The Hypocrisy Of American Feminism

This is a guest post by Athlone McGinnis.

There is a significant difference in the nature of Swedish feminism versus American feminism: the latter wants to have things both ways (“We’re totally equal but men should still be chivalrous”), while Swedish feminists appear to actually mean equality when they say it.

I don’t think that American men hate feminism in and of itself. The vast majority of American men don’t have a problem with legal and occupational equality for women, but what really irks them is the hypocrisy of it all. The root cause of it is the uniquely arrogant nature of American feminism, whereby women demand more power without any consequences. The basic fundamental nature of these issues is defined by a female desire to have their cake and eat it too.

Consider the following issues:

1. “Manning up.” Females here want to ride the cock carousel in youth while shunning commitment from the beta males who do want it, sometimes outright insulting them. Then they want to age while shaming and harping on them to “man up.” Have cake, eat cake.

How can a man win in this situation? When he tries to be the nice, committed, idealistic romantic that women say they want, he gets shunned. The feminists label him a “Nice Guy” ™, which in their lexicon is code for creepy loser with an agenda. So he is shamed for “manning up.”

Assuming the guy isn’t an idiot, he proceeds to adapt. He learns game, stops taking women out on dinner dates, and keeps things more casual. His success improves. He mans up in a way that women weren’t expecting, but then as he ages, he once again encounters problems. Now those same women who “didn’t want to get serious” suddenly want to get serious. They shunned him for wanting to commit so he stopped committing, and it worked. Now they shame him for not committing enough and failing to “man up.” Since they’re rapidly aging, they want back the cake they ate (read: rejected) in their prime, expecting the former “nice guy” to provide it.

2. Obesity. Fat women in America want to eat however they like and maintain zero impulse control or discipline, but they also want to be treated as though they were fit, cute girls without looking the part. They shouldn’t be called unattractive or unhealthy even though they are unattractive and unhealthy. Have cake, eat cake (literally).

3. Divorce laws. “We as women are entirely equal to men intellectually and socially, but we still want alimony, and will proceed to initiate 75% of all divorces even though we were the ones begging men to ‘man up’ and marry us in the first place.” They beg men to man up, and yet promote a legal system that gives men very little incentive to do so. Have cake, eat cake.

4. “I just want a nice, reliable guy.” After saying this she proceeds to bang the idiotic DJs down the street while ignoring the “nice, reliable” guys she does know. Says one thing, does another. Had the cake, ate the cake. Later on, she’ll wonder where all of the good guys went, and you’ll start hearing her call for her male peers to “man up.”

5. Don’t know how to cook. Roosh mentioned this one on his list of 42 Things Wrong With American Women. Not knowing how to cook isn’t really a bad thing in and of itself. The problem comes when you insert hypocrisy. These same women who lack cooking and other domestic skills (i.e., cannot fill a traditional feminine gender role) expect men to fulfill traditional male gender roles (pay all the bills and be chivalrous). Again, they want to have their cake and eat it too. It is equal when they like it, misogynistic when they do not.

6. Sex Tourist. Women who travel are always “broadening their horizons” and “discovering the world”. Nobody is going to question a woman who wants to take a trip to Latin America for a summer. A guy, though? Probably a sex tourist. Nevermind the fact that quite a few older women travel to parts of the Caribbean trying to “Rent a Rasta.”

Take the movie Heading South as an example, about older American female sex tourists in Haiti sexing up and generously compensating young Haitian teens. It received solid reviews and even a few awards at Venice in 2005. Let’s imagine a movie with a very similar premise except the protagonists this time are American men in the Dominican Republic sexing up teenage girls. How well received do you think that would have been?

7. They have standards way beyond their level of attractiveness. This is another item off Roosh’s list of 42. Fat girls here don’t lower their standards. They do not limit themselves to a guy with a similar BMI. They want a dude with 10-12% body fat, just like every other chick. Yet whenever men complain about not being able to date a woman on their own level, women label their standards “unrealistic” by saying, “Clearly you’re just looking at the wrong girls! Maybe the problem is you!”

Women can want whatever their hearts desire and state it openly, but men are shamed for voicing those same wants. She is free to go on and on about her 400+ point list of requirements (“He’s gotta be at least 6’2″, has to have a masters, must make at least six figures, needs to be handsome”), but when a man starts with his much shorter list (“She needs to be loyal, caring, but I’d like her to also be thin…”), he is a delusional misogynist promoting unhealthy standards of beauty.

8. Cougars. Older women sport-fucking men half their age is fine. Those women are empowered, embracing their sexuality. Who cares if she just hit 40 and the guy is barely old enough to buy alcohol? Now let’s replace the 40-year-old female cougar with a 40-year-old male businessman, and the 21-year-old college dude with a 21-year-old female co-ed. What happens?

Whereas the cougar was “empowered” and not widely criticized for engaging in a relationship with such a huge age gap, he is a “dirty old man”. He is obviously going through a mid-life crisis, even though she clearly wasn’t (and we all know that women hit their sexual prime at 35…right? RIGHT?).

All of this is easy to see through, and that is why men hate it so much. It is just too wildly transparent and self-serving. Equal pay and legal rights are fine, but feminism here isn’t demanding that. It’s asking for female dominance, not equality, and that is somewhat infuriating. Modern, mainstream third-wave American feminism seems to very strongly support, or fail to criticize, these constant double standards. This is why men hate it.

Getting back to the Scandinavian question, Swedish feminists may be outspoken in their demand for absolute equality, but they’re not going to encourage their women to eat and look like land-whales while still nurturing ridiculously high standards for men, which is part of why they have only a 9% obesity rate. Men there are not forced to deal with the hypocrisy of physically repulsive women asking to be treated as though they were way above the law. Their women may not fit traditional feminine gender roles very well, but they’re also not subsequently asking men to keep filling masculine roles the way many American women do (they’re more likely to pay on a date, among other things). Thus, the guys don’t seem quite as angry, and I don’t blame them. I wouldn’t be either.

On another note, American women of all kinds seem to generally maintain a passionate hatred for beta males. This varies somewhat by community (it’s obviously more extreme among blacks, less so among whites and Asians), but it’s there. They are almost universally unwelcome in this society by females.

It has been mentioned before that in Scandinavia and much of the rest of Europe, beta males seem to carry a lot more value. Now, consider that the majority of men everywhere are what you would call beta males, and you have a clearer answer. Swedish women are not quite as hostile to betas, which comprise the majority of the male populace, meaning you will see more amicable gender relations. American women, especially feminists, tend to dislike betas. Thus, you have less amicable gender relations.

Add to this the raw capitalist nature of American relations where so many relationships seem to be about the transfer of status and cash, rather than the more crucial intangible things, and you have a recipe for hostility. The women here never really love the men in the first place, and the men, most of whom are betas, naturally react with skepticism and hostility towards a female populace that is more openly and viciously hostile to betas than others across the world.

85 Comments

  1. Luckystar October 14, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Athlone…this is your calling my friend.

  2. sharp analysis October 14, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Great comparison. But is hypocrisy not a broader US problem rooted in US culture and puritan mentality? how did it get that far? what is the underlying cause to this problem?

    1. Joe February 8, 2017 at 12:02 pm

      Feminism/Government work together

  3. Anonymous October 14, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Excellent guest post. Does a great job of summing up much of the general theme going through the manosphere these days.

  4. Steven Lurkel October 14, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Well done. Nice to see your writing outside of the confines of the forum, AM.

  5. Markus October 14, 2011 at 9:48 am

    Hello. I like this blog.

    Having never been to the USA, but being a Swede (and not one of the “Swedes” who’ve arrived here from the third world in the last few decades) I guess I can chime in.

