Neomasculine Dialogue: “The Seasons Of Man”

The following dialogue took place between myself (RV) and Quintus Curtius (QC) on September 9, 2015.

RV:

Good day, Quintus. It has been three months since our last dialogue. As you know, I completed a lecture tour with stops in Germany, England, United States, and Canada, where I delivered a speech containing many of the principal beliefs of neomasculinity in addition to general self-improvement and game advice.

In Canada, I was met with stiff resistance from the political and media class, but was able to hold the speeches successfully in spite of it. The news coverage in Canada contained the first instances of the terms “neomasculinity” and “neomasculinist” appearing in print, a promising sign for a new philosophy that is barely six months old.

The resistance from the establishment is worthy of a future dialogue, but today I wanted to talk to you about what I observed of the 364 men I spoke to at the lectures, of which should not be a surprise to you since you attended the Montreal event. The men were not of one specific age range, race, personality, class, or appearance. They varied from men in their teens all the way up to their late 50’s (I had one father-son pair attend). While the majority was white, there were many Asians, Indians, Hispanics, blacks, and others. Some came just for the game tips, some were looking for advice on how to find the future mother of their children, and some others were looking to start a movement, to begin the resistance. What surprised me is that these men were applying similar beliefs in vastly different ways.

I didn’t expect that men of such different backgrounds could fall under the same ideological umbrella. What is it about neomasculine beliefs that can draw in such a wide net?

QC:

This was something that made an impression on me as well. The lectures saw a wide span of age groups. The noticeable variance of the ages of attendees seems to suggest, to me, that despite the station of life a man is in, there still remains a “core” set of principles that gird whatever phase of life a man finds himself in.

It is almost as if there is a bedrock of principles that unites the teenager, the man in his thirties, the middle aged man, and the elderly man. There was also a variance in economic class.

And what is this distilled wisdom that is present in every stage? I think you have correctly identified it as neomasculine ethos. These are the foundations, the roots, that remain alive and relevant from a man’s cradle to his grave. And this is why, it seems to me, that your lectures united such a wide disparity of ages.

All of them are drawn to neomasculine ideas like moths fluttering about a light. They may not yet be able to articulate why they decided to attend, but they innately feel the invocation that neomasculinity stands for. They sense, in the fiber of their being, that this core represents the beating heart of the masculine ethos. They cannot fail to respond to its call. And this is why it is beginning to attract public attention. The ideology serves a need that is desperately being called for, irrespective of age or national origin.

RV:

They are drawn to a light that appears in one color, but which possesses many different wavelengths. Depending on the stage the man is in, he will be attracted to a specific wavelength at one instance, and then a different wavelength the next.

A man’s life can be rather complex, but if we were to take a seasonal metaphor and try to apply it to all men, I think many would fit the following pattern:

Spring: This is when boy becomes man, and is beginning to wipe the crust of ignorance from his eyes to see the world as it is. Here he takes the red pill and accepts the hard truths that were concealed to him.

Summer: He is mostly liberated from mainstream dogma and programming. The truth he has accepted can be used to improve his love life, his social life, his health, and his finances. At the summer solstice, he may let the heat affect his thinking, and over-indulge in fleeting pleasures.

Fall: The cooling weather forces abrupt changes. He works out the remaining hedonistic urges from his system and begins to search for purpose and meaning. He comes to the understanding that truth is not all-or-nothing, but a series of chambers, one room leading to another, with a seemingly infinite number of options. The path he takes will be entirely his own.

Winter: He makes the final application of the wisdom he has achieved in life. Will he look back and see it as a repeating cycle that went everywhere but nowhere, or will he see that a deeper meaning has been achieved with a clear beginning, middle, and end? The answer may not come for him until he approaches his last breath.

Do you see yourself in these descriptions? I would say most guys who attended the lecture were in Summer, and only now do I feel a push into Fall, where I’m ready to use the truths I have realized not for pleasurable gains, but to serve a purpose that does not involve serving my own bodily satisfactions. The neomasculinist is aware of the seasons and is prepared for the change in weather. He understands that what he wears today will not be suitable three months from now.

QC:

This is well and truly said. The analogy of the “seasons” is a fitting one. I suppose we could also equate them with mental states, in that:

Spring: The rebellious pugnacity of youth, burning brightly, and questioning everything.

Summer: The belief that inherited wisdom is wrong, and that we ourselves know the “truth.”

