The Men’s Rights Movement Is Dead

Three years ago I wrote a post titled “Men’s Rights Has Become A Euphemism For Sexual Loser.” I argued that the movement is made up of manginas who refuse to improve themselves. Afterwards, a part of me felt regret for blasting them. After all, we’re all on the same team, in search of happiness in an increasingly male hostile world.

So I reached out to them. I commented on their blogs. I tweeted their posts. I endured their temper tantrums about how game “doesn’t work” or is “only for sluts.” I held out hope that they would self-organize and smash feminism in the face. But nothing happened. There was no action, no “movement” to speak of. In that time they only had one victory to boast about: the removal of a Huggies commercial that was deemed offensive to dads. The sad part is that the anti-diaper activism happened outside of the MRA sphere. They couldn’t even claim it was their work. They were the reporters who arrived late to the crime scene trying to pretend they still had the exclusive scoop, but the viewers at home weren’t fooled.

The biggest problem with MRAs is that they are not activists. They are pamphleteers. They believe knowledge alone will solve the ills of the world. They believe that merely reading about how men are getting shafted will improve the status quo. They believe that one-thousand of them typing away and producing ten-thousand blog posts will change society. Men will spontaneously rise up! They will fight the matriarchy! But they haven’t, and they never will. Their movement hasn’t produced any results, only little online playgrounds where sad boys can sit in the sandbox and helplessly watch girls play with the cocky boys who understand the rules of the game.

I looked in the dictionary for the definition of activist: “the policy or action of using vigorous campaigning to bring about political or social change.” What political or social change have the men’s rights pamphleteers brought? Say MRP in one syllable. That’s the sound they make every time they sit down and hit publish on another one of their turd rants, giddy at the prospect of changing the world when a cup of strong coffee accomplishes more change to their actual turds. They are not read by the influencers of our society. They don’t have the ears of politicians, professors, or journalists. They get the occasional snarky mention from Jezebel and think they’re accomplishing something when they’re actually being used as nothing more than fodder for female bemusement or page views that help make Nick Denton richer. Even the feminists, their supposed mortal enemy, refuse to debate them on equal footing.

There are 684 woman’s studies programs in the United States. How many men’s rights programs have the MRPs helped instate? Zero. How many pro-man laws have been passed thanks to the work of the MRP? None. How many real victories can they claim? Not one. The entire men’s rights non-movement can be boiled down to one middle-aged man named Paul Elam who is carrying the weight of a thousand pamphleteers on his suffering shoulders. That’s not activism, that’s following one dude’s blog. The difference they think they’re making by cheering the public outing of false rape accusers or “male shamers” is the same difference my sister makes when she reads an article in Cosmo.

I’ve made dozens of posts complaining of American women and feminism. I’ve read a thousand articles on the internet about how they are ruining society. Aren’t I just like the MRPs? Aren’t I just another professional whiner like them? There’s a difference:

I take personal action and encourage other men to do the same.

At the same time I was complaining that American girls are fat, I was blasting inside Polish girls with perfect bodies. I tell men how to sleep with such women.

At the same time I was whining about divorce rape, I was dating a Ukrainian girl who treated me like a king. I tell other men where to find women like her.

At the same time I complain that the American economy is in trouble, I was completing another book I knew my readers would like so that I could increase my income. I provide men with a forum that contains a lifestyle section to discuss money-making tips.

At the same time I was ranting against the Skrillex haircut, I was banging a Lithuanian girl whose hair belonged in a Vidal Sassoon shampoo commercial. I tell men how feminine women are like.

Instead of taking real action with their lives, MRPs are hoping the government will one day serve their interests and give them things that me and my readers are achieving on their own. I don’t need the government to pass laws against alimony. I simply won’t marry in the USA. I don’t need the government to pass laws promoting fair child custody laws. I won’t impregnate an America girl. I don’t need the government to increase punishment for false rape accusers. I’ll cover my own back. I don’t need the government to ban trans fat to lower the weight of the population. I’ll go to Poland. While they try to change the minds and culture of 310 million Americans with their WordPress blogs, I’ll be hitting on pretty girls in a Croatian bar. I’ll be living the life that I want instead of being entitled and waiting for the government to give it to me. In the same breath they call me a pussy beggar, they beg the government for protection from pussy.

Last time I checked, the government is not forcing me to interact with American girls. They are not forcing me to live in Washington DC. I can improve my station any way I want. The reason is because I’m from the motherfucking United States of America. If I can’t figure out how to improve my appearance, learn some game, make some money from an internet side business, travel abroad to fuck women, and find happiness in the world, then no one can. I don’t need the American government to look after my interests, because I can chase after my own. Instead of listening to Paul Elam tell me that men are getting fucked, I will step out of the house and find a girl who wants to get fucked by me.

Anything that a MRP wants right now can be achieved somewhere in the world. You don’t need the government to provide it for you—simply get on an airplane and make it yours. But they rather sob silently in the closet with a box of tissues while watching women get their pussies demolished by men who have learned skills they are are too scared or lazy to even attempt. Just like how fat women use the euphemism “healthy body weight” as a rationalization to be obese, MRPs use their illusionary movement as an excuse to sit on their ass and be a loser at life.

I know you are entertained by my occasional anti-feminist rants because I read your comments. I see my stat counter spike up whenever I take a hot steaming shit directly in a feminist’s mouth, but I also get dozens of emails every month from guys who thank me for helping them. They are getting more out of what they want in life because they are acting on the advice I’m sharing. Instead of complaining about the state of society and shooting loads of ecstasy all over the men’s rights subreddit, they are making changes to their life to grab that pizza slice of happiness that is undoubtedly easier for an American citizen privileged to be born in the most prosperous country the world has ever seen. The MRPs are wasting this economical advantage by spending all their time reading blogs by guys who have no idea how to help men achieve their goals.

I want to say I’m saddened that MRAs and myself are unable to co-exist, but really I’m not. They add no value to my life and give me no answers on how to navigate the modern world. They were faced with a choice: spend all their free time on blogs or approach a god damn woman. They picked the former. For that I have no respect for them. The storm has arrived and they are the dead weight that must be quickly tossed overboard to prevent the boat from capsizing.

The only true regret I have is that as part of the “manosphere” I’m automatically grouped in with those guys, who are even bigger losers than I could have imagined three years ago. By saying that I know they will hate me now more than ever. They will say I’m using “shaming language” and that I’m hurting their feelings, but they should thank me for this righteous shame because it’s the only way they will see the dead-end road they have taken. From the bottom of my dark heart I want to give them a piece of advice that I sincerely hope they take: before you decide to change the world, try changing your own life first.[culturewar]

255 Comments

  1. LittlePDog (Starting Young and Aiming High) August 27, 2012 at 9:20 am

    You just said what every other game blogger knew deep down but was too scared to say. Did anybody really expect a “movement” predominated by divorced raped emasculated 40 something chodes to succeed in making women succumb to their wishes?

  2. Ben August 27, 2012 at 9:21 am

    You’re way off base here. Contradictory and off base.

    That’s coming from a true fan too.

  3. Anonymous August 27, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Solid. Keep doing work Roosh, you give the rest of man kind hope.

  4. Doug August 27, 2012 at 9:28 am

    This the most motivating site I’ve ever read.

  5. Anonymous August 27, 2012 at 9:30 am

    I agree with Roosh. His point was made when Paul Elam very directly attempted to pick a fight with Heartiste/Roissy. Paul Elam would rather see us all miserable and open to revolution than attempting to find happiness where we can. Happy men are unlikely to join anyone’s cause…or send them donations.

  6. Onder August 27, 2012 at 9:31 am

    It’s true.
    This is a lesson which i learned the hard way. Granted, it’s good to recognize the shit and unfair aspects of life. But there will ultimately come a point where you just have to learn to play the system and make it work for you and not against you.
    My dad mentions this all the time. The system isn’t fair, so either learn the rules and milk it for what it’s worth, or stay where you are…
    It’s that simple..

  7. Mats August 27, 2012 at 9:32 am

    It’s not over until the woman with the “healthy body weight” sings.

  8. LittlePDog (Starting Young and Aiming High) August 27, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Question Roosh: did something happen to instigate this post or was this bubbling under the surface for a while now?

    [Roosh: Bubbling like an upset stomach.]

  9. Fritz August 27, 2012 at 9:34 am

    I do agree with you that the MRA have a lack of activism. Their posts are a lot of times full of whining and complaining. There is plenty of circle jerking in the comments. And finally, very little call to action even when one is warranted.

    But it also seems that they are improving. There is a lot more outside activity, mainly with awareness and recruitment.

    And there are gorps like SAVE and The False Rape Society that seem to be doing work.

    At the same time, what you are doing is not really activism either. The examples you gave are simply you running away. You tell other men how to do it, but that is still just moving men around the globe.
    No actual political change is happening for the men’s rights, but feminism is spreading. Men like us can run to South America or Eastern Europe now, but what about the next generation? They will need to go to Africa to get what they want? And then, what’s next?

    In the end though, the manosphere inherently has two parts: the PUA and the MRA. Both parts are needed. The PUA community is meant to teach men to be men, to have masculinity. The MRA community is supposed to fight for mens civil rights.
    You must realize that a man can have all the rights and privileges he want’s but still be a total pussy. At the same time, a man could be the biggest Alpha he can, but still be sent to jail if he has no rights as a human.

    Both PUA and MRA are needed, and both need to be more active and expand.

    [Roosh: The argument you’re using for MRAs is that we should worry about the unborn and how the world will be after we’re long gone? Read the last sentence of my post again.]

  10. Jim August 27, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Si. It’s like voting in those who pass such garbage as Obamacare and then turning around and complaining it’s anti-male. Then falsely labeling others as hypocrites for not speaking up about it.

    You vote in those that pass this crap, know they are anti-male as hell, that they manipulate women in a so called “war” against them, and then label others for not talking about it? Seems to me they are the real hypocrites.

  11. rick August 27, 2012 at 9:59 am

    @Ben could you explain what you mean?

    This has to be my favourite post. I really cant stand mras.

    Feminism rose because really what can women do other than complain about shit to get stuff done.

    Men take action unless they are weak-minded cunts.

  12. Billy August 27, 2012 at 9:59 am

    I don’t see any inherent conflict between the 2 positions. Think globally, act locally. The PUAs talk about how to get women but without the MRAs constantly describing women’s sociopathic nature and their ability to screw you over using the legal system, men would be more likely to succumb to a long term relationship.

  13. albert magnus August 27, 2012 at 10:00 am

    I find the MRM appeals to a lot of guys who are not ready for game and need something else for a while. The guys who get stuck in that mentality are a problem, but if your ex-wife just destroyed your life and is screwing up your kids you need someone who understands that situation at least at first.

    On the other hand if you are just scared of girls (which is true of a lot of young guys), then game is what you need.

    The ideas of the MRM will likely succeed by sneaking through the back door when no one is looking. MRM aren’t going to win public arguments, but they really don’t need to. Men are still in control of most things they just aren’t very loud and obnoxious about it.

    I rather like the writing of Bill Price and Jack Donovan and hope they continue writing good stuff.

  14. Mats August 27, 2012 at 10:03 am

    You know, Roosh, Fritz does have a point there. What you are doing is not really helping man per se (in the grand scheme of life) as much as it is helping yourself (and the ones who choose to act the way you are acting).

    Basically, what you are doing [banging girls] is taking advantage of one of the consequences of feminism [sluttery] for personal gain.

    Now, everyone is intitled to live his life as he sees fit, but it’s a bit weird to criticize feminism on one side (do you?), while you are writting books about sleeping with girls who are open to banging precisely due to that same feminism.

    1. Drew Brosky July 22, 2016 at 6:03 am

      That isn’t true. Even without slut behavior, game is essential to the promotion of healthy male behavior. Roosh is what I consider the American man. Make an assessment of what you want and go the fuck after it. It’s how America became the greatest country in the history of the marble. The idea that some collectivist mentality will reverse or improve the situation is silly. That is the opposite of America that I want.

  15. Kenny Lives August 27, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Though I agree with you,simply getting on a plane is not that easy . You have had advantages that others have not to be the man you are today. It is just not easy for the average schlub to just all of a sudden be free from the shackles that hold him in place. Some ppl just can’t WILL things to be.
    This is not an excuse but a shade of grey that can’t be ignored.

  16. Phinn August 27, 2012 at 10:07 am

    It’s true — Skrillex does have unforgivably stupid hair.

    As for the MRA movement, the problem I have is that it attempts to use the methods of its enemy — the system of “social action” that was INVENTED to destroy MEN.

    And they wonder why men can’t gain any traction with it.

    The mainstream media, protests, activism — these are all Leftist methods that were consciously designed and refined over the last 150 years to promote socialism. Feminism is merely the non-economic, social wing of the socialist movement. Its purpose and function is to destroy the patriarchal, nuclear family, in order to replace it with the almighty State.

    You can’t use collectivist methods to undo collectivism.

    The message, “improve yourself” just doesn’t resonate with these people, because they have so thoroughly bought into the idea that the only form of change that is meaningful is that which occurs by and through government.

    The Left has managed to eradicate most of the idea that men are free and in charge of their own lives. Now, most people believe they are only as free as some government bureaucrat allows them to be. It’s an “institutionalized mindset” — the idea that everything is what the State declares it to be.

    So, naturally, they go whining to the State to beg for a slate of changes in the divorce laws. This is the very same organization that ass-fucked them.

    And they wonder why they don’t get anywhere.

  17. The G Manifesto August 27, 2012 at 10:17 am

    I remember when you wrote that post a few years ago about “Men’s Rights”.

    I had no idea what “Men’s Rights” even was back then.

    I still have no idea.

  18. Donny August 27, 2012 at 10:17 am

    Roosh, on an unrelated note..why bang raw dog? I know you try to remain anonymous and move around, but why take the chance at all that you will get a girl pregnant or get the syph or something else?

  19. Mats is the man August 27, 2012 at 10:24 am

    You are right on target.

  20. Mojo August 27, 2012 at 10:28 am

    You make some good points, Roosh.

    But you mention that you don’t need the MRM because you can just avoid the problems of feminism, by not getting married, not impregnating American women, etc.

    True enough. And a good code to live by.

    The only thing is, I’ve been reading MRA and PUA blogs for many years now, and I learned that code from the MRAs, not the PUAs. It was the MRAs who really got that information out there, even if you won’t acknowledge the debt.

    When you talk about living your life in a way so as to avoid those pitfalls, you sound exactly like the MGTOW. Now, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing – whether a guy is banging or not, it’s sensible to avoid marriage and having kids in the West.

    There’s a lot more common ground here than you’re acknowledging. On the other hand I do appreciate what you say about how men have to improve themselves. To me that’s hugely important and it’s something that the MRM doesn’t provide.

    [Roosh: I got no major beef with MGTOW. There is overlap in our beliefs, even if they are not as game-centered.]

  21. cookie9001 August 27, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Erm Mer Gawd Roosh. I’ve written over 6,000 letters to the editor of my local newspaper complaining about how women are evil and someone needs to stand up to them. Last week, after I went into their offices uninvited, they even said they had considered publishing three of them.
    I might not be a big PUA, in fact I’ve never even had sex, but that’s because women suck and are all fat and evil sluts. In fact I don’t even jerk it to porn that contains female actors, because I heard they get paid twice as much as their male counterparts.
    MRA’s not making progress? Bullshit, I’ve gotten over 10,000 Reddit gold for my MRA and Forever Alone subreddit posts.
    And lastly let me tell you the best thing about being an MRA: unlike all the other socially inept, 40 something year old virgins, who get oddly aroused when watching Tom Brady’s Ugg Boots commercial; I can sit back and say that it’s because I’m a social activist. After all, women are fascist scum and don’t deserve my boner.

  22. Taciturning August 27, 2012 at 10:36 am

    “In the same breath they call me a pussy beggar, they beg the government for protection from pussy.”

    This is the most effective indictment of the MRA movement I’ve ever heard, all wrapped up into a single sentence. EXCELLENT writing.

    Men take action. They don’t wait to be handed success by the efforts of others. The MRA movement could learn a few things from Roosh’s example. MRAs, the culture you loathe will still be there whenever you’re ready to DO something, instead of just talking about.

  23. DaemonMan August 27, 2012 at 10:36 am

    I agree that mens right movements are dumb..BUT you dont offer anything better. Your solution, move out of the country and learn game, cant work for everybody.
    Imagine everyone learning game ? Imagine the insane amount of approaches women would get everyday.
    Their already inflated self esteem would skyrocket.
    As for everyone leaving the country is not really a viable solution either.

  24. Ulysses August 27, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Phinn hits the nail on the head. The antidote is not masculinism, but masculinity. How that is focused and applied is up to the individual man. We may be naturally disposed toward camaraderie, but that is distinct from collectivism. We don’t need male studies, it’s called history. We don’t need protection because we’re not children. We individually define success. Self-improvement is not masturbation.

    DaemonMan – Game isn’t only for expat lotharios. It works in marriage too.

  25. Nomad77 August 27, 2012 at 10:54 am

    I believe it was Gandhi that said: be the change you wish to see in the world.

  26. DaemonMan August 27, 2012 at 11:07 am

    The change we wish to see in the world is 1) have sweeter girls and 2) law regulation towards better condition for men. I fail to see how learning game and move out of the country will make that happen.

  27. Anonymous August 27, 2012 at 11:18 am

    I have the same question Donny has. Are you trying to reproduce anonymously even though your pseudonym is associated with your name on google? Tell us, do you want to be an american gengis khan, leaving descendants all over europe? If you do, I think is a great idea. I was thinking about doing so since no women ever asks me to wear condoms. Impregnate them, let the mothers of my children take care of them, and allow beta providers or the state to pay the bills. So the strategy is this: you either have to lie about your identity so they have no one to sue, or have so many children that there will be no money left for child support.

  28. Nate August 27, 2012 at 11:31 am

    MRA: We bought the lie and we demand it be true.

    MGTOW: We don’t buy the lie anymore, leave us alone.

