The Elephant In The Room

There’s an elephant in the manosphere room. Men are nervous to talk about it for fear of being labeled a beta male, and even I’ve avoided the topic for years simply because I don’t fully understand it in a logical manner.

The elephant is pointing out that love exists. You can call it a neurochemical response that is like eating chocolate if you wish, but during your lifetime, you will certainly feel an intense connection with at least one girl that supersedes anything you have felt with other girls, and it will affect your judgement and behavior. For too long, those in the game and red pill spheres have not only been love denialists but love shamers, training men through repetition to not develop emotional attachments with any woman. I know this because I’m one of them.

There are several components of good game practice that make love less likely to develop. I’ve taught men to…

If you want to sleep with a lot of women, adopting these four teachings will surely aid you, as it has helped me over the past 15 years to rack up many notches around the world, but they are opposed to the formation of deeper long-term connections. Not only do they actively prohibit them, but they will make a man feel ashamed and weak when he experiences them since they go against the stereotypical alpha male template, which can be best described as either a T-1000 Terminator or Stifler from American Pie, depending on who you ask.

By stating the existence of love, I’m not at all urging you to bend over backwards for the next girl you meet, make sacrifices that she doesn’t, and take abuse from her, but on a game journey that will include meeting hundreds of women, you will develop strong feelings for at least one, and it does not serve you to ignore those feelings and be an emotionless robot instead. The current game literature has practically no advice for men who do develop these feelings, and I have no doubt that many have lost a potential long-term love bond because of that.

I don’t yet have clear advice for you, but I can tell you that becoming proficient with game does allow you to recognize whether the attraction you have for women is merely sexual or something more. You become a better judge of the woman who may be deserving of your love from the sacrifices, effort, and affection she puts into the relationship. We must have a firm understanding of how to show normal human emotion that can take our relationships to the next level while not being so needy or available that the chemistry and attraction is lost. This balance may take us a lifetime to figure out.

Beware of the love denialists in the manosphere. They are posturing for your approval so you look up to their toughness and hold them up to be a playboy or guru, but any man without a legitimate sociopath diagnosis will feel an intense bond with 1-3 women in his life. The trick is having enough experience with women so you can recognize it for what it is while enjoying that relationship on your terms for as long as it lasts.

Sleeping with a variety of women is not only pleasurable from a sexual standpoint, but also to develop the knowledge to enjoy a strong bond with a woman who develops love for you, especially if she rejects degenerate Western culture in similar ways that you do. I’m thankful to have had such a bond twice in my life, and hope that other men can enjoy that as well.

Read Next: Warning Signs A Girl Isn’t Worth A Relationship

Related Posts For You

newest oldest most voted
Tom Dane
Guest
Tom Dane
Offline

Well written and I agree. There’s a lot of wanna be charlie sheens on this site and it’s not what it’s all about.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

Agreed. Still, enduring love by women for men is still describing a minority of women as western socialisation (aka marxist feminism) has beaten the love women had for men out, so these women aren’t coming back from the dark place and we have to resocialise and start with a whole new generation of girls.

elutimohombre
Guest
elutimohombre
Offline

Someone said that “love” was invented by Russians in order to to get free pussy at the time.
No doubt that something exists , which in most simple terms can be defined for example by: Physical attraction + friendship (the one that can exist between man and women) + readiness to to be in that sate.
Does not happen often in the life of man , but when it is “real” it is one of the best thing that may happen to you.
And you are alpha if you are not afraid to go there despite the fact that you know it will end and probably will be ugly type of ending.
Just do not try ‘to find yourself” in that women , you can do number of things with that women you find , but she will never be what you are , nor be able to see and fully understand things you do .
So be aware of limitations ,jump and enjoy the fall.

ElHombre
Guest
ElHombre
Offline

“Love is a serious mental illness” – Plato

Joe Shanley
Guest
Joe Shanley
Offline
Richelieu
Guest
Richelieu
Offline

Hey I love my mom !

Femghazi
Guest
Femghazi
Offline

Lol, two more to go!

Tom Dane
Guest
Tom Dane
Offline

Well I can tell you from experience when you experience “love” there’s not much you can do, you WILL turn beta. It’s like swimming against a tidal wave, nature is simply too strong to fight.

Durandel Almiras
Guest
Durandel Almiras
Offline

Beta traits do come out more when in love, but you actively and consciously temper those traits by recognizing it and then employing alpha traits to keep it going (and women love the drama of it). It’s not a forgone conclusion, and frankly, I find this process makes the relationship more fun Dare I say it, I think I’m starting to give a shit.

Davis M.J. Aurini
Guest

A man is to be his wife’s spiritual lead; part of that duty is correcting her behaviour when she’s being immoral – unfairly comparing you to other men or needlessly fitness testing. Hold fast to your duty, the same way you hold fast to a child’s punishments. That’s one way to fight off the beta when you’re hopeless for her.

Najat
Guest
Najat
Offline

It damage the childs brain if you hit and yell at them or if they experience it In their home.

Elmer T. Jones
Guest

I cringe with memories of utter beta moves while afflicted with this condition.

My significant other did not respond well to my pathetic displays either.

guest
Guest
guest
Offline

I miss your comments. They used to appear after every article, now only in a blue moon…oh yes, entirely agree with your assertion here; but it can be a reminder of what not to do in the future.

Elmer T. Jones
Guest

Thanks. I got banned from RoK for posting outlandish graphics.

You may be interested in my new writing tools blog employmentgame at wordpress. Later this week I will be offering a free download of my recently published book on Amazon in an effort to simulate product reviews.

Rust Cohle
Guest
Rust Cohle
Offline

Elmer and Mistral were always my favorites but they never seem to post anymore, now we’re stuck with GhostOfJefferson.

Elmer T. Jones
Guest

Thanks Rust. Inside every troll is an award-winning writer.

