
And because she liked to please me, she always wore sexy clothes for me at home, high heels in bed, role playing… she was the kind of wife that did it all for me. That is what a beautiful woman does for her husband. Beauty, comes in her simplicity and her willingness to BE beautiful and even sexy for her man.
Cute girls are good. Beautiful girls are even better. Trust me, if she looks good/cute without make-up on, she is beautiful. It comes from within, my friend. No, a 600lbs woman cannot be beautiful…. But you know what I mean.
If you do not understand cute/beautiful vs hot…. research. Start here: https://thoughtcatalog.com/christopher-hudspeth/2014/01/the-differences-between-cute-pretty-sexy-beautiful/
Big difference, sir. Beautiful ALWAYS beats hot.
I don’t think we disagree at all. My comment was off the cuff and intended as a counter to certain obvious naysayers. I’ll bet WS thinks his wife is beautiful, and I’m sure she is, to him. By objective standards, however, not really. You did great on that front, great. All I’m saying is it can’t be a singular concern, which is what many people transitioning from the RP and Game perspective might be envisioning, it’s why they’re angry – those who aren’t paid to shitpost on sites like this, anyway. A beautiful woman, in any dimension, or many, or all, is always in reach if you live uprightly. Comment wasn’t directed towards people such as yourself, rather to dudes who are still stuck in the materialistic side of the RP and, consequently, do not understand and get angry with Roosh’s current perspective. Nonetheless, the overarching truth is that one should find the best person for them, holistically, which is something game adherent men have not been generally acclimated to by dominant thinking over the previous decade or so. Sounds like you’re doing great, which is great. Working towards it myself.
Nick, I appreciate the clarification. 🙂
One issue I have is that I know I had “had it good†with my late wife. Honestly, I have real doubts whether I even want to try and get married again. It pains me to say this, because I know many women in my church and area that are not (Obvious) former carrousel riders or anything and yet… I ask myself? Do I want to do this again? The amount of work to make a marriage worthwhile is high, even with a great woman. Life and marriage today is much more complicated. What it takes to have a good marriage today is much more than ever before. Being a good, faithful and loving husband, a good provider with a nice house and job is not nearly enough (Beta worker bees, take notice!).
So I had a great marriage the first time. I had no say how it ended, tragically, I might add, which is not fun and I do not recommend to any man (Loss of a spouse is no fun).
And yet, I think to myself: is it worth it for me to try again? And what if this second time around, I am not that 22-year old who married the right person and all that?
I also have to look at this from a financial point of view. As a man, I would have almost 100% of the financial risks here as I have a house paid for, 2 great cars, a good job…. perfect to have stolen by corrupt courts and to be made forced to pay alimony.
When my late wife and I got married, we had nothing, two cars we were paying for and an apt rent bill. We had nothing but each other, and God’s grace to rely on. We worked really hard together, towards the same goal. If I go out and marry some woman in her late 20s-early 30s, we already have lives of our own kinda set-up in some way that we like. Can we work it out the same way my late wife and I did it, together, as we worked from nothing and started our lives together? I am not so sure, honestly.
And at the same time, if I do not marry, then I will either have to have kids out of wedlock (if any, really) or I will just have to get by fornicating from time to time outside marriage And not have any kids at all.
Like Roosh, as I push towards 38 this year, I no longer find having a beautiful (or hot) woman in my bed to be as big of deal as I once did. It is a good thing, but it does not make me feel that good about it. It is weird. My test levels are as high as they were in my 20s and yet, I no longer care about women nearly as much as I once did.
So I myself have a lot to consider about my own future. Do I really wanna try marriage again at an extremely high risk to me, personally, and have kids after age 38?
Some examples:
Beautiful/cute:
https://www.reckontalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/20-Cutest-Pretty-Girls-with-Natural-Beauty-4.jpg
Hot (slooty type):
https://miro.medium.com/max/3200/1*WtOevvVa0JgkZZfTWf5UFg.jpeg
If you rather MARRY “hotâ€, be ready for aDivorceRape (DR) like never before. These “hot†women are trash.
I give you bl9w job from $150 and bill direct to Manulife, SunLife and many other health insurance plans!
