Women Have Been Tricked Into Living Like Men

The biggest travesty that has happened to women in the past 70 years is not misogyny or sexism, but being put on the same education and work timeline as men in spite of having a completely different biology. Millions of women suffer every day because they’re living lives that were designed and optimized for men.

Most women lose the ability to have children without medical intervention at the age of 40. After that, it gets extremely hard for a woman to naturally conceive, and even if she manages to do so, she is 17 times more likely to transmit birth defects to her child than having conceived at age 20. Even at 35, a woman already sees a huge drop in her fertility.

The culture infects young girls with an obsession on career so that they attend an expensive university and rush to work immediately after graduation, all with the grand design of enslaving them into the rat race during the most fertile period of their lives, sharply reducing the number of children they can have. If a girl is lucky, she may have twenty fertile years starting at age 18, but during that time she’s expected to get a degree, move out of her parent’s home into a “vibrant” big city, establish a career where her skills remain in high demand, fall in love with a man who makes more money than she does, marry him, feel financially secure enough to have a family, and then have her first child. Does this at all sound reasonable to you when her male counterpart has double the time she has? My father had his last child in his 50’s. Can a woman do that?

Let’s assume for a minute that I won’t advocate for traditionalism or make the argument that a woman shouldn’t be able to make life decisions on her own, as I have before. What kind of solution remains that would allow women to pretend to be businessmen while still being able to have children before it gets too late? It is to get married and have children before attending university. If a woman does that, she merely has to wait until her last child enters kindergarten to enroll in whichever brainwashing factory she wants, graduate within four years through mostly day-time study, and then begin working while her children are being brainwashed themselves in public schools.

If we assume that a woman who got married early had her last child at a still pert 26, that means she’d be ready for university at 31 and enter corporate hell at 35. Based on current life expectancy figures, that gives her six more decades to decorate her cubicle and LARP as a businessman.

Right now a woman may be thinking, “But men get a head start in your plan, that’s not fair!” Yeah, well, you’ll live longer than me, which is not fair either. My solution allows women to take advantage of their biology and have children when their body is most ready for it. All that’s required is obtaining the love and commitment of a man who is asked to impregnate a young woman who is family oriented and not a whore. That will not be difficult. In fact, if you fit this profile, send me a full body photo and I may wife you up, but please don’t wait until you’ve sampled numerous penises because then your brain chemistry will have degraded to such an extent that you will sabotage any future relationship that has genuine love from a man who wants to provide for you.

I’m sure you can find a dozen other logistical problems to my plan, especially concerning the economics of having one wage-earner support a family for at least five years, but I assume that the wife will know how to cook, grow basic foods in a garden, sew, and not want to display expensive possessions to internet nobodies on Instagram. The major hurdle is not finding a man willing to wife up a supple young bride, but finding a girl with half her brain still intact after her parents threw her into the mud pit of blue-haired feminist pigs.

If you are a young woman in high school, I advise you to skip out on university, live with your parents, work a basic part-time job to earn money for tasteful makeup and clothing, learn important homemaking skills, and then use the remainder of your free time to securing the love of a man who wants a family. Assuming your standards in men are realistic (hah!), it won’t take you more than a year to find a worthy contender, because what man wouldn’t want to lay down roots with such a family-oriented woman?

As a man who has spent only six years working in a corporate career, one that was actually somewhat interesting, I can guarantee that any job a woman takes will cause more damage to her happiness than not. Women should look at all the men who are quitting the rat race to become location independent and ask themselves why they are being convinced to participate in a rigged game that increasing numbers of intelligent men want nothing to do with. Ladies: you’re not missing out on delaying your career for a few years. It’s better to focus first on creating a family first, while you still can.

Read Next: Why Women Shouldn’t Work

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anon1
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As shitty as iceland is for many well articulated reasons they do atleast have a culture that has women have kids early. The problem is, its usually single mothers and not very traditionalist in terms of child rearing.

Titan000
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When daycare and welfare is gone. I predict the birthrates to be restricted to intact patriarchal families.

Vegard Johansen
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Iceland is blessed with it`s geographical location.(As long as you avoid to much seismic activity.) So you can afford to be politically correct in regards to immigration and so on, but still have little to no immigration and keep you`re welfare State intact.
Must be hard to live in a feminist madhouse though:)

Anti-Gnostic
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So nation whose history is bound up with its harsh environment, with its Viking heritage and its language, with little changed from its roots in Old Norse…is shitty.

Wow, just wow.

Titan000, I predict that daycare and welfare will remain, and birthrates will NOT be restricted to intact patriarchal families.

anon1
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>Wow, just wow.

stop trying to be a concern troll

Anti-Gnostic
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There is no such thing as a “concern troll”. I made an observation.

ammag
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Why did you have to snark-deuce up a perfectly nice subthread? Gammas, I literally can’t even.

I know jack shit about Iceland, but, despite visions of longships and danegeld and massive battleaxes of yore, contemporary nordic dudes seem to have perfected the art of soyboi political ballessness.

They are megacucks.

As a rule, whenever the constituency is female, you can count on feminist wealth transfer (welfare, single mother benefit schemes, whatever) being the very last thing to go.

Massive in-group preference plus natural female solipsism and an inclination for “equitable” compulsory wealth redistribution plus the removal of any form of countervailing masculine social pressure (“misogyny! patriarchy!”) equals… you will starve before Ashlyn loses her right to subsidized birth control.

Anti-Gnostic
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Some jackanape makes an idiot comment about Iceland. I set him straight. Then you come on in strong like a white knight to the rescue. And you have the gall to call me gamma.

“Megacucks”

What an overly used, utterly meaningless term.

“Massive in-group preference plus natural female solipsism and an inclination for “equitable” compulsory wealth redistribution plus the removal of any form of countervailing masculine social pressure…”

I will admit, confirmation bias and subjectivity are your strong suits.

Da Mac
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And your argument is…?

Anti-Gnostic
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That you have trouble following along.

Edward Easterling
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Okay!
So when does she get to ride the carousel? When does she get that corporate job and be “strong and independent?”
This isn’t fair to women at all.
Wait to start work at 35?
Look at all those productive years she lost, being supportive to a man!
But I have known several women who played the game differently and thrived. Here’s a page from their playbook.
Get pregnant (married or single, doesn’t matter). Get a divorce, unless single, and get child support (single or divorced).
Government pays for her to go to college, junior college, or trade skill (where she learns administrative and clerical skills).
She gets an easy job that pays very well and has good benefits. Plus child support. Plus government assistance. Plus a new boyfriend when she gets bored with the current one.
Yeah!
And the courts help with child support. And the government helps her enter a higher income bracket. And she shows the world that she’s “strong and independent.”
I like this article Roosh. And I like those books of mine you wrote. Only, I don’t see how or why a young, attractive woman would try to abide by the suggestion this article offers.
But it is a great attempt.

