What A Time To Be 17 Years Old

My little brother is a senior in high school. When I was his age, it was a no-brainer to go to college. At a cost of about $4,000 a year, it turned out being a wise investment because once month after graduation I was fully employed with a good salary.

Times are different now. Tuition at my old school, the University Of Maryland, has more than doubled to $10,000 a year, and jobs for graduates are scarce but for a few specialties. My brother was planning on coasting in college and not declaring a major until the last moment, but I told him how dangerous that would be for him. If he coasted into the wrong major, which is what coasters tend to do, he would face a debt load of at least $40,000. I told him that a lot of kids are graduating with marginal degrees and no job prospects, becoming slaves to the system.

“If you want to go to college,” I told him, “pick a major where there will be a job waiting for you.” My advice was simple, but among high school guidance counselors and parents of his peers, it’s blasphemy. They still have the belief that “everyone must go to college no matter what.” Even my dad, who is well aware of deteriorating economic conditions, stubbornly clings to this holy mantra, pushing my brother into attending college without accounting for what he wants to study.

For the past year, I’ve been trying to help my brother find interests or passions that could translate into a career. The problem is that he was born in the age of distraction. His brain is wired for the internet, Youtube, and Facebook, so it’s hard for him to focus on difficult tasks without wanting to check his internet accounts and get the dopamine hit of something new but insignificant. Nothing is more interesting to him than the computer or television screen.

I told him that a STEM degree would be his best bet if he went to college, even though I know it’s not bulletproof. He would have to be the best at what he attempts. He initially told me he may want to be a computer programmer.

“Have you ever programmed before?” I asked, already knowing the answer.


“Well, do you want to pay $40k and 4 years to find out if it’s something you want to do for the rest of your life?”

I bought him a beginners’ programming book and told him to try it out for half an hour a day. He did, for two weeks.

“There are a million kids programming right now, writing apps and making web sites, and they aren’t even old enough to go to college. How will you keep up with them and earn a good income if you don’t want to learn in your spare time?” So programming was out.

Then he declared an interest in writing. I told him to create a blog and start writing. You definitely don’t need to go to college for that. His writing is strong for his age, and he seems to enjoy it, but after three posts, the blog went dormant.

Instead of experimenting with new things to find his passion, he rather play video games over the internet with his friends that live just a couple blocks away. He looks forward to graduating high school not to enter the adult world, but to play more games. I can’t blame him, because I definitely wasn’t motivated at 17, but it’s not 1997 anymore. There’s no more room for loafers to succeed. I had to tell him what was in store.

“Right now everything is provided for you. Dad pays for food, shelter, and internet. You have air conditioning, laptop, tablet, X Box, smart phone, everything. You don’t understand that these things require money and therefore work. You’re thinking that once you graduate, life gets easy and you can enjoy your toys, but it will get much harder, and it will stay hard for many years until you establish yourself. You want to graduate high school to relax, but you’re actually relaxing right now, and it won’t get any easier.

“One of two things will happen. First is you get into college, pick a good major, study for four years, then get a job. Second is you pick a manual labor job that you may not like and stick with that until you figure things out. Problem is Dad won’t let you sit around the house all day and play games, so no matter what you will have to work hard.

“If you truly don’t know what you want to do, which seems to be the case, put college on hold. Don’t go unless you are sure, because otherwise it could be the biggest mistake of your life when in four years you will be no closer to knowing what you want and then become a slave to the banks paying off a 20-year loan. It’s better to get any job, even one that you hate, than to be a slave.

“It’s not fair that you have to make this decision now, but life, as you will learn, isn’t fair. If you don’t know what you want, experiment as cheaply as possible before making a big investment in your future.”

Even if my brother majors in computer programming, and does well in it, how will he be able to compete with the low-priced foreign guys on Elance that I hire myself? How can he know which job won’t be outsourced to Bangalore or which upcoming technology won’t render him position obsolete?

“It seems that the only jobs that are safe,” I said, “are ones that require your body and hands to be present. These are jobs like plumber, electrician, mechanic, truck driver, mover, oil rig worker, construction worker, and taxicab driver. In knowledge economies like ours, the safest job is one which can’t be transmitted over the internet. Simply look back 50 years to see which jobs existed. If they still exist today, even after the internet, that means they are insulated from technology. They have a good chance of existing in the next 50 years. Your life won’t be glamorous with these jobs, but at least you can eat and put a roof over your head instead of depending on me, dad, or the government.”

When I look at my little brother, I see myself. I see a kid who is doing well in school just to please his parents. I see a kid who doesn’t know what he wants to be and who wants to finally finish high school to have fun. The biggest difference is that I was lucky to graduate during a time when a university education was cheap and jobs were plentiful. I could afford to make what turned out to be a career mistake, but he can’t. He has to grow up a lot faster than I did, and I can only wonder what will become of him as he embarks on this difficult journey.

Don’t Miss: 7 Things I Would Tell My Teenage Self


  1. randomsurf October 21, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Nice post.

  2. A PROgrammer October 21, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Good post but don’t scare him away from a CS degree. Even with outsourcing programmers are still in high demand, especially on the east coast.

    1. Jens October 21, 2013 at 9:32 am

      That’s the impression I’ve had too. If you look at dice.com you’ll see tons of jobs and a lot of people in the business just adviced me to take the degree because of raising demands (which I probably will).

    2. UncleElmer October 21, 2013 at 9:38 am

      It is imperative for the aspiring compooterist to couple programming skills with expertise in a specialty area like finance or physics. Otherwise you will be sucking ass at Encorpera while fending off attacks from up-and-coming lady STEM co-workers.

      1. A PROgrammer October 21, 2013 at 10:03 am

        Good point. Domain knowledge (in whatever field you happen to work) is what takes a programmer from useful to indispensable.

  3. lolz October 21, 2013 at 9:32 am

    He could also become a looser like you,run away abroad,teach english for 2€/hour and get ocassional 6 1-2 times a year.

    1. UncleElmer October 21, 2013 at 9:35 am

      Sure beats working with “software engineers” at Encorpera.

    2. Jeb October 21, 2013 at 1:48 pm

      Get a dictionary and learn how to spell. Roosh earned a science degree and worked in his chosen field until he decided to break free and live abroad, where he writes and teaches for a living, travels, meets a variety of people, and beds high-caliber women. He has learned several languages, acclimated himself to a number of foreign cultures, continued his self-education, kept himself in shape, and dealt with loneliness and homesickness. He’s admirably self-motivated and self-sufficient. I don’t know of many guys who have the cojones to undertake any of the above.

      What do you do?

  4. andrewjude October 21, 2013 at 9:32 am

    If your brother goes to an Ivy it doesn’t really matter what he studies even if it is a soft subject i.e arts/humanities/social sciences.

    In all honesty you are correct though, he doesn’t need to rush his decision in the event he genuinely doesn’t know.

  5. UncleElmer October 21, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Excellent post Roosh and exactly what I have been trying to tell my sons Shemp and Hermann.

    As an older man I face the same forces and have only survived through developing marketable skills and the salesmanship to acquire work. Frankly it’s even worse for me as I get “age discrimination”. Attempting to find work through standard channels of resumes and HR interactions is a humiliating waste of time so I have to sell my craft directly to the real players. I describe the methods in my Spearhead essay “Employment Game”.

  6. peteonrails October 21, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Guide him into a field where he can start a business that he will be successful with. Plumbing is fine, but not if you’re going to be a plumber for 40 years. Own the plumbing company. Working your ass off so that someone else can get all the money is still a kind of slavery.

    1. UncleElmer October 21, 2013 at 9:40 am

      I hired a plumber to lay some pipe for me. He charged $100/hr.

      But his legs were covered with horrible purple splotches that he said were the result of breathing pipe dope for 20 years.

