Notch Paradise vs Dream Girl Paradise

I will now ask you to make a decision between living in two different environments for six months.

The first environment is called Notch Paradise. You will be able to lay one new girl a week in the 6 range with practically no effort. They will be tolerable and sometimes interesting but rarely will you want to sleep with any of them more than a couple times. Instead, you satisfy your sexual hunger through entertaining bangs with a seemingly endless rotation of somewhat cute girls. You will not enter a long-term relationship.

The second environment is called Dream Girl Paradise. You will lay maybe one or two girls within your six month period, but they will be at least in the 8 range and quite pleasing and feminine. You will enter an enjoyable relationship with whatever girl you sleep with. The precursor feelings of love may develop. To add a new girl to the rotation is prohibitively costly, and so you would be stuck with one girl at a time.

Which environment is better? Which would you rather enter right now?

The answer will of course depend on who you are and where you are in life. Most younger men in the West will pick notch paradise, since that is what their general lack of sexual experience will demand and also what they are trained to do by the culture (sleep around for fun). Most older or experienced men who have had their fill of women will go for dream girl paradise, since a one-time lay with a 6 wouldn’t provide them with as much value.

My initial idea of poosy paradise was actually a combination of the two, where I would sleep with very beautiful girls in the 8+ range with little work. Even if I would be highly compatible with them, I’d quickly pass on each girl to keep sleeping with other beautiful girls. Unfortunately, I don’t think such a place exists for more than a fleeting moment, but notch paradise exists, and so does shades of dream girl paradise.

America, Scandinavia, and Southeast Asia are notch paradises, where the right game can allow you to sleep with high quantities of girls that pass your boner test (in the 6 range). Dream girl paradise exists in Russia and Ukraine (and possibly Belarus), where patience, work, and money can yield and hold an 8+ once every so often if you choose to pursue them using a semi-provider game. Other South American and Eastern European countries may also provide you with a dream girl environment, though they will fall somewhere between offering you relatively pain-free notches on cute girls along with infrequent opportunities to meet high quality women.

If you picked dream girl paradise as your preferred choice, you must get ready to expend labor in things like learning a language or figuring out how to move permanently to a new country. The key ingredient in getting your dream girl will actually be time—staying in one location and figuring that place out. If you picked notch paradise, you must get ready to do a thousand approaches. Staying in Thailand one month can yield many notches if you work at it, and won’t require you to do much more than approach like a maniac. Both paths are clearly lighted for you.

There is only one thing you must realize before embarking on your paradise tour: it’s inevitable for all men pursuing notch paradise to ease into wanting dream girl paradise (or at least taper down the pursuit of notches). Scoring notches is fun and important for men to understand women, but it’s not sustainable. After a certain amount of time, the notches don’t bring you much value, and so you’ll want to increase the quality you seek and move into a dream girl paradise search. This pattern is so consistent that I’ve never met a man who went from dating dream girls to going back and seeking notches (though a guy may temporarily want to bang a lot of sluts after he breaks up with his serious girlfriend to ease the pain). Men inevitably shift from a program of notches to quality. From the dozens of hardcore players I’ve met, this rule seems to be nearly universal, for better or worse.

If your notches aren’t giving you happiness like in the past, you have to up your quality, which will reduce your quantity. If sleeping with highly beautiful women isn’t doing it for you either, then you need other hobbies that aren’t centered on women. A piece of advice I’m reluctant to give you is not to bang too many women or even be too good with them, because then you just might get bored of them completely. Then your preferred paradise may be a little cabin in the woods.

If you like this post then check out my newest book, Poosy Paradise.

Related Posts For You

newest oldest most voted
Anon
Guest
Anon
Offline

Poland used to be both. I met a great girl there (her name was actually Marianna, which I thought was funny after reading Dead Bat), but I was lucky. The volume of them is low, and Westernization will eventually weed them out.

They are in higher quantities in the FSU, but the problem is burnout. It is so tough that you don’t build momentum to mass approach, meaning a lesser chance of finding the girl. There are more of them, but even in the FSU 99% of girls are not dream girls.

Love is elusive, almost impossible to find. I almost envy the kids who just want sex.

BraveAtheistGirl
Guest
BraveAtheistGirl
Offline

I prefer the first, because i admit i am a pretty girl and now that i am more consistent in the gym, i am turning more hot, however i am kind of a hermit, i dont feel that invested in someone too long plus i am not that socially savyy, we now each other a few times, enjoy my hotness and then the next smile

no woman posters
Guest
no woman posters
Offline

Get rekt slut

Big E. Smalls
Guest
Big E. Smalls
Offline

No one cares

Nick
Guest
Nick
Offline

Even if you find your “dream girl” the expectations you’ve imagined are so high that she’ll never live up to them and she’ll fall back to earth eventually (even if only by aging and losing her looks). I don’t like to use the word “love” anymore, I don’t believe in magic. You can have affection for another person, but it naturally fades or transforms as life goes on. I think most couples that stay together do so out of familiarity, having kids and lack of options past a certain age/SMV.

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

You misunderstand the concept.