    Game: We don’t buy the lie anymore, let’s go have a drink (you’re buying).

  29. gatusso August 27, 2012 at 11:35 am

    MRAs are clowns, but post-Roissy PUA philosophy is pretty much useless as well. Too much evo psych emphasis on this impossible super-alpha ideal. A lot of guys would be better off just learning a musical instrument; it makes up for a lot of sins. Simply saying the word ‘band’ gets a girl interested.

    Like Roosh has said before, niche game: brew your own beer. Or join some hiking club. I feel like the manosphere is always obsessed with looking super tough. Well, guess what: women don’t hang out at MMA gyms. Learn what’s useful for a street situation and apply your time elsewhere. The girls who aren’t materialistic hags tend to cluster in creative circles. You don’t need to go to another country even.

  30. John August 27, 2012 at 11:38 am

    The Vidal Sassoon reference made it worth the read.

  31. Brandon August 27, 2012 at 11:39 am

    This is a good post because it spells out clearly that trying to change people is fruitless. As far as I know, the government accepts feminism because it’s in their best interest to do so. More men have and will continue to become self-reliant because the government has failed them.

    I’ve seen a man go through a divorce, have is life’s earnings taken away and is continually harssed for more to this day. That is a straight up smack to the face and a noose around the balls. If any man is foolish enough to rely on this government to grant them their rights then they are wasting a huge amount of time by not taking the initiative themselves.

  32. Jordan August 27, 2012 at 11:41 am

    I hope this lights a fire under their ass!

  33. HCE August 27, 2012 at 11:43 am

    I agree 100%. It’s a hard decision, but that is the way it must be.

  34. Krauser August 27, 2012 at 11:45 am

    MRA sites are useful for guys taking the red pill because they explain a side to the world that is difficult to find elsewhere. But yes, they are no substitute for actually taking action to improve your life.

  35. WestCoast August 27, 2012 at 11:55 am

    There will never be a “men’s rights movement”, men don’t need a “rights movement”. They create their own rules and live by them.

  36. freebird August 27, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Really good post and comments.
    I must admit to playing the devils advocate against game in certain venues for arguments sake,
    but in truth I see tremendous value in the teaching there-of, if only for the proper philosophical outlook, it should be taught in the schools.
    As your brother, If I sneak up behind ya and slap the hat off your head it’s because I want to see you whirl with fists raised.You need to be mad about it,and it’s manly satisfying to see it!

    Dead on with the over 40 and not playing anymore, but am definitely part of the inadvisable social network that supports young men out getting some w/o being whipped for it.

    Frankly you need us to act as counter white knights on the scene.

    Between MRA’s nipping at the heels of power,MGTOW committing gross acts of omission and gamers treating hoes like hoes,we will have a better society for men.
    The forces are mobilized and growing,resistance is now futile!
    Triple win all around!
    Keep that pimp hand strong brother.

  37. Anonymous August 27, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    You make good points Roosh, but the MRA movement fails to gain traction for the same reasons game/your site/worldview, as awesome as it is, fails to gain traction. For every guy you manage to save with your teachings, a dozen will fail, and countless more will never even try. Lets not pretend that the PUA movement is making too many inroads. We’re all “fringe lunatics” in this corner of the web.

    [Roosh: I don’t proclaim to be an activist or part of a movement.]

  38. Suz August 27, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    It’s never a bad idea to take a cattle prod to those who are stuck in their ruts.

    Nothing will ever improve without the “work” of PUAs, MGTOW, and MRAs. And the women who love them. Since women have “agency” our participation is necessary – indeed changing our behavior and attitudes is pretty much the whole point. I’m here for my son. I don’t care which path he takes, MRA, MGTOW or PUA, but I’m doing everything I can to help him (and his friends) avoid “chump.”

    MRA is the only remotely useful role women can take. Don’t mistake this for Grrrl Power, but please don’t discount women’s ability to nuke each others hamsters, as “insiders.”

    I can’t criticize you for making use of the detritus left by feminism; we women are responsible for that. But as long as women continue to give birth to boys, those boys are going to need some stability. Preferably masculine stability, not what passes for stability among mothers.

    I suspect most of the whiners in the MRM *are* stuck; they’re gagging on the Red Pill. Many of them will stay stuck, and many will change themselves. The same can be said of the still defiant (rather than truly unconcerned) MGTOW, and those PUAs who seduce sluts for revenge rather than for relaxation and pleasure.

  39. Giovonny August 27, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Fuuuuck!! I’ve been waiting for this post!

    I thought you had become an MRA guy. I’m glad you are not. I always thought MRA stuff was stupid. All they do is complain about women and point out the flaws in women nature. Men complaining never feels good to me. Women complain, men take action.

    MRAs never talk about solutions at how to make things better. They just cry and bitch about their situation. That doesn’t seem very manly to me.

    Extreme MRA views are just as stupid as extreme feminist views. People who become extremists are usually frustrated losers.

    I never heard of a guy getting alot of pussy becoming a MRA guy.

    I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong, I’ll admit I don’t know too much about it because I don’t pay any attention to to it, but, when I see men complaining and crying and bitching, I just automatically think pussy, loser, beta.

  40. livingwell August 27, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    flying around the world banging chicks. Now that’s never been done before. A man of action and a true change artist. Ya baby!

  41. Jay August 27, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Yea, compared to the femi-nazi movement, the numbers of men’s groups are smaller, but they are out there.

    An excellent example of an organization which does great work is the Mankind project(google it), which essentially teaches men how to be men; as they taught me. What thing our culture does not do is initiate boys into manhood- and this is a fact which is a lot more detrimental to society than there not being enough men’s right groups.

    If ur looking for a good read on the men’s movement(as well as on the idea of masculinity) try “Iron John” by Robert Bly. This will tell you most of what you need to know on the subject. “The Way of the Superior Man” by David Deida is also educational. Just my three cents worth.

  42. S.Lynn August 27, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    IMO (female) the pendulam is swinging back to conservatism and men, once again, will be head of household. Women need a man in control whether they think so or not. It feels great to be able to “do it all” but we are not wired that way. One can only hope.

  43. Raul Felix August 27, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Action. Action. Action. Its all about action. I hate routines. I hate gimmicks and games. I’m good at being natural and funny. It comes down to balls. The man who has balls to approach a woman will get more women. I have balls. I get rejected a ton, but I also have women in my life. Get rejected. Fuck it. Stop making excuses about how life is unfair and how shitty a hand you were dealt. If you’re reading this, most likely you live in a first world country, and most likely the United States. If your broke, figure out a way to get out of it. You see no way to escape your parents basement. Join the fucking military. Do something.

  44. 20th Level August 27, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Fire breathing, acid coated, razor blades wrapped in dynamite…..Damn.

    I feel where you are coming from Roosh. But if it wasn’t for some of those MRA sites I wouldn’t have found RooshV….and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

    Those sites may not be as badass militant as they think they are, and they do tend to attract a lot of loser fringe stormfront types. But those sites do serve a purpose.

    They let guys know that they’re not crazy by thinking something is very, very wrong with reality but they just can’t put thier finger on it enough to articulate it properly to themselves.

    The Matrix analogy that MRA’s use is dead on.

  45. Rael August 27, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Other than the free internet promo & entertainment value, I really don’t get your anti-feminist thing. Trying to get the internet promo effect from both ends by nailing the MRAs too, perhaps?

    Your rants about how un-feminine women are make it sound like you want a 1950s housewife … but I’m pretty sure you’d just run screaming from the boredom of the life of a 1950s househusband, no?

    Is this on some level just what you tell your parents when they ask when you will settle down?

    I recall one post where you thanked the feminist movement for making your current lifestyle possible … seems closer to the truth.

  46. zed August 27, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    We’ll see if regular tags work here –

    I suspect most of the whiners in the MRM *are* stuck; they’re gagging on the Red Pill.

    I agree with most of the comments here about the uselessness of the MRM. In fact, I don’t think there is such a thing as the MRM – it was DOA, stillborn. Who is it that MRAs expect or want to “give them their rights”? – other men?

    You don’t ask for rights, you take them. If you ask for them, you give someone else the opportunity to say “no”, in which case they are not rights, they are indulgences which can be withdrawn at a whim.

    Men are not going to support a culture which offers them only the choice of 3 roles – cannon fodder, criminal, or slave. No amount of harassing men that they “can’t make a commitment” or need to “man up” is going to convince anyone but the dimmest men to stick their necks in the noose.

    After the Titanic struck the iceberg, the feminine imperative of “womenandchillun first, after that it is every man for himself” kicks in. Men can argue until they are blue in the face that they “deserve” an equal chance at seats in the lifeboat, but they will never get them.

    The men who do survive this will be the ones tearing up decking planks and smashing furniture to build their own rafts.

    The masculine principle is to take action, not to try to whine someone else into making your life ok for you – that is the feminine way.

  47. N August 27, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Only weak men need rights. The powerful ones made all the rules. The smart ones can get around the rules. Thing is, most of us are weak men

  48. Raj August 27, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Roosh isn’t suggesting men should expat but he’s saying that complaining wont make any difference. Instead complaining is a dangerous and addictive feel-good drug.

    Reality is, no one cares. The only difference one can make to one’s life is by one’s own actions.

    Any right that can be taken away is not a right but a privilege. Privelege comes at a price. There is no need to ask anyone for rights because you have the master key.

    That master key is the ability to say “NO”.

    If men start saying no to women, things will change overnight, but for that we must first learn to say no to our own desires.

    The real war is within. The problem is within, solution is within.

  49. Pingback: Stares at the World » If We Do Not Stand…

  50. Passerby August 27, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    I check your website on rare occasion. Today just happened to be one of those. Though, I gotta say the goals between you and your type have different goals. MRA are more concerned for equality of men in things like court, the justice system, and societal standards. You’re really not trying to change all that but just tell/teach guys how/where to fuck a bunch a chicks. Also, this usually being done by changing/altering/or increasing your presentation or value. So it’s like goals for societal change vs keep society the same but using hacks to come out the winner. Just my opinion.

  51. Passerby August 27, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    I posted that last comment and then went back to read and I was surprised by how many similar comments sum it up. So, I’m gonna follow up with the guy that said probrably just need to check your ego Roosh, as not everybody can follow your steps nor would it be feasible for that to happen.

  52. Francis Begbie August 27, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    The MRA are so pathetic that I find myself agreeing with stuff that Dave Futrelle wrote, and he’s probably the biggest idiot alive:

    http://manboobz.com/2012/08/26/the-whole-world-is-watching-a-voice-for-men-activists-making-fools-of-themselves/#more-6098

    Those posters are pathetic. You might find some people taking the MRA seriously if you stopped the victim game, but that doesn’t seem to be happening.

    I propose a practial MRM, one which teaches skills and gives out good advice, rather than go down the woe is me movement. At least people like Roissy are doing stuff like that.

  53. Bobby August 27, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Roosh needs to get outside of his echo chamber and realize not everyone who reads his blog is a teenage Roosh wannabe (or is he trying to say most MRAs are like this? based on what?). If he has some personal beef with some bloggers, who cares. If he just objects to their personalities or what he imagines their personal lives to be, he doesn’t really have an argument against their views. Also not everyone can/wants to travel around the world banging chicks for their life. Some have jobs, families, etc. that cause them to stay in less than ideal places. Even Roosh describes his own life as being pretty crap much of the time so it isn’t as though just going to a new location is a magical solution.

  54. PIZDETZ August 27, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    We, MEN, have created and always controlled the world.

    It has always been and will always be…

    Who is creating feminism???

    Men who do not want other man to reach their level.

    The sad part is………… all of us would do the same…. once we reach the same power.

  55. Anonymous August 27, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    The state of things for men in this country will never change for the better. It will only change for the worse. The entire US consumer economy is structured around making money on women’s interests. There is simply MUCH more money to be made by corporations pandering to women; women are just much bigger consumers than men. The whole women’s lib movement was an economic one, furthered by corporations. Think about it: flood the economy with twice as much labor, wages remain permanently low while consumer disposable income increases. This is a total win for corporations.

    Stop blaming women for this. Do you think women are in control of society? Get real. Most women aren’t even in control of their own lives on a day-to-day basis. Corporations are responsible for all this feminism bullshit. Financially, they are making a killing off it.

    Back me up on this, Roosh. I agree with what you said. These guys need to stop whining and start living. There is no other way. In the modern world, the economic interests of women will always dominate because there is so much money to made by corporations who pander to women. Deal with it. Adapt, or die.

  56. Oldest member August 27, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    I am constantly surprised that “men” are trying to discuss with feminists on a lot of websites. They use wonderful logic to crush the feminists rantings. Hello, what are you doing on feminazi websites, and when was logic an effective way of discussing with hamsters. I’m with Raj here – start by saying no. Contrary to Roosh I think that men dropping out of society is very effective in scaring the feminists. Even the most rabid feminist wants men to invent cellphones and keeping Facebook and the internet running.

  57. Wilson August 27, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    Feminism flourishes in a safe and prosperous environment so it’s true that the MRM can’t accomplish much anymore than it can re-engineer that environment; but the same awareness of women that PUAs develop by fucking with them can also be developed by looking at men’s place in the legal and social picture. True an interest in men’s rights doesn’t get you laid, but while PUAs exploit feminism they are ultimately subservient to it. How long before you find yourself deported or imprisoned Roosh?

  58. Hannibal August 27, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    I agree with Roosh here. However, the existence of the manosphere is a cultural American thing that depends on good marketing.

    That marketing is mainly that we, as Americans, are far too eager to bitch about our problems than to try and actively fix them. It’s all a part of ego protection, if we have people who agree with us (like about feminism and such) then we feel less like losers because we have a lot of support from other men that we think we respect. We also don’t have to actively fix our problems because, hey, there’s all these other guys out here who are fucked too! It must be the system, not us!

    However, the problem with the “learn game” argument is not that it’s a bad argument, it’s just that it’s a zero sum game. If every man got twice as good at game over night, there would be no changes in the distribution of lays. I haven’t decided if the women would be fatter/manlier or sweeter/feminine if all men doubled their game over night, but my point still stands. The people who are going to learn game and profit from it are not the beta/omega male losers who frequent men’s rights blogs. They feel like they’re doing something when they go there, they increase their “understanding” of the opposite sex without any risk, there’s no wonder why they wouldn’t want to approach women with that kind of mindset.

    There’s a lot of profit to be made by keeping this subset of the male population as self righteous, indignant, subjugated losers. That’s what I’m trying to say. The manosphere does not profit from the people who study the Venusian Arts, it profits from the losers who are too risk averse to even attempt game.

  59. BB August 27, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Roosh, some young men like you can afford to keep moving around the world banging chicks. Some of us are either to old to leave or have kids we need to stick around for after divorce. If you were a father, you´d understand.

    What we need is people like you fronting a totally different MRA movement, one that won´t be a last refuge for whiners and loser betas. Because you and Roissy and Naughty Nomad have the right attitude towards life and women and the strength to destroy the other side. We old bastards can thank God for Millenials like you and the above mentioned and many other bloggers for coming up with a coherent view of man in the western view. Perhaps the main reason we Generation X´rs didn´t come up with game and MRA was because we grew up when vestiges of the former patriarchy were still in place and HBD was still common sense. We met probably the last generation of semi-decent western girls when we were young. AA, PC, were slowly developing as we turned into our twenties. Ten years later, well into this century, we suddenly realized the world had changed for the worse and that we were but pathetics relics from a bygone era. I didn´t mind being called bigot, caveman, at that point, I just didn´t care anymore.
    Until I stumbled upon the manosphere, I had no idea how to hit back at the matriarchy, which I just had tried to ignore until then. Business will surely resume as before, I told myself. It´s just a phase women are going through, it will be gone soon. Sure enough, I´d read bits and pieces of Angry Harry and Fred Reed (in my opinion Reed is the true father of the Manosphere, but I digress…), but the pieces of the puzzle didn´t really clinch until I started reading you younguns in earnest. It´s never too late, they say, but in my case, I´d already married and divorced, which I would never had done if I had taken the red pill for good.
    As I said, men of my generation grew up in a relatively sane heteronormative society, with real men as dads and almost no feminists nor cougars or sluts in sight. Most of us had some instinctive basics of Game, and we had, as I said the illusion that the old world order was still in place. That men were still on top, and that we simply had to suffer uppity women for show. We were wrong of course.

    what I mean, Roosh, is that I´m sure sooner or later, you and other nomads will be fed up of banging around the world. It happened to Tucker Max, he of the secretive butthex taping lozl, it happened to Ferdinand Bardamu. And it will happen to you too some day, possibly before you hit 40. You´re already famous, so you might as well try to make it into the mainstream, not like another asshole with eyeliner like Mistery and his ilk, but as force of nature, a bigger than life character, combining both aspects: game/HBD and MRA, to strike at the soul of matriarchy or whatever it is this regime that both desouls and “empowers” women, and deballs men,with a vengeance.
    And many men like me will be right behind you to support you. We older men need your generation right here, to fight the good fight. And the younger dudes need you even more than we do. Don´t miss the big picture, you´re missing the forest for the trees with so many chicks and drinks.

  60. Cyrus August 27, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    Men are the expendable gender.

    I repeat:

    MEN ARE THE EXPEDABLE GENDER.

    Sociologists have found we live in te LEAST warlike time in the history of man. Populations are in full force.

    There are simply too many men around.

    You see this everywhere you go.

    That “poppin” bar or nightclub? Never a good ratio.

    Ever. Always more men trying to get their D wet than women trying to get their walls rubbed.

    Women are surrounded by orbiters, there are too many men! What part of this do MRAs not understand?

    What happens when there’s too many men? Hypergamy has a FIELD DAY.

    Many MRAs will sit at the sideline while alphas reap the benefit of this excess in masculinity. There are so many alphas around, why would a woman ever want to settle for YOU? Women, more than ever don’t need a “protector” or financial support anymore, most carry better job and degrees than men!

