Never Let A Girl Reject You Twice

How many times has one of the following happened to you:

Scenario 1: You approach a girl in a bar, talk for a minute, and then she abruptly ends the conversation first. You gracefully move on, but then a few minutes later she’s giving you obvious stares, maybe even positioning herself close to you. It seems like she changed her mind and wants to talk to you again. You reapproach her and she rejects you immediately.

Scenario 2: A girl you like in dancing in the club. You do a dance approach. She rejects you. Then two minutes later you see her grinding the stripper pole. She’s giving you deep eye contact while licking the pole and making her booty clap. You glance behind you to see if she’s staring at another guy, but she’s indeed looking right at you. You approach her again. She frowns, tells you to go to hell, then calls the bouncer, who kicks you out in a rough manner.

I even made a reenactment video when a girl who had previously rejected me stood too close for comfort. She tricked me and I was rejected again:

Why does a guy go out? To get laid. Why does a girl go out? To get validated and maybe get laid. There is no better way for a girl to be validated than to create some mini-drama where the same guy is jumping through hoops to get at her after she already rejected him. I’m so hot and desirable that that man over there keeps approaching me. I’m going to update my Facebook status about how clueless men are.

Even though she’s not interested, she will encourage the hell out of you just to get you to keep trying, all so that she can receive a big validation boost (something she will never admit to wanting). It’s your job as a man not to give her that boost unless your dick will also be boosted by penetrating one of her holes.

If she ends the conversation first on her own volition, meaning there was no cockblock or fire in the bar, it’s 100% over. I don’t care how close she stands next to you or if she accidentally touches you. I don’t care how many brief stares she gives you. If she ends the conversation saying she’ll come back, but doesn’t, it’s over. If her friend enters the conversation and she doesn’t make an attempt to include you, it’s over.

On the other hand, if she ends the conversation but then walks back up to you to reinitiate contact, or she waves and smiles at you from across the bar (Polish girl method), feel free to resume the chat. Other than that, any attempt on your part to restart something that she so eagerly killed would be providing her with validation at the expense of your sex goal.

You’re not a bus that comes every 10 minutes. You’re not the 7-11 that stays open 24 hours a day. You’re the once in a millenia asteroid that lands in Siberia and kills a lot of small animals. If she happens to miss that then she will die before having the chance to experience it again. She has one opportunity with you and that’s the opportunity that you create with your approach. If she does not explore that opportunity with her most capable social being, then she can fuck off.

Read Next: 7 Things You Can Do To Improve Your Game Right Now

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GunShow
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GunShow
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BOOM!!

JNC
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JNC
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“You’re not a bus that comes every 10 minutes. You’re not the 7-11 that stays open 24 hours a day. You’re the once in a millenia asteroid that lands in Siberia and kills a lot of small animals.”

Been reading your blog for 5 months and this is the best analogy I’ve seen by far

livingnowalways
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“You’re the once in a millenia asteroid that lands in Siberia and kills a lot of small animals.”

EPIC.

Juergen
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looks like someone didn’t get laid last night. aww poor baby.

pat
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pat
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Hi Roosh

What clubs in Poznan do you go to?

Solo
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“She’s giving you deep eye contact while licking the pole and making her booty clap”

I got a good chuckle from this

🙂

Jake
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Meh.

I remember getting rejected seventy four times by a cute thing at a bar in Boston. She gave in at closing time. Dancer for the Boston ballet, fantastic booty.

Sometimes the ones actually worth your time don’t like bars, or guys hitting on girls in bars. There is the fine nuance lost on most guys, rejection, vs. rejection. If you’re a douche, you’re probably going to get your ass kicked by the guy friend sooner or later.

It’s the girls who will reject no-matter-who-you-are out of hand. Roosh sounds like he still takes that stuff personally … I don’t. Same as picking a lock, it’s just mechanics, and whether it’s worth the trouble.

Johnny Milfquest
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Well said. I love the asteroid analogy. I also like the plain speaking.

“Why does a guy go out? To get laid.”