Fall: The world makes a mockery of our pretensions, and we begin to perceive how our ideas clash with the iniquities of life.

Winter: We resign ourselves to the nature of Life and Fate, and reach a state of Stoic acceptance of inherited wisdom. We realize that our ancestors were, in fact, right, and that the ancient wisdom was there for a purpose.

I would also say, Roosh, that none of these “seasons” that you spoke of can definitely be said to be a “happy” state. For no one can call a man happy until he has breathed his last breath. As Montaigne says, “Fortune appears sometimes purposely to wait for the last year of our lives in order to show us that she can overthrow in one moment what she has taken long years to build.”

But I certainly do see myself in those descriptions of the seasons. If I were to estimate my own season, it would have to be at what you have marked “Fall.” I have not yet surrendered myself completely to the arms of Fate, but I am becoming more and more aware of her rule over mens’ lives.

But each of these seasons has a part to play in the drama of life. Some wish they had acquired wisdom at an early age. Maybe so. But would that man even know what to do with it? Would he even believe its truth? The seasons of man are like the acts in a play; one cannot understand the final act, before the drawing of the curtain, until he has sat through the preceding acts.

RV:

I agree that each stage has enough difficulties where a Hollywood kind of eternal happiness does not factor in. Of course there will be moments of pleasure, and hopefully a high level of contentment, hope, and enjoyment, but the pursuit of wisdom, knowledge, truth, and enlightenment comes at such a cost that most men can not begin to attempt it. They don’t even know that such a pursuit is an option for them.

I’m not pushing a life of asceticism and suffering, but a fiber of stoicism does seem to be naturally weaved into a life lived well and honestly. A young man may come to us for pickup advice, for example, but stay for the self-actualization that comes afterwards.

During the lectures, a couple men inquired about my own path and exactly what happened to go from being a horny early 20-something prowling the clubs of Washington DC to the position I found myself in Canada where I was hiring bodyguards to give a talk in a hostile environment. My response to them: “I just wanted to get laid.” One door led to another, and my interest is pursuing women for casual sex is currently so low that I barely recognize my older writing when coveting the female flesh was the sole reason for my existence.

When guys pursue sex, they think they are mainly satisfying a primal urge, but at the same time they are covertly learning and understanding how women are, how men are, how society is, and even how government is. Game is currently the most popular gateway that men find into neomasculinity. Do you think it will remain this way? Are there are entry points as well?

QC:

I think that there are other entry points. I know for me there were. What attracted me to your articles was the commentary on the differences between American culture and European culture. No one was talking about these things in this way in the early 2000s. That is, no one was comparing the behavior of the women and asking why things were the way they were.

I recognized immediately a level of honesty and disclosure that simply could not be found in the mainstream publications. It meshed well with everything I had experienced in the overseas military, and in my own later travels.

Other entry points are possible as well. Health, fitness, travel, and language study seem to be the biggest points of entry. It seems that it’s not so much the subject matter, but the level of receptiveness to the message. If a man feels the need for our message, he will find his way to us, with as much assurance as the law of gravity.

RV:

The scientist in me is tempted to construct a better catcher’s mitt to aid men in finding us, perhaps using Silicon Valley “best practices” with heavy analysis of Google search data, A/B testing, and what have you, but succumbing to that temptation would result in creating something large instead of something true. The size of our readership is already big enough. How would existing readers be served if there was a heavy focus on finding new men to bring into the fold? I believe we should focus on serving current readers more fully.

One glaring absence I find from self-improvement literature for men is on making the transition from one season to the next. Everyone can give men tips on how to meet women or how to make money, but no one talks about what to do when you no longer get joy from the same behaviors or actions that you spent so many years mastering, and how to approach a change in the seasons.

In my recent past, I didn’t want to leave the summer season. I doubled down on my prior sex behaviors, thinking that I was merely not experiencing enough of them. I failed to understand that men change and develop. While the intentions of the male friends around me at the time were good, they provided a support network that allowed me to blindly continue living in the current season, especially since our bonds depended on performing an old behavior that we began in our more youthful years. Just being able to find someone who could tell me, “Yes, you will change as you get older and not like what you used to like,” was difficult, and I wasted at least two years resisting that change while stubbornly holding on to past habits that no longer served any use.

