The Pitiful Story Of The Italian Man

I was on my third date with a Russian girl in Moscow. She was quite pretty, feminine, and affectionate. We had passed the kissing and hand-holding stage by the end of the first date, but now I was hitting a wall: I couldn’t get her back to my apartment. She would just refuse and insinuate that she preferred to move slowly. This was most disconcerting, so I tried to gain additional information that could explain the problem and provide a possible opening for me to take advantage of.

“When was the last time you had sex?” I asked.

“Six weeks ago,” she replied. Her answer didn’t quite explain the slowness.

“It was my first time,” she added.

“First time doing what?” Anal, perhaps?

“Sex. I was a virgin.”

My mind was now racing, but not for the reason you think. Previously she told me she dated an Italian man for four years. It was mostly a long-distance relationship, but they spent a considerable amount of time together.

“Wait, you told me you were in a long relationship with an Italian guy,” I said. “You didn’t have sex with him?”

“No I didn’t. I wanted my first man to be with someone I loved. When I realized I didn’t love him, I decided not to have sex with him, and then we broke up.”

“But how about this guy you had sex with six weeks ago?” I asked. “Why aren’t you seeing him?”

“Oh that. I was on a trip to Rome when I met him. He was Italian too.”

“Wow. I feel really bad for the first Italian guy. He waited for years and you didn’t have sex with him?”


“Honestly I wouldn’t be mad if you leave me right now, go to Italy, and have sex with him.”

“He’s actually here in Moscow. He moved here.”

My eyes opened wide. To lose her virginity she bypassed a man who was with her for years and lived in her city, perhaps even moving to it just to be with her, all for a one-time fling with another man from his country while on vacation. She had been sweet and kind to me in every possible manner, but she did one of the more heartless things I had ever heard of, and to her it was completely fine. She broke up with a guy and later wanted to lose her virginity so she found another random man to do the job, and she felt not a drop of guilt for doing so. I have more remorse for flaking on a girl before a date than she did for giving her cherished virginity to a random man she met on vacation instead of her first serious boyfriend.

Any man who hears this story would instinctively put themselves in the shoes of the first Italian chump who got no pussy for all of his effort. We’d feel the pain and anguish of having been shafted in such a way, but tell this story to any girl and we already know what her reaction would be: “So what? She didn’t owe him anything.” And this, my friends, is the difference between men and women. Men believe in reciprocation, honor, and loyalty, while women only follow their feelings to rationalize a complete lack of obligation or burden to kindly repay someone’s prior investment and commitment to them. The lesson from this is to never underestimate any woman you meet, no matter how low her notch count is. If you are not diligent with your game and constantly aggressive with your escalation in the expectation of sexual payment for the good times you provide, you may wind up like the pathetic Italian “boyfriend.”

As for me and the girl, I invited her to my apartment for a fourth date and she provided me with not even a hand job, with no hint that sexual release would come before the next full moon cycle. I decided not to contact her again.

Read Next: What Is The Real Purpose Of Women?


  1. Bullitt September 1, 2014 at 9:20 am

    How old was she?

    1. Roosh_V September 1, 2014 at 9:22 am


      1. Anon. September 1, 2014 at 10:14 am

        Was the fling in Rome a one-night-stand?

      2. Isaac Baum September 1, 2014 at 10:34 am

        I find it hard to believe that she was a virgin until 25-26. She could have lied.

        After swallowing the red pill, I don’t know if a certain ex-girlfriend who claimed to be a virgin at 22 was really a virgin. She did seem inexperienced and felt tight but at this point I believe everything could have been fake. So glad I never married her

      3. Anon September 1, 2014 at 12:49 pm

        “I find it hard to believe that she was a virgin until 25-26. She could have lied.”

        Of course she lied. Anal sex is a staple and popular form of birth control (and to safeguard virginity) in Russia with young girls today. Most of my first bangs with the girls I dated included anal within the first encounter itself. The girls had no qualms about taking it up the ass. They often begin at a very young age, but this is not sarcasm, but a realistic observation. Russian women are accomplished romance novel actresses, they love to talk about love et al, while at the same time fornicating abroad for exotic experience and fun. The female hamster is present in every woman.

      4. Clark Kent September 1, 2014 at 12:52 pm

        I’ve encountered the Russian woman’s romantic monologue before… but their actions go completely against these things they say.

        Here in Toronto the single Russian girls can’t understand why the men wont commit to their slutty two-faced antics.

      5. Anon September 1, 2014 at 12:59 pm

        Totally right. Russian women can be extremely two faced and slutty. But they’re amazing for sexual depravity. Just don’t fall in love with them. Which is actually what a Russian woman wants. She’ll fuck you, blow you, give you her ass to ravage, shower love, etc to make you get addicted to her, and ‘fall in love with her’. You’re falling in love with her is the greatest validation of her femininity as a woman, she must be proud of her charms on men.

        There is a popular saying in Russia :Once a woman captures a man’s heart, she loses interest”. This is the real nature of Russian women. So never show that you’ve fallen for her. Let her give you sex and care to ‘win’ you over. It’s a difficult game to play, because Russian women are difficult to resist.

      6. Clark Kent September 1, 2014 at 1:03 pm

        Thanks for putting my experience into words.

        Fits my experiences pretty well.

        All I’ll add is that unlike some clueless other women, the Russian woman is imo a little more RedPill. She knows that she is going to hit the wall. She knows what men want. She knows the game and plays it a little more mindfully than other women.

        With that said, they are still slaves to their tingles.

      7. Anon September 1, 2014 at 1:32 pm

        I think only village women are red pill or,less educated women. The latest breed of all Russian women are actually very much blue pill, especially the ones in the west. Red pill women understand the worth of men and don’t try to dominate them, either directly or subtly. Blue pill women live life to control men. And Russian women are often obsessed with controlling men, especially powerful men through sex and beauty, even if this control is achieved covertly or subtly. You’re right, they know the game. They know how to seduce men, and what to say to men. They’re possibly the most accomplished exponents of female game.

        Thus, you must be always be alert when dealing with them, when playing the ‘game’ with them. Because more of than not, playing the game with a western woman will rarely result in you falling in love with her at the end of it, but with a russian woman you likely would. She’s simply more adept at making you fall in love with her – which again is a game for her. Enjoy them for sex and pleasurable company or even a staged ‘romance’, but don’t fall in love with them.

      8. BernieGoetzFan September 1, 2014 at 2:17 pm

        So are the Russian men mostly beta when it comes to women? The seem hard in terms of dealing with other men.

      9. Anon September 1, 2014 at 5:37 pm

        They’re not beta. They’re probably just disappointed, and know their ‘beautiful’ women better than we do, just like how an American man knows his woman better than foreign men.
        Read the link here.

        In the end, men rarely escape betaization in a LTR. A woman’s nagging can drive a man to divorce and cheating. Atleast they’re alpha enough not to stick around in marriages where their balls are being busted by their women, in contrast to the way western men usually stick around in bad marriages to difficult western women. They simply walk away from the woman, no matter how hot she physically is. That’s one of the reasons why Russian men are more alpha than western men. They can walk away, without any remorse. They usually don’t have the fear of losing a beautiful woman.

      10. BernieGoetzFan September 1, 2014 at 5:43 pm

        Interesting – thanks for the feedback.

      11. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 5:53 am

        The thing I don’t understand is how some guys, probably the majority, do not tire of fucking the same piece of ass after a few months. I’d be bored of, and not particularly stiff with, a playboy bunny after 90 days. Every woman has a discard date. What is really repugnant is the fact that tradition bonds men to women even as the women begin to become physically repulsive. A landslide of women seem to believe that once they’ve gotten married, particularly after they have borne children, they can let themselves go to shit. And a guy who would not have been caught dead tipping a cow out of a near empty bar at closing hour, drunk though he was, is then found pushing a baby carriage alongside Ms. Dairy Queen, as she ravages a triple scoop of ice cream.

      12. manmade September 3, 2014 at 1:42 pm

        Russian women, beta? Man you didn’t understand anything, it’s the exact opposite, they are very fiery and passionate compared to other women like insipid and dumb American women. Read insightful reply made by ANON to Clark Kent above, he explained the whole thing pretty much perfectly!