Now to me, that’s a truism. But the regular commenters on my blog (god bless em) will never wrap their heads around that concept.

The Glee Manifesto
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The Glee Manifesto
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I was thinking lately, and this reminded me, maybe it’s time for a reboot of the video re-enactment contest?

Wolf
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Wolf
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“Why does a guy go out? To get validated by getting laid.”

FTFY

Johnny Milfquest
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@Wolf: No, I just go out to get laid. If there was no pussy out there I’d be a hermit.

Peter
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Peter
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Good advice. Having these rules is good because it takes these shitty doubts away when the situation arises. Some PUA advice says to just plow until you drop, but I have never laid a chick that gave me a reaction like this before. No pumping up egos!

The only thing that pisses me off is when the only hot chick goes home with some other guy that did an even shittier approach and she goes home with him just to fill the validation hole I created.

The best thing to counter this is to select your venues well and roll in with a few female friends.

Kane
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Kane
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Validation whores deserve zero attention. It’s like feeding a troll, they just keep coming back for more.

Unfortunately, a majority of men don’t understand this and they keep feeding these girls’ inflated egos.

Diego
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Diego
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Roosh, is this post motivated by recent experiences in Poland?

PUA Vault
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Classic. “you’re weird…what’s your name?” haha.

schwanson
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“You’re not a bus that comes every 10 minutes. You’re not the 7-11 that stays open 24 hours a day. You’re the once in a millenia asteroid that lands in Siberia and kills a lot of small animals. If she happens to miss that then she will die before having the chance to experience it again. She has one opportunity with you and that’s the opportunity that you create with your approach. If she does not explore that opportunity with her most capable social being, then she can fuck off.”

God damn! I’m putting that in a frame and hanging it over my condom drawer.

Include this in your “hall of fame” or “best of” or what have you.

AlekNovy
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Kinda similar to this:

http://aleknovy.com/2011/07/18/the-anti-game-method-if-you-hate-game-and-find-it-incompatible-with-mra-and-matriarchy-fighting/

I guess it’s a level of maturity we all arrive at after years of picking up. Most of the guys I know who’ve done this shit for years eventually reach this same conclusion. Most of them eventually what I call anti-game. I think it comes from

A) Learning just how much women crave an ego-boost. Learning that validation is the real currency in women’s world

B) Learning that “plowing” has an amazingly bad return-on-investment.

C) Learning to respect yourself and your own time. She’s just some random slut.

===========

A bunch of inexperienced guys told me that apparently it doesn’t punish a woman if you walk away when she acts like shit. They believe that the only thing a woman is rewarded or punished by is a “committed relationship”. These guys must have zero experience with women.

These men don’t get that women are rewarded by attention. When you take it away, they do lose a ton. Especially if you do it like I do, CHUCKLE and walk away laughing like she did something embarrassing and NEVER look her way again. Ever.

Unless she tracks you down later and SHE approaches you begging, she’s written off for life. And yes, it does happen. A certain percentage do realize what they lost and come track you down.

DonovanVC
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Too rigid a rule.

I would re-approach girl in Scenario 1

But never re-approach the girl in Scenario 2.

In Scenario 1, especially if you hollared early in the night, the girl might still be a bit shy and uptight, and have loosened up later and be receptive to your advance.

AlekNovy
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In Scenario 1, especially if you hollared early in the night, the girl might still be a bit shy and uptight, and have loosened up later and be receptive to your advance.

Have some self-respect man…

AlekNovy
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I remember getting rejected seventy four times by a cute thing at a bar in Boston. She gave in at closing time. Dancer for the Boston ballet, fantastic booty.

And there was probably a chick just as hot, 10 feet away from her whom you just neeeded to say to “Hey, let’s go” and take her to your apartment.

Women who would reject you 74 times even though they want to fuck you are probably more likely to break your car-windshields in the morning or falsely accuse you of rape. Have some self-respect man. Don’t go for insecure psychos.

It’s the girls who will reject no-matter-who-you-are out of hand. Roosh sounds like he still takes that stuff personally … I don’t. Same as picking a lock, it’s just mechanics, and whether it’s worth the trouble.

