Women Are Experts At Wasting Men’s Time

When you have a lot going on in your life, you don’t waste time on pointless activities. If you’re a single guy with plenty of dating options, you won’t spend a minute of your day talking to a fat girl. If you’re looking to make your first $1 million, you won’t go searching the ground for pennies. Women, on the other hand, are not like men. Every day and night, millions of women waste the time of men they aren’t attracted to, simply to be entertained and to pass the time.

I was recently the victim of such a woman in a club. She was quite pretty and petite so I approached her with a standard opener. I moved her to a quieter room so I could entertain her like the professional clown that I am. To rule out her being a “shy” girl, I did my jig for a little longer than necessary, but after getting strong red lights to further escalation steps, I had to withdraw.

I spent 30 minutes on a girl who had no sexual interest in me, but who didn’t mind having an ultimately meaningless conversation because at that moment I was more exciting than her smartphone or friends. In other words, I was just another TV channel, another app, another web site, another radio station, another dancing cock that made her life slightly more interesting and tolerable than what she is capable of doing herself. She used me to temporarily forget about her boring existence.

When was the last time you used a girl for entertainment? Unless you’re Julien Blanc, a broken clown who trolls women to provide cheap laughs for his paying customers, you view women in intimate or purposeful terms. You want from them a specific role that only a female can provide, meaning you plan on either extracting intimacy from her or from one of her friends, and if not then you’re a damn fool because there is nothing more a girl not related to you by blood can provide.

Men have their existing forms of entertainment that provide far more value than a conversation with a typical modern woman, but women view us not just sexually but also as a chimp performing sign language, which means that a trillion hours are wasted every year with men trying to start a sexual relationship with a woman who has no intention of doing so, or who is so confused about want she wants that she can change her mind halfway through the seduction with no shame of leaving you in the lurch.

I’ve done things to minimize this wasted time component, especially when it comes to going on dates, which can be huge time sinks. I analyzed my past successes and compared the behavior of girls I’ve banged to girls I didn’t, but in spite of that, I still manage to waste unacceptable amounts of time on bad prospects. As long as you want to get laid with women, as long as you don’t want to have sex with your hand or with a hooker, your time will be wasted, and girls who you think will not do that to you will surely prove themselves to be another poor investment you made.

While it wouldn’t hurt for you to understand the profile of a flake, that can only minimize the problem of wasting time, not eliminate it completely, because with our strong desire for sex, we have to grind it out and spend hours to entertain many women in order to experience 30 minutes of sexual pleasure with one. My advice to you is to not have such a busy lifestyle where you can’t occasionally spend a couple hours a day hunting for women. Don’t be so tired at the end of the day that you can’t do a handful of approaches or go on a long date. This is what’s necessary these days for men just to get laid every once in a while.

Read Next: All Women Burn You The Same In The End

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Inside UoM
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Reading that last part made it seem like getting laid is another part time job on top of your existing lifestyle. Well… in the west, it looks like that’s what its coming to.

Uncle Elroy
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The USSA is a Zog golem- that’s it. So yeah worthless and twisted actions will follow from land so corrupt at the top and so naive/ignorant at the bottom.

Vito
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You sound like you got problems with your masculinity.

Vito is a dumb nigger
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YOU sound like a fucking retard.

WhoKnows3000
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Pretty much the case in the entire world. In nations like India or Saudi Arabia, men need to pedestalize women as house wives. The one-way relationship becomes so bad that once divorce hits, the male ends up killing he woman.

Not that I justify it, but traditionalism is just as messed up. It just isn’t worth it in a world that’s a lot more automated and near-perfect economic parity between wo/men.

Thomas
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Author
What is it about female psychology in the West that makes them have a propensity towards this type of selfish (evil?) behavior?

And to keep it real I think the more I learn about women the more I see they are mainly evil and delusional, selfish creatures.

Johan Strand
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People respond to carrots and sticks

In the West, women face no sticks, so they sociopathically pursue the biggest carrot.

Jeb
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Heh, and in the west, we’ve totally abandoned the carrot and stick approach for males, instead opting for “To hell with the carrot – gimme two sticks!”

spentcasings
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Evil and delusional, selfish creatures, merely because a woman at a club was willing to chat but not have sex?

GetItGoing
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Did you not read anything? That’s clearly not why.

Sam T
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You are correct but this is not exclusive to women.
This is a human trait. Men are quite selfish as well.
The only difference is the subject of this forum is women and how their selfishness effects us men.

zaqan
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Fundamental Premise.

zaqan
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“This is what’s necessary these days for men just to get laid every once in a while.”

Its always been that way and youve even written as much. It was even harder back in the day when you couldnt kiss until several dates. The Beatles song “I Want to Hold Your Hand” was scandalous in the 60s.

PumpFast
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I remember my grandfather telling me stories about picking
girls up in the late 30’s, early 40’s and banging them in his car. He would
always disagree with the popular claim that “girls didn’t used to be like
that”.

Jeb
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Yup!

Back in the early 90’s, when I was 20 or 21, I worked with an old guy in his sixties (he taught me how to dress well and tie a double windsor knot – with a perfect divot, so I didn’t look like a slob – Thanks, Bud! I still tie them that way today!)

Anyway, he used to relate to me the girls they shagged in “his day.”

He told me of the one girl they were all friends with, and how all the guys would screw her constantly while she was dating her fiance… in fact, he said she got screwed pretty hard right before her wedding.

At the time, my small little PC brain thought he was lying… but now, I’m not so sure. He sure didn’t lie to me about how to wear a suit without looking like a fool.

Scott Magill
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You sound like a meat-gazing fag.

acehole
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acehole
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Whores and sluts have existed in all time periods. The difference with today is simply that you have more of them because there is no shame. People in general were far more discrete, they didn’t advertise their f*ckery.

WhoKnows3000
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That’s worse. Who in the fucking world wants to marry a woman that Jeb just described? There’s nothing to it getting fucked as a woman..it requires no effort due to men out-number women at the younger ages.

Guest
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But those girls stuck around.

Johnny Johnson
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No it wasnt,,Elvis was scandalous,the Beatles were love to young teens but not overt like Elvis

zaqan
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I dont get this whole “women are worthless as friends” thing. Ive had girls as friends my whole life. Ive never had trouble talking to girls, unless I really liked them, but even then, I still managed it.

General Stalin
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zaqan
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I have read that here and elsewhere and I find it to be nonsense. There are women I am friends with and would never bang. And they arent all unattractive (some are, some arent). Its like the whole friendzoning thing. It seems so bewildering and nonsensical, but after looking back at all the times I was zoned and hearing from female friends who unzoned guys (which blows the ladder theory up completely), Ive concluded that you only get zoned if you dont make your intentions clear. Every time I got zoned, I told a girl directly that I liked her. I never made any moves. Never even tried to kiss. The ones who didnt zone me, I did make moves on very quickly. And I know girls who started as friends who were not interested in me at all, and later have all but begged me. Sadly for them, they are on my other ladder.

WhoKnows3000
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Friend-zoning is the result of numbers. In post-war Germany when the male population plummeted, women actually went out and gave men their numbers. This tradition still exists and post-Nazi society was a hell lot more traditional than our one today.

Truth is, the gender-ratio favors women when we look at the sub-35 age. This is the case of other animals as well, but unlike in early human civilization, men didn’t get regularly wiped out in war.

“Ive concluded that you only get zoned if you dont make your intentions clear. ”

You and those four people are wasting your time here. While I am no PUA, I find these kind of brushing off rather reasonable positions with equally simplistic nonsense as annoying. Most people here don’t give a shit and maybe we need to see a lot more people vote in Trump/ Neo-Nazis to soundly end this SJW activism. In sum, go back to your space.

Anyhow, I knew plenty of women who intentionally wasted the time of men. This was common shit in the “ghettos” and unlike white women who generally pretend to be angelic ( think lynching of black men via lies by many white women), black women are pretty upfront about having social power. In other words, these women make themselves appear easier and end up zoning the fuck out of the dude.

Jeb
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I’ve found that time tends to solve things for people in your dilemma.

I’ve had many females who I’v considered to be friends, but who have overwhelmingly proven over time that they are not even close to being friends.

It was Nietzche I believe who said that women are incapable of friendship – they are either a slave or a tyrant, but never a friend. (He also aks who of you men are capable of friendship, btw).

