The Manosphere Is Lost

I just finished listening to a manosphere radio show that features a prominent blogger. His co-host is… a girl. I’m supposed to see value in her sharing thoughts on men’s issues, yet instead I’m disturbed at the platform she was given. I believe this is the exact moment that the manosphere has jumped the shark, where I’m now embarrassed to be a part of it. I predict within a couple years, the word “manosphere” will attract as much stench as the word “PUA.” There are two reasons for it: (1) The arrival of geeks who have no game, and (2) The infiltration of women.

There were three guys who first noticed this decline: Bronan, Danger & Play, and Nate. They mocked the “manospambots,” their obsession with the concepts “hypergamy” and “solipsism,” and their flocking to a community not for their own betterment but to rationalize their failures. Many of these new arrivals are married and so have a natural hostility to game and the bachelor’s option to sleep with more than one woman per year.

Take a look at the word hypergamy. Psychological studies now show that a man’s use of this word is highly correlated to not getting laid. And yes, the ability of a man to lay a woman is, for better or worse, a reliable indicator of his value. If you don’t agree with that then I think we all know why. The guys who have a tendency to use manosphere jargon are socially awkward in real life, similar to how PUAs of the previous decade who used acronyms like DDBL and FMAC didn’t actually know how to pick up. If a man doesn’t get laid, or doesn’t at least put in sustained effort, he has no business complaining about women on the internet. Bitterness is not a substitute for experience.

My position in the sphere insulated me from taking the criticisms of Bronan, D&P, and Nate seriously, because as a manosphere elder I did want it to crush feminism and so on. I closed my eyes to a lot of what was going on. The Mark Minter affair, however, made me realize that this community is turning into one of pussy beggars, nearing the level of men’s rights activists. It wasn’t Minter himself that made me come to this conclusion, but the reaction to his fall.

I hate to beat an old horse, but you could not find a man in America more against marriage than Minter. If you google “hates marriage more than anyone in the world,” your browser would crash, the lights would flicker, and Minter himself would knock on your door, demanding you sign a binding contract to never marry a Western woman. And what did he do? He put a ring on a manosphere groupie that he may not even have banged yet. Surprisingly, the response from a large part of the sphere was to defend or congratulate him. Dozens rose up to argue that it’s not necessary to practice what you preach, that it’s okay to be a keyboard jockey, and that it’s fine to play make-believe. Nah, I don’t play that—I never have and I never will. I don’t want to be a part of any community that defends phonies, because it’s obvious those defenders are envious of Minter’s grand score and are actively trying to get laid by a 30-something manosphere broad themselves.

The flood of these beta males, who have never approached a woman in their lives, coincided with the arrival of women. It’s known that women try to poison places where men congregate, but trailing them was a long line of beta males and white knights who are desperate for their attention. It becomes a feedback loop where the arrival of women encourages more weak men to follow which then encourages even more women to come. Instead of keeping them out, some manosphere veterans are welcoming them with open arms. There is a large subset of men who now participate in the sphere primarily to get female commenter attention. It’s pathetic. The manosphere used to be full of Biggies and Tupacs—now everyone is tripping over themselves to be Drake, blogging and commenting in the hopes they may get laid. (I apologize in advance to the large number of neo-Nazis in the manosphere for comparing them to a man of non-Aryan race.) It’s hard for me to accept that the manosphere is well on its way to becoming a match.com for old people who hate blacks.

In December I made the following prediction:

Only now do I now foresee what my prediction entailed. First, it’s important to understand that the mainstream cannot publish dangerous ideas. They must be sanitized beforehand. Men’s rights victims—I mean activists—are getting some mainstream exposure right now. Do you know why? Because their movement is impotent. It’s safe. Their mention in articles is mainly a vehicle to publish feminist talking points and inoculate the masses against their whining. And when the spotlight was moved onto this side of the sphere, who did it shine on? A married woman named Dr. Helen. She made the media rounds to cash in on a book which “borrowed” the ideas we have been masticating on for over five years. You’d think there would be outrage, but there was congratulations instead. She was looked on as a savior who may help us get more traffic to our blogs, a trailblazer that would bless us with exposure in the Huffington Post and The Atlantic. How sad is it for a community to decry white knighting but seek one in a married woman? I will never let a woman speak for me or the community I’m a part of, and the only way to ensure that is not to be a part of one where men are rushing to munch the carpet of an elderly woman in her 60s.