The girl doesn’t have to fit a “shopping list”. You either feel it in your gut, or you don’t. It is very rare, but out of the thousands of sets I have done, I walked away from two quite nervous, unable to approach again for the rest of the day… After the date your body responds transcendentally, you cannot sleep, it feels like drugs. You think about her non-stop, trying to convince yourself that she isn’t all that so you don’t get needy, and when the relationship ends you’ll have a special place for her in your mind probably until the day you die. Also, do no equate this with marriage or family, those are logical decisions. Love fades, and these girls wouldn’t necessarily make good mothers or wives.

The first girl was very beautiful, but the second was unremarkable. A 7 at most I would rate her. I was dating an 8 at the same time, for which I felt nothing in comparison. I’m pretty sure the girl was a raging slut, and she smoked, terrible on paper, yet my gut responded. Probably the sweetest and most vulnerable girl I’ve ever met in my life. But when passion fades, so should the relationship.

Remember this is not a shopping list. The expectations are in my gut, not my head.

Nick
Guest
Nick
Offline

It’s an amorphous concept to start so far be it from you to explain it. Some girls will be much better genetic matches and they’ll be few and far between, but it’s biology not “love”.

Tom Dane
Guest
Tom Dane
Offline

You are right, there is no shopping list. Or there might be one, but the dream girl is always different each time.

OldManTakeALook
Guest
OldManTakeALook
Offline

The girl I’ve felt the most loving
protective
caring for
was terrible on paper

black
pothead
insecure
not my hottest
too high partner count
not really going anywhere in life

but she was sweet
she was vulnerable
she was tight
she was young
she loved me
she loved my motorcycles
she believed in me
and I didn’t know what I had

and neither did she.

bob
Guest
bob
Offline

both of you had herpes

OldManTakeALook
Guest
OldManTakeALook
Offline

and as soon as you find love that’s 1 in 1000, you beta out
you get excited
you give up hand
and lose it
that is if you’re anything like me
just trying to spread the love
but always fucking it up

jbird669
Guest
jbird669
Offline

Being a divorced father with limited time to go out, I am in the first camp right now. I see Roosh’s logic and agree it will happen to me, but I am having fun in my notch paradise (6 lays since I seriously started approaching this spring).

Voyager
Guest
Voyager
Offline

And where is this “notch paradise” that you speak of?

jbird669
Guest
jbird669
Offline

Notch paradise in the sense that I am getting a variety of lays. Nothing higher than 6s mind you, just making up for my 20s when I was in LTRs and a (now failed) marriage.

hi
Guest
hi
Offline

he means what country? location?

Peter Long
Guest
Peter Long
Offline

That’s always the question. Without the right intel what’s the point of any of it?

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

Probably the Anglospere. Pussy Paradise really has been in your back yard all these days. The Anglosphere is a field day for skilled players. Notch count ease rougly goes like this:

Black Africa > Anglosphere and Scandinavia > SE Asia > Central Europe > Western Europe (not including Mediterranean) > Latin America > FSU > Southern Europe

Dream girl percentage is rougly like this:

FSU >>>>>> Central Europe = Latin America = NE and SE Asia > Western Europe > Anglospere and Scandinavia

jbird669
Guest
jbird669
Offline

I know that, but being in America, in PA, one may not consider it a notch paradise.

odbo
Guest
odbo
Offline

One thing people don’t seem to understand is that depraved people are never happy, regardless of how many pussies they’ve banged! To be happy the first requirement is that you have to like yourself, and I know for a fact none of these PUA do.

But it is easier to destroy than to create, and it is easier to conform to a methodology thousands of years old than it is to pick your own path in life.

doob
Guest
doob
Offline

Discontentment is the lifeblood of man; happiness is death of man.

Do you revere any “happy” men?

I don’t.

Embracing “happiness” is like choosing to live the life of a borderline ‘tard.

One fine day, ‘tard wakes up and his addled, overstimulated downy synapses just happen to fire off the wrong series of potentials. Epiphany. For a moment, fleeting, Einstein understands his lot.

A similarly stunted “happy” man, a complacent man, runs the same risk every day of his life.

There’s even a name for the phenomenon: “midlife crisis.”

“Depraved” is code for “envied.”

odbo
Guest
odbo
Offline

this sounds like your hamster on overspeed

fgk
Guest
fgk
Offline

If you’re a guy, you are a classic case of projection I think. He said “envied”. You know you actually do envy him, so your hamster spins in… and projects itself to him.

If you’re a girl, you just don’t know what you’re talking about (since you seek a fulfilling relationship, not notches, and don’t have the empathy to imagine a man’s motivations) and there’s nothing wrong with that.

U S. Open Sores
Guest
U S. Open Sores
Offline

Fag.

Guest
Guest
Guest
Offline

This is the same person responding to himself obdo is an anagram of doob.

OldManTakeALook
Guest
OldManTakeALook
Offline

wait.. your last point doesn’t make sense.
Destroying is easier than creating, true.
So isn’t it harder to “conform to 1000 years of tradition”
and the easier way to pick your own path?
since that’s “destroying tradition”

are you saying PUA is thousands of years old? What the hell are you even saying?

Voyager
Guest
Voyager
Offline

I’m curious to know which of “South American and Eastern European countries” that Roosh speaks of falls somewhere between dream girl and notch paradise. I’m betting Poland is one of those places.

Daniel
Guest
Daniel
Offline

Roosh, how many notches do you think are enough to get you stop and seek for a dream girl?

