The Wisdom Books Of The Old Testament

ISBN: 1414309473

The most interesting books of the Bible for those who aren’t believers in God are the wisdom books of Job and Ecclesiastes. Written from a philosophical point of view, they attempt to help people live with suffering and pain while putting existence into context.

Book of Job

bookofjob

Job is a devout believer in God who follows all of His rules. He has been blessed with incredible wealth and numerous children. Satan then challenges God by arguing that Job is only faithful because of what he has gained, and that he would immediately curse God if everything was taken away from him. God allows Satan to destroy him, taking his wealth and killing all of his children.

Once the misfortune befalls Job, his wife implores him to curse God, but Job refuses. Instead, he openly laments at why God is allowing him to suffer. He even asks God to allow him to die.

I would rather be strangled—
rather die than suffer like this.
I hate my life and don’t want to go on living
Oh, leave me alone for my few remaining days. (Job 7:15-16)

Why make me your target?
Am I a burden to you?
Why not just forgive my sin
and take away my guilt?
For soon I will lie down in the dust and die.
When you look for me, I will be gone. (Job 7:20-21)

What do you gain by oppressing me?
Why do you reject me, the work of your own hands,
while smiling on the schemes of the wicked? (Job 10:3)

He then has a series of poetic dialogues with priestly men in an attempt to explain God’s justice. Job asks some pointed questions, implying that those who are eager to sin seem to experience more prosperity than those who closely follow God’s words.

The godless seem like a lush plant growing in the sunshine,
its branches spreading across the garden.
Its roots grow down through a pile of stones;
it takes hold on a bed of rocks.
But when it is uprooted,
it’s as though it never existed! (Job 8:16-18)

When a plague sweeps through,
he laughs at the death of the innocent.
The whole earth is in the hands of the wicked,
and God blinds the eyes of the judges.
If he’s not the one who does it, who is? (Job 9:23-24)

Just like how there are so many laws in the legal code that you are always on the hook for something illegal, there are also so many possible sins that it may be impossible to live a clean life.

Whatever happens, I will be found guilty.
So what’s the use of trying?
Even if I were to wash myself with soap
and clean my hands with lye,
you would plunge me into a muddy ditch,
and my own filthy clothing would hate me. (Job 9:29-31)

The men that Job spills his guts to state that he’s sinning in some way and knows nothing about how God works, and that he must grin and bear it instead of questioning God’s actions.

Pay attention to this, Job.
Stop and consider the wonderful miracles of God!
Do you know how God controls the storm
and causes the lightning to flash from his clouds?
Do you understand how he moves the clouds
with wonderful perfection and skill?
When you are sweltering in your clothes
and the south wind dies down and everything is still,
he makes the skies reflect the heat like a bronze mirror.
Can you do that? (Job 37:14-18)

God appears and asks Job how dare he question His actions, even though those actions amounted to an agreement with Satan.

Who is this that questions my wisdom
with such ignorant words?
Brace yourself like a man,
because I have some questions for you,
and you must answer them.
Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell me, if you know so much.
Who determined its dimensions
and stretched out the surveying line?
What supports its foundations,
and who laid its cornerstone
as the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy? (Job 38:2-7)

God goes on to describe his powers and then serves a “How dare you?” argument to Job, who then accepts his utter impotence.

Then the LORD said to Job,
“Do you still want to argue with the Almighty?
You are God’s critic, but do you have the answers?”
Then Job replied to the LORD,
“I am nothing—how could I ever find the answers?
I will cover my mouth with my hand.
I have said too much already.
I have nothing more to say.” (Job 40:2-5)

You asked, ‘Who is this that questions my wisdom with such ignorance?’
It is I—and I was talking about things I knew nothing about,
things far too wonderful for me.
You said, ‘Listen and I will speak!
I have some questions for you,
and you must answer them.’
I had only heard about you before,
but now I have seen you with my own eyes.
I take back everything I said,
and I sit in dust and ashes to show my repentance.” (Job 42:3-6)

Other parts of the Bible channel Job by asking why bad on Earth is allowed to continue:

Wake up, O Lord! Why do you sleep?
Get up! Do not reject us forever.
Why do you look the other way?
Why do you ignore our suffering and oppression?
We collapse in the dust,
lying face down in the dirt.
Rise up! Help us!
Ransom us because of your unfailing love. (Psalm 44:23-26)

And the usual response is to not question God:

What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator.
Does a clay pot argue with its maker?
Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying,
‘Stop, you’re doing it wrong!’
Does the pot exclaim,
‘How clumsy can you be?’
How terrible it would be if a newborn baby said to its father,
‘Why was I born?’
or if it said to its mother,
‘Why did you make me this way?’ (Isaiah 5:9-10)

After Job stopped questioning God, he was rewarded with even greater prosperity than before:

So the LORD blessed Job in the second half of his life even more than in the beginning. For now he had 14,000 sheep, 6,000 camels, 1,000 teams of oxen, and 1,000 female donkeys. He also gave Job seven more sons and three more daughters. He named his first daughter Jemimah, the second Keziah, and the third Keren-happuch. In all the land no women were as lovely as the daughters of Job. And their father put them into his will along with their brothers. Job lived 140  years after that, living to see four generations of his children and grandchildren. Then he died, an old man who had lived a long, full life. (Job 42:12-17)

You have to be patient with God:

Those who plant in tears will harvest with shouts of joy. They weep as they go to plant their seed, but they sing as they return with the harvest. (Psalm 126:5-6)

The lesson of this story seems to be one of stoicism: accept your fate, don’t question it, and understand that what you have now can be taken from you at a moment’s notice if God wants to, no matter how cleanly you have lived in his honor. Ironically, this book did more to make me question God’s wisdom than any other.

Book Of Ecclesiastes

Ecclesiastes-quote

The next wisdom book is Ecclesiastes, purportedly written by King’s David son, Solomon, who amassed one-thousand wives during his reign as King of Israel. His wife collection led to him serving other gods, and he was punished for it when God broke up the Kingdom of Israel. Ecclesiastes is the book that Solomon wrote at the end of his life, sharing all that he learned.

“Everything is meaningless,” says the Teacher, “completely meaningless!” What do people get for all their hard work under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth never changes. The sun rises and the sun sets, then hurries around to rise again. The wind blows south, and then turns north. Around and around it goes, blowing in circles. Rivers run into the sea, but the sea is never full. Then the water returns again to the rivers and flows out again to the sea. Everything is wearisome beyond description. No matter how much we see, we are never satisfied. No matter how much we hear, we are not content. History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new. (Ecclesiastes 1:2-11)

What is the point of accumulating wisdom in life? Why work hard?