      13. manmade September 3, 2014 at 1:46 pm

        BernieGoetzFan, ignore my reply, for some reason I have idiotically read ‘women’ instead of ‘men’ in your message. WTF? lol. My eyes played tricks on me

      14. mikediver September 2, 2014 at 6:24 am

        You are overly optimistic; this is the true nature of women everywhere.

      15. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 5:26 am

        I have taken in mind that romance is the feminine side of man, and pragmatism is the masculine side or woman.

      16. DeCode September 7, 2014 at 10:24 am


      17. DeCode September 7, 2014 at 10:20 am

        “There is a popular saying in Russia :Once a woman captures a man’s heart, she loses interest.”

        That’s a fact everywhere, not just Russia.

      18. JS September 1, 2014 at 6:03 pm

        How far does this extend to Ukrainians, Poles, Romanians,’Estonians, amd Czechs?
        Are they all frauds too?

      19. Anon September 1, 2014 at 6:39 pm

        “The female hamster is present in every woman.”
        – Remember that at all times. Just be careful of the female hamster, just don’t get paranoid though. EE and FSU women can more or less be the same, but Russian women perfect the art of playing or gaming men. The other women are no match to her when it comes to playing men. But that doesn’t mean you can take it easy with other women. Men get burned more because of their complacency and overconfidence with submissive ‘feminine’ women. forgetting that sometimes femininity can also be a part of a woman’s game of wiles.

        And don’t be hasty to pedestalize any woman, no matter how hot she is, from any part of the world.

      20. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 5:22 am

        A woman’s invitation to tap her ass goes something like this:
        “But I’m afraid I might get pregnant…”
        I can recall that when I was a kid I was sternly warned that I had better leave girls alone, because if I got anyone pregnant, it would be my parent’s financial responsibility. If I had more sense, imagination and balls at the time, I’d have busied myself busting ass. You’ve got to admire those Russian boys.

      21. mikediver September 2, 2014 at 6:23 am

        I married a 25year old virgin Filipina. I know her notch count was zero at 25 the only way you can be sure; destructive testing.

  2. Nick September 1, 2014 at 9:41 am

    It shows that “reciprocation, honor, and loyalty” are best applied towards dealings with other men that earn your trust.

  3. Calwinston September 1, 2014 at 9:45 am

    Kanye West “Heartless” comes to mind.

  4. Arad September 1, 2014 at 9:46 am

    That’s some eye opening shit right there. I knew they are different animal with different brain complexity, but still hard to digest this one.

  5. j September 1, 2014 at 9:49 am

    Did you escalate using kino? After kissing and hand holding, I make sure to touch their ass and also stroke in between the legs prior to bringing back to apartment. Also, once back to apartment I remove my clothing as soon as foreplay starts. It is much easier to remove your clothes than theirs. Also being nude puts them at ease to be nude as well.

    1. 'Reality' Doug September 1, 2014 at 3:09 pm

      Seriously? And what seduction books have you written? Doctor, did you try the scalpel on the appendix? That sorta worked for me once in biology class.

      1. j September 1, 2014 at 4:40 pm

        Oh, you have to write a book to know how to seduce a woman in the real world? Keep masturbating while reading your books, keyboard jockey.

      2. Will September 1, 2014 at 9:49 pm

        “did you kino escalate?”

        What a fag.

      3. j September 1, 2014 at 11:52 pm

        “What a fag.”

        Lol. How clever! You must have stayed up all night to think up that one, genius.

      4. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 6:08 am

        It sounds like the foreplay started during your lunch date, if you were stroking her thighs and squeezing her buns early on. Anyone ever tell you, “Get a room!” ? Hope you don’t drop your trousers under a dinner table. Maybe you just unzip your pants fly and free Willy, for the sake of discretion? I was as bad as you in my day, so I am smiling and chuckling a bit. Yah, some guys will never realize how horny a woman will become after you’ve dry fucked her against a wall in a crowded public place.

  6. Keith Swanson September 1, 2014 at 9:59 am

    What do the pimps say? “Everybody gets got”. It’s a numbers game lol. Roosh can take it he’s way ahead on the scoreboard. Always Be Playin’ Roosh lol

  7. T James September 1, 2014 at 10:00 am

    The secret to mastery seems to be able to figure out how to push a woman’s buttons psychologically to make her react the way the 2nd Italian guy did.
    I don’t have to answer bu I know someone does- if they do sell it and we will buy it if it gets results. I think the Tony Robbins NLP stuff may hold the key.

    Also, the more I’m burned by women the less of them I want soul ties with because so many of them are clowns and they have the best SMV between- 18-24 (prime front line combat ages too) after that many become jaded hags with a soulless thousand cock stare. Where can a guy in his 30s get a innocent young white chick to marry and take her off the market before its too late and she’s corrupted.

    1. DeCode September 7, 2014 at 10:27 am

      There’s no hope for you. You’re still chasing white chicks.

  8. Ian September 1, 2014 at 10:09 am

    This story does not surprise me at all.

    Yet more proof to live life the old school religious way and get them and keep them while they are young and innocent. In relation to that I realize our sick central banker ran modern World stops many guys from closing a deal on talent when they’re really young (18-24) due to the debt scam of college to corporate cog game, social arrest due to electronics and anti human Western culture, perversion, distrust, lack of loyalty, a busted economy, etc.

    This is also proof for guys not to develop oneitis by distance and only pursue her if she reciprocates in return. The 1st should’ve said- ok girl ill play that game if you’ll marry me otherwise I’m not going to invest my time in you worrying and waiting like some clown and cut his losses.

    1. Jaaf September 2, 2014 at 2:33 am

      You’re naive. I assume you are under 25 years old. You want to save yourself? Never marry. In 2014 whoever you marry, no matter how alpha you are, you’re signing a slavery contract.

    2. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 6:40 am

      Just because he was waiting to pop her cherry doesn’t mean he wasn’t drilling her in other ways; or slipping the snake to more than a few other women just to pass the time. If anything, the woman was likely sub-communicating that you have to be smooth and inventive with her. If the guy wasn’t balling her in one fashion or another, then there is no way to possibly imagine that he’d move just to be near her. I think Roosh failed a shit test, big time, by projecting weakness, rather than sexual inventiveness, onto the Italian guy, owing solely to the fact that he wasn’t getting anywhere with the woman. He did not associate himself with the anonymous stranger who got laid, he might have had better results if he were to feign being intrigued, and flattered her with the idea that she was a very bewitching and mysterious woman. He did not generate or improvise the psychological prompts, which the situation begged for. Such a mysterious creature, he should have let her know that he’d regret never seeing her again, given that she was sub-communicating that she entertained the thought of cling free, anonymous sex. I do not know you, you are a mystery to me, I am intrigued by you; I regret that I will never see you again. That would have flattered her panties right to the floor. They would have fallen like fish wrap.

  9. Alex September 1, 2014 at 10:21 am

    I think that the underlying chick logic was that if she has to reciprocate for the 4
    years of life of that Italian guy, then she will not be able to deliver the full value of that, and she knows it well. So instead of showing that the check she has written has no coverage in real value, she opted out of the transaction totally.

    Besides, giving poosy for time together, ie: “reciprocate” would make her feel like a prostitute.

    So she rather choose to “fornicate for fun” and feel free like a bird while doing that.

    I my opinion that’s one of the reasons why many unfaithful girls would rather choose to pay for the priviledge of spending time with a masseur, a coach or a diving instructor than to give themselves to a loyal boyfriend who toiled for that with sweat on his forehead fullfilling every wish.

    1. Anon September 1, 2014 at 12:43 pm

      I’ve always maintained this about Russian and FSU women.
      Water takes the shape of the container it’s in.
      Russian chicks can act very conservative when in Russia, but become extremely slutty when abroad. In Russia, they want to fornicate in love, abroad they want to fornicate for fun. In reality, at heart they’re aren’t conservative at all. The Russian woman’s female hamster is extremely complicated and intellectually frustrating to handle even more than an American woman’s. That’s why I’ve always believed, Russo chicks make sexy bed partners or lovers, but miserable spouses in the long run. The divorce rate says it all. They push their men to the limits of their patience within relationships, and a possible reason why Russian men drink and smoke so much.