    Sweden has got the feminazi disease BAD. I guess there are quite a few normal women, but our government is infested with radical feminism. The so called “gender-roles” (i.e. masculinity/femininity) are being constantly attacked. Women are to be men, and men women. Affirmative action is rampant in the police force/fire department. Young boys and girls are being indoctrinated in “equality” and “diversity” from the time they are born. The schools are horrible, with a lot of immigrant violence, and home-schooling has recently been made illegal. Free speech exists only on paper. If you speak up against controversial subjects (immigration for instance) losing your job and becoming socially outcast is a real threat.

    There are pre-schools where you’re not allowed to use the words “hon” (her) or “han” (him) but instead you are to use the made up word “hen” (since gender is all in the brain, right).

    Sweden has become really awful. A lot of people are packing up and moving to other countries just because they can’t stand it anymore. 50% taxes doesn’t help either.

  6. Vicious October 14, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Markus:
    Half the stuff you mention is not true.
    *The “hen” part was the experiment of ONE preschool.
    *I challenge you to provide a single statistic that shows people are emigrating from Sweden.
    *Affirmative action in the police force/fire department is a moot point since women still have to conform to the same physical requirements as men.

    The other half of your post is a standard “immigration is evil” speech. I am so tired of this rant. It really shows the worst of how spoiled Swedes have become. It always comes from the people who lack any real perspective, whose experiences of living in other countries are restricted to a two week vacation at a resort in Thailand.

  7. Mighty Mouse October 14, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Hey Athlone,

    thanks for the article. I have just two questions:

    Have you ever been living in Sweden long-term?

    Have you ever been there at all?

    I can almost predict the answer…

  8. Johnny Milfquest October 14, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Swedish feminism sounds similar to UK feminism.

    Over here the women who call themselves “feminists” would get pissed off with the very notion of male chivalry.

    “Feminist” means either “fat dyke” and/or “career woman” on this side of the Atlantic.

    1. Der Mac July 24, 2014 at 3:11 am

      Which side is this side?

  9. Anon October 14, 2011 at 10:49 am

    I heard Sweden has castrated their men to the point that Muslims are going around raping Swedish women.

    Maybe Tiger Woods can chime in on how Swedish women like to emasculate their men?

    But hey, at least they aren’t fat like our women.

  10. JST October 14, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Your articles get better and better Roosh. It’s too bad the mainstream would never accept your material. It would wake up so many men and threaten the feminist monolith.

  11. Pingback: In Response to “The Hypocrisy Of American Feminism”

  12. A.B. Dada October 14, 2011 at 11:04 am

    This is a fantastic guest post, Roosh. Thanks for posting it.

    My general comment is that all of these issues can be handled if a man understands that women are of two minds: the inner brain (“hamster”) that motivate them to do things via action, and the outer brains (“shit-tester”) that motivates them to say things verbally.

    I go into greater detail at my own blog: http://www.2abd.com/relationships/relationship-economics/in-response-to-the-hypocrisy-of-american-feminism/

  13. Fredrick October 14, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Sweden is the saudi arabia of feminism. a man can be thrown in jail for not wearing a condom during consensual sex if the woman complains about it to the police. sweden is not an example of “good” feminism as athlone implies. there is no good form of feminism, it is a universal legal and social movement based on women’s entitlement at men’s expense. It is the greatest threat to civilization since Nazism.

  14. Markus October 14, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Vicious:

    “*The “hen” part was the experiment of ONE preschool.”

    True. But it got a whole lot of attention, and not much of it was bad. Media-wise at least.

    “*I challenge you to provide a single statistic that shows people are emigrating from Sweden.”

    I hope this works:

    http://www.ssd.scb.se/databaser/igraph/MakeGraph.asp?onpx=y&pxfile=tmp2011101416501420BE0101M3.px&PLanguage=1&menu=y&gr_type=1

    “*Affirmative action in the police force/fire department is a moot point since women still have to conform to the same physical requirements as men.”

    Not true. Women are actively recruited having performed worse than men. Women have lower standards required. Somehow 50% of the new students at the police academy are women, despite only being about a third of the applicants. This is true year after year. And it’s also illegal. If you speak Swedish, here is something to read: http://www.dn.se/debatt/sluta-kvotera-till-polishogskolan

    “The other half of your post is a standard “immigration is evil” speech. I am so tired of this rant. It really shows the worst of how spoiled Swedes have become. It always comes from the people who lack any real perspective, whose experiences of living in other countries are restricted to a two week vacation at a resort in Thailand.”

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the people who commit violent crimes in Sweden, and the rest of the west? They’re not usually white. Welcome to reality.

  15. Andy October 14, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Great post!A further example to validate the american female delusion

    http://www.datemedc.com/2010/12/are-you-strong-enough-to-be-my-man.html

    A late 20s DC women who claims that she cannot cook,has no desire to learn,cusses like a sailor and then hopes to find a man who can cook for her.

    Surprised at her lack of success in finding a mate (who has to be tall,successfull,goodlooking hah!) she moans about the lack of commitment minded men in US.

    Any guesses about her future?

  16. Wolf October 14, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    “Once made equal to man, woman becomes his superior.” ~Socrates (c.325 BC) Wisdom never changes.

  17. Alfapet October 14, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    “while Swedish feminists appear to actually mean equality when they say it.”

    LOL!

    “Men there are not forced to deal with the hypocrisy of physically repulsive women asking to be treated as though they were way above the law.”

    Men here can get sentenced for rape if the chick you fuck decides — not the day after, not the week after, not the month after — but 8 years (!!) after you’ve fucked her, that no, she really didn’t want to do it after all..

    “No forensic evidence was presented in the case as proof that Beltran had raped the girl. Intead the case centred on the credibility of the witnesses and the alleged victim and perpetrator.”
    http://www.thelocal.se/9960/20080212/

  18. Gus October 14, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Well, I will speak from whatever little personal experience I have with Swedish women. Just to add, I am not a permanent resident of either of these two countries. Just someone who travels a bit for work.

    I have been out on a date with one Swedish woman. Met her at my dance class. She asked me out, and because she had done the asking, on the date she insisted on paying for both of us. In another instance, two Swedish girls that I met at a bar bought me a round of shots. Then we switched bars. At the other place, while I was chilling with her friend, the other girl went to the bar, and brought drinks for all three of us. Mind you, this was a very crowded bar.

    To this date, these are the only instances where some girl has bought me drinks or has paid 100% on a date. I have had girls who split the tab on a date before, but never asked me out explicitly or paid entirely on a date.

    Nothing even close to this has ever happened with an American woman. So yes, speaking from personal experience, I have a fairly positive view of Swedish women.

  19. Stu October 14, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Sorry mate but you obviously have no clue about Sweden. I’ve lived here for over a decade and don’t recognise your view of the country at all.

  20. Anonymous October 14, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    You forgot one:
    Want to play in big league careers and yet have to freedom to drop out and play house at their whim, and have the same job waiting for their return, at the employers and coworkers expense. And this behavior should not affect advancement.

    Have cake, eat cake.

  21. Steven Lurkel October 14, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    from the back and forth between the swedes here, I guess swedish feminism isn’t so great either. still, they’ve got way fewer fatties…and I’ve seen that with mine own eyes.

  22. Anonymous October 14, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    No form of feminism is “so great.”

    The Swedes, like the rest of us, should be thankful that representatives of more civilized cultures are arriving at their shores, and vastly out breeding them. It’s how evolution deals with dysfunction.

  23. beta_plus October 14, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    WIth the exception of divorce laws, all of the above is true for Swedish and Nordic feminism as well.

    The only reason for that is that the Nordic welfare state simply strips beta males automatically of their wealth to pay for feminists children, without making them go through the unpleasantness of ever actually having to sleep with them, making the need for unfair divorce laws irrelevant.