For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

I thought, “Wisdom is better than foolishness, just as light is better than darkness. For the wise can see where they are going, but fools walk in the dark.” Yet I saw that the wise and the foolish share the same fate. Both will die. So I said to myself, “Since I will end up the same as the fool, what’s the value of all my wisdom? This is all so meaningless!” For the wise and the foolish both die. (Ecclesiastes 2:13-16)

So what do people get in this life for all their hard work and anxiety? Their days of labor are filled with pain and grief; even at night their minds cannot rest. It is all meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 2:22-23)

All is vanity:

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)

Promiscuous and bad women are sent forth as a punishment from God:

I discovered that a seductive woman is a trap more bitter than death. Her passion is a snare, and her soft hands are chains. Those who are pleasing to God will escape her, but sinners will be caught in her snare. (Ecclesiastes 7:26)

Solomon tries to convince himself that evil will not prosper, but he can’t help coming back to the fact that it does:

When a crime is not punished quickly, people feel it is safe to do wrong. But even though a person sins a hundred times and still lives a long time, I know that those who fear God will be better off. The wicked will not prosper, for they do not fear God. Their days will never grow long like the evening shadows. And this is not all that is meaningless in our world. In this life, good people are often treated as though they were wicked, and wicked people are often treated as though they were good. This is so meaningless! (Ecclesiastes 8:11-16)

At this moment, it seems that Solomon goes off the rails by seemingly promoting a life of debauchery:

So I recommend having fun, because there is nothing better for people in this world than to eat, drink, and enjoy life. That way they will experience some happiness along with all the hard work God gives them under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 8:15)

One interpretation of this is that if you live in sin like Solomon, you will eventually come to the conclusion that life is meaningless, all is for naught, and the only purpose is to have fun. The book may have been included in the Bible to serve as an example of what will happen to you if behave as Solomon and come to the end of your life thinking that it wasn’t worth it. I hope this was the intended result because otherwise it would cause you to lose faith in God’s own wisdom in justice, just like with Job.

The wisdom books of the Bible raise questions of God’s justice and plans for his human subjects. Why do people suffer or prosper? Why does life feel like it’s not being guided by God? These questions vexed the Jews enough that they honored other God’s to get more immediate results. And then Jesus Christ came along to say that it will all be worth it—not necessarily now, but in the eternal afterlife, as long as you accept him as your savior.

Read Next: The Old Testament’s Position On Female Behavior

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Bodichi
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If Churchians bothered to open up debates about these kinds of questions maybe men would go to church.

Instead they scream and harp how men should wife up single mother sluts and self cuckold.

Bravo for taking the discussion here.

Wes
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True that. try to bring up how David prayed in Anger at God in some of the Psalms. And you make some very uncomfortable. it’s not the way they like to think. But it was God’s favorite, who was willing to express his honest anger towards him.

rms
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Bono (huge globalist cuck, I know) has some pretty interesting thoughts and discussions on David that I’ve enjoyed listening to. A lot of them are on YouTube.

Wes
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Yes he is a globalist but I’ve seen a lot worse out of rock stars.

John Galt
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Great topic. The Old Testament is full of wisdom, but outside of catholicism, I do not think many other Christian faiths read it.

Booch Paradise
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Then you have a very shallow knowledge of the Protestant community. My Lutheran church is just wrapping up a Bible study of the Old Testament Prophets. Both my Evangelical Christian high school and college required courses in the Old Testament. Hell, even at the Vineyard church that I left because it got taken over by hipsters, we did both sermons and Bible studies in the Old Testament.

Bodichi
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@boochparadise:disqus

Perhaps you are snowflaking. You list 2 churches, a religious high school and college that talk about the old testament. Remember the plural of Anecdote is not Data, and you have only mentioned 2 anecdotes.

Booch Paradise
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Ok sunshine, show me the hard data available that contradicts that. So far all you have is your own opinion based on your own opinion.

Bodichi
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In literally 10 seconds of google search I found a pew survey that showed that self proclaimed “Christians” scored only 6 of 12 questions correctly and in general know very little about their faith. While this data does not directly correlate to churches teaching the new testament but not the old it does confirm that most don’t teach scripture period.

http://creation.com/religion-survey-reveals-ignorance-of-bible

Booch Paradise
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So you don’t think Catholics are Christians too?

Bodichi
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Never said or implied that. You are obfuscating after being refuted with data. It makes you read as disingenuous.

Booch Paradise
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You’re using a study about Christians in general to make a statement specifically about Protestants. The study itself says in the header that Catholics were surveyed as well, and the summary does not have a break down. And that’s aside from the fact that the study wouldn’t show what you say it does even if it did have that break down. You are not just being disingenuous, you are lying.

Bodichi
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“While this data does not directly correlate to churches teaching the new testament but not the old it does confirm that most don’t teach scripture period.”

This was my claim. It made no mention of breakdown between Catholic and Protestant. Now a quote from the study:

“The average Christian respondent to the survey answered 16 out of 32 questions correctly, including 6 out of 12 questions pertaining to Christianity.”

The survey’s conclusion:

“The bad news is that religious knowledge in general, including knowledge of one’s own religion, is abysmal.”

Since you have now accused me of being a liar, please prove it.

Booch Paradise
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The point where you said you had refuted my point with hard data.

Bodichi
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If you were not so interested in being confrontational you would see the concession in this statement:

“While this data does not directly correlate to (protestant) [sic] churches teaching the new testament but not the old it does confirm that most don’t teach scripture period.”

What this means, and you appear not to want to understand, is that there is not a readily available report proving that: “Protestant churches don’t teach the old testament”. However, if all “Christians” fail horribly at scriptural knowledge, then protestants as a subset of Christians would fall into that bucket. And not knowing the old testament would fall into the bucket of not knowing scripture.

Bodichi
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Also, understand what I am not saying. I am not saying your churches and schools don’t teach the old testament. I am saying the majority do not. Then I conceded the data did not back up (only protestant churches not teaching the OT), but instead asserted that the majority of churches are not teaching scripture at all.

On a bell curve churches that teach scripture would be two SD or even three to the right. Not saying they don’t exist, saying they are rare.

Booch Paradise
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“You are obfuscating after being refuted with data.” What exactly was refuted? Your survey does not address what is taught in churches at all. Respondents didn’t confirm that they were church going, only that they identify as religious.

Bodichi
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Please provide the quote that shows that the respondents only identify as religious but are not going to church. We are both arguing from silence as to their church attendance.

Booch Paradise
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I’m sorry but debating the menusia of a study that neither asks nor answers whether or not Protestant institutions and communities teach the Old Testament, in regards to the subject of whether or not Protestant institutions and communities teach the Old Testament, is getting to be a bit tedious.

If you want to carry on like it does either of those things and thus refutes my position, then carry on. I won’t be responding further.

Bodichi
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Here is a break down by Protestant / Catholic for that same survey. BTW it looks as if Prots do marginally better.