      1. asshole September 1, 2014 at 12:56 pm

        “That’s why I’ve always believed, Russo chicks make sexy bed partners or lovers, but miserable spouses in the long run.”

        There might be some truth in this statement. Atleast it would somewhat explain the state of many Russian men (and their insane low life expectancy):
        Drinking themselves into an early grave
        Generally failing at life.

        Obviously their women aren’t inspiring them to do better.

      2. Anon September 1, 2014 at 1:16 pm

        Read this article “Divorce, Russian style”.

        Russia has the highest divorce rate in the world, but the causes and consequence of broken marriages aren’t surprising:

        “People themselves, however, say differently. According to a survey
        by the All-Russian Public Opinion Research Center (VTsIOM) conducted in
        130 towns across Russia, only 3 percent of people said that cramped
        housing conditions were the determining factor in their divorce.
        Cheating came first, with 24 percent of respondents attributing the
        downfall of their marriages to infidelity, followed by poverty (21
        percent) and the inability to compromise (19 percent).”

        “According to statistics, every third in marriage in Russia ends in
        divorce in the first three years. People 35 and under account for the
        highest percentage of divorces. But there is another, significant number
        of people who get divorced after having lived together for 25 or 30
        years. Once their children are grown, they see no point in continuing to
        be a couple. ”

        ““In 70 percent of cases, ex-spouses become bitter enemies,”

        – What do you infer?

        Russian women are often materialistically obsessed with the presentability of a man, overriding his other qualities. They wouldn’t mind nagging him in a relationship to work himself to death to keep up with the Joneses. Plus, most important of all – Russian women are bad compromisers in marriages in the long run. They are simply unwilling to pick up the pieces to make a relationship work. In marriages, they often want to subtly wear the pants in the relationship to micromanage everything in their men’s lives. Plus, as the article implies, women don’t have any qualms to indulge in infidelity out of emotional or material reasons.

        In the end, women are the same everywhere. Russian men know better. The divorce rates says it all.

      3. Tomas September 1, 2014 at 4:40 pm

        I’m assuming most interactions with FSU women you’ve had were in the western part of the world. The reason for the divorce rate is that Russian men are too abusive. Simple as that. They are intolerable of almost anything and don’t realize that their women are much better than in most parts of the world. Most of the Russian ladies would make perfect wives if you show an alpha behavior – they would cook, take care of you and be submissive. The problem is that Russian guys go way too far and take advantage of their qualities as feminine women.
        You’ve got it wrong buddy.

      4. Anon September 1, 2014 at 5:29 pm

        “The reason for the divorce rate is that Russian men are too abusive.”

        Read this

        “Cheating came first, with 24 percent of respondents attributing the downfall of their marriages to infidelity, followed by poverty (21 percent) and the inability to compromise (19 percent).”

        Don’t think women are angels there.

        33% of women when it comes to cheating.

        read more

        and from a russian site itself

        Maybe you’re getting it wrong buddy. Take off the rose colored glasses. Women, in the end, are all like that.

      5. Tomas September 1, 2014 at 9:44 pm

        Born and raised in a FSU state. Many of my friends/relatives are there. Have you spend enough time in one of those countries, if any at all? Like many people have already mentioned – women in general from east Europe change quite dramatically when they migrate to wealthier countries. The abundance of money/opportunities/men spoils them.
        Those articles don’t prove much. If there’s any reason for them to cheat, it’s the behavior of their men. You see – many Russian guys simply don’t care that much. They can easily find a new wife/lover. It’s a different world out there – women compete for men.
        I’m sorry that you’ve had a bad experience with a Russian, but I’d say she isn’t representative of most women living there.

      6. Anon September 2, 2014 at 3:17 pm

        I’ve lived 3 years in that part of the world, had been involved in a serious commitment with a local girl in my 20’s. Left the west, took up a job there to be with her and to support her, all in my blue pill days then. The end of the relationship shattered all illusions I had about women there.

        Gamed and slept with around 30 chicks over the next 10 months for casual sex there, Stayed for around a year more, before I left it to move to Central Europe. In the aftermath of my breakup. I believed every new woman I gamed in Russia was different from before, but in the end they all were the same.

        The expat FSU chicks are sure more hypergamous, but in the end the true nature of women remains the same everywhere. I don’t believe in white knighting bullshit like NAWALT anymore.

      7. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 7:03 am

        American men during the 1950’s, and the decades prior to that, could also be described as being abusive in their effort to keep their women from going feral.

      8. melmoth September 2, 2014 at 5:28 am

        Yes. I’ve heard that the wall hits Russian women like a nuclear bomb also. And early at that. I read a post that sounded like the guy knew what he was talking about, saying Russian women are 24 and under, then they vanish. I’ve never been to Russia but have been around them a lot in Asia and back home on the west coast. I simply can’t picture a hot 40 year old Russian woman. My mind draws a blank.

      9. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 6:53 am

        Last I read, the depression and suicide rate for middle class white American men was on the rise. The divorce rate hasn’t dropped, either. But that’s mostly on account of women kicking their men to the curb, and changing the locks.

      10. DeCode September 7, 2014 at 10:31 am

        In other words; they are just like every other bitch on the planet…

  10. Anon. September 1, 2014 at 10:29 am

    There is a vast amount of reasons a woman will not put out. Something as stupid as this probably wouldn’t even occur to you if you tried to compile a list.

    The point is to not mentally masturbate over the reasons why, but set deadlines to protect yourself. My model goes like this:

    Girl from R-selected society where one-night-stands are common:
    First date invite home –> Do everything you can to get her home assuming you’ll never see her again (under unbeatable LMR, properly frame ultimatum which implicitly conveys “fuck, or get the fuck out”. –> Under failure, push her away by implicitly insinuating you never want to see her again, leaving an open cliffhanger to increase chances of second date, which is at best a hail mary –> Second date try again in the middle of the date –> Under failure break the Fourth wall calling out the situation, saying that men and women cannot be friends so you can’t see her again, but you don’t want to spoil the evening so you continue the date –> The rest of the date escalate as if nothing had happened, she has had time to think, she knows she will lose you –> At the end of second date, retry. Under failure, the set is over. –> Sometime you may get a remorse text where she says she regrets her attitude. It is your choice whether you want to gamble on a third date or not.

    Girl from K-selected society where long-term dating is the norm:
    First date kiss –> Second date invite home expecting decline, use decline as excuse to set up cooking night for third date –> Take girl to supermarket then home to cook on third date, if she refuses try several times throughout the date and if still not set it up for fourth date, if still not on fourth date then you must deliver an implicit ultimatum –> Expect unbeatable LMR, but go at it for as long as possible to create the impression she has resisted enough –> Go to sleep then on fourth / fifth date invite her back again and beat LMR –> If you still can’t after all this resistance, you must use an explicit ultimatum telling her that you must walk –> Like before, watch a movie or something with her to give her time to think, then reinitiate escalation. –> If you fail, assume you lost the set and kick her out.

    1. reco September 4, 2014 at 5:41 pm

      Anon really well thought out. You are starting with an assumption. Of R selected society vs K selected. How do you determine this? Is there some kind of checklist or something?

  11. Dawson Stone September 1, 2014 at 10:32 am

    I have zero sympathy for the first guy…any guy that waits more than a handful of dates let alone FOUR FUCKING YEARS is an idiot and deserves what he gets (or in this case didn’t get).

    If you leave your keys in your car while you go shopping it is going to get stolen. Yea, you can get mad at the car thief if you want but you were asking for it. This is the opposite side of the coin for a woman that sleeps with a guy that she just met. Yea, you can blame the guy if you want, but he’s a guy and of course he wants to sleep with you.

    “Men believe in reciprocation, honor, and loyalty…”

    Sure some men do in some situations but plenty don’t. Men sleep with each other’s wives, screw each other over in business deals, take credit for other people’s work…

    Some men are great guys, some are assholes.
    Some women are quality people, some aren’t.