  24. Roosh October 14, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    It looks like the main criticism of Athlone’s article is his understanding of Swedish feminism, which can be difficult to pin down. Otherwise, his observations about American feminism are 100% dead on. This article should be bookmarked for guys who regularly encounter bullshit feminist arguments.

  25. Athlone McGinnis October 14, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    I am not as familiar with Swedish feminism as I am with its American cousin, that I concede.

    This being said, my perception simply was that, while both examples are less than ideal for men, one was certainly better than the other. That is to say, a “lesser evil” of sorts.

    So, to sum it up: I never said Swedish feminism is great/ideal, but if you made me choose between it and its American counterpart, it would be my choice. At the bare minimum, I’ll deal with fewer entitled landwhales attempting to justify their lack of attractiveness with ideology, and I won’t be expected to adhere strictly to traditional masculine gender roles while she throws feminine tradition out the window (read: she might actually offer to pay for a date or two). Instead, I get relatively fit women and I’m free to toss masculine responsibilities to the wayside as well.

    Come to America, and you will get every downside mentioned here by Scandinavians about Scandinavian feminism (anti-male rape laws, feminism appropriating your money via bureaucracy, etc), coupled with much larger/uglier women and even greater gender hypocrisy (the type that only America’s unique blend of Puritan Calvinism can produce).

    That, and American society is almost certainly a worse place to be a beta. You’ll not only be forced to settle with less attractive women than you could find in Scandinavia (thanks, obesity) and deal with gender role double standards (“the man’s gotta pay, but I’m an independent woman!”) but you’ll also be encased in a culture that lionizes the Type-A/Alpha/in-your-face, extroverted persona in men more than any other, a fact that will only make you stand out more for not being that guy.

    There is a reason why so many hardened players come out of this nation’s major urban centers(and Toronto, to a lesser extent). Roosh mentioned it here:

    http://www.rooshv.com/do-american-guys-have-the-best-game-in-the-world

    American gamers are hardened, ballsy and aggressive because America eats betas for lunch. By the same token, Black americans are perceived to have even tougher, sharper and more aggressive game(as Roosh mentions towards the end of that post) because black american women hate (and I mean HATE) betas more than just about anyone else on Earth(and I’m even gonna include other black populations around the world when I say that).

    Scandinavia (among other places) is a much friendlier environment for a beta to persist in than America. If I were a beta (read: 80% of men), that is something I’d strongly consider.

    No need to take my word as gospel, but I’m fairly certain which poison I’d prefer to swallow (and which one would be less likely to kill me).

    All forms of feminism are not created equal, IMO.

    @sharp analysis:

    “Great comparison. But is hypocrisy not a broader US problem rooted in US culture and puritan mentality? how did it get that far? what is the underlying cause to this problem?”

    You guessed correctly the first time. America’s unique historical blend of Calvinist Puritanism is largely at the root of the hypocrisy, which you can see just about everywhere in American culture. Dating is just one aspect of it all.

  26. beta_plus October 14, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    @Athlone

    First, I want to say that I agree with everything you say about American feminism. I just disagree that Swedish/Nordic feminism is any better.

    Swedish and Nordic Feminism only seem slightly less worse than American feminism and easier on Betas until you actually try to make a life for yourself. It’s qualitatively different but in aggregate just as bad as in the US (and I would argue worse because you can much easily move to other parts of the US where things aren’t so bad like the South and the tax burden is lower).

    As a tourist with game, Scandinavia comes across as somewhat better because the girls are less fat* than America and are not quite as hypocritical upfront. But you still need world class game to deal with them and they are just as emotionally unpleasant as American women, though in different ways.

    Try getting a job there and having to pay into their welfare state, and the real nastiness comes out. They are extremely racist and it’s very difficult to find work as a foreigner unless your are in IT or high finance. If you do manage to get a job but don’t have excellent game for a GF, you end paying a fortune in taxes and get nothing in return, especially if you are already finished with your education and are in good health. Basically, you end paying for a bunch blond blue eyed sluts’ bastard children and they don’t have to deal with the unpleasantness of sleeping with beta you to get your money. While in America this is also somewhat true, being stuck as a welfare mom is a horrific experience and is a lower tax burden for a beta – so you can at least get back at them a bit. Not so in Sweden and the Nordic states.

    The face that American feminists fantasize about turning America into Sweden should be a big red flag indicating that maybe it isn’t as nice for betas as you might think.

    *notice I said LESS not NOT Fat – their fattiness is definitely comparable to Toronto

  27. P. Bateman October 14, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    I’ll chime in. I’ve noticed that “game” as I’ve learned it growing up in North America is not nearly as valuable in most situations all over Europe. I currently live in the UK and have had to adjust to being “nicer” to get better results. In Sweden, my experience is the same as mentioned above. Girls always approaching me, buying me drinks, very pleasant to talk with initially.

    Even if you just observe couples in London. Guys are hanging all over their girls…cuddling them…stuff that makes me cringe. But the girls seem to love it here. It’s a strange phenomenon.

    I think some people are delving too deep and talking about other consequences of Sweden’s domestic policies (high taxes, etc.). Obviously those are issues. But when you speak with a Swedish gal (or any European girl for that matter) and an American gal there is an extreme difference.

    The only bad encounter I’ve had dating women in the UK (so far) was with a Canadian girl who was playing the usual tricks I’m more familiar with.

    No doubt not all women like the “nice guy” in Europe (nobody likes a doormat no matter where you live) but, for me anyways, I get a lot further acting “nicer”. Back home? Forget it. Had to be a major arsehole on a consistent basis. There’s a difference in their attitudes and behaviour. This article sums up what I’ve believed, and many readers of this blog, for years.

  28. Macizo October 14, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    @ ROOSH

    I agree with #13, “there is not good form of feminism” Not in USA or anywhere!! … We have had that clear for a while already, and most of us agree that it sucks in whatever flavor it comes.

    Now my question … When are going to leave behind your comfort zone in Poland? and “man up” 🙂 to conquer new territories and challenges in EE? … We would like to hear your reports and experiences from other countries in that area….

  29. Donkey_puncher October 14, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    I agree with most of these points. Good article.

  30. OGNorCal707 October 14, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Great post Athlone, you do an amazing job of breaking down the mentality of the American woman.

    I can see how some are busting your balls with the Swedish comparison, but I appreciate the spirit of the point you’re trying to make.

    You’ve proved yourself to be extremely intelligent, articulate, and analytical. You could be an excellent blogger/author if you choose to.

    Keep up the good work brotha.

  31. I Hate Fat American Women October 14, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Absolutely fucking right!! You totally nailed it with your post. American women…. PUKE!!!!!!

  32. duhduh October 15, 2011 at 1:11 am

    I like how vicious is implicitly disproving his own point with that swedes got spoiled comment. Yes, swedes got spoiled THE OTHER (non-hypenated) SWEDES that’s what we’re trying to say.

  33. duhduh October 15, 2011 at 1:12 am

    EDIT:

    I like how vicious is implicitly disproving his own point with that swedes got spoiled comment. Yes, swedes got spoiled BY THE OTHER (non-hypenated) SWEDES that’s what we’re saying.

  34. Gort October 15, 2011 at 1:19 am

    I like pie…

  35. samseau October 15, 2011 at 1:27 am

    Decent summary. I’m not sure why people say American women don’t pay. Every woman I’ve dated this year has split the bill. Many of them have bought me drinks too.

  36. tomtud October 15, 2011 at 2:55 am

    Sooo true… Women I have noticed have sex way more than men… For example in Cuba, the women tourists I would always see hanging with the local men etc. Yet, I would not see tourist men hanging with the local women…. Cuba is a bad example as there are double standards where a local man can talk to a tourist, while a female local may get into trouble…

    Anyhow, women in the west tend to abuse all the hard work the feminists have fought for many many years ago. As well, I can blame all the men who say they need a “pass” from the wife to go out… WTF??? a grown man needs permisssion from the wife??? c’mon!!! Beta men !!!!