Make it 100 and it’s a deal
Every time I’m feeling down about my prospects with women, I visit your site, Roosh, and you always have the right, Christian thing to say to get me back on track. God bless you, brother. Don’t let the persecution discourage you. Jesus promised it would come and says your blessed when people revile you for His name sake.
https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2208fcfb8e35f53b7207311d7ddbafbe?s=64&d=wavatar&r=pg
James Bale
right now
Folks! Its time to help Roosh! If you hear, learn from Roosh so much, and admire his great work, than help! He can’t do everything just through air, he needs to be secured, he needs food, enough money to have and expand his options, options in every facette of his life. People learn through life not just for sitting in front of a computer and streaming informations you can gather from the internet, yes this is an important aspect, but only one of many. Most of his helpful, insightful wisdom comes from his life experience, living around the world, studying countries, people, behavoiur, psychology, goverments, strucutres. Roosh get shaped into the person he is today, because of his journey, a journey he only could be on because he had the financial tools. As the great man he has become, who helps us all to get and find the truth, expose the evil methods out there. He needs our help, to help him continue his journey, the journey is only manageable and realizable, if he has enough income to pursue as many options as he needs, that are required to learn more. As people, who read his blog, watching his videos with admiration, being glad to have him, as a great source for obtaining the truth and knowledge. It is our opportunity to support, to secure him, means to secure his work, which means support the good. If you can, send Roosh money, it doesnt have to be a high amount. If 500 people who send him every month 10 Dollar, he would have enough to be secure, if 500 people would send 5 Dollar it would still help to secure him. think about all the nonsense you pay for every month, and i am sure we all agree that listening to Roosh, absorbing information, receiving real news of the current situation, is worth more than one package of something you buy for 5 Dollar each month. So people, lets get involed now, send him something each month, help the good side to rise, help the good people, who do their best they can. Roosh got denied by amazon, paypal, now youtube and many more important plattforms, but we have to be his backbone, we have to secure him, without buying something from him, he gives us so much, its time to give back. God bless you
I agree. If Conservatives and Christians do not support the good work of our own side, we will surely lose it all, culturally and throughout our country. The left funds its own endeavors, should we not do the same?
Exactly, Chrisitian. We have to support our people. I was spending a lot of my income, for tools i personally needed to support the conservative side on my own, but from now on, starting on august, i will send Roosh every month 10 Dollar, sometimes more if i can, and when he releases a new book, i will buy the book on top of that. Roosh is one of my most important sources and friend, which i havent met yet in person, i followed his work for years. I never agreed on his pickup lifestyle, but with his wisdom and experience, i learned about behaviour reasons of people in the western society (in my case, germay). At the beginning, of course like most people, i wanted to learn how women think. Everthing is connected though, so i ended up to understand psychology and the methods of evil, how false ideas are spread, the amount of lies, agendas, all of it.
I always knew that Roosh had the potential to become a very strong messenger, that he is now. So happy to have him on the good side. I’ll do what i can to secure him. I learned so much from him. He is the reason, that i get red pilled succesfully at early age, forever grateful. All this time until now, i was too self-orientated. Only helped myself mostly in financial terms, that is wrong, i was blind somehow, but not any more. Yes, Christian, we have to stand up for our people. The good is on its rise, its power increases day by day. United we stand!
How can we support Roosh’s work monthly? Let’s rally, guys… 🙂
Is a girl marriage material if she uses Instagram to fish for likes and sponsors?
I think you are referring to “Instagram Models? 😀 LOL
These are either Dubai Porta-Potties or glamorized street walkers.
Not marriage material! LOL
You know, not every woman is an opportunistic whore unless they have a strong faith in christ. Of course it helps, but I think your overly jaded from banging so many loose women over the years.
The evolution of the red pill, is God…because it keeps ask the question, what is truly important.
Richard, God is ultimately where wise men, and men who live ANY lifestyle and come to The Red Pill arrive at.
Men become far wiser after 30. FAR wise and that is why the ancient Hebrews did not even consider the advice or testimony of men under 30.
The problem is that Christians, especially new converts, fail to see that following God and still “taking The Red Pill†are NOT mutually exclusive.
Following Christ and understanding God’s wisdom and supremacy IS in some ways an eye-opening experience. And so is taking The Red Pill.
Make sense?
How do you reconcile this with the finding that bible belt states in America actually have the highest rates of divorce in the nation (according to numerous sources and also pew research)?
I guess you can try to dismiss this as “fake news” but anyone can dismiss any claim that doesn’t accord with their beliefs as “fake news.”
1. Look at the divorce DEMOGRAPHICS of America’s south and “the Bible Beltâ€. Look at race of couples and the national origin of divorced population.