At its peak, the non-MRA portion of the manosphere excelled at teaching men how to get laid while laying down Chris Brown-style pimp slaps on feminists. It was great: guys were simultaneously sharing important knowledge and making the world a better place. I’ve happily met over 200 of my readers by now, but I wouldn’t dare meet a lot of these fat old dudes who are the fastest growing segment of the manosphere today. It’s one thing to complain about having to work hard to improve your station, but it’s another thing to complain while hoping to bang a female manosphere commenter who is a 4 on her best day. The worst part of it is that guys are drooling over old manosphere women who are already married. I don’t associate with these people in real life, so why would I do so online?

Don’t read the writings of men who don’t get laid. If a man can’t solve the challenge of getting his dick wet, he’s a poseur and internet warrior. He’s a bloviator, a troll. Don’t read the writings of men who don’t know how to walk up to a woman and start a conversation. Don’t read the writings of men who lavish attention on female commenters, because if he was getting laid in real life, he wouldn’t even notice them. Game is an obligatory pursuit for the Western man in 2013, and if he is not pursuing it, he’s not someone worth listening to. He’s weak and scared. He needs to talk to women instead of spending hours a day nurturing his beloved manosphere personality. His world view, contaminated by a lack of female intimacy, will lead you down the wrong path. These fools have tainted a community of men that exclusively stood for getting laid and spreading truth, but now rushes to pardon obvious fakes like Minter.

At risk of sounding dramatic, I’m stepping away from the manosphere. I don’t want to be associated with a community I’m finding increasingly hard to identify with. I can’t control what other people do on their sites, but I can control what happens here, on the forum, and on ROK. I will gleefully ban all women, keyboard jockeys, and whiny divorced men. For as long as I’m alive, my sites will remain a place where men can be unapologetically male. The manosphere, sadly, is no longer that place. It had a good run, but it’s time for something purely masculine to rise up in its stead.

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Manospambot No. 138
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Manospambot No. 138
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“Neo Nazis”

Again the straw man sophistry. Deep down, you’re just another leftist.

MattC
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MattC
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People are actually writing comments and engaging in comments to initiate faceless women in the hope of getting laid? Christ.

I’ve slowly been disassociating myself with the manosphere too over the past few months. Too much of it these days is about battling feminism and political discussion, neither of which interest me. Even on the forum, I question what guys actually have value besides being internet warriors, and you can see bitterness in a lot of people.

I don’t actively read much on the manosphere these days, I just stick to detailing my life on my blog and reading very few others that I can relate to. I suggest you do the same and worry about your own affairs, as I’m sure you are.

Ruxman
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Ruxman
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And just when I thought the manosphere was becoming a little repetitive.. things move quick in this corner of the web.

K-hole
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K-hole
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The average heartiste commenter sounds like he doesn’t have any game. Looking at the things they write (and the way they’re written) it makes me think, “Do you even approach, bro?”

Manosphere commenters seem way too uptight these days. Way too straight-laced. If it wasn’t for you and degenerates like delicious tacos, I wouldn’t read blogs at all.

Aretijgfhb
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Aretijgfhb
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Beta males and geeks are the ones buying your books, giving you page views and passing on your work to people outside the manosphere.

You may not like the direction it’s going in, but it will make you a wealthier man.

Mike Doe
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Mike Doe
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What worries me more than the influx of beta males and women is that young men have now lost a genuine place that encourages positive masculinity.

Now it’s mostly fucking bullshit drama and empty posts, devoid of any real meaning.

The manosphere was never perfect, I assume most developed their own opinion after a few months and agreed to disagree on marriage, quality of girls, life philosophies etc.

Most people can’t even think for themselves today.

“BUT THE AUTHOR JUST SAID IT’S BETA IF I DO X!”