    Guys have a backbone,, tell the woman this is how its gonna be or hit the road… Its not natural for a man to “nest” like a woman. However, it is natural for a man to conquer and spread his sperm…. The king of the jungle, the lion has his harem… Time for some men to act like a king, not a wussy!!!

  37. Torontokid October 15, 2011 at 3:11 am

    @beta_plus

    The Swedish are nowhere as fat as Toronto girls.

    Don’t get me started, tonight I was hanging out with my friends(they were with girls) and this fat chick kept grabbing my hand.

    There are like 5 times more fat chicks in Toronto compared to Stockholm(thats conservative).

    I’ve been to Stockholm, it murders Toronto.

  38. viking October 15, 2011 at 8:11 am

    Guys, its s nice getting together here to complain about those fat ladies that surround us. But is there any future for women in the US? The idea that our folks will have to live with fat creatures is just depressing to me. Maybe some vikings should come here to conquer our land and women? maybe bringing loads of Latin ladies from Medellin?

  39. P. Bateman October 15, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Tomtud makes a good point. Too many men in North America have let women get away with these attitudes. Every married guy I know acts like a doormat.

    Contrast that with the North American men I know who are married over here in England. They party harder than myself and they are a decade (sometimes two) older than me. Their wives don’t hassle them.

    If a woman knows you are still going to marry her even if she doesn’t bring anything to the table other than the same vagina to bed every night, then they aren’t going to change. I think the tide is changing but very slowly.

    Look at American tv. Shows like “How to be a Gentlemen” are being brought to market. I recall a lot of serious dramas in the 80s that depicted physical abuse towards women. I grew up with this being drilled in my head. The same serious approach should be taken with men who are acting like wussies…but it’s not, it’s considered comedy in America.

  40. Naughty Nomad October 15, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Great Article.
    It got me sufficiently riled up – and don’t even live in the U.S

  41. Marcus October 15, 2011 at 10:26 am

    “Their women may not fit traditional feminine gender roles very well, but they’re also not subsequently asking men to keep filling masculine roles the way many American women do (they’re more likely to pay on a date, among other things).”

    False analogy regarding the dating, because [American style] dating is a marginal phenomena in Sweden compared to in the US. The closest thing to dating Swedes engage in, is “fika,” which isn’t really comparable. Also, Swedish females DO demand that males fill all the masculine roles, when it suits the females of course… Men are free [and expected] to do all the underpaid, dangerous and disgusting things. Females in general just want to do the glamorous stuff. When the shit hits the fan though, the women are nowhere to be seen.

    “…the guys don’t seem quite as angry…”

    Most, or atleast part of that comes from the feminist indoctrination Swedish males have had to contend with for the past 30+ years, the point being that most of us Swedish males don’t even notice the oppression we’re subjected to any more, except in over the top obvious cases, such as lower standards on physical tests for females (pretty much everywhere they’re required.)

    When I went through basic education, which was more than 10 years ago, I remember the extreme focus that was given the girls, in EVERYTHING. It’s way worse now. Not too long ago, a study concluded that Swedish females are given preferential treatment with regards to grades, and that it’s been going on for a loooooong time.

    In fact, Swedish females are given preferntial treatment in pretty much all contexts:

    Law wise: Less harsh, if any, punishments than males for equivalent crimes; HUGE advantages in child custody fights, among other things (I could go on, and yes, there are stats that prove all my claims.) If you only knew what a degrading experience it is to get fathership registered in Sweden; details of treatment aside, if a woman says you’re the dad, refuting that is a loooong, expensive and painful process. If she denies that you’re the dad, even though you are, you essentially have no way in hell to actually claim your rights of fatherhood.

    Economy wise: Swedish men pay on average 55% more taxes than females, but the average pay of men is NOT 55% higher. In fact, it’s statistically been proven, that all things being equal other than gender, there is no difference between male and female earnings here.

    Most of the social care payouts go to females, and the general child care payout goes to females by default, not to both parents. Etc etc.

    Health wise: Most of the health care system is geared towards female needs (higher mortality among males in pretty much all applicable cases) and docs are much MUCH more prone to initiate treatments for females, and grant sick leave to females (the are statistics that prove this,) etc etc. Again, I could go on.

    Employment wise: Females get first dibs on on career positions in most companies due to threats of affirmative action etc. State employers are even worse.

    Education wise: Lots of universities and colleges discriminate against men in order to get more females on their courses. On all levels of education, females get almost all of the encouragement and assistance per default; males are expected to take care of themselves. On all all levels, feminine behaviours and strategies of learning are encouraged, while masculine behaviours and strategies of learning are discouraged.

    I could go on and on and on…

    Sweden is a country where numerical equality is touted as the optimal state of things, WHEN FEMALES ARE IN MINORITY.
    When males are in a small majority, say 52%, it’s derided as “gubbvälde” which is a derogatory term which loosely translates as “the rule of old, disgusting [white] men.” When numerical equality between men and women is reached, it’s “not enough,” and “more can be done.” When females are in majority however, even complete majority, like 3/4 majority, it’s celebrated as being “the peak of equality,” but sometimes, even that isn’t enough. I know of cases where females have 90% of the positions, and STILL females are given preferential treatment during recruitment etc, accompanied by the usual shouts of “discrimination against women.”

    Like Assange said, “Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism.” Men in general here are so very very whipped that they barely know any other state of being. Many of those who ARE aware, just give up to ennui, because the deck is so completely stacked against them. Also, leading male politicians and media personalities have been demonizing men for years here. Stockholm syndrome, anyone?

    I could go on for hours.

  42. samseau October 15, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Marcus pretty much destroys the myth of Sweeden being a “better” feminism.

    Great quote from Assange, btw. The laws in Sweeden are outrageous. Sweedes not being fat is probably because they do not have a car culture.

  43. beta_plus October 15, 2011 at 11:18 am

    @TorontoKid

    I’m 1/2 Danish and have been to Sweden plenty of times. Scandinavia has fat chicks, and if don’t have game it can feel like they are all fat.

    If you look at the stats, Sweden is only about 5% less than Canada overall. That’s still plenty of fat chicks. I also wonder if that considers margins of error and different metrics.

    It’s easy to get blinded by the blond hair and blue eyes and forget that if they weren’t that, they wouldn’t be nearly as hot.

  44. Falcon October 15, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Western society is going down the drain.

  45. Rudebwoy October 15, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Nice writing style Athlone and I notice no one is arguing what you wrote about USA.

    When was the last time you were in Sweden or have you EVER been?

    I think it is harsh to say most Swedish men are Beta’s, I would argue that most American men are beta’s too.

  46. Torontokid October 15, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    @beta_plus

    Nah, man. The number of fat chicks in Scandanavia are way less, unless they all go into hiding during the summer. And if they do thats not a problem.

    Obesity rates lie, unless they are broken down by age and gender.

    I’m sure Rudebwoy will agree, obesity in Toronto is far more prevalent.

  47. Torontokid October 15, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    @beta_plus

    Also, Canada is a whole has a low obesity rate. I’m talking about Toronto. I see lots of huge whales here each day in the subway.

  48. Athlone McGinnis October 15, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    @Rudebwoy: “I think it is harsh to say most Swedish men are Beta’s, I would argue that most American men are beta’s too.”

    Here is what I actually wrote in the blog entry(direct quote, capitals for added emphasis):

    “Now, consider that THE MAJORITY OF MEN EVERYWHERE are what you would call beta males, and you have a clearer answer.”