    That’s the fucking world. Good, bad and everything in between.

    1. doclove September 2, 2014 at 3:02 pm

      I think what Roosh meant to say was that, “(A higher percentage of) Men believe in reciprocation, honor and loyalty while (a higher percentage of) women only follow their feelings to rationalize a complete lack of obligation or burden to kindly repay someone’s prior investment and commitment to them. I have found that percentage wise my previous sentence above to be true. I find it to be especially true when it comes to “romantic” relationships although women tend to be better with reciprocation, honor and loyalty in business relationships but still not as good as men on average. Peter Andrew Nolan, a sometimes commentater here and elsewhere, would say that there are almost no women who are reciprocal, honorable and loyal while I believe there is a higher percentage of women who are so than he does. I see that you frequent Black Dragon’s blog. Black Dragon has a much kinder view in that women in business relationships can be expected to act in as reciprocal, honorable, and loyal manner but not in romantic/sexual relationships. I guess you could say I’m in between Black Dragon and Peter Andrew Nolan on this one based on my life experiences and those of the men I observe around me in my personal life. I believe that most men here on Roosh’s site and at Black Dragon’s site as well as other manosphere sites would agree that women are on average less reciprocal, honorable and loyal than men and that is one of the reasons they are on these manosphere websites. I agree with you that there are reciprocal, honorable and loyal men as well as women and men and women who lack these qualities. We are arguing percentages, however.

      1. Dawson Stone September 2, 2014 at 3:27 pm

        How nice to get a thoughtful and reasoned response.

        You might be right, and better to give the benefit of he doubt, but I am not as certain as you that that was what Roosh meant. In general the tone on here is in absolutes. All alpha/manosphere men are awesome and if only it wasn’t for these brain dead (but somehow incredibly clever) whores weren’t ruining everything all would be gumdrops and candy canes.

        I agree we are talking about percentages. I have know tons of men that have dogged woman that have been nothing but amazing to their guy. As in all generalizations, one is always best served IMO to judge each person based on their actions and behaviors and not on what may or may not be generally true about a “blank” person.

        Blacks are 12% of the population but like 60% of professional athletes. That is statistically impossible but for the FACT that blacks are better athletes. NOT racist. Meeting a black guy and saying “Hey, you must be good at basketball.” Racist.

        Same with meeting a young, attractive woman…”you must be a gold digging whore hell bent on my destruction…” Could it be true, sure it could. But it probably isn’t.

        People act in their own best self interest nearly all of the time. Men and women both. If you can simply determine what someone wants, you can almost always tell how they will behave. A women may say she wants to have a career but if you are intelligent and pay attention you will be able to tell the women who wants that from the one that wants to get her Mrs Degree very easily. The one that wants he Mrs Degree will behave accordingly and anyone paying attention will be able to tell. The one that is deceptive is doing so because she wants what she wants.

        This is exactly the same as a man might (and often does) do to get a women in bed. You aren’t going to lead with “under no circumstances will I ever marry or have children.” You might not bring it up and you might deflect (as blackdragon says he does) or you might straight up lie about it. I don’t see the distinction.

        We are more the same than different. Seeing what isn’t there (and being so angry about it) doesn’t help make better decisions. Taking our heads out of the sand and being objective and rational will always lead to better and happier outcome IMO.

      2. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 7:38 am

        A racist believes in racial stereotypes, and it is a psychological truth that it is hard to change one’s beliefs:
        Black men play basketball. Phil is black. Phil does not play basketball. Conclusion: Phil is ashamed of being black… And the stereotype still holds.

      3. Dawson Stone September 5, 2014 at 12:38 pm

        Huh? I don’t get your point at all.

        Beliefs can be changed through objectivity and rationality. It isn’t really that difficult.

    2. reco September 4, 2014 at 5:39 pm

      True words.

    3. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 7:30 am

      The majority of men are driven by jealousy, envy, resentment, fear and greed. They do all that they can to defend their tottering egos. Including scapegoating others, instead of squarely facing their own issues; so that lying and self delusion become second nature to them. And having so little respect for themselves, they are loath to respect any other.

  12. Christopher Bear September 1, 2014 at 10:34 am

    these russian hoez ain’t loyal

    1. anonymous September 3, 2014 at 6:02 am

      Speaking of, check out how prominently Ashley Madison plays a role in the music video for ‘Loyal’ —

      There are a lot of Russian-born women on Ashley Madison in Western cities with big Russian populations.

      Once, AM is available in Russia proper, use will probably skyrocket.

  13. LtCol. Obvious September 1, 2014 at 11:02 am

    Jeez, what a cunt.

  14. Luisaceo September 1, 2014 at 11:55 am

    Wow… It just shows how much of a chump guys can be for a shot at sex with an attractive girl. Also I think the bottomline is to just never take a girl’s words seriously. “I wanted my first man to be with someone I loved” then the next thing you know, she gets rammed by some random Italian dude… always focus on her actions instead. In the end 99% of girls (even the “sweet/ conservative” ones) have a “slut button” that opens the doors to fast sex. If somehow you are not able to press that button (like the 1st Italian man), then its best to dump her fast and move on.

    1. Clark Kent September 1, 2014 at 12:04 pm

      Yeah I think this is basically right.

      I think young men project onto women what they are desperately craving themselves. They believe that a reasonable women would want things like trust, honesty, love, and loyalty.

      Roosh’s story is depressing because we’re talking about a virginal girl here… not the town tramp… And we still see the exact same behaviour.

      1. Deke September 3, 2014 at 8:00 pm

        Don’t ever forget that they were all a virginal girl at one time…

    2. finndistan September 2, 2014 at 3:31 am

      Two anecdotes from my own life:

      Girl in long term relationship, but is angry at the boyfriend not because he abused her or so, no, because he does not love her enough, or some other bullshit which translates to “he does not deserve me”. That translates to “no sex for him till he deserves me”. so she goes out to a bar, fucks a random dude, “did he deserve you?”; “It does not matter, it was just sex”; “So it’s not cheating?”; “No. If my boyfriend would deserve me then it would be”

      Girl, single, good looking, intelligent, from one of the good families in town. Goes clubbing, introduces me to her fuck for the night: the guy is so wasted he can’t remember his own name. No, really can’t. In my then naivete, “There are so many men in the club, you found the drunkest and dumbest?”; “Yea, I want sex, and he can give that to me. He is dumb, so I can leave in the morning with good conscience. If he were intelligent, I would feel used”

      There is a slut button, but there is a bloody rationalization dashboard.

    3. tom September 7, 2014 at 1:45 am

      I could not have said it better. This is exactly the case with most women. They want to sustain value by pretending that they’re “looking” for love but in most cases they are looking for the next dose of excitement. A woman generally start looking for love when they’re options are limited. For example, she’s no longer in that 18-24 years of age range or she’s financially constrained. Then only then do most of them search for “love”. Once limitations are removed, like women with minimal financial constraints in the west or with women openly going out clubbing in their mid 30’s. This is a classic example of water take shape of the container in is placed in.This container is the world and it’s changing fast.

  15. shadey September 1, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    These hoes aint loyal (no they aiiiiint)

  16. Hamsteri September 1, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    In interracial relationships its a bit hard to make calculation who has higher sexual market value. The girl prolly came into conclusion that she was of higher value since the guy moved there.

    1. Anon September 1, 2014 at 12:32 pm

      Not only that, you forget she’s Russian. She knows how to withhold sex till the maximum till she extracts the most out of him. The Italian man should’ve gone for caveman game with her. Touched her, kissed her. I’m assuming he played the dating game too much. He didn’t telegraph he wanted to fuck her, he probably it to happen ‘naturally’ assuming she’d would open up for him. Wrong move. In Russia, you need to let the girl know that you want to fuck her. In modern Russia, sex often leads to romance. The girls open up after you’ve fucked them, not before.