By middle age, I can say that the only “true” women friends I’ve had are ex lovers who I have moved on from – in other words, the women who I’ve ended relationships with rather than her monkey branching to another guy.

I think why exes I’ve dumped remain friends over time is because the sexual dynamic stays in place – you have displayed a higher SMV by walking away from her, and this co-incides with her hypergamy in confirming your higher status. This kind of woman remains your slave.

When it happens the other way around – the woman dumps you for another guy – it is impossible to ever have a friendship with her, no matter how many years in between. This kind of woman turns into a tyrant.

I think this dynamic also exists on a subtle level in so-called platonic friendships. The girls who are your friends are also the girls who would bang you if given the right chance.

Jack Daniels
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Nietzsche lived in his head overanalyzing everything as opposed to taking continual direct action. Wasn’t he the guy who fell madly in love (while she used him to advance her agenda) with some conniving slut and was real depressed when she left him for younger meat?

Most people into philosophy are loco-hit the street and make something work in real life as opposed to burying yourself in the books of archaic wackos.

Jeb
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It’s pretty hard to understand life until you’ve royally fucked it up. Give Nietzche a break.

Schopenhauer as well, got his dink kicked in repeatedly by the ladies before he wrote his essay “on Women.”

Would you REALLY take Brad Pitt’s words on how to pick up women over Schopenhauer’s? Pitt’s viewpoints are out of this world, while Schopenhauer’s reflects the position of most of the rest of us.

Ray Wolfson
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yup…. there’s only way to know where the edge of the cliff is….. just be prepared to break your fall and climb back up again…. anything else is for women and children……

hernan cortez
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Basically true. Women are not your friends, there is an ulterior motive. A girl cannot be your friend like a man can.

zaqan
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I have rarely had a good friendship from a man, even now when I am trying more to build friendships with men. I just find it not always as enjoyable. Some are complete jackass, some are dweebs. There is rarely a good bonding. With girls/women, its always been pretty natural to build a friendship. Sometimes I later become sexually interested, and sometimes I dont. Sometimes they are hot, sometimes they are blobby. I suspect a lot of this “women cant be friends” view comes from a youth where you guys found it impossible to talk to girls. Thats why most of us are here. So you could never figure out how to forge friendships. The idea that you cant have a friendship with a woman is almost ridiculous. There is massive historical evidence that men from all social strata can maintain friendships with women. There are still a few cynics out there like Nietscze and Schopenauer as stated, but again I think that grows out of some bad experiences getting burned. I just have never had a problem with girls. I think one negative effect of this is that the friendships became a bit too much and I didnt pursue sex/relationships as hard as I would have had I been deprived female companionship.

hernan cortez
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Get a better crowd of friends. It might take a while, but avoid poor men. Find men with alot of good things going on in their life.

In my experience. Women who will be your friends are usually just using you for sex, trying to get sex with you, or so on. If you are an orbiter, she will be FRIENDLY with you for the attention, but she isn’t your friend, she isn’t going to pick you up from the airport. and if she does, it is because she wants to fuck you. There are some exceptions, like if you are black and she is black, or you are boznian and she is boznian, you share a common cultural link and it may be non sexual. But outside of that, women won’t be your friends in my experience.

It could be bias because I am very good looking and charasmatic so women don’t want to befriend. I’ve often been given ultimatiums from women to basically get sexual with them or they won’t have nothing to do with me.

Blaming this on “not being able to forge friendships” with women is foolishness. You cannot forge a friendship with a unwilling participant. That is why it is called a friendSHIP. not a friend boat. One man can’t run a ship, not even the captain. Besides, when I was in high school, most of my friends were girls, in fact come to think of it, it was me and a group of 9 girls who ate at every lunch.

The fact you are so readily able to “form friendships” simply confirms you are being FRIENDZONED. There is a difference, they see you as a male orbiter who gives them attention. You are not their friend. They are not inviting you out to girls night out are they? Didn’t think so. And if they are, one of them wants to fuck you.

This would not be a friendship because the “friends here” have completely unaligned goals. You want male like friendship, she wants to be fucked.Sooner or later the real agenda always comes out. It often starts with her calling her ex boyfriend a wimp or gay who never fucked her or never fucked her hard enough.

Females don’t even make friends with each other, never mind males.

Will your son be next?
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What Men Know that Women Don’t – “The World of Woman” – Rich Zubaty & Sue Hindmarsh -Feminism – https://youtu.be/8QHM41jKJpk

EVERY MGTOW SHOULD HEAR THIS..

PJ
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Are you guys aware that what gets described as the ‘woman’ here is essentially the Queen of England – the source of all this matriarchal cluelessness?

WhoKnows3000
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Well said, Hernan. The other problem here is that men heavily overrate women. We did it as kids, and that’s exploited extensively. Girls realize that at a young and it’s only parsimonious that this additional leverage would not be managed responsibly by women. In fact, if men were pedestalized as in Ancient Greece ( women were considered ugly, child-producers, recreational sex was male homosexual), I am sure it’d probably produce scores of alienated women as well.

Now before people talk without experience, go ask the minority male youth who decided to drop out of school. If one is honest ( most won’t due to pride), most would point to highly racist female teachers who use heavily use restrictive zero tolerance against you. Male, teachers, at least allow minority boys to challenge establishment ideas while the women often pretend to be part of elite. They sure are much uglier to look at it, but at least you don’t get channelled out.

WhoKnows3000
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“. There is massive historical evidence that men from all social strata can maintain friendships with women. ”

Once again, incorrect. Women were generally proactive in leading lynch mobs. In the South or even in the Ottoman Empire, women would hysterically claim oppressed minority men raped her. This would result in lynch mobs from white knighting men.

Honestly, you ain’t convincing shit and this experience of your is pretty fucking bullshit. Truth is, female teachers are often more racist against black boys ( think zero tolerance) than the male counterpart. I’ve seen this first person with boys who didn’t do shit getting taken out of the school by the authorities. Very often it involved some jaded women who takes her frustration out on the boys.

okay
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Yeah, this doesn’t resonate with me either. Talking to girls is fun for it’s own sake. Better to be the type of person who has an edge but enjoys talking to girls in general while keeping it light.

WhoKnows3000
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Talking to girls is pretty easy. That doesn’t mean friendships manifest out of it. Since women tend to have more superficial discussions, social activities, genders naturally segregate. If I were into athletics, some sub-culture, technology, or politics, girls are usually invisible.

Now if the specific sub-culture become mainstream ( i.e. tech), girls do takeover. However, it becomes more of a pink space and men end up leaving for most parts. This is noticeably whether we’re talking about Sweden ( i.e. male-dominated hockey culture) or East New York ( i.e. basketball, hip hop, etc).

Ron
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I think it all depends on where you are at in your life. Many men when we are younger have more time on our hands to chill,talk, and hang out. As a man becomes older and more focused his time becomes more precious to him. He is trying to get the most out of his life. He has less time just chatting, or being engulfed by menial ”problems” that many women like to indulge in. He will often start to see many women as time wasters, instead of adding value to his purpose. And to be honest, there are very few who add true value.

WhoKnows3000
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Well said. This is the kind of shit I used to hear from pimps strutting around with cash.

Women, really, like to be the object of desire. You simply aren’t going to acquire your first home if stalled by that bullshit. Women love to waste time, and thank goodness, I actually knew a number who openly admitted to doing that.

intplayer
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I’ve had experiences with female friends in the past, and in the end, it just felt like it was a bad bargain where the girl would gain more than I would if it was a “conventional” friendship.

There was one girl who, back in my more beta days, I would message with on an almost daily basis. I would share my most personal thoughts, and somehow thought the fact we spoke to eachother on such a regular basis would actually count for something. In a way it did – it was a mutual exchange of entertainment and alleviation of boredom, but I wanted more than that. When I found out that she was juggling a bunch of other beta orbiters at the same time, I could only conclude that I was just another source of boredom-alleviation, and there was no intrinsic value for me as a person outside of that. I also could no longer accept that I was investing time in a non-sexual prospect, while that same time could better be spent chasing tail.