“BRO I’M FUCKING DARK TRIAD, I CAN’T WAIT TO BE A CUNT TO THE NEXT BITCH I MINDFUCK INTO A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP”

Sign me up for the next phase of this, whatever it may be.

droid
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droid
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Do not read the posts of combative, ignorant noobs on RVF who won’t answer to factual, sourced rebuttals.

droid
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droid
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4 K-Hole: agree. heartiste might be a joke site run by frat girls dealing with Roissy wannabes that pop up like VC everywhere they turn.

droid
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droid
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*sorority

typo bc I assume the writers and readers there imagine themselves as belonging to alpha alpha alpha

Stratton
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Stratton
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I’m married and I noticed the decline. It’s not just the whiners. It’s also the unbelievable standards and numbers bots. Dudes online 24/7 and maintaining harems of perfect tens. Yeah, okay.

Dr. Illusion
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When I first discovered the Manosphere, I thought it was all about self improvement and learning the truth about human nature, and how to use that knowledge for our own ends.

Now a lot of it is wallowing in self pity and blaming every problem in the world on women/hypergamy. I just avoid the BS whiny blogs and focus on the good stuff.

I don’t think you can really escape the manosphere, unless you stop blogging altogether or blog under a new name without letting anyone know.

mina
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mina
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I was shamed, denigrated and got a whole lot of limp-wristed white knight behavior from a popular manosphere blogger as a response to my suggestion that his “manosphere forum” if not exclude women at least create a mens-only section for the men.

I agree with you, whole heartedly. I participate only occasionally on topics that I think I can actually contribute something to the conversation.

Other than that I just like to read and learn about how men think.

It’s certainly a hell of a lot more productive and interesting than learning about women think – nuff said.

Tampa
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Tampa
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I think all these blogs have gotten away from talk of theory and field practice….ie..tips on how to get laid and how to open and close women and now got into these long ramblings about social justice and theory.

I think your blog has gone down that road a little too.

I’ve been reading this blog for about 12 years and what brought me here was the fresh IN-FIELD prespective of you. I still think some of your best stuff is from your DCBachelor days. I’m with you though – tired of talking about theory and want more of in-field synoposis and insight.

We need to get back to basics.

LaM
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LaM
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Funny to post that while at the same time you have ROK bloggers going on and on about how “way too valuable” their time is while posting rant after rant of piss-poor content (poke McQueen, so rich he is selling ebooks on the net).

The keybooard alphas are on ROK as well.

I have tried ROK a few times, there isn’t much beyond the punchlines. and I really hope the life of commentators is 10% as awesome as they pretend it is.

ffolkes
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ffolkes
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Very cheeky.

Drano
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Drano
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You’re just as guilty as Donlak and others. You’re the one who let girls write posts on RoK and then gave shit to all the commentators that told you it was a bad idea.

Fortunately you’re getting your barrings back and see what the sphere truly is. Funny thing is the sphere hasn’t changed much at all since the early days, it’s just larger now.

Superfreak
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Superfreak
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One whiner pseudo-white knight ruined it all? Really. Come on, I’ve learned great things from valuable angles in your publications, but recently you seem to have lost interest in scoring. Not gonna guess or suppose why, but don’t find scapegoats to blame your disinterest in.
If you’ve reached an age where for some reason banging has lost its priority, move on. Find something else. Heck, write about it.
In my view, at nearly 50, it’s still the same deal; to not let fembots rule it all, and to glean pleasure from the cutest’s company.

Premature E
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Premature E
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I dont read any of that manosphere crap anyway but yeah roosh i think you should monitor ROK more closely…. sometimes it’s like reading mainstream over there

Capitalist Pig
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Capitalist Pig
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The answer to this to charge for the content. The fat old guys and women won’t bother if they have to pay and the serious men will happily pay for the content as long as you price it right. All of the best manosphere writers should be charging for access to the content you publish.

Jim
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Jim
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You answered your own question.

“A married woman named Dr. Helen. She made the media rounds to cash in on a book which “borrowed” the ideas we have been masticating on for over five years. You’d think there would be outrage, but there was congratulations instead. She was looked on as a savior who may help us get more traffic to our blogs, a trailblazer that would bless us with exposure in the Huffington Post and The Atlantic. How sad is it for a community to decry white knighting but seek one in a married woman?”

