This is a great little book. I read it a while back, trying to understand suffering from an Orthodox Christian perspective. St. John Chrysostom talked about suffering a lot. On Wealth and Poverty and On the Providence of God were very helpful in that regard.

I've found it hard to switch to the Orthodox view on suffering, as opposed to the modern idea that suffering is bad and should be avoided at all costs. The modern viewpoint seems to be in the air we breathe from infancy, reinforced by our easy, comfortable, convenient lifestyles.

Suffering seems wrong and unfair when the point of life nowadays is to have the easiest and most fun life possible. It's another example of everything being upside down in this sinful world. It's probably also the reason we whine and complain so much when we have it easier than the vast majority of people who have ever lived.

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The Lord chastises whom he loves. We are built to improve our lives and the lives of others, as is natural, but we go too far with this and forget about God - it seems to me as a matter of fact and principle of life - in cycles. The hardest part I think is that it seems so needless, to be quite honest, but greater introspection will show that if it weren't this thing, you'd be complaining about another. And if not, perhaps as Fr. Peter says, your conversion or something to make you think about becoming more holy wouldn't be there.

I'm critical of the modern day and the clown world we live in. If we have hope in the Lord and in eternal life, which is surely greater than anything we've experienced by magnitudes in its glory, does not this defeat having the silly hope of "being born at the right time"? I must say it does. At least we have this gift of faith and hope, however much we complain - the Lord can work with it.

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I've found it hard to switch to the Orthodox view on suffering, as opposed to the modern idea that suffering is bad and should be avoided at all costs.

Suffering seems wrong and unfair when the point of life nowadays is to have the easiest and most fun life possible. It's another example of everything being upside down in this sinful world. It's probably also the reason we whine and complain so much when we have it easier than the vast majority of people who have ever lived.

I find that hard as well. Meaning in pain and suffering, which is completely opposite to the hedonistic life I lived.
I know this is truth but it's hard to grasp for me. It seems to be one of the main mysteries for me.

But it is true, the most interesting people I know went through great suffering. Many of the saints went through great suffering. Somehow it seems that suffering is the mirror that shows what we are at that moment.

And on the last sentence:

It's probably also the reason we whine and complain so much when we have it easier than the vast majority of people who have ever lived.

I don't agree, I know the elites keep telling us: Be happy! You know kids in Africa are living of 1 dollar a month. Your grand-grandparents had hunger in the winter of 19xx, don't whine!

But the complaining and whining I hear of people is mostly of a soul crushed level. When people complain all the time, even if it's on the weather, it's because they are suffering. Many who complain have material wealth, but material wealth doesn't bring salvation.. so what then? This whining is a form of desperation.

The people who are whining and complaining are receiving a gift of grace. Suffering, while having everything. What is there more then Lord? Why am I not happy? I have a house, a car, food, health. Why? Why do I feel so empty? What is there more?

I think whining and complaining is the seed.

In modernism we should act happy, no whine, not complain, you have everything goy! Quit whining.

I think thats false. I think we have less, far less. The amount of broken marriages, child murder in the womb, prostitution, the constant preaching of sin, the sense of feeling lost, the desperation with how the richest fly to yoga and other cultish behaviors, the self help books, many are desperate.

I think there is a true emptiness in the heart that's behind the seemingly insignificant whining of many which Christ longs to fill.

I have had it quite some times, when I ask a person who is whining: "What's up? You don't seem in a good space." That it's the start of a meaningful and good conversation.

And the other way around. I experienced it, which is beautiful. Being seen as a human in your suffering.

The environments that keep repeating how good we have it, that we should be thankful.

I feel that that has been misrepresented a lot. To thankful when we feel good and when we have worldly pleasure.

How about feeling thankful for suffering? Thankful for His love for us? Having faith that he will give exactly what we need, even when we don't see the meaning of it.

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I find that hard as well. Meaning in pain and suffering, which is completely opposite to the hedonistic life I lived.
I know this is truth but it's hard to grasp for me. It seems to be one of the main mysteries for me.

But it is true, the most interesting people I know went through great suffering. Many of the saints went through great suffering. Somehow it seems that suffering is the mirror that shows what we are at that moment.

And on the last sentence:

I don't agree, I know the elites keep telling us: Be happy! You know kids in Africa are living of 1 dollar a month. Your grand-grandparents had hunger in the winter of 19xx, don't whine!

But the complaining and whining I hear of people is mostly of a soul crushed level. When people complain all the time, even if it's on the weather, it's because they are suffering. Many who complain have material wealth, but material wealth doesn't bring salvation.. so what then? This whining is a form of desperation.