This encounter, and a few others where I found myself inexplicably rapidly friendzoned, left a bad taste in my mouth regarding male-female friendships, because I felt the balance of power in these kind of friendships always turned out in the womans favor. I was also fed up with not being appreciated as a man. It made it very difficult for me to accept female friendship in any way shape or form, and I even became averse to women hugging me, messing with my hair or faux-sexual dancing if it was in a non-sexual manner.

My current rule is that I won’t do female friendships unless I have a steady source of tail. Aside from that I only try do friendships with girls who are pretty, because I want to be seen with pretty girls. I will also accept friendships wherein the power dynamic is in my favor, i.e. that she wants it more than I do. Some women however, can have a more man-like brain and be capable of abstract thought and philosophy, and those I may also allow as friends, though they don’t really count as traditional females I’d say.

On the right terms, male-female friendships can be possible. But investing in female friends while not being sexually appreciated as a man by at least one woman is entirely unacceptable to me.

hernan cortez
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LOL, you must be average to ugly then, Almost every female friend I have gets angry that I don’t want to fuck them and eventually accuses me of being gay or cuts off all contact with me once they find a man they want to fuck. This seems far more prevalent with ethnic women than white women though.

WhoKnows3000
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Yeah man, Hernan. In working class neighborhoods, women are running you down if you aren’t interested in them. This includes the scary fat ones you just don’t want to mess with. Maybe shit is different in white hoods?

Then again, this over-feminized white male is really just a middle class phenomena. I noticed things being similar in working class white areas too. Women tend to attack in mobs so playing with them can get a bunch of rumors thrown out left/right. Thing is, if a man were to do the same shit that women do in the ghettos, there is a good chance he’d get stabbed or shot.

ExcuseMePlease
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Maybe I can help: you don’t get it because you’re a healthy, well-adjusted human being capable of viewing other humans as such (rather than, say, walking vaginas) and appreciating their company. This is in sharp contrast to the author, and the majority of commentators here who are miserably maladjusted and clearly lead unhappy lives in pursuit of something that doesn’t exist.

Be glad you don’t get it and carry on your merry way.

GetItGoing
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Absolutely incorrect. And misses the point, as well.

WhoKnows3000
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Honestly, I wish you got shot. Seriously, shut the fuck up. If there were dudes with your snide ass behavior, I definitely would’ve shot you.

Robert Graff
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What have those Girlfriends done for you lately and what have you done for them. Usually, female friends just try to use males.

elmer
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Dead-on truth.

“..there is nothing more a girl not related to you by blood can provide.”

Extends to the workplace as well. Women do not provide men opportunity. They compete for jobs but do not create them. Workplace females love to embroil you in pointless dramas merely for their own entertainment. Any socialization you have with them will certainly return to you like a sting from a jellyfish.

crotch model
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“.there is nothing more a girl not related to you by blood can provide”

Good point. The only exception of females genuinely caring about you would be sisters, female cousins, nieces, etc. Somehow these females act differently when you are a part of the same blood tribe.

WhoKnows3000
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Female workspaces are all about micro-management. That’s something I noticed a substantial number of women like. Even the variety that aren’t that productive want to introduce rigid order much like the bullshit you see on Mean Girls.

Men, for most part, get fucked by the order unless they happen to be the top boss.

Johan Strand
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A solution for time wasting on dates is the abrupt bail-out.

If a girl doesn’t have an alcoholic drink within my first 30 minutes with her, and doesn’t respond playfully to my teasing her about it – 9 times out of 10 I will grab my coat and leave immediately.

GetItGoing
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You’re a man’s man, my friend. A tip of the hat to you.

I would love to hear how they respond, as well.

Johan Strand
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It’s generally fairly clean. Most girls don’t want the public shame of complaining.

There have been a few awkward.encounters with this method.
I’ve had two instances of girls shouting and bawling at me, one of a drink thrown.
And the most memorable; a “DO NOT DATE THIS MAN” facebook page was created by a girl I bailed on after 23 minutes.

Though these were rare mishaps in my efficient period of high-frequency dating.

Jeb
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Makes you wonder how much over-all productivity in the West is wasted on wooing women, doesn’t it?

Once upon a time, a man peacocked around only in his teens and early twenties… then when he got married, he sold the flashy car he couldn’t afford, bought a rusty station wagon and put the rest towards a house… then got on with accomplishing something with the rest of his life other than wooing women.

But with a 50% divorce rate coupled with hypergamy and serial monogamy, rather than a man spending only a few years – at the most low-paid time in his career – peacocking around to attract women, we now have men wasting their time and resources over and over and over again, until they get into their forties and finally say fuck it because their sex drive is no longer strong enough to over-come the stench that is modern dating.

Seriously, think about how much investment capital is wasted on this… think of the longterm economic impacts on both men and women, as well as society as a whole. It is astronomical how many resources we waste constantly chasing after women, rather than getting on with living.

Jeb
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Andrea
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Roosh,
What about human interaction as the goal itself. The manosphere argues that women do not offer anything valuable to men except sex and intimacy. I’ve met my fair share of superficial, egotistical, mediocre women so I get where these stereotypes are coming from. But can you write more about some of the qualities you liked amongst all the women you’ve met throughout the years and around the world. Men would look for these qualities and avoid the rest, saving time, energy, money and emotional investment.

Jeb
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Proverbs 31 would be a good place to start… except that even Solomon, the wisest of the wise, states at the beginning “A wife of noble woman who can find?” indicating that even though he’s describing one, he also cannot find one.

Notice this passage also clearly states that women ought to have jobs aside from raising children, that women should be part of the marketplace, that they should own private property and make investments with their profits, and so forth. So much for the barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen nonsense which feminists claim Christianity tries to impose upon them. What Solomon is actually complaining about is that women aren’t working hard enough! And since Solomon was the wisest of the wise while I am a mere average person in the street, who am I to argue?
.
The Wife of Noble Character

10 A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.
.
11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.
.
12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.
.
13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.
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14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.
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15 She gets up while it is still night;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her female servants.
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16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

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17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.
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18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.
.
19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
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20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.
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21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.
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22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.
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23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.
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24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.

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25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.
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26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
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27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
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28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:
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29 “Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all.”
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30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
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31 Honor her for all that her hands have done,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
.

Andrea
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Wow that sounds just like my grandmother. My mother is American and was not raised like her…and of course my mother didn’t raise me like her. I’m now learning, after much pain, reflection, experiences, and research that my grandmother s ways were not oppressive. She was a giving, loving, flexible woman who knew about integrity, self respect and hard work.

deek malikeek
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Sadly it’s already too late for the other 3 billion+ of your kind to wake up. Personally, I’m just gonna sit back with a bottle of 151 and enjoy the fireworks when they finally happen.

The12thUnknownMan
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Got to upvote you for that. That’s Judaism, not Christianity, by the way.

Guest
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You’re better off interacting with a farm animal than a woman.

Andrea
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Andrea
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It reminds me of the Woody Allen movie where the guy marries a sheep. Lol

Robert Graff
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Please make a list of these things you think women could have to offer, so that us as men can let you know if they have value to us.

Andrea
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Andrea
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Women can offer their feminine energy, which is extremely powerful and alluring to masculine men. They can do this through the way they look at men, they way they receive from men, the way they listen and talk, the way they smile, the way they look and smell, and the way they feel around the men. This may sound like mumbo jumbo or sexist to some -it even did to me years ago- but from experience I know this is true.

Robert Graff
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Robert Graff
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Women feed off of the mans energy. In a balanced relationship both feed from each other. but there are few balanced relationships now.

Robert Graff
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Robert Graff
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That’s called manipulation and does not count as a contribution in a healthy relationship, Mainly because women use their manipulation to benefit them and their desires and not everyone in the relationship.

Only unwise men or boys fall for that manipulation. I admit that a female in her sexual prime ‘when young’, has pheromones that have effect on the surrounding men and cause them to act like buffoons. None of the ones acting like idiots to impress her, actually does. Its the guy manipulating the others into doing, and takes leadership over them and her attention that gains her affections. The leader.

Andrea
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Andrea
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You’re saying both sexes manipulate. Well yes, every one does. However, when there’s genuine desire and attraction, manipulation becomes less conscious because it feels as if you’re just letting go and enjoying the ride.

Robert Graff
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Robert Graff
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No I am saying many women offer nothing besides sex. The manipulation is not a contribution. If a man is stupid enough to fall for the woman’s trickery then shame on him.