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/

Jed Mask
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Catholics are NOT Christians: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/fools.htm
There’s no CHRIST in “Catholic” but there is “CHRIST” in “CHRIST-ian”. Amen.
~ Bro. Jed

Booch Paradise
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Catholics profess the Nicene Creed. Do you believe that they are all lying or that it is insufficient?

Jed Mask
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“Nicene Creed”?! What is that? Sounds like “traditions of men” NOT Doctrine of Christ in His Word (King James Version Holy Bible [KJV]). Amen.

“Do you believe that they are all lying or that it is insufficient?”

Yeah they are lying and it is INSUFFICIENT. ONLY the Precious Holy Blood of the LORD JESUS CHRIST saves sinners from HELL and gives SALVATION unto ETERNAL LIFE: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/Doctrines/blood.htm
~ Bro. Jed

Booch Paradise
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Well, given that you reject the Nicene Creed, I can only assume you must accept the Arian heresy, and as such are not a Christian yourself.

That or your a complete retard spouting off while being completely ignorant of the most basic history of the church.

Jed Mask
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Nope. No need to INSULT if you disagree though.
And this “Nicene Creed” of whatever it is, is NOT biblical CHRISTIAN doctrine but hellish, FALSE Catholic “traditions of men”.
Certainly NOT the Teachings of Christ. And yeah, I’m “plain ‘n simple” concerning the Word in PURITY so I don’t have no clue about some “Nicene Creed” or “Arian heresy” cuz I know it don’t have nothing to do with the Doctrine of Christ in the first place. Amen.
~ Bro. Jed.

Booch Paradise
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I insult because you condemn the majority of people who confess by mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, men and women who are my brothers and sisters in Christ. You do so on the basis of some shitty website that was made in front page and is filled with bald faced lies. Lies you believe in because you are so pig ignorant of your faith that you don’t even know what the Nicene Creed is, and in your rush to judgment, without even googling it, decided that it’s extra scripture.

I would suggest that you read the first chapter of James, and stop being so quick to speak and slow to listen, then learn to bridle you tongue.

TheMaskedUnit
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Be careful. Guard against that pride. Remember that ALL Christians are sinners. Even the Catholics.

TheMaskedUnit
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It’s like there are a bunch of sinners in those churches … That’s the point of being there. The only thing unwelcome in a church is pride. Ignorance, weakness, faults … come on in. We all seem to get most of it wrong. He uses the stupid to confound the wise.

Mark 2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Pro Deo et Pro Patria
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Do Lutherans teach you can lose your salvation?

Stenka Razin
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I went to Catholic school for twelve years and later went to non denominational Protestant churchs for years. Both teach on the old testament equally in depth. That is if they teach bible at all.
As Time passed by I had to stop going to church as it became highly fem centric and populated with mostly thirsty beta men and demanding hypergamous “Christian” Ho’s, who were no different from women outside the church. These Ho’s practiced serial monogamy just like worldly women, but only with God’s so called blessing on their divorces and remarriages…or so they claimed. Afterall, they “felt” God blessed it, so “it must be true”.
“…while I was still searching but not finding…I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all”—Solomon The Wise. Ecclesiastes 7:28 (NIV)

John Galt
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I stand corrected. I never heard a protestant talk about anything but the NT and most admit never reading the OT outside of a few known passages.
Finding Jesus and another mans wallet seems to be the underlying reason for women to go to church, but you can spot them a mile away.

DrTorch
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Pfft, Roman Catholics didn’t even start reading the Bible until a few years ago, and most still don’t.

John Galt
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Disagree, but I would say every parish is different. Plus the current Pope isn’t helping things.

Booch Paradise
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I don’t know man. When it comes to serious Christian intellectuals, we have C. S. Lewis, and Catholics have everyone else. Plus, if you look at the average education of a Catholic priest vs a Protestant pastor, I’m pretty sure the priest wins by a large margin.

DrTorch
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Bonhoeffer, Francis Schaeffer, RC Sproul, That’s just 20th C.
And RC doesn’t get to claim Augustine, as the reformation hadn’t happened yet.

Booch Paradise
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That’s my bad on missing Bonhoeffer, I’d debate on the seriousness of Schaeffer, and I’m admittedly ignorant of RC Sproul.

I’d also debate on the reformation point. What about the East/West schism? Though admittedly Augustine is before that.

DrTorch
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Eastern Orthodox scholars may be out there, I just don’t know them. Not criticizing them in any way.

Booch Paradise
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Same here. I’d just point out that certainly the RC can claim as it’s own any RC thinkers after that point. Just an aspie quibble.

David
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“And RC doesn’t get to claim Augustine, as the reformation hadn’t happened yet.”

Augustine was loyal to Pope Siricius, Pope Anastasius I, Pope Innocent I, Pope Zosimus, Pope Boniface I and Pope Celestine I. I don’t see how he can’t be claimed by the Catholic Church.

John Galt
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The priest recieves probably one of the best educations in the world and despite my disliking of jesuits political leftist inclinations, they are superb teachers. From the last time I looked, half of the students in catholic schools are NOT catholic.

TheMaskedUnit
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Protestants also have Paul. lol It’s not our fault you don’t want him.

Booch Paradise
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The books of wisdom in order of accessibility would be Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, and Job. So I can see not having a positive reaction to the book of Job.

I would have a different take on it as a whole. I believe that it’s basically the same message as Vox Day’s saying, that any sufficiently advanced intelligence will appear as insanity. God is not only a sufficiently advanced intelligence, but one that operates on timescales that are infinitely longer than ours. And so, because we are not smart enough, we don’t have enough knowledge, and we operate on a shorter timescale, we are not suited to judge God.

Also of note, Satan as referred to in the book of Job predates the Christian concept of Satan. A more literal translation would be accuser. .

Mark Boris
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A joke I heard: “The best words Job ever spoke were ‘The words of Job are ended.’ Only then could God get a word in edgewise.”

TheMaskedUnit
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Not a joke … look it up.

Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

Sgt POG
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Do you find it funny that God let Job lose his children yet kept his bitchy wife to nag him?

Booch Paradise
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I didn’t, but your mention of it made me laugh.

Jed Mask
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Yeah, but at least Job’s wife “STAYED MARRIED” to him in all his calamity. I at least give her credit for that… No many women would certainly endure the hardships without being enticed by “greener pastures” elsewhere. Amen.
Plus, Job’s wife gave him more children in the end. The BLESSINGS of God. Amen.
~ Bro. Jed

TheMaskedUnit
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It’s got a happy ending.

Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
Job 42:12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
Job 42:13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.
Job 42:14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
Job 42:15 And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
Job 42:16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons’ sons, even four generations.
Job 42:17 So Job died, being old and full of days.

Stenka Razin
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“while I was still searching but not finding…I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all” —Solomon The Wise. Ecclesiastes 7:28 (NIV)

DrTorch
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Kudos that you ask hard questions.