2. The population of the South has been drastically altered by massive migration from northern States. My home State of Florida was south when I was growing up. Now it is massively overcrowded with northern people and in the case of my hometown of Orlando, it is overrun with immigrants from South America (mainly from Brazil), and with non-southern people. Go to Miami… it is almost a foreign country.
3. Atlanta is another example. The population there os so overwhelmingly from out of the area, it is not even funny. I saw this TV special about suburban Atlanta, about 10 years ago, entire suburbs of Chicago-area came down to Atlanta and bought up brand new housing in same areas.
Cannot brand the Bible Belt for high divorce. The region is now called “the Sun Belt†for a reason, it is totally changed.
Okay, but then why is it higher in bible belt states than in blue states? If there is an influx of “godless” folk and immigrants from blue states to bible belt states, you should still logically expect the blue states to have higher levels of divorce. Your response is 100% cope
The divorce rate is higher wherever the degeneracy is, or false doctrine. A house divided against itself cannot stand.I would assume this is the case in the south because there is rampant drug use, mediocrity, and depression everywhere.
Gawd, you probably do not live in an area where there is a massive influx of outside influences. It is not just a bunch of new “godless people†coming in. It is also often the many negative ECONOMIC effects that it causes.
So take Orlando, where basically 200,000 Brazilians just flooded the metro area in the last 15 years or so.
What do you think such a massive influx of cheap labor does to wages? Lowers it across the board, of course. What do you think the effect of that is on quality of life (good, not-overcrowded schools, traffic congestion, litter/trash, urban sprawl, etc)? How about increase in crime? How about increased cost of living, mainly RENT?
Financial stress is the #1 cause of divorce in America. The country has been in a semi-state of Recession (for the middle class) since 2001.
You add an influx of northern criminals (a lot of people who came down are ghetoo types, junkies from CT, NYC, NJ…), Massive increase in cheap foreign labor, increased cost of living, decreased wages, and lower quality of life.
YES, you get a massive increase in divorce rate for the locals.
This is not a hard concept to grasp.
No one is disputing that divorce rates may have increased in bible belt states.
The whole issue is why divorce is HIGHER in bible belt states than in blue states (and in fact divorce is higher in bible belt states than anywhere else in the nation). Oddly, this does seem to be a hard concept for you to grasp.
All of the things you’ve cited are present in greater numbers in a blue state such as California where there are huge numbers of “ghetto types” and junkies, rampant homelessness, incredibly high cost of living, and influx of criminals and cheap labor from illegal immigrants. Financial stress should be higher in blue states where there is a higher cost of living.
Where is there a higher “cost of living, mainly rent”? A blue state like New York, or a bible belt state like Alabama?
So… first off, your data is kind of in dispute.
https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/marriage-divorce-rates-by-state.html
The data is NOT solidly stating the “Bible Belt†(now “Sun Beltâ€) States have higher divorce rates.
Secondly, do ghetto types, crackheads, illegals, etc move that much between States? No. The people who often move between States are the married couples and young people starting life.
Third, the marriage rates in crime-infested, godless hellholes like Portland or California is LOWER than in Bible Belt States as well.
If you have fewer marriages being formed, you have less divorce.
Just as if you have less driving by people, you have less car crashes. And if you have fewer flights, you have fewer plane crashes. That is simple statistics.
Fourth and finally, POVERTY, no matter whether it is caused by high cost of living-depressed wages combination or whether it is caused by de-industrialization/outsourcing of jobs or simply government-mandated regional economic collapse of industries (i.e. coal jobs in WV, for instance), poverty causes higher divorce. #1 Cause of divorce in AngloSphere countries is financial hardship and poverty.
Again, I am not sure what is the point you are intimating here. Are you saying that “Bible Belt†States are somehow more corrupt than say California or Portland, for instance?
You are explaining why divorce has increased in bible belt states, which nobody disagrees with. This does nothing to explain why divorce rates are HIGHER in bible belt states than blue states, and higher than anywhere else in the nation.
Let’s take a blue state such as California. Does California not suffer from rampant homelessness, traffic congestion, increased crime, an influx of criminals, massive increase in cheap labor from illegal immigrants and increased cost of living?
How does the cost of living in a blue state such as New York, compare to a bible belt state such as Alabama?
All the things you listed are an even bigger problem in blue states.