    Betas are humanity’s baseline. The majority of men in all places (Scandinavia, Jamaica, or the USA, doesn’t matter) are betas. This is why the 80-20 rule with regards to female hypergamy exists to begin with, and can be seen in action all over the place (though it is admittedly more exaggerated in some places than others).

    Women are naturally hypergamous, and only a small portion of any given male population in any given part of the world can easily satisfy that hypergamy (and, by extension, consistently attract multiple high quality female suitors). The men who can’t (read: most of them) are betas.

    @marcus: Most of the factors you listed exist in the USA as well…except here you’ll have much bigger and uglier women forcing them on you. As for this:

    “False analogy regarding the dating, because [American style] dating is a marginal phenomena in Sweden compared to in the US.”

    That is largely my point. Old school, American style dating (which is dying a slow, painful death in the USA, despite keeping a firm foothold on things) cannot coexist with the tenets of feminism.

    In Sweden, it does not have to, because they don’t maintain that system of old school dating anyway. In America, feminists still insist that on keeping the old rules of chivalry/male traditionalism alive even as they move away from traditional feminine roles. This creates problems, which I mentioned.

    One side is demanding the following of one general set of rules for everybody (no old school dating period). The other is creating two entirely separate and incongruent playing fields in an attempt to straddle two disparate eras in time at once (we’re moving away from traditional gender relationships and freeing things up…but we want traditional dating!).

    I still pick the Scandinavian poison personally, but that’s just me. I hate fat women and hypocrisy, and both are in slightly shorter supply over there.

    @beta_plus:

    The Candian obesity rate is about 24% (add 10 more points to get the American rate, 34%).

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/03/03/obesity-rate-higher-canada/

    Sweden’s rate is about 9%.
    http://cycling.lohudblogs.com/2008/12/15/obesity-rates-lower-in-nations-that-bike-walk-and-use-mass-transit/

    I’m sure there are big women in Sweden, but we’ve got many more of them here in North America (over twice as many in Canada, more than three times as many here in the USA). That isn’t debatable-Swedes are just not as big.

  49. Theodora October 15, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    saw this and thought of roosh:

    The driving force behind seeing patterns where there are none is hidden in the mists of natural selection. We’ve evolved to see patterns and this natural tendency often leads us to see many false causal connections. The main driving forces behind superstition are ignorance and fear of the unknown or unpredictable. Superstitious beliefs give us the illusion of control over events that we don’t understand. With our superstitious beliefs and practices, we try to control things that aren’t even known to be controllable.

    http://www.skepdic.com/superstition.html

  50. GunShow October 15, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    Hey great article,

    But stick to what you know, and you don’t know dick about Swedish Feminism. Its quite apparent you haven’t lived in the land of the most pussy whipped, cheated upon males in the world. Nothing is easier to pull than a drunk Swedish girl, relationship or not! “Respect me as an equal, but damn if I’ll ever keep my word”

    These American capitalist relations/Swedish/American Feminism terms sound like low-rent sociology (is there any other). You have great points but smear them trying to sound smarter by adding BS. There’s no difference in Feminism by geography..its only in how far the feminists have managed to use the machinery of the state to implement their ideas. Its all the same drivel.

    1. Der Mac July 24, 2014 at 3:14 am

      Huh?

  51. Peter October 16, 2011 at 1:19 am

    I think the main difference is American feminism is very influenced by black women. White women here get much fatter, are more into alpha males.

  52. Marcus October 16, 2011 at 8:09 am

    @Athlone:

    “That is largely my point. Old school, American style dating (which is dying a slow, painful death in the USA, despite keeping a firm foothold on things) cannot coexist with the tenets of feminism.”

    Fair enough point.

    “In Sweden, it does not have to, because they don’t maintain that system of old school dating anyway. ”

    While the whole dating problem is non-existant in Sweden, because we’ve never had a dating scene per se, we do have a fuck load of other male-female interaction problems related to courting, though there is something which mitigates some of those problems. More on that later.

    “In America, feminists still insist that on keeping the old rules of chivalry/male traditionalism alive even as they move away from traditional feminine roles. This creates problems, which I mentioned.”

    It’s exactly the same here. The “where’s the good men?” and the “what happened to chivalry?” questions are in the media pretty much every day. As I write this, there is a “documentary” on Swedish TV about “women [ugly aging feminist sows one and all] who can’t find _good enough_ men to father their children, and who are therefore going in vitro.”

    Lets go through your list, point by point, to see wether or not they’re applicable to Sweden:

    1. Check.

    2. Compared to the US, fat ain’t a problem here. In my age bracket, 25% of the females ages 25-34 are overweight or fat according to Swedish statistics.

    3. Purty much the same here, though the legal practise surrounding alimony is somewhat different here.

    4. Check.

    5. Supercheck. I have only ever met one young Swedish female who knew how to cook and who also wasn’t a mother. After they start breeding, they tend to learn how to make the swedish equivialent of mac n cheese out of necessity it seems.

    6. Same shit here. “Going on a cruise” or “going to the mediterrainian coast” is girl code for being cum dumpsters for a week or two. We’re not talking “flings,” we’re talking prolific disease spreading.

    7. Check. Do keep in mind that while attractive girls are reasoably thin, not all thin girls are attractive. Plenty fugly hoes here.

    8. Super chique here.

    About the obesity rate; our health care system is very different, and our traditions of out doors life and exercise etc are, though weakening, still quite strong.

    An observation I’ve made, regarding feminists here: They’re either fat, hirsuite (though with short hairstyles,) smelly, jeans clad, and generally disgusting, OR bony, over-dieted, dressed and styled like cheap whores, wrinkly, sagging everywhere (except the silicon boobs,) and generally disgusting. And they’re pretty much always malicious, aggressive, vengeful, psychotic and repulsive, and trying to pass of as “intellectuals” or “entrepreneurs.” Don’t suspect it’s any different in the states.

    “Men there are not forced to deal with the hypocrisy of physically repulsive women asking to be treated as though they were way above the law.”

    Seen a few examples to the contrary, but what’s more important is that females in general ARE above the law here, compared to men. Annoy a female enough, and she can claim “discrimination” or sumthing like that, and the authorities will slap a 5000-60 000sek (700-9000usd) fine on ya (upper range if she’s non-white.) Happens all the time. Funny thing is, females are lower on the “victim ladder” than imigrants, so if women complain about rude behaviour from those, she too can get slapped with the legal stick.

    “Their women may not fit traditional feminine gender roles very well, but they’re also not subsequently asking men to keep filling masculine roles the way many American women do (they’re more likely to pay on a date, among other things). Thus, the guys don’t seem quite as angry, and I don’t blame them. I wouldn’t be either.”

    See earlier post.

    “It has been mentioned before that in Scandinavia and much of the rest of Europe, beta males seem to carry a lot more value. Now, consider that the majority of men everywhere are what you would call beta males, and you have a clearer answer. Swedish women are not quite as hostile to betas, which comprise the majority of the male populace, meaning you will see more amicable gender relations.”

    I have little experience with American women, so I couldn’t say for sure, but judging from what americans write on the net, there may indeed be a higher tolerance for greater betas, though NOT for regular betas or lesser betas. I would theorize that it’s mostly about context. Therein, I think, lies the crux of the matter:

    The thing you need to understand about Sweden, is that courting works differently. Sure, people go to clubs to fuck, and sure, men and women meet “through friends” or at parties etc, but we have something which is very different from most other countries (from what I’ve been told by foreign friends atleast,) and that is the famous/infamous “fika.”

    What is a “fika?” Is it a date? Could be. Is it something you do for fun? Sure, why not? Is it for discussing serious matters, be they business, philosophy, or politics or something else? Certainly. An opportunity for gossip? Relaxation? Eating? Getting your daily caffeine? Meeting other people?