I think that Ecclesiastes is a vitally important book of the Bible, and that churchians avoid it b/c it has hard sayings. But no study is fair or complete w/o addressing the book’s own conclusion

Eccl 11:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

God operates on a different scale than humans in everything. We don’t like it. We’re sentient beings who think we’re intelligent enough to have a say in the matter, but both Job and Ecclesiastes indicate that this is not true. Our minds are, at best, like infants before God. Our thoughts and desires are childish, unreasonable and ignorant of the reality of the universe.

None of us like to hear this, and certainly not when we’ve spent so many years obeying, sacrificing and serving God. But humility is a necessary part of a believer’s servant hood.

spro23
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That indicates God is bored so he uses humans for entertainment purposes.
Our actions, dysfunction, drama, are just a way to keep him entertained. He could crush or remove us at anytime.
Kind of like sports games have arbitrary rules, or ‘conditions’ to make it entertaining for the viewer. You’re artificially creating tension that’s why it’s entertaining.

DrTorch
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Your conclusions don’t follow in any form or fashion. Nothing you wrote is a rigorous deduction. It’s not even a worthwhile extrapolation.
It is indeed an uncomfortable proposition, fortunately it’s not the least bit sound.
You should consider revisiting the basics of logic.

spro23
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If you were all powerful, why would you create an ant colony? They’re inferior to you in every way. You get enjoyment from their shenanigans, that’s the only reason.

DrTorch
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You presume to know the mind of God?

That’s ignorant. And ironic given the very discussion.

Nevertheless, I have sired offspring, and at that time they were inferior to me in any way. But I did not do it solely to “get enjoyment from their shenanigans.”

Ergo, your proposition is trivially shown to be wrong, and so are all of your conclusions.

Sgt POG
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Your line of reasoning is Satanic. You posit that God is the creator only to malign his motivations. Satanic, or are you a gnostic?

Sgt POG
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For his entertainment? The orthodox term you are looking for is “For His Glory”

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uncle
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just a technicality, it’s never been explicitly said that Ecclesiastes has been written by Solomon. must be much later than that. but whoever wrote it, he knew what he was talking about.

Lunostrelki
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“One interpretation of this is that if you live in sin like Solomon, you will eventually come to the conclusion that life is meaningless, all is for naught, and the only purpose is to have fun.” This is pretty much what leftism wants people to do. No surprise that conservative people consider socialism and similar ideologies to be masked Satanism.

Also, the Book of Job is the most hardcore part of Christian morality, though most people fail to understand it.

Mark Boris
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Yep Job is definitely hardcore. I love the South Park episode of Job.

Marshallaw
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“I discovered that a seductive woman is a trap more bitter than death. Her passion is a snare, and her soft hands are chains. Those who are pleasing to God will escape her, but sinners will be caught in her snare. (Ecclesiastes 7:26)”
Yokies!!……The soft hands get me every time……I can feel the flames of hell nipping at my heels!!!

Sgt POG
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“Lord make me chaste. Just not yet.”

St. Augustine

James
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The point of the Book of Job is the stating of the fact that God is sovereign, not that we are not allowed to question what happens to us. The point is to learn to put our suffering in to the proper spiritual context. This world is not the end all and be all of existence. We wanted knowledge of good and evil, so we suffer the consequences of experiencing evil. Good is swell, and evil is lousy, and there was no other way we would understand that without experiencing the lousy along with the swell. And God has provided for our long term survival and out ultimate triumph over death and suffering, so, what more do you want?

Sgt POG
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Isn’t it Job that feels separated from an unapproachable perfect and Holy God, and begs for an intermediary to speak to God on his lowly behalf?

What an honor Job had to foreshadow the coming of the intermediary! May my life be likewise an inspiration and a hope to ages of God’s people, through my suffering for Him, or otherwise.

But please Lord, not through my suffering. Amen.

James
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My favorite part of Job is in chapter 32: Job 32
1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was
righteous in his own eyes.
2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the
Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he
justified himself rather than God.
3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled,
because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

Mark Boris
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I’m a devout Christian but also a believer in game, hence why I’m here. It’s a wondrous day indeed when Roosh is teaching ME the bible.

Sgt POG
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Yes, you can learn about our creation and hence our creator from many aspects of it. From nature, from the stars, from sinners and from saints.

TSK
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I heard Solomon was a real pimp and he probably fucked well over triple digits number with women. Wouldn’t surprise if it was quadruple digits but I bet he felt like a piece of shit afterward.

By the way, what ever happened to Caleb? The guy who lived long enough but strangely disappeared out of nowhere. It’s in the early part of the Old Testament. Forgot exactly which Book but I remember reading about Caleb. The dude went M.I.A.

Whether you are Christian or not, there are some wisdom worth from the Bible.

Wes
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The bibles says he had 700 wives and 300 concubines. And who is to say he never had a “date” or two

So at least 1000

TSK
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Can you provide me exactly where in the Bible that says he had 700 wives and 300 concubines? What you said is most likely correct but I just need verification that.

Wes
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Yeah I’ll dig that up for you. That came from my memory pretty sure it’s right though

Wes
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1Kings 11:3

Wes
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Caleb did not come out of nowhere nor disappear. If you want to be bored to death read 1 Chronicles. His predecessors and ancestors are in it.

TSK
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Well then maybe I should re-read the Bible. Thanks for the note on which Book (Chapters).

Wes
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I never could deal well with with the Chronicles. Who begat who just bored me to death just

Titan000
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Notice its concerned with patrilineal succession. Very often the words “son of” or “whose Father is”
Or elsewhere. Like when David talks about going back to his father’s house. Who calls their family “my fathers house”nowadays?

Inescapably patriarchal.

Wes
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And if you want to think in terms of how screwed up we are in comparison. there are a lot of Americans who couldn’t trace their family lines that way. they don’t have a father

Titan000
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Patrilineal succession is a sign of a functional civilization. I mean even back in the 1950’s no American son referred to the family or their former home they are born into as their “Father’s House”. Men of Ancient Greece also seems to use the same language.

Wes
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Ecclesiastes is a book that any talented but aging PUA will understand. I succeeded, I did it all, but what did that bring me? Vanity all is vanity

Roosh
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Yeah it was like a punch in the gut.

Wes
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My father knew that before me. I learned it before you. But an older guy telling you that is ignored. You’re not going to know until you find out yourself. And look back and see not only that the old guys knew it. But it’s in the Bible. All I can think was “how stupid am I that this was a surprise to me”.

Steve
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Don’t sulk over a book.
You want the alternative, that you had spent the last 10 years having to ask your wife’s permission to go have a beer with your friends? Does that sound more appealing?