Thanks to guys like Roosh I decided to take a swing at publishing a book and starting a blog. Trying to find a balance with it as working for Encorpera may still be my best option. I just can’t do the social media thing that seems required for ebook marketing.

StochasticFats
Guest
StochasticFats
Offline

Thanks pal. I’ve turned into a great dancer based on some of your advice a while back on ROK. Helped improve my dating options.

Elmer T. Jones
Guest

That’s great. When I was in the throes of my dance fever I would enjoy seeing a young man I recruited to come to dance class become an enthusiast. It really opens the floodgates of dating opportunities.

KermitTheeFrog
Guest
KermitTheeFrog
Offline

Can’t find your blog, please post link.

Elmer T. Jones
Guest

employmentgame.wordpress.com

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

I don’t know about that. I am in love right now and while I am willing to make certain. . .compromises, overall my affections drive me to assert more control over her rather than simply give in. That being said, I have no problem with opening my wallet to have a good time with a quality woman. I don’t think that makes me beta.

Shortest Straw
Guest
Shortest Straw
Offline

You can be in love and remain a strong man. Female nirvana is not having a beta simp, nor is it getting pumped and dumped by an alpha bad boy. It is having both in one person. I have done it and the results were magical. The devotion she will reciprocate with is unreal.

Joe Shanley
Guest
Joe Shanley
Offline

Well said.

Wes
Guest
Wes
Offline

Exactly. Well said

Shortest Straw
Guest
Shortest Straw
Offline

Thanks for the kudos, both of you guys. Best wishes to you both.

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

And that is the challenge for a guy: to provide like a beta but lead like an alpha.

Devin Handy
Guest
Devin Handy
Offline

Women need to be controlled with firm kindness and stern mindfulness, and they know it. Many of them have traded their soul for the security of the state…and they know it. I encounter Menonite women at a local WalMart…and swoon every time. They do not wear makeup and are obviously quality.

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

In my youth I was partying at Christmas time. Among my fellow partiers was a Mormon girl. The rest were getting liquored up on spirits or beer or champagne but she drank milk. She would dip her finger in her glass and then rub it around my ear. My girlfriend did not appreciate the gesture.

Kitten Holiday
Guest

That’s part of why it’s important to find a woman who will lift you up. Rare these days as many women try to put down their partner. A man who is a leader puts the interests of his “pack” ahead of himself. This is honorable and noble. But a strong pack will not “bite the hand that feeds them.” That is the difference, and that is what has happened too often these days, the pack revolts, attacks the leader when he sleeps, then later suffers. Pick your partner wisely and thrive.

ActionJackson23
Guest
ActionJackson23
Offline

” … a woman’s love for a man will never be equal to a man’s love for a woman. The natural order and a woman’s hypergamous nature dictate that the man must be on a ‘higher level’ than the woman. A man can love a woman just as a woman can love a child, but the reciprocal love is returned only in the form of honour and respect. Just as a child instinctively expects its parents to take care of them, so does a woman instinctively expect her man to take care of her. It is a one-way street. A woman will never be able to equally return a man’s love for her. At best, she can honour and respect him for what he does for her.

“In fact, in the form of romantic love, you will find that women are not so much in love with the man as an individual person, but rather they are in love with the relationship. The man is merely a role-player and is easily replaced by another taking on the role. If any man expects to be an ‘equal partner’ with his wife, he will soon find his woman disrespecting him and seeking out a man who is decidedly not her equal to lead her.

“You cannot expect a woman to be your true confidant, your soul-mate, and your respite to lean upon during the stormy times in life. That is your role for her benefit. It does not work in reverse, for as soon as you believe it can work that way, she will lose confidence in your ability to lead her and begin to resent you. She will go about illustrating her resentment by making your life as miserable as she possibly can. This may be one of the hardest lessons for a man to learn in life because it turns the whole notion of modern love as an equal give-and-take relationship upon its ear. The implications can be rather depressing, as it means that on a certain level a man will always be alone. A parent who expects their child to also be their equal friend to lean upon for support, will also find himself sorely disappointed with the results. The child instinctively expects the parents to be superior and to cater to his needs. Expecting the reverse will only result in a resentful child and a heartbroken parent. The same order must be maintained between a man and a woman, lest she become resentful and seek out a man who actually will lead her. “

Vegard Johansen
Guest
Vegard Johansen
Offline

I don`t know. How can you love someone that you cannot trust?
Modern women are not trustworthy, and will stab you in the back eventually.
At least that is what the statistics seem to suggest. (divorce etc.)
Maybe it`s better to reserve your love for friends and close family.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

Love in the traditional sense meant the woman would have your back a little more often, cook for you, bear your children (without being a prior slut), not criticise you too much etc…

These days, sadly, most women are just a warm hole. And most men don’t expect much more from their women either. Both are to blame and it will inevitable end badly..

Vegard Johansen
Guest
Vegard Johansen
Offline

Agreed,
My mother made my dad breakfast in bed EVERY DAY
the first 2 years they were married. Imagine that today.

Richelieu
Guest
Richelieu
Offline

your dad would be arrested.

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

I seem to have locked down a Chinese girl (I live in China) who has traditional notions and is someone who I can trust.
.
However, in all seriousness, if I was back in North America and single, it would be BDSM all the way.
.
You don’t need so much trust when you have an established practice that she wears a collar and performs to your satisfaction every night and in every way.
.
At the first sign of a crack in her veneer of loyalty you give her two choices: take a traditional beating to correct her attitude, or pound sand.
.
Matt Forney completely lampooned this idea with his bogus “Christian Discipline” blog but there is something to it, certainly a superior paradigm to banging sluts and dodging divorce rape.

Shortest Straw
Guest
Shortest Straw
Offline

Study BDSM (I recommend The Loving Dominant) and pimp game. In there you will find the balance you are looking for.

Bavieca
Guest
Bavieca
Offline

“Maybe it`s better to reserve your love for friends and close family.”

