The Manosphere Is Lost

I just finished listening to a manosphere radio show that features a prominent blogger. His co-host is… a girl. I’m supposed to see value in her sharing thoughts on men’s issues, yet instead I’m disturbed at the platform she was given. I believe this is the exact moment that the manosphere has jumped the shark, where I’m now embarrassed to be a part of it. I predict within a couple years, the word “manosphere” will attract as much stench as the word “PUA.” There are two reasons for it: (1) The arrival of geeks who have no game, and (2) The infiltration of women.

There were three guys who first noticed this decline: Bronan, Danger & Play, and Nate. They mocked the “manospambots,” their obsession with the concepts “hypergamy” and “solipsism,” and their flocking to a community not for their own betterment but to rationalize their failures. Many of these new arrivals are married and so have a natural hostility to game and the bachelor’s option to sleep with more than one woman per year.

Take a look at the word hypergamy. Psychological studies now show that a man’s use of this word is highly correlated to not getting laid. And yes, the ability of a man to lay a woman is, for better or worse, a reliable indicator of his value. If you don’t agree with that then I think we all know why. The guys who have a tendency to use manosphere jargon are socially awkward in real life, similar to how PUAs of the previous decade who used acronyms like DDBL and FMAC didn’t actually know how to pick up. If a man doesn’t get laid, or doesn’t at least put in sustained effort, he has no business complaining about women on the internet. Bitterness is not a substitute for experience.

My position in the sphere insulated me from taking the criticisms of Bronan, D&P, and Nate seriously, because as a manosphere elder I did want it to crush feminism and so on. I closed my eyes to a lot of what was going on. The Mark Minter affair, however, made me realize that this community is turning into one of pussy beggars, nearing the level of men’s rights activists. It wasn’t Minter himself that made me come to this conclusion, but the reaction to his fall.

I hate to beat an old horse, but you could not find a man in America more against marriage than Minter. If you google “hates marriage more than anyone in the world,” your browser would crash, the lights would flicker, and Minter himself would knock on your door, demanding you sign a binding contract to never marry a Western woman. And what did he do? He put a ring on a manosphere groupie that he may not even have banged yet. Surprisingly, the response from a large part of the sphere was to defend or congratulate him. Dozens rose up to argue that it’s not necessary to practice what you preach, that it’s okay to be a keyboard jockey, and that it’s fine to play make-believe. Nah, I don’t play that—I never have and I never will. I don’t want to be a part of any community that defends phonies, because it’s obvious those defenders are envious of Minter’s grand score and are actively trying to get laid by a 30-something manosphere broad themselves.

The flood of these beta males, who have never approached a woman in their lives, coincided with the arrival of women. It’s known that women try to poison places where men congregate, but trailing them was a long line of beta males and white knights who are desperate for their attention. It becomes a feedback loop where the arrival of women encourages more weak men to follow which then encourages even more women to come. Instead of keeping them out, some manosphere veterans are welcoming them with open arms. There is a large subset of men who now participate in the sphere primarily to get female commenter attention. It’s pathetic. The manosphere used to be full of Biggies and Tupacs—now everyone is tripping over themselves to be Drake, blogging and commenting in the hopes they may get laid. (I apologize in advance to the large number of neo-Nazis in the manosphere for comparing them to a man of non-Aryan race.) It’s hard for me to accept that the manosphere is well on its way to becoming a match.com for old people who hate blacks.

In December I made the following prediction:

Only now do I now foresee what my prediction entailed. First, it’s important to understand that the mainstream cannot publish dangerous ideas. They must be sanitized beforehand. Men’s rights victims—I mean activists—are getting some mainstream exposure right now. Do you know why? Because their movement is impotent. It’s safe. Their mention in articles is mainly a vehicle to publish feminist talking points and inoculate the masses against their whining. And when the spotlight was moved onto this side of the sphere, who did it shine on? A married woman named Dr. Helen. She made the media rounds to cash in on a book which “borrowed” the ideas we have been masticating on for over five years. You’d think there would be outrage, but there was congratulations instead. She was looked on as a savior who may help us get more traffic to our blogs, a trailblazer that would bless us with exposure in the Huffington Post and The Atlantic. How sad is it for a community to decry white knighting but seek one in a married woman? I will never let a woman speak for me or the community I’m a part of, and the only way to ensure that is not to be a part of one where men are rushing to munch the carpet of an elderly woman in her 60s.

At its peak, the non-MRA portion of the manosphere excelled at teaching men how to get laid while laying down Chris Brown-style pimp slaps on feminists. It was great: guys were simultaneously sharing important knowledge and making the world a better place. I’ve happily met over 200 of my readers by now, but I wouldn’t dare meet a lot of these fat old dudes who are the fastest growing segment of the manosphere today. It’s one thing to complain about having to work hard to improve your station, but it’s another thing to complain while hoping to bang a female manosphere commenter who is a 4 on her best day. The worst part of it is that guys are drooling over old manosphere women who are already married. I don’t associate with these people in real life, so why would I do so online?