    2. UncleElmer October 21, 2013 at 9:40 am

      I hired a plumber to lay some pipe for me. He charged $100/hr.

      But his legs were covered with horrible purple splotches that he said were the result of breathing pipe dope for 20 years.

    3. thecaptainpower October 21, 2013 at 10:18 am

      I doubt there are any unemployed accountants in the DC metro area. Accounting is boring but almost guaranteed employment. H&R block hires thousands of workers every tax season with barely any creditentials

      1. WayneEarl October 21, 2013 at 12:30 pm

        you would be wrong.

        of all knowledge workers, accountants are the easiest to replace. it’s called Microsoft Excel

      2. thecaptainpower October 21, 2013 at 12:36 pm

        no way….My old man is an accountant and half of my friends. Accounting ain’t going anywhere..

      3. Pablo Martin Podhorzer October 22, 2013 at 4:10 pm

        You always need a chump to sign all those fake books. Ask the guys in Goldman Sachs if they feel poor.

  7. Chase Steel October 21, 2013 at 9:48 am

    The military, especially a relatively easy job, is the credited option for a high school graduate now. You will get out in 4 years and then go to college on Uncle Sam’s dime; you’ll be older than the other students, but not so much older that you’ll be out of place. Military service on a college application, not to mention taking the SAT as a 22 year old, is a huge admissions advantage over the typical 18 year old. And if he did actually like it, he could then go the officer route after 4 years of fucking around in college for free assuming no stupid mistakes.

    1. Slashfund October 21, 2013 at 10:04 am

      Fighting the war against “sexual harassment” of empowered female soldiers

      1. TheOverwatch October 21, 2013 at 10:11 am

        This is the route I went. I served 5 years, got out, went to community college for a year(to be sure it’s what I really wanted) and then applied to the “big” universities in my home state. As a veteran with good grades from community college, I got accepted into everywhere I applied. I figured, the universities knew I could pay(GI BILL) and the grades were probably a secondary consideration. A lot of schools these days have relaxed admissions standards because they want to get a hold of those federally subsidized education loans.

    2. Patrick Henry was Right October 21, 2013 at 3:42 pm

      I want you to know I respect enlisted men and most officers. But the leadership at the top in the Mitary are a bunch of Harvard and Georgetown socialists who would sell their mothers to the Illuminati Zionist bankers they work for.

      The US military serves now to make private corporations rich in the name of American ideals. Read marine Corps Major general Smedeley D. Butlers book ‘War is a racket’ it was a rip off back even in WWI and all this crap- the income tax, fiat money printing Federal Reserve, bogus wars AIPAC started are all Zionist NWO Illuminati games carried out by shabbus goy
      Masonic leaders and ill informed snowed over grunts. Read the blog
      My name is Joe Cortina for an education for a combat vet spec opsOfficer business man turned Political blogger for the who’s and why of this bs game today.

  8. Adrian Johnson October 21, 2013 at 9:53 am

    I would try and instill into your younger brother the importance of picking a rigorous major in the STEM area. While it doesn’t guarantee a job (being able to sell oneself is) STEM degrees are a sign of intelligence and can net him a job somewhere that may have everything or nothing to do with what he learned.

    The point is, tell him to avoid the pointless liberal arts degrees and to find a niche where he enjoys what he does and happens to also make the most amount of money. I’d suggest going into IT and the like. I’ve programmed and find it interesting, but it’s not my cup of tea. He should go down the comp sci route only for the ability to land a decent paying job out of school.

    And teach him game. Game helps you sell yourself. Getting a job is a lot like dating.

  9. thecaptainpower October 21, 2013 at 9:58 am

    I recommend accounting or medicine. Times have definately changed. My senior year of college (2001) i worked part time for 6 an hour plus tips, and used to go joy riding in my car with 1.25 a gallon gas. 16 years later gas has tripled, tuition up 5x and nyc tolls up 3x. I dont know how kids can survive. Also get ur brother into the gym, and throw him a couple hundred for spring break if his grades are good.

    1. Stephen October 21, 2013 at 12:42 pm

      Yeah, go into medical school. Instead of 40k in student loans he will have 150k. Brilliant captainpower!

      1. thecaptainpower October 21, 2013 at 1:37 pm

        Do you know of any unemployed Doctors? Graduate school cost me $35K, but I got a $15K raise…..Tuition costs aren’t everything if you can justify it.

      2. drkennethnoisewater October 21, 2013 at 2:45 pm

        Has Obamacare kicked in yet? Doctors will either end up working for a pittance or, if they’re exceptional enough to still have a private practice, stop taking insurance of any form and work for cash.

      3. Read Frotz Springmeiers Books October 21, 2013 at 3:08 pm

        If this County still had a spine we’d tell the Republiscum HMOs on their corporate welfare and Demoncrap party’s Obummer care/ socialist death panels to go jump in the lake. We need freedom and because we love XBox more than fighting for our rights- we don’t have many freedoms left. Always remember its khazar ‘Jewish’ Illimunati finance that’s behind it and their shabbus got Mason errand boys. Read Fritz Spring meiers Bloodlines of The Illuminati and Anything by Texe Mars.

        Ps- any Doctor with hf a business model ought to make $350k/ yer or double or triple that (basic office 350 internist 700 plastic surgeon 1mil).

      4. Ara October 23, 2013 at 11:17 am

        I’m wondering what are these death panels you speak of? And what is Obama care, can you elaborate? I know I could look it up, but I want to hear it from someone who knows what he’s talking about.

      5. fearsometycoon October 30, 2013 at 8:03 am

        HMOs were introduced in the Clinton administration IIRC.

      6. Westsider November 6, 2013 at 2:36 pm

        A decrease in medical compensation would mostly be a good thing.

        There is no reason doctors should make 4-40 times median income, if not for the AMA’s artificial restriction on the number of spots in US medical schools.

        There would be plenty of doctors originating from the [hint: disproportionately AAPI, of which I am one,] population of California, and its public university system alone, if not for the interference of the AMA in the market for a US medical education.

      7. gaoxiaen November 26, 2013 at 9:01 pm

        The AMA is little more than the doctors’ labor union so, of course they are a barrier to market entry. It’s interesting that the Marines were sent into Grenada to rescue American medical students.

  10. Slashfund October 21, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Rather suspicious when college grad “knowledge workers” recommend manual labor to others. Resource extraction and the building trades are certainly useful, but they are physically demanding and subject to tight demand and boom-bust cycles. Professional drivers will be decimated in the near future by robot vehicles. If he’s not dedicated to STEM I’d recommend a cozy government job like police, an overpaid position where men are still respected, and which will teach moral flexibility beneficial for Game.

    1. Roosh_V October 21, 2013 at 1:22 pm

      You’re right, it is suspicious that someone who spent 10 years in microbiology stopped doing it for a career that didn’t need a college education. Manual labor is a good avenue for those who are unsure of what to commit to while also giving you the liberty to pursue other interests.

      1. Anon October 21, 2013 at 11:41 pm

        Roosh my younger sister is 16 and will be a senior next fall. I’m going to pick up a copy of worthless for her and suggest something similar. Since she’s a girl though, I doubt she can decide what she wants to do while doing manual labor.

        How about serving or bartending (the latter brings up some questions though) until she decides what she wants to do?
        In the meantime, she can intern or shadow in different industries to get a low risk picture of what the field is like.
        Another idea is to get an associates from community college out of the way, take a break if she still doesnt know, then go to college later.

      2. College brah October 22, 2013 at 10:56 am

        Oh how jealous I am of people in Murka who don’t get paid $0.95 an hour for manual labor… It might sound that job prospects are shitty, but you are guys have it way easy bro.