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

He is talking about girls that you will find once, maybe twice, in your whole dating career, and that is under the pretense that you stick at it for years. Once you find a girl like this, you keep her (at least until the emotions fade), because you won’t find another in years. This is irrespective of your current notch-count.

Pantheon Dweller
Guest

When you get bored. You’ll know when it comes, It’s not something you plan.

lacedric deshaun
Guest
lacedric deshaun
Offline

The Real G of the game wrote an article-
http://www.rooshv.com/how-many-notches-is-enough

In short-
Most places in the West 25 is the minimum.

poledaddy
Guest
poledaddy
Offline

Awesome article as usual Roosh. Only thing is you mentioned American and SE Asia in the same sentence as notch paradises. Doesn’t that statement deserve some qualification – especially in light of your last article on night game?

America is a notch paradise for a tiny, tiny percentage of American men. For the overwhelming majority of men, even those that invest a great deal into self improvement, America is paradise lost. Even if they are just trying to wrack up notches with 6’s.

This is because a) even 6’s are becoming increasingly scarce in most parts of the country and b) 5+ American women feel they are entitled to 10s in the spectrum of American males for dating and sex, until their looks fade and are “ready to settle down”. Your recent articles on the American dating scene have highlighted this.

SE Asia – I think we can all agree a drastically larger range of men will find success there pursuing notches with women that pass the sober boner test, than they would in America.

Tris
Guest
Tris
Offline

I have lived in both SE Asia and America and I still don’t get why you guys think it’s easier to find 6’s and above in SEA. Seriously!?

Perhaps beauty standards vary due to our difference in culture. Don’t get me wrong, we all hate fat and ugly chicks. But if you put a SE Asian and a white Western guy into a club they will chase after girls with totally different facial structures.

White guys in SE Asia, I find, chase after girls with dark skin, high cheek bones, and “chinese-looking” eyes, which are all undesired features from an Asian perspective. And have I mentioned boobs and ass? I repeat, 70% Asian women have no boobs and ass, and not just because of malnutrition, it’s purely a genetic problem.

So I guess it’s fortunate that our preferences do not overlap.

DeCode
Guest
DeCode
Offline

I agree somewhat. As a young fit black guy in Pattya (or however u spell it) my friends and I were in pussy paradise.

Unlike the locals and even white expat crowd, we prefered the fat assed, hour glassed eastern, country girl thais. I had no idea there were Asia gurls with Latin figure and pretty smooth dark brown skin. Never mind the exotic loose kinky locks that crowned thier heads.

Many were amazed that we found them desirable and within 3 days we each had rotaing open harems of unique atypical Thai beauties at our beck and call.

xxxxxx
Guest
xxxxxx
Offline

One more anecedotal proof of my theory that God gave men difference preferences so no woman got left behind, enabling the species to propagate. Asian men go for stick insects. Blakc men go for the thicker heavier types and white men go for the in-between.

poledaddy
Guest
poledaddy
Offline

Take your average American 30 year old (aka average looks, not wealthy enough to live in NYC or LA). Do you honestly think he’s not going to be happier dating in SEA, than he would in typical shit-town America?

“Fortunate our preference do not overlap.” ah, seems like you are hating on what white guys consider attractive rather than you are trying to make a case that America is better. That’s cool, to each his own dick. But it does seem like a typical under the radar asian-trace-roll type of shit you always see pop up around these parts. Why are so many asian guys so quick to jump into comments on any posts about white guys going to SEA or asian girls/white guys “yeah well white guys only date UGLY asians”

It’s like dork white guys who get pissed off about black guys dating white women and chime in “whatever black guys only date FAT white chicks”. Then why do you even give a shit to waste your time commenting?

As an Asian guy if you are happy in America stay here and bang all the white chicks you want. Knock em up and breed some hot halfies – oh god no you are polluting the white race! I could give a shit less. But it is annoying when you ART fucks derail comments on SEA / date asian girl threads so just stop.

carl marcelin
Guest
carl marcelin
Offline

Woa wait a minute! You’re saying beauty thick dark brown tai women? Shit, man please give more info…..sounds like jackpot for me! Were exactly? ……give a complete data sheet! Please! Lol

DeCode
Guest
DeCode
Offline

I assume that was directed at me. They can be found all over Thailand. But if you want it dropped in your lap (literally) then Pattaya, Club Flex will get you started. Your head will darn near explode from the talent there. And no it’s not a “Go Go Bar”.

Jios
Guest
Jios
Offline

My friends in the Philippines right now are fucking fair skinned 23 year olds at the age of 35-40 and they aren’t paying either.

Secondly, the reason a lot of S.E Asian men don’t find dark skinned girls desirable is due to class rather than aesthetic reasons.

262
Guest
262
Offline

Coincidentally timed with a similarly-themed post from Krauser:

http://krauserpua.com/2014/07/30/nomadic-daygaming

SDf
Guest
SDf
Offline

As an older guy I now prefer Dream girl paradise.

Deebos
Guest
Deebos
Offline

Dream girl paradise and as such its quite depressing in America. I’ve turned down 3 women within the last week that initiated with me, all within the 5 or 6 range. They just don’t hold my interest any longer. I specifically target 8’s and above and because I live in America right now, I am a lonely but happy man.

