The Hypocrisy Of American Feminism

This is a guest post by Athlone McGinnis.

There is a significant difference in the nature of Swedish feminism versus American feminism: the latter wants to have things both ways (“We’re totally equal but men should still be chivalrous”), while Swedish feminists appear to actually mean equality when they say it.

I don’t think that American men hate feminism in and of itself. The vast majority of American men don’t have a problem with legal and occupational equality for women, but what really irks them is the hypocrisy of it all. The root cause of it is the uniquely arrogant nature of American feminism, whereby women demand more power without any consequences. The basic fundamental nature of these issues is defined by a female desire to have their cake and eat it too.

Consider the following issues:

1. “Manning up.” Females here want to ride the cock carousel in youth while shunning commitment from the beta males who do want it, sometimes outright insulting them. Then they want to age while shaming and harping on them to “man up.” Have cake, eat cake.

How can a man win in this situation? When he tries to be the nice, committed, idealistic romantic that women say they want, he gets shunned. The feminists label him a “Nice Guy” ™, which in their lexicon is code for creepy loser with an agenda. So he is shamed for “manning up.”

Assuming the guy isn’t an idiot, he proceeds to adapt. He learns game, stops taking women out on dinner dates, and keeps things more casual. His success improves. He mans up in a way that women weren’t expecting, but then as he ages, he once again encounters problems. Now those same women who “didn’t want to get serious” suddenly want to get serious. They shunned him for wanting to commit so he stopped committing, and it worked. Now they shame him for not committing enough and failing to “man up.” Since they’re rapidly aging, they want back the cake they ate (read: rejected) in their prime, expecting the former “nice guy” to provide it.

2. Obesity. Fat women in America want to eat however they like and maintain zero impulse control or discipline, but they also want to be treated as though they were fit, cute girls without looking the part. They shouldn’t be called unattractive or unhealthy even though they are unattractive and unhealthy. Have cake, eat cake (literally).

3. Divorce laws. “We as women are entirely equal to men intellectually and socially, but we still want alimony, and will proceed to initiate 75% of all divorces even though we were the ones begging men to ‘man up’ and marry us in the first place.” They beg men to man up, and yet promote a legal system that gives men very little incentive to do so. Have cake, eat cake.

4. “I just want a nice, reliable guy.” After saying this she proceeds to bang the idiotic DJs down the street while ignoring the “nice, reliable” guys she does know. Says one thing, does another. Had the cake, ate the cake. Later on, she’ll wonder where all of the good guys went, and you’ll start hearing her call for her male peers to “man up.”

5. Don’t know how to cook. Roosh mentioned this one on his list of 42 Things Wrong With American Women. Not knowing how to cook isn’t really a bad thing in and of itself. The problem comes when you insert hypocrisy. These same women who lack cooking and other domestic skills (i.e., cannot fill a traditional feminine gender role) expect men to fulfill traditional male gender roles (pay all the bills and be chivalrous). Again, they want to have their cake and eat it too. It is equal when they like it, misogynistic when they do not.

6. Sex Tourist. Women who travel are always “broadening their horizons” and “discovering the world”. Nobody is going to question a woman who wants to take a trip to Latin America for a summer. A guy, though? Probably a sex tourist. Nevermind the fact that quite a few older women travel to parts of the Caribbean trying to “Rent a Rasta.”

Take the movie Heading South as an example, about older American female sex tourists in Haiti sexing up and generously compensating young Haitian teens. It received solid reviews and even a few awards at Venice in 2005. Let’s imagine a movie with a very similar premise except the protagonists this time are American men in the Dominican Republic sexing up teenage girls. How well received do you think that would have been?

7. They have standards way beyond their level of attractiveness. This is another item off Roosh’s list of 42. Fat girls here don’t lower their standards. They do not limit themselves to a guy with a similar BMI. They want a dude with 10-12% body fat, just like every other chick. Yet whenever men complain about not being able to date a woman on their own level, women label their standards “unrealistic” by saying, “Clearly you’re just looking at the wrong girls! Maybe the problem is you!”