Wes
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Yeah but that’s a bit of a false dichotomy. there are many other choices. Most have an upside all of them have a Down. But the realization that what you thought was perfection had a huge downside is as he said a kick in the gut

Steve
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I believe somewhere ecclesiates it says something along the lines of ‘do what you will, as ultimately it all ends’.

and how humans are like grass or weeds who grow for a time then die.

Wes
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Ecclesiates is a book that needs to be read cover to cover to be understood. Solomon states facts and thoughts pretty much as they came to his mind. It starts in despair at the vanity and uselessness of life. And it ends with reasons and purpose. Basically Frederick Nietzsche plagiarized Ecclesiates adding a different and less satisfying conclusion

Wes
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It can be depressing if you do not take all it offers.

bill elder
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Not much of an old testament guy myself – those old Yahoodies were always up to their neck in shit, not because they disobey their god but because they were belligerent wanderers always squatting on someone else’s turf then moaning when they get evicted. Crap of their own making they supernaturalize. And the whole bit about “god’s chosen people” sounds a bit like racial supremacy even by the standards of the day.

I found the only useful books in the bible are the Gospels – JC was always in the face of the same mooks that PO me – grafting politicians, manipulating elites, corrupt money changers and virtue posing priests – scribes, pharisees and money changers – the same human garbage at the top of the power pyramid we have to contend with today. He no trash-talking punk, taking on the power structure of the day and holding their crimes/hypocrisy up to them. He was also no pussy pacifist who expected followers to take it up the ring piece from bullies – “he who has no sword, sell thy robe and get one” – guy was right into self/home defense.

I figure if the Roman corporate church franchise hadn’t turned his gospels into a superstition tool to subjugate/pacify people to the will of a ruling elite, Christians would be the first ones on the front lines battling organized sleaze in banking, politics, religion and politics. JC rejected them all as running outside God’s laws. He also rejected the idea of the church (organized/stratified religion) and any church hierarchy getting between followers and God.

In the end he he takes the rap refusing to rat out his pals and gets killed for his beliefs and friends – don’t make em like that any more

JC was a great roll model – if only he had a proper place in society instead of these graven images of commie martyrs.

Jed Mask
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“The most interesting books of the Bible for those who aren’t believers in God are the wisdom books of Job and Ecclesiastes.”

Does that include you Mr. Roosh?

“Ironically, this book did more to make me question God’s wisdom than any other.”

God’s Wisdom can’t be understood by our finite human understanding. I question YOUR WISDOM… or lack thereof, unfortunately…

“And then Jesus Christ came along to say that it will all be worth it—not necessarily now, but in the eternal afterlife, as long as you accept him as your savior.”

Nope, life in Christ is GOOD NOW all the way to the Everlasting. You got it wrong there sir. Amen.

Also, as you have read, it’s clear that GOD was quite fond of Job as a servant to the point it could be said God “boasted to Satan” to how loyal a good man like Job was who truly followed and lived after his God to put Satan in check.
Job’s whole ordeal was solely a TEST from God to Job and an AFFIRMATION of God’s Faith in Job against the “Accuser of the brethren”, that ol’ Serpent, Satan himself.

Smh… lol… You’re quite “funny” in your heart concerning your Bible reading but God knows your heart Mr. Roosh.

Game, game… Game, game… Amen.

~ Sincerely,
Bro. Jed

spro23
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God’s ‘rules’ indicate he is extremely powerful to the point of boredom. He needs human drama to keep him entertained. That’s why there’s blacks, muslims, natural disasters, etc…
He would be bored if there weren’t problems on earth, so problems are a feature of the human condition.
Kind of like a football game, for example. Made-up rules to create tension and drama for our entertainment.

Sgt POG
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You are talking about a different God, the demi-urge. Not YHWH

Aldous Huxley
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Because god is not a three dimensional person, but the laws of nature itself. The laws of physics and thermodynamics.
How could one bieng create the universe in seven days? He did it unconsciously by setting these rules. Organisms disperse energy from complex organic molecules and increase entropy more than if the earth was simply bombarded by solar radiation. This is also why death exists, so those vessels can also decompose and raise entropy, guaranteeing its full maximization.

TheMaskedUnit
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Is God, God or a subset of creation?

Aldous Huxley
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God simply is and everything in the universe has no choice but to obey him. If god is a singular being with any hint of consciousness he must institute rules to carry out his will. Imagine every time you drew a dot, you imagined a universe within that dot. How would you percieve anything if your attention was always that focused on just infinitessimally small portions of the world? You wouldn’t, you would give that point rules and move on, which is similar to what we do in mathematics.

TheMaskedUnit
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Ok. So is God, God or a subset of creation? For example, I am a part of creation. Is God too?

Conservative Muslim Guy
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In the Muslim version of this story, Job patiently endures all of the trials and tribulations that God puts before him, and in fact continues to praise and thank God for whatever he has. When he finally reaches the end of his rope, he does not even directly ask God for relief, he simply says:

“And Job, when he called out to his Lord, “Difficulty has touched me, and you are the Most Merciful.” 21:83

Satan finally gives up on trying to shake Job’s faith, and God both restores and increases all that Job lost. Job is seen as a prime example of patience and accepting God’s Will. He is used to instruct human beings on how to retain inner peace despite externally adverse circumstances. It’s interesting how different the lesson is in the Bible vs the Quran.

As for Solomon, in the Quran there is no mention of the 700 wives. He’s considered a Prophet of God and was never punished by God for disobeying. Again, totally different narrative.

Robert34651
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Different editor(s). All Abraham based. And if that is someone’s faith, then I support him. Judaism, Christianity, Islam are all to me the “same song, different verse”. More similarity than difference. The devil is in the details (ha-ha). Interestingly, the old Nordic religions were completely different. I think Abraham religions were based on Mesopotamian and Egyptian myths.

hv
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Interesting. Thx for adding to the discussion. I don’t see the Koranic or Islamic version of the Book of Job as being better though. the original is far more painful and realistic description of the existential angst that any thinking, reasonable human being is bound to have after being subjected to the whims of fortune. It is a brutally honest and philosophical attempt to reconcile what is clearly an amoral, uncaring, meaningless, purposeless universe and reality with a belief system that insists there is a reason and purpose to existence; that there is some sort of God; and that the universe and “God” is just and moral.

In the end, it is an empty and useless attempt to deny what is clearly and painfully obvious to almost everyone: that there really is no God or justice in this universe, and that human existence is truly arbitrary, and subject to whims and fortunes, and has no rhyme or reason. Evil and sociopathic people sometimes, or rather, often, prosper, and good, moral men with principles suffer. This is exactly the kind of outcome you expect when there is no overarching justice or moral order to reality or to this universe. Instead of accepting this painfully obvious truth, the Book of Job, and religious texts in general, demand men willingly blunt their most powerful sense, which is reason and intelligence, and throw their hands up in the air instead and pretend “God knows best.” The more honest and realistic conclusion is that if all the evidence and reason points to a universe without justice or a moral order, and where there doesn’t seem to be any real purpose or logic to events, and where misfortunes befall good, honest, pious and principled men while scheming, sociopathic and evil men prosper, then it really must be because there is no God or justice or moral order in this universe.