Columbiad
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“This isn’t fair to women at all.”

Who cares?

Edward Easterling
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“Who cares?”

Some of my statements here are meant to be humorous. Sarcastic.
Of course, I don’t care.

Fitness2569
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That was clear sarcasm

Edward Easterling
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I’m glad you get it. And it pained me to write it.
But for many a woman in USA, there lies a clear path to success. I didn’t make this up. A girl told me this about 12 years ago. She was married and didn’t really get along with other females very well.
But what is real is I have five books by Roosh. And I do need to read them again. But I like what he writes. His blog and his books. Hell, even the videos and podcasts.

Tom Dane
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You need to read and understand comments before you reply

Hera Fernando
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“The Gender Inequality Of Suicide: Why Are Men At Such High Risk?”

Who cares?

Ravi Macho
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The worst thing is, they still claim they are somehow “equal” to MEN !!

Anti-Gnostic
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Not really.

The War At Home
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Very good points. But there’s no such thing as a ‘good paying job’ when that job only involves ‘administrative and clerical skills’. Unless she works for a small business and is fucking the boss or something. But at that point shes basically a whore. Of course the welfare state makes up for her lack of income. All paid for with the taxes of hard working men, forced to involuntarily support her, that don’t even get a whiff of pussy in exchange.

Hera Fernando
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‘All paid for with the taxes of hard working men’ – as if women don’t pay taxes.

The War At Home
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As a group men pay more taxes then women. As a group women collect more government benefits than men. For example 90% of welfare recipients are single mothers. They also comprise 95% of alimony recipients, 94% of child support recipients. In general government programs act as a giant non-consensual wealth transfer from men to women.

Hera Fernando
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To be honest, women aren’t the only parents. In cases where dead beat dads don’t pay their fair share, it is logical to expect the single mothers to receive benefits for their children.

The War At Home
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It depends. Did the dad agree to having children or was it a case or reproductive fraud? Did he agree to support the children in the case things didn’t work out? How much did he agree to pay, and what terms did he agree to? Why should unrelated 3rd parties be forced to pay for the choices of irresponsible parents?!

I’d rather abolish government control in the personal lives of families all together, and promote a system of volunteerism. A system in which couples could voluntarily create legally enforceable contracts relevant to their unique: needs, wants, and situations. Such a system would reduce fraud, promote fairness, and promote stable families as well as social cohesion.

Aeronaut
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That plan will have a big impact on the kids. Kids need a stable anchor at home when they’re young. A mom that’s perusing an education isn’t devoting her efforts to the home. I’ve said many times that it’s all about us till the moment we decide to have kids. The reason is the kids are the only one’s in the equation that don’t have a say in the matter. They’re brought into consciousness by the whims of–us. Once those souls are drug out of whatever holding place they’re in, we’re assuming the responsibility to do our best to give them a decent life.

My wife and I were talking about the whole career thing the other day. We’re at that point. Both kids are in college, I’m making good money, all the sudden we have a lot of free time on her hands and a lot of money. She keeps talking about going to work doing something. Before we had kids, she worked in emergency services. She had a couple of serious jobs so she’s no dummy. After 21 years of raising kids I told her to enjoy her retirement. She said she want’s to contribute to at least our vacation fund.

I think most women want their own career because they think it gives them control over the relationship. In other words, a lot of them go into it thinking if it doesn’t work out, they’ll divorce, take the man for all they have and start over. That means they aren’t 100% committed to making the marriage work. All the more reason to stay away from women who want that career.

Anonymous
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“I think most women want their own career because they think it gives them control over the relationship.”

It possibly can’t be because they want control over their own lives instead of being at the mercy of other people and their whims. It absolutely can’t be them having personal interests, a vocation, a desire to do something as Rooshv knows all women are soulless and devoid of other desires than home-making and babies. It must be because they think it gives them control over the relationship, and we all know a woman having any control in a relationship is doom of civilization. Luckily the muslim world and third world countries still have this right, those pesky feminism-brainwashed little girls occasionally try to get an education even at the risk of their own lives but it’s nothing an even more oppressive regime or terrorist groups couldn’t solve. We know what is best for women and wish to control their lives, because we support liberty!

The people on this website really f***ing frighten me. It seems like the people here live in some kind of parallel reality…

Aeronaut
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And if you were a car, you’d have a toggle switch for a throttle. People like you know either 100% or 0%, nothing in between.

Women need to make a choice. Either they want a career or they want to make a good home for their family. For every woman that tells you they can have it all, I’ll show you a woman that sucked at one–or the other–or both. She’s shorting someone, either her co-workers, her kids or her family.

What we’re trying to do here is simply try and enlighten guys who’ve either been brainwashed or lack the critical thinking skills so they don’t think they have to settle for some overbearing career chaser who’ll make their lives miserable.

If thinking, contrary to the new social standard scares you, perhaps you should stay in the kitchen where you can be sheltered from such wrong thinking and where you’ll probably do some of your best, most fulfilling work.

GRock
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“For every woman that tells you they can have it all, I’ll show you a woman that sucked at one–or the other–or both. She’s shorting someone, either her co-workers, her kids or her family.” << precisely what Anon pretends doesn't exist. Having cake and eating too more often that not winds up tasting like shit-salad and doesn't work. For the few it does work for, beneath the facade, you'll find a facetious POS at the core.

This is precisely what my Ex has done to our daughter. She's done "OK" in her career, but screws over her kid every day, and frankly kind of half-asses her career. I remember an argument we had before we split where I told her; "You think 'attempting' ten things at once in life and half-assing all of them makes you a success in the name of 'business,' it doesn't, it makes you a person who consistently bites off more than you can chew, constantly makes excuses, blames others, and damages everything you touch with your half-assed ways, but go ahead, make that your life, I want no part of it."

Aeronaut
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Boy, ain’t that the truth! I don’t think there is such thing as a Renaissance woman.

Aeronaut
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Boy, ain’t that the truth! I don’t think there is such thing as a Renaissance woman.

Ravi Macho
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“it makes you a PERSON who consistently BITES off MORE than you can CHEW, constantly makes EXCUSES, BLAMES others, and DAMAGES everything you TOUCH with your half-assed WAYS, but go ahead, make that your life, I want NO PART of it.”

I am seriously considering to ENGRAVE the above words !

Kim John Markel
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Our enlightened workplace policies in California make it possible for these brave, strong, independent heroines Who Have It All to reveal their pregnancies to employers in the third month of employment, then take off 12-20 weeks, and then “return” to part-time for 3 to 7 years, shifting the workplace burden of their choices to childless or senior co-workers so they can spend more time with the kids. Then one day they re-appear and expect all to be restored as if nothing happened. What a wonderful world.