Women can want whatever their hearts desire and state it openly, but men are shamed for voicing those same wants. She is free to go on and on about her 400+ point list of requirements (“He’s gotta be at least 6’2″, has to have a masters, must make at least six figures, needs to be handsome”), but when a man starts with his much shorter list (“She needs to be loyal, caring, but I’d like her to also be thin…”), he is a delusional misogynist promoting unhealthy standards of beauty.

8. Cougars. Older women sport-fucking men half their age is fine. Those women are empowered, embracing their sexuality. Who cares if she just hit 40 and the guy is barely old enough to buy alcohol? Now let’s replace the 40-year-old female cougar with a 40-year-old male businessman, and the 21-year-old college dude with a 21-year-old female co-ed. What happens?

Whereas the cougar was “empowered” and not widely criticized for engaging in a relationship with such a huge age gap, he is a “dirty old man”. He is obviously going through a mid-life crisis, even though she clearly wasn’t (and we all know that women hit their sexual prime at 35…right? RIGHT?).

All of this is easy to see through, and that is why men hate it so much. It is just too wildly transparent and self-serving. Equal pay and legal rights are fine, but feminism here isn’t demanding that. It’s asking for female dominance, not equality, and that is somewhat infuriating. Modern, mainstream third-wave American feminism seems to very strongly support, or fail to criticize, these constant double standards. This is why men hate it.

Getting back to the Scandinavian question, Swedish feminists may be outspoken in their demand for absolute equality, but they’re not going to encourage their women to eat and look like land-whales while still nurturing ridiculously high standards for men, which is part of why they have only a 9% obesity rate. Men there are not forced to deal with the hypocrisy of physically repulsive women asking to be treated as though they were way above the law. Their women may not fit traditional feminine gender roles very well, but they’re also not subsequently asking men to keep filling masculine roles the way many American women do (they’re more likely to pay on a date, among other things). Thus, the guys don’t seem quite as angry, and I don’t blame them. I wouldn’t be either.

On another note, American women of all kinds seem to generally maintain a passionate hatred for beta males. This varies somewhat by community (it’s obviously more extreme among blacks, less so among whites and Asians), but it’s there. They are almost universally unwelcome in this society by females.

It has been mentioned before that in Scandinavia and much of the rest of Europe, beta males seem to carry a lot more value. Now, consider that the majority of men everywhere are what you would call beta males, and you have a clearer answer. Swedish women are not quite as hostile to betas, which comprise the majority of the male populace, meaning you will see more amicable gender relations. American women, especially feminists, tend to dislike betas. Thus, you have less amicable gender relations.

Add to this the raw capitalist nature of American relations where so many relationships seem to be about the transfer of status and cash, rather than the more crucial intangible things, and you have a recipe for hostility. The women here never really love the men in the first place, and the men, most of whom are betas, naturally react with skepticism and hostility towards a female populace that is more openly and viciously hostile to betas than others across the world.

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Luckystar
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Athlone…this is your calling my friend.

sharp analysis
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sharp analysis
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Great comparison. But is hypocrisy not a broader US problem rooted in US culture and puritan mentality? how did it get that far? what is the underlying cause to this problem?

Joe
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Joe
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Feminism/Government work together

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Excellent guest post. Does a great job of summing up much of the general theme going through the manosphere these days.

Steven Lurkel
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Steven Lurkel
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Well done. Nice to see your writing outside of the confines of the forum, AM.

Markus
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Markus
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Hello. I like this blog.

Having never been to the USA, but being a Swede (and not one of the “Swedes” who’ve arrived here from the third world in the last few decades) I guess I can chime in.

Sweden has got the feminazi disease BAD. I guess there are quite a few normal women, but our government is infested with radical feminism. The so called “gender-roles” (i.e. masculinity/femininity) are being constantly attacked. Women are to be men, and men women. Affirmative action is rampant in the police force/fire department. Young boys and girls are being indoctrinated in “equality” and “diversity” from the time they are born. The schools are horrible, with a lot of immigrant violence, and home-schooling has recently been made illegal. Free speech exists only on paper. If you speak up against controversial subjects (immigration for instance) losing your job and becoming socially outcast is a real threat.