    They can now choose the hottest guy they can get their filthy paws on. And trade up if they find hotter.

    Men. Are. Expendable.

    They always have been.

    To frustrated guys: Why aren’t you making yourself hotter? Or, why aren’t you setting your standards lower? That cute 6 or 7 may be out of reach for some of you unlucky guys.

    Inferior men get gleaned. No one pities the inferior man. Feminists refuse to acknowledge most of the manosphere because they deem many of the writers inferior.

    Read up on Briffault’s law.

    Men may cry “it’s not fair!”. But that’s the way the world has worked for millennia. And just because women’s rights are around doesn’t mean there should be mens rights, at least according to society.

    YES, it’s wrong, but NO there’s nothing you can do about it. You think politicians give a single flying fuck about men? Ha, ha. If anything, they’d prefer the male pop to be dropped by several tens of millions. “more pussy for me”.

    Men have two choices. Go to war, remove the excess of men and trim the fat or enjoy the fruits of this hypergamous world. Live.laugh.love.YOLO!!!! But the fact that 49% of the population is male and 51% is female indicates that there WILL. Be losers. You really think men and women pair off 1-to-1? What, have you not finished middle school yet?

    This message will offend, but the truth hurts.

  61. Cyrus August 27, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    Women aren’t getting any hotter.

    They have no need to be.

    Ugly women still reproduce, even a plain 5/10 has a fair pick of a decent to large amount of men. Just look at online dating data.

    The argument stood that EE women are more beautiful because due to war, there were less men around so the men could afford to be pickier.

    There being a war aside, prepare for a great uglification of humanity.

    It’s already started to happen.

    RE: fat acceptance.

  62. Omega Male 2012 August 27, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    “It’s not until you’ve lost everything that you’re free to do anything.” Words from Fight Club regarding how a man becomes free. Look at it this way: You can change a system one of two ways.

    1 – Preach an alternative until people turn from their current way of life and accept the alternative.

    2 – Destroy the current system by inciting anger and discontent. Afterwards, put in place the alternative.

    PUAs posit option 1. That is, turning from the regular “traditional” ways of thinking and accepting that the PUA mindset of life is true. The believer is then free and encouraged to use this knowledge and the methods with it to attain fulfillment, happiness, etc.

    MRAs in general (and that is a huge generality) posit option 2. If a large enough critical mass of resentment is built among males, Men will eventually turn away from the current system (dating / marriage / etc) in droves, ultimately leading to a collapse of these cultural institutions. What arises from these ashes and makes the new system however – that’s up for each individual to decide.

    So who’s been successful thus far?

    Both have seen traction. There are more game-aware people right now than ever before, but you’re also seeing more Men Going Their Own Way than before. To an extent, MGTOW is the ultimate end of both of these options of paradigm shifting, since MGTOW has the ideal of personal freedom at its core.

    Some MGTOWs might practice game, some might not. However, in Roosh’s world (and most PUAs), MGTOWs who just walk away from relationships entirely and don’t practice game are sad boys who sit in corners. This is really more indicative of Roosh’s / Roissy’s / a PUA-style world view and not that of MGTOW. The PUA world view being that penises entering vaginas is what life is all about.

    The simple fact is that the meaning of life is different for everyone. Roosh and PUAs are just handing out a definition of what makes them happy like everyone else. What gives one person life fulfillment might be irrelevant to someone else.

    We’re different, that’s life.

  63. thecaptainpower August 27, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    Roosh, the mens movement is left to just working out…. Unfortunately some of my friends dont work out, and are weaker than some of my women friends. Men: If u cant bench press over 225, you are pretty much a women.

    Bodybuilding, and MMA fighting…last bastion of men…

  64. Cyrus August 27, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    What gave you 225 as your standpoint, captain?

    Why not 250?

    Why not use SQUATS OR DEADLIFTS as a benchmark? They are both more powerful lifts. Using bench, of all lifts as your standard is fucking retarded.

    But I’m guessing you have chickenlegs if you value a bench more than squat/DL.

    I WOULD agree with you that those are the last bastions of men, but have you seen Bodybuilding.com’s forums? There is an extreme amount of insecurity and “foreveraloneness” in that place. You can lift weights, but it doesn’t make you not a pussy nomsayan?

  65. Rick August 27, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    Totally unrelated to this post, but roosh i seen on your twitter your actually considering going to south east asia.

    I say go for it man,i havnt been yet but iam hoping that it makes peru look hard in comparison.

  66. SamBelammy August 27, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    thecaptainpower, Cyrus

    Have you seen how bodybuilding, powerlifting, mma etc are increasingly being infiltrated by women. Why do we American men have such a problem with having men only places? It is bad for us but bad for women too. Every time I see a loser drag their wife, gf, daughter or sister to the gym I feel like punching him in the face. Let the women be women and men be men.

  67. Turbo the Drycleaner August 27, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    The only MRA site i still read is spearhead.

    dont even get me started on AVfM. I

  68. Professor Mentu August 27, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    I think you should do a Part 2 to this, and simply copy and paste cookie9001’s comment (comment #22).

    That’s all it would take for people to say “Roosh makes a damn good point.”

    Cookie, I hope that was satire and I’m just a little slow today.

  69. Turbo the Drycleaner August 27, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    But part of the reason there is no activism on MRA sites is because even in its infancy the MRM believed that feminism was self-defeating; eventually it would destroy whatever country it took root in and things would return to normal.

  70. The Specimen August 27, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    I just laugh at the so called men of the MRA movement. Basically, they’re a bunch of losers whining because they got pocket 10s and still lost. I’d rather be a man than a woman any day. I have it way better than the best looking, most successful women I know, and you couldn’t pay me to trade places with them.

    Society isn’t stacked against men. Shit actually favors us, and if you think it’s the other way around, then you are a bitch who doesn’t have the wherewithal to leverage your competitive advantages. You sound like a child when you cry about double standards, when there are double standards that clearly benefit you. It’s like a chick wanting equality in all things except picking up the dinner tab.

    Rather than cry about how hard it is to approach women, you should think about how awesome it is that you have complete control over whether an approach is made (rather than having to wait and hope they talk to you), sack the fuck up, and take control of the situation like a man.

    I swear, listening to these idiots is like listening to a guy demand he get pocket aces because he can’t win with pocket 10’s. Me, you won’t hear complaining about my pocket 10’s cause I’ll take your money with a deuce seven off suit.

  71. Amido August 27, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    It took feminism many, many years before it became the gargantuan entity that it is today.

    The book which began 2nd wave of feminism – “The Second Sex” was published in 1949; that’s 20 years before the movement even hit mainstream awareness.

    The MRM – on the other hand – only really began a few short years ago. It’s still in embryonic form, so it’s not all the surprising that not much has been accomplished in terms of policy change or societal influence. It’s still just beginning.

    What the MRM is doing, is raising awareness amongst men of men’s rights issues. Nine tenths of any form of activism is awareness raising, and education, even within any given movement.

    I’m not an MRA that discounts game, or sees anything wrong with PUA. It’s a shame that there is even conflict between the two communities, since each has much to offer the other, in my opinion.

    Articles like this don’t exactly help, though. I’m not entirely sure what is achieved by a rant such as this – to convert more MRAs to PUA perhaps? I don’t actually see why one can’t be both – and I know I’m not alone in thinking that. Indeed, I only heard about PUA from participation in MR forums.

    It’s too soon to dismiss the MRM, it really is just the beginning.

    [Roosh: 20 years in the 50s is not equivalent to 20 years today.]

  72. Stuki August 27, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    On a global scale, when one lives in a dystopian hellhole, there is value in any movement that gets people pissed off and less invested in the “system”, the “country”, “we”, or whatnot.

    More MRAs are actually starting to realize female suffrage was a bad idea. And from there, the road to realize suffrage, period, was a bad idea is a bit shorter. Jackbooted thugs taking your stuff is jackbooted thugs taking your stuff. Whether they do so because “stupid feminists” voted the into power, stupid manginas voted the into power, the cuckoo in the tree anointed them to king status, beacuse upstanding male pillars of the community voted them into power,or whatnot, is irrelevant. Most MRAs are, as you hint, not exactly the sharpest tools in the drawer, and do not seem to have the easiest time figuring out te obvious, but the more people identify as opposed to what we have now, the greater the chance enough of them will be so fed up with the oppressors behind creating the current reality, that they realize Mohammad Atta et al was in fact fighting the good fight. And that is a good thing.

  73. Meyer August 27, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    @9:

    [Roosh: The argument you’re using for MRAs is that we should worry about the unborn and how the world will be after we’re long gone? Read the last sentence of my post again.]

    Yes, Roosh, we should worry about how the world will be after we’re gone. Check out the preamble to the U.S. Constitution. The Founders wanted to “secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves AND OUR POSTERITY” (emph. added) and without them none of us would have the freedom to blog, comment, or do much else. Absolutely we need to pay forward here.

    And yes, we need to improve our own lives, but we can’t expect to be perfect before making plans for posterity. We need to do both.

    Furthermore, we need to take the long view here. The PUA and MRM movements are, what, 5 years old? I only discovered this stuff 3 years ago and I’m always digging for new ideas. There are LOTS more guys to be reached and persuaded before we can call this a great awakening.

    Remember that feminism took over 100 years to become mainstream. And it took several hundred years of warfare to establish the patriarchy that led to the splendor of ancient Greece. Hopefully the MRM will make faster progress this time because of the Internet. But the kind of infighting seen in your post is only going to hold us all back.

  74. Anonymous August 27, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    You´re already famous, so you might as well try to make it into the mainstream, not like another asshole with eyeliner like Mistery and his ilk, but as force of nature, a bigger than life character, combining both aspects: game/HBD and MRA, to strike at the soul of matriarchy

    Can you guys quit it with this phony “game=HBD” meme. I’m tired of the junk-science racists trying to piggyback on game and pretending it’s the same think as their kook-cult. Not only are they two totally different topics, but they are actually opposites. Game says you can overcome your genetic limitations by working hard and learning behaviors. HBD people claim that working hard and learning behaviors can only do so much, and that genetics determine in the end who is high status and who is low status.

    HBD people see the success of game blogs and try to piggyback on it by writing things like “game/HBD” or spreading the “game and HBD are the same thing” meme, but the philosophies blatantly contradict each other.

    It’s like they want their cake and eat it too. When convenient, they claim genetics are what matters. In areas were genetics doesn’t work in their favor, suddenly they’re all about game and how hard work and studying can overcome any genetic gaps between the genetic naturals and the genetic have-nots.

    I don’t know if this inconsistency is because they are dishonest or because they are just too dumb to recognize the contradiction. Instead of HBD=game, the new meme should be HBD=tard.

  75. Caveman August 27, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    I am conflicted about the post. On one hand, you hit the nail on the head about government.

    It will never/ever change the laws to be more male friendly. No blog posts will ever move it in that direction. More feminist countries will simply collapse before that happens and we’ll be partying in countries which accept men.

    At the same time, MRM is useful for people who are so broken by society that it’s the only thing standing between them and suicide.

    One way MRM succeeds is by out-breeding the feminists. Not going to be that difficult, since they are all “so tired” of having kids.

  76. Anonymous August 27, 2012 at 7:42 pm

    “Game says you can overcome your genetic limitations by working hard and learning behaviors. HBD people claim that working hard and learning behaviors can only do so much, and that genetics determine in the end who is high status and who is low status.”

    If this is your definition of the two, then HBD is closer to the truth than game is.

    Your genetics absolutely do play the largest role in determining how well you will do in anything. Game/hard work will for the most part only allow you to punch 1 or 2 points above your natural genetic limitations.

    Hard work can only beat talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

  77. Days of Broken Arrows August 27, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    Change thoughts and you change the society. I think the men’s rights guys are making a difference because they’re raising awareness of the injustice of the feminist state we live in. Men then know what to do or not do.

    You’re missing a point: there have been books that have been hugely influential on the way people think. All they are is words. Think “Sex and the Single Girl.” The men’s rights guys change things by changing the way men think. Men then take different actions based on those new thoughts. Not every change is gained by marching in the street or having a university program.

  78. od August 27, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    When is the time going to come when a man who is knowledgeable about game leads the men’s rights movement? That will be the day that the game changes…

  79. Jurko August 27, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    Spot on, MRA reeks of losers.

  80. Derrick August 27, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    My main problem with the MRM is how it’s attracted all the HBD types.

    I’m one who thinks the Alpha/Beta dichotomy isn’t really that realistic.

    Besides, if being ‘Alpha’ was genetic, then there would be a hell of a lot more ‘Alpha’ men, because they would have by far been more likely to reproduce.

  81. Anonymous August 27, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    If this is your definition of the two, then HBD is closer to the truth than game is.

    Your genetics absolutely do play the largest role in determining how well you will do in anything. Game/hard work will for the most part only allow you to punch 1 or 2 points above your natural genetic limitations.

    Hard work can only beat talent when talent doesn’t work hard.

    You’re missing the point. This isn’t about which is better. Regardless of which philosophy is superior, game or HBD, that’s an argument for another time. I just want peopel to stop trying to conflate them and pretend they’re somehow just different names for the same viewpoint, or the same philosophy viewed from two different vantage points. They are clearly contradictory and in opposition in basic premises. They simply cannot both be right. HBD people clearly see the popularity of game blogs and start this meme of “HBD=game” or type things like “the game/HBD movement” in order to ride its coattails and gain followers.

    They claim to be a cognitive elite yet can’t seem to grasp the basic contradiction between game and HBD. If genetic constraints are paramount and hard work can only effect minimal change, much of game is useless. If hard work can transform a man from a beta to an alpha, then much of HBD is invalidated. The “hbd=game” crowd are either dishonest or stupid.

  82. MacCool August 27, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    Like I said other time – I admire you Roosh, but sometimes you’re a little warlike in your opinions (?), just wondering.

    I agree with you that you have to be a man before trying to fight for manhood or whatever, everyman who wants to fight this war on feminism must have game.

    On the other hand, like some guys said before, you’re just leaving and encouraging other guys to do the same. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but that don’t help western society.
    The western world was invaded by marxism by the backdoor, gentlemen. Feminism is just one ugly face of marxism, other is multirracialism, a thing many people here cheer for.

    Roosh, I don’t know if you give rat ass about the future, but be shore that feminism and their ugly brothers sons of cultural marxism are going to reach Eastern Europe too if nothing changes in the core of the west.

    A war is coming, there are just too many boiling points in the next 50 years.

  83. B August 27, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    “Anything that a MRP wants right now can be achieved somewhere in the world.” — True, but this is my home, and it’s worth fighting for. I shouldn’t have to leave.

  84. Anonymous August 27, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    When is the time going to come when a man who is knowledgeable about game leads the men’s rights movement?

    Lead it where? What “rights” can you get 3 random men to agree upon without having to shoot 2 of them?

    The entire “rights” part of the designation for whatever is going on is a complete misnomer. Western culture is going through a complete Balkanization of cultural values. SoCons are trying to keep men locked in their old cultural roles while women have been completely “liberated”, and it isn’t working.

    Men may want women who don’t look like land whales and who don’t act completely crazy, but that is hardly to be considered a “right.”

    The problem with the so-called “MRM” is not a lack of guys who want to be leaders – it is the fact that most men don’t want to follow anyone.

    Most guys who wanted to do something over the past 20 years have gotten tired of trying to drag these guys out of the mud they are stuck in, and just went their own way.

    You get much further much faster if you are not trying to drag around a bunch of dead wood.

  85. B August 27, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    Oh, and also: If we win here, we will win everywhere. If the fight were unwinnable, I’d say flee. But this one is winnable.

  86. Donlak August 27, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    Is the MRA still out there? I thought we invalidated them during the last ‘war’.

    Roosh is bang on of course.

  87. Aleph August 27, 2012 at 11:54 pm

    MRM’s opposition to game stems from the fact that it’s a number’s game that requires extreme levels of toil for the “average dude” to see benefit from it.

    Can I fault them for that? To some extent; but I can see why they’d figure it’s not really worth the time and effort to fight in a system where the odds are so grossly stacked against you.

    Plus not everybody wants to leave the US and be away from their families for the sake of having sex.

    I have to say, the MRM is trying to fix things for the long-term, so that the next generations of men won’t be walking into a playing field where irrational female sexual desire is allowed to dictate the sexual market place.

    I don’t see the two as opposed movements either. Dunno why you’d bother attacking them, Roosh.

  88. justaloser August 28, 2012 at 12:13 am

    You are just a fake that using insecurity of young men to make money. I am single don’t fuck a lot of women and have a nice life. House is paid do a lot of exercise. Why everything in you blog has to come down to sex.

    is it because you are incapable of creating a nice life on your own, so you chase pussy like a young teenager.

    1. Nham Thien Duong December 25, 2013 at 4:05 pm

      I’ve had sex with more women than the average life, and it’s not a fulfilling life, it doesn’t make you a better person, and none of my friends (neither male or female) respect me more for it, if I brag about a threesome, my male friends will say ”I’m monogamic, multiple women sounds horrible”, so it’s nothing more than a female thing to think that they are the sole value of a man.

  89. LittlePDog (Starting Young and Aiming High) August 28, 2012 at 12:37 am

    MRA’s areout of touch with biological reality. Men are expendable, no amount of activism will change that and create the “true equality” between the sexes that the MRA wants.

    Also, anybody who can’t see why game and MRA can’t get along isn’t thinking critically enough. You know how after spending a while in the game you start looking down on the average dude? The overweight, lazy, socially awkward, women pedestalizing herb who gets divorced by his fat frumpy wife? Statistically that’s what the average reader of AVFM is.

    I do feel sorry for them because they’re too old to go out and develop killer game, but that’s no excuse for the circle jerking they do on their blogs. They’re just like the Human Bio-Diversity crowd, bitter (sorry to borrow feminist speak, but there’s no better word to describe their personalities) and hateful because they’re sexual losers in our modern world.

    The way they sound on the internet reminds me of the some of hardcase ultra betas I go to school with.