Don’t read the writings of men who don’t get laid. If a man can’t solve the challenge of getting his dick wet, he’s a poseur and internet warrior. He’s a bloviator, a troll. Don’t read the writings of men who don’t know how to walk up to a woman and start a conversation. Don’t read the writings of men who lavish attention on female commenters, because if he was getting laid in real life, he wouldn’t even notice them. Game is an obligatory pursuit for the Western man in 2013, and if he is not pursuing it, he’s not someone worth listening to. He’s weak and scared. He needs to talk to women instead of spending hours a day nurturing his beloved manosphere personality. His world view, contaminated by a lack of female intimacy, will lead you down the wrong path. These fools have tainted a community of men that exclusively stood for getting laid and spreading truth, but now rushes to pardon obvious fakes like Minter.

At risk of sounding dramatic, I’m stepping away from the manosphere. I don’t want to be associated with a community I’m finding increasingly hard to identify with. I can’t control what other people do on their sites, but I can control what happens here, on the forum, and on ROK. I will gleefully ban all women, keyboard jockeys, and whiny divorced men. For as long as I’m alive, my sites will remain a place where men can be unapologetically male. The manosphere, sadly, is no longer that place. It had a good run, but it’s time for something purely masculine to rise up in its stead.

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Manospambot No. 138
Manospambot No. 138
7 years ago

“Neo Nazis”

Again the straw man sophistry. Deep down, you’re just another leftist.

MattC
7 years ago

People are actually writing comments and engaging in comments to initiate faceless women in the hope of getting laid? Christ.

I’ve slowly been disassociating myself with the manosphere too over the past few months. Too much of it these days is about battling feminism and political discussion, neither of which interest me. Even on the forum, I question what guys actually have value besides being internet warriors, and you can see bitterness in a lot of people.

I don’t actively read much on the manosphere these days, I just stick to detailing my life on my blog and reading very few others that I can relate to. I suggest you do the same and worry about your own affairs, as I’m sure you are.

Ruxman
7 years ago

And just when I thought the manosphere was becoming a little repetitive.. things move quick in this corner of the web.

K-hole
7 years ago

The average heartiste commenter sounds like he doesn’t have any game. Looking at the things they write (and the way they’re written) it makes me think, “Do you even approach, bro?”

Manosphere commenters seem way too uptight these days. Way too straight-laced. If it wasn’t for you and degenerates like delicious tacos, I wouldn’t read blogs at all.

Aretijgfhb
Aretijgfhb
7 years ago

Beta males and geeks are the ones buying your books, giving you page views and passing on your work to people outside the manosphere.

You may not like the direction it’s going in, but it will make you a wealthier man.

Mike Doe
Mike Doe
7 years ago

What worries me more than the influx of beta males and women is that young men have now lost a genuine place that encourages positive masculinity.

Now it’s mostly fucking bullshit drama and empty posts, devoid of any real meaning.

The manosphere was never perfect, I assume most developed their own opinion after a few months and agreed to disagree on marriage, quality of girls, life philosophies etc.

Most people can’t even think for themselves today.

“BUT THE AUTHOR JUST SAID IT’S BETA IF I DO X!”

“BRO I’M FUCKING DARK TRIAD, I CAN’T WAIT TO BE A CUNT TO THE NEXT BITCH I MINDFUCK INTO A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP”

Sign me up for the next phase of this, whatever it may be.

droid
droid
7 years ago

Do not read the posts of combative, ignorant noobs on RVF who won’t answer to factual, sourced rebuttals.

droid
droid
7 years ago

4 K-Hole: agree. heartiste might be a joke site run by frat girls dealing with Roissy wannabes that pop up like VC everywhere they turn.

droid
droid
7 years ago

*sorority

typo bc I assume the writers and readers there imagine themselves as belonging to alpha alpha alpha

Stratton
7 years ago

I’m married and I noticed the decline. It’s not just the whiners. It’s also the unbelievable standards and numbers bots. Dudes online 24/7 and maintaining harems of perfect tens. Yeah, okay.

Dr. Illusion
7 years ago

When I first discovered the Manosphere, I thought it was all about self improvement and learning the truth about human nature, and how to use that knowledge for our own ends.

Now a lot of it is wallowing in self pity and blaming every problem in the world on women/hypergamy. I just avoid the BS whiny blogs and focus on the good stuff.

I don’t think you can really escape the manosphere, unless you stop blogging altogether or blog under a new name without letting anyone know.

mina
mina
7 years ago

I was shamed, denigrated and got a whole lot of limp-wristed white knight behavior from a popular manosphere blogger as a response to my suggestion that his “manosphere forum” if not exclude women at least create a mens-only section for the men.

I agree with you, whole heartedly. I participate only occasionally on topics that I think I can actually contribute something to the conversation.

Other than that I just like to read and learn about how men think.

It’s certainly a hell of a lot more productive and interesting than learning about women think – nuff said.