There are pre-schools where you’re not allowed to use the words “hon” (her) or “han” (him) but instead you are to use the made up word “hen” (since gender is all in the brain, right).

Sweden has become really awful. A lot of people are packing up and moving to other countries just because they can’t stand it anymore. 50% taxes doesn’t help either.

Vicious
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Markus:
Half the stuff you mention is not true.
*The “hen” part was the experiment of ONE preschool.
*I challenge you to provide a single statistic that shows people are emigrating from Sweden.
*Affirmative action in the police force/fire department is a moot point since women still have to conform to the same physical requirements as men.

The other half of your post is a standard “immigration is evil” speech. I am so tired of this rant. It really shows the worst of how spoiled Swedes have become. It always comes from the people who lack any real perspective, whose experiences of living in other countries are restricted to a two week vacation at a resort in Thailand.

Mighty Mouse
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Hey Athlone,

thanks for the article. I have just two questions:

Have you ever been living in Sweden long-term?

Have you ever been there at all?

I can almost predict the answer…

Johnny Milfquest
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Swedish feminism sounds similar to UK feminism.

Over here the women who call themselves “feminists” would get pissed off with the very notion of male chivalry.

“Feminist” means either “fat dyke” and/or “career woman” on this side of the Atlantic.

Der Mac
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Which side is this side?

Anon
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I heard Sweden has castrated their men to the point that Muslims are going around raping Swedish women.

Maybe Tiger Woods can chime in on how Swedish women like to emasculate their men?

But hey, at least they aren’t fat like our women.

JST
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Your articles get better and better Roosh. It’s too bad the mainstream would never accept your material. It would wake up so many men and threaten the feminist monolith.

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A.B. Dada
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This is a fantastic guest post, Roosh. Thanks for posting it.

My general comment is that all of these issues can be handled if a man understands that women are of two minds: the inner brain (“hamster”) that motivate them to do things via action, and the outer brains (“shit-tester”) that motivates them to say things verbally.

I go into greater detail at my own blog: http://www.2abd.com/relationships/relationship-economics/in-response-to-the-hypocrisy-of-american-feminism/

Fredrick
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Sweden is the saudi arabia of feminism. a man can be thrown in jail for not wearing a condom during consensual sex if the woman complains about it to the police. sweden is not an example of “good” feminism as athlone implies. there is no good form of feminism, it is a universal legal and social movement based on women’s entitlement at men’s expense. It is the greatest threat to civilization since Nazism.

Markus
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Vicious:

“*The “hen” part was the experiment of ONE preschool.”

True. But it got a whole lot of attention, and not much of it was bad. Media-wise at least.

“*I challenge you to provide a single statistic that shows people are emigrating from Sweden.”

I hope this works:

http://www.ssd.scb.se/databaser/igraph/MakeGraph.asp?onpx=y&pxfile=tmp2011101416501420BE0101M3.px&PLanguage=1&menu=y&gr_type=1

“*Affirmative action in the police force/fire department is a moot point since women still have to conform to the same physical requirements as men.”

Not true. Women are actively recruited having performed worse than men. Women have lower standards required. Somehow 50% of the new students at the police academy are women, despite only being about a third of the applicants. This is true year after year. And it’s also illegal. If you speak Swedish, here is something to read: http://www.dn.se/debatt/sluta-kvotera-till-polishogskolan

“The other half of your post is a standard “immigration is evil” speech. I am so tired of this rant. It really shows the worst of how spoiled Swedes have become. It always comes from the people who lack any real perspective, whose experiences of living in other countries are restricted to a two week vacation at a resort in Thailand.”

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the people who commit violent crimes in Sweden, and the rest of the west? They’re not usually white. Welcome to reality.

Andy
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Andy
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Great post!A further example to validate the american female delusion

http://www.datemedc.com/2010/12/are-you-strong-enough-to-be-my-man.html

A late 20s DC women who claims that she cannot cook,has no desire to learn,cusses like a sailor and then hopes to find a man who can cook for her.