        And job security FYI is being in the top 15% in whatever field you choose to do. People are NOT entitled to a job just because they have a bachelors from some random school with a 2.5 GPA. There’s a reason no University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign computer science grad with a 3.2 GPA can’t get a job paying less than $70,000 right after graduation.

        Takeaway: develop self discipline and work hard to be in the upper regions of your pyramid. You are only as good as your credentials and skills.

    2. anon1 October 24, 2013 at 1:59 pm

      >a cozy government job

      exactly part of the problem.

      people get so fucking disillusioned they give up and give a good old suck of the corpogovernment teet because it seems to be an excellent short term fix to an inherently long term problem

  11. TheOverwatch October 21, 2013 at 10:18 am

    I too have a brother who’s a junior in high school right now. All the things you describe, I see in my own brother. Life is one endless house party, with school and the occasional chores interspersed. He doesn’t have a clue what he’s going to do after high school. I was much the same way. Luckily I stumbled, really, into the United States Marine Corps.

    In my opinion, all fresh high school graduates with average to below average grades, should NOT attend a major university. They should first go to community college to really find out if they want to do 4 more years of academics. I met a lot of students at my university(University of Connecticut) that came straight from high school, attended for 3 semesters, flunked out, and then were saddled with $10,000+ in student loans. They ended up with a large bill and no degree. This happens a lot, and the universities hide it.

  12. Robert K. October 21, 2013 at 10:21 am

    A suggestion for your dad.

    He should tell your brother to find a part time job and ask him for a monthly rent to help with food and stuff… The rent should be symbolic but high enough for your brother to not waste away what he will earn from his after school job.

    Your brother will learn from the working experience. He will also learn that what he now takes for granted has a cost in real life.

    Your father should save the money he gets from your brother and give them back to him the day he will leave the nest. Of course your brother should not know this.

    1. anon1 October 24, 2013 at 1:56 pm

      >Your father should save the money he gets from your brother and give them back to him the day he will leave the nest. Of course your brother should not know this.

      i’ve known of many a man thats doing just this idea, its a great motivator.

      if i ever have kids, i think i’ll do the same with them about starting up a business in summer vacations.

      they’re given a set amount that they need to make bigger, if they try and fail, no biggie, they learned and are accountable, they get the same amount next summer to try again.

      if they take the money and do fuck all? no money the following summer.

      the biggest mistake my admittedly awesome Dad did was think that college/uni solved everybodies problems [and that we’d all get jobs].

      nope you gotta work, you gotta strive, you gotta be ballsy and take calculated risks. thats how improvement is made.

      no one especially in this day and age is going to hand a young man a silver platter of money or make them into a rent boy [fucking disgusting in my opinion] for hire of some older woman.

      The second biggest lie i was ever told was to work smart not hard.

      bullshit. smart is endgame stuff. most of the time we dont try enough things out to be capable of developing smarts. we have mental theoretical constructs [more commonly known as mental masturbation] of success, women, riches, everything, but we make no hard and fast steps towards that.

      we’re a lazy generation [the 20 somethings] and each successive generation is getting even more lazier. technology has innoculated the mind from hard effort and striving in something noble. its much easier to jack off all day to kink.com and play gta V than to develop a craft, skill, business or go out and find pussy to fuck.

      its a sad state of affairs, we’ve exchanged our freedom ot thought and creativity for a no longer steady pay cheque, huge credit and luxury bullshit goods.

      hard work first. get used to it as the fucking default, then go crazy with smarts. most of the time when people say they’re working smart, they’re actually not working at all and just doing a bunch of pseudobullshit that doesnt help.

      protect and innoculate your mind from bullshit and force yourself to do some hard work in something noble with an endgame in mind.

    2. Nemo V October 25, 2013 at 11:34 pm

      Never would I think that my own brother posts about me! I do have an internship, in which i get paid $9 bucks an hour. Unlike how i’m described in this article, this year i’ve gained so many volunteer hours, as well as ties to the community. About my dad, though, is that he tends to be hypocritical. I’ve approached him several times in the past 3 years about job offers all over our area, but he shot me down because “It’s not for you”. I get called out on being lazy when my parents actually prevent me from being productive, citing my “safety” is a priority. Being boxed up is no way to live. The reason i’m on the web so often at home is because i dont want to hear a lecture of how if i’m not careful, i can end up in a street gang. Regarding my future: with my brothers help, i feel like no matter what path i choose i’ll be fine for the most part.

      Thanks for your suggestion!

      1. fearsometycoon October 30, 2013 at 8:02 am

        Sounds like you’re on your way to ending up in a street gang. j/k

  13. wargasm October 21, 2013 at 10:42 am

    As a recent college grad, I have seen what choices have lead to success for my peers and I with regard to college major and career choice.

    The majors that lead to gainful employment were engineering, finance, accounting, and supply chain management. Almost all other majors are either useless to job acquisition or require further education beyond a bachelors.

    As far as career choices go for college-educated men, the military and police are two good choices. You don’t need to necessarily be in a combat position in the military, and you will automatically start off as an officer with a good salary. You will also be hired preferentially as a veteran in any job you apply to after the military.

    Also don’t forget to take languages in college. Its one of the few things you’ll learn there that will stick with you, and it’ll be much easier to learn in college than afterwards on your own and in your limited free time.

  14. Pablo Martin Podhorzer October 21, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Or he could leave the country and go to a First World nation where he can study whatever his hearth desires and still find a job.

    1. Brave Jew World October 21, 2013 at 12:45 pm

      Telling Team AmeriKa to piss off doesn’t sound like that bad of an idea.

      He might as well live in France where he can get longer vacations and not have to deal with jack boot thug ‘Patriot’ Act Gestappo treatment.

      That’s what’s sick about the USSA- were socialist all but in name sans the corporate welfare and self protecting pemof legislative dung the corporations and their lobbyists create to have no competition as a their blue blood Fortune 1000 in feeding Illuminati crowd.

      Remember in Americastan-
      You can say your free just don’t act like you’re free.

      1. awakened October 21, 2013 at 11:16 pm

        The only problem is the countries you describe will never let a first world foreigner be included in the socialist system. Amerika is the only country on earth that allows that except amerika only allows third world turds to immigrate. An ameriikan simply can not move to switzerland and get a job and become swiss.

      2. Pablo Martin Podhorzer October 21, 2013 at 11:32 pm

        Not to Switzerland (a notorious difficult country to emigrate), but yes to others. Not to speak of the crazy opportunities Third World countries´ stockmarkets offer. This month the main electric company of Argentina tripled (TRIPLED) its stock value. The past month another energy company from here doubled it. Rinse and repeat.

        I have triple citizenship, so I really don´t think too much about “escaping” somewhere since I can go to lots of places just with a ticket.

      3. awakened October 23, 2013 at 1:11 am

        I think you are talking out of your ass a little bit. All European countries are very difficult for an American to emigrate to and become a citizen. Your example of France offers nothing over the USA. France is 100% NWO just in case you haven’t noticed. Tax rates in France exceeding 100% for upper income earners? You do read the news don’t you?

      4. Pablo Martin Podhorzer October 23, 2013 at 1:30 am

        Such luck that I am not an upper income earner then. Have you been to France? Outside certain suburbs, it is bourgeois paradise there. Every little thing is beautiful. I prefer Spain for the lifestyle (well, not right now), but France is an amazing country, where most of your needs are covered since the moment you are born, and then you are free to pursue other things outside of money, like, mmm, interests.

        NWO, what is that? Because if that is “New World Order”, well, the French are very nationalistic.

  15. Disabuse October 21, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    While college many not be a good value and provides far fewer income guarantees compared to a few decades ago… what is the alternative? Menial jobs are no more secure, and wasting a few years subsisting on low-end jobs with no career prospects won’t get one far either. We’re living in more uncertain times overall.