Anti-Gnostic
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“Women need to make a choice. Either they want a career or they want to make a good home for their family. For every woman that tells you they can have it all, I’ll show you a woman that sucked at one–or the other–or both. She’s shorting someone, either her co-workers, her kids or her family.”

Men and women who have kids can make the choice themselves.

Looking for Zion
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Well said, and clearly laid out. Sadly my wife is an example of this. Plus, the more demanding and taxing the work is, the less a woman has to give at home. Do I wish it weren’t true? Yes. But unlike most American women I know when to let go of illusions and recognize the reality.

Annoyed with men
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The problem with all that ya’ll say about women vs career in this day in time you A) have men to lazy and self centered that don’t want to settle down and have a family or B) they do but it takes 2 people income to make a home run smoothly which means she needs a job. No matter how much she may want to stay at home with the kids. C) the man is good at supporting but then decides he want his cake and eat it to by cheating. So then what she to do stay with a man who wants to screw around because she depends souly on him to be able to make it. Say what you will. I did get married young spent years with a man that cheated I had a job to help us and quiet when he wanted me to only to end up with a lying cheating man. No we didn’t have kids and yes I let him take the lead and stood by him. But before you shoot your mouth off on a woman and careers first ask yourself where men screwed up and made it where she has to support herself and how ya’ll contributed to it!!!!!!!

GRock
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If you’re dating out of your league and get knocked up, certainly. But wait, the low grade woman the man accidentally impregnates AFTER the bitch says she’s on the pill doesn’t count right? And then she decides to have it and thinks shit’s gonna work out right? How fucking many kids of this exact scenario do we know have walking this Earth as video-game-God adult-aged children? Millions.

Samseau
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“It possibly can’t be because they want control over their own lives instead of being at the mercy of other people and their whims.”

Newsflash, you selfish woman:

Being a mother means you will be at the mercy of other people, namely your children and husband. If you prefer independence (i.e. extinction), go the whore route or get a career.

Copperhead Joe
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It’s interesting that a couple of you guys assume Anonymous is a woman. Not saying this person isn’t a woman; that might be most likely now that you mention it, but I thought leftist male on the first reading. I read it again, and there isn’t a word in there that would be unusual in the facebook posts of some of the now middle aged males I went to high school with.

Dirk Diggler
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Boomers, I’m guessing? Many of them are the biggest white knight cucks you’ll find.

Copperhead Joe
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No, class of ’87. I’m not saying most are like that, just that they are out there, and they speak in sarcasm like Anonymous (not that women don’t). Also more likely for a white knight cuck to use words like civilization and regime than a woman.

Da Mac
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Yours is an alternate viewpoint I am in full agreement with (as far as I can tell), with regard to women having control over their own lives. I agree with you that many, even most, of the men here unfortunately go too far.
I think reasonable women also have a problem when everything becomes legislation in the interest of maintaining that women and men are the same. It is this last wave of feminism with power dykes in the government that concerns the moderate citizenry, both male and female.
I agree with Roosh in earlier discussions that it is (at least somewhat) sponsored by the elite and their government to keep more of the slaves working, and working longer.

GRock
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Great observation. Side note: this whole “Once you have kids it’s all about them.” attitude…is a prevailing attitude among modern women with kids, married or not. It’s complete bullshit. Growing up, while our parents did “stuff” for us, entirely abandoning their own lives for us outside of work and providership, just because, well, we existed….. was NEVER an attitude ANY parents I knew had.

It serves one purpose, to give modern women that Wonder Woman cape they feel they should adorn themselves with. So for the ones trying single parenting, they’re already ruining society via sheltered kids upbringing lacking the common sense of male influence, yet, the same exact thing is occurring within married families with kids as well. Go ahead, get your kids into sports, have them join some clubs, etc., but revolving your entire existence around them makes for some weak-ass young adults that can only operate in a society where all “experiences” are prepared for them, and in fields that are institutionally protected like healthcare, higher ed, gov’t work, etc. It makes book-smart, life-stupid adults. And many 20 & 30 somethings alive now are a result of that.

I recall some of my friends’ parents that I highly respected, as well as my own dad. They did a lot for their kids, but we were along for the ride. It’s how true rote-learning happens.

The trick is two-fold: Women have been tricked into living like men, but men have been tricked into believing women are more valuable living like men. I can’t imagine the efficacy and the resultant outcome I may have seen in my life had I had a truly supportive (now baby momma getting child support enslavement taxation of my life) wife, and the quality upbringing and development my daughter would have had. What’s sad, is the patriarch of her side of the family, pushed this bullshit on her. The power of a beta leading an entire family is insanely destructive.

Anti-Gnostic
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“I can’t imagine the efficacy and the resultant outcome I may have seen in my life had I had a truly supportive (now baby momma getting child support enslavement taxation of my life) wife, and the quality upbringing and development my daughter would have had.”

It never ceases to amaze me how men and women, as a result of horrific break-up in their marriage, end up being overdramatic.

GRock
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Yea, hijacking someone’s future and enslaving them through child support while shit canning their kid’s development just because the law supports it is being over dramatic. Truth is like poetry, no one wants to hear it.

Anti-Gnostic
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Bitterness is your bitch.

Vice
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Not an argument.

Anti-Gnostic
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It’s called effective rhetoric, Vox Day style.

GRock
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It’s called your weak, your style. Throw cheap jabs then runs away until simply annihilated by truth.

Anti-Gnostic
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Dude, you are the one defending filth, not I. Grow up.

kramerika
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stinker!

skillett
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You can do all the America hating you want. As a citizen of the US of A and a veteran, I can tell you right now.

We are going to hand in there and hang tough. We defeated communism, NAZISM, and every other devil.

And America will defeat the enemies of liberty like you and your ilk !

Da Mac
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It should start with its government…

skillett
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I have been reading your posts. You just hate America !

Da Mac
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Can anyone with a clue blame him?

john mcginnis
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A whole host of reasons why a woman might pursue a business interest but probably the most important one is — ‘just in case’. Said bread winner could keel over dead tomorrow then what? A backup plan is a rational thought.

Nor is this nothing new. If you roll back the clock many ages ago, most wives of the time assisted in the family business. Keeping the books, paying the bills, etc. In which case they were already a ‘businesswoman’ by family right.