Surprised at her lack of success in finding a mate (who has to be tall,successfull,goodlooking hah!) she moans about the lack of commitment minded men in US.

Any guesses about her future?

Gosling
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Any opinions on this “feminist dude” Ryan Gosling?

http://www.feministfatale.com/tag/ryan-gosling/

Wolf
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Wolf
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“Once made equal to man, woman becomes his superior.” ~Socrates (c.325 BC) Wisdom never changes.

Alfapet
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“while Swedish feminists appear to actually mean equality when they say it.”

LOL!

“Men there are not forced to deal with the hypocrisy of physically repulsive women asking to be treated as though they were way above the law.”

Men here can get sentenced for rape if the chick you fuck decides — not the day after, not the week after, not the month after — but 8 years (!!) after you’ve fucked her, that no, she really didn’t want to do it after all..

“No forensic evidence was presented in the case as proof that Beltran had raped the girl. Intead the case centred on the credibility of the witnesses and the alleged victim and perpetrator.”
http://www.thelocal.se/9960/20080212/

Gus
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Well, I will speak from whatever little personal experience I have with Swedish women. Just to add, I am not a permanent resident of either of these two countries. Just someone who travels a bit for work.

I have been out on a date with one Swedish woman. Met her at my dance class. She asked me out, and because she had done the asking, on the date she insisted on paying for both of us. In another instance, two Swedish girls that I met at a bar bought me a round of shots. Then we switched bars. At the other place, while I was chilling with her friend, the other girl went to the bar, and brought drinks for all three of us. Mind you, this was a very crowded bar.

To this date, these are the only instances where some girl has bought me drinks or has paid 100% on a date. I have had girls who split the tab on a date before, but never asked me out explicitly or paid entirely on a date.

Nothing even close to this has ever happened with an American woman. So yes, speaking from personal experience, I have a fairly positive view of Swedish women.

Stu
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Sorry mate but you obviously have no clue about Sweden. I’ve lived here for over a decade and don’t recognise your view of the country at all.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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You forgot one:
Want to play in big league careers and yet have to freedom to drop out and play house at their whim, and have the same job waiting for their return, at the employers and coworkers expense. And this behavior should not affect advancement.

Have cake, eat cake.

Steven Lurkel
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from the back and forth between the swedes here, I guess swedish feminism isn’t so great either. still, they’ve got way fewer fatties…and I’ve seen that with mine own eyes.

Anonymous
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No form of feminism is “so great.”

The Swedes, like the rest of us, should be thankful that representatives of more civilized cultures are arriving at their shores, and vastly out breeding them. It’s how evolution deals with dysfunction.

beta_plus
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WIth the exception of divorce laws, all of the above is true for Swedish and Nordic feminism as well.

The only reason for that is that the Nordic welfare state simply strips beta males automatically of their wealth to pay for feminists children, without making them go through the unpleasantness of ever actually having to sleep with them, making the need for unfair divorce laws irrelevant.

Athlone McGinnis
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I am not as familiar with Swedish feminism as I am with its American cousin, that I concede.

This being said, my perception simply was that, while both examples are less than ideal for men, one was certainly better than the other. That is to say, a “lesser evil” of sorts.

So, to sum it up: I never said Swedish feminism is great/ideal, but if you made me choose between it and its American counterpart, it would be my choice. At the bare minimum, I’ll deal with fewer entitled landwhales attempting to justify their lack of attractiveness with ideology, and I won’t be expected to adhere strictly to traditional masculine gender roles while she throws feminine tradition out the window (read: she might actually offer to pay for a date or two). Instead, I get relatively fit women and I’m free to toss masculine responsibilities to the wayside as well.

Come to America, and you will get every downside mentioned here by Scandinavians about Scandinavian feminism (anti-male rape laws, feminism appropriating your money via bureaucracy, etc), coupled with much larger/uglier women and even greater gender hypocrisy (the type that only America’s unique blend of Puritan Calvinism can produce).