  90. James August 28, 2012 at 1:27 am

    While the debate on whether Game is worth the effort or not, based on a man’s age, is a legitimate debate…

    … It is a distraction. MRAs have not produced any activism. In fact, there are a few of them who are heavily OPPOSED to activism, and spend their time harassing the few who are trying to do something..

    Pretty sick.

  91. Jordan August 28, 2012 at 1:34 am

    I notice that in The Misandry Bubble,, The Futurist has an entire section about ‘Why there is no Men’s Rights Movement’, and this was written almost 3 years ago.

    He points to 4 factors that will end feminism, and makes a point about saying MRA action will not be one of them.

  92. Jordan August 28, 2012 at 1:36 am

    #52 Passerby :

    MRA are more concerned for equality of men in things like court, the justice system, and societal standards.

    Then where is their activism? Are there even groups of 5 MRAs picketing the courthouses?

    Roosh’s point is, their goals are valid, but they don’t DO anything to achieve them.

    And he is right.

  93. External August 28, 2012 at 1:38 am

    I still enjoy you anti-feminist articles though, so I hope you don’t stop those.

  94. Nick August 28, 2012 at 2:28 am

    The best antidote to the rampant feminism that’s destroying the U.S. is for men to improve themselves. Learn game, get in better shape, stack paper, set and achieve ambitious goals, travel and don’t put pussy on a pedestal. Easier said than done but take it from a recovering Beta, it’s possible.

    At the end of the day, despite all the improvements, part’s of the U.S. have been culturally lost for a generation or more, coastal CA, east coast metro areas, etc. I just moved to Poland several weeks ago and I realize how women in the U.S. (at least CA) are even worse than I thought! If you’ve never traveled to Eastern Europe, do yourself a favor, come to Warsaw, Prague, Budapest, etc. I’ll never marry an American girl or get married in the U.S. and Roosh is right, waiting for the government to do anything is foolish.

    The best piece of advice I can give is to learn a language other than English. If you know one already, even better. Go live in a country where that’s the language or travel to different ones that have it (such as the Spanish language in South America). Experience the difference for 6 months or a year. Even better if the country is part of your ethnic heritage. I’ll be spending most of the coming years, if not most of my life in Poland, my ancestral homeland.

    Things won’t improve in the U.S. until we call women in the U.S. on their behavior (and their Beta enablers). There’s no better wake up call for them than to have thousands of eligible Alphas show their willingness to leave for places with feminine women. No one is going to give men their rights, we have to take what we want into our own hands.

  95. Mage August 28, 2012 at 3:43 am

    Roosh and others, please listen to what I say because that is the only solution.

    For ages men have screwed each other to get more pussy for themselves. The victors – alfas took pussy, omegas became slaves, betas departed to new lands to build new societies where they might become kings too in absence of alfas. Their children segregated in alfas/betas/omegas again so that new waves of colonists would arise.

    But now world is global, earth is filled there are no new places to escape.

    The men continue to screw each other for pussy but in doing so they create environment that is bad for them. Nowadays even powerful men can be sued for a false rape accusation from a female bum if political opponents wish that. This will only become worse and spread to all countries around the world. There will be no Polands or Thailands to escape any more. The segregation will become worse too and instead of 1% untouchable men we will have only 0.0000000001% of men immune to female false rape accusations, divorce rapes and such.

    Game as advised by PUA’s will not help, laws as advised by MRA’s will not help. The only thing that will help is men stopping to screw each other for women.

    We must not work on new techniques for seducing women, we must not work on laws that change everything. We must start working on UNITY BETWEEN MEN.

    MEN MUST UNITE. The reason PUA’s help men more is not because it makes them meet women because it makes men to meet each other and exchange experiences. The reason MRA’s fail is because they hide behind their PC monitors and don’t meet each other in person.

    MEN MUST UNITE. Men must organize men only clubs, men only political parties, men only churches, men must give discounts to other men. Men must stop tipping female waitresses and tip male waiters. MEN MUST UNITE. MEN must learn form the laws how mafia is made.

    To escape from the UGG boot that threatens to smash you and your sons in facefor all eternity we men must UNITE and START LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. If you don’t do that and just travel from one city to another AMOGing other males or deflowering and spoiling virgins that could have made good wifes for other men until you seduced them for carousel ride or if you just sit behind your monitors in you mother basements and whine about unjust laws then that UGG boot will sooner or later catch up with you and stomp on your face, it will reach you in your mothers basemenet as well as in Poland, Thailand or Zimbabve.

    We men have a capacity to UNITE above women’s capacity. We are Spartians and we each hold the shield that protects our brothers. Women will never be able to act as A SINGLE IMPENETRABLE UNIT because of their innate egoism and petty selfishness.

    The mens ability to rise above his egoism and UNITE with other men to work as a SINGLE IMPENETRABLE UNIT, not deviating from this unison for the empty promises females exhibit is what makes MAN a MAN, not how much he bench presses or squats.

    Feminism as ideology is a child of the ideology of INDIVIDUALISM. and you all here are brainwashed by INDIVIDUALISM who in turn is the child of EGOISM that wants you do divert from the only solotuin to worlds problems LOVE YOUR NEIHBOUR AS YOURSLF (btw this was not said first by some girly Jesus guy it is the ancient wisdom of age old Kaballistic texts), all are brainwashed by this both men and women, both feminsts and many self proclaimed Red-pill-guys, both MRA and PUA.

    You will never defeat feminism if you don’t defeat INDIVIDUALISM first. And you will never defeat INDIVIDUALISM if you don’t defeat EGOISIM first.

    Until you learn how to UNITE you will never be free. Because INDIVIDUALIMS whom your EGOISM presents as Freedom is slavery, and only if you mutually LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF will you find freedom and lasting happiness.

    Stop obsessing with Game blogs or MRA blogs. Meet each other, UNITE, buy property together, do business together, don’t screw each other, don’t invite females to positions of power and LOVE YOUR FUCKING NEIGHBOUR AS YOUR FUCKING SELF.

  96. Deansdale August 28, 2012 at 4:06 am

    Let me quote Rob Fedders:

    “The reason I am opposed to Shared-Parenting or Farrell’s Council on Boys & Men is because it furthers the Marxist Dialectic. We could so easily become unwitting useful idiots, giving feminism it’s final, ultimate goal – to take children away from mothers and communally raise them, so that their biology doesn’t stand in the way of their equality.

    And fuckin’ eh, I’m opposed to the MRM being Useful Idiots to further feminist & Marxist goals. Why aren’t you?”

    http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/04/28/the-american-lei-feng/#comment-147341

    An “actual” MRM would be disastrous. The solution is MGTOW, which is more than compatible with game and anything else you promote.

  97. Deansdale August 28, 2012 at 4:08 am

    Let me quote Rob Fedders:

    “The reason I am opposed to Shared-Parenting or Farrell’s Council on Boys & Men is because it furthers the Marxist Dialectic. We could so easily become unwitting useful idiots, giving feminism it’s final, ultimate goal – to take children away from mothers and communally raise them, so that their biology doesn’t stand in the way of their equality.

    And fuckin’ eh, I’m opposed to the MRM being Useful Idiots to further feminist & Marxist goals. Why aren’t you?”

    An “actual” MRM would be disastrous. The solution is MGTOW, which is more than compatible with game and anything else you promote.

    [I repost this comment without the link because it seems to have stuck in a filter.]

  98. Infantry August 28, 2012 at 6:01 am

    I’ve picked up girls on 5 continents (outside Emporio too if I’m being honest) during long sabbaticals overseas and while I’m still tied to my job here in my western country, I have done the PUA thing and ‘saved’ myself. My screening is tight and its highly unlikely I will be screwed by the system via false rape, divorce, oops pregnancies etc etc.

    I’m interested in MR because I want to give something back and help those who come after me. This is called legacy and its part of my mission.

    Yes, someone sitting in their basement keyboard jockeying isn’t the best way to help, but its better than nothing. MGTOW is better because it starves the system of slaves. Ex-pat is probably the best (next to Paul Elam style martyrism) as you don’t even pay taxes to prop up the matriarchy.

    Look, I get that you’ve basically marked yourself worldwide by feminists for giving men the tools to free themselves at significant personal cost. Still, how does it benefit to kick the guys that haven’t given as much?

  99. Apollo August 28, 2012 at 7:18 am

    Ehh, I wouldn’t say MRA stuff is totally useless. It helped with my introduction to the red pill, really slammed it home against some pretty tough cognitive dissonance. But now that the red pill is taken… yeah, not so much use any more. The attitude of victimhood and learned helplessness is palpable at some MRA blogs, and it can be very depressing to spend too much time there.

    Basically, once you believe and understand that men are getting screwed you don’t need to keep hearing about it, you need to start thinking about what to DO about it. And even if MRAs actually did activism (they don’t) I don’t think this would be the right way to go. This is because the majority of people are either too stupid to think beyond PC cliches in order to believe that men are getting screwed or they know its happening (or can be made to understand) but just don’t give a shit, or are actively benefiting from it. And even if this wasnt the case, and things could be changed by any method other than a complete breakdown and rebuild of society, that change would come too late to make a difference in any of our lives. I have no interest in breaking my ass to better things for future generations, I have no kids and don’t plan on having any, and my society is actively discouraging me from investing in it’s future, so why would I? I just want to get the most out of my short time on earth that I can.

    Given this, what is needed is a personal response to dealing with the issues facing men, and this is where PUA and to some extent MGTOW become useful. But MRA? Now that im aware of the problems I face it’s of no further use to me.

  100. JS August 28, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Pretty pointless post, Roosh. Yeah, some of the MRA bloggers come across as pathetic. So do some of the PUA/game blogs. What’s the point? An MRA blog could just as easily put up post saying game is dead because all the game bloggers are hormonal teenage losers obsessed with pussy. It may be true in some cases but it doesn’t mean that game is useless.

  101. Rick August 28, 2012 at 9:27 am

    @Mage you take this shit far to seriously.

  102. @Rick August 28, 2012 at 9:57 am

    @Rick that was a totally pointless and not constructive DHV from you. Trying to impress some feminists?

    I will interpret it as you validating my point.

  103. External August 28, 2012 at 10:07 am

    I agree with Apollo. I used to spend a bit of time reading A Voice for Men, and there are some good articles there. Paul Elam in particular is a good writer. However, sometimes after a reading session I would feel like committing suicide lol. Way too much doom and gloom and the world is coming to an end so I hope the collapse comes soon talk.

    Their rejection of all things Game was a big turn off to me as well. They shot themselves in the foot with that stance.

  104. Dave August 28, 2012 at 10:19 am

    I disagree with Roosh in that I do think the MRM is needed. It seems that Roosh doesn’t think the MRM is needed because he doesn’t care how society as a whole fares. As long as he is able to go around the world getting the girls he wants, he’s satisfied. I do care how society is doing, ergo I want there to be a MRM. OTOH where I strongly agree with Roosh is that the MRM, as it now stands, is more or less inert and passive. What the world needs, and what many of us want, is a strong, active, determined, fighting, public MRM (well, what I want is a viable enemy for feminism). We don’t have that yet, but I think it’s too soon to close the books on the hope that we will get one. I wonder if Roosh would respect a movement like this.

    All this being said something I can’t understand about either PUA or MRM is this: What is this obsession with women? In his article, Roosh seems to equate ‘Penis in Vagina’ as Roissy calls it with happiness. I just don’t get that. I’m certainly no PUA, I’d be clumsy approaching a girl in a bar, but I’ve gotten laid a few times in my life and notwithstanding the momentary rush of the experience I didn’t find them to be a source of happiness. I don’t think a woman can *give* me happiness, nor can she take it away.

    The MRM is also obsessed with women but in a different way. It’s obsessed with how women are ‘victimizing’ them (I put victimizing in quotes because it’s both true and much exaggerated at the same time as Roosh says).

    I admire what Roosh is saying in this article — despite everything life is good, it is positive, it is all there for the taking if you’re willing to go for it. This is a great message. I’m just disappointed that its culmination is: happiness is sleeping with a beautiful woman. I think what we need is a kind of synthesis of Roosh’ positivism and the MRM focus on things that are more important than getting laid.

  105. asdfasdf August 28, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Okay, so let me get this straight… Your exploits of banging girls across the planet is equivalent to taking ‘political action’ , simply because you post about your exploits on your blog?

    Listen to yourself. That’s a fucking joke man. The sad fact is that you are a sex addict and have built your life around it. But that’s another discussion…But live and let live, right?

    I know that you are helping some men with your information, but to argue that your chosen life activity (vainly and hollowly chasing girls through a hall of mirrors) the category of ‘political action’ is nonsense.

    If you had any real balls or real direction and activism, you’d sue the SPLC for putting your name on their terrorist watch list. But you won’t do that because you’d rather keep feeding your addiction.

    An example of a man with real moral courage: Look at Chris Hedges, who sued the US GOVERNMENT over the illegal and unconstitutional NDAA indefinite detention provisions — and won a temporary injunction.

    What Hedges did is real political action, what a man of courage and moral capacity should do.

    I think your blog is allright, I read it on and off, but to say that banging a long string of girls in Eastern Europe is somehow a political act registers pretty high on my bullshit meter.

    And yeah, the MRA movement is not dead, it’s morphing and merging into the anti NWO movement. Who cares what Jezebel says when the US is turning into a totalitarian police state.

    [Roosh: Where did I say I’m engaging in political action? I’ll wait… ]

  106. shiva1008 August 28, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    For a thoughtful and insightful guy, it’s pretty funny that you actually think you are doing something useful to society by engaging in promiscuous behavior, and encouraging others to do the same. You don’t realize what you’re fucking with. This is why Americans are considered pariahs by more advanced societies – you have no scruples.

    By corrupting the women of the countries that you visit, you are detracting from their value as future wives and mothers. Therefore, your actions are not providing an overall benefit to society.

  107. Anonymous August 28, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Most bloggers look back at pieces they’ve written in the past and find a few to be cringe-worthy for one reason or another. This article will be one of them.

  108. x2d4d August 28, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    I think MRAs need to be succinct, punchier, more focused on being useful and less focused on making fun of women.

    They need to define clear problems and the scope of those problems. They need to gather and publish evidence supporting the reality of those problems or else they need to point clearly to the choke-points in the system preventing that evidence from being made public.

    They need propose solutions, address valid counter-arguments, bolster support, and then push those solutions mainstream (eg legal paternal surrender. Rape shield laws extending to the accused, etc.)

    Where the manosphere in general is an ideological backlash against feminism on many different fronts, MRAs should be laser-focused on structural changes. That means facts, evidence, airtight arguments, and a rock-solid moral foundation with constant appeal to virtues everyone can recognize and respect.

    “Equality” is not a rock-solid moral foundation. Men and women aren’t equal. Deal with it, and that includes MRAs.

    “Register-her” has a list of murders, killers, and rapists but they also have the “bigot” category for shaming a bunch of women who have simply written or said things they didn’t like, a tactic that really undermines the credibility of a site that never earned it in the first place. Worse, it gives a reader absolutely no real idea about the scope of the problem. The relatively small list of registered offenders gives the impression that these incidents are actually pretty rare and the whole thing is just yet another propaganda ploy, so why should I care?

    TV and advertising are biased. So fucking what? They reflect society as much as influence it. Getting companies to pull sexist products or advertisements are minuscule, nearly meaningless victories.

  109. Dkirsch1 August 28, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Let me quote Rob Fedders:

    You lost me right there.

    Rob Fedders is a feminism plant, designed to obstruct actual MRA activism, and make the MRM look pathetic.

    His website is a shrine to Al Bundy, for Christ’s sake.

  110. Joey August 28, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    A bunch of misogynists arguing about the best way to hate women. You are all losers.

  111. Stuki August 28, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Mage,

    there is waaaaay to much “unity” as there is, and this self consciously imposed unity, is exactly what has destroyed the West. All “uniting” with someone means, is creating yet another petty social grouping where the asshole with the sharpest elbows gets another ladder to climb. Just look at the disaster that is the contemporary nation state. For 95-99% of men, all it is, is an excuse for the remaining 1-5% to mooch off them, and reduce them to de facto slave status, in the name of “we”, “us”, “our country”, “our people”, “Western culture”, whatever.

    Care about your kin, and about those individuals that have specifically earned your care, be utterly disinterested in most others, and actively cheer on the death and destruction of those that have taken it upon themselves to rob you (through taxes) and bully you (through laws, rules and regulations). You have only one darned life. Why the heck waste it crawling on your knees propping up some careerist, asshole ladderclimber who would never in a million years even know you exist, much less care about you?

  112. BB August 28, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    “Can you guys quit it with this phony “game=HBD” meme. I’m tired of the junk-science racists trying to piggyback on game and pretending it’s the same think as their kook-cult. Not only are they two totally different topics, but they are actually opposites. Game says you can overcome your genetic limitations by working hard and learning behaviors. HBD people claim that working hard and learning behaviors can only do so much, and that genetics determine in the end who is high status and who is low status.”

    Well, thanks for caling me a racist and a retard. In this day and aga, I must be doing something right!
    I don´t see HBD and game as opposites. In fact, your very wording of the two approaches is virtualy undistinguishable. No HBD´er denies that culture and nurture play a role. No Gamer would say that a natural male 5 can become an Alpha. Just that he can improve his chances with some game and the right attitude.
    OTH, many Gamers rely on biology and sociobiology for their concepts (not only Alpha/Bate, but also hypergamy, menstrual cycles, female psychology etc). Can you blame Gamers for turning to science for answers and solutions?
    You´re just scared, for some reason, that we can build up some opposition to the current regime.

  113. Apocalypseman August 28, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    Apollo and JS said it best.

    The MRM movement gave me the wake up call I needed. MGTOW and PUA gave me sme tools to learn how to apply future behaviour. The rest is up to me. You can tell anyone that “pumping and dumping and fucking loads of foreign women” will make you happy. That’s ludicrous.

    Everyone is different.