The people who are whining and complaining are receiving a gift of grace. Suffering, while having everything. What is there more then Lord? Why am I not happy? I have a house, a car, food, health. Why? Why do I feel so empty? What is there more?

I think whining and complaining is the seed.

In modernism we should act happy, no whine, not complain, you have everything goy! Quit whining.

I think thats false. I think we have less, far less. The amount of broken marriages, child murder in the womb, prostitution, the constant preaching of sin, the sense of feeling lost, the desperation with how the richest fly to yoga and other cultish behaviors, the self help books, many are desperate.

I think there is a true emptiness in the heart that's behind the seemingly insignificant whining of many which Christ longs to fill.

I have had it quite some times, when I ask a person who is whining: "What's up? You don't seem in a good space." That it's the start of a meaningful and good conversation.

And the other way around. I experienced it, which is beautiful. Being seen as a human in your suffering.

The environments that keep repeating how good we have it, that we should be thankful.

I feel that that has been misrepresented a lot. To thankful when we feel good and when we have worldly pleasure.

How about feeling thankful for suffering? Thankful for His love for us? Having faith that he will give exactly what we need, even when we don't see the meaning of it.

I think you have a point on the whining and complaining, that it can be caused by the emptiness of a life without God.

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Excessive complaining is silly and annoying, and most of us do it, but it is most common in youth and the elderly. God's prophets even complained to God, Elijah and Jonah are good examples, the latter even being upset that He didn't destroy the Ninevites.

The only good explanation I can come up with for the subversion of the family and the generational corruption of those who would make good family heads or partners, is that getting married/having children in this current age may end up being more of a curse than blessing. Of course, this is dependent on the participants, but again, one just has to look as to what generally happens in the society - school, law, relationships - to recognize how poorly it "works out" for a large, large portion of people. A good example of this would be the suffering one might endure due to forced jabs on kids, forced stealing of money from marriage, forced sexual manipulation to young kids, etc. It's not widespread (yet, except for the marriage/divorce scam) but it's out there.

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A better question would be, how does Christianity approach the reality of human suffering compared to other worldviews, say, Buddhism or atheism? Or better yet, philosophies such as Stoicism, nihilism and existentialism?

Buddhism presupposes suffering as something to be avoided, and can be avoided by eliminating one's desire (hence the emphasis on asceticism to attain nirvana). But Christianity on the other hand tells the inconvenient truth that suffering is bound to happen one way or another, and even tells people to embrace and undergo suffering. So which is which?

It's easy and intuitive to complain that life is unfair, and more commonly, for people to blame God for everything and abandon their faith. But is this a universal human thought process, or something brought about by whatever popular conceptions people have about God?

I've undergone a great deal of personal struggle with this question, chiefly due to how Calvinism warped my mind into rejecting my own free will, initiative and agency. With everything I've been taught by Protestant pastors and teachers, it felt like there's a cruel twist to Murphy's Law applying to my life as a Christian. It straight up discouraged me for years, thinking that any endeavor I undertake will inevitably fail because of suffering. It took Orthodoxy to clear up the truth on how demons would constantly attack Christians with logismoi and such, and as a consequence the Christian must constantly be vigilant. In the Orthodox perspective, human will and action are given value as being synergistic with God's grace, something I would never learn from TULIP.

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Buddhism presupposes suffering as something to be avoided, and can be avoided by eliminating one's desire (hence the emphasis on asceticism to attain nirvana). But Christianity on the other hand tells the inconvenient truth that suffering is bound to happen one way or another, and even tells people to embrace and undergo suffering. So which is which?

I think it is both, depending on the type of suffering, because 'eliminating desire' also has a proper place in Christianity. Before I became Catholic I used to say (out loud and frequently) "I want to be rich." And I was suffering in order to achieve that goal, by saving and investing a large portion of my income, forgoing lots of fun or enjoyable things that cost money. I also suffered working long hours in unpleasant circumstances with some unpleasant people, in order to have a larger salary.

Now, though, as a practicing Catholic, I have eliminated the desire to be rich. I am even wary of being rich, because of Christ's teaching about the perils of wealth. So God in His mercy has provided other ways for me to suffer.

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A cross post from the Elder Aimilianos of Simonopetra Monastery thread, that's pertinet here:

"God never gives you a Cross without first weighing and measuring it very carefully to make sure that the Cross will result in your spiritual growth.

So don’t think it’s random, don’t think it’s chance, don’t think it’s too much. It’s been very carefully weighed and very carefully measured, so that it will result in spiritual growth and spiritual benefit."

And:

"God cannot be born within us without birth pangs. And the suffering that we experience, whether it’s emotional suffering or physical suffering, these are the birth pangs, the travail, the suffering in our life that will enable God to be born and to grow within us."

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