JR
Guest
JR
Offline

Roosh
Lets keep it real being 30s sucks for everyone to some extent.
I think we need to have some discussion on how men. An maximize their fitness and looks. In my 20a I could train 18 rounds of gym work at a boxing gym now I’m like this shit sucks. Time waits for no man and the 19yo blondes look even better now than when I was that age.

TyKo Steamboat
Guest
TyKo Steamboat
Offline

Bullsh*t…Being 30 is awesome if you take proper care of your body & finances. … When you’re 30 you will have the best & widest range of your whole life as you can game women ages 20-40. Furthermore, the average man’s peak sexual prime is ages 25-40 … but if you take care of yourself, eat right & exercise then you can have some solid physical years from 40-55 too.

Ternarydemon
Guest
Ternarydemon
Offline

True. My 54 yr old uncle is dating a 44 yr woman. That is 10 years younger. If he was more red pill, I am sure he could date women in the 36-40 range.

What won’t happen at your 50s is dating “normal” women under 34 (specially in their 20s), unless you are rich and famous, they are very poor and you are a sugar daddy, or they are damaged from daddy issues.

Armchair Observer
Guest
Armchair Observer
Offline

..or they are foreign.

Arirang
Guest
Arirang
Offline

Or you’re particularly accomplished in some niche, it doesn’t really matter what. Think college professor in his 50s.

20th Level
Guest
20th Level
Offline

Agreed. My 30’s were fucking glorious.

Gregg
Guest
Gregg
Offline

Sounds like you read “Torero Travels” Roosh, he breaks down Pussy Paradise in there. Nice post btw.

IP Freely
Guest
IP Freely
Offline

Roosh
Imagine you had it to do over again-
would you go to notch land in Poland and then dream girl land in Russia?

Is the Czech Republic more of a notch count or dream girl kind of place?

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

Czech is stictly for notches (fast sex with Westernized girls), Poland is for notches with a very reduced but possible chance of finding a dream girl, Russia has the highest percentage of dream girls.

I recommend beginners start with notches, just as a way to maintain your pleasure curve. A newbie getting lays will be on top of the world, you only really need this final top-end experience when everything else has been exhausted.

Brown Paper Bag Man
Guest
Brown Paper Bag Man
Offline

I live Czech girls especially the blonde ones. They are in a league of their own. All of the Northern European countries have the best looking girls.

anon
Guest
anon
Offline

I think Czech and Croat chicks have the best Slavic asses.
I dig Czech chicks too, because they are easier to bang and more open to sex with foreigners. Plus they don’t have demands like love, to put out.

DazedButNotConfused
Guest
DazedButNotConfused
Offline

Getting a little worried here Roosh. Your posts have been showing your growing disinterest in sex. Is it a midlife crisis? are you getting tired of game ? Do you want to escape into a secluded area ? Is a storm coming through ? Take a break if you need to bro. I don’t want to see a news story about your rotting body being found after two years in a secluded Siberian cabin. Take it easy man.

P0L1T1CALLY 1NC0RR3CT
Guest
P0L1T1CALLY 1NC0RR3CT
Offline

It makes sense, actually. He’s been doing this for a long time, and if this were a different generation, many of us would be settling down. But unfortunately, our culture is so sick that it’s not realistic to do that.

Queeg
Guest
Queeg
Offline

It’s called he needs to stop cold approaching, get a girlfriend, spend time with her, have a normal relationship, and stop worrying about getting laid by as many women as possible.

Caploxion
Guest
Caploxion
Offline

Your conception of ‘a normal relationship’ is not congruent with reality. If he were to take your advice, his desire for a girlfriend would badly hurt his game, in that he would come across as needy and plagued with oneitis. Both traits are turn-offs for women. Women are attracted to men who have many options in female partners, not ones which are resigned to one.

It is a reality that none of us chose, but in time, have come to accept.

Jones
Guest
Jones
Offline

Normal relationship? [loud guffaw]

This is the new normal.

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

As he mentioned, this is pretty much where all players end.

When you are used to it, sex is not that different from masturbation, physically. Perhaps a little better, no more. It is a grind to get laid, no matter how good you are.

What drives players at first are their demons. People are not supposed to get good at this, you must face emotions that you should not be facing, and you must do so repeatedly. Only the men with demons in the closet succeed. Those with terrible pasts with women will do well, as sex is not just an itch to be scratched, but proof that they are worth more than they once thought.

Once your ego has been satiated, and you can positively say that you “are” the real deal, sex is reduced to the physical sensation, which again isn’t a lot greater than masturbation (after you’ve had a lot of it). Combine that with the amount of work it takes, and you get lethargic.

You start looking for the next thing, for something a bit more transcendental and awesome.

OldManTakeALook
Guest
OldManTakeALook
Offline

excellent analysis. I will not lie, notching up from about 3 to about 23, has mainly been to prove something to myself

and I was driven by demons, 100%

and now I know I “am” the real deal.

unfortunately I am now uncomfortably aware that
my whole society is bullshit
my parents and teachers are liars
any woman I meet can be/is a monstrous, self-centered slut
(deep down)
and I myself am an animal
only a few steps removed from ants, foxes, and stupid cows

we’re all a bunch of stupid apes

at least I know I’m in the top 1% of male apes

awesome.