    Those menial jobs requiring your body and hands to be present are very likely to be automated within a few years. Taxi driver? Are you serious? Google already has a working prototype of a self-driving car, once it hits the market (within 10 years unless there are legal obstacles), that line of work is history. Other menial jobs like plumber or oil rig worker may hold on for some time due to less investment in automation (compared to driving), but they’re hardly a safe 40-50 year career choice (note that retirement ages will rise).

    Programming is still a fairly safe choice. Of course, you need some natural aptitude for it, which most people do not have. While you’re in competition with 3rd world freelancers, many of them are not particularly competent, have communication issues… and ultimately, due to global marketplace/demand, good ones are not all that cheap. In addition, there’s not much preventing an American programmer from moving to a place with lower cost of living to remain more competitive (abroad if need be).

  16. Sign It October 21, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    This is interesting-

    The system sucks, the prices the charge for group speak bureaucracy aka eduction is criminal, and we need a revolution to get the bankster crime syndicate of our backs.

    My suggestions-
    1) what’s the dudes birth sign? If your an Aries your probably in your face intense (make a good military guy or private security) a Gemini ( your smart charming intelligent good salesman, creative writer, etc) a Virgi (carig and smart- a social
    Worker, teacher, self help guru, psychologist, preacher), a Scorpio (methodically obsessively analytical- scientist, photographer) a Taurus (clever and charming- financial advisor, lawyer).

    1. anonymous October 21, 2013 at 4:19 pm

      Are you trying to run astrology game on the commenters here, brah?

      Or do you have a vagina yourself?

      1. Play It October 21, 2013 at 10:37 pm

        Not at All.

        Maybe your a repressed homo talking that kind of silliness. I’m a thinking man and I guarantee if I know someone’s sign I can predict their behavior.

        If you saw me in person you wouldn’t talk that nomsemse because I don’t think I know I’m in the upper echelon of physical skills. My good friend was ranked 4th in Miami kickboxing in his weight class and knows he couldn’t likely
        Take me.

        But your a hater and you don’t matter. Your a keyboard jockey. This pathetic garbage would never happen face to face. I know this.

      2. awakened October 21, 2013 at 11:10 pm

        Don’t talk shit about being a badass and then call someone a keyboard jockey. That makes you a keyboard jockey numnuts.

        Your badass “upper echelon” physical skills are easily negated with a hot slug of lead so chill the fuck out and read some astrology books between kickboxing death matches.

      3. Name callings for the playgrnd October 22, 2013 at 1:13 am

        What do you think I have with me Girl Scout cookies- yo don’t
        Have a monopoly on force jerk. Why you hating on Astrology on here anyway? I won’t respond further to a silly jerk like you. You aren’t worth the time-
        You were t hating on people’s ideas none
        Of this hate talk would be going on. Recognize and learn something your tone sounds
        Like your from a Alabama trailer park. Rednecks are morons who use terms like mum it’s so go watch some NASCAR and leave the thinking to the adults because name callig is for the playground.

      4. awakened October 23, 2013 at 1:03 am

        “yo don’t” is not coherent english. Neither is “hating on”. Your urban miami latin american english is disgusting. Remember English is still a first world language. I know it is far more complicated than your native tongue but try to learn the basics so you don’t sound so goddamn stupid.

        See you wednesday and try not to leave grass clipping on my driveway. Also tell the guys on your landscaping crew to quit trying to steal my stuff.

      5. g ron October 23, 2013 at 9:24 pm

        This is laughable on so many levels. My Cubans friends would laugh you out of Westchester.

        You know there are so many Latin millionaire businessmen here and on regular streets too-my friends mom, his brothers, the neighbors-all millionaires-all down to Earth-all loyal to each other and their friends, and la gente.

        Iv’e seen when gringos make it-most of them would sell out their own Mother or Kids to have it all. THe pride and racism of the gringo is why things like La Raza and Azatlan will take over this Country from you arrogant land grabbing theifs and liars.

        Personally, I don’t know how black men tolerate you-if I was black i’d make Malcom X look like a 1st Grader my hunger from your injustice would be so strong.

        As a Latin, me and my family have dealt with so many silly prejudice Gringos over the years. Me and all my cousins have at least busted the face and ground and pounded one evil, hating racist gringo a piece with all that sick racist crap they spew out. Most of you don’t have the courage to say racial slurs, those that do usually lose. Look at pro fighting boxing and MMA its all blacks and Latins with belts in almost every division, and you gringos sit around and worship NFL which is like a black athletes WHo’s Who. I guess you can always dream, huh?

        Another thing is you gringos are experiencing a sociological phenomenon right now-you work for the Elite global Khazars from Georgia between the Black and Caspian Sea who call themselves Jews and are really just Eastern Europe con men like the Rothschild Illuminati family, and youv’e lied and betrayted Asians, Latinos, Blacks, and even each other all on your arrogant, disgusting ego ride for selfish control.

        As a Latin man I and most of the World are sick of your selfish, evil tyranny.And taking God’s name in vain like you did is miserably sick. You need spiritual help and repentance.

        As far as lawn boy Latins-there are plenty of Mexicans in SoCal in places like Chino Hills who do that who are good, hard working family people, Iv’e been to the barrio there, and you and I both know you’d never talk that way to their face like that. If anything you’d probably have your lips quivering and secretly envy how they are more masculine than you are when you spoke to them. At least the Cubans would be nicer and just laugh at you for your ignorant hateful clown talk because they’d be busy day trading, writing an academic research paper, or running their successful office like so many of them do.

        I bet you hate black people too. Iv’e got several black friends and I know an ignorant, hating racist like you would never talk that lame gringo Brooks Brother, wearing, detestable “Nigger and Spic” crap to any of our faces. The truth is wer’e better athletes, come from beautiful, sunny places, are loyal to our people, and mind our own business. You gringos should take a clue- we have the beaches, women, and culture all the gringos come to if not abroad in Latin America or Europe than to Miami, Vegas, So Cal, and Texas. You gringos deceitful ways wont last forever. Your population is shrinking while we grow. I’m here to communicate and learn. I hope you’ll learn to genuinely respect and appreciate other cultures instead of spew ethnic slurs out of hatred.

  17. GrammerNazi October 21, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    What the? Did you outsource this post or something?

    There are like 5-6 grammatical errors. I don’t even think the first paragraph makes any sense at all.

    1. Morrison December 20, 2015 at 6:35 am

      “There are like 5-6 grammatical errors. I don’t even think the first paragraph makes any sense at all.”

      That’s because you’re a retard pretending to know you’re talking about.

  18. Tron October 21, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    I was a junior when the recession hit. It single handedly destroyed my dads job in the housing business. Now due to that and his poor financial decisions, hes living in a small condo with barely enough to get by. This scared the shit out of me. There were no jobs in my town and I was starting to realize that college was a dumb idea especially since I didnt know what I wanted out of life. I joined the air force and its probably the best choice I could have made. I am doing a lot better off than my peers and the money im saving from each check will help me when I decide to get out and figure out what my next route is.

    1. anonymous October 21, 2013 at 4:18 pm

      You were a junior in high school or a junior in college?

      If college, then I hope you completed the college degree. By that point, one more year of study and another $10,000 in loans is worth it to complete a degree so you can qualify for all sorts of positions (military or civilian) that give you credit for the piece of paper.

      1. Tron October 22, 2013 at 12:10 am

        high school

  19. To Little Brother October 21, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    The college game is such a rip off. It’s Expensive Orwellian indoctrination for wage slave Alavert at best.