That being said, I can say that some women do have their minds in the proper alignment and think they are being a muse to their men. But if the man does not actually make his mind up on the decision and then does the action out of desperation to secure the acceptance of the female he is weak and she is an abuser of her situation. A user is only an abuser. Only a woman would think going along for the ride is a good thing. Life is too short for some men for them to look at life so lightheartedly. Women live longer because they use men to do the dirty work. That is not a cut down its a fact. I don’t have these issues women know where i stand, in the lead position, I am just not a follower. I do respect your ability to hold this conversation though. I love talking with new people and communicating ideas. I do have a tendency to come off as brash though lol.

PrepZ
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PrepZ
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Excellent observation Roosh.

Women now demand that we men waste our time on them. I happened to me just last night as I was out at a small “craft” beef place listening to some of my friends perform — a jazz trio. I was there to support them. Yet the haggardly barfly and over-the-hill owner were miffed that I didn’t pay any attention to them or run any game.

They insisted I play my part of the clown, the jester, and entertain them — to the point of having one of them insist I take her Mardi Gras beads after I had already rejected her beads once. The old hag wanted my game, but I wouldn’t even give the old hag eye contact. The over-the-hill owner, who by the way had been continuously drinking at her own bar to alleviate her own boredom, stated that I needed to “loosen up.” Translation: I need to entertain her and her old hag friend rather than focus my attention on my friends who I went there to see.

I promptly paid my tab and left, putting those rediclous plastic beads on the old hag barfly. See seemed amused, albeit for a fleeting moment.

Derek
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Derek
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Sounds like a wonderful city like DC or Toronto…

The12thUnknownMan
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The12thUnknownMan
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Sounds like they wanted to abuse you in a 3some.

Ray Wolfson
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Ray Wolfson
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try an LTR…. it’s never ending…. some of them want you to hold hands and watch TV for hours on end….. outside of fucking and sleeping afterwards, there’s really not enough hours in the day for much more energy focused on women……

bigode
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bigode
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If all you want from a woman is sex and everything else about them is wasted time, it seems to me that a hooker is a good option. You’re not paying for sex, you’re paying for time…your time.

Gladius
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Gladius
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Right. Don’t know who said this but to paraphrase ” you pay hookers for sex and you pay them to LEAVE”

Ray Wolfson
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Ray Wolfson
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charlie sheen in the heidi fleiss escorts court case…..

i don’t pay them for sex, i pay them to leave afterwards

or to quote my crazy Swedish friend…

first you can’t get hold of them, and then you can’t get rid of them….

ATC
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ATC
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Just remember that the man who maintains enough free time for long dates and approaching will not be taking the time to generate enough side income to go expat.

ATC
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ATC
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Girls are more likely to waste your time now by giving real contact info than in years past since our thirsty texts, stored on devices with nearly unlimited memory, provide them with constant validation and laffs with their friends and orbiters.

sharp
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sharp
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If I’m honest with myself, access to a greater quality/quantity of women is the motivating reason behind virtually everything I do. If that access were guaranteed to me, anytime, anywhere, free of charge, I’d probably pack my bags, go live in a cabin in the middle of nowhere, reduce my expenses to under 5k per year and generally drop out, at least until the time came to raise a family. That’s the dream, and as long as the struggle for it continues, there is certainly no time for boredom.

Comparatively, the boredom in the life of the average western woman is palpable. And how could it not be? They’re born with the world practically handed to them on a silver platter. Seriously, what is the point of being an unmarried woman with no children? I would struggle to even come up with a reason to get up in the morning.

What most men call “normal life” would drive most women into a profound depression. That may seem like a raw deal, and heck, it probably is. But look on the bright side: at least we have something to do.

Zelcorpion
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Zelcorpion
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This reminds me of all those cases where I opened a girl and she was all sparkles, no shit-tests and totally open from the get-go. Usually I find out that her boyfriend/husband is in the very same club and she is just using me to keep her entertained. At least when I find out, I leave immediately. But one such girl had the gall to say: “So what? You leaving me instantly?”
“Yeah darling, because I have a better chance of getting your boyfriend drunk and fuck him than you.” I said that once to such a girl, because her BF looked a bit hipsterish and feminine.

Roosh_V
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Roosh_V
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Sounds like Poland

Zelcorpion
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Zelcorpion
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Exactly. Did not encounter those girls in Czech republic or Slovakia.

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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Why?
Would the Czech girls just tell a guy they weren’t interested in to get lost instead of standing around like timid sheep?

Are there a decent amount of symmetrical faced gorgeous blondes in CZ (which cities) or is that just marketing bs like the undeserved acknowledgement Swedes get?

Zelcorpion
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Zelcorpion
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Nah – I personally did not encounter girls in SK, CZ or HU going out with their boyfriends. That’s a pastime that you find in Poland sometimes.

When a girl is open without any bitch-shield, then that gold is not real. And this has nothing to do with “timidness” or instant rejections.

The12thUnknownMan
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The12thUnknownMan
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Didn’t you ever consider you were being selected for a MFM 3some?

Luisaceo
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Luisaceo
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Isn’t this mainly due to the polite nature of Polish girls? They rarely shut you down rudely and many won’t mind having a conversation or even dancing with a random guy they’re not attracted to but at the same time it spares the ego since it doesn’t feel like a rejection, making the next approach easy and painless. I guess this is better for less experienced guys but not for a guy like Roosh.

Kish
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Kish
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This is why i’m transitioning to an assertive style of game. I’m gonna test it out more and write about it on the forum

GRock
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GRock
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Good points. I’ve been blowing off the ones who waste time much quicker than before. Maybe I miss some lays that putting in more work may have garnered, but the opportunity cost to my life has to strike a balance.

They say a woman will decide if she’ll bang you in the first 20 min or less (often first 30 sec or less) of meeting you. Learn to extract what those indicators are as early as possible and literally save your life!

David
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David
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That’s a picture of Italy after an earthquake .-.

crotch model
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crotch model
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“because at that moment I was more exciting than her smartphone or friends. In other words, I was just another TV channel, another app, another web site, another radio station, another dancing cock that made her life slightly more interesting and tolerable than what she is capable of doing herself. She used me to temporarily forget about her boring existence.”

Men better learn that he means absolutely nothing in the eyes of women. Nothing. A lot of time can be saved by just waving a gram of coke in her face.

Clark Kent
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Clark Kent
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“Men better learn that he means absolutely nothing in the eyes of women. Nothing. A lot of time can be saved by just waving a gram of coke in her face.”

I learned that this past weekend. A girl invited me to her place at 530am to “snuggle” so I went to go check out the scene. We’re getting comfortable in her bedroom and an hour later another dude shows up with a gram of coke…
All my game and intimate conversation counted for fuck all in the face of soma.

crotch model
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crotch model
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“All my game and intimate conversation counted for fuck all in the face of soma.”

Sorry to hear that. If I may ask, what happened next?

Clark Kent
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Clark Kent
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Stayed up til 1030am partying and eating mushrooms with these two. I wasn’t going anywhere, it was -30 outside and I missioned far from home to get to this girls place.
They probably fucked when I left but I had a good time for what it was. But it was tallied in my roster of North American women are practically useless for LTRs… And a pain in the ass for STRs.

tropicalhotdognight
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tropicalhotdognight
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I had something similar happen to me, except the soma was pot. Was getting cozy with a girl at her place late at night and then she calls her “pot dealer”, who also turns out to be her fuckbuddy. Awkward humiliation ensues, though I tried to keep a brave face. In effect, I heated her up for this guy.
Another reason to avoid women who indulge heavily in drugs and alcohol – they are selfish and exploitative.

Clark Kent
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Clark Kent
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At this point I pretty much do self improvement and career development for myself. And as Roosh humorously put, to have something to talk about with women.
I could be a fucking genius with an athlete’s body and women wouldn’t even notice. She’s too busy thinking about the guy with the bag of coke.

I want to see what the rest of the world has to offer, I don’t understand what I am supposed to be doing here.

Alex
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Alex
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How about the developing of social skills? If you don’t do something your brain is going to shutdown that subsystem. In case if your work doesn’t involves much social communication you better do something. Of course it is easier to find something more pleasant then clowning. It it also can be fun if doing properly and not too often. Anyway girl don’t just wasting their time they just training on cats. Most of the time we do the same.
– Alex

Cadders
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Cadders
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It’s simply a manifestation of women’s propensity to live in the moment.