There’s danger, however, when a man rushes through the seasons by trying to enter the next one before his mind is prepared. He’s at risk of a crash if he stops the behaviors that serves him well while not having the ability or fortitude to begin new behaviors that cannot yet serve him. It’s a bit like having an old car that occasionally breaks down. At one point do you stop making repairs and purchase a new car? What is the defining repair that makes you junk it? I imagine it would have to be cost: when the the price of the repair—of maintaining your habits and lifestyle of old—becomes too expensive for your soul, and starts to be a primary cause of malaise, depression, and unhappiness. Only then should a man transition into a new season.

Have you recognized events in your life that, looking back, were signs that you were undergoing a transition?

QC:

Absolutely. The transition point comes when one feels as if the old models—the old paradigms—are no longer serving the purpose that they were intended to serve. It is at this point that the restless soul begins to rattle its chains, and seeks to escape the confines of its present boundaries.

Now, it has been shown time and again, through an examination of the lives of great men, that the embrace of the philosophic life contains the key for the resolution of these questions that you are asking.

You say to me, “How will I know when to transition to a new season? How will I know where to search for answers?” There are some events in our lives that are known immediately to be life-changing; but more often, the process will be a gradual, slow awakening to the fact that the old paradigm needs to be shifted to something new.

The answers to these questions can only be found by a long period of self-examination that embraces the following activities: (1) a wide-ranging reading in the philosophic classics; (2) travel and immersion in other cultures; and (3) the study of history, with an emphasis on the biographies of great men.

The active, seeking mind will absorb all of these lessons, and make the necessary connections and inferences. This is a gradual process that takes time; there is generally no Archimedean “eureka” moment. But I am confident that you are up to the task, being the mystic seeker that you are.

RV:

I agree that there is no flashbulb moment like in animated cartoons. What men have to note is if there’s a change in how they think or feel about a behavior when compared to the past. For example, let’s say a man goes to a nightclub and brings a pretty girl home. The next day he may be the happiest man in the neighborhood, with a buzz that makes him feel like he’s walking on air. Fast forward five years. He brings the same type of girl home but the buzz is gone, and the next day he doesn’t feel the joy from the experience but a grumpy hangover from another long night out.

It’s at this stage that a man can go in two directions. The first is to increase the dose of the drug, of thinking he needs to bring two girls home at once, or he must do it in a more challenging way. The second direction is to accept that the behavior that brought him happiness in the past was actually a treadmill in disguise. To stay interested while on any treadmill, you must either increase the speed or do another behavior like listen to loud music to make you forget that you’re actually on a treadmill.

If the dose of something must be increased in order to keep enjoying it, that probably means that you are pursuing an activity that is not giving you fulfillment. For over ten years I’ve been writing articles for a blog, with no need to change that behavior. I get just as much happiness from publishing an article today like I did in the past, regardless of who is reading. This is because writing is a way I truly enjoy life. Pursuing women and travel has not led to the same result, suggesting they were short-term affairs that I did for novelty and fun. With those activities, I was no different than a child who wants to eagerly play with a shiny new toy before quickly moving on to another.

Modern society is set up so men almost exclusively pursue thrills that monetarily enrich others, take them away from masculine values, and keep them in a state of distraction. If we look at men of the past, what allowed them to pursue enjoyment in life? Does a “modern” life mean we throw away all the positive behaviors our grandfathers did in order to get on one of many treadmills that will likely result in us being roughly thrown off?

Whatever the answer is, a good way for a man to know he’s not pursuing virtue is if he gets bored or tired after doing it enough times. Pursuing wisdom, meaning, and deep human connection… there is no boredom in that.

QC:

This is well and truly said. There is no boredom in the pursuit of the philosophical life, because it is the ultimate quest. The greatest journey is the pursuit of these eternal questions. But the inner journey cannot begin until a man has sufficiently stimulated his exterior sensations. He must be satisfied that the same response will come from the same external stimuli.

The same stimuli, even if it is pleasant, eventually becomes impossible to discern. Cicero tells us in the “Dream of Scipio” that we do not hear the “harmony of the spheres” (i.e., the movement of the heavenly bodies) because we have heard it from birth. In the same way, he also points out that those living in the Cataracts of the Nile are deaf to the crashing surge of the river’s waters.

Few have the conviction or discipline to undertake this journey, but all have the potential.