    There are also some PUAs that are just trying to make money and are absolute clowns. I have witnessed one of these clowns in Budapest with a camera. I immediately recognised him. I saw him stage some scenes while I sipped on my cappucicno. It was painful to watch this guy try his routines. That may be a way to live but it’s not for me. I’d rather accomplish other tangible goals than waste my time pandering for women’s affection. Once in a while it’s fun, but all the time?

    By the same token it’s not cool to sit at your laptop and whine. There are definite,y some MRM bloggers who make me cringe and feel sorry for them.

    However pointing the finger at them is the same as them pointing the finger at “game”. I don’t see what this accomplishes. It just sounds too bitter.

    Pretty sure we all agree on the basic premise that men need to put women on the back burner and look out for themselves. Nobody here wants to bow down to a woman and buy into Hollywood fantasy.

    Somewhere the feminists are laughing while they watch us beat each other up and state how “my way is the right way”.

  114. zed August 28, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Somewhere the feminists are laughing while they watch us beat each other up and state how “my way is the right way”.

    Some feminist actually said that years ago – that they simply did not need to worry about any MRM because men would be too busy thumping their chests and competing with each other to ever accomplish anything. Feminists have been wrong about a lot of things, but I have not seen much evidence to indicate that they are wrong about this.

  115. Rick August 28, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    @ mage and asdfasdf,

    i think the main difference with people like roosh and people like yourselves is probably age.

    Your average young western guy has the potential to live a fucking awesome life.

    Other than if you were involved in a divorce in the states or accused of rape,(most guys i know havnt been accused of rape) i dont think it affects young guys to much.

    Your middle aged dudes well, for the most part if you didnt live life when you were young then your fucked.

    Young men who are enjoying their lifes just dont give a shit about some scorned old mans noble cause to improve mens rights.

    Question to both of you, have you ever had your dick inside a hot chick raw for free before.

    Its fantastic.

  116. Anonymous August 28, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    “Question to both of you, have you ever had your dick inside a hot chick raw for free before.

    Its fantastic.”

    You’re a tool bro, and I’m a young guy who’s had his dick inside a hot chick for free plenty of times.

  117. Bob August 28, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    MRAs educate and inform men about the evil of today’s women, today’s media and today’s law. This is the first stage of activism and it’s working. Less men are getting married, less men are begging for pussy.

  118. tufforama August 28, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    “By corrupting the women of the countries that you visit, you are detracting from their value as future wives and mothers. Therefore, your actions are not providing an overall benefit to society.”

    You obviously haven’t read his latest story from Riga. If anything, Roosh is giving you a warning map hand tailored to Western bitches. If you want a warning map hand tailored to Thailand bitches, read Stickman, http://www.stickmanweekly.com/StickmanReadersSubmissions.htm . Anyone who doesn’t want to be forewarned about the country they live in/wish to visit is an idiot.

  119. Anonymous August 28, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    I don´t see HBD and game as opposites. In fact, your very wording of the two approaches is virtualy undistinguishable.

    Congratulations then. You prove my point that HBDers are either intellectually dishonest or stupid if you find that wording virtually indistinguishable.

    No HBD´er denies that culture and nurture play a role.

    Except when they do. Which is very often. Give me a break. Plenty of HBDouches say that culture and nurture play a minimal role and genetics is by and large the most important. MINIMAL. They say all the time that while culture and nurture play a role, it makes very little difference overall and genetics trumps everything. Yet whenever you try to pin them down on a definition, they keep changing it from debate to debate.

    No Gamer would say that a natural male 5 can become an Alpha. Just that he can improve his chances with some game and the right attitude.

    Plenty of gamers DO say that such incredible transformations and upgrades are possible. Have you seen some of the outrageous marketing and claims of some PUAs? Have you seen Mystery’s Pickup Artist show, and their attempts to turn male natural 5s into guys who bang strippers and hotties? How many PUA books, blogs, testimonials, workshops claim “looks don’t matter?” A ton! Well if looks don’t matter, but mannerisms, canned lines, learned responses do matter, then they’re saying genetics are practically irrelevant. Not all gamers make such extravagant claims, but at the very least they all claim that genetics does not trump everything. After all, if you’re results were largely determined beforehand by your genetics what would be the appeal of game? How could they sell workshops and products for such expensive prices?

    OTH, many Gamers rely on biology and sociobiology for their concepts (not only Alpha/Bate, but also hypergamy, menstrual cycles, female psychology etc).

    Well yes, I agree with this. Gamers do rely on science very often. What does that have to do with HBD, which is about as scientific as a religious cult? I’d put it more on the level of scientology than science lol. Stop trying to equate hbd with science.

    Can you blame Gamers for turning to science for answers and solutions?

    I’m not talking about gamers turning to science for answers and questions. I’m talking about HBDers trying to associate their loony kookery with game. HBD isn’t science, it’s magical thinking for aspie tards. Why do you keep bringing up science when I’m talking about HBD, which is more like a religion?

  120. sonofnewo August 28, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    You couldn’t be more wrong, Roosh. Men’s Rights Activism will not manifest itself in men’s rights college programs or in men’s rights protests. That is what women do–grasp for attention from the powers-that-be and from government.

    MRA manifests itself an entirely different way. Dropping out. Men create society and maintain society, so to change society, all men have to do is to stop doing anything. (Women leech off of society so their activism strategies are entirely different.)

    MRA blogs create a rationale for dropping out. Where a man might feel guilty or small as a result of his impulse to drop out, MRA blogs provide a rationale and a reason for following his impulse. Stop working, stop protecting, and drop out. Then see how necessary men are.

  121. John D August 28, 2012 at 11:13 pm

    From most sources it sounds like Juliane Assange (or however you spell his name) of wikileaks is a total alpha.

    I remember reading an article that detailed how he went to dinner with a long-term couple and by the end of the dinner Assange went home with the woman. He’s had a long casualty list of pumps and dumps.

    And look at him now: facing charges from a fucked up feminist inspired legal system in which if you engage in a pump and dump the woman can have you strung up on her buffet choice of charges.

    You should thank your lucky stars some guys aren’t using sinking their cocks as a way to bury their head in the sand and think of the bigger picture, or this country would shortly be following sweden and your balls would be in a vice on some unhappy pump and dumped sluts say-so.

    There’s already talk about removal of the presumption of innocence for rape and a bunch of other shit.

    Look at what daddy justice is doing in the name of men’s rights. What he is doing is definitely not inaction, and neither is a lot of the mra.

    There isn’t even any overlap between MRA’s and PUA’s, why piss on the guys brave enough to actually defend your rights?

    Because Paul Elam doesn’t think you’re shit? If you don’t think he’s shit either, then what’s the issue? Are you butt hurt or something?

  122. Alex August 29, 2012 at 12:10 am

    Who associates you with the MRA movement?
    MRA is a political movement, which is not making headway because most men solve their problems individually, rather than as a group – it’s much easier to avoid entering into any legal contracts with women and their nanny state than to spend your life fighting for men’s rights. MRAs were too dumb to avoid such entanglements and now have to look for a political lifesaver.

    Now PUA is a social game to make the best of the current environment – nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn’t say that dumping loads in a series of vjs equates to a political activist, so both MRA and PUA can do their own thing without worrying about the other.

    I hold a EU passport, living in the USA for a number of years now and I’ll tell you the none of the twats on either side of the Atlantic are worth busting a sweat over – yeah, the American chicks are more disgusting(fat, sweaty, tattooed, loudmouthed) but the Euros will catch up in 5 years or so. The Brits are already there. Last time I was in London I prayed for the sun to explode and cleanse it of dumb, publicly intoxicated bimbos.

    If you want something better, go East. Viet girls are gorgeous, though I’ve also seen some gorgeous South Koreans, but Cambodia has a business visa for $500 a year – you can live in the country and renew yearly, and you don’t even have to have a business – places you in Asia without the hassles of immigration if you have the yearning to travel/live all through Asia.

  123. Anonymous August 29, 2012 at 12:46 am

    The issue with MRAs is that they are seen as losers by the mainstream. They are usually divorced unhappy betas that were eaten up in the divorce court by some femicunt.

    Also to most men under 30, being a Men’s Rights Activist is the equivalent for an attractive young woman to be linked to hardcore feminism. It’s a negative image that denotes low status so they shy away from the label.

    Young guys want to get pussy, they aren’t concered by divorce courts and custody battles.

    Also the youth already have MGTOW. It’s called being a social outcast and playing video games and watching sci-fi with your fellow omega/beta friends. Dudes are trying to escape this fate not run towards the adult version.

    That being said, MRA does need to exist. There needs to be some form of political pressure applied to the government to counter act feminist agendas. It just needs to evolve.

  124. Joey August 29, 2012 at 2:00 am

    Paul Elam doesn’t defend shit besides his own ego.

  125. Mage August 29, 2012 at 3:12 am

    @ Rick

    You absolutely don’t get it.

    I have never paid for sex in my life and my women have always been model quality. Most of them ended up spending more money on me then me on them.

    After a man has acquired all the women he wants a man starts to value company of men as only men can understand each other. Women are for sex, entertainment and housework. But men are there for common quest to answer the great questions of life, for common busyness, for real friendship for many things above mere amusement and ego boosting.

    I believe you are rather inexperienced if having penis in free pussy is something special to you, for me its default since long ago and I walk further and bother myself with more advanced problems. I have long stopped searching for pussy, pussy comes itself easily for me. I find greater pleasure in meeteng men with awareness beyond mere egoistical hunger and establishing frienships based on spiritual connection. Age is irrelevant here, level of conciousness is relevant. I am younger than Roosh, btw.

    I will tell you what – power in this world comes from connections. And while connections based on egoism dissolve easily and can turn against you – connections built on spiritual grounds are everlasting. This is mafia built on spiritual ties not on blood ties and it is the mightiest force in the world. To achieve you must value true UNITY when all members LOVE EACH OTHER AS THEMSELVES. Only men can do this, if you let single female in it falls apart therefore church has failed in bringing this message to the world.

  126. Mage August 29, 2012 at 3:31 am

    @ Stuki

    What you describe is not UNITY. You describe unions based on some egoistical core – for country, idiologies, common interest, against common foe and so on. They all fall apart or become corrupted when their goal nears completion or even before that.

    UNITY is when you and all persons who are in this UNITY LOVE EACH OTHER AS THEMSELVES and for no material reason. The only reason is that you share a common spiritual level above the mere egoistical hunger that drives common people to betray each other for the small rotting pieces of egoistical satisfaction. This can be done only among great men who have tasted enough of women, fame, money and all the ego fulfillments this world can bring. Nothing satisfies us any more everything is pointless if you cannot unite with your fellow man.

  127. Gary August 29, 2012 at 8:01 am

    So what the fuck do you care about MRAs? Whats it to you?

    Again, youve embarrased yourself a second time on this topic.

    Have you not heard of Glen Sacks or Fathers and Families? They both have made progress for Mens rights.

    Unfortunately some men are stuck in the usa for good and their only option is to try to make it better.

    And it may take a civil war to make it better again.

    So you think they are losers.. ok fine.. then

    Why dont you simply fuck off and leave them alone?

  128. Rick August 29, 2012 at 10:14 am

    @ 119, that was real hurtful of you.

    @ mage, your always banging women who are model quality, thats pretty damn good man,iam 21 years old, iv fucked 31 chicks, id say 4 were munters, 2 or 3 were intimidatingly hot and the vast majority were very much bangable.

    Yes i do find it a very big deal when i get to put my dick in one of their vaginas.

    So what your telling me is that if i get enough pussy of hot chicks ill get bored of it and become some nutjob more interested in making spiritual friendships with men?

  129. BB August 29, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    HBD IS science. For example, Roissy links constatantly to peer-reviewed studies. Scientists like Greg Cochran, Harpending, Peter Frost, etc, aren´t kooks. Check them out!

  130. Ollie August 29, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    I firmly believe that the principles/body of writings of the MRM and the body of research/writings on Game are the two theoretical foundations behind fighting the current situation. Those within the MGTOW and PUA movements are putting those respective foundations into action.

    There will always be a need for active disassociation between the two camps, because they are working on two entirely different fronts – the MRM aimed at men who are (deliberately) out of the SMP, and Game aimed at men still active within the SMP.

    At the end of the day it is necessary for Elam to throw a few shots at the Game-O-sphere’s bow, so to distance himself from a movement with related objectives but a modus operandi that scares away many of his potential allies/followers. Similarly, the (at times) whiny rhetoric of the MRM can be nothing but a drag on the healthy function and image of the PUA sphere, scaring off any potential adherents to the Venusian arts.

  131. David August 29, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    The first part of Roosh’s article is correct. If MRAs don’t do any activism, they ARE useless. Where are their organized efforts to overturn the laws.

    Roosh is not disputing the cause of Men’s Rights. He is pointing out, correctly, that so-called MRAs never do any activism.

    However, the second part of Roosh’s article gets sidetracked into the same useless debate. Whether Game is worthwhile to learn or not, depending on a man’s age and libido levels, is a personal choice. The metric of ‘approach a woman’ is not necessarily the right one for an MRA who is 50 years old, has two kids who have been taken from him, and has been ruined by the law. Such a man has an entirely different set of concerns in life.

    But yes, pointing out that MRAs don’t do any activism is the main point, and a correct one.

  132. Anonymous August 29, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    HBD IS science. For example, Roissy links constatantly to peer-reviewed studies. Scientists like Greg Cochran, Harpending, Peter Frost, etc, aren´t kooks. Check them out!

    HBD isn’t science. It REFERENCES real science, then uses it to create compelling, semi-plausible fiction. Star Trek and Doctor Who often do the same thing. Referencing science and creating fiction from it isn’t the same as actually being science. Next you’ll say something is science because you saw it on Battlestar Galactica.

  133. Paul Elam August 30, 2012 at 2:38 am

    One has to wonder why Roosh would even write on this subject, targeting men he thinks to be losers when he is already so thoroughly ensconced in all that pussy and magnificence.

    The point? Roosh depends on painting himself as superior so he can peddle vagina acquisition self-help to guys who really are insecure with women. And it is MRAs that are like COSMO readers?

    Sure, yeah, whatever.

    I am not saying that is all bad. And I am sure that Roosh is being honest when he says he gets thank you notes from guys who say his writing has helped them. And I am sure some of them actually have been helped. I get the same emails, lots of ‘em.

    But it doesn’t change the fact that there is a reason this article is about bashing MRAs instead of his standard fare about shooting his copious load into two eastern European perfect 10’s a day. And that reason is no different than the other ways he paints himself as a god. He will always be pointing at other men and shouting loser, because that is how you sell yourself, and your products, to men who feel inferior.

    Maybe it helps them, maybe it doesn’t. Either way, that’s the shtick. It should come with a plaid jacket, a bow tie and a cheap cigar.

    It is the habit of a many PUA’s and Gamers to have the occasional outburst about how superior they are to MRAs. And hey, if they need that sort of thing to feel better, they should go for it. We have thick skins and they seem to need the boost in self-esteem.

    But any way you look at it, whining on the internet about guys whining on the internet seems a pretty lame pastime for a guy who prides himself on a face full of smegma and an audience to clap about it.

  134. jack August 30, 2012 at 4:14 am

    I’ll go to Poland. While they try to change the minds and culture of 310 million Americans with their WordPress blogs, I’ll be hitting on pretty girls in a Croatian bar.

    So game no longer works inland and you decide to take your custom abroad. You’re right in doing so. The money wasted on picking up 2nd choice girls in the West is better spent on a holiday where 1st choice pussy is available, cheap … and doesn’t require any game to be got. But the men’s rights movement is not only about saving one’s own ass. It’s about lastingly improving the fate of all men, including those who can’t afford to go abroad. Plus, do you think the fems will stand idly by while men become expats in increasing numbers? As a US citizen you have to pay taxes abroad. The pension funds are broke, how long will it be before men’s pensions are indexed on local (3rd world) standards of living? Whenever you travel, you could do worse than take along a few MRA leaflets or stickers with you, just to hedge your bet.

  135. boss_monkey August 30, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Take the feminists down by any means necessary. We want our birthright, they have stolen it.

  136. Mage August 30, 2012 at 8:49 am

    @ Rick

    Yes, if you are working on self-improvement, then surely. If you are in this just for hedonistic life then maybe no.

    I, myself have undergone a complete personality turnaround at least two times after age of 21, and I am at 27 now. Personal growth comes from questioning what you see as undeniable truth now.

  137. Newly Aloof August 30, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Damn right the MWM is dead. Just loud fish in a small fish bowl.

    I recently emailed a guest post proposal to two big names in the game universe about an article that shows a guerrilla marketing tactic that would get game into the hands of those dudes who need it most. They didn’t respond, which (I hope I’m wrong) leads me to believe they may not care to reach millions of dudes who need game advice, which are outside of their current readership.
    If you’re interested, email me and I’ll send you the guest post.

  138. Tim August 30, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Here’s my understanding of a “Pick Up Artist” …

    If I pretend to be someone I’m not, and provide women with what they supposedly want, then I’ll “score”.

    Hmmm??? …… Nah!!!

    Why not?

    1. I’d rather be myself and fail.
    2. The woman I want to be with isn’t that shallow.

    I’d rather work for equality between the sexes as an M.R.A. Equal rights (especially after divorce) concerning equal parenting, child access, support, male health (including less spent on males, higher rates of suicide, dying earlier, etc.) and reproductive rights (i.e. our body our choice, where is the Male Pill? etc.). These are only a few items of concern.

    Sex is a wonderful things, however, it pales in comparison to the absence of the above.

  139. Rick August 30, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    @ Paul Elam who stated: “But it doesn’t change the fact that there is a reason this article is about bashing MRAs instead of his standard fare about shooting his copious load into two eastern European perfect 10’s a day. And that reason is no different than the other ways he paints himself as a god. He will always be pointing at other men and shouting loser, because that is how you sell yourself, and your products, to men who feel inferior (….)

    …But any way you look at it, whining on the internet about guys whining on the internet seems a pretty lame pastime for a guy who prides himself on a face full of smegma and an audience to clap about it.”