    A fika can be all of the above and more. It can be as ambiguous as you want to make it, or just the opposite.
    It can be ANYTHING, and what it ends like doesn’t have to be what it started like, which is kind of the point. In terms of courting, it can be descibed as a date without any strings attached at all, because it isn’t a date unless you say it is, and no one does that. You try to get a feel for the other person, to see if you could get along or whatever. If it doesn’t work out, no problem! It was just a fika; no big deal. If it works out, then why not go for another, followed by, say, a long walk, or something? Should the walk end in an apartment, where “stuff” ensues… “It just happened! We were just having a fika and then blah blah…”

    If it’s just two people, both sort of have to pay attention, which means less pressure for both. Time constraints can be set in stone, or non-existant, which can be both good and bad. If there are more than two people, most usually already know each other, which means even less pressure.

    Essentially, a “fika” is a quite forgiving activity; it’s hard to fuck up completely, and done right, there is little pressure at all, and lots of potential.

    In the words of a female american exchange student I met last year: “Fika is like nothing else. It can be anything or nothing, depending on what you want for the moment, and it’s so much more relaxed than a date. You Swedes do like strong coffee though.”

  53. Tiger October 16, 2011 at 10:48 am

    I’d rather be a woman living in Saudi Arabia than a man living in Sweden. I’d have more rights and at least be loved by Saudi men who would treat me with the respect and protection that a proper woman receives. Sweden really is worse than Saudi Arabia, I’d call it a female supremacy police state.

  54. Tiger October 16, 2011 at 10:53 am

    In Saudi Arabia, if a man murders his wife, he receives the death penalty, an eye for an eye. In United States and Sweden and the “progressive” West, if a woman murders her husband or child in cold blood, she almost always gets a slap on the wrist. Are women oppressed in Saudi Arabia? If so, their women’s lives are worth more to their society than men’s and children’s lives are to our Western societies as shown by the legal penalties above.

  55. Rudebwoy October 16, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    #54 Tiger – if you lived in Saudi you would get no pussy, it is a musliim country and the women are covered up.

    #52 Peter – Feminism was started by the CIA through people like Gloria Steinem and has nothing to do with blacks. In fact feminism has helped white women the most and has made them feel very empowered, at the expense of having a family they now have corporate jobs.

    #51 Gunshow – my point exactly, why do people talk about a country they have never been too.

    I have met regular dudes in Sweden, trust me they would not trade places with you to live in America, Canada or the UK. I would trade with them in a heartbeat, so who cares if the women don’t let you buy them a meal. They will still sleep with me after one or two dates.

  56. Mighty Mouse October 16, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    The whole argument here is about Athlone’s uninformed comments on Sweden, which is pointless, because it’s so obvious that he has never been to that country.

    I think it would be fair if Roosh would give Athlone the chance to edit his (otherwise good) article with any reference to countries outside of the US to be left out.

  57. magnificent224 October 16, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    @ Rudebwoy is correct, Gloria Stein was used to be the the useful idiot by the C.I.A to promote femi nazis to change and alter the interaction of men and women together for ever and get us at each other throats and have woman thinking that when they fuck a man they are empowered, strong and all that other crock of shit while really they are just putting kilometers on there pussies and man see them as less valuable and more like a piece of meat. Killing the soul really, thats the bottom line.

  58. doesNotMatter October 17, 2011 at 12:23 am

    @ Bateman…..Are those British girls you were talking about in London when you said they seemed to love it when the guys were all over them cuddling etc. They seem more like EE girls. From what I heard, British women are such bitches that they make American women sound like the epitome of politeness. I could be wrong. So could you please clairy this point

  59. Vicious October 17, 2011 at 7:05 am

    Markus/Marcus (he seems confused about his name, can you see the dns origin Roosh?) is really adding to the noise vs. signal ratio here.

    Note how he says “it’s been statistically proven” but have no real sources to fall back on. Half stuff he puts out about Swedish law/economy are just fabrications.

    His first attempt at backing up the claims in his first post is to show a chart about how “A lot of people (swedes) are packing up and moving to other countries”. This charts show how 3000 more Swedes have left the country 2011 then in 2000. When accounting for the population growth that means there are actually more people staying. So, uhh.. thanks for disapproving your own point.

    His second link on affirmative action is a letter-to-the-editor opinion piece (in Swedish). Hardly something that qualifies as support for your statements. The rest of his claims about affirmative action in higher education is pure BS. The times universities have enrolled students with less qualifications but of another gender/race the Supreme court has struck them down. http://www.centrumforrattvisa.se (unfortunately only in Swedish)

    I could go on but I don’t intend to point to every piece of BS Marcus/Markus posts just make it clear that he has some agenda that he’s trying to push. Maybe he doesn’t want Americans coming over here (if he is indeed Swe to begin with).

    By his own admission Marcus/Markus has never been to the US so he has no reference for the feminism we are discussing here. I see this all the time. My countrymen bitching and moaning about girls/feminism without having a clue what the alternate looks like. Being spoiled and complacent is sadly common in a welfare state.

    I also not how Marcus/Markus keeps on about feminisms favourable portrayal in the media. While Swe media is dominated by leftist interest it does not have any impact on the general populace since Sweden is controlled by a right wing government since 2006. Media control is not thought control, if it was then the anti-immigration party wouldn’t have any seats in the riksdag (the lower seat of government, the House).

    Of all the non-Scandinavian posters I’ve talked to on the board (and I recommend the board for these kind of discussions since it allows for greater scrutiny of posts) just about everyone has not noted Scandinavian feminism. The comments are usually about how guys are not as masculine in their dress sense but that’s it.

    In the end I’ll say that Scandinavia feminism definitely does a lot of damage to society but on a macro scale it’s negligible and if you don’t follow the media you wouldn’t even notice it. A lot of girls pay lip service to feminism, and at the end of the night they wrap those very same lips around my cock after I’ve treated her in all the ways she says she don’t want to be treated. Go figure.

  60. Marcus October 17, 2011 at 9:17 am

    @Vicious: Marcus and Markus are two different posters. I spell with a c. Now that the name thing has been cleared up, you can write a proper response. BTW:

    “The times universities have enrolled students with less qualifications but of another gender/race the Supreme court has struck them down”

    That statement shows that you aren’t aware of what’s going on in Sweden. Aren’t you aware of, for example, the business surrounding the police academy? That’s a current issue. The very source you cite says, and I quote: There is reason to suppose that thousands of people [men that is /Marcus] have been subjected to illegal discrimination when they’ve applied to the Police Academy.”

    http://centrumforrattvisa.se/sida/Misstanke_om_olaglig_diskriminering_vid_antagningen_till_Polish%C3%B6gskolan_i_tusent

    “I also not how Marcus/Markus keeps on about feminisms favourable portrayal in the media. While Swe media is dominated by leftist interest it does not have any impact on the general populace since Sweden is controlled by a right wing government since 2006. Media control is not thought control, if it was then the anti-immigration party wouldn’t have any seats in the riksdag (the lower seat of government, the House).”

    If your contention is that “media doesn’t affect the views of swedes that much because the media is leftist and the government isn’t,” then lol, just lol. Du hävdar att du är svensk, och det måste fan vara sant, med tanke på hur taskigt grep du har om vad som utgör “höger.” And if you against the odds aren’t, use google translate on that last bit.