And it is true that modern society does not encourage this sort of patient reflection. But, I would also say, when has this ever been true? The life of the seeker has always been an oasis of calm amid the crashing turbulence of its surroundings. We have just as many tools now—perhaps more—than our ancestors possessed. The fact that we must search longer and harder for them makes them only that much more attractive. But this is the way of things. It cannot be helped. I would not wish to exchange my life for the life of any other man, because it is one based on the pursuit of the essence behind things.

For what separates a man from a beast? The major difference is that the animal is moved by sense alone, and is little able to distinguish past from present, living only in the present moment. Man, because he partakes in Reason, is different. He sees the consequences behind things, he can differentiate progress and antecedents, and he is able to connect cause and effect in a way that permits him to draw inferences based on Reason.

And because of this, Nature herself directs man towards a life based on deliberation and reflection. We cannot escape the hold of Reason, or the quest for the essence of things.

RV:

Quintus, you have a way of taking a seemingly trivial observation I’ve noticed on the streets and connecting it with the eternal cosmos and nature of man, and for that I am grateful, because it is this connection that men must understand as they progress through the seasons of their own lives. I hope we are successfully giving them the tools to see more clearly than before.

I’m looking outside my window right now and see an unusually bright sun. It seems that summer wants to say one last goodbye before the onset of the cool Polish fall. I will go out now for a walk and contemplate your words, more ready than ever for the changing of this season.

Read Next: Neomasculine Dialogue: “A New Beginning”

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FerdinandLaMothe
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“For example, let’s say a man goes to a nightclub and brings a pretty girl home. The next day he may be the happiest man in the neighborhood, with a buzz that makes him feel like he’s walking on air. Fast forward five years. He brings the same type of girl home but the buzz is gone, and the next day he doesn’t feel the joy from the experience but a grumpy hangover from another long night out.”

That’s because he is immature and unintelligent.

“Modern society is set up so men almost exclusively pursue thrills that monetarily enrich others, take them away from masculine values, and keep them in a state of distraction.”

Only immature and unintelligent men do that. It would help if you didn’t oppose the Feminism and Social Justice Warriors that do point out that men shouldn’t pursue thrills that monetarily enrich others, take them away from masculine values, and keep them in a state of distraction. You encourage such attitudes, so reap what you sow.

“There is no boredom in the pursuit of the philosophical life, because it is the ultimate quest.”

And has been known about for over two millennia. It was even written about in the Bible. You could try stopping the pop up ads for game tips if you’ve really discovered the philosophical life. Why not some tips on how to be philosophical? We all know the answer to that. As a top hypocrite you wouldn’t be able to monetise such advice.

“What attracted me to your articles was the commentary on the differences between American culture and European culture. No one was talking about these things in this way in the early 2000s.”

I’m sure they were, you just weren’t listening.

Neomasculinity is just the old masculinity.

spicynujac
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OK, I’ll play your devil’s advocate:
1) Re: the thrill of a one night stand. Unless the girl has something else to offer me, any emotional satisfaction is gone without 24 hours, and sometimes within a few minutes after a ONS.

2) You can call men trapped in the cycle of modern enslavement, entertainment, and financial slavery “immature and unintelligent” but I would argue many of them just haven’t woken up to the red pill. When your family, your teachers, your society and your government are all telling you lies, it can be very difficult to discover the truth alone. I’d say the majority of these men just don’t see the world for how it really is. And it is painful to accept these truths. Like how the traitor guy in the Matrix decides he’d rather just be oblivious and work for the bad guys in the Matrix than be free and know the cruel truth.

3) The arguments for philosophy and thoughtfulness are opposed to the idea that endless one night stands and light entertainment are all a man needs to keep himself happy and fulfilled.

FerdinandLaMothe
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1. Then don’t have ONSs. Find out what else a girl can offer you beforehand. It isn’t brain science.

2. Lies such as “don’t have ONS”, “respect women”, “don’t believe daft conspiracy theories”, and “read proper books”. They haven’t woken up because “these men” are ignorant.

3. But Roosh can’t monetise thoughtfulness. He’s a hypocrite of the highest order.

spicynujac
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1. That’s what we’re saying here. That ultimately ONS aren’t rewarding. I don’t care for them.
2. Instead of getting caught up in semantics, let’s focus on solutions. If all the men are “weak”, the answer is to strengthen them. If they are “ignorant”, the answer is to train them. The question is how to strengthen or train those who need it.
3. Then share your own thoughtfulness. Roosh doesn’t write every article. Take what you can from those you agree with. Ignore the advice or writings that aren’t helpful.