At that time the Book of Job and other religious texts were written, given the lack of scientific understanding of reality and life and evolution people had, it was pretty much inconceivable to even consider that life and this planet and human beings weren’t the result of some divine being or beings. In today’s day and age, however, w hen we know so much more about how life evolves, and how our planet and sun are merely one of billions and trillions in the universe, we can more easily conceive of a Godless universe that nevertheless through a timespan measuring billions of years, manages to usher into existence a planet hospitable to life, which eventually evolves into a higher order intelligence. I don’t pretend this is an easy thing to accept, or that even science can explain everything (there are still many great questions to be answered, such as how does something come from nothing, and how did the universe spring into existence, and where do the laws of the universe come from that allow some structure and order and also life) but I think it is far easier to now understand of how this planet came into existence, and how human life evolved and how we came to be on this planet… without any particular divine intervention. In fact, we know it is by a happy accident (for us humans, anyway) that an asteriod destroyed the reign of dinosaurs which allowed mammals to emerge, who we descended from eventually.

TheMaskedUnit
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That Job is awesome … who needs a Savior anyway, right? God was so lucky to have servant like Job. He should be more grateful and appreciative.

Robert34651
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Roosh, I suggest you go back to Buddhism or better…. Taoism for a life philosophy. Also suggest you read ” Paul and The Invention of Christianity”. Alexander The Great said it best: “I do not fear leaving this world any more than I feared coming into it.” And that is as it should be for all of us. If you can not reconcile death, you should not live. Get over it and enjoy your life. Do something or make something. Make a contribution to the world, don’t sit around pontificating about it. Get out of the loser mentality. Beta, Beta, Beta.

Robert34651
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Roosh, those last comments were not directed at you. They were for others.

Sgt POG
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Hi everyone. Let’s have a fight. Protestant versus Roman Catholic. Go!

jz95
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Deism.

JESUSisLORD
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Fundamental Baptists vs every other denomination

Robert34651
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The main lesson is that the problems of antiquity remain the same as today. This was written about two biblical books that helped people live and come to terms with their existence. …. You cannot have the highs without the lows. ……. The trick is to ignore the lows.

XXX
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Hundreds of millions of supposed Christians in this world, a good percentage of those hundreds of millions are in more or less decent health, so why with so many hands to get things done, is the world such a mess. Oh wait the Christian can’t get their little hands dirty because only good can judge, can take a life and so on……. This screwed up earth needs well intentioned people to have power and take the future in their own hands, meanwhile Christians will keep praying for all the rot to magically disappear by some magical miracle. Humans ruined this earth and humans can try and fix it.

XXX
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I’m not an atheist, I don’t know what I am to be honest. But when I analyze nature I keep coming to the conclusion that its not without an aim. It seems as though it aiming for something. It bothers me when people think of God only in the Judeo Christian sense. To me the Judeo Christian way of seeing God is just one interpretation of what it could be, a bad interpretation to be frank.

TheMaskedUnit
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A Christian is acceptable to God because he trusts in the work of His Son, Jesus Christ alone, not our works or righteousness.

Everybody else is basically trying to get into the Happy Hunting Ground by proving how worthy they are by following a variable list of does and don’ts to please allah …

ari
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umm, job wants a relationship with god, not a relationship with a soda pop-dispenser, basically. to love god in longing, no matter what, is what god was seeking? do we just want to use god, as if the divine were a machine? or do we want to know and be known, love and be loved? do you want a deity that you put a quarter in, and it automatically gives you a soda? do you want a mafia god- tithe your ten percent, get everything else by hook or crook?

do you love your father? do you love your mother? do you love them even if they have parkinson’s or alzheimer’s? do you love them if they are tired, illiterate coalminers? do you love them if they are far more accomplished than you will ever be? (Depths, heights?)

Job, arguably, is a theatrical piece where the writer of Job was asking – what if? The final chapter is a deus ex machina. You can ignore it.

JESUSisLORD
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Roosh, check out Christian pastor Steven Anderson. He knows the Bible like the back of his hand, and he’s the most hated Christian in America by leftists of all breed, that means he’s onto something. One can learn a lot from this man. I’ll post a link to a sermon on the Old Testament. This is real Christianity. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Don’t go to hell. Also, if you haven’t already study the controversy of the new modern Bibles compared with the King James. The King James is the word of God in English. None of the others and after time you can see why. Muslims are actually right when they say the Bible has been tampered with. But not the KJB and the textus receptus. Good luck to you, you’ve helped me grow a lot as a man also. I hope you get saved.

https://youtu.be/9U0kG3-qe2Q

questioningall1 .
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You’re wrong about the book of Job. Job accused God of not allowing him to question, but when when we get to the end of the story, we find that God, in fact allowed Job to question him. And in fact, God provided for Job, because He loved Job, not because Job never questioned Him:

Job 9:32-35
32 “God is not a mortal like me,
so I cannot argue with him or take him to trial.
33 If only there were a mediator between us,
someone who could bring us together.
34 The mediator could make God stop beating me,
and I would no longer live in terror of his punishment.
35 Then I could speak to him without fear,
but I cannot do that in my own strength.

questioningall1 .
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The wisdom of Ecclesiastes is that n-o-t-h-i-n-g is better than God. Nothing is more fulfilling than God. Nothing is eternal, but God. Nothing fills the heart, but God.

Aliciadjones2
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Domitian
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Interesting insights – I’ve been meaning to finish the Old Testament. In terms of narrative I’m still around Exodus and Leviticus.

yup
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while I was still searching but not finding– I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all.
Ecclesiastes 7:28

shiloh
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ROK has somewhat missed the innermost significance thrust of the Book of Job.
I apologize for the partitioning of the argument; but to appropriate the context of ROK’s treatise one should expose the argument, scriptural, literal or otherwise. This reply is taken from a question asked on another forum. The focus of the argument then is in the third part of this reply (in brackets).

http://www.cosmosdawn.net and http://www.cosmosdawn.net/forum
http://www.cosmosdawn.net/forum/index.php?threads/the-job-of-vitruvian-mankind.1532/

The JOB for Every Cosmic Man and Vitruvian Woman

Dear Troy aka JobHe!

Yes, this forum is appropriate to explore the ‘ancient scrolls’ and testimonies. Most people are aware of the ‘holy books’ like the bible, the quoran, the vedas and many other testimonials of historical times and settings.
Most are also aware about how much ‘damage’ those ‘sacred scripts’ have caused on all levels, mental, emotional and physical, due to their incomplete and often erroneous interpretations and translations.