As men, we have a plan, a mission, we do cause and effect, we act with the intention of reaching our goal.

Women, mostly, are passive actors in this dance, relying on chemistry, fate, rainbows and pixies.

I think you are holding women to men’s standards. It is a standard most are simply not capable of ever reaching. As a man this sucks, it wastes our time and resources but ultimately I’m bloody glad I was born with a penis and not a reliance on rainbows and pixies.

Clark Kent
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Clark Kent
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Hence why modern women make useless wives.
Their childish nature is fine and all… even refreshing sometimes… but when they want to have stake in a man’s life, which requires balance and forethought, they’re most of the time just a liability.
They just have no concept that a man’s life doesn’t come to him for free. And hey, even if their current boyfriend’s life gets completely destroyed, there are thousands of men at any given time ready to dedicate their beta lives to her.
Modern women are mostly useless unfortunately.

John
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John
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Dear Rooshv,

Your conclusions here, as they often do, suffer from reductionist thinking. Your premise that women only offer intimacy is just a gross oversimplification, even if it’s true for the overwhelming majority. It’s easy to forget that the majority of men don’t bring much to the table either. An obvious counterexample is the fact that there are plenty of female musicians you could spend hours a day jamming out with if you yourself are a musician. It’s one of many cooperative forms of experience that is appealing and more robust to the test of time than just pure physical attraction which habituates quickly.

There are millions of attractive women who can give a man a lot more than intimacy but given their limited supply they have suitors lined up far more appealing than a dude who has dedicated his life to a pua blog and can spout some mildly amusing bull shit in the club. You very clearly have a distorted sense of reality that feeds your cynicism. The most attractive/interesting local guys have a massive legup on the women who are both attractive and interesting. Just because you can’t get the creme de la creme, doesn’t mean it is nonexistent altogether.

Roosh_V
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Roosh_V
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NAWALT
lol

Conrad Stonebanks
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Conrad Stonebanks
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“John” is a woman, add a woman’s voice to the words of “his” post, and watch the pieces of the puzzle fall into place.

john
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john
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I’m not a woman, so sick read Conrad. I conceded that women don’t have a ton to offer on average. Their intelligence tends to cluster towards the center of the bell curve and that makes for a lot of good data pushers. Male intelligence is higher variance, which produces more specimens at the super smart and super dumb extremes. That outcome leaves a handful of interesting men with out as many interesting female counterparts. The interesting females obviously exist, just in fewer numbers, which makes an interesting guy’s competition a bit stiffer if he wants both attractiveness and personality.

To pull the women who are both top 10-20% attractiveness and top 10-20% at “offering more than a warm body” you’re already looking at sub 5% of women (one could argue attractiveness is inversely correlated with “having more to offer” making the number smaller). These types of women might occasionally go to the bar/club, but most don’t even need the confidence boost of going out with a fat wing girl so rando meatheads elevate their sense of self worth.

So my question is, what talents/resources do you have that make you even top 5% of men, or even top 10% for that matter? What do women care about? Your monetary earn is modestly above average I imagine, nowhere near top 5 or even 10%. Where do you think you are on overall physical attractiveness, definitely not top 10% either. How about attractive skills (PUA blog LOL)? Explain to me why you think you deserve a top 5-10% girl when you clock in nowhere near that if we approximate how you rank in the various categories women judge men.

To offset your paltry earn and what I imagine is a slightly above average physical attractiveness you’d basically need to have an HBO standup special in which you kill in harder than Louis C.K. You need skills/personality in the top 1% to offset your other relatively mediocre traits to get the type of girl you probably think you deserve. Welcome to reality, where you have to actually be attractive and skilled to get women of the same nature unless you are just filthy rich and even then there are no guarantees.

sharp
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sharp
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What an odd strawman you’re attempting to take down. Roosh’s post has absolutely nothing to do with trying to get a “top 5%” chick, whether or not one is deserving of one, or anything else you’re babbling off topic about.

John
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John
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Roosh’s Patrick Batemanesque comment that I was responding to: ““You want from them a specific role that only a female can provide, meaning you plan on either extracting intimacy from her or from one of her friends, and if not then you’re a damn fool because there is nothing more a girl not related to you by blood can provide.”

I’m arguing that there are women who exist who offer a lot more than intimacy, just that the subset that is also talented and physically attractive (his implied standards) is a much smaller population and effectively impossible to pull if you don’t have similar qualities yourself. Just because it doesn’t exist in a russian club doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist at all. The burden is on you to be realistic and know when a girl is way out of your league and just being polite and continuing the conversation because you look like a lost foreigner with no friends. The signals are usually pretty obvious the overwhelming majority of the time if you’re paying attention.

sharp
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sharp
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So having a shared interest with a woman you’re trying to get with generally aids in the process of getting with her. Great. Thanks for the keen insight.

But putting aside the dubious link you seem to try to make between one’s rank in the pecking order and one’s mastery of some female friendly hobby (ie, there’s nothing particularly impressive, challenging, or admirable about becoming sufficiently adept at a musical instrument to impress a bunch of floozies), what you are proposing still doesn’t jive with the reality I’ve seen on the ground. Anecdotal as this may be (though I’m sure other readers could share similar stories), the biggest pimp I’ve met is a latino would-be gangster in his 30s who wouldn’t look out of place in a maximum security prison. There’s absolutely nothing “top 10%” about him, other perhaps than a perceived ability to dish out violence and, in all likelihood, access to a lot of drugs. And the bitches I’ve seen him pull are playmate level.

Counter theory: Women, even (especially?) the “quality” ones, are mostly hopeless degenerates seeking out equally hopeless degenerates, especially during their prime years. Or, as another poster in this thread astutely noted, may he who has the most drugs win.

john
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john
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Clearly he is relatively high in the pecking order if he is a bad ass with a lot of perceived power. Even just barely top 10% guys can still pull really attractive women, there’s no doubting that, but theyre probably going to be boring women if even they might be easy on the eyes. I’m saying if you want both attractiveness and exceptional personality you are demanding a subset in much smaller supply with demand from the entire male population. Obviously the smoking hot humanitarian lawyer, or whatever youre into, isn’t going for rico suave drug dealer if she can date george clooney or a studly neurosurgeon instead. There are always going to be dumb attractive girls who go for drugs or something superficial, but theyre obviously not going to be satisfying to date long term.

sharp
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sharp
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Your subjective idea of what makes a quality male rather does sound like a woman’s. That, or your idea of the pecking order is more so a race to the bottom than a race to the top. Either way, it certainly puts into question your idea that a man must be a talented high achiever to get high quality (read: attractive) women.

brb, gonna get sleave tats and start dealing coke to get moar chicks.

TurnThePaige
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TurnThePaige
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I like reading pua blogs but I rarely comment. Its not my world, I’m just watching. But John you hit it spot on, if a girl is both socially intelligent and has a lot of options she learns to read guys better than normal. Skilled pua’s are entertaining, its not hard to see why they succeed. But not with me I know what they are. A good game, a faked alpha demeanor, is not going to work, even though the playfulness is fun. When you are up at the top 5% you have no trouble getting the real the top 5%.

sharp
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sharp
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The problem with that idea is that probably close to 50% of women under 35 have such over inflated egos that they believe they are part of that top 5%.

I suppose it’s easy for delusional chicks to forget that most guys, including those at the top, will fuck any girl with a healthy BMI. The unfortunate side effect is that the lot of you tend to lose track of your own actual rank in the pecking order.

FYI, assuming that picture of yours is representative, you are cute, but you are not top 5%.

TurnThePaige
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TurnThePaige
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I’m not delusional Im at least in the top 10%. But it is true that just about any girls and get a man in bed. You only need to not be ugly and they have nothing better going on that night

TurnThePaige
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TurnThePaige
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Thank you. I’m good enough

start_your_own_blog
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start_your_own_blog
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TL; DR

Vegard Johansen
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Vegard Johansen
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Its true that evolution has given many women a “good ear”, as part of there superior social skills. But that does not mean that these women are interesting, in the sense that they have many original ideas, good reasoning skills etc. Its basically for the same reason that you find many great female musicians, but almost no great female composers.