    The best game
    Going is an MBA or finance degree from Harvard Vanderbilt
    Stanford Wharton etc. honestly it would be worth it to sit on your butt fir a year or two and get a through the roof ACT and GMAT score to go somewhere like that as opposed to roting in mediocrity at State U. The contacts from upper echelon schools alone could establish you and since you guys are Middle Eastern play the race card too man.

    My advice to little man on the hippie track is-
    1- maybe work for a cruise line or International Airline to travel and see and meet new kinds of people.

    2- do a service oriented field in an exotic place like the Peace corp or a missionary or charity organization abroad.

    3- if there’s a subcture he digs (trance music, indie rock, progressive metal, etc.) go and work in an artsy bohemian place like Portland,Or Seattle, Wa (for prog rock) Greenwich Village NYC (for indie rock) Berlin or London (for electronic dance music), Etc. I’m a musician so hanging in he prog rock environment wod serve me well as a guitarist of 16 years.
    As much as he digs computers he should get some
    logic X or Reason and make some cool Pa Van Dyk trance
    Or G Unit rap if he can’t at play an instrument.

    4) hobo around Europe and couch surf and that other site where farmers in Wine country will let you work on their farm for room and board. How cool would that be in the majestic mountains of Northern Italy or the coastal beauty of Southern Greece?

    5-he shod pick a language, culture, country, or city he just really digs and do all be can go immerse himself in it. If he could get student loans or grants and go to college and Europe (Poznan- beautiful Slavic girl land) and learn about a new culture and be educated very well. I know a consultant who has a bachelors from Austria who makes way more than most Americans. He works in trusts and asset protection though.

    6- if he loves nature he shod get a job centered around that. Ill never forget my time in Newport Beach, CA where I saw a guy who was a life guard late 30s ripped abs and a brown hair version of Spiccoli from Fast Times in Ridgemont High. The guy was happy to be alive, funny, relaxed, and his morning office situation was watching retires and tourists walk around on a balmy Pacific Beach. Think about how miserae and I creative most peoe are in Suburand USA by that age.

    My point you g dude-
    Seize the day. Follow your heart. You’ve got years to get brought that gray boring mind control maze that leads to suburban mediocrity called college. Go travel and see far lands. Forget about slumming it in suburbia at the price of your self worth. It took your brother and me tears to figure this out.

    Ps- if you can save up 100k and sale
    You could make more money installing flooring Kr doing kitchen renovations with your crew than most peoe who sit half a decade rotting in a class room to spen four decades
    Wasting in an office. Live while you can your body is on your side right now.’screw the mass consensus as lit as bureaucrat colleges exist off of federal loans you could always get loaned up and go to school and can he your head high by adventuring and exploring right now as opposed to havig debt and job conformity at just he young age of 22 or 23 like most grads.

    1. Roosh_V October 21, 2013 at 1:24 pm

      Great advice for young men.

      1. Blessings To Little Brother October 21, 2013 at 3:22 pm

        I’ve lived it brother. I only wish younger guys haven’t felt the agony I have in my life. I hope he doesnt suffer like i have so inhope he will apply my advice. My next advice go to mass this Sunday. God is good. Those Latin and European gis are good women because the Carholic and Orthodox Church taught them to love God their famy and their fellow man. Peace be with you.

      2. Blessings to Little Brother October 21, 2013 at 3:28 pm

        I’ve seen what Feminist Americans do vs. other women
        My feni ask mom left
        My family after she ran through millions my Dad earned while my Carholic Brazilian grandma- my Dads mom bakes me muffins, prays for and with me every day, and wod take a bullet for us and I would her. Loyalty instilled by a love of God is priceless. Spoed materialist godless feminists are a living nightmare when they turn on you. My Catholic Brazillian grandma is an angel. This is a micro study of gringo feminist versus old school raised women when they age too. Woe to the Zionist monsters who created Communism and feminism.

    2. Jeb October 21, 2013 at 2:30 pm

      Amen, brother. There are ways to survive, if you put your mind and energy into it. As a “useless” bohemian type, I parlayed my literature and philosophy BA into freelance technical writing, which has enabled me to travel, live abroad, and pursue my art. No society-sanctioned accoutrements such as ladder-climbing career, big house, expensive car, kids, etc., but rather well-paying work without office politics, great digs all over Europe and Asia, and very fine friends. Young guys, your youth is fleeting. That vast gray mediocrity of office and suburbia is deadly, and usually inescapable. Put down your gadgets and games and go get your lives.

    3. The Quiet Rebel October 22, 2013 at 9:21 am

      Most young men go to college because they are worried about what the parents and rest of society will think of them if they do not go, and this whole “you gotta go to college” advocation is like a mental illness; nobody wants to admit that times have drastically changed in America. Lets also add in the idea that some guys are reluctant to take a profession that does not have the prestige that helps in getting them laid. Lets face it, when a skag asks a man what he does for a living, she’s interested in getting an idea of his income, as well as status. So being a carpenter or plumber may not fulfill the status requirement for today’s hormonal driven animal. The way around that is simply tell the chick you do not have a job because you recently just got out of prison. That will get her wet between the legs.

      1. anon1 October 24, 2013 at 2:03 pm

        i agree with bonecrckers theory that the only women that get wet by criminality, are A) fucked up slaggy women in the first place [may look hot, but mentally damaged/broken home] .
        B) in love with the romanticised idea of a badboy than the real life wifebeating, fuck’n’leave mentality.

    4. Pablo Martin Podhorzer October 22, 2013 at 4:07 pm

      Salamanca all the way. It is a center of the Erasmus (“orgasmus”) party scene.

    5. sensible senior March 16, 2014 at 3:54 pm

      MBA salaries are going down. You also need commensurate work experience or you are going to start at the BOTTOM in high paying but very unstable jobs.

      I have friends at HBS, GSB, LBS. The ones who did the best were the ones who:

      a) Go to a TOP undergrad
      b) Work for a great firm (industry is irrelevant)
      c) Work for 5 years solid (no company change, only promotion)

      THEN go to Business School.

      The kids who did 2-3 years of work experience even if it is GS/McK can only find themselves moving up ONE level. Which they could’ve done without the MBA by just staying at work.

      Please do not recommend MBAs. Going for a degree that puts you $150,000 in the hole, then forces you to take a job in banking/consulting to pay back those debts is stupid. I have friends at the top MBB firms, top ibanks, the real story is MOST leave after 2-3 years and have to trade down significantly or do something less well paying purely because NO ONE else will pay you six figures with two years of education. You are running a serious risk doing an MBA even at a top school and if the market crashes again you are completely screwed!

      Sensible advice would be to focus explicitly on hard skills:

      1) Programming – pick up several languages, build real stuff online, create a portfolio

      2) Blog – write and do it consistently

      3) Design – focus on digital, find a way to bootleg Photoshop and the adobe suit and start to practice early on

      4) Sales – figure out a way to build up a track record in sales. Work in a job, start a business etc do something

      5) Public Speaking – join toastmasters or a stand up comedy course. Go through the entire series will take you 2 years absolute max!

      6) Mathematics – Focus on an applied area such as finance for personal and professional reasons.

      Also, in this day and age, contacts cost $0.00 to make. If you want to make contacts even if you are in “bum fuck nowhere” you use linkedin you use twitter you learn how to contact and reach out to people online then get the conversation offline. OFFER value first then ask for help second. Always remember this.

      Then you need to figure out who your biggest nodes (Contacts with large contacts) are and keep this relationship warm and strategically ask for help while continuing to add value!

      I can actually point you in the right direction for help so message me

  20. Atlanta Man October 21, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Make sure he does not go to law school unless he gets into a top ten program or be ready for life to really suck.

    1. AmeriKastan=Gestappoville October 21, 2013 at 3:17 pm

      Lawyers suck. Thu have the personality of a box of used dildos and torment productive people with endless bureaucratic hassles via the Americastan government courts.