GRock
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Risk aversion occurs using either tactic. The concept as you imply is putting all the financial eggs in one basket (the man’s), is risky. Conversely, raising children improperly is similarly risky, but that pain doesn’t set in as quick as unfeedable mouths, but rather, a nightmare of ghettoness when the kids begin screwing up their lives as young adults. Ask yourself then; “was careerism from both parents really worth it after all?” Grandma was intended to be an “aged” title. I know plenty of wealthy careered financially stable families where the failure of spending vital time during key development years with their kids has resulted in what I call “trailer trash millionaires.” Early 40s grandmothers drinking Mojitos while watching babies for their babies all day. That’s epic failure, not success.

Many of the strongest small businesses I know typically involve the wife in some vital role as you state. Yet, some of the shadiest businesses I’ve encountered during my current 18+ year experience in B2B sales, are precisely, married couples who’re both pieces of shit, who collectively fuck over associated stake holders, to get ahead in life. Moreover, the very worst businesses I’ve worked with involve a family business being run by a divorcee. My tendency is to always step way back and look at the biggest picture I can fathom to focus my life’s targets.

john mcginnis
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“Conversely, raising children improperly is similarly risky, but that
pain doesn’t set in as quick as unfeedable mouths, but rather, a
nightmare of ghettoness when the kids begin screwing up their lives as
young adults”

That is the Garbage In -> Garbage Out principle. It does not always work out that way for a percentage of the spawn. But surprisingly raising children can be less than a monumental task if the parent is one who can lead by example. I have raised both a son and daughter that way and both have become productive adults.

GRock
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Sometimes there’s no choice. Gratefully some of us can pull it off.. despite both parents being accountable, and more often than not just one practicing responsibility.

In short, most split households occur because 1 adult-aged person is a child sill, and immature in at least 1 vital area. I call it the lowest common denominator role of modern women, Career, financial stability, and other outwardly obvious areas of achievement in check, but completely shit-can raising their kid properly, thus, it’s all up to the dad to bring any stability to the kid’s future headed into adulthood.

Lisa
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But then, a woman with a high-income career may not get much, if anything, in a divorce settlement. In fact, the MAN may come out ahead. (See: Cernovich.)

GRock
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Which in the grand scheme of female hypergamy, is a hilarious backfire. Men don’t cherry pick like women unless in their minds they’re women themselves.. essentially she married a gay man. Men rarely cherry pick both sides, women do it constantly. A woman who marries a bitch-level man and gets taken like that truly got played by her own support system. The woman, might be a dyke at heart, marrying a man capable of that. Thus, additionally, why I consider all lawyers -either gender- bitches.

Tali
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I agree with your points there, but I wold argue that they apply to boys/men as much as they apply to girls/women. The whole school->university->”career” path that kids are put on, hurts both boys and girls, although in somewhat different ways. All of it is just to create more servants for “the system”, happy to work for whatever rewards those in power offer them.

Samseau
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Agreed. School isn’t for all boys. Boys who’d rather work should be allowed into an apprenticeship early on to learn a trade.

Tali
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It’s not even about “not for all boys”… If they’re not academically-minded, they’d be better off learning a trade like you said, and if they are academically-minded they’d still be better off getting an internship with a business and learning whatever skills are relevant there (and perhaps take some online classes to round up their education). There’s practically no kids who are not wasting their time through the current system… It hurts girls because they’re losing valuable reproductive years, and it hurts guys because it takes them much longer to reach a point of financial stability and ability to provide for a family (and many of them convince themselves that they don’t even want the financial burden of a wife and kids by that point…).

Anti-Gnostic
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Life is not all about one’s “reproductive years”, as evident by the pump and dump lifestyles of PUA’s.

Tali
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Your life can be about whatever you want it to be… It’s mostly a matter of what you want (or don’t want) to leave behind.

Steve
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Steve
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Janet Jackson gave birth at 50.

Bavieca
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An Indian woman gave birth at 70.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/woman-in-her-70s-may-be-oldest-ever-to-give-birth/

It’s not that hard for post-wall women to get sperm from sperm banks and give birth afterwards, finding an alpha man who’d be willing to ejaculate inside her and then bankroll her for life is.

Steve
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Steve
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Carrie Bradshaw from Sex in the City “I’m only 37, I’m not ready to settle down yet”

Marshallaw
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Marshallaw
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After taking more Dick than a punk in San Quentin….

Hubert Cumberdale
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I’d be equally disgusted with that remark if she was 32.

Star Pooper
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I am currently a FWB with a 32 year old woman. Would you elaborate on that, Mr. Cumberdale? I am really interested in your viewpoint.

Eduardo Baker
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Eduardo Baker
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Sorry, but fascist democrats will never accept this as it would take away the tax revenue of a 2 income family. The children will have a mom at home to care for them and educate them, which means they will not be attending government run daycare centers to brainwash them. Never will this happen because people are to stupid to understand how they have been conned.

Hubert Cumberdale
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Hubert Cumberdale
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Are daycare centers teaching 3 year olds to hate whitey now? (Shows children crude picture of white man in business suit) “This is the person who is going to hold you back in life and take away your toys!”

john mcginnis
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john mcginnis
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Close. Watch K12. Johnny comes home with a sheet from the teacher. It lists all the supplies needed. Parental unit dutifully acquires those items on the list. Johnny shows up beaming ‘I have my stuff’. Teacher takes all the supplies and distributes them throughout the class. ‘We have to share, not everyone can buy those items’ the teacher intones. It does not register with Johnny that he has just been mugged.

GRock
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GRock
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Pure evidence as stated. Shouldn’t life have gotten easier, albeit better all around, with the advent of so much technology and 2 incomes of career minded “professional” adults? Yup, should have, but guess what? In nearly all cases it just means you signed on for way more than you agreed to. 60-70 hours instead of 35-40 hours of work. And we’ve – among other definitions – changed the meaning of “professional.”

Many people adorned in business dress, who’re just actors, not professionals. Just monkey suit wearers with worthless degrees 3-5% of the formal knowledge and training for which (from degrees, etc.) is even utilized when paying off college debt high enough to pay off a first home with. Don’t even get me started on tax rates.

Maximus Decimus Meridius
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The solution requires a complete political revolution and take over of the government. The last man to try and do that… did not work out well for him. More and more, I am beginning to believe The West is too far gone to save. It’s like trying to stop a derailed freight train with the manufacturers brakes. We are off the tracks… There is no fix until after the crash. I absolutely HATE to sound so defeatist… but so too did many on the Titanic. What is the lifeboat strategy for The West? Discuss.

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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Few American men make reference to “The West”. That is reserved for the Alt Right, MGTOW, and the manosphere. It is an outdated and antiquated concept. It had its run.

skillett
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skillett
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THE WEST IS THE BEST !!!

John Sharma
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John Sharma
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Of course they do, more now than ever, the silent majority not so silent any more. “Few” meaning enough to win elections.