That, and American society is almost certainly a worse place to be a beta. You’ll not only be forced to settle with less attractive women than you could find in Scandinavia (thanks, obesity) and deal with gender role double standards (“the man’s gotta pay, but I’m an independent woman!”) but you’ll also be encased in a culture that lionizes the Type-A/Alpha/in-your-face, extroverted persona in men more than any other, a fact that will only make you stand out more for not being that guy.

There is a reason why so many hardened players come out of this nation’s major urban centers(and Toronto, to a lesser extent). Roosh mentioned it here:

http://www.rooshv.com/do-american-guys-have-the-best-game-in-the-world

American gamers are hardened, ballsy and aggressive because America eats betas for lunch. By the same token, Black americans are perceived to have even tougher, sharper and more aggressive game(as Roosh mentions towards the end of that post) because black american women hate (and I mean HATE) betas more than just about anyone else on Earth(and I’m even gonna include other black populations around the world when I say that).

Scandinavia (among other places) is a much friendlier environment for a beta to persist in than America. If I were a beta (read: 80% of men), that is something I’d strongly consider.

No need to take my word as gospel, but I’m fairly certain which poison I’d prefer to swallow (and which one would be less likely to kill me).

All forms of feminism are not created equal, IMO.

@sharp analysis:

“Great comparison. But is hypocrisy not a broader US problem rooted in US culture and puritan mentality? how did it get that far? what is the underlying cause to this problem?”

You guessed correctly the first time. America’s unique historical blend of Calvinist Puritanism is largely at the root of the hypocrisy, which you can see just about everywhere in American culture. Dating is just one aspect of it all.

beta_plus
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@Athlone

First, I want to say that I agree with everything you say about American feminism. I just disagree that Swedish/Nordic feminism is any better.

Swedish and Nordic Feminism only seem slightly less worse than American feminism and easier on Betas until you actually try to make a life for yourself. It’s qualitatively different but in aggregate just as bad as in the US (and I would argue worse because you can much easily move to other parts of the US where things aren’t so bad like the South and the tax burden is lower).

As a tourist with game, Scandinavia comes across as somewhat better because the girls are less fat* than America and are not quite as hypocritical upfront. But you still need world class game to deal with them and they are just as emotionally unpleasant as American women, though in different ways.

Try getting a job there and having to pay into their welfare state, and the real nastiness comes out. They are extremely racist and it’s very difficult to find work as a foreigner unless your are in IT or high finance. If you do manage to get a job but don’t have excellent game for a GF, you end paying a fortune in taxes and get nothing in return, especially if you are already finished with your education and are in good health. Basically, you end paying for a bunch blond blue eyed sluts’ bastard children and they don’t have to deal with the unpleasantness of sleeping with beta you to get your money. While in America this is also somewhat true, being stuck as a welfare mom is a horrific experience and is a lower tax burden for a beta – so you can at least get back at them a bit. Not so in Sweden and the Nordic states.

The face that American feminists fantasize about turning America into Sweden should be a big red flag indicating that maybe it isn’t as nice for betas as you might think.

*notice I said LESS not NOT Fat – their fattiness is definitely comparable to Toronto

P. Bateman
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I’ll chime in. I’ve noticed that “game” as I’ve learned it growing up in North America is not nearly as valuable in most situations all over Europe. I currently live in the UK and have had to adjust to being “nicer” to get better results. In Sweden, my experience is the same as mentioned above. Girls always approaching me, buying me drinks, very pleasant to talk with initially.

Even if you just observe couples in London. Guys are hanging all over their girls…cuddling them…stuff that makes me cringe. But the girls seem to love it here. It’s a strange phenomenon.

I think some people are delving too deep and talking about other consequences of Sweden’s domestic policies (high taxes, etc.). Obviously those are issues. But when you speak with a Swedish gal (or any European girl for that matter) and an American gal there is an extreme difference.

The only bad encounter I’ve had dating women in the UK (so far) was with a Canadian girl who was playing the usual tricks I’m more familiar with.