Frank
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Frank
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John
where are you from man? A city with a big live music culture is a good thing.

Roost V
I think John has some good point here. I’d say get out of the bars and clubs-they suck. Like my hairdresser says you can take the girl out of the bar but you can’t take the bar out of the girl. Go to meet ups, churches, health food stores, art exhibits,book stores, etc.

The12thUnknownMan
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The12thUnknownMan
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Frances, tell it to your ‘hairdresser’. No man has a ‘hairdresser’.

crotch model
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crotch model
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Fag.

Guest
Guest
Guest
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Female musicians suck.

MajorStyles
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MajorStyles
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“as long as you don’t want to have sex with your hand or with a hooker”

-This explains why so many professional men seek the company of hookers. Time constraints can be a bitch, and many guys don’t have the hours to burn. This can, unfortunately, lead to sloppy game when the time comes to make a move on a non-pro.

acehole
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acehole
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Dominique Strauss-Kahn and Silvio Berlusconi being prime examples.

41490_0
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41490_0
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Guys take notes this is how you should act in the face of this kind of time wasting! Exactly like in the post! grin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fweo7zFgLrA&spfreload=10

tombreck2
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Roosh why do you continue to waste time on girls in clubs and bars? Party girls are a like scratching an itch over and over again instead of spending more time going to a doctor to get the itch fixed permaneantly.

Why not go to a running club, book club, salsa class, special interest meetups, entrepeneaur seminars, etc. where there will be more quality women?

Roosh_V
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Roosh_V
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Because those things have 5’s and 6’s. Maybe one 7.

tombreck2
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tombreck2
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For example, have you ever been to a Crossfit class (I know)? Mostly 7’s and 8’s and you see the same women on a weekly schedule along with the fact that it’s a more intimate setting.

acehole
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acehole
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crossfitters are mostly old and/or manly looking women.

tombreck2
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tombreck2
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The downtown DC ones are mostly girls 25 and under

S
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S
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I can give you an easy answer to the time wasting question: Women are trained to be polite and that outright rejecting a man makes her a rude bitch. Politely listening with disinterest and waiting for a man to take the hint is the least unpleasant option. It’s an extension of the guy on the bus who wants her attention while she’s listening to an iPod, scrolling her phone, or reading a book. If she is doing any of these things in public it is a clear sign that she is not interested in conversation, but the guy on the bus who feels like she may be the one who got away if he doesn’t talk to her right now and pulls the earbuds out of her ears to talk to her may be crazy, so best to placate and wait until he’s finished, responding a little as possible, while still being polite. If the societal standard changes so that women can reject men outright before bothering with a conversation, then less time will be wasted all around, for men and women.

Genie
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Genie
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Soooo true. I was once called a bitch to my face for cutting a guy off in mid sentence to say I wasn’t interested so didn’t want to waste his time. This after seeing him approach half the women in the bar. I was specifically told by my brother to be direct because engaging in conversation implies interest and it wastes a guy’s time when they could be approaching someone else.

sharp
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sharp
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…which, of course, does nothing to explain what women who aren’t interested in meeting guys are doing hanging out in bars or other such venues.

Genie
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Genie
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Should I assume then that a man at a bar who ignores women he finds unattractive is not interested in meeting women and should not be going to bars?

sharp
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sharp
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Only if you’re trying to be deliberately obtuse. A man in a bar is interested in any woman with a healthy BMI. Insofar as he’s ignoring anyone, he’s doing so because he doesn’t want to make a spectacle out of himself, having no faith that any female in the venue will reciprocate his advances. As opposed to doing so out of some misplaced, deluded sense of his own worth (ie, the province of women).

Genie
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Genie
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You’re painting a horrible picture of how it is for men in bars. If that’s the case that really really sucks. I always found that pubs seemed to be more laid back with friendlier people than dance clubs or any bar where there’s a dress code. It seemed that guys were more successful at meeting women in pub settings. I guess it also depends on where you live. I’m in Toronto which is not the place for most single men, but I’m from the Maritimes where women are definitely more outgoing and are very interested in anyone who is not from there.

sharp
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sharp
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“You’re painting a horrible picture of how it is for men in bars. If that’s the case that really really sucks.”

A horrible picture is exactly what it is. Do you really find it surprising? Surely you don’t believe that all those faceless wallflowers at the club are there because they just couldn’t think of anything better to do with their evening than to stand around in a dark, grimy corner, listening to shitty pop remixes and wasting their money on horribly overpriced alcohol?

I can assure you that on any given night out, you will cross paths with hundreds (literally) of guys who would be interested in going home with you (assuming healthy BMI, as previously noted, though to be honest, even that caveat is increasingly unimportant, the modern western dating market being the circus freakshow that it is). Most of them will go home with their dick in their hands. How most men became inadequate in the eyes of most women in the span of a generation or two is an interesting sociological question for another day, but it really does make one wonder, surveying the current landscape, how any of our ancestors ever got together, inherent male inadequacy being what it apparently is. Hmm.

Pubs are a good place to bring a date or work on girls in your group, but they’re not particularly good for cold approaches. The inevitable blowouts being much more evident for everyone to see (as your own little anecdote demonstrated), if you strike out once or twice, you may as well change venue.

I’m from Montreal. I’ve not found it more easy than any other large city in the West, though I will concede that on a per attempt basis, I’ve had a decent amount of luck with girls who weren’t born and raised in a cosmopolitan area.

Genie
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Genie
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Montreal’s a great city.

“A horrible picture is exactly what it is. Do you really find it surprising? Surely you don’t believe that all those faceless wallflowers at the club are there because they just couldn’t think of anything better to do with their evening than to stand around in a dark, grimy corner, listening to shitty pop remixes and wasting their money on horribly overpriced alcohol?”

Point taken. I just never considered it from a guys perspective. So if a guy spends time talking to a girl, doesn’t get in her pants (bc not all girls are going to have sex with some guy they just met at a bar) but he gets her phone number was that a waste of his time? Maybe she needs more time to get to know him, and that’s hard to do in a bar over loud shitty pop remixes. So say he texts her and she texts back and they plan a date that’s worth the time he spent with her right?

Sorry for what may seem like stupid questions but I’m honesty trying to understand. What’s the best way to say not interested to a nice guy that doesn’t make a woman look like a bitch. I was thinking of something like, “you seem very nice, I’m taken so I don’t want to waste your time and I bet there’s a lot of girls here who would be happy to meet you.” Does that seem cheesy? I think sometimes women don’t know what to say if they’re not interested and the guy is nice so they end up saying or doing the wrong thing. Then there are women who are plain bitches but I’m referring to the ones who are not,

Say an unattractive girl who was nice sat down next to you at a bar and introduced herself. You’re not interested. How would you convey that in a nice way (because you don’t seem like an asshole so I assume you don’t act like one around women).

Driver
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Driver
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There are ways (with a little more class) of disengaging from a conversation. Cutting off anyone (man or woman) in the middle of a sentence is always rude (that’s, at least, how I was raised – by my parents).

The way you disengage says everything (class). After that…if the guy or girl is still hurt then tell them to piss off.

Genie
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Genie
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You’re right women typically don’t bother with approaching men and sort of wait until mr right falls unto their lap. I’ve always felt women should get over themselves and approach as well, then they would see the kind of nerve it takes for men to do it. I’ve done it, sometimes it worked and sometimes not.

I actually wasn’t rude to this guy at the bar. I cut him off mid sleazy pick up line (nice ass etc etc) to say I want interested. Like S said, women usually wait until the guy either gets the hint or until there’s an opportunity to leave in a way that’s not rude. So if cutting someone off mid sentence is rude at what point should a women say she’s not interested so that the guy is not wasting his time talking to her?

Driver
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Driver
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I think you left out those crucial details in your initial post. If the guy doesn’t get the hint and he is truly being offensive, then yes you should cut his ass off. The problem, today, is many women find a guy “creepy” or “offensive”….just for saying hi.

We need to get back to the basics (a little civility). Someone being friendly should not be on the same level as “creepy” or “offensive”. Anyone being crude or rude gets what they deserve (it goes both way, though).

acehole
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acehole
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Cutting a person off “mid sentence” is always rude, no matter who does it. The fact that this needs explaining says a lot about your upbringing, and that of your generation as a whole. Why did you wait till mid instead of begin (or even end) sentence?