But u can substitute ‘the west’ for ‘feminized’ to encompass japan, south korea and india as well. Any collapsing, unsustainable, declining marriage and birth rate, highly civilized and cultured country full of Marxes useful idiots whose religion is hedonism, counter to patriarchal Russia, China, Iran and Islam. Yeah the west did have a good run, but whatever areas left are not radioactive will lose the 5 years maternity leave and abortion on demand, either through the delographic avalanche to Sharia, or loss of reserve currency and spending on social engineering.

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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A lot of words you used, but little sense made.

John Sharma
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John Sharma
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I will dumb it down step by step for you, so u cant pretend not to understand.

Leftists often say ‘nobody takes conservatives seriously’. That is nobody in their own bubble does, as clearly enough people do take them seriously to vote them into govt at the state and federal levels. Your claim that few american men speak of ‘The West’ falls under the same in group bias error. Wheras your claim is that there were previously at an unspecified period American Men speaking of ‘The West’ , but now most do not, the reverse is true. There is more talk than ever in my life by American Men with concern to what they call Western civilization, as they only now realize it is economically collapsing and under threat by demographic replacement.
In the red states and rural areas of blue states, a smug sense of security in shared values could similarly lead one to say few american men use the words ‘white priviledge, or male priviledge’, when the reality is their liberal counterparts recite it as a mantra.

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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Talk about group bias error. There is more talk than ever in your life about the West by American men…who are part of your in group. Why? Internet and Twitter. However, that group has always existed. It appears larger because of exposure to new people who share those interests. That is, people had been isolated from sharing this love affair with the West outside of their locality. The numbers remain the same, it’s just that the access has increased.

The fact remains that few American men today are clamoring for a return to Western Civilization.
Unfortunately, demographic replacement is a feature, not a bug, when it comes to human migration. More power to you if you harken back to those “good times”.

John Sharma
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John Sharma
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It has nothing to do with me. I referred to everyone who demanded a wall, hardly my in group, im brown skinned. As for twitter etc, i dont have an account but was accosted by very impassioned motorcycle riding war veteran l guys at the bar last friday night, telling me all thats wrong with the country. I dont care about their concerns, even if they got all they want, they are steadily going extinct by birth rate, wheras even though i was born here Ive fathered 3, gasp, mixed race children. We are that demographic replacement, but we are not the end of western civilization, we do the exact same things, just use less zinc cream and more spices. Radical Feminism is the creation of the western world, thats their cancer, so they can look in the mirror. Or they can compete with china by working for even less than them to also subsidize paid maternity leave for their 6 figure salary managers.

Freddy
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Freddy
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What do you think of fertility companies improving IVF techniques? The CEO of prelude claims theres a tech revolution that will allow women to give birth to healthy babies well into their 40s.

Ravi Macho
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Ravi Macho
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“tech revolution” by MEN.

Vegard Johansen
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Vegard Johansen
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What`s natural for the human female is to conceive pretty much immediately after menarche.(first puberty) So within the age range of 15-20 would be the norm through most of human history, particularly prior to civilization.

Now, all organism must have a certain level off mutations to their genome in order to be able to adapt to a changing environment.
-To few mutations, coupled with rapid change in the environment equals extinction.
-To many mutations equals birth defects, disease, but also just generally “weaker” genetics, leading to a poor functioning organism that is unlikely to reproduce.

So when a women conceives at say 37, even though the child does not have down`s syndrom er equivalent, it does not mean they are healthy.
They might be prone to mental disorders that show up later in life, or maybe just be a bit slower, or have several other nagging health issues they would not have otherwise, had they been born to a younger mother. This is the grim reality.

I really believe it`s paramount to conceive children with a women that is no older than 25, and certainly not 30 pluss.
Men`s age seem to matter less,(within reason) as long as you`re a non-smoker, excessive drinker etc. And generally eat healthy. (avoid sugar, flour, seed oils as much as possible.)

GRock
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GRock
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I’m getting seriously sick of people hoisting up Downs and Autistic kids like we should be celebrating this! While I do feel there could be an environmental component, vaccines, chemicals, what have you, the VAST majority are kids born past female conception age of 33-35. Well bitches, you asked for it, the kid with developmental disabilities… didn’t ya? Riiiight. All the warnings and information are plastered in gyno offices and internet. I put it up there with planned assault in the form of procreated child abuse. “Here, let me deny scientific proof, plan on having kids late into my 30s, then seek support for my genetically mutated kid.” So tell me again, why we should propel women into positions of great authority when this, the very nurturers (traditionally), will knowing roll the dice on the species’ genetic stability? Clearly this is not the judgment utility we need running anything important on the planet. Derp.

Vegard Johansen
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Vegard Johansen
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I agree it`s really child abuse in it`s worst thinkable form.
I mean, what is slapping a child on occasion, compared to a life in utter misery with say schizophrenia?

I also agree there are other factors, and I mentioned a few like smoking, alcohol, poor diet and so on, but by far the most important is maternal age.

But who should you blame, the mother`s themselves, or feminism and the unnatural norms it created?

GRock
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GRock
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AT this exact point in time, I’d say it’s about 50/20/30 split being the mothers themselves, the indoctrinated influence of feminism, and the legal system. Some here would argue, men are at fault equally, or more, but it’s technically beyond the point of indoctrination. Feminism is literally legislated heavily into law now, and men allowed this to happen many argue. Conversely, the most valuable of men realized the obvious a long ass time ago, voting doesn’t work. Bitching in groups and petitions and protesting doesn’t work either. Contact my local representative? For what? To waste my time. That’s what.

What gets women off now is being unreasonable, and often impossible. The distinct feminist thought strain driving this is 1) men made the system, 2) men mansplain their version of logic, 3) nothing associated with men, be it math, or science matters anymore because as an empowered women, I’m insulated from it all.

Give that person the keys to biological and social advancement in a legally insular format and IMHO you really have to sit back from a far distance and let it backfire miserably until intervention becomes at least safe to attempt. Many red-pilled men who visit this site feel the greatest frustration in finally actualizing that this will take tremendous time. It may act much like a business cycle, in this case a massive social cycle, or in the country’s case an empire’s cycle. But are empires, or societies, or businesses ever quite the same after they fall too far?

Unreasonable and impossible gets you far greater net results in the 1-10 year future, but always, leaves a gigantic void during the 11-30 year area. Ask that 40yo mom now with the 3yo autistic or downs child what life will be like when she’s 60 and this person is an adult still living at home, constantly needing help, while at 60, she’s starting to experience health issues of a senior citizen! These women will break down miserably and at 60 I sure as hell won’t be there to help save them. I would have, but they shit on men all the way through the stages of cock carousel, liberal college, career planning, safe space HR jobs, family planning, divorce & family court, and elitist pawnhood. We didn’t give ’em the keys, they stole the keys with a hoist squad and crashed the car so to speak.