And dogs, for they are man’s best friend after all.

Tom Dane
Guest
Tom Dane
Offline

Who’s that ? Sound like some old school red pill stuff.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

Women in the current society are socially engineered by incentives. Remove the engineering and incentives and they will revert to supporting their menfolk, as opposed to their current destructive carefree ways.

yaintshit
Guest
yaintshit
Offline

drop the mic

Najat
Guest
Najat
Offline

I love my husband and he loves me, he is my first and only, i would Never disrespect or cheat on him and he would Never disrespect or cheat on me. I want to make him happy and he wants to make me happy. I dont want him to control me or ask him for permission on things, the relationship between a man and woman should not be on dominance and control but on love, confidence, trust, Care.

Durandel Almiras
Guest
Durandel Almiras
Offline

Good post Roosh. I’m about the same age and while I didn’t travel the world collecting flags, I did spend my 20’s and early 30’s collecting as many notches as I could and only recently have I tried to have a long term relationship (leaving atheism behind and embracing Eastern Rite Catholicism had some of an impact in this along with thinking about the future and a change in my mind about having kids). In my experience, definitely find a woman who rejects the degenerate Western culture. They are the only ones worth your time. Stick to a large age gap (my girl is 14 years younger) as it helps with the relationship dynamic of you being the leader. She has to want you and she has to be a pleaser….again, only women worth giving your time to. And finally, this is the hardest one, you have to fight the urge to keep doing the chase. This is the hardest part for me and I’m struggling. I have a solid woman now and she checks all the points on being and good lover, wife and mother…but I have a bunch of other hot young plates nearby that could be the same and maybe better in one of those jobs than her. It’s really difficult to not spin all the plates, to not do the behaviors you did when banging was the only game you were playing. If you figure out how to change this habit, how to adapt and actually enjoy someone who is good, please write about it.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

I agree with the age gap; or at least the girl being aged 16 (legal in the UK) to 22 when you first get together. I think after that, most women are destroyed for long term relationships minus a very small minority (mormon virgins etc?). Also, there are some girls where you can push the boundary up to 23/24.. However, sadly, most western women are destroyed for relationships, especially for religious-minded men; and most western men aren’t much better, for they get used to the current carousel playground set-up and thus cannot revert to thinking any differently about dating as most women and men in the early twenties become set in their ways.

On a related note, if western society collapsed tomorrow, most people would not be able to fit into a new society as their dating behaviours and the like would have to be much more conservative and completely different. They only exist in the current form due to a falsified economy and fiat toilet paper money, both of which are to end within the next few years.

OrthodoxChristian
Guest
OrthodoxChristian
Offline

“leaving atheism behind and embracing Eastern Rite Catholicism had some of an impact in this along with thinking about the future and a change in my mind about having kids”

Eastern Rite Catholicism, when crusades and inquisitions aren’t enough, see how many you can lure into churches with all the exterior trappings of Orthodoxy.

Zelcorpion
Guest
Zelcorpion
Offline

Of course love exists – the 4 rules of attraction help you in the beginning to get laid with women, but even the coldest bitches want a man to be warm, loving and kind as well when they are interested in something longer.

The best way to find that kind of love is to fill yourself with it. Meditation and contemplation helps and treating animals and our loved ones with great love. If you project a feeling, then it returns and you meet women (and friendly men of non-sexual nature) who want to return that love to you. Thus finding a loving girlfriend or wife is no problem for a man who can balance strong masculine sides with a loving heart.

StochasticFats
Guest
StochasticFats
Offline

Well said mate.

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

Roissy quotes:

“A man can be all alpha but if he doesn’t cash it in for the ultimate prize he’s revealed the beta at his core.”

“Love is easily missed, carelessly denied, fleetingly intense, nakedly vulnerable… and for all these reasons it is more precious than anything else in this world.”

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

For our current era where women have been socialised largely by feminist ideology, I would have to say their conception of love is destructive if not nonexistent and there is no point trying to save them. They will have to be destroyed by our ‘elite’s’ machinations before they get broke and sickly, being therefore chastised and open to new ways of thinking and behaving. Sadly, this is further fuel to the fire of the inevitable fall of the west.

Morrison
Guest
Morrison
Offline

Well said, good sir.

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

A real pairbond is instant. Both the man and the woman will get attached to each other quickly. Often it doesn’t take more than a single date to create a strong bond. If a man or a woman requires a long period of time to fall in love, it is not genuine love, rather a low-level affection at most. When women talk about love, often it has nothing to do with what is being described in this post. Real love is something that a woman will cherish and miss forever, she will never get over it. Like the woman who kept her love letters for 60 years. The man will likely never get over it either, and deep down his strongest desire will always be to live this experience again. Fucking around is nothing but a mere substitute in the abscence of what the man truly desires in his soul. As Schopenhauer said: “true love is as common, or as rare, as two people being a perfect genetic fit for optimum offspring”. In these cases, biology will do everything for you. The bond is so strong that there is practically nothing you have to do to keep it alive, it is fuckup avoidance game at most.

The toughest situation is if this happens with a girl who is a slut. The biological principles are the same, and just like a 100+ player here describes his intense bonds with two girls, even a slut will fall deeply in love with you if the pairbond was biologically intended. The problem in this case would be balancing the intensity of emotion with the natural feelings of jealousy that arise from a girl’s past or, more likely, her present, given that these interactions would almost certainly happen without commitment.

spicynujac
Guest
spicynujac
Offline

Schopenhauer seems obsessed with ideal procreation. His view on homosexuality was that at least it didn’t result in bastard children the way other sexual deviancy did. And now the best marriage partner is the one that is the perfect genetic fit for you.

It’s hard enough finding a girl who is attractive, feminine, not a slut, and young as a potential life partner. Now I’m supposed to be looking for the perfect genetic fit as well?