No doubt not all women like the “nice guy” in Europe (nobody likes a doormat no matter where you live) but, for me anyways, I get a lot further acting “nicer”. Back home? Forget it. Had to be a major arsehole on a consistent basis. There’s a difference in their attitudes and behaviour. This article sums up what I’ve believed, and many readers of this blog, for years.

Macizo
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@ ROOSH

I agree with #13, “there is not good form of feminism” Not in USA or anywhere!! … We have had that clear for a while already, and most of us agree that it sucks in whatever flavor it comes.

Now my question … When are going to leave behind your comfort zone in Poland? and “man up” 🙂 to conquer new territories and challenges in EE? … We would like to hear your reports and experiences from other countries in that area….

Donkey_puncher
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I agree with most of these points. Good article.

OGNorCal707
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Great post Athlone, you do an amazing job of breaking down the mentality of the American woman.

I can see how some are busting your balls with the Swedish comparison, but I appreciate the spirit of the point you’re trying to make.

You’ve proved yourself to be extremely intelligent, articulate, and analytical. You could be an excellent blogger/author if you choose to.

Keep up the good work brotha.

I Hate Fat American Women
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Absolutely fucking right!! You totally nailed it with your post. American women…. PUKE!!!!!!

duhduh
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I like how vicious is implicitly disproving his own point with that swedes got spoiled comment. Yes, swedes got spoiled THE OTHER (non-hypenated) SWEDES that’s what we’re trying to say.

duhduh
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EDIT:

I like how vicious is implicitly disproving his own point with that swedes got spoiled comment. Yes, swedes got spoiled BY THE OTHER (non-hypenated) SWEDES that’s what we’re saying.

Gort
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I like pie…

samseau
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Decent summary. I’m not sure why people say American women don’t pay. Every woman I’ve dated this year has split the bill. Many of them have bought me drinks too.

tomtud
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Sooo true… Women I have noticed have sex way more than men… For example in Cuba, the women tourists I would always see hanging with the local men etc. Yet, I would not see tourist men hanging with the local women…. Cuba is a bad example as there are double standards where a local man can talk to a tourist, while a female local may get into trouble…

Anyhow, women in the west tend to abuse all the hard work the feminists have fought for many many years ago. As well, I can blame all the men who say they need a “pass” from the wife to go out… WTF??? a grown man needs permisssion from the wife??? c’mon!!! Beta men !!!!

Guys have a backbone,, tell the woman this is how its gonna be or hit the road… Its not natural for a man to “nest” like a woman. However, it is natural for a man to conquer and spread his sperm…. The king of the jungle, the lion has his harem… Time for some men to act like a king, not a wussy!!!

Torontokid
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@beta_plus

The Swedish are nowhere as fat as Toronto girls.

Don’t get me started, tonight I was hanging out with my friends(they were with girls) and this fat chick kept grabbing my hand.

There are like 5 times more fat chicks in Toronto compared to Stockholm(thats conservative).

I’ve been to Stockholm, it murders Toronto.

viking
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Guys, its s nice getting together here to complain about those fat ladies that surround us. But is there any future for women in the US? The idea that our folks will have to live with fat creatures is just depressing to me. Maybe some vikings should come here to conquer our land and women? maybe bringing loads of Latin ladies from Medellin?

P. Bateman
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Tomtud makes a good point. Too many men in North America have let women get away with these attitudes. Every married guy I know acts like a doormat.

Contrast that with the North American men I know who are married over here in England. They party harder than myself and they are a decade (sometimes two) older than me. Their wives don’t hassle them.

If a woman knows you are still going to marry her even if she doesn’t bring anything to the table other than the same vagina to bed every night, then they aren’t going to change. I think the tide is changing but very slowly.

Look at American tv. Shows like “How to be a Gentlemen” are being brought to market. I recall a lot of serious dramas in the 80s that depicted physical abuse towards women. I grew up with this being drilled in my head. The same serious approach should be taken with men who are acting like wussies…but it’s not, it’s considered comedy in America.