    While the Swedish government _purports_ to be right wing, it is only “right wing” in a Swedish, or if one is feeling generous, a Scandinavian context. Economically, it’s far, WAY far to the left of the US democrats (comparison for the benefit of American readers) and yet, that, and perhaps some parts of its foreign policy, are they ONLY areas where they can concievably be called “right wing.” The Swedish left wings and “right” wings make alot of angry noises when they debate things, but aside from disagreements on specific issues, their policies are largely identical. For example, neither bloc wants the armed forces to be strong, a sterner justice system, tougher/more sane immigration laws/policies, reduced/simplified employment protection laws, etc etc etc. All of those are traditionally considered “right wing” issues, but thanks to the Swedish educational system and the media, most Swedes differentiate between left and right by wether or not they want to raise taxes, and wether they want gigantic, or merely huge, public spending. Simplified, of course, but not excessively so.

    Returning to the issue of feminism in Sweden, specifically in government, as far as I’m aware, all of the Swedish parties in parliment, except for Sverigedemokraterna (the “anti-immigration party” which is a pariah in the parliment) and to a certain degree Kristdemokraterna (Cristian democrats, a minor part of the ruling coalition called Alliansen, which means “The Alliance”) have explicitly said that they’re feminist, or have had highly placed representatives say, on record, that they hold feminist views or that they favour feminist policies.

    I think I’ve made a lapse in stating my intention with participating in this little debate:

    I loathe feminism. I truly do. Feminism has nothing to do with equality. It is all about female dominance and supremacy. To my eyes, it is on par with Nazism, Fascism, and Communism, and “gender studies,” aka genusvetenskap in Swedish, is the feminist equivialent of nazi race studies.

    On that note, I would never consider American feminism or Swedish feminism “good” and therefore “preferable” to the other, just because one is possibly “worse” than the other. Entertaining the possibility that one is preferable to the other, is a relativistic red herring which distracts from the fact that something which may or may not be “better” than something else, can still be, and in this case surely is, pretty fucking bad. Feminism is insidious, and though the intentions of some of its proponents may be good, one needs to remember that it IS an ideology. Ideologies ALWAYS have a logical conclusion which its proponents arrive at sooner or later, and we all know what the logical conclusion of feminism is.

  61. Vicious October 17, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Most of my reply was directed at the previous Markus. It felt far fetched that two alleged Swedes with such similar names and stance find this post. But if that is the case it’s my mistake.

    If you bothered to check the Centrum för Rättvisa site you would see that the supreme court has actually struck down several cases of affirmative action in Swedish Unis. Surely you didn’t miss that? As for the part about police discrimination that’s listed under “pending cases”. So we’ll know the verdict soon enough. Personally I think it’s pointless to comment on pending cases. If the courts lets the practice fly then I will consider it a step back in equality. But I don’t expect it though. My sources at Mannheimer & Swartling (GBG) which provide a lot of the legal power of Centrum för rättvisa has yet to lose one of these cases.

    Now, most of this debate is veering too far into Swedish politics which I’m not going to comment on. I’ve previously been active in politics so I enjoy the discussion but I doubt it really helps the international crowd reading this site. I can say that while feminism definitely influences national politics I would dispute that it has any effect on our everyday life. Entropy, Luckystar, Rudebwoy, Lumiere, GlobalBaller and many other board posters that have ventured to Swe would be the best judges of this. As they’ve had the opportunity to look from the outside in.

    While I understand your absolute viewpoint on feminism you also admit to not knowing American women (and by extension their brand of feminism). I assure you that your sentiment would change if you did. The forum is a great source to start with.

    Athlone based this article in part from a post I made on the forum. If I had the opportunity to edit his article before it was posted I would have been far more careful about separating gender equality from feminism.

  62. Athena October 17, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Why should women learn to cook for you, whore? It’s not like you’re in the market for a wife.

  63. George October 18, 2011 at 3:28 am

    I don’t care what the haters here are saying. Swedish girls are easy, they don’t expect as much, and they look good. What’s not to like?

    Feminism, to me, means women put out easier, and you don’t have to buy them drinks. YMMV.

  64. Brian October 18, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    If a woman is asked by other people if she is going to get married and she says not right now because she is in college or she is starting her career, then those people are fine with that answer. However, I am an alpha man and often people ask me when I’m going to get married (I know enough to not tell most people my personal lifestyle decisions, and especially on the internet where there’s many schmucks except on a few sites such as this where most of us have the same game goals because the majority of people don’t have our mindset and are thus going to criticize/attack the “Inception” of our beliefs and our game objectives to make themselves feel secure in their close-minded construction of limiting beliefs) and once in a while for kicks I honestly say I am never going to get married (I’m never going to hand over half of whatever I have in a divorce) and they are shocked (want what they cannot have) and then I walk away from their weak attempted follow up attacks on my way of life. It appears that there is more on tv about brainwashing people into marriage. Most of the time I usually hear attacks of judgmental disapproving criticisms (and I laugh because I eat disapproval for a snack to make me even stronger) when I state my views that thousands of years ago people did not have to get married (maybe made up by betas to get some) to have sex or that the original Greek word in scripture was incorrectly changed a few hundred years ago into the word fornication thus the original word was not even about pre-marital sex because during that time the original word used was originally about false worship in the temple there, thus their “false fantasy of puritanical/self-righteous religiosity” is their right, but do NOT oppressively try to control/repress my individual free will decisions of being true to my real masculine nature to enjoy living my lifestyle of giving myself and women fun experiences and sexual pleasure. An alpha man does NOT do what betas want them to do, but I also don’t waste my time fighting betas or women because it’s not worth the time I spend doing other actions. The only analogy some people may slightly comprehend to trying to tell an alpha man to not desire pussy, is to tell these women that they can never go shopping for a new purse (gasp), then tell her that her purses are sexy and do her anal.

  65. Markus October 19, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    Vicious:

    “His first attempt at backing up the claims in his first post is to show a chart about how “A lot of people (swedes) are packing up and moving to other countries”. This charts show how 3000 more Swedes have left the country 2011 then in 2000. When accounting for the population growth that means there are actually more people staying. So, uhh.. thanks for disapproving your own point.”

    There is no Swedish “population growth”. That’s why we’re supposed to take in third world immigrants to “save our pensions”, remember? Besides, you asked me for (challenged me even, what did I win?) a single statistic to prove my point. Well, there you have it. Not only are Swedish women not giving birth to enough Swedish children, but on top of that we have a net migration from Sweden as well. That’s also discounting the fact that ethnically non-Swedish citizen’s children are usually counted as Swedish in an attempt to further hide from the Swedish people the facts about how many immigrants actually live in the country.

    “His second link on affirmative action is a letter-to-the-editor opinion piece (in Swedish). Hardly something that qualifies as support for your statements. The rest of his claims about affirmative action in higher education is pure BS. The times universities have enrolled students with less qualifications but of another gender/race the Supreme court has struck them down. http://www.centrumforrattvisa.se (unfortunately only in Swedish)”

    The Discrimination Ombudsman (DO) just recently ruled that they would not investigate the Police Academy regarding affirmative action since it was “not a government agency” – not that that has ever stopped them before – a decision which reeks of PC BS in the name of feminism. Also, that letter-to-the-editor included numbers which are easily verifiable if you’re truly interested in the matter and not just wanting to make a point…

    “I could go on but I don’t intend to point to every piece of BS Marcus/Markus posts just make it clear that he has some agenda that he’s trying to push. Maybe he doesn’t want Americans coming over here (if he is indeed Swe to begin with).” I wonder who is the one carrying the tinted glasses here… your tone leaves a lot to be desired.

    “I also not how Marcus/Markus keeps on about feminisms favourable portrayal in the media. While Swe media is dominated by leftist interest it does not have any impact on the general populace since Sweden is controlled by a right wing government since 2006. Media control is not thought control, if it was then the anti-immigration party wouldn’t have any seats in the riksdag (the lower seat of government, the House).” Now, the Swedish people are as consensus-seeking a people as you’ll ever find, so cultural marxist media + a do-and-think-what-you’re-told people is a deadly combination. Now, that doesn’t mean that people in general will agree with everything the media and the government tells them, but it does mean that they likely won’t say anything about it (“gilla läget”). Besides, any participation in anti-immigration groups or parties can put you in real physical danger (remember the stabbings of SD-politicians last election? Politicians whose homes have been put on fire?) in addition to the social alienation makes sure that many people will just “tighten their fists in their pockets”.