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

The perfect genetic fit is the one that will instill feelings of love. All other logical considerations go out the window. She may very likely even be a terrible logical choice for a wife. But biology doesn’t understand logical concerns. Most relationships don’t occur under conditions of true love, remember that.

hv
Guest
hv
Offline

“The perfect genetic fit is the one that will instill feelings of love.”

I’m not sure that strong biological attraction that you describe is “love.” I would say it’s more like lust.. strong physical attraction.. biological chemistry.. etc.. That can certainly lead to real love later on but love isn’t just about being a perfect “genetic fit.” If you think that’s what love is, you have no idea what real love is. It’s about being bonded to someone deeply… that you put their needs over yours.

Anon.
Guest
Anon.
Offline

Judging by how you speak of it, you obviously haven’t experienced what Roosh is talking about.

There is no lust involved. Although mixed with sex, the feeling itself has nothing to do with sex. It could very well exist without sex at all. It has jack-shit to do with how much she “turns you on”.

jz95
Guest
jz95
Offline

Roosh, loving the new turn your writing is taking. I’m not sure if I agree with you that sleeping with hundreds of women is going to make things better, but I definitely like the direction you’re taking. Looking forward to future posts.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

I like what he has written but does it make any difference to our social set-up now we are approaching the end of this society? I don;t think enough women could internalise loving men after feminism to make a difference to the catastrophe that is coming up in the next few years (economics, wars etc..).

Jones
Guest
Jones
Offline

I’ve been arguing for this direction for a long time; I’m glad the manosphere is going there.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

The only problem is, that in the few relationships where love really does exist, the people involved are zombie-slave-consumers with zero potential for being the future of the human race in this rapidly degrading society. Love is fleeting for most (and therefore is not socially useful as it doesn’t last in relationships) and for those couples it endures in, these couples are ultimately the kinds of people who are ‘good slaves’, that is their personalities. When the western model of society disappears, they will also disappear as they cannot exist outside such an artificially imposed social structure.

Tom
Guest
Tom
Offline

It happened to this guy in Brazil and Ukraine. He found girls that were the epitome of female value, not only in looks but in behaviour. It also only happened twice in 15 years of gaming, meaning a target pool of tens of thousands and rates that are comparable to winning the lottery.

This is not a concern for Western men. It simply won’t happen to you. If you have are gaming 5 years in some Russian province perhaps, but in a big American city you won’t ever find a girl that causes this kind of reaction.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

Sadly, it is true that for each man, a girl like this is rare (unless that man has low standards or is very generic). You just won’t meet a girl who ticks ALL of your boxes, there will be some level of compromise (which is okay). The only problems these days are that the social environment does not favour long term relationships (even for alpha men whose lovers cheat on them) due to socialisation and welfare programs; also, the men have become less authoritative in society and relationships; finally, the quality of women has gone down in both looks and morals/behaviour. Let us not forget the baby boomers who are hocking all the resources and bequeathed us a barely functional society where we get constant wars, theft and mass unregulated immigration where most of the migrants are male and taking whatever jobs are left and sending the money away from the western countries where we need it (although the whole economic system is sickening).

For our generation, if we are lucky, our requirements will be getting enough to eat, a place we can afford to sleep in that is relatively safe; and dying early enough that we do not suffer many years before kicking the bucket. Social inequality and manipulated economies do that to people.

Jones
Guest
Jones
Offline

Haha. I never get tired of reading pithy summaries of why our society is degenerate . . . baby boomers especially need to get called out more for being the first generation in American history to leave the country worse than they found it.

Jones
Guest
Jones
Offline

Although I don’t blame immigration, I think that’s a sideshow. People need something easy to blame for their troubles.

Amy Wilson
Guest
Amy Wilson
Offline

Yes, a target pool of thousands of party girls. Go hunting in bars, of course you will mostly meet sluts.

armenia4ever
Guest

As the old folks would say, “You can’t find a wife in a brothel.”

hv
Guest
hv
Offline

Well thanks to feminism and sexual liberalism, most women today are sluts.. The idea that it’s just women in bars who are sluts is hopelessly outdated in today’s Tinder world. Women don’t need to go to bars now to slut it up. They’re doing it every day on Tinder and through online dating. We’re not talking about dumb, slutty party girls.. but your average professional, educated Western woman.

Whores, all whores.

Amy Wilson
Guest
Amy Wilson
Offline

I think you are misunderstanding me. I didn’t say that only party girls are sluts. I said party girls are mostly (hey, maybe even all!) sluts.

Jones
Guest
Jones
Offline

Literally every Western woman is a whore. If a Western man wants to find a chaste woman, he has to choose from a sample size of zero. Chastity is a historical concept.

Howard Roark
Guest
Howard Roark
Offline

” but any man without a legitimate sociopath diagnosis will feel an intense bond with 1-3 women in his life.”

Woah easy with the Ad-hom’s. Without any citations or sources this is just a baseless projection.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

Yes. Also, just because he meets such women does not mean that he is in a position to date them or vice versa; he may have other things going on at the same time that prevent him from being able to start up a relationship with his ‘soul-mate’ at the time that they meet and then they have to go their separate ways.

On a different note, Marriage/long-term relationships of the past were based upon amenable women not corrupted by feminism and male counterparts who likewise had not undergone social corruption. The kinds of people that experience intense and enduring pair bonding these days are the best kinds of slaves that keep our economy hobbling along and the staged conflicts going – basically, they couldn’t exist in a ‘real’ society and the purpose of such couplings is to be selfish in maximising personal happiness over actually trying to make the world a better place by fighting corruption. They only exist as a slave-class due to social engineering etc.. They’re already happy so there’s no need to change the world; and not only that, the vast majority of society including such couples are half-retards who are dragging us all down into the gutter. They’re basically not going to be alive 10-15 years in the future.