Vegard Johansen
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Vegard Johansen
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I agree on everything here, it`s just a matter off letting the system collapse and then start over. You can`t reform it after it`s broken.

In the case off the US I think the collapse will come in the form of a sovereign debt crisis, that will most likely lead to hyperinflation and the dollar becoming worthless.
(Buy gold and silver while you can:)
I don`t know how it will play out precisely of course, but it will mean the end of welfare and (mostly) female debt financed consumption for sure.

If you look around the world you will notice that feminism is a trait off affluent countries only. So when the US ceases to be affluent, which I`m 100 percent convinced will happen in not to long, you will have the opportunity to start over hopefully.
Basically Feminism-Socialism etc. are stupid luxuries that only wealthy nations can afford, and with Spengler`s theories in mind, it`s and indication that a civilization is in it`s dying `winter` phase, and will soon collapse to be reborn as something new.

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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“What`s natural for the human female is to conceive pretty much immediately after menarche.(first puberty) So within the age range of 15-20 would be the norm through most of human history, particularly prior to civilization.”

And considering we have civilization, this norm is out the window.

“I really believe it`s paramount to conceive children with a women that is no older than 25, and certainly not 30 pluss.”

Desirable. Preferential. But not paramount.

” So tell me again, why we should propel women into positions of great authority when this, the very nurturers (traditionally), will knowingly roll the dice on the species’ genetic stability?”

Because as Steve Sailer has been talking about, we are on the verge of great discoveries when it comes to genetics. In the future, we will be able to create designer babies.

“Many red-pilled men who visit this site feel the greatest frustration in finally actualizing that this will take tremendous time.”

Highly doubtful that this scenario becomes a reality.

“I agree on everything here, it`s just a matter off letting the system collapse and then start over.”

Millions of men and women will fight to keep “the system” going, thank you very little.

“I would have, but they shit on men all the way through the stages of cock carousel, liberal college, career planning, safe space HR jobs, family planning, divorce & family court, and elitist pawnhood.”

Son, bitterness ain’t no way to live.

Vegard Johansen
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Vegard Johansen
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-I said particularly after civilization, but the norm was, and still is in many societies, to have children when you`re young. But more importantly, biology does not care about human culture. Older mother`s harm their children, independent of cultural norms.

-How can having children that does not have serious health problems, not be paramount?

” So tell me again, why we should propel women into positions of great authority when this, the very nurturers (traditionally), will knowingly roll the dice on the species’ genetic stability?”

“Many red-pilled men who visit this site feel the greatest frustration in finally actualizing that this will take tremendous time.”

“I would have, but they shit on men all the way through the stages of cock carousel, liberal college, career planning, safe space HR jobs, family planning, divorce & family court, and elitist pawnhood.”

-The above 3 are not my comments!

-Keeping a cruel system going is not a virtue, it`s just being a stupid slave. And it will make no difference either way. History shows that all empires come to and end, (if you consider the US to be an empire…I do.)
It`s not that I want this to happen, but I think it`s inevitable at this stage.
As I said in a previous comment I think the US is in the `winter` stage of it`s existence as an empire, and will soon collapse and remerge as something else. I`m not so sure their be many Europeans along for the ride though.

GRock
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GRock
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Your prerogative. When I hold my hand to fire and get burned, I don’t go back doing the same expecting a different outcome. It doesn’t make the fire less harmful. I can try a different color of flame, maybe a blue one won’t burn up close, but will burn even worse from afar. If the attitude is women don’t owe society anything, in some misconstrued egalitarian sense, then men, the very creators of virtually all aspects of civilization reserve the right to cash in their chips and control-alt-delete the biggest problems.

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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Assuming that women generally burn men. You are arguing from a false premise.

“then men, the very creators of virtually all aspects of civilization reserve the right to cash in their chips and control-alt-delete the biggest problems.”

Assuming that these creators generally agree about the nature of the problems. Moreover, men and women create civilization, just in different ways.

GRock
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GRock
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“sovereign debt crisis” – astute observation. The growing monster no one wants to admit to. Man, if the subprime crash leading to banking crash wasn’t an enormous locate-point-indicator mapping this crisis, I don’t know what was.

Vegard Johansen
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Vegard Johansen
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Yeah, ironically the dollar was sort of saved by the crash, since investors still saw the dollar as a safe haven.
But the Fed never increased rates substantially as probably many had hoped, so the question is really what will happen when the next crisis occurs. Will people still see the dollar as the best option, or will they look to other assets, like gold, silver, or maybe other currencies like the Yuan.

With Trump now working with the democrats to raise, and maybe even repeal the debt ceiling all together, it`s seems the sky is the limit on inflation.
At some point the lenders (bond holders) and investors must realize that the US Government has no intention of ever paying it`s debt. And if that happens it`s all over.

John Sharma
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John Sharma
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Totally agree with you, and i have copied part of your post to show the mother of my own autistic son exactly what i try to tell her the future holds if we don’t raise him together.
On collapse and return to the natural order, losing the war we want to start, or losing reserve currency via de dorrarizing and SDR replacement would do it and those are not far off.

GRock
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GRock
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These are shaky times John, but not to be scared of. Any person with a disability will need easily double, if not quadruple the attention into full adulthood, where they could be partially or fully self-reliant and functional hopefully. I learned from my friend’s brother who is one of the most extreme cases of schizophrenia in our area, while lifting weights in his garage, the reason the term “gifted” truly does apply and not just a “soft” term for disability. I surmised in his world he was an absolute genius, it’s just that we can’t understand the obscurity of their thoughts, otherwise it may fear us, that in fact, he’s a complete savant level genius. The epiphanies I had while talking for hours with him as I lifted were fucking priceless man, and I’m not just saying that to pad your situation man.

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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There isn’t going to be this “collapse and return to the natural order”. Perhaps a collapse, but that does not mean things will revert back to dominant Christian-based patriarchal society.

John Sharma
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John Sharma
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Christianity is optional.

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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Christianity is mandatory for those individuals who seek to preserve the West. It is a feature, not a bug.

John Sharma
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John Sharma
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People who want to preserve the West has zip to do with à collapse and return to the natural patriarchal order, with or without christianity in any particular locale. That is something that exists across all continents and long prior to christianity, anywhere, anytime the state does not artificially enforce feminism.

cyberjacques
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cyberjacques
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This elusive creature, described here as a “woman”, is extinct. They don’t exist anymore. Now we’re left with just females, disgusting vapid harpies that are content to live as parasites feeding off men and the civilization that we have created, and that they are hell-bent on destroying.