    QFT.

    QFT.

    Another thing I could only add here is the author of this blog dissing MRAs does so for more hits to his site since he knows the MRA issue is something very serious for a lot of men. Its simply a way to increase the viewer traffic to his site.

  140. David August 30, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    Again, this debate is not about whether ‘getting laid’ should be a man’s daily priority. It depends on his age and libido. A personal choice.

    But to see Paul Elam post here, and not address the main point, is lame.

    Roosh correctly points out that MRAs don’t do any activism.

    “I looked in the dictionary for the definition of activist: “the policy or action of using vigorous campaigning to bring about political or social change.” What political or social change have the men’s rights pamphleteers brought? ”

    Even though Roosh mentions Paul Elam as the one person who DOES do something, I see that no MRA can dispute the truth that Roosh has pointed out.

    MRAs don’t actually do any activism.

  141. David August 30, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    Tim,

    I’d rather work for equality between the sexes as an M.R.A.

    A noble goal, of course. Roosh hardly disputes that.

    But what activism are you actually *doing*?

    None.

    That is the point. You may want those goals, but MRAs don’t really do any activism to fight for those goals.

  142. Nutz August 30, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    I’m going to post what I formalized as my position a while ago when Paul Elam tried to attack “game” by championing his own style of game (get a shower, go meet people, etc).

    Game/Pickup and the Men’s Rights Movement both fall under the larger umbrella of the Men’s Movement that’s taking shape. Both are in response to the social and legal changes we’ve witnesses over the last several decades, largely as a result of feminism.

    While the Men’s Rights Movement seeks legal equality for men and to correct some mistakes brought about by overzealous feminists and the politicians that pander to them, Game/Pickup seeks to give men the skills and tools to operate in the social and legal framework that’s going to be with us for some time. Game is just one flavor of MGTOW. Some guys would rather win the game by not playing it, so they move overseas to less feminized nations. I don’t have a problem with at all, in fact if you’re going to live in the US the rest of your life I strongly suggest you live in a non-westernized nation for at least a few months in order to get some perspective. Others find “pickup gurus” to teach them how to get sex without much investment, or how to find quality women to have relationships with (the end-game goal is entirely up to the practitioner). Again, the usage of Game is only one of several ways of MGTOW.

    Now, my biggest problem with the Game/pickup community at the moment is the lack of infusing their teachings with some key elements of the MRM, chief among them IMO are the issues of false rape accusations and absurd child support calculations, and how fickle women can be combined with how marriage can utterly ruin you if you don’t prepare for contingencies (eg divorce theft), as well as the reality how women get to have choice post-conception, but men only have responsibility. These issues are very real risks for those who are learning how to be social, going to bars, and trying to get laid/have relationships.

    If you are like me and teach Game in one way or another, you need to start advising men of these risks! To not do so is hugely irresponsible as far as I’m concerned. You don’t have to go full MRM, but advising them of the issues I posted above, as well as pointing them in the direction of A Voice For Men, Girl Writes What, and the mensrights reddit are a good start.

  143. MaMu1977 August 30, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/14561314-452/conviction-but-no-tangible-evidence.html

    This guy is going to spend two years in jail for putting his hands in two women’s pants.
    No evidence, no verification of the offender (apparently, the accusers just said that it was “some black guy), no mention of successful genital contact. On top of that, there’s not even the hint of restraint (IOW, its not like the offender dragged either girl into a private area.) And did I mention that neither girl saw the face of their assailant?

    50 years ago, any exculpable testimony (the girl’s sexual history, her status as being of a lower class than her assailant, witnesses claiming that she left willingly, etc.), would be enough to invalidate all but the most violent of rape cases. Now, I guess that its seen as sensible to mandate jail time for playing.grab ass. It is now official that being a dick is a jailable offense.

    MGTOW, all day, every day. There are plenty of places on this planet where phantom pussy grabbing (as both girls claim to have been grabbed at a party, but there are remarkably few witnesses, all feminists), will be solved with getting kicked out of someplace. It won’t end with your face plastered on newspapers with the word “Rape” printed in red.

  144. David August 30, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    Nutz,

    While the Men’s Rights Movement seeks legal equality for men and to correct some mistakes brought about by overzealous feminists and the politicians that pander to them,

    Those are worthwhile goals, of course.

    But how are MRAs ‘seeking’ anything, when they don’t do any activism of any sort whatsoever.

    Blogging along will not get the job done. I have yet to see any MRA whiner address that core point.

  145. Paul Elam August 31, 2012 at 12:53 am

    @ David

    I can not only dispute what Roosh is saying about MRAs not doing activism, but I can credibly assert that anyone who really keeps up with current events would hold their tongue on that one.

    And not only is it incorrect to think I am the only one doing anything, the fact is that many people are doing much more than me.

    Check out SAVE and their highly organized efforts to push for VAWA reform and to expose the problem of false allegations. They have been lobbying The Hill for years now. I won’t write an article here about their efforts, but they are well documented at the saveservices.org website, and they are in fact making real progress.

    As a result of AVfM, there are many on the ground groups starting to form in several cities. Vancouver and Edmonton both have new groups with nearly a dozen members. Another has formed in Hamilton, Ontario and Seattle.

    Are these new and still developmental efforts? Of course they are. Everyone has to start somewhere. And in a society that absolutely reels at the mere mention of the words “men’s rights,” it is a very difficult task to undertake.

    After all, there is no penis pass. White knights don’t come out of the woodwork to help us. Just the opposite. Shit, we even have people like Roosh, who hold a lot of the same beliefs about feminism, trying to shit on us for simply existing.

    If you want to point out that our efforts are nascent, and have a long, long way to go, you won’t hear me disagree. But to say nothing is happening in the MRM is like looking at the space program in 1962 and mocking them for not being on the moon already.

    It was 70 years between Seneca Falls and the 19th Amendment, and another 50 years after that before gender feminism raised its ugly head and started fucking up the lives of men.

    This is a slow bake oven, not a microwave. But we will continue the work to find our legs, even if people like Roosh want to get a leg up on our backs.

    1. Roosh August 31, 2012 at 4:37 am

      Paul: You can’t carry this movement on your own. Your followers don’t care for real change, whether political or personal, they just want an online venue to vent. You’re leading a group of guys who, in the end, are not going to put in the work necessary for success. I stand by what I write that men should work on their own interests first.

      If you want to build something, you have to go after mainstream men instead of just waiting for the dissatisfied to come to you.

  146. Jake August 31, 2012 at 5:44 am

    That’s probably how Ron Paul feels, trying to make a difference in U.S. politics.

    Men are the root of the problem, as part of the USA current cultural phenomenon. What did you do? You left, man. Why’d you leave? You know the answer to that.

    It’s like preaching about digging in when the tsunami is about to hit. The men’s movement is no movement anymore than my bowel movement is a movement.

    Feminists and fat chicks own the blog voice: http://www.cedonulli.com/feminists-fat-chick-blogs/

  147. MeWantHoneyComb August 31, 2012 at 8:15 am

    “They are not forcing me to live in Washington DC.”

    Speak for yourself. For the past 12 years, the federal govt has done everything in its power to dismantle the private sector in favor of the public sector, making people from slightly less soulless regions move to the Femicunt Reich that is Washington DC, and make natives (like myself) who want to leave stay.

    If Roosh or anyone else wants to give advice to how to get away from the male version of Auschwitz, let me know. Just working in this fucking place takes away any energy to initiate any sort of game.

  148. Fucking Serious August 31, 2012 at 10:52 am

    AT ROOSH, RESPECTFULLY:

    Elam is correct when he states that MRM has a way to go when we will see progress. He was also is correct to state that feminists took 50 years before it started to ruin the lives of men. Heck, Most men still think feminism is a silly, harmless thing, and at times laughable. They are sorely mistaken.

    There is a concerted effort to control men in the states via the oppressed woman and children card. And most men simply do not have the means of getting out of Soviet America.

    You should avoid burning potential bridges. What happens when writing about getting laid becomes illegal? When you go to use your ATM card somewhere in another part of the world only to discover your account was frozen because a bunch of global feminists decided you were some kind of scumbag, and got law enforcement to go along with what they wanted?

    Dont believe me that this is plausible? HAH!

    Then you come back to the States to resolve the situation only to have your passport confiscated permanently and ordered to jail to appear in court for imaginary trumped up bs where you have not violated any law but the judges make shit up as they go along. Now you are stuck in feminazi America and embedded with the Mens Rights losers you despised, and these are men that could potentially help you. Maybe not today, but the Mens Rights Activism will grow, it has to as long as there are men who still believe in the constitution. Just stick to doing what you do and leave the Mens Rights guys be.

  149. Nestorius August 31, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    “They were faced with a choice: spend all their free time on blogs or approach a god damn woman.”

    Why does it have to be two choices and only?
    Why don’t women approach them for example?

    If men want to get out of this hell, there is only one alternative: to destroy (i.e. kill) those who are imposing this system on them.

  150. Mystery August 31, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Roosh stated: “Paul: You can’t carry this movement on your own. Your followers don’t care for real change, whether political or personal, they just want an online venue to vent.”

    There will come a point when the screws get to tight and the MRM will consists of waay more men, and men of action, not just net based whiners. But guys like Elam, Sacks and Fathers and Families are establishing the infrasturcture.

    …And we are headed for war.

  151. Paul Elam August 31, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Roosh,

    I do what I love to do, every day of my life. I don’t always like it, but I love it. I can’t imagine doing anything else. I am sure you feel the same way. 🙂

    But there is a fundamental problem with your understanding of activism, both in terms of its inception, and the fuel for motivation to action.

    All activism, throughout human history, begins with people under pressure to be silent, talking anyway. It is certainly not everything that needs to be done, but it is the one unavoidable prerequisite for anything of value to happen.

    And if your eyes are open, you should be able to see it happening. Honestly, for a man of your intelligence, I am baffled by the idea that you honestly think nothing is happening.

    In my last comment I gave some examples of what is happening on the ground with activism, some of it spurred directly by AVfM. I could give several more, including a just announced small but radical change in the DV paradigm in Australia, here:

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/updates/news-updates/good-news-from-1-in-3-campaign/

    I could provide much more, but you are not addressing the first ones. They smash the central thesis to your article, that MRAs are not engaging in activism.

    The real thing for me here is wondering what your real point is in doing this. Why would you be concerned that men are gathering online to vent about injustices they have faced? What is your payoff in dissing it?

    Please fill me in on why you think this is important so that I can have a chance to interpret it as something other than gratuitous self-aggrandizement.

    When the SPLC attacked you as a “hate site” I pointed to the stupidity of such an action in my responses to them. I certainly don’t think that makes you owe me any loyalty, but I do think you owe it to your readers to dish out a little more intellectual honesty than they get when you claim we aren’t doing anything, and refuse to address the examples of action that are provided to you.

    Do as you wish, bro. In the end it won’t matter. I am glad you are giving men an alternative to the typical brainwashing provided by society and biology. I don’t agree with a lot of it, but I still think it is better than the world will hand them on their own.

    But I also hope you consider that the MRM is not anything like you seem to think it is.

    Right now, among our contributors at AVfM, we have men who are married, single men who have regular sex, college guys who like to get laid, a lifestyle swinger, and oh, women.

    Some of our readers have sworn off women, and when I hear their experiences in life, I understand why. But painting us as a bunch of anti-sex bitter boys is a canard every bit as tired and shopworn as what feminists throw at us.

    There are better footstools for you, Roosh. I hope you will see the wisdom in using them instead of MRAs.

  152. Anonymous age 70 August 31, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    It is stupidity and ignorance to say MRA’s have never done activism. Starting back in the 60’s when feminists started taking over there were MRA activists, picketing, writing legislators.

    I did a total of around 10,000 hours from 1984 to 1993. Wrote op-eds to newspapers. Visited our state’s governor. Picketed out courthouse.

    And I was in contact with men all over the country who were doing the same thing.

    So, why don’t you know this? Because the mainstream media refused to cover it, just as they refused to cover Thomas Ball, and the police reports which show Obama’s birth certificate and other documents are photoshopped.

    During my 10,000 hours fo activism, a steady stream of “men” called me a loser. I have learned that one can tell real losers with one word they use for people they know nothing about. And, that word is loser.

  153. Jordan August 31, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    Paul,

    I just don’t see the activism that you claim is vibrant and abundant.

    I mean, you yourself stopped updating register-her.com. It has not been updated since Oct 2011.

    Why did you stop? It was a great resource, and everyone, including Roosh and myself, would agree it had real value. It probably even deterred actual false accusations of rape..

    Why have you stopped updating it? Or have you delegated that, and not checked in on it. If so, you should know it has not been updated since October 2011.

  154. Paul Elam September 1, 2012 at 4:26 am

    @ Jordan

    You might consider your reading comprehension skills to be the problem here, or your integrity. I never claimed the activism was “vibrant and abundant” Don’t put words in my mouth, it’s a liars game.

    The only adjectives I used were words like “nascent.” If you don’t know what that means, look it up. You will find it means neither vibrant nor abundant, but pretty much the opposite.

    Doesn’t matter though. You are clearly ignoring the examples provided. so no more point in discussing this. I try to save my dialogue for people who debate honestly.

    As to register-her, you have not a clue what you are talking about.

    Cheers

  155. zed September 1, 2012 at 9:45 am

    I see this same argument raging a couple of dozen places around the net right now. It appears that man are balkanizing into half a dozen “tribes” of mutually hostile social, cultural, and political values.

    It is that phenomenon alone which accounts for the fact that no coherent Men’s Rights Movement has ever gelled. Terms get flung around with no agreed-upon definition behind them. If MRAs were a political party, we have spent the last 40 years arguing over what our platform should be.

    For someone who understands politics, that should not be surprising. The favored method of the human race throughout history for resolving such conflicts over what people believe is to reach for the guns – and before guns were invented, spears, knives, swords, and clubs.

    In the US, slavery existed for 300 years before it got ended by the bloodiest war in US history. It took a lot of Abolitionist Activists dying to even reach the point where the war broke out.

    Pointing out that MRAs have not made much progress because they have not already solved the problem politically without having to resort to the ultimate form of activism – war – is silly.

    There have been tons of good MRAs over the years doing what they could to make a difference – without guns. Every last one of them got taken down by the very men whose rights those MRAs thought that were fighting for.

    A guy like Paul Elam stands up, tries to do something,and “men” from all over the place attack him because 1) he is not doing things exactly like they would do them, if they had done anything, which they never do, and 2) he hasn’t already solved the problem so they wouldn’t have to be bothered with it.

    I quit being any sort of MRA because I got so sick to death of having to argue with men over how to split a hair 10,000 different ways. I got so sick of listening to armchair quarterbacks bitching that the free beer wasn’t cold enough, that I quit serving it at all.

    With a handful of people and a little spare change, Paul Elam has launched the most successful Men’s Rights initiative to date. Do “men” appreciate that? Hell no!

    Instead of pitching in and adding their own “activism” to his effort, men just pick at him and piss him off enough that he feels the need to come over here and defend what he is doing to the very group he is doing it for.

    If “men” were a football team, the opposing team would not even have to put anyone on the field because they spend all their time and energy tripping their own ball carriers instead of blocking for him.

    What I don’t get about “men” is why – if they are so certain that their way is the right way – they don’t just go do it and leave everyone else alone. Instead of spending their time doing what they claim they believe in, they spend it attacking every man who is not a clone of them.

    There are lots of good MRAs, but there is no MRM. Men won’t allow one to get formed, because every time some MRA starts to get some traction, other men take him down.

  156. Anon September 1, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Good post but ultimately I’ll ignore it.

    MRAs have their value…it takes time to turn a ship. Politics is about long term patience.

    Roosh,you’re not impressed with long-term strategy…well, that’s because you’re a young guy with little politician or organizational experience.

    It’s good that you’re lashing them though. A little criticism can help a lot.

  157. Carl September 1, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    ROOSH:

    1.”And if your eyes are open, you should be able to see it happening. Honestly, for a man of your intelligence, I am baffled by the idea that you honestly think nothing is happening.”

    AND

    2.”When the SPLC attacked you as a “hate site” I pointed to the stupidity of such an action in my responses to them. I certainly don’t think that makes you owe me any loyalty, but I do think you owe it to your readers to dish out a little more intellectual honesty than they get when you claim we aren’t doing anything, and refuse to address the examples of action that are provided to you.”

    THESE TWO THINGS. NUFF SAID.

  158. Orton September 1, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    Paul,

    I checked on it myself, and register-her.com has not been updated since October 2011. It says so on the website itself, and everyone has noticed this.

    Why is it no longer being updated?

    For example, the woman who accused Brian Banks, Wanetta Gibson, is perhaps the most well-known false accuser in recent months, but is not on register-her.com .

    Why has the site stopped registering new offenders?

  159. David September 1, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    I, too, am concerned as to why register-her.com seems to have had no updates in nearly a year.

    I am also dismayed that Paul Elam, in comment #159, denies this, even though HIS OWN WEBSITE says that it was last updated in October 2011. How can he deny this in the face of irrefutable evidence on his own site?

    It was a great resource. I hope it gets revived in the future.

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  161. Anonymous U September 2, 2012 at 6:37 am

    Hey Roosh, 4 years ago PUAs were writing books that included such great pieces of advice as “Don’t lie or misrepresent yourself to a woman, especially about your age” (Give it a few years if you don’t think this is bad advice).

    There was so much overlap with feminist ideology, what women would approve of, that the PUA scene is in deep debt to MRAs for helping them to REVERSE previous PUA principles, thus getting laid more often. There’s been enough written about how the PUA scene was overly pro-feminist in the past.

  162. John D September 2, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    This article is analogous to a man on day 2 of a new workout regimen (MRA’s) and a critic (Roosh) telling him since he has no results yet to just give up. lol

  163. Paul Elam September 2, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    @ Zed

    “Instead of pitching in and adding their own “activism” to his effort, men just pick at him and piss him off enough that he feels the need to come over here and defend what he is doing to the very group he is doing it for.”