      How about if hose son of a bitches invented a computer chip, a bio product, or even a better way to shop or drink coffee (Amazon or Starbucks or Costco) instead of being the fecal matter they mostly are as a group.

      One of my
      Favorite sayings-
      One useless man is a disgrace
      Two useless men are a law firm
      And three or more useless men are some form of legislative body ( state or the kings of being wortess turds Amuricastans Congress on Crapitol Hill)

      1. gaoxiaen November 26, 2013 at 9:03 pm

        They suck until you need one to stay out of prison.

  21. BA October 21, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    The trades are looking better & better. If I was starting over, I’d go for HVAC. Take a local training course and hire out as a technician. It will suck at first but you’ll be learning a lot while getting paid. Try to get into the commercial side of it. After you get good & get all the proper licenses, you can do side work for residential customers. Then you can start your own A/C company or buy out a retiring guy’s company. Lots of money there but lots of risk too. Alternatively, you can start doing construction inspection/management. Easy work that takes advantage of your expertise CM firms typically pay pretty well and if you’re good, they’ll keep you on for various projects.

    I’ve a buddy that’s been doing HVAC for decades and he’s really good. He works on the side most weekends for additional cash and has a 40 hour a week gig that pays well and has full benefits.

    And regardless of the economy, people always find a way to keep the A/C and heater repaired.

    1. Fearless October 21, 2013 at 5:07 pm

      I agree with the (skilled) trades completly. Big money to be made out west in the tar sands if you can survive out there for a yr. Downsides are rampant crime, long hours, dangerous work, etc… Upsides are $80,000 as a journeyman steamfitter.

  22. Lemon October 21, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Great article. I love the focus on advising young men.

    I care more about that than advice how to chase pussy, although yes they are linked in many ways.

    I have a 12 year old son. I am definitely worried about the world he’ll encounter.

  23. Sean October 21, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    Best to just get a STEM degree or an economics degree. Either degree translates to a lot of well paying career choices, but includes a ton of math classes that can translate into any corporate career with 6 months of traini

    1. G Ron October 21, 2013 at 10:47 pm

      Spot on follow the money man. This is good advice. I’ve know. Mathematicians who have lucrative corporate jobs. But corporate work- its kinda like selli g your soul isn’t it?

  24. Matt October 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    If he wants to go to college, the first thing he should do is start knocking out CLEP & DANTES/DSST tests. He should be able to start school with 60-90 hours of credit.

    1. anonymous October 21, 2013 at 4:14 pm

      Not so quick, buddy.

      Many universities will not grant credit for CLEP and DSST exams. Before investing a lot of time and effort, you’d have to check the college catalogs for the schools you’re interested in, and see what sort of benefit you’ll receive (credit, course substitution, complete a pre-req, etc).

      1. anonymous October 21, 2013 at 4:16 pm

        Also, a much better route would be to take Advanced Placement examinations in multiple subjects. Universities (especially public schools) are much more willing to grant both credit AND course substitution for a score of 4 or 5 on an AP test.

        And you can take the AP test even when you’re not in high school, like say, during a gap year.

  25. Dan Lavatan October 21, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    A lot of the construction jobs face wage pressure from immigrant labor. It is also possible driving jobs will be replaced by technology over the next few years.
    Relatively few tech jobs go to crowdsource sites since the quality isn’t there. Still, it is possible to earn a living wage even at foreign prices and comes out OK if you are comparing it to construction. Any technology can become obsolete, in which case you learn the next technology. Many of the early blackberry developers are now among the better android developers. If your job gets outsourced you just get another job as long as some firms are hiring.

  26. Quintus Curtius October 21, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    If I were advising him, I would encourage him to seek a career that (1) he can use to work abroad, and (2) is technical in nature and can be used anywhere in the world, like engineering, hotel management, mining, desalinization, medical services, etc.
    It is critical to be able to get overseas experience and try to get some employer to pay for it.
    Then try to start your own business.

  27. splooge October 21, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    during the 2008 recession, trades work was the first to go. And all those guys that studied hard to get in that field couldn’t find work, even from BCIT. Thats why I wanted to get a degree in business cause at least I can use that degree to teach English in japan then come back and get some office job in a bank. I am currently taking a break but will going back soon.

  28. Buddy Orion October 21, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Hey Roosh, I am doing a statistics project on graduate degrees vs. post university financial success. Would you happen to know of any links that back it up?

  29. John McNeill October 21, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    You are a good brother, Roosh.

  30. play nice October 21, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    really, is anything such as “good advice”?

  31. MarkCWinters October 21, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    I’m trying to imagine what it’s like to have Roosh V as an older brother.

  32. beta_plus October 21, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    Is programming really that bad? I do that and get paid pretty well. I’m just stupid enough to live in DC. It seems like 85% of my engineering friends (including a guy who got a Masters in Mechanical Engineering from Berkeley) ended up programming web applications in the US and Canada.

    1. Gabriel October 22, 2013 at 1:16 pm

      Programming is great when you are young.

      You start earning more than your friends that did or are doing traditional careers, even if you just have a High School Diploma and little training.
      In fact after 3 or 4 years you will be earning way more than your friends.

      But after that you won´t earn much more than you were previously earning and 10-15 years later your friends will be established with decent careers and earning way more money than you, and you will have turned a disposable guy, with no business contacts and a pretty childish idea of the world (because how much do you believe you are going to grow-up if you spend most of your day in front of a PC solving logic problems for someone else?)

      If you start programming you better have and exit strategy to use when you are past your middle thirties.

      1. Ron October 22, 2013 at 7:45 pm

        Unless he’s a hardcore aspie, and sits on his ass after graduating with a Comp Sci degree, he’ll do fine. Programming gets you in the door, you work your way up from there. If you have a shred of people skills and business acumen/ambition it puts you ahead of 99% of the aspies in the field.

        I have at least a dozen friends who started out as “code grunts” doing shit for Deloitte, IBM, etc but then worked into managerial gigs at other small-medium companies (using the name on their resume to get in the door) where they have more work-life balance, or have gone the Tropical MBA route and start their own businesses and use overseas labor to get shit done.

        Guys that have hands-on experience in construction are much better real estate investors because they can control the contractors and not get dicked over (common for the corporate types that try to flip houses and get raped by the people they hire). It’s the same thing – a technology entrepreneur with coding background is going to be more effective much more often because he can manage the guys he hires.

      2. Gabriel October 24, 2013 at 8:44 am

        The problem is being a software project manager at a small/middle company is almost the same as being some glorified task administrator for a bunch of nerds.

        If you have the social skills, the ambition to cling into the corporate ladder and are decided to put the effort to get an MBA, the are better career paths than programming to follow. Not saying the one you said does not work, but you can get more from the same amount of effort just by following other career paths.

  33. Harold October 21, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    Construction may not be a great idea. All over the western world the governments are letting third world immigrants take the jobs of blue collar workers. They don’t have a clue how to do the job and are anoying as fuck to work with. A Plumber would be the exception though. Even if there is no new houses being built there is still a demand for them. Existing homes still need their toilets fixed and pipes unblocked.

  34. Senior Beta October 21, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    Good advice Roosh. A kid who works in construction or the trades for a year or so will make him appreciate the easier student life. And make him focus.
    The commentators with advice for him to explore a military option are right on. No need to volunteer for combat. Air Force or Navy would give a kid travel opportunities, teach him a skill (i.e. Danny from 504 a Navy Corpsman), give him travel/foreign language opportunities, and solve the college finance problem.
    Keep up the good mentoring work.