Give it another 3-5 years of experience, you’ll come around.

You’re falling for the oldest-trick in the book. No, a woman doing false-rejecting to create fake-scarcity is not “higher-quality”. Women of the highest quality don’t need to falsely inflate perceived value.

Nestorius
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“You’re the once in a millenia asteroid that lands in Siberia and kills a lot of small animals. If she happens to miss that then she will die before having the chance to experience it again.”

Well, she still can find a better dick before dying. So, in reality, she’s not missing anything.

AlekNovy
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Well, she still can find a better dick before dying. So, in reality, she’s not missing anything.

It’s not about getting dick, it’s about getting approval and ego-gratification.

Women hate being the rejected one… Even if you’re just rejecting the notion of hitting on her a second time.

@alekNovy
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@alekNovy
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agree: if they are the 2nd choice, women wont forgive themselves and taste the failure of their feminity

Bortimus
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Technically it was a comet, and it didn’t land since the friction in the atmosphere heated it up to the point of exploding in air, creating an effect similar to a nuclear explosion rather than a meteorite impact. And what’s really fascinating is that if I were telling this to a girl you’d actually be able to see her eyes roll back into her head…

Bigfoot
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I agree, this mindset gives you the power.
She’s the one missing out on an awesome guy.

Royce Geist
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Rough, but that’s the way it’s gotta be, no second chances period.

PermanentGuest
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I must say, what sets you apart from the other bloggers in this arena is your willingness to learn from your mistakes, as opposed to hiding behind a facade of perfection.

Keep blogging.

PG

Peter
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Peter
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Roosh, what do you think about the “I am going to the toilet” situations. Does this count as a rejection?

Nestorius
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Nestorius
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AlekNovy,

“It’s not about getting dick, it’s about getting approval and ego-gratification.”

Same thing. Dick = approval. This what I meant. And it doesn’t matter if dick is into her, around her or staring at her from 10 feet. And it’s really easy for a chick who’s attractive enough to get approval and, consequently, ego-gratification.

As for unattractive chicks, why would you want to approach them anyway?

Piotr
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“You’re the once in a millenia asteroid that lands in Siberia and kills a lot of small animals”

Actually, this area is called TUNGUSKA.

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Jason
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Nice post. But desperate times call for desperate measures and I’m not going to let my pride get in the way of getting a new girl.

As we both know, in Argentina you have to go back to a girl after rejection in order to get anywhere with those girls. I’m not basing my world-wide game off the backwardness of Argentina game but I will say it taught me to be more persistent with flaky girls.

Although it mostly fails, I’ve found a second approach work in my favor enough times (maybe 10%) that it’s a low-risk move I’ll keep doing.

Dirt Man
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“You’re the once in a millenia asteroid that lands in Siberia and kills a lot of small animals.”

“She has one opportunity with you and that’s the opportunity that you create with your approach. If she does not explore that opportunity with her most capable social being, then she can fuck off.”

In my humble option, these are the most lucid and helpful things you’ve ever written Roosh. Men should apply these to every aspect of their interactions with women.

Excellent work Sir.

Riker
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Yea in Argentina I’ve seen guys go for it over and over until the girl finally caves in, and theres tons of stories of hot girls about how their boyfriends tried to get with them for months. I remember I went on like 5 or 6 dates once before the bang with one. Kinda sucks…. though they are hot…

Anonymous
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I agree with you on your points,however I think this Brazilian chick drops some knowledge on “Love”
for those who dont understand Brazilian portuguese.
well Im sorry,I almost think feminism is reaching brazil these days as we speak at break neck speed.
Well they did just vote in a female president a while back.

http://youtu.be/F_wl2Hho7SU

@Jason
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Jason, I dont get it, how is giving up your pride alpha? Do alphas give up their pride? Why some guys think an alpha would take shit from a bitchy girl is beyond me – alphas have choices, if a girl is bitchy, he moves on. He dont give a shit.

Of course girls sense this. If a girl rejects you, your ONE chance of getting her back is to walk away, because she KNOWS no genuine alpha would ever approach her again. She’s gotta seek you out.