      The gentleman is dead everywhere. If you’ll be a gentleman in Russia, you’ll be the provider clown for her. She’ll put you on the back of her list for sex. Don’t waste time there, initiate, telegraph your intent, and then wait and see what happens. I’ve called out Russian chicks while dating them for their prudish intellectual hypocrisy when it comes to sex. The dates ended badly, but a couple of days later we talked normally. And this time, these chicks were more easier to escalate and eventually seduce. I’ve often used the emotional guilt trip and angry game (calling them out/busting them on their face for delaying sex) with Russian chicks to seduce them. They can be rude with you, but you must be louder and ruder to them, for such behavior. In the end, it’s the sex you seek, not a LTR. You must define what you want with them, because in the end, they’re just women like other women. The Italian chump failed on that part.

      1. Clark Kent September 1, 2014 at 12:50 pm

        As an Italian-Canadian man I think Italian men are having trouble adapting to the new reality.

        Over one generation the family unit has utterly dissolved. In my grandfather’s generation, divorce and family breakdown was utterly unheard of and Italian men are only now getting the picture.

        I feel like other cultures have already experienced this jadedness… Russian and Asian men that I’ve known have had this feeling since they were teenagers. Me and my western European friends were the ones out of the loop.. and we’re paying the price now.

        The trouble I’m having right now is I’m just not even motivated anymore. I’ve been having sex 80% of the time since I was 15 and now at 27 I just don’t have the same tenderness for women that I used to. It has been very difficult to take the RedPill and I’m not even quite sure that “taking the RedPill” is any kind of true solution anyways…

        I think for me, the true benefit of “taking the RedPill” has simply been knowing that other men are feeling the same way.

      2. Anon September 1, 2014 at 1:01 pm

        The problem with Italian men is that most Italian men are increasingly being pussified by their own women. Plus more and more Italian men are living up with their parents in their 40s to save expenses in Italy. This affects the independent mindset of the man. He never aspires to be masculine to seek independence. Plus Italian women are increasingly becoming feminized to ball bust Italian men. That’s why Italian men travel abroad for sex tours and love vacations, to marry foreign women.

      3. Clark Kent September 1, 2014 at 1:11 pm

        I kind of live up to that stereotype myself to be honest.

        I’m 27, living at home, earned a masters degree with zero debt and I busted my ass in the meantime for a decent sized savings account.

        This would not have been possible had I paid rent in the city and lived on my own since I was 20 (Toronto has stupid high cost of living). From a financial perspective, it just made sense… and Italian families value that tightness amongst each other so there is no family shaming.

        I think what has changed is that in my fathers’ time, by the time he was mid-20s, he was able to live on his own quite comfortably. He had no formal education but was able to start a family with optimism. I think the economics have changed and some cultures are flourishing with their cultural momentum while others are grinding to a halt.

      4. Alex September 1, 2014 at 6:59 pm

        Isn’t that nowadays you would be able to live comfortably and have your bread and butter (and some meat too), but the expectations are much higher: own penthouse apartment in the city centre, a club table every Saturday, group of friends who worship you, and leisure time for all that and more.
        The social media and the serials show us the Joneses with whom it’s much more difficult to keep up. Starting from Dallas dynasty to Friends or even American Pie. It’s not the world of your grandfather, even if our biological needs are exactly the same.

      5. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 12:13 pm

        Agree.. If you act like a beta, they will treat you like one.. meaning they are off fucking other guys to satisfy their physical cravings, while you are paying for all of her shit (shopping, food, etc.) which satisfies her material cravings.. you know who is losing out on this one? You. Igor and Boris are getting their fuck on, while Natasha is going on a spending spree and eating sushi on your dime, while Johnny Dumbass <> is at his flat, wanking it by himself. If she isn’t fucking you by the 3rd or 4th time you have met in person, drop that hoe.. drop her like she has ebola. These Slavic girls want you to spank their ass, pull their hair.. fuck them like a dirty slut.. I have seen this time and time again.

    2. spentcasings September 1, 2014 at 3:50 pm

      But they were not interracial; they were intercultural: Italian v. Russian.

      1. Hamsteri September 1, 2014 at 4:36 pm

        Depents where from russia she is. To far east theu are moro sino-mongoloids. This a bit complicated subject though.

      2. Alex September 2, 2014 at 4:08 pm

        Italians are black mix, not really whites: wogs to be precise

      3. pauldrake September 3, 2014 at 12:26 pm

        Bullshit. Today’s Italians are certainly a mixed lot, but they’re a mixture of a wide array of Caucasoid groups, mostly European, but some Arab, Phoenician, and other Near Eastern bloodlines as well (mostly Sicily and southern areas like Calabria.) Northern Italians have a largely Celtic and Lombard lineage, central Italians are heavily Roman/Italic with perhaps some Etruscan, and southern Italians are heavily Roman/Italic and Greek with some Arab, Phoenician, Norman, and Lombard admixture. Italians have a higher percentage of Caucasian dna than most other European groups. Russians have among the lowest, with many Russians having a significant amount of Asian dna.

      4. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 12:08 pm

        Black mix? Where the fuck do you get your information from?

  17. Anon September 1, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    Having been involved in a 3 year relationship with a Russian woman in my 20’s, this is what I learnt:
    – If you don’t push for sex, you’d never get it
    – If you don’t push for sex all the time, you’d never get it
    – If you don’t make her commit depravity (anal and other kink) in bed, she’s not gonna submit to you. Ray wolfson’s article on RoK about using anal to dominate women is bang on – especially with chicks in that part of the world. The women in that part of the world are used to ‘mountain men’, so you need to be ‘mountainous’ or ‘caveman’ like in bed with them, You’d never get a ‘mercy’ fuck from them, though in that matter western women are better, they’d atleast give a mercy fuck sometimes.

    Plus, all women are like that. Whether Ameriskanks, latinas, Slavic hotties, asians, etc. Women never feel ‘obliged’ to ‘reciprocate’ kindness or investment on your part, with sex. American women get a rap the most for being the most hypergamous, but in reality all women are hypergamous. Russian women are extremely adept at withholding sex by extracting maximum out of men. They’re actually the ones who’ve influenced fellow FSU women to become extremely business like and transactional when it comes to sex.

    Don’t pedestalize any women. Virgins, whores or sluts. There is a whore, slut, bitch and a madonna in every woman.And it doesn’t take time for even a ‘virgin’ to switch between these roles depending on her mood and impulse. And never do or help a woman till you’ve fucked her first. The same applies to women abroad as well.

    I assume the second italian guy took her in all her holes. That’s the key with women in every part of the world, more so in that part. He ‘conquered’ her. Just proves the ‘r-selected’ playboy will always win over the ‘k-selected’ provider anytime. Imagine what the future husband of that girl would be getting. He’d be providing money, investment, marriage, home and what not to get from her what the r-selected second italian guy for free. Her husband may not even experience the kind of kinky sex she might’ve given that guy. Can a man trust a woman today? No. Women are the same everywhere. Women don’t have guilt or a conscience when dealing with men. So, don’t ever think Russian or foreign women are ‘angels’. They’re beautiful yes – but angels, no. For western men, they’d appear as angels because of the scum-like trash of American women back home. But in the end, all women burn you the same.

    1. Jaaf September 1, 2014 at 2:08 pm

      Anon, this is one of the best comments I have ever read. I agree with you 100%

    2. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 12:07 pm

      You need to register man, and post more.. this shit is gold.. I think a Native American person somewhere has a tear rolling down their cheek.

  18. Rafael September 1, 2014 at 2:56 pm

    I have adopted the number 3 as the maximum amount of dates I go with a girl until sex occurs. If it does not happen until the end of date # 3, it’s over, goodbye, for ever and ever. I simply delete her without previous note. It’s enough time for her to know you and to know if you both have enough attraction at each other. If she is not a virgin and doesn’t have sex with you until date # 3, you probably didn’t build value enough. Or she just took you as an innocent idiot who believes she is a “different” woman and a angel who’s worthy relationship, but 99% of chance she had random one night stands before. Don’t be a fool. Another thing: I don’t understand why all this thing with eastern european women. For me they are the worst type: gold diggers, liars, two-faced etc. Hate them.