  35. Fuck ABC News October 22, 2013 at 12:39 am

    This article is no different than something by a romantic traditionalist. “Oh no, your life will be shit if you don’t find a career!” That’s something women want men to believe. I have a younger brother, I only care that he holds onto his individuality. I don’t have time to attack my family for their life choices, all of society awaits, and deserves the venom more.

    1. TheOverwatch October 22, 2013 at 9:32 am

      I hope he can eat his “individuality”.

  36. Cove Pontin October 22, 2013 at 1:44 am


    ^ i’m sure you know the captain and his work. honestly if he wants to know what its like to work hard and make money send him up to the oil fields. i’s say no to the military unless he can pass the ASVAB in the 70’s or better and get a non combat job. (there is a really good chance bad shits coming down the pipe, Putin stopped the last fuck cluster, thank god.)

    I’m not sure where you are but pretty much no matter where you are the is a demand for good welders, and you can make seriously good money.

  37. Abe October 22, 2013 at 2:15 am

    Many jobs that survived being “internetized” will not survive the coming robot economy. I’m about to become a dentist. 200K+, less than 40 hrs a wk, meet and help lots of people, work with plenty of women, no boss, lots of potential, play with toys (laser, microscope, drills), plenty of elective/cosmetic/no-insurance procedures, work with your hands, flexible hours.. I could go on but you get the gist. It’s worth checking out. More challenging than you may expect though.

  38. j October 22, 2013 at 4:15 am

    Don’t go into medicine. I’m a surgeon and this job is pure slavery.

    1. B October 23, 2013 at 3:37 am

      Hah, that’s exactly why I switched from biology to international business. Slave away in the hospital on-call constantly, repairing people’s bodies who are convinced “God” guided my scalpel. Fuck that noise. Best decision I ever made. I became a wine broker and I travel constantly from D.C. to France, spending weeks or months at a time in Alsace, Bordeaux, and all the other popular wine regions, but I get to partake in the sweet rural French poon all year round.

      Keep those 60-80 hour work weeks in a MRSA-infested environment, my friend.

  39. Braydon October 22, 2013 at 4:51 am

    Have him look into petroleum engineering.. I am currently a junior in our program and have a few buddies who have started out making 90k+ per year fresh out of college while working on rotation (month on, month off). About five years down the line they’ll be pulling >150k per year easily.

    With the recent shale BOOM (Utica, Marcellus, Eagle Ford, South Texas, etc.) in addition to the ongoing retiree wave, these oil and gas companies are having a hard time finding enough qualified candidates (STEM majors) to hire. In an age of social media domination, it may not be the sexiest job but you can’t beat the pay/work schedule. While on the rigs you will work hard, often 12hr days, 7 days per week. That said, getting a month off to travel around with a fat check in your pocket makes it well worth it. Even though in HS I thought of math/science kids as “nerdy”, I’ve turned out to really enjoy our curriculum. If he has an aptitude for STEM in general, a knack for problem solving, and doesn’t mind getting dirty in the field, he should look into this goldmine.

    Even if we perfected fuel cell technology tomorrow, the oil and gas industry isn’t going away anytime soon. We use petroleum and natural gas for everything and there will always be a need in our lifetime.

    This is cheesy but have your bro check this out..


    1. Braydon October 22, 2013 at 4:58 am

      One more thing.. Every one of graduates last year had jobs secured before they received their diploma (with the exception of those who opted for grad school)

  40. Ocean October 22, 2013 at 6:05 am

    *Join the army and learn a trade, and pray there is no Afghanistan or Iraq like war again until after you seek an honorable discharge, or;
    *Work out, get a tan, and fuck women for a living–yes, become a gigolo, or;
    *Become a Tea Party activist, leading to a job as a Fox News contributor.

    1. Toads November 11, 2013 at 9:59 pm

      As Roosh (and thus his brother) are Iranian, that is not a good idea.

  41. TheOverwatch October 22, 2013 at 9:45 am

    I’m hesitant to tell high-schoolers I meet at the gym or who hang with my brother, to go into STEM majors. I was a Mathematics major with a “minor” in Computer Science. STEM majors, even at my middle of the pack public university(UConn), are very challenging. Unless these students actually ENJOYED Math and Science in high school, then they will struggle in STEM majors. Not impossible, just very difficult.

    I can’t even think of how many late nights I spent in the library studying Analysis. If you don’t like Math and Science, studying Engineering will be like torture. While I agree STEM, Economics, and Finance majors are probably the only majors worth pursuing in this economy, let’s be honest, most fresh out of high school students don’t have the work ethic, or discipline to make it through those programs.

    1. Jeb October 22, 2013 at 7:38 pm

      I agree with you fully. STEM majors require active interest, sustained effort, intense drive, and a certain level of intelligence that most people, especially high-school kids, don’t have. In addition, many engineering BS programs require five, not four, years to complete. It’s lucrative but not for everyone.

      1. Jeb October 22, 2013 at 7:57 pm

        Correction: should read ” … a certain level and TYPE of intelligence …” Ol’ Beethoven, though a musical genius, might have had trouble designing the space shuttle.

  42. Harland October 22, 2013 at 9:51 am

    If you want to live abroad, get a degree. There are very few countries that will issue a work visa without a degree. All the worthwhile countries require it. High school diplomas will be imprisoned in America for the rest of their natural lives.

    1. Ulick McGee October 23, 2013 at 1:22 am

      Use a 3D printer and print one.

  43. soup October 22, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    Actually, just because a job has survived through internet times so far doesn’t mean it is safe.

    As 3D printing takes off, many physical manufacturing and labor jobs will be lost. Houses will be printed by machines, forks and everyday objects won’t need to be manufactured- you will be able to download a design and print it off your desktop 3d printer.

    1. Pablo Martin Podhorzer October 22, 2013 at 4:13 pm

      We have already a big 3D printer. It is called “China”.

    2. Ulick McGee October 23, 2013 at 1:17 am

      It will be 10 years before household 3D printing is viable and 20 years before it is mainstream.

      1. Toads November 11, 2013 at 10:01 pm

        10 years from now means his brother will be 27 – hardly an old enough age at which to see a career removed by technology.

  44. Armchair General October 22, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    In his place i would rather find a job to do. He may find 1000 ways to make a living by making connections and being close to people who may employ him or teach him skills, if he already is not certain about his future through college.

  45. Takeshi Young October 22, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    I’d recommend your dad take a look at these links:


    Your brother is fortunate enough to have someone like you who is an experienced internet entrepreneur as a mentor. You should teach him the skills that you know– website creation, SEO, social media marketing, product creation, e-mail list management, etc.

    Even if your brother doesn’t end up becoming an independent businessman like yourself, I can tell you as someone in the internet marketing space that there is currently more demand for skilled search and social media marketers than there are qualified applicants. If your brother can gain real world experience under you, he could easily get a job even without a college degree.

    1. anon1 October 24, 2013 at 2:07 pm

      +1 for altucher, dude [in business] is a fucking animal. very blue pill in other aspects of his life, but his business and success mindset and achievements definitely make him a worthy read

  46. Architekt October 23, 2013 at 3:20 am

    Sounds like an incredibly familiar story. Makes me wish I had an uncle Roosh guiding me

  47. Kerem Balkır October 23, 2013 at 6:06 am

    “but it’s not 1997 anymore. There’s no more room for loafers to succeed”

    there wasn’t any room to begin with.

  48. eli October 23, 2013 at 7:06 am

    I would go into farming. There is literally no one who says they want to go into farming and most farmers are in their 60’s. Agricultural prices are quite high and should remain so given population growth and biofuel strategies. Farmland and farming will be good businesses over the next 20-25 years. Getting an MBA or going to law school is a crowded trade. Now everyone who doesn’t know what to do in life pursues one of those, takes on huge debt, and has to compete with a lot of likeminded people for work. There is a reason the CEO of Nestle has personally bought huge swaths of farmland in Africa and why wealthy Americans have purchased water rights and land in latin America. Farming will be a good spot in the future.