FerdinandLaMothe
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1. There’s a big ad on my screen saying: “Join 40,000 other men on my free email newsletter and learn how to meet women. Articles include: 7 Tips For First Dates That Lead To Sex, How To Tease A Girl, How To Handle Flakey Girls, and a whole lot more.” When that ad and the others like it are removed from this site, I’ll take it more seriously.

2. Solutions? Listen to your family, your teachers and the government.

Morrison
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“2. Solutions? Listen to your family, your teachers and the government”

Bitch, go make us a fuckin’ sandwich.

john malonoy
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You said:

“I’d say the majority of these men just don’t see the world for how it really is. And it is painful to accept these truths. Like how the traitor guy in the Matrix”

I don’t dispute this point. But this is why civilisations always fall, because most people are creatures of comfort and will even do great evil to preserve their comfort (even when they have been lied to and will be killed after the act anyways). Basically, if the above holds true, then you are saying that most western populations (who are still majority white) are finished because morality is too much for them to grasp – they would rather have their iPhones and follow the Kardashians, than to ever make a real effort to improving their current situation where they are bombing the world and also aborting the babies of their own future generations.

I consider at least half of the jewish people to be the most sociopathic evil slavemasters; but they would not get as far as they have if they did not have a population of mostly compliant brainwashed slaves who love their servitude and would rather die than to attempt to do some real good in this world. Such a people are then arguably doomed to hell; and in this life there is no point trying to fight for such a corrupted people. Not only do the slavemasters need to die, but the vast majority of the masses will inevitably die as they are all worthless zombie slaves living an unsustainable lie – and they don’t deserve and will get no ‘hero’ to save them, but rather a liar to slowly make them fall asleep who then kills them.

john malonoy
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Isn’t neomasculinity just a search for the old masculinity that has been forgotten due to our socially engineered era – I mean, why re-invent the wheel so to speak?

The old masculinity will come back as our societies collapse (due to the tribe) and we are forced to ‘man up’ again – removal of economic incentives for women to be sluts and whores will ensure that the surviving women are forced to take up traditional gender roles, or else have to suffer and possibly perish in not being able to provide for themselves in a new era with a new social structure and economy.

Many ‘westernised’/modern men will not survive this transition, being wholly dependent on the existing society which is artificially structured and hence promotes the existence of many kinds of men who really shouldn’t exist, at least not in their current form with their current behaviours. I’m pretty sure long term monogamous relationships will make a massive comeback in a new era of a deindustrialised economy with massive depopulation (following a collapsed economy and subsequent war). The west will suffer more than anywhere else and the surviving generation will be too busy trying to eat and will not war against each other any more. I say this process (war, chastisement) will start within less than a decade.

jared thompson
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I don’t think roosh intends to make a lot of money off neomasculinity – it is a solution he is offering, but I accept that traditional values are the way to go and do not need to be re-invented; perhaps any attempt to do so won’t succeed. We see life through a western/modern lens (even modernised youths in third world countries) where there is much free sex and unlimited opportunities; that is a very western-centric view of life and does not exist in more traditional and balanced environments, where those tribes may outlast our current western malaise/ mass insanity.

God does exist, and the vast majority of different religions are merely different perspectives on the same issues (apart from judaism, that’s luciferianism aka man as God, or satanism if you will – denying God and intending secretly to take his place). Marriage was an extension of God’s order here on earth, for few sex partners and marriage meant that societies could endure – as opposed to becoming mere hedonistic and ignorant beasts to be used by Zionist slavemasters who have behaviourally conditioned western populations with all sorts of self-destructive behaviours via societal programming, laws (TV and hollywood for example glamorising feminism, casual sex, mass abortions; and with current anti-male laws meaning the state (owned by jews) has more power over the family than the God-given right of the individual man).