“Don’t read the writings of men who don’t get laid. If a man can’t solve the challenge of getting his dick wet, he’s a poseur and internet warrior. He’s a bloviator, a troll. Don’t read the writings of men who don’t know how to walk up to a woman and start a conversation. Don’t read the writings of men who lavish attention on female commenters, because if he was getting laid in real life, he wouldn’t even notice them.”

If men go out into the MSM and try to explain it, won’t they themselves be thought of as the paragraph up above? Thing is the MSM is setting up the manosphere as a rag tag collection of exactly just that. No one is realizing it just yet.

Deebos
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Deebos
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Anywhere men congregate is bound to fall if given over to Western ideals. Western ideals cannot tolerate anything that is exclusive to men, particularly when the stated goal is toward self improvement or equalization of the dating playing field. Sadly, the decline is typically due to men not living according to their own moral code but rather chasing what is popular, gives you more street cred, or makes you “appear” that you’re the man. Appearance, rather than being…ring a bell Mark? Including women only contributes to chasing the popularity contest and the flashiness of fake. Men of character have never been concerned with these things, the chase is the goal, the seduction of beautiful women the reward.

The Private Man
Guest

Yo Roosh, do what you must. I’ll keep on doing what I do because I’m still a Manosphere guy.

‘Cuz I’m old and shit.

Hipstersstink
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I still can’t understand how someone meets and marries a girl via comments on a blog?? Or how / why you would consider it as an option (unless she’s hot and just wants to bang and appearance is verified in advance, then MAYBE)?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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meanwhile the fem-o-sphere also seems to be melting down pretty spectacularly with the hugo schyzer thing

also in addition to roissy’s commenters, a lot of his posts read like someone who has never talked to a girl

AudioRebellion
Guest

It almost seems like we are on the loosing side a war of attrition…

I’m with Roosh in saying women have no place here. Call me what you like but everytime you add a female into a male on situation you have attention whoring at it’s basic level.

“look at me, i’m a woman”

The shit has to go…

I just ignore any blogger who willingly incorporates a female into his voice to the manosphere.

pm
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pm
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Yeah, always suspected that readership of some blogs must be full of losers. Because neo-nazis aren’t usually exactly winners.. heh

Laguna Beach Fogey
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Apology accepted.

The thing I find most aggravating about the Manosphere is that these guys talk way too much. They just won’t shut the hell up. I’ve always found this trait surprising (and telling), given how much aloofness and self-control are prized in the community. Honestly, for these guys, 90% of life must consist of shooting their mouth on the InterWebs.

I think the Manosphere jumped the shark when Matt Forney shut down In Mala Fide and came out as the face, as it were, of the Manosphere.

God help you if someone like that becomes your spokesman.

lol

Edward Thatch
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Edward Thatch
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I like this, Roosh. I’m glad you’re keeping watch. Young men who are 10 years old right now will need a place like this when they get older.

I’m glad Nate told me to read this. I’ve been slacking on my Manosphere reading lately.

-Thatch

N
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N
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“And yes, the ability of a man to lay a woman is, for better or worse, a reliable indicator of his value.” erm,no?Sure its a good thing and important in your well being but an indicator of value?So you think all the scientists who invented something,those who brought this world here,who actually did something constructive,added something to society were all of less value than you,a guy who erm,fucks women and live in cheap appartments?This makes a lot of sense buddy.

Omega Man
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Omega Man
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The PUA/game business has always been pretty long on hype and promises and short on useful information. It became sort of a joke a few years ago. That its clichés are now something see occasionally in low comedy is indication of the powerlessness of the typical man. The only real game is serious, long-term self-improvement.

TGL
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TGL
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Nice marketing ploy to differentiate your blog from others as the ‘manosphere market’ starts becoming saturated.

Lone Wolf
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Lone Wolf
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” …envious of Minter’s grand score and are actively trying to get laid by a 30-something manosphere broad themselves.” If so, very sad.

“It becomes a feedback loop where the arrival of women encourages more weak men to follow which then encourages even more women to come. Instead of keeping them out, some manosphere veterans are welcoming them with open arms.” not vets at all, just old.