Capt. Queeg
Guest
Capt. Queeg
Offline

All men, not just “experienced players” should choose dream girl paradise. There are a TON of men who hate themselves more after sleeping with 100 women than they did before.

Are you happy? That’s the metric of success. Not “notches” or anything like that.

anon
Guest
anon
Offline

Disagree. I’ve done the dream paradise thing before when I was younger. Today, I’d however choose the notch+dream paradise thing. The choice between a notch paradise and a dream paradise is similar to being whether being married (dream paradise love LTR), or not being married (notch paradise sexual variety). The recent article on RoK “the marriage paradigm” explains that gist very well.

Being in love is very much similar to being married. The only best part of a ‘love LTR’ is that you don’t have contractual obligations as you’d have in marriage. Yet, the trend of a love relationship is very similar to marriage (monogamy, emotional and resource sharing etc). A sincere man in a love LTR often starts behaving like an unofficial husband. And
most of the time, it means kissing sexual variety goodbye – unless if you can cheat effectively on your ‘girlfriend’.

Poland, Hungary and Czech republic = Notch + Dream paradise.
(These are the best places to find quality women for easier notches. You could still find 7’s and 8’s willing to put out easily)

FSU, Latin America (Argentina, Colombia, Venezuela, Uruguay), Croatia and other parts of Slavic Europe (excluding catholic Slavic Europe) = Dream paradise (For those seeking possible ‘love’ or even marriage)

Notch paradise = Scandinavia, Thailand, Middle East (Israel, Dubai, Lebanon, Bahrain for expat women from Europe, Latin America and Asia) and Iceland. Middle East and Thailand are the best places to garner a variety of high quality expat FSU chicks (a sizable population of FSU women live there), you don’t even have to fall in ‘love’ with them there to experience variety. They just wanna have a good time (sex with no strings attached). But back home in native FSU, these same chicks often want to fall in love and have all that emotional drama of relationship, which can get both annoying, emotionally draining and time consuming later on. Gaming a FSU chick within the FSU and outside of it is a huge huge difference. They’re simply easier when they’re abroad.

Personally, I think no man should slow down in his 30’s or even 40’s in a dream paradise looking for ‘love’ – unless if you’re getting tired of variety or wanting to start a family. So, instead focus on fast sex during those years. Your hormones and body still is in your favor. Use them to bang as many chicks as possible.

If one notices, the hottest chicks in Europe tend to be Slavic. And the easier chicks between Catholic and Orthodox Slavic chicks, tend to be Catholic. So focus on Slavic countries which are Catholic. Magyar Hungary also does well – though you need some networking through social contacts to secure faster and easier lays. After that, it’s often a domino effect there when it comes to getting notches there if you have good to even average game.

The good thing about dream paradise in Europe, i.e. FSU, is that the chicks, even if they’re young, are willing and open to dating older men, sometimes even old enough to be their dads. You’d see guys in their late 40’s and 50’s still getting hotties in their early 20’s. So dream paradise will always remain there, it would never run away even in the future. It’s always going to be there. Head there in your mid 40’s or 50’s. All you must be is the confident and ‘loving’ beta who has good provider potential. Those girls, like all girls, in the end, are looking for a provider. That’s why resourceful men in their 50’s and older still have a chance there with young hotties.

So, till then, bang away to glory with variety in notch + dream paradise while you’re younger in your 20’s and 30’s. In the end, both count: more notches (sexual variety), as well as quality in women (once you hit
30’s when your tastes in women begin to refine). And most importantly, never forget the time factor. How much time is spent in a dream paradise focusing on quality, whereas the same time could be utilized in a notch + dream paradise, banging variety of 7’s or even 8’s? So notch + dream paradise is the best option, atleast in the 20’s and 30’s..Spending too much time in love relationships in a dream paradise during those decades of life will waste away that hornier youth and time. Not to mention it will often end up making one jaded, because :

1. It fucks up game in the long run, as it slows it down once you settle into a ‘relationship’ (high risk of becoming beta there, as energies are often focused on gaming to maintain one chick or two chicks only). Not to mention the usual shitty melodrama often accompanied with ‘love’
which further starts to drain the emotional vitality of a man, as FSU chicks can be subtly demanding in a love relationship, which one realizes much later. At the end of these LTRs, game can also become rusty. So when you start gaming new chicks, the emotional drain from the previous relationship can slow you down and affect your gaming style (unless if you’re really emotionally strong to snap out of it) because you tend to focus on playing the provider beta for a period of six months. Which is bad for your game. Romance and love often makes a man soft, and sometimes
emotionally stupid.

2. It creates sexual frustration. The grass is always green in the FSU. There are tons of hotties in the FSU, so even if you have even 2 or 3 hotties in a harem LTR for six months, you’d always crave for more variety, as it’s very frustrating to see hotties walking left right and centre, and you still can’t approach them because you have to ‘honor’ a relationship. That’s why relationships for a man in 20’s and 30’s in a dream paradise can be frustratingly limiting to a man seeking sexual variety. Regular sex with an 8 for six months in a love drama, or variety of sexual partners who are 7’s or 8’s with no emotional drama. The choice is yours. I’d happily take the second option of variety of banging a new hottie every week.