Considering the above, it is not surprising men are seeking a way to right what is inevitably a sinking ship for most folk – they’re not going to make it. Whilst I favour group solutions, I have to say that only groups with more conservative attitudes to sexual relations and with an anti-war and anti-government stance are the ones that will prevail in the end. The real enemy isn’t some guy on a camel with a third-hand AK47 given to him by the US government – the real enemy is some backstabbing sociopathic prick who wants to kill off white people whilst blaming them for the world’s ills, and then make the remaining nonwhites his slaves.

bruguel
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You are right to the point with your comments. But I hold no hope for a return of old masculinity,…the western people have simply lost their “will to live”, to paraphrase Schopenhauer, and without a return of religion or some metaphysical sense in their lives, I don’t see how the tide can turn.The “immanent” reasons for degeneracy/demographic decline will be various,- homosexuals, economy etc,- but the end result is always the same, catastrophic demographic decline, or no reproduction, as Roosh put it, and this in various societies apparently so vastly different…and with vastly different levels of slavery to “the tribe”(Germany, Japan, etc).

jared thompson
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PUA can be a lot like drug and alcohol abuse. You mentioned the following line:

“If the dose of something must be increased in order to keep enjoying it, that probably means that you are pursuing an activity that is not giving you fulfilment”

This is something often seen in addicts, who need a greater dose to reach the same ‘high’. But bagging more babes can lead to a morose outlook on relationships and life in general after a while.

Being a ladies man is something many men dreamed of in the past, and our modern society offers many men opportunities they never had before because of so many slutty and idiotic & worthless women. The only problem is that such a social setup was unsustainable from the start – women were never naturally meant to have 30+ cocks in them without becoming somewhat insane, the same way men were not meant to become loatharios en masse.

PUA actually was an invention of Zionists (Strauss, Mystery, many others..) who used it as the inverse of feminism to lead to more inter-gender antagonism and lower birth rates. Unfortunately, many men (myself included) at least for a while, fell for and continue to fall for this tripe which is ultimately self-destructive for societies and races that adopt such ideologies in large numbers. Sadly, almost all women and a large percentage of men are feminists – they are perhaps incapable of behaving otherwise and thus can only perpetuate their own destruction (physical, spiritual, emotional) by continuing to engage in lots of casual sex and abortions, yet produce no real and lasting legacy.

john malonoy
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Promiscuity (sluttiness, PUA) is what is killing stable marriages and hence western society at large. Most men have taken the PUA pill which is the male version of feminism in the west with regards to dating relationships. Whilst its true most western women have become cum-dumpsters, we indulge in this perhaps a little too much.

At least if you go to Japan or Korea, or even modern parts of third world countries, the women are not as slutty or as useless for monogamous marriage as they are in the west (although they might be close). It is clear that so called ‘modern women’ with their ‘careers’ are not truly independent and are instead artificially socially engineered slaves to an economic system that will end up destroying them (and all of us along with their useless asses).

In some ways, despite their higher ‘salaries’, western people are the most enslaved – for they can only relate to that highly structured environment as a kept pet/slave. Most of them need a globalised economy so they can eat foods from all over the world year-round; the economy has become their GOD. And if Trump/’insert name of new God’ does not provide, the steeple get mad. It’s pathetic – even grown men show this child complex, never mind the fact that pretty much all politicians are corrupted, mirroring their society. Good people see this and get out of politics early. Also, Putin of russia and the iran premier are also proven to be on-board with this global chess game of zionist oligarchs and their brethren versus global populations.

It’s going to end badly within the next decade. And their plan is to get us to kill each other whilst they hide out – all wars are zionist bankers wars, never forget that.

Krum aka Крум Безстрашни
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PUA actually was an invention of Zionists

I’ve known it for ages and am glad to see others realizing it.

The biggest red flag is that PUAs and gamers fervently advise against marriage or advice to seek a wife from abroad – destroying both family and nations with one stone.

Roosh V has to take his whole collection of Bang books and burn it all on the stake. Unless, he does that I will never take this pseudo-intellectual talks with QC seriously.

But he’s in catch 22 situation as this is his livelihood now. Which is why I would respect him more if he continues to be a PUA instead of preaching these neomasculinity talks.

p.s. now, watch how he bans me again.

skillet
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We all live in the culture. I actually agree that a lot of PUA stuff destroys culture. Whetehr it is Zionist or globalist conspiracy culture of decadence, I have no idea.And as someone who lived with 3 different girls before getting married, I know I also contributed to negative aspects of culture.

But without living with one bitch from hell, then another very nice but homely girl that I stayed with mainly as PTSD from the first girl, I would never have had the experience to learn what I wanted.

I ended up with better than I deserved on the 3rd try. And with a foreign girl.

If all Roosh wrote about was PUA, I would not be interested. But he has taken his experience of youth (largely PUA) and is makig sense of it.