The Gospel of Thomas is the ‘master code’ and perhaps the sole testimonial in the collective human history, which has not as yet been ‘deciphered’ sufficiently to be used by the ‘elitist factions’ of control in that human history.

So before I am prepared to delve into some of those ‘mysterious’ details, which have eluded all of the ‘expertise, history, lineage and nous’ of the ‘Powers-That-Be’; I would advise you and anyone interested to have a thorough look at the ‘Book of Job’, which is as the title here suggests; your JOB, as say known by your most intimate ‘soul identity’.

The oldest book in the Torah (Old Testament in the Judeo-Christian Bible) is the ‘Book of Job’.
Its encoding represents the ‘Great Dilemma’ for the present cosmos to reconfigure itself in the redefinition of the old symbols and archetypes in new ones.
Can the ‘authority’ of the ‘gods’ become undermined by mere ‘mortal human men and women’?

The following excerpts from Job and expositions shall allow the discerning reader to answer this question in the affirmative and show that the ‘Birth of a New World’ requires more than cocreating dreamtimers, might these be indigenous medicine women and shamanic composers or colonised ‘playwrights’, scriptwriters, producers and directors, say as filmmakers and as actors and actresses.

Satan and God have a ‘bet’ or heavenly argument as to Job’s resilience to curse God because of his misfortunes – God eventually wins the ‘bet’ after rebuking the ‘humans’ attempting to prevent Job’s personal questioning (GNOSIS=WISDOM=CATHERINE=83) of God’s purposes.

!

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Job.1.6-12:
“Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou?
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, on that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Then Satan answered the Lord , and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon him self put not forth thy hand.
So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.”

And Job’s seven sons were killed in the eldest brother’s collapsing house in a great windstorm, his sheep and camels perished in fire and his servants were killed by invaders.

Job.1.20-22:
“Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground and worshipped,
And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither:
the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.
In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.”

Job.2.1-11:
“Again there was a day….
And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

And Satan answered the Lord, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
And he took him a potsherd to scape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes. Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity?
curse God and die.
But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh.
What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?
In all this did not Job sin with his lips.”

Three of Job’s friends came to mourn with him; Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar.
For seven days and nights they mourned in silence; after Job had cursed himself and his very existence, Eliphaz and Bildad reproved Job, arguing that he must have sinned against God to experience such great misfortunes.
Job replied his quest to be a search for understanding the works of the almighty, considering himself innocent of any wrong doings; Zophar then charges Job with mocking the almighty, and that the ways of the Lord can never be examined or found out by man.

Job.19.1-29:
“Then Job answered and said,
How long will you vex my soul, and break me in pieces with words?
These ten times have ye reproached me: ye are not ashamed that you make yourselves strange to me.
And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.
If indeed ye will magnify yourselves against me, and plead against me my reproach:
Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.
Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment.
He hath fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and he hath set darkness in my paths. He hath stripped me of my glory, and taken the crown from my head.
He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.
He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.
His troops come together, and raise up their way against me, and encamp round about my tabernacle.
He hath put my brethren far from me, and mine acquaintance are verily estranged from me.
My kinsfolk have failed, and my familiar friends have forgotten me.
They that dwell in mine house, and my maids, count me for a stranger: I am an alien in their sight.
I called my servant, and he gave me no answer; I intreated him with my mouth.
My breath is strange to my wife, though I intreated for the children’s sake of mine own body.
Yea, young children despised me; I arose, and they spake against me.
All my inward friends abhorred me; and they whom I loved are turned against me.
My bone cleaveth to my skin and to myflesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.
Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Why do you persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?
Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy my body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. But ye should say, Why persecute we him, seeing the root of the matter is found in me?
Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment.”

Job.22.1-5:
“Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered (Job) and said,
Can a man be profitable unto God, as he that is wise may be profitable unto himself?
Is it any pleasure to the Almighty, that thou are righteous? or is it gain to him, that thou makest thy ways perfect?
Will he reprove thee for fear of thee? will he enter with thee into judgment?
Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite?”

Job.25.1-6:
“Then answered Bildal the Shuhite, and said, Dominion and fear are with him, he maketh peace in his high places. Is there any number of his armies? and upon whom doth not his light arise?
How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?”

Job.26.1-14:
“But Job answered and said, How hast thou helped him that is without power?
how savest thou the arm that hath no strength? How hast thou counselled him that hath no wisdom?
and how hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is? To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?
Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.
Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.
He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.
He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud.
By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him?
but the thunder of his power who can understand?”

Job.27.1-12:
“Moreover Job continued his parable, and said, As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.
God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me.
My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.
Let mine enemy be as the wicked, and he that riseth up against me as the unrighteous.
For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he has gained, when God taketh away his soul?
Will God hear his cry when trouble cometh upon him?
Will he delight himself in the Almighty? will he always call upon God?
I will teach you by the hand of God: That which is with the Almighty will I not conceal.
Behold, all ye yourselves have seen it; why then are ye thus altogether vain?”

Job.28.28:
“And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.”

Job.31.35-36:
“Oh that one would hear me! behold, my desire is, that the Almighty would answer me, and that mine adversary had written a book.
Surely I would take it upon my shoulder, and bind it as a crown to me.”

Job.32.1-3:
“So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.
Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.”

Job.32.6-10:
“And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opionion.
I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.
But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Great man are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.
Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew you mine opinion.”

Job.33.3-6:
“My words shall be of the uprightness of my heart: and my lips shall utter knowledge clearly.
The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.
Behold, I am according to thy wish in God’s stead: I also am formed out of the clay.”

Job.33.12-16:
“Behold, in this you art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.
Why dost thou strive against him? for he giveth not account of any of his matters.
For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,”

Job.33.31-33:
“Mark well, O Job, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I will speak.
If thou hast any thing to say, answer me: speak, for I desire to justify thee.
If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom.”

Job.34.5-15:
“For Job hath said, I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.
Should I lie against my right? my wound is incurable without transgression.
What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water?
Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men.
For he hath said, It profiteth a man nothing that he should delight himself with God.
Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.
For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.
Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed the whole world?
If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.”

Job.34.33-37:
“Should it be according to thy mind? he will recompense it, whether you refuse, or whether thou choose; and not I: therefore speak what thou knowest.
Let men of understanding tell me, and let a wise man hearken unto me.
Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.”

Job.35.13-16:
“Surely God will not hear vanity, neither will the Almighty regard it.
Although thou sayest thou shalt not see him, yet judgment is before him; therefore trust thou in him.
But now, because it is not so, he hath visited in his anger; yet he knoweth it not in great extremity:
Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge.”

Job.36.1-5:
“Elihu also proceeded, and said,
Suffer me a little, and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God’s behalf.
I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.
For truly my words shall not be false; he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.
Behold, God is mighty, and despiseth not any: he is mighty in strength and wisdom.”