    1. Pedro September 2, 2014 at 1:38 am

      My guess is that they are hotter than the average

    2. pauldrake September 3, 2014 at 12:37 pm

      Rafael totally agree about Slavic women. I’m amazed at the adoration they get on this cite. For all their deceit, traps and vices in 9 out of 10 cases I’ll take the American woman over a Slavic woman. In fact I’d prefer a non Slavic American woman over an American woman of Slavic descent. I grew up in a large American city where Slavs dominated among the various white ethnic groups.

      1. Deke September 3, 2014 at 8:08 pm

        Got to agree, personal opinion, biggest whores (literally and otherwise) of the worst kind, without peer.

      2. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 12:04 pm

        Pauldrake.. The adoration they get? Yes.. because they are fucking hot.. Their faces and bodies are sexy as fuck, and their pussies are tight. That is the extent of the adoration they get from me.. If dumbasses on here can’t discern the difference between just blowing your load in these hoes, and taking them home to mom.. well.. they don’t need to be on here.. DO NOT under any circumstances, sign away your soul to a Slavic woman.. Especially Ukrainian/Russian..

      3. pauldrake September 6, 2014 at 3:20 pm

        OK ChimpGod I’ll remember that next time someone on ROK says what great marriage material they are compared to women of the Anglosphere. I have no beef with your opinion on the matter.

  19. 'Reality' Doug September 1, 2014 at 3:03 pm

    “The lesson from this is to never underestimate any woman you meet, no matter how low her notch count is.”

    Patriarchy, to wit, supreme authority, makes the woman. The virgin shafter is simply a product of the invisible patriarchy. They are that vapid. When are men going to realize this is a political and cultural issue and team the fuck up to be in charge. Treating women like a commodity in a pool good only for cheap sex at an even cheaper price is the first step in that direction, but its all about power. Women are amoral. Women are barometers of how we are doing, and we are doing shit.

    1. Keith Swanson September 1, 2014 at 5:04 pm

      I never assume a woman is a virgin or has a low notch count. Verify, verify, verify. Only the sluts are honest about their N…

      1. Deke September 3, 2014 at 8:14 pm

        Only the sluts are not sluts – start from N.

        “Slut” admits it, and if you’ve hit the jackpot, admits she likes sex with many different guys, just for the sex, and not play games – if she wants to have sex with you, you’ll know and if you want her, you’ve got her.

        Those “good” chicks, using the chumps, only letting dirtbags and morons do them (or getting “gamed” into it), rationalising or lying about what they do, those skanks suck.

  20. Zelcorpion September 1, 2014 at 4:04 pm

    She already counts as a late-stage virgin – and as you aptly stated a cruel one. Those are better avoided too. I as most men – would respect her more for having had sex with her boyfriend, who invested so heavily in the relationship.

  21. 41490_0 September 1, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    I do feel for the Italian guy because I was once in that positions myself two years ago, I fell in love online with someone, she was abused verbally and physically by her ex boyfriend but she used her fear as an excuse to never talk to me, never see me or say hello even though she said she loved me etc. I unfortunality invested a lot of time and more and ended up with nothing I wasn’t aware of game or anything back then and it was my first.

    As someone said in the comments a womens actions speaks louder than her words.

    She probably told her 4 year boyfriend “Oh your too good for me” bullshit!!!!

    It takes messed up stuff like that to send a man to depths of low he has never been before, out of the pain comes change.

    I hope and pray that Italian guy comes across anything Game related and starts reinvesting those 4 years back to the point where the next time his ex seems him she will be regretting and wanting to be one of the many women he has on his shoulder.

    Time is the one currency you cant get back, if she isn’t investing in you she is a waste of time.

    Well done Roosh for “Nexting!!!!!!!” that girl

    1. GetItGoing September 2, 2014 at 8:31 am

      Good post.

  22. Tomas September 1, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    Such a BS, don’t tell me you actually believe this one Roosh. After all those years I’d except you to distinguish real stories from lies.

    1. Trdgrde September 2, 2014 at 7:56 pm

      How exactly this is BS?

  23. FormerCanadian September 1, 2014 at 5:17 pm

    Again, a MALE was a problem in yet another case!!!! Who in his right mind would be waiting 4 years, 4 frigging years just to get access to that “elusive pussy”??? Why and when did males decide to fall that LOW?? Is situation THAT desperate???
    Do not blame women for the current state of things in dating, blame MEN who fell too low and abandoned all the selection criteria and standards and decided to go for the lowest of the low!!

    1. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 12:01 pm

      Putting that pussy on a pedestal.. Men will go to the ends of the earth for that elusive pussy.. It’s one of those “original sin, punishments from god” thins I like to think possibly exist.. if I was religious.

  24. Daniel September 1, 2014 at 6:06 pm

    You must understand how some italian men, usually ones who come from a backward social reality with strong religious roots (e.g. small towns in the south), actually give big value to a woman for being vergin and withdrawing from pre-marital sex. The excuse “I wanna have sex only with a man I love” has surely a strong approvation from a catholic mind.
    On the other hand we have the girl. If her story is true, so if she really remained virgin during the whole 4 years relationship time, she might have developed a strong resentment toward this guy, being he so stupid to actually believe her words and behaving according to them and not pushing hard at the first occasion to give her the good dick she was dreaming of (with the prospect of a marriage, never happened though, as a possible reason to keep up the rapport)
    Hence we have the punishment, very feminine in its execution and with a drop of cruelty typical of russian women: she lost the virginity with a random italian guy…

    1. Deke September 3, 2014 at 8:17 pm

      Brilliant analysis.

  25. Mr Renascentia September 1, 2014 at 6:23 pm

    Men falling to their knees in front of the feminine sphinx altar, has been happening for centuries and yes this will happen in “red pill” countries as well.

    If you are focusing on all the millions of stories, about women screwing over their men with no shame in the mater; then you are going to lose all your hair. You can only focus on yourself and those who are close you in order to be weary of how best to avoid such things.

    Understanding the way women are and continuing on with your life goals without being bothered by it, is one of the biggest steps a man who wishes to self improve has to take.

    As for Russian women and EE ladies in general. They are not some sacred holy grail, take it from someone who has lived in that part of the world, and for the last few years has solely been with women from this region. They are a lot better than Western women, in the way that they are actually women. They are feminine, look after themselves, more “red pill” but you are not going to get any comfort from them. They are hypergamous and will test you like crazy.

    1. FormerCanadian September 1, 2014 at 6:43 pm

      May I kindly ask you were in Eastern Europe you have been and dated?:-)

    2. Trdgrde September 2, 2014 at 7:59 pm

      So, you basically saying: do not marry EE women?? Man…

      1. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 11:59 am

        Do not marry women in general! Regardless of where they are from! Do you even need to ask?

    3. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 11:58 am

      I couldn’t have said it better myself.. The problem is, men will destroy themselves over the thought of that one EE girl.. giving every last cent, for the POSSIBILITY of her somehow caring/loving/giving a fuck about him. It’s not going to happen guys.. wake up and smell the Kvas.. They are hypergamous to the fucking T. They will keep slithering their way up the social chain.. don’t be that dumbass that they use as a stepping stool.

  26. greyghost1 September 1, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    That was women in a nut shell (all) .

  27. John September 1, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    There’s a story in the book ‘Belle’s guide to men’ (a book by the London escort belle de jour, in it she talks very candidly about men and women and admits women are more evil than men).
    I read the book a few years back, but te just is She says a guy she knew was a virgin and met a girl who was a virgin too. The girl said she wanted to move in together, get engaged and wait until marriage to have sex. The obediently agreed and unsurprisingly her respect dropped for him in direct proportion to his obedience to her.

    It turned out that she spent about 18 months cheating on him being sexually active while he was saving his virginity for her, she didn’t even throw him a mercy fuck.

    I think this story reflects just how little respect and mercy women have for men who can’t stand up to them and who are afraid to make the first move and take the initiative/responsibility in a relationship.

    Girls also lie as much as men do, but they lie to themselves more by rationalising, so it’s often difficult to know what to believe. She could have just avoided vaginal sex to justify retaining the title of Virgin, or could have just been using it to try and impress men, the same way a man would lie about his material worth.

    Whatever it is the story doesn’t add up and I would have called time out and found a new chick/s to start from scratch with again too. Is rather have an honest slut than a dishonest one.