Anonymous
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Man I guess theres is starting to be alot of hate toward men in Brazil(feminism).I think Ive just scratched off Brazilian women of my list.

http://youtu.be/bH8tRrEVrBo

AlekNovy
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Of course girls sense this. If a girl rejects you, your ONE chance of getting her back is to walk away, because she KNOWS no genuine alpha would ever approach her again. She’s gotta seek you out.

Exactamundo. These guys who believe in plowing through speak at length about being “high status” and “alpha”, but does an ALPHA guy who has 200 women chasing him “plow”

Fuck no. He has 200 women calling on the other line. There’s no better indicator of faux-alphaness than plowing.

Anonymous
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@38
Once a guy can get to the point in his life where he can waste a chick knowing that theres a shit load more around,thats a guy who has options.they will come after you if you demonstrate it in your actions with women.women hate rejection more than men.

Anonymous
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I understand what you’re saying Roosh, in terms of hurt pride, the natural reaction is respond with a defensive “fuck ya then” posture.

But it doesn’t matter whether or not you’re a special comet. The only thing that matters is whether or not she realizes it. You wanna walk away so you don’t hurt your pride, great. But don’t fool yourself into thinking that she’s lost anything because she hasn’t. She has only lost something good if she knows it was good. Look, if I offered you a frog eyeball sandwich and said it was the most delicious thing you could ever eat, you would be grossed out and pass. It doesn’t matter if it IS the best food you could ever have. If I said, fine your loss and ate it myself, you think you would feel any pangs of regret? Nope, you wouldn’t. The girl who rejected you doesn’t give a shit whether or not you come back. She may try to play with you later, but it’s not going to bother her if you don’t play back. She’ll think (and laugh to herself), “aw, I guess he is still pissed at me for rejecting his ass. LOL.”

While I understand your reaction and do it myself, it’s not necessarily the best thing to do all the time. The video you posted above was too confrontational and vengeful.

I think if a chick comes back to you after rejecting you, the odds aren’t bad that she’s simply changed her mind. Maybe not, but maybe. Saying, “why are you standing next to me” is not going to make her wet.

Instead, you could try a more playful approach and think of her as a finicky kid. You assume women are adults. They are not. They are children and have no idea what the fuck they want.

I might try something like, “Oh, isn’t that cute.”
Her: “What?”
You: “You changed your mind and want to talk to me after all.”
Her: “What?”
You: “I noticed what you did. You came all the way back her and stood next to me hoping I would talk to you again. I think it’s cute.”
Her: (shyly) “Get outta here. I did not.”
You: “It’s OK. You can talk to me if you want.”

I’m not saying it will always work, and I do think women crave attention and validation, but if a girl goes as far as to come back to YOU, I think the odds are good that she has changed her mind and is interested.

Kids are like this. They think one thing one minute and another the next. You gotta talk to girls like you do kids. Don’t assume they think like adults do and know what they want and why they do what they do. They often don’t. And in my experience, they respond very well to the patronizing adult-child attitude more often than not.

AlekNovy
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But it doesn’t matter whether or not you’re a special comet. The only thing that matters is whether or not she realizes it.

Trying to make sure people realize you have value is a major sign of low-self-esteem.

But don’t fool yourself into thinking that she’s lost anything because she hasn’t.

Dayum. With such low self-respect you don’t even need enemies, you got that covered.

I think if a chick comes back to you after rejecting you, the odds aren’t bad that she’s simply changed her mind. Maybe not, but maybe. Saying, “why are you standing next to me” is not going to make her wet.

Why the fuck do you even care if she comes back or not? Does an alpha with 200 chicks in the buffer care if one comes or not?

OMG I HAVE TO MAKE SURE I HEAR EVERY POSSIBLE NO JUST TO MAKE SURE I’M NOT MISSING OUT ON A POSSIBLE YES, OMG

Have some self-respect dude, move on. There’s usually a chick just as hot as her, standing just 10 feet away. And this other chick, all you have to say is “let’s go” and that’s it. You take her home.