    LOL, but I am getting better. A year ago I would have dedicated an article to this. It would have really upset me.

    I figured out that is part of the solution.

    I’ll give Roosh his due, but I am not going to use AVfM to wage a public battle any more over this kind of thing, or bothered being angry by blue pill guys doing what blue pill guys do.

    When I have a disagreement I will keep it at the source, and bring it to the guys with such cutting observations as “You haven’t updated register-her in like a really, really long time, whassup wif dat, eh? eh?”

    In the meantime, we will be helping get corrupt prosecutors disbarred, innocent men freed and false accusers put behind bars.

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/tiffany-marie-smith-behind-bars/

    All in a days work here in the land where “nothing is being done.”

  164. Orton September 2, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Paul,

    Except that you have not, in fact, updated register-her.com. That is evident who visits the site, where it clearly says it was last updated in October 2011.

    Why not explain the situation, rather than become indignant and change the subject when someone points this out? That is the worst possible way to respond.

    Again, you don’t seem to be able to grasp that a lot of us actually WANT register-her.com to be kept alive.

  165. Paul Elam September 2, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    @ Orton

    You’re a dumb fuck that doesn’t know what you are talking about. The October 2001 reference indicates that the particular page in question has not been updated.

    There have been over 200 additions of registrants on the site since then.

    If you have any more questions, hit my donation button and drop a C note in the tip jar.

    I might answer them.

  166. Men: Discontinued September 2, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    Guess you missed the whole PUA – MRA debate huh? You can still find the articles on avoiceformen’s site.

  167. Zerbu September 2, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    I don’t know what stride of thin air the author of that article pulled the idea that the MRM is dead from. With the attacks from the SPLC, and the recent postering campaigns, the MRM has been getting more publicity than it ever has before. Sounds like someone is just posting what they want to be true, even if it’s the opposite of reality.

  168. Zerbu September 2, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    Sorry, what I meant to say is the author of THIS article.

  169. Too bad September 3, 2012 at 1:36 am

    I enjoy Roosh’s writings and have learned a lot from him, but this is probably the worse article to ever appear on this blog.

  170. Orton September 3, 2012 at 3:15 am

    I see that Paul Elam gets super-defensive and rude even to people who support his work like register-her.com.

    At least 3 separate commenters on this thread like the register-her.com concept, and have noticed that it has not been updated in a long time. I pointed out that Brian Banks’ accuser, Wanetta Gibson, is not on register-her.com, even though this is a very well-known, recent false rape accusation.

    Those who politely ask for an explanation are met with either ‘you are a dumb fuck’ or some evasion.

    All this, rather than simply explain the situation to the people who politely ask about it.

    If this is the way Paul treats people who LIKE his work in register-her.com, something is seriously wrong about Paul’s attitude.

  171. Freddie September 3, 2012 at 4:32 am

    Register-her.com has not been updated in months. The ‘October 2011’ date shows up on ALL pages, not just the first one.

    Why can’t Paul Elam give an honest answer to people who SUPPORT THE SITE?

    Instead, he insults his supporters, demands donations from them, or otherwise is evasive about simple questions regarding the status of register-her.com

    It is clear that either Paul Elam is hiding something, or he has delegated this, and has been embarrassed by someone he entrusted to handle the site.

    But Paul’s reactions to legitimate questions has been pathetic. He might do good MRA work, but he has shown himself to be inadequate in other ways…

    If this was the primary guy fighting for Men’s Rights, God help us all.

  172. Zerbu September 3, 2012 at 10:29 am

    @Orton – That’s odd, because I looked through the MRA comments in this article, including his, and I saw completely logical rebuttals. No “you are a dumb fuck” comments though, are you sure you’re not projecting feminist traits onto MRAs?

    @Freddie – You obviously didn’t look at all the pages. Most of the pages linked to from the front page have 2011 dates (not all October) but if you look at other parts of the site you’ll find pages updated this year.

  173. Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) September 3, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Roosh,
    here is my take.

    MRAs are stupid dumb animals in the main. I spent 1.5 YEARS of my life creating the REMEDY for men and then PROVING it in court….I took another year to think about that and produce the Living Free book…and live free myself.

    Do MRAs use this gift of love and generosity to my fellow man? No..mostly they HATED on me for gifting them the REMEDY. What a bunch of losers. Death is too good for them…maybe being turned into fertiliser while still alive is a fitting end. Grind them up to a pulp starting from the feet while still alive and dispense them in a rose garden as fertiliser. THEN MRAs would be doing something useful…they are LOSERS in the 99.7%+ majority.

    I spent USD500,000 and 4,000 hours over FOUR years helping MRAs, creating the remedy and telling them the TRUTH and PROVING all the above. For that I am hated on by the very men who would benefit from using the work I have published. I paid NO alimony and NO child support and even told a judge I would kill him if he locked me up unlawfully for not paying his extortion money.

    NO charges have EVER been filed against me and NO cop wants to talk to me. That has been nearly FIVE YEARS since I told the judge I would kill him if he unlawfully incarcerated me and this is STILL not enough PROOF for men I have done this right.

    MRAs are stupid dumb animals like cattle and sheep and deserve to be farmed by those who bother to educate themselves.

  174. Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) September 3, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    PS. If the links are not moderated? I am the only man in the world to do THIS and NO MRA has emulated this feat in nearly THREE YEARS.

    What a bunch of gutless losers. I thought MRAs would be PACKING COURTS with video cameras inside a MONTH of me doing this. But they are too gutless to even stand up for their right to video record a court meeting. Gutless bastards who deserve everything they are getting. That is what MRAs are.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL7KT4FkA0c

  175. Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) September 3, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    PS Roosh…I am with you…while I have been doing my work and publishing my work I have been dating very lovely women….my fav#1 is Ukrainian and they certainly know how to treat a man well. I dated a czech woman who was the most lovely woman I ever met in my life. These were such wonderful experiences I could die happy tomorrow knowing that not 1 man in 10,000 has had the same experiences.

    I also created Crimes Against Fathers and we are ready to put all members of the Australian and Irish Parliament on trial and remove them from office.

    Today I am releasing a video on the declared state of war on the land known as Ireland. All along the way MRAs were nothing but whiny bitches in the 99.7% majority. I was told that at the outset but I thought I would try anyway…the average MRA isn’t worth a pinch of shit. Bernard Chapin is bz far the best one out there and he makes it CLEAR that he is presenting his views and facts and NOT trying to change the world.

    Me? I am transforming the world for men who choose to be members of the Mens Business Association. All honest men of honour and integrity are welcome to join.

  176. John Rambo September 3, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    GREAT article, Mr. Roosh.

    While I was creating and promoting my Boycott American Women blog (which was featured on a few national radio shows, thousands of websites, and is estimated to have reached around 50 million people with a message of anti-feminism), I was also living in India (I am originally from America and am white) and was dating and banging hot village girls and eventually married one.

    The real trick is to just GET OUT OF AMERICA. America is hell on earth. MRAs that sit on their ass whining, I hope they all are killed off by the Illuminati as the useless eaters that they are.

  177. Mike September 3, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    With all due respect, seek professional help.

  178. Orton September 3, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Zerbu,

    Clearly you didn’t read the comments.

    #170 from Paul Elam starts out with ‘you are a dumb fuck’ in response to a polite inquiry from someone who actually WANTS register-her.com to be revived…

    Paul Elam got defensive and rude for no reason.

    Now, you too have been corrected.

  179. Freddie September 3, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    Zerbu and Paul Elam,

    Don’t give me that crap.

    Show me actual LINKS of any THREE pages from register-her.com, that were updated in the first half of 2012.

    Any three links. If you can provide them, I have been proven wrong.

    If you cannot, it seems Paul is telling baldfaced lies, and is clearly hiding something.

  180. Zerbu September 3, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    @Peter – MRAs are dumb animals? Actually, quite the opposite. MRAs go against many destructive animal instincts and are intelligent human beings. Interesting anecdotal evidence you have there, but the exception doesn’t disprove the rule.

    @Orton – You implied that he ONLY said “you are a dumb fuck”, when even that individual comment said more than that.

    @Freddie –

    http://register-her.com/index.php?title=Criminal_conduct&action=history
    http://register-her.com/index.php?title=Tiffany_Smith_–_Domestic_Violence_False_Accuser&action=history
    http://register-her.com/index.php?title=Paula_Trent_–_Domestic_Violence_False_Accuser&action=history

    Well, those are actually updated in the second half of 2012, but that’s even later.

  181. Freddie September 3, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    Zerbu,

    Only one page, the Tiffany Smith page, was from 2012 .

    The others you showed are from 2011, especially the long list in the first link….

    I asked for three. So far, you have provided just one.

    Two more to go..

  182. zed September 4, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    @Paul,

    “LOL, but I am getting better. A year ago I would have dedicated an article to this. It would have really upset me.”

    Yeah, I know, Paul. But, the free beer is never going to be cold enough.

    Roy den Hollander launches another lawsuit, Thomas Ball burns himself to death, and … Wait! Did you see the rack on that chick??!! 😉

    If “activism” is defined by marching in the streets, what did the Occupy movement accomplish?

    Don’t you, yourself, confuse the MRM with MRAs. We would have probably accomplished more over the years if we had not had the compulsion to drag the dead wood along with us.

    Don’t waste your time defending yourself to people who do not understand the history and politics of the situation. Save your time and energy, and your best left hooks, for the people whose shit you really want to fuck up.

  183. John Rambo September 4, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    “who do not understand the history and politics of the situation.”

    And I guess we have to be on the government ABC agencies payrolls to understand the situation, right Paul?

    (I’ve heard evidence that Paul Elam is on the payroll of the government).

    To all the men here? You really think the MRM wasn’t infiltrated and subverted, just like the Illuminati has done to every other movement? It’s called CONTROLLED OPPOSITION.

    Paul Elam is the Alex Jones of the MRM. They are both disinfo agents.

  184. ron September 5, 2012 at 6:27 am

    What I would like to see is a discussion between Roosh, and Paul Elam. Not a debate, but a discussion of ideas on where things can go, what could be done, what could be criticized. That can only help.

    For example, what Paul says in his article criticizing game is not false. There is an emptiness in sport fucking (that’s how a friend of mind describes pua).

    Here is his quote: ” Stripped of values and consciousness and the ability to be circumspect, they have turned feral; so unable to form community or embrace brotherhood that they have shrugged off the desire for either.”

    This isn’t false. Krauser has made similar points on his blog as well. So has heartiste, and Roosh has also expressed that kind of sentiment in the past. It’s something we need to consider and think about.

    On the other hand, not one word Roosh has written is false either. We ARE men. To sit in a basement and type away at a keyboard is not enough. Part of being a man means fucking women. That’s a biological reality, it is a part of our psyche.

    This, as paul points out, is a nascent field. We have a lot to learn, discussion and respectful argument help us.

    Btw, I don’t much like everything Paul says. For example, I think his and John’s articles against circumcision were vile. Circumcision is ancient practice that is both sacred to Jews and harms no one; I doubt many people would say the Jews are failures in civilization.

    Also his “register her” page is a bit over the top.

    But that’s fine. I don’t think it’s a bad thing for a man to make a point, ESPECIALLY if I don’t agree. It’s good to shake the pillars of society.

  185. ron September 5, 2012 at 6:32 am

    correction:

    When I say “roosh made similar points”, I wasn’t referring to the whole quote. I’ve read at least one article by Roosh where he expressed bitterness for being mistreated as a nice guy. Being a nice guy who is about to give up on that, I didn’t think that article was sarcastic, because I feel the same way.

    Also, I have read an article where Krauser talks about how many PUA’s lead empty existences. In effect they are not about brining themselves up in value, which was why he started a second blog to talk about that sort of thing.

    And anyone who has read Heartiste has read how he insists that an sexual free-for-all culture cannot stand for very long

    The problem I have personally with Pauls’ quote is that what he says holds true for ALL of Western Civ. If anything there is more brotherhood among PUAs then I see outside of it. At least they have a common goal that they help each other reach. I don’t really see that in many other places.

  186. Men Discontinued September 5, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    So then, what do the smart PUA’s of the world propose? Go fuck every woman in the world? Go fuck the judges if we get hit with false rape accusations? Seduce the courts?

    You guys have your heads up your ass so far you believe getting women is all there is in life.

    Naw.. open your eyes to what’s really going on behind the PUA scene for once. See that social change can be made, but know that it is a slow cook, it doesn’t happen overnight.

  187. Durant September 5, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    First of all, Paul Elam is a fraud: http://goo.gl/ryAYn This has already been proven.

    Second, you’re right. Most MRAs are just passive-aggressive, whiny, manginas. Little boys thinking they can guilt-trip women into changing. They’re never going to accomplish anything until they realize that they are the problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4zSRkBMPng

    Third, men today don’t understand the importance of exercising their male authority: http://manhood101.com/ebook.html

    Even PUAs (pickup artists) who claim to have solved the riddle of the female psyche fail time and time again due to a lack of authority.

  188. John D September 5, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    Wrong Durant:
    The direct involvement of mra orgs placed the #1 feminist fuck-over men law into jeopardy.

    http://www.immigrateme.com/vawa-reathorization-struggle-continues-in-senatehouse-conference/

    Thanks to direct involvement from MRA orgs, VAWA reauthorization was stalled out as senate repubs passed their own version that protected due process for men, freed DV services for male victims and overhauled the corruption of the law.

    This revised version has been in opposition against the house version with no reconciliation yet as I have heard of.

    Even if feminists succeed in getting the manhating version of VAWA reupped, feminists now know that there is *real* consequence for endlessly shitting on men.

    Does the MRM have a long way to go, yes. Nobody from the MRA camp has been denying that. Is progress being made very slow, yes nobody is denying that.

    But to say there is no activism being done is point blank horse shit.

    Look what happened to Julianna Assaunge who is facing rape charges simply because he acted like an entitled douche (alpha) and pumped and dumped.

    America is on course to be the next Sweden. There is already talk of taking away presumption of innocence in rape trials. Soon, it may only take 1 disgruntled entitled princess who realizes she was a pump and dump and all her pleading will not bring him back to ruin your life legally with a Sweden-style “rape” allegation.

    Did you leave your brain in your other suit or fucking what?

  189. John D September 5, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    @191 Ron:
    You can’t exactly say that circumcision hurst *no one*. About 100 baby boys die in America each year from circumcisions.

    The tally is actually most likely much higher as circ complications like bleeding to death or serious infections leading to death do not list circ as the source, but rather hemorrhaging etc..

  190. John Rambo September 5, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Peter wrote:
    “MRAs are stupid dumb animals in the main. ”

    This is one of the wisest statements I have ever heard.

    Henry Kissinger said “Military troops are dumb stupid animals”. So are MRAs. So is anyone who refuses to think for themselves.

    I will laugh my ass off if the Illuminati ever starts culling their flock. They literally are dumb stupid animals. NOT HUMANS!

  191. John Rambo September 5, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    PS. The latest commenters here who have been whining “You PUA guys are a bunch of assholes” PROVE Roosh’s point.

    Roosh wrote a very moderate article but he is just expressing his disgust that the majority of MRAs refuse to do anything useful and all they do is sit on Facbeook all day whining and posting MRA pictures on each other’s walls.

    You guys that are hating on Roosh are simply proving his point and proving that you totally misunderstood what he is trying to say.

    Good job you dumb, stupid animals.

  192. Men: Discontinued September 6, 2012 at 1:54 am

    This is retarded. Just goes to show that PUA just cares about themselves first. Fuck everyone else in society… let it fall to the ground but hey, I’m gettin laid bro!

  193. Men: Discontinued September 6, 2012 at 1:57 am

    Good one Durant.. block and delete anyone that challenges you on that video… hilarious

  194. DarkTriad September 6, 2012 at 7:40 am

    “The change we wish to see in the world is 1) have sweeter girls ….”

    Game and having your shit together makes every girl sweeter.

  195. Anonymous September 8, 2012 at 6:44 pm

    @john d

    Makes sense John, so in the spirit of protecting the children from bad parenting decisions, i suggest we ban bicycles (225 fatalities in 1998), swimming pools (678 deaths per year), cars (27 died frombeing locked in cars), bb guns, and anything else that can possibly cause harm to the angels.

    In fact, lets wrap them up in big rubber foam suits and have chains around their legs so they cant run too fast. We should also cut down all the trees, because some poor kid might get it into his head to climb one, and oopsie! He will get hurt.

    Normally you write well (im assuming this is john the other), but on this issue you are being an asshole.

  196. Ron September 8, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    @john d

    Makes sense John, so in the spirit of protecting the children from bad parenting decisions, i suggest we ban bicycles (225 fatalities in 1998), swimming pools (678 deaths per year), cars (27 died frombeing locked in cars), bb guns, and anything else that can possibly cause harm to the angels.

    In fact, lets wrap them up in big rubber foam suits and have chains around their legs so they cant run too fast. We should also cut down all the trees, because some poor kid might get it into his head to climb one, and oopsie! He will get hurt.

    Normally you write well (im assuming this is john the other), but on this issue you are being an asshole.

  197. Will Jayroe September 9, 2012 at 6:51 am

    The bad part of it is this…whether you’re a Roosh or a Men’s rights activist what you are doing is ultimately within the framework of women. The one thing I haven’t seen much of is a guy doing his own thing, indepedent of and regardless of what women are doing.

    You don’t really see the guy going off, earning money, buying whatever the hell he wants having the experiences he wants but not in the least bit concerned about vagina. PUA and MRA are intrinsically connected by what? By women. You show me the guy that doesn’t give shit number one about women, feminism, vagina, getting his rocks off, how cool he is to himself, personal status or any of the other contructs we’ve built to service our egos in light of women and I’ll show you a very dangerous man.

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  200. be careful, roosh, you might be an idiot September 10, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    “There are 684 woman’s studies programs in the United States. How many men’s rights programs have the MRPs helped instate? Zero. How many pro-man laws have been passed thanks to the work of the MRP? None. How many real victories can they claim? Not one.”