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

I would agree if for the fact that Poland, Hungary and Czech were actually what you say they are.

I would say that at this point in time it is highly unrealistic to find a dream girl in any of these countries.

anon
Guest
anon
Offline

Dream girl of Poland, Hungary or Czech republic is not for love. These can be dream girls strictly for the looks factor (close to 7 or 8 in looks), depending upon availability.

But again what is that you seek? Love or sex? I’m getting the feeling that you’re actually ‘lovesick’, than ‘sex hungry’. Possibly, are you already in ‘love’?

If you’re lovesick and looking for emotional fulfillment, then FSU could be your paradise. I wouldn’t tell you to leave it, because then notches or sexual variety wouldn’t interest you. But understand the time factor, the emotional investment, and the potential alterations to game (monogamy, beta sharing, loving) as well as your mind because of pursuing a love LTR there. You’d have to kiss sexual variety goodbye, FSU chicks are very possessive and don’t like to share their men. So, can you handle hotties walking around you in the FSU, and suppress the urge for the inner player to be set loose again to enjoy sexual variety? Can you stop yourself from wanting to game your girlfriend’s equally hot or even hotter girlfriends? That’s the problem in the FSU: there are tons of hotties, as the beauty is so high. It’s very difficult to be satisfied with one or even two, for even a period of six months.

The caveat is that at the end of a LTR there, you lose the ability to start gaming women again, because a deep emotional relationship there invariably involves playing the role of a loving provider confident beta. This could affect the ability to game women again for the future, because one would start primarily gaming women for relationships later, instead for quick sex. I’ve done the dream paradise LTR thing before, so I know. It takes time to shed that ‘provider’ role mindset at the end of a LTR. But this shouldn’t affect you; unless if you fall hard and deep in ‘love’ there. Then a breakup could really affect you.

The irony is that FSU chicks are easier in the places I mentioned. If you’d ever head there, you’d realise that easier notches and sexual variety with expat FSU women (without emotional investment) can be achieved in those places, than when they’re back home.

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

I think you missed the point of the article.

After being a player for so long, sexual variety loses importance. You speak of emotional investment as some type of plague to be avoided. This is exactly what older players “want”. They don’t wish to avoid it. With the right girl it is even “better” than sex. There is a risk of pain, but nothing good comes free.

On a side note, a dream girl doesn’t necessarily have to be 8+ (though most are). Assuming average personality, the oonly difference between a 6 and a 9 is ego (there is a feeling of accomplishment that quickly wears off).

This has to do with the health of your ego. By the time you are looking into this you have enough sex and a couple of 9s that have exhausted the feelings of accomplishment and maximixed your entitlement.

There are no more medals to achieve or things to prove. Now it is about intensity of emotion, which neither sex nor ego-feeding can provide.

anon
Guest
anon
Offline

What is an ‘older’ player?
A player in his 30’s? or 40s? or 50s?
I think game never becomes old , neither does it ever stop.
I’m in my 30’s – close to mid 30’s. I feel the need for more sexual variety than ever. I’ve had women who’ve asked for ‘relationships’. The women are also not bad either. But I couldn’t care less. I’ve done the dream paradise thing in my 20’s – so I know better. It’s like the reverse progression of a player. Players want to settle down in a love. I’ve done the love thing before, and that too an extraordinarily beautiful FSU woman before (we were both in our 20’s.

I don’t desire sexual variety to validate my ego. Nor do I desire that because new notches are medals to achieve. I desire sexual variety because I WANT sexual variety. I NEED sexual variety. I get bored kissing, and penetrating the same woman over a period of time. It’s ridiculous for me. But I don’t prescribe my lifestyle to other men. Neither would I ever believe that a LTR lifestyle is the correct lifestyle. To each man, his own. One man’s tool is another man’s weapon.

But the undisputed fact is that no single woman can ever complete a man. In the end, one would always feel incomplete- if not sooner, then definitely later.
The feeling of completion only comes with a new notch, even though it may last for a short period. That’s why polygamy is so important for a man’s emotional health and growth.

In a harem of multiple women, the feeling of completion stays for a longer period, because you don’t get jaded fucking one woman over a period of time. And I think as the older I get, the more sexual variety I will desire, with younger and fresher models. When I was blue pill when I was younger, I used to hate players and older men who used to rotate younger women for sex. I was so wrong, because I was emotional (in love) etc. But now, I realize why. It’s just the way they are. They can’t be happy with a single woman ever, just like how I am.

My ego is healthy, because I don’t need women to validate it. But I desire women because it is a natural thing for a man to want to have sex with them. I think monogamy is unnatural. ‘Love’ often leads to that.

anon
Guest
anon
Offline

“After being a player for so long, sexual variety loses importance.”
Not for all men.
Hugh Hefner, Larry Ellison, Rocco Siffreddi.
3 men who come to mind who are still chasing pussy variety. Some men are just wired differently.

“You speak of emotional investment as some type of plague to be avoided.”
No. I did not say to avoid it – I rather said it is better to postpone emotional investment in a woman in a man’s 40’s or 50’s, when actually on average most men physically start to slow down. Most players actually seek that during those decades, not in the 30’s. But again, to every man his own.