KansasBred78
Guest
KansasBred78
Offline

Yeah, but you know what? Women don’t “love” you no matter what. Everything they say regarding “loving” the men they are intimate with is subconsciously a manipulation and fraud on their part; it doesn’t matter whether they overtly realize this or not (hint: they do not and cannot). So, feel free to fall for that “special” girl, few men are immune to this, but realize that her “love” for you is shallow, conditional and vastly inferior to what you feel for her.

spicynujac
Guest
spicynujac
Offline

Someone here recently said one must append “at this moment I feel like…” to anything a woman says. So if she says I love you, she really means “At this moment I feel like I love you.” They don’t have the ability to truly, deeply love a man for decades, or to even understand what commitment means outside of right now. In the past religion and social norms taught them they must do this, but today I’m not sure it’s possible.

So, feel free to fall for that “special” girl, few men are immune to this, but realize that her “love” for you is shallow, conditional and vastly inferior to what you feel for her.

While many of us have been with girls who clearly liked us a whole lot more than we liked them, can anyone truly say they were in a loving relationship where the woman “loved” more than the man?

yaintshit
Guest
yaintshit
Offline

my gf of 2 yrs and i broke up recently. and goddammit, THIS x1000.

i dont plan on speaking with her again but i’ll love her forever. its in a man’s nature to do so once he’s deemed a girl worthy. but the opposite? she prob wont remember my last name after a few more weeks.

spicynujac
Guest
spicynujac
Offline
Phantom
Guest
Phantom
Offline

The one example I have first hand of a woman loving a man for decades, is the undying devotion my mum always had for my dad, and still has today even 8 years after his passing.

Of course, we have to consider the other factors that helped make it so. They married young, she never had to work and was a house wife all her life. So practically her husband and family were her everything. And he always was the patriarch and undisputed king of the house hold. So yeah..in their case, the traditional recipe certainly worked. Now that the structure that ensured a man and woman actually NEEDED each other has been eroded …we all know the results.

hv
Guest
hv
Offline

This is very true. Women are incredibly shallow creatures.. they don’t love deeply. Once they move on, they’re done with you and it’s like you never existed. They seem to transfer all that emotion very easily to the next man. But when a man loves a woman, he loves her deeply and forever.. or close to it, anyway.

Phantom
Guest
Phantom
Offline

You’re right. If I dig deep enough, I probably still have some remnants of devotion for my first case of love-at-first-sight one-itis when I was 17 or so …lol.

Najat
Guest
Najat
Offline

Who hurt you? So many on here needs healing.

Bavieca
Guest
Bavieca
Offline

“Yeah, but you know what? Women don’t “love” you no matter what.”

Women can actually love a man if the following condition satisfied:

StochasticFats
Guest
StochasticFats
Offline

Gold 🙂

Najat
Guest
Najat
Offline

Who hurt you? You need healing.

William Tarbush
Guest
William Tarbush
Offline

I’ve not said anything on your site before. It is a difficult topic and only talking about it will bring about the neo-masculine ideal for Love.

shadowofashade
Guest
shadowofashade
Offline

You hit it out of the park, Roosh.

The problem with forcing the alpha / dark triad personality or having to forcibly amputate the ‘loving’ emotions for self-preservation is that it makes men less capable of identifying the woman who is genuinely interested and/or would make an acceptable mate.

There is an old saying: “Women must be taught to love men, or men will learn to hate women.” And men in the West have learned to override the long-term mating instinct in favor of survival or PUAism.

Today’s divorce-rape, feminist Western society is full of ‘broken’ men (even the ‘alphas’) and ‘broken’ women, and is therefore beyond redemption.

armenia4ever
Guest

Ever heard the sang, “women need love, and men need respect”?

It’s said that men are the true romantics and I believe that is because we can actually fall in love.

Men need to find women that respect us, and are thus deserving of our love and “romance”.

I have had feelings for friends with benefits meaning that sex is more than just physical even for men.

If you’ve read Daniel Rose’s Sex God, he suggests that sex is physical, emotional, and mental in its connection and if you can do all 3, you’ll have phenomenal sex and a great sex life, and hopefully a lasting happy marriage.

spicynujac
Guest
spicynujac
Offline

So for those of you who have experienced love *after* taking the red pill, I’d be interested to know (a) that it’s still possible and (b) how it’s different than love as a beta. I’ve experienced love a couple of times, and it’s an awesome feeling. Nothing quite motivates me the way love did.

I certainly hope it happens again, but just having the experience a few times in a lifetime is enough. But I’m not sure than unconditional love is possible after taking the redpill. It’s just too hard to know all the things about women and how our culture and society has failed to instill the rules necessary and it seems even the redpill married guys accept that she could literally be gone tomorrow and they are prepared for that if it does indeed happen.

Phantom
Guest
Phantom
Offline

Honestly, I’d say the only true unconditional love a man can feel is the love for his own child. This is something you cannot fully understand before actually becoming a dad. It awakens a protective instinct within you don’t know even existed until then.

As regards love with a woman, I believe it can happen too with the right one, with a couple of conditions:
– Don’t expect perfection, strive for ‘pretty damn good most of the time’
– Have unbending standards of behaviour and respect towards each other that you NEVER allow yourself or her to stray from.
– Accept that love between a man and a woman is never unconditional. It’s on condition that both are getting their needs met. Being aware of this actually gives the relationship a better chance to succeed. Both must know what their duties are towards the other, and honour them.
– Accept that eventually the intense love and attraction felt at the beginning will stabilize and mature into something less intense, but that can still be greatly comforting and satisfying. How much it will decline or not depends on how diligent both are in keeping the spark alive.

Hipstersstink
Guest
Hipstersstink
Offline

For myself I was tired of dating. So the time was right. I chose a girl with all kinds of red flags (largely divorced by a man that used her and she did not seem to be over it).

Throughout the relationship the red flags nagged at me. I ignored them and tried to take a different path. I fell for her, but not like I would when I was pre-red pill.