Why do you act like a hot chick is the last hot chick on planet earth?

Anonymous
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Alek, if you’re too dense to understand what I’ve written and what was meant by it, I’m not going to take the time to explain it to you further as you’re probably too dense to understand the explanation. Your high school tactics of twisting my words are amusing, sure, but don’t lend themselves very well to an actual discussion.

As for your “all you gotta do is say let’s go and that’s it,” whatever. I’ve met your type IRL plenty of times and it’s the guys that talk shit like you that end up in the corner of the club with their dicks in their hands all night. If it’s really that easy for you, then congratulations. All you gotta do is show up. Other than the fact you’re very obviously lying, it doesn’t work like that for anyone but famous musicians and actors. Most guys (nay, all guys) need to actually demonstrate some value. I looked at your webpage, and while you’ve got some of the psychological principles down, your application of them sucks ass. You’re a fucking idiot that doesn’t understand something as simple as what a ‘reward’ is. A reward is whatever makes them happy. And then you say, “kissing her or taking her home is a reward”. Really? Since that is a reward, then that is what she ALREADY wants. And since that’s what you’re after, why wouldn’t you take it since that’s what she already wants, too? Your kiss, as delusional as you may be, is not a reward in her eyes you dumb shit. You obviously fell asleep in the class about Skinner. Nice theory, but it doesn’t stand up. Learn to read, re-read my post, and then come back with something semi-intelligent to say.

Anonymous
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Forgot to add:

In a nutshell, positive reinforcement is not a reward you give out for perfect behavior (sex) since she never performs that. Instead, in a case like this, it’s a reward you give for desirable behavior. Anything that bring the target closer to the goal. It normally happens in increments. She stands closer to you, reward. She stands farther, punish. She touches you, reward. She pouts, punish. The idea is to get her to do more of what is desirable and less of what is not. The definition of reward is something that makes her happy. If you ask her for her phone number and she balks, how the fuck is that a reward, you retard? “Take away the cookie.” Puh-lease. By definition, a reward is something that makes her happy. Twist it however you want in your moronic little mind, but kissing her is not a reward unless she already wants it. And if she already wants it, there’s no need for positive reinforcement unless your goal is to have her continue. Most of us guys don’t have a problem continuing when the girl already likes us. Maybe you have a problem keeping a girl interested and therefore need to employ the Skinner approach just so she doesn’t run away?

Now you can take what I’ve written, if you even get it, that is, and go fix your shitty website.

AlekNovy
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Hey man, anonymous, if you insist that you have no inherent value and if you believe that you, your time and attention are worthless, who am I to convince you otherwise?

Besides, professionals charge heavy money for that kind of stuff. I don’t do psychotherapy for free 🙂

Anonymous
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Ah, still with the high school games of building straw men rather than actually backing up your argument, huh?

Truth is, your angry and vengeful response to a woman who rejects you (I’m not talking about rude bitches here, just those that aren’t open to your advances and reject you reasonably politely) is a childish defense for your fragile ego. Additionally, your black and white approach shows just how little you understand about male-female relations.

That’s OK. Keep convincing yourself that it’s you, not her, that rejected you if it makes you feel better. Whatever gets you through the night, man.

AlekNovy
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As for your “all you gotta do is say let’s go and that’s it,” whatever. If it’s really that easy for you, then congratulations. All you gotta do is show up. Other than the fact you’re very obviously lying, it doesn’t work like that for anyone but famous musicians and actors.

You have no reason to believe me. I’m some anonymous guy online. However, the studies show the same.

The scientific studies that tested this were using random dorks to do this experiment, not musicians or politicans.

I guess the scientists in 3 different countries are also conspiring against gamers when they make these studies? Hint, 10-20% of women in these studies said yes to a guy just asking them to come over to his apartment – straight from hello… no gaming, no value demonstration… Nothing, just “hi, you’re interesting, wanna come to my place.”

People I guess all the hundreds of reports on the apocalypse opener are fake too? Oh, and those studies must have been faked to spite gamers right?