“With the right girl it is even “better” than sex.”
– This usually happens in case of sexual dysfunction within a relationship, low sex drive, or a relationship in the senior years where the emphasis is more on companionship than sex within a relationship. But I’m not saying that this is not possible, or such a relationship is substandard. If it works for you, then great.

Personally, sex is not an ‘accomplishment’ for me. I don’t high five myself if I get laid or not. At the most, it inspires me even further to pursue newer women. For me, sex is a pleasure and a healthy physical need which needs to be fulfilled on a regular basis, just like eating or drinking. I have sex to feel physically satisfied (and sometimes exhilarated with great sex). I get bored eating the same food daily, and the same thing applies to women. Every woman is different, so every woman must be tasted. But eating her so long gets boring. That’s all.

DeCode
Guest
DeCode
Offline

I don’t know. If I was in any country outside of FSU, the last thing I’d be going out of my to sample is FSU women. But then again I don’t find white women particularly attractive no matter where they are from.

Second: you seem to ignore that for the vast majority of men, a LTR is all they are looking for in the first place. Most would be more than happy in Dream paradise – even with the annoyances of the typical lovey dovey BS that woman bring with it.

anon
Guest
anon
Offline

“If
I was in any country outside of FSU, the last thing I’d be going out of my to
sample is FSU women.”

– If you haven’t sampled FSU women, I must say you haven’t experienced what womanhood could be in your
life. You don’t know what experience you’re missing out on. FSU women are some
of the finest specimens of beauty and femininity (some are the best when it
comes to sheer physical beauty) among God’s creation. (Though for sexual
ability, I’d rate Hungarian, Czech and Polish women slightly higher than them).

“you seem to ignore that for the vast majority of men, a LTR is all they
are looking for in the first place. Most would be more than happy in Dream
paradise – even with the annoyances of the typical lovey dovey BS that woman
bring with it.”

– I didn’t ignore that as well. I only mentioned to postpone LTRs in a dream
paradise to the more mature 40’s and 50’s, when men are usually emotionally more hardened, which happens
naturally with age – to be better emotionally equipped to handle the potential
knocks which could come in LTRs.

http://www.returnofkings.com/3069/american-women-simply-cant-compete

Dream paradise is thus and thankfully available at all ages for a resourceful man. That’s the best part about it.
So till then, notch paradise is logically a better option. But again, to each, his own.

Roosh_V
Guest
Roosh_V
Offline

Women commenter spotted. I don’t know a single man over 100+ that “hates himself.”

310 Player
Guest
310 Player
Offline

A 6 is not bad talent- just average white girl.

Call it what you will but as a player ages t-levels drop (someone correct me and outline a path to a better way if this is not so) and it takes more talent to stimulate ones interest.

I think a chicks vibe and how you relate to it is imperative. I’ve seen plain looking girls I wanted to smash and ring card girls who many dudes went crazy over I thought were horse faced or too ethnic looking for my tastes.

ATC
Guest
ATC
Offline

This paid-up forum member and owner of 3 Roosh Bang guides votes #TeamNotch.

I have seen wonderful Dream Girl enclaves ruined by the march of social media attention whoring.

So notch it is, then.

Rubio Sol Oscuro
Guest
Rubio Sol Oscuro
Offline

To get both, no matter where you are, YOU have to bring the requisite value to the table, and then have the discernment to use it wisely. Not an easy task….

Dr. Jeremy
Guest
Dr. Jeremy
Offline

Roosh,

I think the phenomenon you are describing might be an effect of Diminishing Marginal Utility. Essentially, sex with each new average woman is less thrilling than the last. It is the same as eating a dozen cheeseburgers… The first may taste great, but by the time you cram in the last one, it might not be as appealing.

That is why men who get burned out collecting average notches may gravitate toward longer relationships with higher value women. Similarly, men who are sick of wolfing down burgers might switch to savor eating a nice steak.

Of course, this trade-off has pros and cons. A man needs more value (and game) to get a high value woman (just like a steak costs more than a burger). Once he gets her, however, it may take less effort to keep her than get a new notch (just like a steak can be savored longer…and provide more nutritional value for the money). In fact, some high value women who stick around might even provide additional help beyond sexual gratification. Not to mention the guy might get greater satisfaction/utility AND have more time and energy for other things.

These are essentially the same thoughts I shared almost two years ago in a different context, which you posted in Life Advice from The Doctor on ROK.

“Like learning any “game”, this does initially take more work (although
the new challenge can be fun too). Over time, however, having a steady
relationship (or several) can help a man meet his sexual needs with less
effort than finding a new ONS whenever he has an itch to scratch. This
can free a guy up from diminishing returns and allow more time for
success in other areas of life.”

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

The problem isn’t your level of game per-se (although you must have it), but luck.

The trouble is in “finding” the girl rather than getting her. You have no idea how extraordinarily rare they are.

U S. Open Sores
Guest
U S. Open Sores
Offline

“The trouble is in “finding” the girl rather than getting her. You have no idea how extraordinarily rare they are.”

^^^^^^ THIS.

OldManTakeALook
Guest
OldManTakeALook
Offline

It all depends on their friends
If you have ANY misgivings about ANY of her friends
Guy or girl
but especially girl
she has slutty friends
she has friends who shop all the time
she has spoiled rich friends
she has friends who only interest is travel
she has friends who are groupies

then get OUT or remove your heart from it.