    1. pauldrake September 3, 2014 at 12:44 pm

      Some women can lie and convince themselves that they aren’t. Women are great at revisionist history too. Don’t get sucked into an argument with a woman about what happened, what you or her did or didn’t do or say. It’s a recipe for a screaming match. A man, or at least a strong man is interested in the truth. A woman makes her own truth.

  28. tonipepperoni September 1, 2014 at 8:36 pm

    You’re basically confirming the same conclusions that I’ve made long ago…

    Slavic girls realise that everything outside their own country is euphoria bliss filled with validation and pleasure… for Russian girls its a 500 dollar packaged tour deal which gives them the phantasmic experience of having their ego raised ten fold upon arriving in Rome.

    The romantic novelty is no longer there in Moscow. Neither is it there in any Polish city. It’s why I’ve encountered so many polish girls who prefer to live in their cities, lonely, like ghosts in a outer shell, waiting for their imminent exit from their country, to trip it to spain and italy, rather than meet an Italian and Spanish guy in their own country.

    Other times they date Polish guys simply out of convenience depending on where they are age wise and emotionally.

    They would rather hit up their Italian heart throbs in Rome via couchsurfing and badoo instead of meet ex-pat males in their own location.

    Ex-pat friends in Moscow mirror my own conclusions.

    Going on a date with a ‘slavic’ girl, you’ll realise that her mind isn’t exactly ‘present’ – rather she’s simply making conversation with you, as if you’re in the airport transit area, awaiting an alternate destination.

    Most have had traumatic pasts with a foreign guy and it haunts their daily conscious experience, that they’re awaiting to relive the moment in another packaged tour. It’s for that reason I have begun dating younger, less traveled girls.

    I have even witnessed Polish girls going hitch-hiking and using tents just to be in ‘spain’.

    You may find girls in Ukraine to be more chirpy and excited than the droids in Moscow, simply because Ukranians have a more difficult time to travel (economic, visa reasons etc)

    1. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 11:55 am

      Going on a date with a ‘slavic’ girl, you’ll realise that her mind isn’t exactly ‘present’ – rather she’s simply making conversation with you, as if you’re in the airport transit area, awaiting an alternate destination.

      I like that shit man.. you worded it perfectly, A+.. That is why you pump her and dump her in the bathroom in the terminal, and get on your plane all sweaty.. order yourself a rum and coke, and head to your cock’s next destination.

  29. Patrick Bateman September 1, 2014 at 8:39 pm

    While I sympathize with the Italian guy I wouldn’t have stuck around for four years without being sexually gratified.

    1. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 11:51 am

      If he did stick around that long, he needs to realize he is a fucking idiot, and hang himself.. or an alpha needs to take him under his wing, and show him what a complete fucking retard he has been.

  30. Inside UoM September 1, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    Roosh, I’m sure you have been the random fling many times in your life.

  31. Broseph September 1, 2014 at 9:58 pm

    “Her cherished virginity”

    You’re clearly misinterpreting modern women if you think they cherish their virginity. You’re a smart man, but you must look past your own biases in order to better evaluate and understand women.

    Virginity is only valued by men, and usually only to a minor degree. I’ve never encountered a modern woman who was all that concerned with losing her virginity. Perhaps that’s because most lose their virginity around 15 or so.

  32. Awesome Possum September 2, 2014 at 1:40 am

    Wow Roosh. Short, but *very* powerful message. You just planted a seed in a lot of mens minds that will grow over time. Excellent post.

  33. Jekkeri September 2, 2014 at 8:12 am

    Woman is not a bank.

  34. the truth September 2, 2014 at 10:50 am

    you seriously believe that? I don’t

    1. Trdgrde September 2, 2014 at 8:04 pm

      Why not? Don’t you believe this happens?

  35. Roger Daily September 2, 2014 at 11:24 am

    Did she have big tits?

  36. kommstdumitmir September 2, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    My instinctive reaction was to think that guy is a fucking loser. Seriously if that guy was retarded enough to date a girl for four years without getting any sex he is an idiot. Obviously the girl sensed that he was a complete idiot and that’s why she didn’t fuck him. Well done to her too; we don’t need retards spreading their seed.

  37. Flavinous September 2, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    Elementary mistake, Watson. The girl was simply lying to you and the more you inquired about the imaginary Italian boyfriends, the more you dug yourself in the friends zone.

    Never ask a girl about her ex-boys.

    1. TyKo Steamboat September 6, 2014 at 11:04 pm

      you beat me to it…

  38. Ira September 2, 2014 at 8:31 pm

    In addition to honor and loyalty, humility is another traditional male virtue. This is clearly something completely foreign to you since you just went on a narcissistic, entitled rant about how women need to “pay” you with sexual favors.

    Clearly you can’t find any women who actually want to have sex with you so you have to make them feel obligated.


  39. J September 3, 2014 at 1:36 am

    God, what a selfish bitch. I mean really. How can she just so casually break a guy’s heart? She strung him along and then just pulled the rug out from under him, and doesn’t even think anything of it. And I hate her excuse that she realized she didn’t love him, and that’s why she never made love to him. She said she wanted her first time to be with someone she loved. I’m guessing because she believed that would make it more special. Well the guy she did have sex with I’m sure didn’t love her since she didn’t know him that long. So what’s more meaningful, having sex with someone that you love but doesn’t love you back, or having sex with someone that loves you but you don’t love them? I would say the latter is more meaningful. You don’t have to totally love someone just to have meaningful intercourse. Stupid bitch. She knows what she did was wrong and she doesn’t want to admit it, so she has to invent some BS excuse to alleviate her conscience. It’s shallow, selfish, immature, unfair, and despicable. What else can I say lol? This is the world we live in.

  40. Kizman September 3, 2014 at 1:59 am

    We dont love them hoez *Snoop dogg voice*

  41. Robert September 3, 2014 at 5:56 am

    oh cmon! first of all, she may not have had sex with him due to the fact that he wasnt even around. he lived in Italy for christ`s sake! and Im pretty sure he was not faithfully waiting for her instead he probably had some fun with italian chics while keeping his russian “girlfriend” in the back of hsi mind. than he moved to russia and Im pretty sure he had enough chicks to choose from. it didnt work out with her – he found a substitute pretty quickly.

    the girl probably never had a chance to even know the guy. its very hard for russians to get a visa to eu. they probably met a couple of times in those 4 years and she couldnt work it out with the sex thing since she was a virgin. than they broke up and she hooked up with some italian guy who made her feel relaxed. big deal. a woman ows a man loyalty dignity and all that shit when they are in a relationship. that wasnt even a real relationship just some internet romance. if you re a dude and a girl doesnt treat you right – just leave her.

  42. manmade September 3, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    man, your writings are gold. I am Italian and a few years ago, I could have easily been the guy you described, the pitiful idiot who would believe that giving himself to a woman in that way, i.e. moving where she lives, making it easy for her at the cost of making it hard for me, etc, would be such great things to do for a woman. The story you told us just confirm, for the millionth time, how crazy women really are, no matter how cute and affectionate they seem, and no matter if they are American or not (although the American ones, as we all know, are probably the worst ones ). Any nice guy should dig deep into that, and the nicer the guy is, the more should learn about extreme examples. I have read how some women actually married serial killers while the latters were spending time in jail for the crimes they committed. The girls of the ‘Manson family’, even though they are all rotting in jail and never lived a life, always say that they would do ANYTHING for Manson. These are all ‘extreme’ examples, but I believe there’s a bit of that in every woman. They all do the same crazy shit on a much smaller scale. They don’t care about you, even though to an inexperienced mind, they might look like they care. The more you look into what women can do, the more you come close to reality. They will marry someone, have kids, and then throw the man out like a pair of old shoes, and the woman will walk away with his money, his house, his car and even his balls. Never believe that you can let yourself go and have feelings for her. Always be self-centered, always think with your head (and your penis), never with your heart. And for chrissakes, never let a woman CHANGE you, i.e. never let her change your plans, your hobbies, when you do them, etc, because if you do, you are under her control. Even if it costs nothing to you, don’t let her change shit about your life. And buy the books written by Roosh, of all the ‘gurus’ I have read from, he’s the only one I listen to and his content is the one I prefer: realistic, no bullshit, experiential and observation based, and his material is a bargain. Thank you Roosh for this article, it reminded me of how much I really changed in 3 or 4 years. For the best, of course 🙂