Anonymous
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Finally, you decided to start discussing this like a (more) normal person. Congratulations on your progress.

Now if we can continue this in a civilized way, perhaps someone here will learn something.

On to the studies you cite… The first two studies show that no women will go home or have sex with a random stranger. (The 6% is negligible in one study.) The third shows that none will agree to sex, but 21% will go home with you. That is a HUGE jump. I have to wonder if that result is valid. Maybe it is, though.

The real litmus test, though, is how these guys that asked looked. Out of 11 guys, I imagine there must have been two or three that were quite good looking.

What if, out of 11 guys, two or three were very good looking and all the girls they asked said yes? The other 8 guys, average to ugly, could have been rejected 100% of the time and you’d still have a final result of 20%. I would be interested in seeing the results of each individual guy.

That said, I have seen stranger things happen. One guy I know has fucked at least three chicks in a bar where less than 10 words were exchanged. In one case, absolutely none were. He is not supermodel material but he is fairly good looking, IMO. I don’t think an ‘average’ guy – a little fat, maybe starting to bald, wearing glasses, wearing a t-shirt and jeans – would have fared so well. I am open to the possibility that I could be wrong though.

Also of great importance is how hot the girls being asked were. If the 20% were pigs who never get any attention elsewhere, then no only is that not surprising, but it’s also nothing to be happy about. I’m not into bestiality. I have seen many videos of guys running day game, so proud of themselves and touting themselves as gurus, and yet they are standing there talking to a fucking COW for 30 minutes getting her digits. “And that’s how it’s done guys!” Please. They can keep the cows. I’d rather fail 99 times and get that 1 hottie than fuck 99 cows and fail once.

Finally, if the numbers are accurate and applicable to average guys – if your average dude can score 21% of women and have them agree to go home with him – then there’s no need for game at all. Likewise, there’s no need for your anti-game either. There’s no need for anything more than that one opener. 50% agree to a date! That is fucking huge IF the girl is attractive. But if we’re talking random girls where 70% of the population is too fat to live, then we are probably talking a whole other thing here.

Question. Have you tried this experiment yourself on dozens of women? If you have, and your numbers are anywhere close to those in the experiment on your page, then why do you bother with your anti-game at all?

That said, I’d like to go back to something I said in my previous comment. Your ideas for changing a woman’s behavior are good, in that you can use behavioral modification techniques to get more of what you want. But your application of the theory needs a bit of fixing. You can’t redefine ‘reward’ to whatever you want it to be. A reward is something she is happy to receive. Maybe a compliment. Maybe a kiss AFTER you know she likes receiving them from you. You can use this effectively with someone you’re already dating to get better behavior from her and more sex, perhaps, but it’s hard to apply with someone you’ve just met because you don’t know what they want except for a few universals such as giving them the feeling of being important. Of course, context is important. In bars, it’s likely to fall flat, but if it’s a classmate without an inflated ego, it might do wonders. Someone you met two seconds ago, though, that’s a tough one.

Again, maybe not necessary if you can just blurt out your intentions and get 20% to come home with you. Still, I don’t believe those numbers until I see more data. It’s just too high. 50% will go on dates? There’s more to this than the experimenters are telling us, IMO.

AlekNovy
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Anonymous… Stop over-thinking it so much.

You don’t actually think I read your 2 page comments do you? I scanned your first one for something un-insane and mentioned the studies on it.

I’m not interested in indulging your conspiracy theories and rationalizations. If you want to believe that you have no worth and you have to prove yourself to women through being a dancing monkey, that is your choice.

I’m not gonna help you by indulging your need to rationalize it to yourself. Listen…

It’s simple, you take a shower, see chick, “offer dick”. She doesn’t enthusiastically take it? Move on.

It’s that fucking simple. Stop over-thinking it.

Anonymous
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Wow, yes. Getting to sleep with some bearded lothario who only performs oral sex once every two years really is a fantastic privilege. Don’t miss out, ladies.

Anonymous
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for those who understand Portuguese this is a response video to the video @37. hilariuos.

http://youtu.be/algDAS1Vtm4