Being “direct” (in the sense of being honest) and “cutting mid senctence” are two completeely different things. Waiting till mid setence to reject is actually the opposite of being direct. Like i said it’s disrepectful and embarrasing to the opposite party.

What you did is not what your brother advised you to do. Your brother told you to be:
1. direct i.e. be clear from the get go
2. “not to engage in conversation”, because doing so “implies interest”.

Your brothers advise is correct but you didn’t abide by it. You weren’t clear/direct and did engage in convo.

Genie
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Genie
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Ok, so a guy approaches me saying, “nice ass what do I need to do to get into it? My name is (this is where it cut him off and said I’m not interested so don’t want to waste your time). My upbringing taught me that that’s not the kind of guy I want to meet. What should I have done differently

acehole
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acehole
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Let’s have common language here. “Cutting off mid sentence” implies you were engaged in convo.

“What should I have done differently?”

Make your disinterest clear from the very start: ignore or verbally. I you don’t let him finish his introduction as lame as it may be.

With al due respect but your story suggest to me you were attention whoring. Problably you wanted to see wether you could attract his attention to assess you own SMV.

“This after seeing him approach half the women in the bar.”

Before approaching you he already did so with “half the women in the bar”.

The fact that you noticed him (initial interest) approach all these women, prior to coming to you bothered you i.e. 50% of the women present had higher value to him than you.

You rejecting him wasn’t striclty because of lacking interest but it was for the sake of saving yourself of realisation that you’re SMV isn’t as high as you wan’t it to be.

In a way you punched him for confronting you with your value in the marketplace, which is mediocre.

“My upbringing taught me that that’s not the kind of guy I want to meet.”

People, men and women alike are terrified by the idea of rejection. Men generally do not approach if there isn’t an indication of interest by the opposite party, you in this case. Either he was drunk or you gave him the green light to approach (women will generally deny this by the way). For instance by looking at him over an extended period of time…which you own words suggest:

“This after seeing him approach half the women in the bar.”

Genie
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Genie
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He was drunk and loud. I wasn’t watching him, he was noticeable because he was singing loudly and staggering around the bar. I was sat on a bar stool talking to my friend when I turned my head he was sat beside me. I turned my head bc when he sat down he bumped my shoulder so I turned around then he said what he said. I didn’t watch him walk over, wait for him to sit down then talk then cut him off. Perhaps I should of provided the whole story with every detail so you had the full picture before commenting based on half the story. My apologies.

acehole
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acehole
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You don’t have to provide the whole story, but him being drunk is a crucial fact which shouldn’t be left out.

The fact that you didn’t mention it in your initial reaction (also not the second, only after i mentioned it as a possibility) reveals dishonesty on your part.

You’re obviously trying to paint a picture here that will garner as much sympathy as possible.

1st
“Soooo true. I was once called a bitch to my face for cutting a guy off in mid sentence to say I wasn’t interested so didn’t want to waste his time.”

2nd
“Ok, so a guy approaches me saying, “nice ass what do I need to do to get into it? My name is (this is where it cut him off and said I’m not interested so don’t want to waste your time).”

3rd
“He was drunk and loud.”

Good luck sympathy shopping.

Genie
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Genie
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I certainly don’t expect any sympathy from anyone here lol, nor am I seeking it. I’ve cut guys off in mid sentence in the past and would of deserved being called a bitch for doing it, just like you probably did something in the past that justified being called an ‘acehole’ ;). I’ve also wasted guys time in bars and that’s not right either. In this particular case, I don’t feel I deserved to be called a bitch but I wasn’t that bent out of shape about it. I referenced it on this thread in the context of what Roosh wrote about girls not wasting guy’s time in bars and the reply from S.

That’s it. My apologies if that has triggered something for you.

o/
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o/
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Bahaha. A guy that has problems understanding

a clearly laid out standpoint calls out people for sympathy shopping. Just a little hint here, lest you come across as utterly retarded as now, in the future: just because a woman comments on an article to share and exchange her experiences, good or bad, doesn’t automatically make her an attention whore, or whatever other cute names you come up with.

It has always astounded me how the manosphere swarms with people that aren’t half as smart as they think they are.

But hey, you’ve got my sympathy, don’t worry!

Driver
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Driver
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But women do enjoy the “societal standard” of being the one who has to be engaged (and not doing the engaging) – thus facing no rejection at all. This works both ways. Women want equal rights (societal change) but they do not bear the burden of having to approach (at all).

The other side of it, of course, is it depends on the man. A woman could be wrapped up reading a book until Chris Hemsworth (Thor) approaches…you’ll never see a woman set a book down faster in your life.

I say all of this (half laughing) because I’ve been around for a few decades watching this charade known as equality. Women want to retain the best benefits of their past while only gaining the positive benefits of the man.

They want their cake..and eat it, too.

Rafael
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Rafael
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This is a great post by Roosh but I would add that some men are so thirsty that getting any attention from a female keeps then happy even if she has no intention of having sex with him. Male thirst is a large part of why females in The West act the way they do.

Aaron Lennon
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Aaron Lennon
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The amount of time I spend talking to certain girls that I have no sexual interest in, listening to their dribble, I’m not being rude like, but I always think “Get me out of here!” More men (especially wealthy guys with more time on their hands) these days are cutting to the chase and hooking up with hot women on sugar dating websites like tempted.com and whatsyourprice.com

crotch model
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crotch model
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“More men (especially wealthy guys with more time on their hands) these days are cutting to the chase and hooking up with hot women on sugar dating websites liketempted.com and whatsyourprice.com ”

Interesting find.

Chris Brony
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Chris Brony
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Only 30 minutes?

intplayer
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intplayer
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I don’t think this is a useful frame for looking at it, as an overly rational view of the game will significantly lessen your enjoyment of it.

Flakes, bad dates and timewasters are simply a part of the game. Bad results motivate me to grow, learn and do better. Good results do not motivate me as much as losing does. If I don’t approach game from a growth-based mindset, where everything is a learning opportunity, I’ll end up lessening my enjoyment and then of course these experiences would feel like a waste of time. But expecting time wasters to just cease to exist, just because you’re at an advanced or mastery level of game is unrealistic. If every approach would lead to a date, and every date would lead to a bang, game would just become the same thing as fastfood or porn; an easy source of pleasure which will end up depreciating in value because it’s so easy to access.

PicaDulce
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PicaDulce
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I didn’t realize I was being so inconsiderate. I will start telling men “you’re ugly and I will never fuck you, now go away.”

Roosh_V
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Roosh_V
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Thanks. I much prefer such an insult than wasting 30 minutes of club primetime.

Free&Libre
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Free&Libre
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Have you ever considered that many women have been conditioned from birth to be “nice girls”? I don’t consider rudeness to be a very feminine trait.

Roosh_V
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Roosh_V
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I don’t either, but in a club setting I prefer immediately rudeness if a girl doesn’t like me. Coming to the club to be rude to everyone is a different story. If the city is full of cunts all around, that’s a problem.

zayeedah
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zayeedah
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There are at least two problems with this. First, my default personality is polite and friendly and ‘ladylike’, and my entire life’s environment reinforced that. It is extremely difficult for me to be rude just because, and why would I want to learn to?
Second, not all people react gracefully to someone who is rude to them, even if there is a good reason for it.

PicaDulce
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PicaDulce
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Agreed. I don’t like to be rude to anyone. I was raised right. It never occurred to me that every man that talks to me just wants to take me home though. Roosh try sitting at the bar and starting up conversations with everyone. That way girls who aren’t interested can easily walk away. That’s what I do. Plus you might make friends

Nat G
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Nat G
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– girl who rejects the guy quik = bitch
– girl who engage a conversation with the guy but won’t have sex with him = time waste
– girl who has sex with the guy = whore
– girl who will probably have sex with the guy but not on the first day and only if after knowing him to be sure she likes him enough = cock teaser
– girl who is not attractive enough to approach for sex = useless cunt

Don’t expect any behavior to be ok enough for them.

YosarriansRight
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Nice write up, Roosh!

Just view women the same way you’d view children:

They have little to no attention span, can be and usually are moody and are always looking for the next “new, shiny” thing. Then plan accordingly.