Naughty Nomad
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Great Article.
It got me sufficiently riled up – and don’t even live in the U.S

Marcus
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“Their women may not fit traditional feminine gender roles very well, but they’re also not subsequently asking men to keep filling masculine roles the way many American women do (they’re more likely to pay on a date, among other things).”

False analogy regarding the dating, because [American style] dating is a marginal phenomena in Sweden compared to in the US. The closest thing to dating Swedes engage in, is “fika,” which isn’t really comparable. Also, Swedish females DO demand that males fill all the masculine roles, when it suits the females of course… Men are free [and expected] to do all the underpaid, dangerous and disgusting things. Females in general just want to do the glamorous stuff. When the shit hits the fan though, the women are nowhere to be seen.

“…the guys don’t seem quite as angry…”

Most, or atleast part of that comes from the feminist indoctrination Swedish males have had to contend with for the past 30+ years, the point being that most of us Swedish males don’t even notice the oppression we’re subjected to any more, except in over the top obvious cases, such as lower standards on physical tests for females (pretty much everywhere they’re required.)

When I went through basic education, which was more than 10 years ago, I remember the extreme focus that was given the girls, in EVERYTHING. It’s way worse now. Not too long ago, a study concluded that Swedish females are given preferential treatment with regards to grades, and that it’s been going on for a loooooong time.

In fact, Swedish females are given preferntial treatment in pretty much all contexts:

Law wise: Less harsh, if any, punishments than males for equivalent crimes; HUGE advantages in child custody fights, among other things (I could go on, and yes, there are stats that prove all my claims.) If you only knew what a degrading experience it is to get fathership registered in Sweden; details of treatment aside, if a woman says you’re the dad, refuting that is a loooong, expensive and painful process. If she denies that you’re the dad, even though you are, you essentially have no way in hell to actually claim your rights of fatherhood.

Economy wise: Swedish men pay on average 55% more taxes than females, but the average pay of men is NOT 55% higher. In fact, it’s statistically been proven, that all things being equal other than gender, there is no difference between male and female earnings here.

Most of the social care payouts go to females, and the general child care payout goes to females by default, not to both parents. Etc etc.

Health wise: Most of the health care system is geared towards female needs (higher mortality among males in pretty much all applicable cases) and docs are much MUCH more prone to initiate treatments for females, and grant sick leave to females (the are statistics that prove this,) etc etc. Again, I could go on.

Employment wise: Females get first dibs on on career positions in most companies due to threats of affirmative action etc. State employers are even worse.

Education wise: Lots of universities and colleges discriminate against men in order to get more females on their courses. On all levels of education, females get almost all of the encouragement and assistance per default; males are expected to take care of themselves. On all all levels, feminine behaviours and strategies of learning are encouraged, while masculine behaviours and strategies of learning are discouraged.

I could go on and on and on…

Sweden is a country where numerical equality is touted as the optimal state of things, WHEN FEMALES ARE IN MINORITY.
When males are in a small majority, say 52%, it’s derided as “gubbvälde” which is a derogatory term which loosely translates as “the rule of old, disgusting [white] men.” When numerical equality between men and women is reached, it’s “not enough,” and “more can be done.” When females are in majority however, even complete majority, like 3/4 majority, it’s celebrated as being “the peak of equality,” but sometimes, even that isn’t enough. I know of cases where females have 90% of the positions, and STILL females are given preferential treatment during recruitment etc, accompanied by the usual shouts of “discrimination against women.”

Like Assange said, “Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism.” Men in general here are so very very whipped that they barely know any other state of being. Many of those who ARE aware, just give up to ennui, because the deck is so completely stacked against them. Also, leading male politicians and media personalities have been demonizing men for years here. Stockholm syndrome, anyone?

I could go on for hours.

samseau
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Marcus pretty much destroys the myth of Sweeden being a “better” feminism.

Great quote from Assange, btw. The laws in Sweeden are outrageous. Sweedes not being fat is probably because they do not have a car culture.

beta_plus
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@TorontoKid

I’m 1/2 Danish and have been to Sweden plenty of times. Scandinavia has fat chicks, and if don’t have game it can feel like they are all fat.