The funny thing was all my efforts to refuse to give in to her and give her everything she wanted was my undoing. I refused to be a chump that got walked over and she ended it out of nowhere.

For me it just confirmed everything I knew and a lot of what is said here. It was a crude reminder that women are too emotional and can drop you on the fly because “right now I feel like”….that bit of advice couldn’t be further from the truth.

So in essence – I was reminded of all the red pill learnings I had. Probably saved me from the handcuffs of being a chump and a lifelong provider. So in a way, sticking to my guns and not giving in entirely because of the red pill beliefs instilled in me probably saved me in the long run.

I think red pill love can only work with a girl that shares similar values, but I don’t think that exists because of their true nature.

Hipstersstink
Guest
Hipstersstink
Offline

Couldn’t be closer to the truth I meant.

DarthHideous
Guest
DarthHideous
Offline

Glad to see you’re tackling new frontiers Roosh. It would be interesting to see you and more writers write about love in the context of masculinity.

General Stalin
Guest
General Stalin
Offline

Thanks for writing. You published this article at a very apt point in my life. I’ve noticed myself becoming more and more of a selfish and impatient asshole with women and it has certainly ruined many interactions and potential relationships I could have had.

Game teaches us to be hard, expectation independent, stoic, selfish, uncompromising, and even manipulative. Grinding these tenets into your head for years will eventually turn you into someone who has a hard time connecting with women on a deeper level and actually pair-bonding and having the patience and sensitivity to forge a worthwhile relationship.

It’s not about being some hard-nose take no shit alpha 24/7. No one can be like that. You’d have to be a robot and/or be alone forever. Its about finding a happy medium between being a selfish asshole badboy and being an accomodating sensitive beta

Khash
Guest
Khash
Offline

i totally disagree on the statement that when you feel in love with a woman whom you find love worthy then you become a beta-male. thats only in the case that you were faking an alpha whereas you truly are not.

look at the male Lion he’s a true Alpha male and he makes a dominion with HIS females and protects them. unlike tiger who hooks and then runs away.
I depict Male Lion as an Alpha as he truly is, a majestic creature.
while Tiger a bastard, who chases his shadow into darkness.

greyghost1
Guest
greyghost1
Offline

Most “alphas’ here are beta males with game. True natural alphas are psychopaths of no value to anyone. Alphas don’t have this conversation.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

Exactly, Most ‘alphas’ in the modern sense are merely socially engineered people who would not exist if the society ever became different. Which is to say, sadly, real soon.

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

I follow Roosh and ROK because of the political views not because of advice on how to slay 25 skanks over the next few months. Personally, I have no game, or at least I have no cold approach. There was a point maybe a year back where I thought about working on this but it was a moment of weakness.
.
I decided to stick to what has seemed to work for me for the last decade: select and treat your next girlfriend as if she was your last girlfriend. In short, don’t put your dick in, nor generally waste your time on anything but potential wife material.
.
So now it seems I have locked down my unicorn but it comes with a learning curve. Back in the day it was taken for granted that once the genie let me into her bottle that she would blow me, take a good pasting on her face and then perhaps take it up the ass.
.
But now I have this amazing woman and it is a slow process to debauch her in the way that I am accustomed to. Guess what? I am fine with that! Maybe I am getting old but it is the quiet moments with her that are much more fulfilling than busting my nut.

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

I am not a religious guy but I have been to my share of weddings and EVERY FUCKING ONE cites first Corinthians 13:4
.
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”
.
But really, what I think Roosh is on to is in the next verse:
.
“When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”
.
As a blue-balled 18 year old, fucking everything that moved made perfect sense to me. As a 50 year old man. . . not so much. But the next verse is the kicker:

“And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”
.
AMEN

ezzywin
Guest
ezzywin
Offline

This is awesome and quite courageous Roosh, it takes a deep sense of integrity to go into territory that can be percieved as the stark opposite of everything you’ve stood for and built an empire upon…this shows that red pill is more about our position in this thing called reality that we all experience on an individual level, and that we can be masters of it as the flood of new info bombards us continually.

No doubt women can be confusing; their nature is nurture so they’ve developed and evolved in the emotional and manipulative arena in order to keep a social species like ourselves glued together…I remember a story on this clan of apes where the females wanted to migrate to the swamps where the soft shoots grow, but the silverbacks didnt like wading thru the mush, so the females came up with a clever way to get there: they’d wander a mile out and do the distress call, therefore the males by nature would go and be “protector” of the clan. by time the males get there the females were another mile towards the swamps doing another distress call, and so on until the males were led right to the swamps. Classic example of female manipulation by social primate species! but i digress.

But us men def need our power and our place as alphas and we need to help each other along the way. You know even rockstars that basically have wet snatch delivered by the boatload, still seek out a significant other eventually, for a more deep and meaningful relationship in which to raise a family and truly pass on a legacy. But until then they bagged alot of tail along the way haha.

Anyway kudos to you man, this shows true devotion to truth…

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

This is a watershed post for the red pill, PUA, manosphere.

Morrison
Guest
Morrison
Offline

“I don’t yet have clear advice for you, but I can tell you that becoming proficient with game does allow you to recognize whether the attraction you have for women is merely sexual or something more”.

Ok, who are you and what have you done with Roosh?

Seriously Roosh, this i found on rok: http://www.returnofkings.com/42941/the-manipulated-man-a-holy-bible-of-red-pill-wisdom

If love exists then why does “Manipulated Man” ring so true to red pill men? The writer of that article stated that men have a biological defect in that we are made to have feelings for something (ie women) that has no feelings for use for us outside of material resources.

It has been said that men need their myths and fantasies to distort the truth enough to make their existance bearable. Could this be the cause of your article above?