    You know what they called “men’s” studies until the 1970s? STUDIES. There are 684 women’s studies programs because women were largely ignored or repressed in academics until recently. But in order to know that you would have to read a book that wasn’t written by a talk show host.

    And do you know why there are no pro-man laws? Because most laws are pro-man. I know, I know, not ALL of them are pro-man, some are biased in favor of women, so you need to cry about being repressed, like a Nazi worried that Jews still have the right to breathe. Look in the mirror – this is about hating women, not men’s rights.

  201. SammyJohn123 September 13, 2012 at 10:59 am

    http://www.jack-donovan.com/axis/2012/07/everyone-a-harlot/

    “…Andy Nowicki wrote that if men really wanted to undermine the matriarchy, they would stop fucking. He may have his own (possibly religious) reasons for saying so, but I think he has a point.

    Our feminist, globalist handlers would love nothing more than to keep young men — the most dangerous and potentially revolutionary group in any civilization – completely distracted by tang. And while it may feel like asserting dominance (in conveniently the most harmless way possible), if everything you do is designed to make you more appealing to women, you’re an eager vibrator. When your muscle is just for show, when everything you do is to make yourself more desirable, you’re playing the female role. When your worth as a man depends on how many women you can lure to your loins, you’re just a gigolo…”

    There needs to be more awareness of Jack Donovan and his work on reclaiming masculinity and the way of men. He really percieves the larger context of these disparate men’s “movements”. It’s about men trying to discover what it truly means to be a man in a highly feminized world. It’s about men reclaiming ancient masculine forms and virtues.

  202. Pingback: A Quick Word on the Men’s Right’s “Movement” « Starting Young & Aiming High

  203. Anonymous September 16, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    Every man should gain an understanding of Game, in order to better understand female psychology.

    But gaining an understanding of Game does not oblige you to adopt the PUA lifestyle. An awakened male has many potential lifestyle choices, depending on his values, talents and resources. PUA is one, MGOTW is another (although they’re not mutually exclusive).

    For some people the PUA lifestyle may be too much effort for too little reward. Some may find that other pleasures in life are more rewarding uses of time, for example crochet, blogging or teaching dogs how to perform tricks. Look down on these people as losers if you want, but there isn’t a fundamental need for hostility between the two positions, it just means less competition for PUAs. And when you’re 80 you may find yourself more interested in the MGOTW lifestyle than the PUA lifestyle.

    But in order for men to avoid a lifestyle as a miserable beta slave, they need to understand female sexuality and understand that there are other lifestyle choices available. This is where the MRM comes in. The MRM isn’t going to find success through political activism or direct action any time soon, but it still performs a great service for men; making them aware of the nature of female sexuality and making them aware that there are alternatives to life as a beta slave. Raising awareness, as an earlier poster said.

    PS: Most less popular political movements are finding it very difficult to accomplish anything within the system nowadays, so the MRM isn’t alone.

  204. Anonymous September 30, 2012 at 1:12 am

    The other day, my Twitter account had been hacked into and the hacker was trying to spread a virus to my computer. Luckily, my computer was not affected. I found out from Twitter that the identity of the hacker was Paul Elam, founder of a Voice for Men. This in my opinion makes the Men’s Rights Movement lose all credibility. He probably thought I was a feminist conspirator, although I have no idea why since I have never claimed to be a feminist. I did read an article, however, stating that in 2011, Paul Elam offered his readers a $1000 to hack into people’s Internet accounts to get their identities.

    How could Paul Elam and the rest of the MRM expect people to join their cause and sympathize with them when they are hacking into people’s Internet or social media accounts and trying to spread computer viruses? The MRM is not a movement, and never will be. Feminists have plenty of flaws, but at least they were a movement.

  205. Rich September 30, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    I once believed, but thanks to Drunk driver I don’t even know (and the U.S. that backs him) who took my health away and gave constant life altering daily Pain, ruined my life, and the truth I have learn about women from my circumstance. That is what matters to them about a man (MONEY and whether a man has a lot of MONEY, or enough to at least qualify). And it doesn’t matter how nice of a man you may be, it’s all about the MONEY! I’m NOT stupid! If women insist men have to answer for all of our short comings, and if we’re equal as women insist, them women need to start answering for all of their short comings too or get off their queen of sheba box they keep standing on! Equality is NOT a one way street! And all people who were poor, whether man or women, were all repressed and NOT listened to. I’m tired of this one way street hate man society we now have; well yah I guess if you have MONEY it’s different. As things if your a man or women, with big bucks (real big) in your pocket and the bank, different/good. I am also tired of hearing the word Love used, though the truth of it is really far away from this present society. If MONEY is what truly matters, then speak MONEY, NOT the word Love! At least it would be the truth.

  206. Pingback: Things Gentlemen Do; Or Its Better To Be Strong Than Smart | Society of Amateur Gentlemen

  207. Bubba October 6, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    What an idiot. I think you’re projecting your own sexual insecurities onto men who have none. MRA’s have a lot more to do with father’s rights , equal treatment in regard to military service, etc. I think you jerk off a bit too much.

  208. Pingback: MGTOW v MRA V Game V Christianospherists v Acronymists… | Reflections of the Age

  209. Pingback: The Manosphere & Danger « 22to28 :: Don't screw up

  210. Pingback: Why Black Men Don’t relate to The Men’s Rights Movement « The Soloist 2.0

  211. SixShooter December 15, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    How embarrassing for almost all of you here. Let me just be mushy for once and say it outright:

    You need to grow some humanity.

    As a generally awesome and revered person, I am here to warn you, not that 98% of you will heed it.

    If you fail to stop watching your porn, you will eventually act out what you orgasm to. Sexual violence. M

    ake a wrong move around someone like me- and the ranks of us grow every day…you should SEE it!- then you will receive a swift “Game” Over.

    Oh darn it you guys. I failed to mush. Maybe next time, but probably not.

  212. Mens Rights Movement (@MensMrm) December 17, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Hahahaha. I think the movement is most successful movement in the history of mankind. No movement have attained this much success in such a short span of time. The movement will change the social mindset in less than 10 years…. the movement will bring freedom to men after thousands of years of slavery.

  213. Glengarry December 28, 2012 at 8:17 am

    US marriage and sexual relations have by ratcheting law and custom become appallingly unjust and oppressive. They must be changed, and as far as I know, only MRAs are working in that direction, in their own ineffective fashion.

    MRA is a political movement, so there will be collectivist elements to it. Live with that. In fact, I’d suggest the strict PUAs adopt the old leftist device and simply act like “no enemy to the left” or “team woman”.

    Infighting is sometimes that you want to curry favor (in this context, DHV WK-style) but I think here basically a sign that you and your group believe yourselves to be dominant and don’t have to take other factions seriously. I don’t really think that’s the case for US men anymore.

    MRAs need to step up their efforts, though. At this point, it’s mostly anonymous griping and urban legends, which act as a support group for those screwed over by the system. But will anyone still in the matrix and listening to the MSM really believe what these sad sacks are telling them? What’s needed for MRA to progress into a real political force is greater awareness: naming real names, case studies and articles, fighting the power in the open and probably some dirty tricks. (How about Alinsky’s “rules for radicals”.) Then start fundraising.

  214. Pingback: Hanna Rosin Wants YOU To Become An MRA

  215. fidelbogen February 5, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    The problem with this post, and the entire comment thread that follows, is that “MRA” is a figment of the author’s and commenters’s imaginations. There is no consensus on what a so-called “MRA” actually is, so in the end it becomes clear that each speaker is describing a strawman mental construct. And nothing more.

    All right, some historical context. “MRA” started life in the 90s as a convenient umbrella term for anybody who was mad about how men are being treated under the feminist regime. So anybody who roughly matches that profile may be broadly considered an “MRA”. Are you with me?

    Now, as for PUAs. . . they have shown that they are unwilling to be symbiotic, and to integrate themselves as team members within the pro-male cause. I mean, jeez, it could have been a happy, productive situation, but certain people didn’t get the memo — or else they didn’t read it very carefully.

    Roosh would be a case in point. The “MRA” that he speaks of is very clearly his own mental strawman and nothing more. It is clear that the pro-male scene outside the borders of PUA-land is terra incognito to him. He is PUA-centric, as the majority of PUAs tend to be — and that is just the problem. PUAs (such as Roosh) want to consider themselves THE vanguard of all things pro-male, and that attitude is, well….toxic.

    And… not to be tolerated.

    So listen up, Roosh and Co. You must make up your fuckin’ minds to call yourselves “MRAs” in the broad sense of the word, and accept the brotherly code of mutual respect and solidarity with ALL men (not just the pussy-chasing kind!).

    And after that, you must “shut up and listen”, and learn, and extend your horizons to embrace the entire pro-male scene.

    Or, if you prefer to chuck the term “MRA” altogether, that’s fine also. But if you do, then you should completely stop using that word in any way or form.

    To summarize: EITHER embrace the label “MRA” in a spirit of solidarity with ALL men, and integrate yourselves into the team, OR. . stop using that word in any context whatsoever.

    Personally, I’d just as soon drop the word MRA altogether, since it only seems to generate confusion.

    All right, are we clear?

  216. fidelbogen February 5, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    Hey Roosh, an afterthought. As a gesture of good faith and good will, why don’t you do the following:

    1. Delete all copies of the offending post (from 3 years ago).

    2. Post a general notice to the effect of, “I was an asshole for writing that article, and I apologize”.

    If you can manage to do that, you might finally command some respect from non-PUAs, and get a better response out of them.

    And you might even begin to rehabilitate the image of the PUA community.

    Give it a shot, dude!

  217. ZimbaZumba February 5, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    This article misunderstands how grassroots movements form and how activism evolves. Movements just don’t say let’s be activists. The Civil Rights movements had been around for decades before it became a powerful activist force.

  218. fidelbogen February 5, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    Zimba Zumba, yes. Roosh V is about the last person on earth who can pretend to have any authority on such deep subjects. He should stick to talking about bars, clubs, “bitches” and so on. When he goes over his head (as he has done here) he looks silly and does everybody a disfavor.

  219. vanguard March 9, 2013 at 6:07 am

    This post barely scratches the surface and shows the utter ignorance of the poster.

    In a recent poll the most important topic for the people who self identify as MRA is to be able to spend time with their kids.

    You seem to work with some assumption that sexual prowess is going to save you from alimony or being alienated from your kids over the course of years. You seem to think that sexual relationships with women your barely know is going to influence genuine long term issues like the unfair legal system of whatever country you’re from?

    So far, you have not been burned by our system, maybe you never will be. Consider yourself lucky then and move on. But don’t try to tell those who have been that they should try to improve their gamme, because it sounds like you’re just being an insensible asshole. Not all problems magically disappear because you penetrate some “hot polish girls”.

    — Vanguard

  220. John Rambo April 5, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    Vanguard:

    Any man STUPID ENOUGH to marry and have children with an American/western woman DESERVES TO GET SCREWED.

    Okay?

    I am 28. I was intelligent enough even by age 18 to know that I never wanted to marry an American woman. Okay?

    I spent a shitload of time, rather WASTED a shitload of time trying to “help men” by promoting my Boycott American Women blog. In return, what did I get from you fucking maggots? I got hated on.

    The SAME MEN who hate on me for speaking the truth, that they should BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN and go fuck and date foreign women, are the SAME FAGGOTS who are getting screwed over in divorce and in custody courts.

    You have ZERO SYMPATHY FROM ME, because I tried to help you retards and you hated on me for wanting to help you.

    I am now living a bad ass lifestyle in Southeast Asia, and this place is pussy galore. BEST WOMEN ON EARTH here. While YOU, a fucking moron, are stuck in America, paying child support to some bitch that divorced you. YOU were too stupid to accept my advice. NOW YOU SUFFER THE FUCKING CONSEQUENCES, YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT. You get zero pity from me, faggot.

  221. Pingback: Women hold up half the sky? That’s so cute, dearie | Random Reading Notes

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  236. Nham Thien Duong December 25, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Today is December 2013, and officially, the Men’s Rights Movement has opened a College class of ”men’s studies”, we have been making our first victories this year, and the Men’s Rights movement is not about getting a woman, it’s mostly about losing the children you conceived with the woman who walked out of your life, calling M.R.A.’s losers who can’t get girlfriends while they fight for the right to see their own children is a contradiction.

  237. Mike Schonewolf December 27, 2013 at 4:13 am

    Roosh while you were making fun of Lindy West (yet again) MRA’s were flooding a college;s rape report site making false claims like the malicious women do, and using exposing the double-sword of anonymous rape accusations. While you were banging international sluts, MRA’s were helping men by constructing men’s studies centers, and funding the falsely accused, and building men’s shelters. MRA’s (and to a larger extent, MGTOW’s like myself) have been unplugging and waking men up, while you have been teaching men how to catch syphilis in Cyprus. Now can MRA’s have game? Of course, there are men MRA’s like Bernard Chapin and W.F. Price, and Jack Donovan, who have learned game, but getting men out by exposing feminism is their first priority.

  238. Pingback: Feminists and Manospherians are the Same Beasts, but With Different Snow Jobs and Demographics: 02 | Home Is Where the Hate Is

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  240. FrJanos October 9, 2014 at 5:58 pm

    By hooking up foreign chicks and selling books you certainly improve things – for yourself. Good for you, but by this you don’t do any more for a change than those MRP-s you condemn.
    Do you think all your fellow American men can go abroad to get laid?
    And how long do you think it will take for East Eurpe to “catch up” with western feminism and produce the same entitled bitches as the American women? In case you didn’t know there are houndreds (no exaggeration!) of feminist organisations in those countries too with lavish founding (mostly) from the west and are working hard to change both the laws and the mindsets of people. And are quite succesful with that. A woman today can almost as easily and effectivly ruin one’s life with a false rape or DV accusation in any post-socialist country as in the USA and family courts are no less misandrist.
    You probably don’t notice much of it becouse you are considered both rich and exotic in these countries and also have a certain level of protection as an American citizen. So again, good for you, but what you are doing, apart from pamphleting, is escapism not activism, and won’t bring about any positive changes. And the next generation of Americans probably wont have those oportunities that you have now becouse Eastern Europe will change too. Maybe they can go the China.

    Ps.: To demonstrate the situation, recently in Hungary, for one proven rape and one ridiculus allegation in a university freshmen’s camp, the entire student self-goverment had to resign, many students have been suspended and the university forbade the organistion of freshmen’s camps altogether. (Also all the feminist organisations went apeshit and the mainstream media got flooded with their bullshit.)
    This is the situation in the “less feminist” Eastern Europe in 2014.

  241. fadista November 14, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    Hey, Roosh, just because the MR(non)M are a bunch of whining losers, doesn’t mean you’re not an asshole, too. There’s plenty of swinging dicks like you around carrying on the masculine bullshit that feminists, rightly call you out on, such as:

    “At the same time I was complaining that American girls are fat, I was blasting inside Polish girls with perfect bodies. I tell men how to sleep with such women.”

    This is laughably sad. That you need to “blast inside” a “perfect body” to prove you’re a man only proves what a shallow, loser you are. And when women write about how to get rich dicks to “blast inside” them, clowns like you bitch about how shallow they are. Laughable, hypocritical, moronic.

    “At the same time I was whining about divorce rape, I was dating a Ukrainian girl who treated me like a king. I tell other men where to find women like her.”

    She treated you like a king, dumbass, because she comes from an even more misogynist country than yours. Had you been brought up a male in Ukraine, you’d likely be even more of a disgusting sexist than you are now. That you are what you are — which is nothing to brag about — is because you were brought up at a time when women were gaining more rights in this country and you were taught to respect them — to a degree — more than they are in the Ukraine. You’ve still obviously got a long way to go. There is nothing enlightened or remotely interesting about yet another guy notching his belt. That you would “teach” other guys how to get women in the sack is so pathetic and juvenile I can’t say anything that could possibly penetrate a mentality so ridiculously immature.

    “At the same time I complain that the American economy is in trouble, I was completing another book I knew my readers would like so that I could increase my income. I provide men with a forum that contains a lifestyle section to discuss money-making tips.”

    Amazing to me that anyone would pay a penny to read your drivel but you’re lucky in you live in an ignorant culture with a good deal of discretionary income.

    “At the same time I was ranting against the Skrillex haircut, I was banging a Lithuanian girl whose hair belonged in a Vidal Sassoon shampoo commercial. I tell men how feminine women are like.”

    Only a narcissist would boast about such behavior and you’re probably lying. In reality, you’re probably what you fear most, a timid MRM advocate who couldn’t get a self respecting, decent woman to take you seriously because you’re such a joke as a man. You’re a “playboy” wanna be. Your attitude belongs to an era that is OVER and rightly so. You’re an embarrassment to any decent, self respecting human being, regardless of sex. Actually, I’m giving you too much credit. You’re simply a bad joke.

  242. Bop Smith December 31, 2014 at 11:43 am

    feminism began in the mid-1800s, It was decades before they saw significant progress. At the beginning they were a fringe group. Change of the political system and culture on issues takes decades a lot of times. Give it time.

    In some areas such as alimony and child custody there has been progress.

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  245. Viki Samoja May 20, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    The men’s rights movement is dead, or will die eventually, because it’s various factions continually insist on bickering among themselves. So what if MRAs did not reach any result, they are doing their own thing and it is cretainly better then being a blue pill chump. Every facet of manosphere has it’s own role, MRAs role will become prominent later, once MGOTW and PUA have done their part, it is the responsibility of PUA to provide a steady supply of jerks so that women do not forget about men, it is the role of MGOTW to deny women a statisfying conclusion once she gets of the “coock carousel” together they may create a population of disenfranchised women that were prommised everything by the feminists and got shafted, this women will preferably go to the web and find MRA movement, that will explain what the problem is, so they may join the MRA, women are the ones who got us into this mess, only women can get us out of it, as much as i love PUA it does not solve anything, it only teaches the best way to make use of the bad situation.