Manu
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Manu
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The only girls who will sleep with you are the ones whom you never asked for consent cause that word doesn’t seem like to exist in your dictionary .. Also you are disgrace to mankind or even to men..men who are actually gentleman and good do get women because they respect them unlike you who objectifies or put them into your weird boxes of rapist thoughts .. I am not surprised she was bored of you and tried to give you a huge signal to back off by politely ignoring you while you acted like a chimp or fool ! It looks difficult that you would grow out of your childish teenage thoughts .. Good luck dealing with your childish and illogical rapist endeavors … And you sound sexually frustrated through out your post! And I am done wasting my energy here cause at the end you won’t understand a word that I said here ..

AJ
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AJ
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So some chick talked to you for 30 minutes in a club, decided you were a deuchbag and blew you off. Sounds like YOU wasted 30 minutes of HER time, asshole.

dummy
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dummy
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you describe yourself as a professional clown then rail against a woman using you for entertainment.

trumpetgrrl
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Fuck every one of you limp dick morons. We all know you think like this because women think you’re disgusting. Go fuck each other which is what you really want anyhow.

Gamerstruth
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Gamerstruth
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Roosh, I hear ya! You know what would be great? If you can outline some of the techniques, strategies and approaches you use to cut to the chase without scaring the cat away too soon. A guide on how to make approaching and dating as efficient is something that’s missing. Perhaps an revised edition of bang and day bang? I’d buy it in a snap.

Sam
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Sam
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I wonder how many people on the Julien Blanc hate wagon know the context of the situation and don’t just go off of mainstream media outrage and out of context video clips. I’ve seen much more of his work and he’s not totally what the masses make him out to be. CONTEXT = better understanding.

Cpt_Justice
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Cpt_Justice
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You bring all this on yourself. I hope you have a long life of it.

j
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j
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Roosh,

Did you not waste Anna’s time she invested in you? She was spending her time with you with hopes of a long term relationship, yet the whole time you knew she would be just another notch count. Complete hypocrisy.

zayeedah
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zayeedah
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She honestly could just be courteous and polite. I have never and would never just tell a guy that came up and talked to me to buzz off (unless he was being rude or crazy somehow). I live in the South though, so that is how I was raised, maybe it’s not like that in other places.
It sounds like she was friendly, but not too friendly (you were thinking she might just be shy) and was giving you clear “red lights to escalation” within a reasonable time frame (30 minutes) without being overtly dismissive. A very likely other option here is the opposite of what you assumed, she was just being a polite and courteous (albeit uninterested in a romantic relationship) person! I have personally been in this situation many, many times.

practicalh
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practicalh
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This behavior is commonly known as attention whoring.

LG
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LG
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You’re awful.

Just Tim
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Just Tim
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I just apply The Golden Rule here, just to make a point.

What single moms FAIL to realize is that they’re raising boys that get angry like scorned women.

The_Dude
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The_Dude
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I don’t know about you all, but being in my mid-thirties and being focussed on making the career of my childhood dreams happen, I’ve got close to zero patience with women in my private life. I’m single by choice and happily so. I do miss regular sex sometimes, but not that often. When I do, I do weigh off whether I can be bothered to try and pick up someone somewhere, or whether it isn’t more effective to just go and get what I need quickly from a professional, pay for it, and get back to my mission right afterwards, without anyone trying to waste my time. At my age, my hormones have levelled off enough so I don’t have to buy into women’s bullshit anymore. To me they’re mostly just mildly amusing creatures now. And I don’t particularly care what they get up to, I just know that I am not going to let any one of them waste my time. I’ve pretty much eliminated all female aquaintances from my life (through simple neglect), and whenever I do have something going on with a woman, at the first sign of her being a flake, or otherwise unappreciative of my time, or generally more trouble than it’s worth, I ditch them. I just cannot be bothered to waste my time on women and their nonsense, life’s too short. So I have to disagree with the author of this article in that I just don’t find women and dating, even sex, important enough to be willing to sacrafice significant amounts of time on them. At least at this stage in my life. Sex would be the only motivation, but I find it quite easy to sublimate my sex drive into my work and mission most of the time.

Today I met with a good old friend whose roots are in Latin America and he constantly wants to hit on women. (must be a cultural thing.) Whereever we went, every half-decent looking twenty-something chick we had to check out. Like they don’t get that all the time from all the fools out there anyway, it just felt like the biggest waste of time and energy to me. If I hit it off with a cool girl who I am attracted to, and things naturally progress, on the basis of shared interests of whatever sort, I’ll be glad to pursue it further. But trying to hit on any random chick, just because she’s cute and overall f*ckable ?! I’ve got much better things to do with my time.
That’s just my opinion.

Prez
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Prez
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Why not fight fire with fire. If you sense she is wasting your time for her entertainment. Try and find a way to use her as a pawn to help you get attraction from other girls (Social Proof) ?

Vlynch
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Vlynch
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I chat to guys in bars and don’t think I’m wasting their time as in general, human interaction is fun and yes, it alleviates boredom but that’s kind of the point of all friends, male or female surely? We all hang out with people/our mates as it’s less boring (more fun) than other options at that point in time – that’s universal, not a female quality. If you only see the point of women as being a source of sex then I guess once sex is off the cards you’d see it as pointless, but that reflects on your views on women rather than why women interact with you.

I might not want to have sex with a guy but I can still enjoy the conversation. Talking to someone I don’t find attractive but is interesting is still fun.

Talking to someone I don’t find attractive and who has boring conversation is not fun. When guys approach women solely with the intention of wanting sex, we can kinda tell (eg the complete lack of interest in anything that isn’t en-route to sex) so often it’s hard to muster the enthusiasm to engage fully when all conversational tangents are constantly being shifted towards sexual stuff by the guy. Random/arbitrary chats are often the most interesting, but when the guy stops those chats evolving by controlling the subject and focussing it on sex stuff, it’s not great conversation. Then we’re not intentionally wasting your time, we’re actually bored of you but too polite/non-confrontational to leave.

Ban Islam
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Ban Islam
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The guy who stands for “traditional values”

He wants a woman to fuck with him in no more than an hour.

You are a fucking hypocrite

Vlynch
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Vlynch
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Why is conversing with you after you approached her “wasting your time for her entertainment”?. In this scenario, likely the guy approached her so surely he is wasting her time as much as the other way round?
All she did was continue to talk to you which is polite. Perhaps she was interested in what you were saying. I don’t get why you attribute malicious motives to a girl taking you at face value and having a conversation..
I think Roosh’s annoyance is because he’s spending time that doesn’t result in sex which isn’t fair to blame the girl for -if I approached a guy for sex and he said no, or we just chatted and nothing happened I’d assume I wasn’t what he wanted or hadn’t done enough to convince him otherwise…i.e I was the one who hadn’t been enough..I wouldn’t blame the guy, but here it seems fair game to blame girls for not wanting you. Weird.

sharp
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sharp
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//wouldn’t blame the guy, etc –

While what you say isn’t unreasonable, it’s so easy for girls to say shit like this. Assuming you’re even moderately attractive (and even then…), you could throw a rock in a crowd and hit some dude who’d be delighted to go home with you. Is it any wonder that one wasted interaction doesn’t bother you? Come on, get real.

Sam T
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Sam T
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It is fairly obvious that if you are sitting at a bar, dressed seductively sexy, and a strange man approaches you and offers you a drink that there is a 92% chance that he is interested in having a sexual encounter with you. It is the forum for such an assumption. I don’t understand why you would think conversation is all he is interested in. Yes conversation may be an activity he may engage in and possibly enjoy (as I do) but there is definitely an end game and it usually ends up with him sleeping with you or possibly a later date. If you engage a guy in conversation at the bar and then deny him this end game than you are in fact waiting his time. Strange men aren’t looking for strange women sitting at bars to be “Just Friends” with. They are looking for a sex partner. You have the right to do or be anywhere you want and if you want to sit at the bar and don’t want to sleep with a man or you don’t find him attractive or not your type then let him know early on that you wont sleep with him. Then you wont be waiting his time. I know American women have a tendency to lead men on. Its the only place I have had this experience. I have had women waist my time and even money while keeping me in the friend zone and dating other men without me knowing it. I do not tolerate this anymore so I have learned the hard way.