SomeRandomFellow
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SomeRandomFellow
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THOTS. Crush them immediately

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHam0IdF-F0

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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“This elusive creature, described here as a “woman”, is extinct. They don’t exist anymore. Now we’re left with just females, disgusting vapid harpies that are content to live as parasites feeding off men and the civilization that we have created, and that they are hell-bent on destroying.”

Clearly, you are delusional.

Take The Red Pill
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Take The Red Pill
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No, he has cast off his delusions and is seeing clearly.

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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Apparently I triggered you to come to his defense, white knight style.

Marshallaw
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Marshallaw
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The main reason women have a longer life span than men is the high rate of early death if you’re a man, higher chance of death in the work place, higher suicide rates, higher stress rates, more risk taking in life, etc., etc. If men had it as easy as women it would even things up substantially.

Roger Falkner Silk
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Roger Falkner Silk
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We must ask ourselves how this sad state of affairs came into being. If we told a group of male breadwinners 50 years ago that half a century of improved productivity and automation in the workplace would result in both parents having to go to work just to pay the bills, they would have been bemused, and angry too.

Clearly, public policy to deliberately encourage female workforce participation carries a lot of the blame. Reversing the presumption that being a working mother is a good thing will take a lot of time and a lot of political effort. I know a lot of red pillers tend to be fatalistic about this and will say “we lost the war”. To them I would say that you only lose when you stop trying to win. Just as some of the victories of the liberal left would have been unthinkable 50 years ago, we too must think the unthinkable to make it happen.

The main obstacle to the return of traditional families, however, is economic. Most mothers who work do so not because they are fanatical feminists or feel that having a career is more important than motherhood. They work because the husband’s income is inadequate to support the family.

Part of the problem is housing, the price of which is largely determined by the level of demand. One earner families are going to have a hard time competing with two earner families for a limited supply of housing. As a result of this in many parts of the developed world a decent sized family house is beyond the reach of most young professionals buying on a single salary.

Another problem is of course that people expect more these days than they did in the past. Foreign holidays used to be a luxury, but now they are seen as “normal”. People eat out a lot more and expect a TV or washing machine to cost a couple of days’ pay and not be a major investment to save up for.

I’m not sure how we counter this. There may be opportunities as further jobs are rendered obsolete through automation to ration the remaining jobs to one job per household, but this would require quite draconian and heavy handed legislation. Maybe more could be done through the tax code to support one-earner households?

Above all, we have to somehow counter the feminist propaganda that being a housewife is somehow a bad thing. This won’t be easy.

123456789
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123456789
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the reason things are the way they are is because weak men allowed it to happen. give women a reason to reject feminism and stop rewarding women who are not quality well adjusted feminine women. still too many desperate men out there who will take anyone and put up with anything to make a big enough impact to change things.

GRock
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GRock
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beta power, the dark matter force of the universe.

Lisa
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Lisa
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Draconian job-rationing legislation and changing the tax code to favor one-income households? So much for the pretense that neotraditionalism is all about the “freedom” to “do what comes naturally” without “government interference”! The mask is off; the young libertarians have become the middle-aged authoritarians. (Nice job luring Gen Xers and Millennials with hipster libertarian rhetoric and pickup tips; but now they’ll find out what neo-reaction and neo-patriarchy REALLY mean. For most, things won’t go well.)

Maximus Decimus Meridius
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There was a man with a plan and it worked.

– Tax single men and women.
– Marriage bonus AND bonus for four or more children.
– Women once married was forced to leave the workforce.
– Available labour pool was cut in half… wages doubled and unemployment vanished.
– Gov policy was to make EVERYTHING citizens needed in the country. No trade, no import, nothing.
– All food imports were blocked, doubling food prices (a sore spot) but ensuring farmers got a good wage and did not move into the cities looking for work (and ensuring food self-sufficiency).
– New bank and new currency was created. All new gov funds went into roads and infrastructure (schools, hospitals, etc.)
– All debts to foreign banks/states was dismissed with the stroke of a pen. A giant FU to the banksters.

I will not name this man. We all know who he was.

Ravi Macho
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Ravi Macho
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Everything is GOOD, but, … “four or MORE children” !?

Maximus Decimus Meridius
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When the fertility rate in The West is hovering at the critical 1.3/female and below that is MATHEMATICALLY UNRECOVERABLE (so I have been told)… yeah… 4 or more mouths per woman IS what is needed. Putin is doing the same thing right now with the Order of something or other for any woman pushing out I think 3 or more kids.

Anti-Gnostic
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Anti-Gnostic
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Your concern trolling is duly noted.

Ravi Macho
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Ravi Macho
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Ironically, same problem is faced by the “majority” in the India/Bharat. A big share of “fertility” rate shown in the statistics goes to the so called “minority” !! The majority are remaining single or avoiding marriage but either way, the result is same; no kids !!

The War At Home
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The War At Home
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One additional point is that the labor market is a market like any other. If you DOUBLE the number of workers by socially encouraging women to work the price of labor (wages) is going to plummet. It’s no coincidence that wages started to stagnate during the early 1970’s. Precisely the time when it was starting to become the norm for women to work. In addition we’re not importing 6 times more foreign immigrants then native Americans being born.

Wages are plummeting because large business interests are doing everything they cay to artificially keep them low. See the: H1B program, Chain Migration, the Dream Act, lobbying efforts against mandatory E-Verify, the lax enforcement efforts against employers who use illegals, massive welfare state programs that encourage irresponsible breeding, etc.

The solution to this isn’t more government interference and regulation. Highly planned economies always fail. The solution is sane immigration reform that values the interests of average workers more highly then those of big business lobbyists. As well as repealing large welfare state entitlements that have had a catastrophic effect on: children’s well being, social cohesion, basic fairness, and the average workers ability to earn a living.

SOL
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SOL
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Instead of going on the job market she should learn some domestic skills and contribute that way.

Roger Falkner Silk
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Roger Falkner Silk
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The trouble is that we’re never going to sell this idea to young women when they are being bombarded with propaganda telling them that domestic skills means “being a maid”, and that successful women should outsource this stuff while putting on a suit and doing a corporate job that mostly involves “networking”.

Oddly enough, the male version of housework – DIY – doesn’t come with that negative baggage. Even if you have to work an office job during the week, it’s cool to be able to mend your own stuff and enhance your living space by picking up technical and craft based skills.

How do we raise the status of homemaker and full time mother to something more women aspire to?

GRock
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GRock
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I think the hive-mind of females is the biggest battle. If other women, en masse, were already doing it, they’d throttle it back to be more like their peers.

SOL
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SOL
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Women are not there to be persuaded intellectually but through other means.