He is kind of between the generations of my son and me. So I am interested in what he has to say. But at the end of the day, I would not advise my son to go game and PUA. Or try to be a virgin til marriage (which he would ridicule any way).

He did appreciate the advice I gave him of using a condom even if she says she is on the pill. But I admit, I do not give much advice or talk about that area much.

Let him figure it out mostly. Last thing most dudes his age want to hear is a dad droning on.

Nasty Nomad
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Nice write up.
I am delighted to read this article.

skillet
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skillet
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I had an ethos as a young man that I would never sleep with a girl unless I could marry her. Did not always keep it, but somewhat did. And it saved my butt. I remember being the straight A geek, somewhat handsome, but a little shy, did not get laid that much. But I still shudder when I think of how the dorm whore suddenly took an interest in me one night and was literally rubbing her tits against me and “making her move”. Fortunately, I detacched myself and went up to my room alone. Found out later she was pregnant. I think she saw a future beta provider.

It is really hard to get dudes on the right track. Like squarinf the circle. Tell them not to sleep around. They may become a 40 year old virgin with no confidence who retreats into porn and video games. Big loser. Tell them to learn game, that bar whore may screw them over.

I am glad to see Roosh struggling with various problems and dilemmas. Spiritual phenomena, individualistic pragmatic approaches to women, ethical concerns.

But the issue will never be solved. A dude who learns game may end up dying of AIDS or getting syphills as his reward. A dude who finds the Lord and is a virgin til marriage may become a social retard.

Neo-masculinity will never solve these problems, but it is one of the best attempts I have seen.

spro23
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spro23
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I was a strict catholic up until about 18 years old.
, I think my deep faith completely screwed up my game with girls. my deep respect and adoration for them completely repulsed them and I didn’t quite figure that out for years. It makes you behave in a ‘humble’ way, constantly avoiding anything ‘sinful’ and being meek and asking forgiveness. women find this behavior pathetic. I can’t believe they teach young men that bullshit knowing the true nature of women.

but like you said, the silver lining is I didn’t knock up any of those bitches or get an STD, which is what would’ve happened if I had better game in college.

skillet
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skillet
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I learned enough game by the age of 25 or so. Funny, but the only time I ever behaved “alpha” was the night I met my wife. Went to a party with another girl, ugly, intending to ditch her. And talk to another girl. (I knew enough about Japan and foreign parties to know before I went the type of parties that would have lots of hot women.)

I saw my wife and knew I could not let her get away. Had never thought that before. Other dudes tried to talk to her. Rather than allow than to snake her, I switched to English/French/Japanese to exclude then. (I am terrible at excluding dudes with just talking, but my geek abilities shone through that night so I just switched languages when a dude tried to cut in.. Nobody was going to cut is like they usually did. Got her number. Sent flowers afterh the first date.)

I ditched the poor ugly girl. As soon as I thought my future wife had gone home, I talked shit to another babe and got her number too. Turns out, my now wife had not gone home but was hiding and spying with her girlfriends. She aferwards talked about my shameful behaviour that night. aND TOLD me how her girflriends talked bad of my behaviour. But I am convininced to this day that is the only reason she was interested. The hottest girl I ever dated I married. Luck of the socially retarded geek who shone for one evening. That was in the early 90’s)

Morrison
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Morrison
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“But the issue will never be solved. A dude who learns game may end up dying of AIDS or getting syphills as his reward. A dude who finds the Lord and is a virgin til marriage may become a social retard.”

Thats a good point; essentially there are prices to pay for either decision in life. Funny, as you described yourself you essentially were describing me at one point in my life. I had the same ethos as well, and even to the point that i even took the position that if i sleeep with s girl i intended to marry i would also not have a problem if i got her accidently knocked up. My first year of college we had a dorm cum bucket as well who one night plugged every guy in our hallway except me and a few others. At first i felt a bit “left out” but that sentiment didnt last long because very shortly after a few guys needed to get to the VD clinic.

But indeed that struggle, as you put it, exists of what brings up true pleasure and meaning, and there is no simple answer.

Alhikma
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Alhikma
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Know that the life of this world is but amusement and diversion and adornment and boasting to one another and competition in increase of wealth and children – like the example of a rain whose [resulting] plant growth pleases the tillers; then it dries and you see it turned yellow; then it becomes [scattered] debris. And in the Hereafter is severe punishment and forgiveness from Allah and approval. And what is the worldly life except the enjoyment of delusion. 57-20