From what I’ve read, traditionally, people in the south marry very young (Christian Cool can substantiate that). I’ve also read where divorce rates are considerably higher for people who marry young. There’s something to be said for Christian Cool’s hypotheses about mass immigration from more liberal northern states tweeking up the divorce rates in the south. I’d also submit that with the proliferation of the NONES, and that not everyone identifies with any faith base in the south (nor anywhere else for that matter), there are just as many nominal Christians in the south as anywhere else. It’s more a box to check off than a journey of genuine faith perhaps (e.g. cultural Christianity).
I could see my own past in your description of secular romantic relationships. As a woman I’ve played the role of acting “hard to get”, and I’ve also been “played”by men. Secular attraction is so based on superficiality — flattery, games, status, consumerism, physical appearance, and it is fleeting. A famous woman (I can’t remember whom) once said, “If you have to play hard to get to get a man, you’ll have to keep on doing it for the rest of your life.”
Putting God and his ways first is the only true path to building genuine, loving relationships.
I disagree. Men do NOT like “hard to get†games. That is a misunderstanding of male thinking. Most men do not play games (i.e. create drama), that is so many spoiled “modern women†get bored and begin hating their husbands/boyfriends.
I suggest you re-read Roosh’s work in relationships. “hard to get†woman is not something men actually want.
That’s beautiful Roosh. I’m a Christian and single and you are 💯 correctamundo. I find it difficult to meet real Christian men due to my age and location. Slim pickins, all of them seem to want to jump in the sack right off the bat, rationalizing it all away. I don’t play that, so he moves onto a woman who will. I think it’s due to the highly sexualized culture we live in and the church is not different.
Same!! It’s interesting to me how so many men claim they want to wife up a woman who is waiting to have sex but don’t really want to be the guy not getting it until marriage with that woman. I get a lot of attention from guys but it often goes away once they find out I won’t sleep with them (even Christian guys)…and I get ditched for someone who will. Or they’re excited by the idea and want to become the exception…and get angry and resentful when I don’t change my values. Ultimately I’m living to please God, but still, I don’t feel that my values have helped me to get married in any way shape or form. It’s actually been the biggest factor that’s kept me single at 30 years old. I put career last because I wanted to put my focus on getting married young (I thought abstinence would surely be counted as a positive attribute) but that wasn’t the case so I’m pretty much forced to change my priorities now and become financially independent in my 30s. I was basically a red pill dream in my 20s (abstinent, not a drinker, young, generally considered attractive, wanted family more than career, etc) but I actually got a ton of emotional abuse for my stance on sex. Something doesn’t add up. Glad Roosh is changing his views and seems very genuine.
As an older man, I too have encountered this sex being the deal breaker very quickly, as has some of my older male friends at my church encountered as well. While I’ve seen this somewhat from the older women (just don’t date women near my age anymore), I see it prevalent with the much younger (and nominal Christian or NONEs) millennial women I’ve attempted to date. While the age gap isn’t the issue, it’s “let’s hook up for sex, and then we’ll be a coupleâ€, or “I want to test the goods firstâ€. The knife cuts both ways.
If you think comments vanished… nope. Just hit “view repliesâ€.
Is there any way to “Expand all�
This has been a great and fruitful discussion. 🙂
One of the reasons I did that is because commenters like you are using huge blocks of text for side conversations. You’re flooding the page. Stick to the topic and be economical with your comments.
Excellent points Roosh.
The secular world is much easier to spot than it was 30 years ago, and is getting more and more so.
One effective thing I’ve learned to do to differentiate from knowing if I feel an actual spiritual connection to a woman or if I’m just infatuated is to imagine how life with her would play out if we lived in a world where there was no such thing as sex and the two of you would never have sex. I imagine how day to day life would be and then I realize if it’s real or not. It takes some discipline and mental control to do this but it really helps.
What exactly do you know about long-term relationships ? Did you have one? Is there a “good Christian†woman by your side? The true nature of a woman doesn’t make exceptions for religion and you know that.
That’s because short term “game” is just about an incel raising his own standards to get the prostitute to give out sex.
Hence the outcome depends upon your market value-
The Chad ingredient (looks) helps establish initial value.
The alpha ingredient (cocky,funny) improves upon initial value.
The beta ingredient (sympathising with her bullshit) improves your value even further.
The simp ingredient (money,social connections) improves the value to it’s maximum potential.
But the long term “relationships” also include men expecting women to have standards of their own. Hence the eventual failure of short term “game”.