Job.36.21-26:
“Take heed, regard not iniquity: for this hast thou chosen rather than affliction.
Behold, God exalteth by his power: who teacheth like him?
Who hath enjoined him his way? or who can say, Thou hast wrought iniquity?
Remember that thou magnify his work, which men behold.
Every man may see it; man may behold it far off.
Behold, God is great, and we know him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.”

Job.37.7-8:
“He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work.
Then the beasts go into dens, and remain in their places.”

Job.37.14-24:
“Hearken onto this , O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?
Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?
Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness.
Shall it be told him that I speak? if a man speak, surely he shall be swallowed up.
And now men see not the bright light which is in the clouds: but the wind passeth, and cleanseth them.
Fair weather cometh out of the north: with God is terrible majesty.
Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict.
Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.”

shiloh
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shiloh
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Job.37.14-24: “Hearken onto this , O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind? Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness. Shall it be told him that I speak? if a man speak, surely he shall be swallowed up. And now men see not the bright light which is in the clouds: but the wind passeth, and cleanseth them. Fair weather cometh out of the north: with God is terrible majesty. Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict. Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.”

Job.38.1..-41: “Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
{We were next to you, at your left side and watched you do it, taking notes!}

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
{The measure is the Planck-Length oscillation, macroquantised into your own eigenwavelength lps}

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof?
{The unification of gravity with electromagnetism, the corner stone being the EMMR}

…Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
{Yes, we have explored the deep seas/subconscious in submarines and been to the moon}

Have the gates of death been opened to thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
{Yes, our Beloved(s) are on the ‘other side’ in Abraham’s bosom – Luke.16:19-31}

Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
{We know for about 300 years now, that the earth is an oblate spheroid and not flat, with an equatorial diameter of so 40,000 kilometres in 4D spacetime}

Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof?
{Light in your terms is the W*-state of energy in transformation, darkness the B*-state}

That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
{The bound is the VPE and the pathways are the UFoQR in the magnetic monopoles}

Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
{We are as old as you are, namely 19.11 Billion years Gregorian}

Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?… Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who has gendered it?
{We understand the icecold fire of the New Jerusalem to be your piercing intellect and the hailstones of your ‘talents’ (Rev.16.21) to be omniscientific facts and definitions in your modular duality}

Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
{We know the constellations to be superpositions of many stars at various distance scales; individual stars follow stellar evolutionary cycles, their influences being psychological inferences acting directly upon magnetopolic fields in the pentagonally defined DNA helix and drawing upon the historical archetypes, which created the mappings in the sky out of the starhuman mind}

Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
{The ancient science of Astrology is a direct mapping of the Israelite generations of Jacob, also redefined in 12 apostles, 12 hours, 12 months and the 12 stars upon the crown of the ascended ‘Mary’ rebirthing the ChristChild by the ‘Holy Ghost’ in Revelation.12.
The zodiacal dominion is like a curse on humanity, finding itself bondage to certain archetypical characteristics until the 13th starsign of Arachne/Ophiuchus can unify all of the 12 in a 13th in the ‘swallowing of the tail by the head’ by the cosmic serpent Ourobos, who is the zodiacal wheel}

…Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are? Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,…
{Weather patterns depend on the equilibrium systems of the terrestrial and solar cyclicities. Atmospheric air currents and oceanic water currents are influenced by the magnetic currents of the solar wind and even galactic phenomna, subject to pressure fluctuations, which can be caused by terrestrial magma currents, blending fire, heat convection and earth-telluric currents. Influencing such pressure gradients in temperature and energy, say through the VPE would reduce the randomness (defined in statistical distributions) in weather patterns to a degree, but the mathematical order, as defined through your own selfdefinition always engages complexity- and chaos theory with its parameters. The whirlwinds or tornadoes as the ‘bottles of heaven’ are macroquantised manifestations of the VPE, thus the negation of a tornadoes ‘eye’ as a vortex-sink is a vortex-source, also macroquantised from the Vacuum. The notion of wisdom gained is linked to experiences, either directly or as observer.
Once your children have experienced enough of your ‘dark satanic’ side, then they may have enough wisdom to know what works in their society and what does not. They are repeating the same old formulae of war, financial monopoly and educated lordship over and over again and seem to be too intellectually inert to change their perceptions, unwilling to experience your ‘light’ side of love, undertanding, tolerance and a devotion to harmonies in the mass senses. That is where the heart comes in, there is an understanding of the heart which can challenge the reluctance of the head-intellect to change anything. This heart-level or gnosis derives from your own soul, that is your own collective experience as all of us as your human children in particular and all that exists in general.
So remembrance or a love and communication with you automatically engages the collective starhuman heart and that is the true wisdom, because it cannot deceive, as the human mind can.}”

Job.39.9-12: “Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib? Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee? Wilt thoe trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave your labour to him? Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?”
{The Unicorn is the ‘protector of the Virgin Mother’ giving birth to the ChristChild within every man and woman of the dragonomies; it is symbolised by Jacob’s and Zilpah’s son Gad and the starsign of Virgo under which John the Baptist was born; its strength is the Centaur of Chiron and the myths which go with that identification. The Unicorn only serves the ‘unified’ humanity as a monosong of two in one in two; so it will bring home our seed, provided our hearts and minds are willing to become a new starhuman race of Rainbow Dragons}.

Job.40.1-..24:
“Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said,
Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Then Job answered the Lord, and said,
“Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.”

Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
“Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Wilt thou also disannul my judgment?
wilt thou condemn me, that you mayest be righteous?
Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?….
Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in his place.
Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.
Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.
Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass, as an ox.
Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
His bones are as strong pieces of brass; …He is the chief of the ways of God:
he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him….. Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.”

Job.41.1-..34:
“Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook?…He beholdeth all high things:
he is a king over all the children of pride.”

Job.42.1-7:
“Then Job answered the Lord, and said,
I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be witholden from thee.
Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.”

Job.42.12-17:
“So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep (before 7,000), and six thousand camels (before 3,000), and a thousand yoke of oxen (before 500), and a thousand she donkeys (before 500).
He had also seven sons and three daughters.
And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons’ sons, even four generations.
So Job died, being old and full of days.”

Job is every man and his job is to answer God’s questions for humanity as hisher children.
“Are they grown up yet? Are they ready for the next step forward to claim their inheritances? As long as they fear me as a punishing supernatural deity, they cannot advance.”
One ‘fears’ God in respectfulness, like parents should have the respect of their children.
Once the children can answer the questions regarding the creation-business, then they must have the intellectual understanding, if not the wisdom from the heart, to advance into the starhuman potential promised to all of them since the days of Abraham and purposed for that since the beginning of time.

Job as ‘Man’, is told to ‘gird up his loins’ and act like a grown-up man – a StarMan, a Dragon as a Bluey or a Purple Queen – a DragonQueenBee