Danny
Guest
Danny
Offline

But what about love from a woman’s perspective? We all know men are silly romantics. My point is: women seem to get over a breakup much quicker than men. While you’re still grieving she already found another guy and seems to be perfectly happy with him.
Sometimes I think that if you’re not a woman’s first or second real love, you’re pretty much replaceable.
I wonder if Roosh’ two loves think about him the same way as he thinks about them.

greyghost1
Guest
greyghost1
Offline

Women don’t have the capacity to love. They gina tingle and get emotional but nothing like the love of a man.

hv
Guest
hv
Offline

“My point is: women seem to get over a breakup much quicker than men.
While you’re still grieving she already found another guy and seems to
be perfectly happy with him.”

Exactly this. This seems me a strong enough pattern that it merits some investigation and conclusions about a woman’s lack of capacity and ability to love as deeply as a man.

The other possible hypothesis I have is that by the time a woman actually decides to breakup with a man, she’s already lost her emotional bonding and love for him.. so it’s not surprising that moves on so quickly.

Shortest Straw
Guest
Shortest Straw
Offline

It depends on who is doing the breaking up. Women can be fiercely loyal. If she falls out of love with him, yes, she will be onto the next in no time. If he breaks up with her, she may have a fling to make herself feel better, but she will literally never get over him.

Bavieca
Guest
Bavieca
Offline

“But what about love from a woman’s perspective?”

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

If this is true, then I am doomed. My girl’s SMV is a good two points higher than mine.

Bavieca
Guest
Bavieca
Offline

Unless your girl’s richer than you and half your age, there’s no way she has a higher SMV than you do.

I trust you denigrated your own SMV – men who are in love are vulnerable to that, “this truly special beautiful NAWALT princess chose me the lowly stable boy! I can hardly believe how incredibly lucky I am!”

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

She is not quite half my age with a fashion model body in the making. I am clever and as a white guy I can still earn twice her salary, although I want to upgrade that next year to 5 or 6 times.comment image

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

I think I have a rather objective grasp on the situation, but what do you think?comment image
She’s 5’9″ and 130 and smart and creative and a whole lot of good shit.

Bavieca
Guest
Bavieca
Offline

Looks wise, I’d say she’s sorta kinda almost on par with you but being white is your trump card. Overall, her SMV is, at most, only nearly equal to yours, absolutely not higher as you previously averred.

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

I don’t know your travel agenda but China isn’t Thailand or the Phillipines (apparently, no one can spell that right) .

Economically speaking she is not something special, nor am I.
.
Looks wise, that is a shitty iPad pic with no makeup or preparation.comment image
if you fuck better looking women than this, then you are a sex god or multibillionaire.
.
But overall you don’t seem to have a good grasp of the Chinese situation. Interracial love is difficult to pull off and intergenerational is off the board generally.
.
Maybe you have good intentions to boost my ego as a white guy, However, my experience in the field has given me a more balanced perspective.

Bavieca
Guest
Bavieca
Offline

Look at it this way – if indeed you’re not her best option and she for sure can snatch a billionaire or a movie star or whatever then why would she stick with you? Not saying you’re selling yourself short or vice versa but I honestly think her SMV is not higher than yours.

But if you ever bring her to the West where most of the women are landwhales then YES, her SMV will go through the roof because there’d be legions of other white dudes wanting to woo her away from you.

66Scorpio
Guest
66Scorpio
Offline

Billionaires are not like mosquitoes. If a billionaire took affection to my girlfriend then that would be a test eh?
,
But I am getting old and theoretical questions of relative SMV make my brain hurt. I think she is gorgeous and she likes my body and mind, so that is enough.
.
I intend on keeping her here for at least 2 or 3 years because I am quite aware that bringing her to Canada could:
1) Expose her to feminism and
2) Have a million other guys trying to get into her pants.

Girl in the World
Guest
Girl in the World
Offline

The mating drive and all the supportive bonding chemical reactions are there for a reason. You don’t have to be a slave to them, but enjoying them for what they are and putting them to good use is one of the greatest pleasures in life.

I appreciate the honesty of your evolution, Roosh 🙂

New to the red
Guest
New to the red
Offline

A lot of people find the manosphere because they were in love. Hopelessly in love, only to have their heart ripped out and trampled on. The elephant in the room is a lot of men have abondonment issues and wear a mask to cover it.

greyghost1
Guest
greyghost1
Offline

That is insulting and you know it.

yup
Guest
yup
Offline

I agree, and I think to some Degree, it’s good for a Man to start looking for love, I found personally that when I was Banging different women, and when My motive was Banging lots of women that I developed a Mentality that attracted me to the Wrong women, the women who spread their legs fast and were easy lays I hunted for and Desired, where as the women who were chaste I considered Prudes and no Fun, as I’ve Grown and My Masculinity developed my mindset on women has changed, and Now I see the chaste woman I once viewed as Prudes, and no Fun as desirable and the women who spread fast their Legs as undesirable whores.

anonymous
Guest
anonymous
Offline

Oy vey!

TyKo Steamboat
Guest
TyKo Steamboat
Offline

is there a point to these lame cartoons?

Rob
Guest
Rob
Offline

I’m replying to Tyko Steamboat….He’s obviously anti semite. Even though lunatic muslim radicals are machine gunning and blowing up modern civilization, this jack ape is anti semite. Go figuh….

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

Who’s letting them in?

I don’t think antisemite means anything when the jews are not a semitic people, they are edomites not israelite; and they are behind mass immigration and much worse evil besides that. Since most jews always follow their evil elite, they all become the same way. Antisemite is a meaningless word that is not an insult, rather than a compliment to a truth-teller.

jared thompson
Guest
jared thompson
Offline

Sadly, the jew is behind enduing evil in the world as they try to replace God with themselves.

spro23
Guest
spro23
Offline

the more I think about it I really hope Iran nukes Israel. only the past few months watching world events have I really put the pieces together

greyghost1
Guest
greyghost1
Offline

I thought the “elephant in the room” was family law. By law there is no wife and there will be no love. Love for a man in the west is like love for a male black widow spider. Just the way it is.