It’s NOT your fault when she does what her friends tell her and slut it up.

There’s nothing a single man can do to stem the tide when sluts are in agreement
you can’t control it or you lose
you can’t put up with it, or you lose
you can’t change her, you will lose

There is basically NOTHING you can do about it

I have come to the conclusion
best to find isolated girls without friends
and keep her dependent.

U S. Open Sores
Guest
U S. Open Sores
Offline

“Of course, this trade-off has pros and cons. A man needs more value (and game) to get a high value woman”

Too bad high value women don’t exist anymore.

Dawson Stone
Guest

That might be true except there are a cornucopia of different types of women. No need to have the same cheeseburger day after day.

And no way a guy in a steady relationship over a year or two has anywhere near as much sex as a high value single guy and the relationship guy has to make huge compromises to get less sex. It’s a horrible value proposition for a high value man IMO.

Dr. Jeremy
Guest
Dr. Jeremy
Offline

Who said a steady relationship had to be monogamous? Spin more than one, keep a “harem”…or have threesomes with a primary gf. Either way, a high value guy can still have excellent variety, expend less effort, and make very few compromises. The competition and social proof will also keep sex more frequent than either a monogamous situation…or if he had to hunt for a new partner each time

Dawson Stone
Guest

Fair point. I assumed (incorrectly) that you were speaking of a more traditional relationship.

WIth online dating the hunting isn’t that time consuming but I do take your point.

In my experience maintaining an open relationship comes with drama (maybe not at first) that makes it hard to maintain although I will grant you that there are probably a few outlier exceptions.

Dr. Jeremy
Guest
Dr. Jeremy
Offline

I agree, much like learning any other style of game, there is a “learning curve”. Just as guys can streamline initial awkward openers into eventual same-day sex, it is also possible to streamline relationship drama management into guidelines and boundaries that promote harmonious inter-relating among multiple partners.

Certainly, that is not for everyone. It doesn’t appeal to some and is beyond the current skill set of others. But, given Roosh’s long history with game and his interest in figuring out social dynamics, I keep reminding him of the possibility. Especially when he seems to sound burnt out by the “same old game”. I would imagine it might be even easier in some foreign countries. I will let the more well-traveled guys on here debate that idea though.

U S. Open Sores
Guest
U S. Open Sores
Offline

“If your notches aren’t giving you happiness like in the past, you have to up your quality, which will reduce your quantity. If sleeping with highly beautiful women isn’t doing it for you either, then you need other hobbies that aren’t centered on women. A piece of advice I’m reluctant to give you is not to bang too many women or even be too good with them, because then you just might get bored of them completely. Then your preferred paradise may be a little cabin in the woods.”

I think this is the natural evolution of things for men. As been said already: “Women are like beer; every man gets his fill then goes home and throws up.”

A cabin in the woods, with a loyal little four legged mutt and perhaps a fishing hole nearby seems like a good paradise to me.

I say this knowing that the cabin option could come sooner for me and many men realizing that all the energy, work and hassles involved in acquiring female companionship (be it notch paradise or dream girl) hits critical mass much sooner due to societies world wide in decline. Thanks to the Global Village – internet – smartphones and related technology the cabin option is looking more inviting earlier for men today then for men of previous generations.

Jones
Guest
Jones
Offline

Worked for Thoreau, works for me.

The “cabin” is a metaphor, however — my preferred “cabin” consists of a decent hotel room with efficient, but not complete room service.

There’s one risk that hasn’t been addressed: you could easily turn into a Howard Hughes if your every whim were within the realm of fast delivery.

“I’ll take a blonde … no, two; one may simply bore me with her shit, but it’ll be entertaining for the other to watch.”

smile

OldManTakeALook
Guest
OldManTakeALook
Offline

oh my god that sounds so amazing
reminds me of how great men often agree:
life really gets going when your dick stops making the decisions
when hormones wane and you hit mid-life
you can ignore stupid poosy or at least be more rational
and get down to the 99% of life that actually is enjoyable

business proposition: men-only cabin communities near national parks
specifically marketed as “escape stupid american sloots”
we have:
-guns
-beer/homebrew
-gambling
-motorcycles
-mountain-climbing

sign up for a week, a month, or a year
discounts apply when paid in advance

see you there

hui
Guest
SpecialEd
Guest
SpecialEd
Offline

Roosh,

How does it feel….

to have a life revolved around chasing pussy and only get laid once every 6 months?!!!!

That’s brutal man. I’d be like suicidal. Pretty sure your average monk in a monastery gets more pussy than that lol.

Patrick C Patrick
Guest
Patrick C Patrick
Offline

thes post only seem to be about getting laid arent there other factors in picking a place to travel to or live

Tom Dane
Guest
Tom Dane
Offline

I know this is beta but I prefer dream girl paradise any time. Notches just get boring after a while.

Tom Dane
Guest
Tom Dane
Offline

Btw, I dont understand why you mention Scandinavia as a notch paradise. It’s not, esp compared to SE Asia. Even in your book you claim that Denmark is defo worse that DC, and I doubt DC is a notch paradise.

Sd
Guest
Sd
Offline

Russia is dream girl paradise and requires fluency in the difficult Russian language. Thailand and the DR are notch paradise.