  43. Inconvenientruth September 3, 2014 at 5:15 pm

    This girl was not virgin and didn’t loose her virginity to the italians, she started fucking when she was 16 or 17 with her russian drunk friends are u so inexperienced that u didn’t get that roosh? She was just trying to give u the good girl routine, only problem is that she did a mistake when she said she had sex with the random italian guy (she was trying not to seem unnactractive and inexperienced by saying this) and then she had to stay with that story till the end omg sometimes u write weird beta stories roosh…

  44. inconvenientruth September 3, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    This girl was not virgin and didn’t loose her virginity to the italians, she started fucking when she was 16 or 17 with her russian drunk friends are u so inexperienced that u didn’t get that roosh? She was just trying to give u the good girl routine, only problem is that she did a mistake when she said she had sex with the random italian guy (she was trying not to seem unnactractive and inexperienced by saying this) and then she had to stay with that story till the end omg sometimes u write some weird beta stories man…

  45. Graft September 4, 2014 at 2:39 am

    “Men believe in reciprocation, honor, and loyalty, while women only
    follow their feelings to rationalize a complete lack of obligation or
    burden to kindly repay someone’s prior investment and commitment to


  46. CR7 September 4, 2014 at 5:10 pm

    What I learned from this story: never start an Internet relationship with a girl from another country. The girl might seem nice but offline she’s just fucking someone else, while you provide her with attention and validation (and maybe even money)

    1. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 11:49 am

      Correct..That is why you use her for what she has to offer.. Get her naked on webcam playing with herself.. and hopefully you are learning her language, and she is teaching you.. Therefore, your time is not a waste..

  47. Inconvenientruth September 4, 2014 at 6:13 pm

    This girl was not virgin and didn’t loose her virginity to the italians, she started fucking when she was 16 or 17 with her russian drunk friends are u so inexperienced that u didn’t get that roosh? She was just trying to give u the good girl routine, only problem is that she did a mistake when she said she had sex with the random italian guy (she was trying not to seem unnactractive and inexperienced by saying this) and then she had to stay with that story till the end omg sometimes u write some weird beta stories man…

  48. inconvenientruth September 4, 2014 at 7:46 pm

    This girl was not virgin and didn’t loose her virginity to the italians, she started fucking when she was 16 or 17 with her russian drunk friends are u so inexperienced that u didn’t get that roosh? She was just trying to give u the good girl routine, only problem is that she did a mistake when she said she had sex with the random italian guy (she was trying not to seem unnactractive and inexperienced by saying this) and then she had to stay with that story till the end omg sometimes u write some weird beta stories man…

  49. roosh_is_beta September 4, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    This girl was not virgin and didn’t loose her virginity to the italians, she started fucking when she was 16 or 17 with her russian drunk friends are u so inexperienced that u didn’t get that roosh? She was just trying to give u the good girl routine, only problem is that she did a mistake when she said she had sex with the random italian guy (she was trying not to seem unnactractive and inexperienced by saying this) and then she had to stay with that story till the end omg sometimes u write some weird beta stories man…

    1. ChimpGod September 5, 2014 at 11:48 am

      I agree with you as far as the fact that she was definitely not a virgin before.. I bet money she got fucked by Igor at his dacha in the forest.. however, don’t underestimate Roosh and his ability.. You can’t talk shit when you have nothing to show, and have other people to critique it.

    2. manmade September 9, 2014 at 1:50 pm

      ‘roosh_is_beta’ is a donkey who can’t even spell (him, not Roosh)

  50. Harry Mann September 5, 2014 at 5:15 am

    If you had probed a little deeper, you might have found out she was giving up her ass to the first Italian guy, and maybe even swallowing his jizz after blowing him, as that doesn’t constitute sex in a woman’s mind. She may then tell you that she remained a virgin. Hell, she may have even been cheating on the first Italian by doing all of the above with other men, while holding out her virginity as an enticement. If you were up against a stone wall, it may have been due to the idea that you hadn’t been romantic and adventurous enough.

  51. TyKo Steamboat September 6, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    Interesting. “Men believe in reciprocation, honor & loyalty, while women only follow their feelings to rationalize a complete lack of obligation or burden to kindly repay someone’s prior investment & commitment to them.”
    Yea…I’ve competed with some greasy Italians in m time. Their tactics are beta & to view them from a distance is sad.

  52. roman43 September 7, 2014 at 4:57 pm

    She dated the Italian for 4 years? lol. If she refuses sex by the very latest the 4th date, dump her. And virginity is not something to be “cherished”, it’s something you need to get rid of latest by 18, boys and girls alike.

  53. Nick T September 15, 2014 at 9:18 pm

    I once dated a girl who was half Russian and half French when I studied abroad in Europe. I met her in a clothing store she worked in and when I approached the counter and found myself struggling to communicate with her in Russian because I assumed she couldn’t speak English and I didn’t speak Russian well. She then blushed and giggled and told me that she spoke English and very fluently. She was beautiful too and offered to help me on my Russian and even taught me a little French and Swedish, since she had Sweden in her family as well. She invited me to her parents house for dinner and her family welcomed me with open arms. Her father was cool too and funny but I sometimes wondered if he was stereotyping me because he would sometimes jokingly try to talk street to me like “Watz goin’ on, brotha?” ” Fo Shizzle!” “Yeah, that’s tight!”. As far as me and his daughter goes, I think how we became more than friends, is when she invited me to her place one time and we sat talked after coming from a party. While we were talking she asked me if I could massage her feet for her and I said “sure”. So I took off her heels and begin to rub her feet and we continued to talk. She then asked me if I had a girlfriend back home and I said no. We then watched some TV on the couch and then when I started to notice it was getting late and started to head out the door, she told to me to wait and walked up to me and got in front of the door and locked it. And I tried to prevent what I knew what was about to happen because I didn’t want to hurt our friendship but she walked up on me and placed her arms around my neck and placed her finger on my lip and said ” Shhh…. Don’t try to fight it, just let nature take it’s course.” and you can pretty much guess what happened next. After that our friendship became a relationship. That girl was good to me, she treated me better than any girl I ever dated, there something special about her, something unique about her, something you don’t see everyday. I should’ve married that girl but I was too afraid of commitment. The last time I saw her, she asked me “Do you love me?” I said “Yes.” then she said “Then prove it. Move to London with me. Marry me. Have children with me. Grow old with me.” but I was too afraid to do so. She got on the plane to London and flew out of my life and I got back on that plane to New York City to finish school at NYU. Now I live in a apartment in Downtown, Los Angeles with a cousin and two of his friends and spend my nights wondering what could have been. How could I have let a girl like that slip through my fingers.

  54. JJ Roberts September 23, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    Shafted? Hardly.

    He played the only card he knew how to play, the provider male card instead of the fuckable guy card.

    Women don’t find provider males “sexy”.

  55. esolesek March 2, 2015 at 6:18 am

    Predicting women is pointless. It really is a volume game. THe better your game, the better your volume but nothing is ever a sure thing for free, and honestly, the best attitude towards that reality only means you’ll do better. Women love false postitivity and false domination. it doesnt matter if those two qualities are real or fake, they’ll still take the phony over the real, unless they’ve got brains and don’t like games, and then you’re golden if you have half a brain. I just don’t think getting bitter helps in the least, even if it is true. Life is too short. Do something else, and be ready for the hotties to show up, because they never do when you’re looking, but they come like a river when you’re busy at something else.

  56. MRKLjinjang . August 23, 2016 at 4:40 am

    The technique is too slow, when / if I go on a pick up. I expect some level of intimacy on the first date otherwise I drop them like a turd. hehehe …

  57. Susan Kopecky April 24, 2017 at 2:51 am

    Czech women are more beautiful…and smarter…
    They look for character…integrity
    Over being USED…
    Czech women are a challenge…especially if they are beautiful..most are…
    Some men cannot handle..the
    Challenge and walk away…