  49. eli October 23, 2013 at 7:20 am

    The German model is so much better for young people than the North American model that encourages people to take on huge debt for education. Germany allows people at a young age to move either towards university path or trade at around 16. If you pursue a trade, you learn a real tangible skill with a career opportunity. Furthermore, you haven’t closed the door on university as you can still return to an engineering or other path if you choose. its much better for young people and doesn’t force an “all-in” choice before they have any idea what to do.

  50. Invisible Throne October 23, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    I just completed a certificate program to teach english as a second language overseas. Although the real money is in the Gulf countries, they want teachers with 2-3 years experience, so I will have to pay my dues and teach in Asia/Southeast Asia for a while. Not a bad deal, in my opinion. I messed up and got a useless joint masters/law degree, thinking I was going to be a big time international lawyer for the World Bank or some ridiculous shit. (…but wait, it gets better. My law school was third tier, and I never passed the bar! Ha) I was delusional. Reality kicked me in face and knocked all my teeth out! My student loans are in the six figures, I have no credit, and collection agencies have put out a hit on me. I’m leaving the country. We make our choices and deal with the consequences. I consider myself luckier than others (no baby mamas, no ex-wives, no std’s.) I am a piss-broke free man with a passport! Expat lifestyle, here I come!

  51. YeahYeah October 25, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    After going through grad school and “corporate America” and all that BS I’ve come to realize that the only credited job is working for yourself. It doesn’t matter if your a plumber or hostel owner or lawyer or dentist, working for yourself is the only credited path because it’s the only way you can guarantee that some fuckturd Boss won’t ruin your life overnight. It is the only way you can really be confident you’ll never be a slave to someone else’s decisions and that there always is income out there for you somewhere.

  52. Raul Felix October 26, 2013 at 8:23 am

    Yeah it is tough. I was confused about what I wanted to do after high school and it’s one of the reasons I joined the Army. Do something that gets you out the parents house, making okay money, and gets you an education paid for. I hope your brother figures something out man.

  53. AnonInDC October 27, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Subsidize his attendance at one of Maryland’s excellent community colleges, Montgomery College is good, so is CCBC, I don’t know about the others. Two years will be enough to knock out the first two years of any degree, plus all the gen-ed requirements, and will allow him to transfer to a four-year school in MD for his junior and senior years with no application requirement, provided his GPA beats like a 2.5 It’s basically free, so he ends up paying $20k + fuck all for a degree.

    Don’t put him to work, charge him rent, or otherwise force him to hustle, this is the time when his brain is growing, he needs to read, talk to people, learn about the world, learn game, and get sick of xbox on his own. Parents of successful people do not ‘force’ them to hustle for pennies when they are young? They set them up to succeed at every point, and when they fall down, they pick them back up.

  54. Nick November 4, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    My recommendation would be to go to a JC and transfer after 2 years to a 4-year university. By this time he’d have a clearer idea of what he wants to do without the huge debt. Honestly I learned very little in college. Practical, on-the-job experience has been infinitely more valuable.

    My brother is 24 and still lives at home after completing a Film degree 2 years ago. He doesn’t have a clear idea of what he wants to do, and I think the distraction inherent in this generation that you described is in full effect. Unfortunately I think this is just going to become more of a trend, as it is in Europe, where kids live with their parents until their 30’s or later, never reaching their full potential because they are comfortable and content with socializing and entertainment.

  55. Westsider November 6, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    29-year old homeowner with zero debt here telling Nemo V (roosh’s brother?) to either – if he wants to avoid the debt-risk downside of a higher education, 1) get a job in the western N.D./northwest S.D./west TX/south TX oilfields, and SAVE the resulting windfall income to use as a platform from which to make a resource-independent decision regarding what he wants to do with the rest of his life, or 2) if he doesn’t mind the debt risk, go to UMD-College Park or UVa, and major in whatever field of engineering he finds most interesting.

    If he graduates with at least a 3.5 GPA, he will find a job, and as long as he picked the right field, not hate it.

  56. yolo November 10, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    I am a programmer who works in silicon valley. While it is true that there are a ‘million kids’ making apps and websites right now, there is still a massive shortage of software engineers. Your brother doesn’t have to be the best programmer out there. He just needs to be able to program and he will find a high paying job very easily after graduation. To understand how important software will be in the future, google for this wall st journal article: “Software is eating the world.” Every industry is being disrupted by software and those that can write software are the disruptors who would come out on top of the food chain. Kids graduating from colleges as software engineers are making $150k a yr here in the valley.

    While it is true that small employers like yourself turn to elance, big companies still require people in the US to be present at work daily. Such US programmers often lead virtual teams in foreign countries from the US. It is the ultimate arbitrage.

    Push your brother to program and major in software engineering. You would have done him a big favour.

  57. Toads November 11, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    Just teach him to be a PUA like you (I am sure you wished you found Game many years sooner than you did). Then you can jointly form a huge empire of PUA/Travel content.

    Get your brother up to your *present* skill level by the time he is 21, and then that is great.

  58. Golden Dollar November 14, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Ayn Rand has the best advice for this sort of thing. Ask your brother what he was fascinated by at nine or 10 years old (basically, when he knew as much about himself as he would before he started getting distracted by women). That is where he should focus his career.

  59. Gabriel December 18, 2015 at 2:12 pm

    Unfortunately, everybody has to make his own mistakes in life. It doesn’t matter how helpless the situation may seem to you, but there is no way around this.
    First of all, your brother is only seventeen and, in practice, he is still a child.
    As you said in your post, he has been given everything on a silver platter up until now by your dad, so this feels natural and right to him. In this regard, the real problem—to my understanding—lies in the basis of parenthood. Parents don’t make their children work for what they have nowadays. Instead, they just hand expensive toys that the kids take for granted in exchange of some free time at home from work.

    The logic goes if kids are busy playing videogames with their friends they will be distracted and, thus, will give their parents no trouble and little to worry about altogether. However, if kids had to put a real effort into earning their valuables they would appreciate life more and would acquire a more realistic sense of morality, values and dignity.

    Consider this case. My father grew up during the Spanish post-war and became an orphan at age sixteen. The whole country was in ruins. He explains to me that at the time every kid had to help with daily chores and had to work long hours during summer to help support the household. There was no such
    thing as free lunch at the time, but society, including parents and their own children could tell apart right from wrong.

    In other words, there seems to be a natural and strong sense of duty wherever there is a sense of loss and one has to fight with the purpose of becoming an achiever. Moreover, in my opinion, there is an overall connection between having to work long hours, which in turn builds a strong work-ethic, in order to purchase goods AND being fully accountable for one’s choices.

    Here is an example. When I was fourteen years old I was going through a pretty hard phase of hormonal upheaval, which resulted in depression and poor socializing at school and bullying. However, this experience turned out for the
    best. It was a key factor to me in integrating a new skill that I was not familiar with. There was a sense of loss in my life and, therefore, I found and cherished a new way to make it up to myself. I got interested in learning foreign languages as a mechanism of compensation for a loss I was experiencing.

    At age fourteen I would flunk English every term and so my mother came to my
    rescue and had a private tutor come by to teach me English. I developed a passion for something that I did not have at the time as a result. That is to say, there was something –a hard but meaningful experience—which made me focus and fight for something with renewed interest.

    Nobody is born with a passion for programming or becoming a civil engineer. At least, I don’t think so. These are professions for which you develop a passion through hard work, dedication and perseverance. Your kid brother has to have something meaningful to him to work hard for. He needs to find his own source of motivation. Motivation remains a key factor for one to envision life as a meaningful experience worth fighting for.