If you look at the stats, Sweden is only about 5% less than Canada overall. That’s still plenty of fat chicks. I also wonder if that considers margins of error and different metrics.

It’s easy to get blinded by the blond hair and blue eyes and forget that if they weren’t that, they wouldn’t be nearly as hot.

Falcon
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Western society is going down the drain.

Rudebwoy
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Nice writing style Athlone and I notice no one is arguing what you wrote about USA.

When was the last time you were in Sweden or have you EVER been?

I think it is harsh to say most Swedish men are Beta’s, I would argue that most American men are beta’s too.

Torontokid
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@beta_plus

Nah, man. The number of fat chicks in Scandanavia are way less, unless they all go into hiding during the summer. And if they do thats not a problem.

Obesity rates lie, unless they are broken down by age and gender.

I’m sure Rudebwoy will agree, obesity in Toronto is far more prevalent.

Torontokid
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@beta_plus

Also, Canada is a whole has a low obesity rate. I’m talking about Toronto. I see lots of huge whales here each day in the subway.

Athlone McGinnis
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@Rudebwoy: “I think it is harsh to say most Swedish men are Beta’s, I would argue that most American men are beta’s too.”

Here is what I actually wrote in the blog entry(direct quote, capitals for added emphasis):

“Now, consider that THE MAJORITY OF MEN EVERYWHERE are what you would call beta males, and you have a clearer answer.”

Betas are humanity’s baseline. The majority of men in all places (Scandinavia, Jamaica, or the USA, doesn’t matter) are betas. This is why the 80-20 rule with regards to female hypergamy exists to begin with, and can be seen in action all over the place (though it is admittedly more exaggerated in some places than others).

Women are naturally hypergamous, and only a small portion of any given male population in any given part of the world can easily satisfy that hypergamy (and, by extension, consistently attract multiple high quality female suitors). The men who can’t (read: most of them) are betas.

@marcus: Most of the factors you listed exist in the USA as well…except here you’ll have much bigger and uglier women forcing them on you. As for this:

“False analogy regarding the dating, because [American style] dating is a marginal phenomena in Sweden compared to in the US.”

That is largely my point. Old school, American style dating (which is dying a slow, painful death in the USA, despite keeping a firm foothold on things) cannot coexist with the tenets of feminism.

In Sweden, it does not have to, because they don’t maintain that system of old school dating anyway. In America, feminists still insist that on keeping the old rules of chivalry/male traditionalism alive even as they move away from traditional feminine roles. This creates problems, which I mentioned.

One side is demanding the following of one general set of rules for everybody (no old school dating period). The other is creating two entirely separate and incongruent playing fields in an attempt to straddle two disparate eras in time at once (we’re moving away from traditional gender relationships and freeing things up…but we want traditional dating!).

I still pick the Scandinavian poison personally, but that’s just me. I hate fat women and hypocrisy, and both are in slightly shorter supply over there.

@beta_plus:

The Candian obesity rate is about 24% (add 10 more points to get the American rate, 34%).

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/03/03/obesity-rate-higher-canada/

Sweden’s rate is about 9%.
http://cycling.lohudblogs.com/2008/12/15/obesity-rates-lower-in-nations-that-bike-walk-and-use-mass-transit/

I’m sure there are big women in Sweden, but we’ve got many more of them here in North America (over twice as many in Canada, more than three times as many here in the USA). That isn’t debatable-Swedes are just not as big.

Theodora
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saw this and thought of roosh:

The driving force behind seeing patterns where there are none is hidden in the mists of natural selection. We’ve evolved to see patterns and this natural tendency often leads us to see many false causal connections. The main driving forces behind superstition are ignorance and fear of the unknown or unpredictable. Superstitious beliefs give us the illusion of control over events that we don’t understand. With our superstitious beliefs and practices, we try to control things that aren’t even known to be controllable.

http://www.skepdic.com/superstition.html