Tampa
Tampa
7 years ago

I think all these blogs have gotten away from talk of theory and field practice….ie..tips on how to get laid and how to open and close women and now got into these long ramblings about social justice and theory.

I think your blog has gone down that road a little too.

I’ve been reading this blog for about 12 years and what brought me here was the fresh IN-FIELD prespective of you. I still think some of your best stuff is from your DCBachelor days. I’m with you though – tired of talking about theory and want more of in-field synoposis and insight.

We need to get back to basics.

LaM
LaM
7 years ago

Funny to post that while at the same time you have ROK bloggers going on and on about how “way too valuable” their time is while posting rant after rant of piss-poor content (poke McQueen, so rich he is selling ebooks on the net).

The keybooard alphas are on ROK as well.

I have tried ROK a few times, there isn’t much beyond the punchlines. and I really hope the life of commentators is 10% as awesome as they pretend it is.

ffolkes
ffolkes
5 years ago
Reply to  LaM

Very cheeky.

Drano
Drano
7 years ago

You’re just as guilty as Donlak and others. You’re the one who let girls write posts on RoK and then gave shit to all the commentators that told you it was a bad idea.

Fortunately you’re getting your barrings back and see what the sphere truly is. Funny thing is the sphere hasn’t changed much at all since the early days, it’s just larger now.

Superfreak
Superfreak
7 years ago

One whiner pseudo-white knight ruined it all? Really. Come on, I’ve learned great things from valuable angles in your publications, but recently you seem to have lost interest in scoring. Not gonna guess or suppose why, but don’t find scapegoats to blame your disinterest in.
If you’ve reached an age where for some reason banging has lost its priority, move on. Find something else. Heck, write about it.
In my view, at nearly 50, it’s still the same deal; to not let fembots rule it all, and to glean pleasure from the cutest’s company.

Premature E
Premature E
7 years ago

I dont read any of that manosphere crap anyway but yeah roosh i think you should monitor ROK more closely…. sometimes it’s like reading mainstream over there

Capitalist Pig
Capitalist Pig
7 years ago

The answer to this to charge for the content. The fat old guys and women won’t bother if they have to pay and the serious men will happily pay for the content as long as you price it right. All of the best manosphere writers should be charging for access to the content you publish.

Jim
Jim
7 years ago

You answered your own question.

“A married woman named Dr. Helen. She made the media rounds to cash in on a book which “borrowed” the ideas we have been masticating on for over five years. You’d think there would be outrage, but there was congratulations instead. She was looked on as a savior who may help us get more traffic to our blogs, a trailblazer that would bless us with exposure in the Huffington Post and The Atlantic. How sad is it for a community to decry white knighting but seek one in a married woman?”

“Don’t read the writings of men who don’t get laid. If a man can’t solve the challenge of getting his dick wet, he’s a poseur and internet warrior. He’s a bloviator, a troll. Don’t read the writings of men who don’t know how to walk up to a woman and start a conversation. Don’t read the writings of men who lavish attention on female commenters, because if he was getting laid in real life, he wouldn’t even notice them.”

If men go out into the MSM and try to explain it, won’t they themselves be thought of as the paragraph up above? Thing is the MSM is setting up the manosphere as a rag tag collection of exactly just that. No one is realizing it just yet.

Deebos
Deebos
7 years ago

Anywhere men congregate is bound to fall if given over to Western ideals. Western ideals cannot tolerate anything that is exclusive to men, particularly when the stated goal is toward self improvement or equalization of the dating playing field. Sadly, the decline is typically due to men not living according to their own moral code but rather chasing what is popular, gives you more street cred, or makes you “appear” that you’re the man. Appearance, rather than being…ring a bell Mark? Including women only contributes to chasing the popularity contest and the flashiness of fake. Men of character have never been concerned with these things, the chase is the goal, the seduction of beautiful women the reward.

The Private Man
7 years ago

Yo Roosh, do what you must. I’ll keep on doing what I do because I’m still a Manosphere guy.

‘Cuz I’m old and shit.

Hipstersstink
7 years ago

I still can’t understand how someone meets and marries a girl via comments on a blog?? Or how / why you would consider it as an option (unless she’s hot and just wants to bang and appearance is verified in advance, then MAYBE)?

Anonymous
Anonymous
7 years ago

meanwhile the fem-o-sphere also seems to be melting down pretty spectacularly with the hugo schyzer thing

also in addition to roissy’s commenters, a lot of his posts read like someone who has never talked to a girl

AudioRebellion
7 years ago

It almost seems like we are on the loosing side a war of attrition…

I’m with Roosh in saying women have no place here. Call me what you like but everytime you add a female into a male on situation you have attention whoring at it’s basic level.

“look at me, i’m a woman”

The shit has to go…

I just ignore any blogger who willingly incorporates a female into his voice to the manosphere.

pm
pm
7 years ago

Yeah, always suspected that readership of some blogs must be full of losers. Because neo-nazis aren’t usually exactly winners.. heh