“There is a large subset of men who now participate in the sphere primarily to get female commenter attention. It’s pathetic. The manosphere used to be full of Biggies and Tupacs—now everyone is tripping over themselves to be Drake, blogging and commenting in the hopes they may get laid.” Very good analogy Roosh!

It’s difficult to get a group of strong men together outside of manosphere topics. So to do so within the realm of bettering game is equivocally difficult, if not more. The best that can be done is filtering. Potency is the key, not mass numbers. Maybe the manosphere per se, is really not what you’re a progenitor of Roosh, or better termed something else.

unpluggedbeta
Guest

I look up to you Roosh; if you say these guys are out to pollute my pursuit of Game by corrupting my thoughts with urges to pathetically White Knight “manosphere women,” then I want nothing to do with them. Thank you for bringing this up so I can avoid their loser whining. I spent the majority of my life like them and I’m trying to break out; I don’t need them attempting to drag me back in and erase all of my progress towards pussy paradise.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Although I respect Roosh, I think this persona he has taken on that women are the root of all evil is terrible for the manosphere.

This post also gives off a vibe of prima dona… “I am leaving because this community has five women in it” is NOT a good attitude for young men to swallow.

geo
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geo
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perhaps the ‘manosphere’ was doomed to ridicule when that label was adopted. It triggers the painful memory of sensitive naked man drum circles of the late 80s among other things (insert soci-linguistic theory citing Wharf).

And lately the ‘manosphere’ is drawing more angry people. Instead of “staying for the culture war” now they’re arriving for the culture war. Too much negativity and men who see themselves as victims. Who would want to be associated with male victims of anything…other than other male victims.

Seems the pure “game” bloggers that avoid the culture war thing (e.g. Tyler Durden, Juggler, Neil Strauss) are not that mainstream. They’re doing the lord’s work but are not paragons of masculine leadership. Bravo may be doing a better job..though I’ve yet to spend much time on his site.

Under the radar is unfortunate because men learning game can be immensely positive for both sexes and these men know how to provide tacit leadership when required. But the science, like evolution, makes people uncomfortable so under the radar it will likely remain.

seems like your head may be heading to a dark place …. don’t forget that people have improved their lives both as a result of this website and by your example of seizing control of your life trajectory

keep it positive and your legacy can be a generation of fathers who teach their sons about game and they will stand apart from sensitive hipster types and provide the type of masculine leadership this country will need.

Ok,back to work. I have a job

Krauser
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Krauser
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Ironically, your “leaving the manosphere” is really just setting up a new manosphere like it used to be before the gimp/tart invasion.

And seeing as you control probably 50% of total manosphere traffic these days this new version will succeed. Good idea I think.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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28N : Of course you can’t give the value of a man solely by his ability to lay women, but it can still give you an idea. A good part the skills needed to lay women are the same needed to succeed in other parts of life.

Most CEO’s, senators and other men with prestigious postitions would have no problem laying women (even without mentioning their job or flaunting money). And those who have insane game often have the skills land a well-paid job if they want to put effort into it.

Sam Spade
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Sam Spade
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So quit bringing up this Minter guy. He is one man – who cares? He single-handedly turned the manosphere into a silly imitation of Jizzabel feminists, wasting time excommunicating one person as an example to all.

Rod
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Rod
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I love your work roosh but …

You are also the man that went public on Eastern block tv shinning a Light on the game culture and drawing more attention to men that travel abroad to bang hotter / more feminine chicks .. Yes the manosphere has in effect gone mainstream .. I agree with you and I hate it but lets not forget who MAY have helped push it in that direction ( in the eastern block at least )

Sorry bud . Still a fan tho

Dude
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Dude
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Your right .. Women infest man orientated things be it hobbies / jobs whatever because they are too lame to have their own . Even charity things like Movemeber ( man cancer charity ) is a constant outlet for female attention whoring going out wearing fake moustaches etc . Fuck them . They have enough chick charities of their own but oh no they need to creep into ours aswell . I hate it .

Roosh . you stay true .. Fuck the sell outs and the pussy beggars . Keep going and keep the faith .

jm074
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jm074
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The parasites have latched on.