    Besides, in some questions there is a very, VERY, large discrepancy between the attitudes of the people vs the media. Take, for instance, the Social Democrat Reepalu who, a few days ago, said that immigrants should be thrown out of the country if they commited crimes. Media, of course, screamed bloody murder, but the actual attitudes of the people (who the politicians should take into consideration, right…? Heh, yeah, right) shows a different picture: roughly 60% of the Swedish people agree with the proposal. http://www.soc.uu.se/sv/aktuellt/mangfaldsbarometern-2011/

    Sorry about taking up this much space in your commentator field, by the way. As I said, I appreciate what you’re (Roosh) trying to do here and I don’t want to turn this into some kind of “politics-in-Sweden” debate. Most of the west is far fucking out there, degenerated dystopia shit.

  66. cc December 3, 2011 at 4:39 am

    This is why feminism as we know it isn’t actual feminism, it’s just female entitlement.

  67. m July 7, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Sweden is the most sneaky-racist and feminist-dominated country in the history of the world.

  68. Stuff August 14, 2012 at 1:57 am

    Women should neither be looking for someone with a BMI far below theirs, or the same as theirs. A man with a slightly lower proportion of body fat-to-muscle than his woman is as average for a man as she is for a woman.

  69. Joseph October 18, 2012 at 10:46 pm

    Dude. Nice article. I believe in EQUAL rights and feminists don’t want equal rights. They want to be elite.

    1. Michael Wylie October 4, 2013 at 3:56 pm

      I’m very keen to pointing out that feminism isn’t about equal rights, but rather woman’s rights. And that’s fine, but let’s call a duck, a duck.

      When a woman can take the contents of a condom, impregnate herself, and successfully get alimony, the system is rigged. A guy could be forced to pay child support for a kid who isn’t even his, “because it’s in the best interest of the child”..

      And even equal rights isn’t their shtick. Ask any woman working in the adult industry how feminists treat them. And the irony is, the porn industry is the best when it comes to equality for women. I have actually heard feminists say the don’t believe in the Men’s Rights movement. Which address some of the things I mentioned above.

      Very appropriate title.

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  73. Azurite August 17, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Man, let the women look for whatever they want – if they have unrealistic expectations, so what? It’s their own problem if they can’t find someone who is willing to put up with them.

    Last time I checked guys still weren’t being forced into hooking up with women they don’t find attractive, so why do you care so much about the fat ones? Just let them whine, and maybe if they can’t get a decent guy they’ll get a clue sooner or later.

    That’s not a female problem at all – I mean, there also are lots of fat nerds who ogle thin girls because that’s what they find attractive – and usually they don’t get any of those girls as well.

    What I mean to say is: This regulates itself, it’s really not something you need to worry about. You won’t be forced to go out with a fat chick just because she thinks it’s unfair if you don’t.

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  75. sandhya October 21, 2013 at 2:26 am

    i do agree wholeheartedly.. i am a woman and a feminist at that but the reasons that you have stated above are all valid. But this is not what feminism at its core strives for.. we need to refine the system and weed out double standards! female empowerment should not be at the cost of male emasculation

    1. Zelcorpion February 18, 2014 at 5:09 pm

      Good luck with that. Researching the history of the feminist movement you realize that it has been funded by the Apex-Alphas of society! Among others the Rockefellers were responsible for funding the whole movement – in the beginning often employing man-hating women (often lesbians). The reasons for it? Lowering of wages because of women flowing in to the job market (over 90% having crappy jobs anyway), destruction of the family and thus easier indoctrination by the negative school system of the mindless worker-consumer-drone. Apex-Alphas have no need for strong independent males or even thinking! Lowering the wages helps too. And let us not forget the far easier ability to bed young pretty women. Just 100 years ago JP Morgan had to have a full-fledged mistress who was extremely well paid. Nowadays any Apex-Alpha can get Supermodels and 18-year-old beauties for free just by lifting them into their Eyes-Wide-Shut world for a while. Reforming feminism is like reforming Communism or even Libertarianism for that matter.

  76. Teddyb December 16, 2014 at 5:49 am

    Okay. The one about fat girls just made me laugh. Lol.. I’m sorry.

  77. Nancy Marie September 7, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    You are totally making sweeping sterotypes about a vast and variaty of women. Despite America’s superpower status it was recently labeled 26 of the most gender equal nations. A women from NYC may be much more radically feminized then say a women from Tennessee. I am actually not a feminist. I believe women should receive a promotion or a job strictly based on her abilities. Not to fill a quota. Most women over 30 want to be successful in her career. Most want to be treated like a lady. When it comes to dating men a women should be particular about whom she chooses. As she will spend the rest of her life with that man. He better be the right one. The only argument I agree with you on is family law cases. Do not forget it is mostly the middle aged male judge’s that still hold the belief that children need their mothers more so than their fathers. I think custody should be shared unless it is proven one or the other is unfit. Compare the U.S to the more radical feminism movement that is sweeping Western Europe. In Scandanavia, they are talking of taking out urinals in men’s restrooms. the Southern U.S. Is still the most Patriarchal area of Western Europe. In Tennessee it only became illegal to rape your wife a decade ago. In a country with over 300 million people. Please do not show your ignorance by making sweeping stereotypes, Sir.

  78. Nancy Marie September 7, 2016 at 11:18 pm

    By the way, I am a college educated lady. I was married to a Brit for 18 years until his death. I am an excellent cook. My husband never cooked a day in his life. I am certainly not overweight. I am also very feminine and put my family first. It has been 3 years since my husband’s death and I’m still not ready to date. I am only 37. My husband was the head of our family. I was a good wife, best friend, and lover to him and only him. All people have different life experiences and different points of view. I just realized that this is a very old post. Sorry.

  79. patriot156 July 13, 2018 at 2:27 pm

    yeah as Al Bundy used to say they want us to cuddle after sex but still squish their spiders. Cake and eat it too.
    They say they want us to be kind honest and sensitive then screw the first cave man they meet later on BS!
    But yet will turn and screw the beta male when cave man isn’t fulfilling her other needs or demands. “Dishes, housework, taking care of kids etc..” all BS.
    I disagree with the beta remark though at least some, for the remark I just said about screwing the beta male when the cave man don’t do what they want thing.
    Women in the bar will screw the beta when just out for a fling but look to the cave man for kids.
    I for one hate feminism it’s unbiblical and unnatural. Our equality is founded in God not man or woman kind.
    Relationships would last longer and be more fulfilling if women would follow the
    Her body is not of her own, but for the mans, and his body is not of his own except for the women’s.
    This means say yes more stop saying no!
    men cheat far more because the wife or lover is not putting out. It’s not our duty to clean either so stop shaming us by saying “Maybe I’d say yes more if he helped around the house more” BS no you wouldn’t and most women know it.
    People scoff at God and scripture but for the most part men and women have more equality in scripture than they do with the secular world.
    It’s not a women right to say no not when there’s no true sickness or physical reason. It also says not to give power unto Satan which is this very reason: IE “Possible infidelity”.
    Respect boundaries as well. It’s never appropriate and I care less what a secular person will say! It’s never appropriate especially when married for a women to chat online with another man Co-worker etc…
    I care less about the were just friends crap! Don’t do it!
    More relationships are destroyed because boundaries aren’t respected and honored!
    Something to say about the old world being better now eh?