Beatem
Guest
Beatem
Offline

I guess there’s hope. Maybe from a Brazilian or a Russia girl.

Leads
Guest
Leads
Offline

“love” was invented by Russians in order to to get free pussy at the time.”

I just shot coffee out my nose! Makes sense. Russians are fucking brilliant I tell you. I’ve been to Ukraine but now must penetrate Russia

Ternarydemon
Guest
Ternarydemon
Offline

Men love idealistically, women love realistically. Men fall in love with the mental image of her woman. Women fall in love with the feelings their man produces. A man´s love can be (naively) loyal, while a woman’s love will be intensely practical (limbically) up to the point her social environment and beauty preclude her from attracting higher quality males.

Ed E Mojo
Guest
Ed E Mojo
Offline

Roosh,
I love this article. And your books (I have 4 on Kindle).
I am 50. And I have become a better man (with women) because of Bang! and A Dead Bat In Paraguay.
Anyway, what I see in this post is a man who is maturing. I hope you do very well in the years ahead. And I enjoy this blog.

The City Bachelor
Guest

If only a man could retain long-term attractiveness while in love. That is the Holy Grail.

TyKo Steamboat
Guest
TyKo Steamboat
Offline

you mean a woman maintains long term attractiveness? Men age much, much, much better than women do.

Frank Davidson
Guest
Frank Davidson
Offline

I think even Roissy himself said that love is the only thing in this world that isn’t bullshit.

StochasticFats
Guest
StochasticFats
Offline

I think another thing that’s denied or not looked at is that there are still people who have successful long term sometimes lifetime relationships. What did these men do to make that happen and make that work? How did they filter? Game is still in its infancy. A lot of great thinkers like Roosh though who will contribute to figuring it out.

Bugger
Guest
Heinrich von Geobbels
Guest
Heinrich von Geobbels
Offline

ARRGGHHH! EYE BLEACH! EYE BLEACH!

And I will bet the thin anorexic white chick is really a guy… =-O

Крум Безстрашни
Guest
Крум Безстрашни
Offline

Roshko, stop beating around the bush, just announce the wedding date already?!

Grampy_Bone
Guest
Grampy_Bone
Offline

This is an important post. The simple facts are if you fuck a girl enough times you *will* fall in love with her.

Shortest Straw
Guest
Shortest Straw
Offline

Love is part of pair bonding, which originated as a beta male mating strategy. That doesn’t make it wrong or dysfunctional. Just understand and accept its existence.
Kudos to Roosh for facing facts, as always.

A.W.E.S.O.M.-O
Guest
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O
Offline

Finding a solid woman is the ultimate goal of game for me. I met one of these few women in Germany about six years ago. She was 6 years older than me, she went to oxford, cooked for me everyday, and even came back to Texas after the 3 months we spent together. Sucks that I was a poor college student otherwise I could’ve made it work. And fuck long distance, I don’t mean that, we would’ve both ended up in the same place. It was definitely real love though.

MajorStyles
Guest
MajorStyles
Offline

I love my wife; however, I did not let myself “love her” until she passed a rigorous series of tests during the dating cycle – this took around a year and a half.

Men can love quite naturally and deeply – even the most jaded of players. The secret is not doling out this precious feeling to just anyone. You have to vet the perspective buyer, seeing if she is worthy. This is especially true in today’s climate, where socio-political feminism has trained so many women to hate men.

Having a personal criteria is important. Roosh’s article awhile back about things he required in a wife is the right idea. All men should have something similar (I know I did). Then, when you meet a woman who can match your criteria, you can allow yourself to love that person.

In short, using the cheesy poet’s analogy, love can grow like a flower under the correct conditions.

Hipstersstink
Guest
Hipstersstink
Offline

Good comment.

Bavieca
Guest
Bavieca
Offline

“In short, using the cheesy poet’s analogy, love can grow like a flower under the correct conditions.”

Here’s one of such conditions:

Крум Безстрашни
Guest
Крум Безстрашни
Offline

Haha, spot on!

jz95
Guest
jz95
Offline

Is that Lucille Ball? Looks kind of like her.

Andrea
Guest
Andrea
Offline

This post and most of the comments will fill your female readership with hope: thank you. Maybe planting the seed that will germinate the answers that we are all seeking. Men and women need to learn how to love again, during and after the storm.

Joe Shanley
Guest
Joe Shanley
Offline

Thanks Roosh. It has been risky to bring up love, even though it is obviously a real, normal, and healthy thing.

anon1
Guest
anon1
Offline

I agree on the love thing, but I also understand why there are angry and jaded young and old men that insist it doesn’t.

Pump and dumps are fun but they really don’t have that much value when you are past your sexual peak

night jon
Guest
night jon
Offline

Falling in love means, you can finally BE YOURSELF 🙂

Крум Безстрашни
Guest
Крум Безстрашни
Offline

And get booted in a couple of months.

The Private Man
Guest
The Private Man
Offline

The crux of the matter is “relationship goals”. If crushin’ the puss is the goal. fine. If being in a committed and intimate relation is the goal, also fine. The problem is that the loudest and proudest men get all the attention and they crush the puss and worse, claim that doing so should be the only legitimate goal for all man. It’s not. A confident and strong man knows this and seeks his goals not based on what other men intend for him but what other men know that he can use.

Morrison
Guest
Morrison
Offline

“, but on a game journey that will include meeting hundreds of women, you will develop strong feelings for at least one”

My game journey merely made me realize women’s true selfish nature. Only guys who are clueless betas and don’t date much are the simps who ‘develop strong feelings for at least one’.

I’m begining to think something happened to roosh and this site was hijacked by some pro-feminist group and is ‘astroturfing’ rooshv.com in an effort to change the red pil readers here.