Hipstersstink
Guest

Haha to the Dude – good call on the Movember thing. I noticed that this past year. Girls wearing fake moustaches at a Movember event in a bar. So annoying. Because just being a girl in a bar full of dudes wouldn’t bring you enough attention?

Anon
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Anon
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Roosh, i see what youre saying, but i think your aim is off. For instance you aren’t dr Helen’s target audience. Her book was written for all the clueless folk who can’t seem to figure out why men won’t ‘man up’ and get married. You write for the men in the trenches. She writes for the people on the sidelines who dont even understand why there’s a battle.

Dude
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Dude
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… Further more these afternoon whoring cunts that think they are ‘ one of the boys ‘ and ‘ get on better with guys than girls ‘ … All ego boosting validation cunts . There is no reason on earth for a (straight ) woman to be : a mechanic , racing car driver , fisherman , engineer etc . It like a straight guy having a career in hairdressing … Then again at least he would admit he’s doing it for the pussy pool

ImHopeless
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ImHopeless
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Harsh words..so we should all learn “game” so we can all raise the self esteem of the entitled princesses even more but mass approaching.
So someone who has written BOOKS about how spoiled and impossible western women are, will now not allow others to post at his forum about that same thing ?

ImHopeless
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ImHopeless
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I will only game eastern asian and sa women..in their countries. No way I’ll do cold approaches here just to be met by eye rolls and “get lost creep” attitudes from 6s.
If that make me a loser in your mind, fine..

jake
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jake
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A post, saying “let’s get together and have fun chasing women” – anywhere, anytime in all of Eastern Europe, got … zero takers. In a somewhat popular forum, with that exact target audience

I think almost ALL dudes talking a lot about game, and notches, and flags in particular, don’t actually get laid. Or maybe they do, but with quality they don’t actually want to be seen with, around guys who know what’s what.

Btw, Rooshenburgen, how about it? A humorous game-off, in Eastern Europe. You’re supposed to be into that.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I’ve avoided the “manosphere” from the time I ran across it due to the simple fact I felt all along it was full of weak minded losers.

Roosh’s revelation is not news to me.

If men take their balls back feminism will go away.

And if a guy keeps his balls in the first place, feminism rarely bothers him in his day to day pursuits.

Tim
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Tim
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for what it’s worth, roosh, I always thought return of kings was beta to the core. think about it. even the name makes you think of steve carell in the forty year old virgin, or an asian kid.

This (rooshv)is a good blog, roosh. Just keep it simple. Stick to what you know.

Matthew King
Guest

Cults remain cults because they subject themselves to perpetual purity tests, until only the cult founder remains, who insists that his increasingly specific idiosyncrasies become the standard of purity.

You fellows have all the substance you need to take over the culture, and all the political acumen of Dennis Kucinich’s campaign manager. You tempt me to blog under another name and show you pikers how it is done. But it’s only a temptation, easily forsworn. I’d rather see you figure it out on your own.

If a movement is so brittle that the first sally from the outside world ramifies it into a hundred sub-sects, that’s a sign you are too precious, too rarefied to survive. You need ruggedness, adaptability, perseverance in the face of (perceived) betrayal. You take your ideology too seriously to make it significantly applicable to human behavior.

Bubble boys without contact to pathogens never develop an immunity system and die upon contact with their first germ. You are exhibiting that kind of deadly vulnerability by treating outsiders as infiltrators rather than as opportunities for persuasion and alliance, who just haven’t been fully initiated yet.

Matt

Traveller
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Traveller
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For how much I admire Roosh, I can not say I completely agree.

This is the net so it is obvious many will feel the desire to appear better than they are.

Ok but my point is, actually, the manosphere is not only game. It is primarily a place where men can get conscience of discrimination against them, divorce laws, domestic violence, schools against boys and so on.

I do not think game alone can solve everything.

Of course women should not have such power, but a man telling his pain for example during a divorce, can be useful and instructive about the current laws.

Let’s not dismiss him as a loser with no game. Instead, let him know about the proper spaces, game sites, laws and society blogs etc.

For me, the infiltration of catholics and other religious nuts is equal if not worse than women’s.

You never had problems naming that guy Minter and now we have an anonymous “prominent blogger”? Name it please.