Girl in the World
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Girl in the World
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Sadly, many men have lost those man skills, too.

Girl in the World
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Girl in the World
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It’s possibly too late for me to have a family, though I always imagined I’d have one. I’m sad about it, but I recognize I’m just another product of a larger system.

I never rode the carousel. I was always looking for something real and lasting.

Most men of my generation, Generation X, clearly and vocally favored career girls over those without strong career aspirations. I was strongly encouraged and praised by my male peers to keep my nose to that particular grindstone. My academic and career accomplishments were a source of pride for them. It was as if they would have been embarrassed to date a woman without academic and career ambition.

Western men rewarded me heavily for participating in the career rat race, for aspiring to dress and look like the Hollywood projections, for being “modern”.

The only man I had a relationship with who didn’t attach any positive associations to my career status was a traditional Indian Muslim man. He was proud that no woman in his family ever had to work, that the men brought home the bread and the women tended to the home and family. He praised me most for traditional feminine skills.

The culture taught me that I’d better be able to take care of myself financially, highlighting that men are so likely to cheat, abuse, and abandon. It taught me that it was weak and foolish to rely on a man to provide for me.

I believe three main agendas were driving this:

1. Double the number of tax-payers / drain more money from the masses.
2. Reduce population.
3. Degrade society so it becomes weaker and easier to control and exploit.

Myopia
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Myopia
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This is all by design. The more people using a currency means more money in circulation, and a greater the profit for those who create the currency. Stay at home moms have no income therefore no taxation to take from their production. Better that she work alongside her husband, now needing to hire daycare and cleaning services to do what she once did tax free. Pushing women to work essentially doubled the number of taxable adults. It’s not a coincidence that the early ’60s saw dozens of Western countries simultaneously encourage women into the work force full time.

What they did to the First World is now being directed at Third World women:

https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2016/11/14/SP111416-Womens-Empowerment-An-Economic-Game-Changer

Vegard Johansen
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Vegard Johansen
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And of course the best way to save the environment is to have women working and consuming like crazy. 80 percent app. of consumer goods in the US purchased by women, most of it made in dirty coal powered factories in Asia, and then shipped to the US and Europe in massive gas guzzling container ships. Not very clever.

Ravi Macho
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Ravi Macho
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It seems there is no point in replying to them ! They will never accept & acknowledge and never be grateful to MEN.

Girl in the World
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Girl in the World
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The only way to reverse this disaster is for men and women to work together to reject consumerism and rebuild the family unit. The tools of the powerful are potent – porn, drugs, a dazzling array of consumer goods, shiny entertainment, gadgets. We have to be strong enough to resist these temptations.

Elmer Jones
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Elmer Jones
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Good points Roosh and a tragedy that young women not only don’t get this simple advice but that it is violently suppressed by those who make profit in the feminist diversity racket. I penned an essay offering the same points with the punchline that “you can always get damn job but the window for having children is early and brief” :

Girls! The Work-Life Balance Plan the Feminists Don’t Want You to Know
http://wp.me/p6QFjS-3B

Justin St.Denis
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Justin St.Denis
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“Fair” – as in “That’s not fair!” – is a term that is best reserved for the schoolyard. “Fair” is not a value. “Just” – as in “justice” – is indeed a value. Contemplate upon the differences between the two. You will note the most of the voices in your head that shout “That’s not fair” are children’s voices. And feminist voices. Connect those dots and think about that for a few seconds.

Roger Falkner Silk
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Roger Falkner Silk
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“Justice” is one of those difficult words. Everyone says they believe in justice, but leftists use the word to mean the opposite of what we mean by the term.

Roughly speaking, the left believe Justice means the same thing as “fairness” which ultimately means equality of outcome. They will then use inherently unjust means to pursue those goals, such as re-distributive taxation and so called “positive” discrimination against categories of people who happen to be more successful in a meritocracy.

I think you’re right that the leftist version of “justice” is more childlike than the original (and therefore real) definition of the term. Small children live in a world where they are not expected to contribute or control their own behaviour. ” Everybody gets the same” therefore makes sense to them because they have no concept of things like contracts and earned reward.

Sadly, what used to be the mindset of the kindergarten now seems to be conventional wisdom in college campuses and beyond.

Justin St.Denis
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You are absolutely correct. Thanks for the great response. We likely underwent some of the same educational experiences in our lifetimes. A low tolerance for the vague and the unspecific accompanies the intellectual demand for clarity, specificity, hard facts and Truth. We must restrain ourselves from reacting in kind in an unrestrained world. wink

suzsez
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I suggest the author look to his own qualifications for starting a family. Kick the porn addiction (obvious from your choice of language), find a father or grandfather role model to teach you how to be a loving protector. Oh wait, that doesn’t enter into your equation, because of your own brainwashing. If you want your little wifey to write off her “last kid” at 5yo, so she can enter academia and corporate life and start kicking you her paycheck, you ain’t the daddy type, much less worthy of “wifing”. She’ll be too busy caring for her hyper-vaccinated brain damaged kid to be your little fertile bunny anymore, much less start kicking you her “share of upkeep” because you’re now burned out on “corporate hell”.

John Sharma
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It wasnt about share of upkeep, but a way of having the career as well as HEALTHY offspring if they want both. Ugly women also need the qualification of being sweet if they want to be supported and shagged during their fertile window.

Anti-Gnostic
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“But a violent capable man”.

So how do YOU fit that description? Please elaborate.

John Sharma
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Ok, Im100 kg, lift heavy, keep fit, took up JKD at 12 and had a few fights back before it was called assault. Unless youre mike tyson level im confident, but would still die defending my family. But like most, I wouldnt lift a finger to help any western woman getting raped by podesta,
Bill clinton or any other liberal biological male who are all just like them. You know the guys who agree they are all part of rape culture. Thats why feminized german and Swedish guys are present during the festival rapes, do nothing except try and hide their erections and then go to asia as sadistic sex tourists. The more feminist a country is, the more the native men mouth agreement about opression of women and the higher they are represented among sadistic sex tourists who actually abuse women.

I am like this guy (the bf) as far as protecting the sex positive are concerned. Im not getting charged with assault to defend the long departed honor of a drunken damsel in distress, whats one more for her anyway? If im obliged to call 911 according to the latest laws, then im a samaritan.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3315452/refugee-raped-woman-boyfriend-watch-germany-siegburg/amp/&ved=0ahUKEwib9cq0x8TWAhUFUrwKHUmbCScQFgguMAM&usg=AFQjCNGz9i_J1qjrdcvNlhvHgoiCZXK7PA&ampcf=1

Anti-Gnostic
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“But like most, I wouldnt lift a finger to help any western woman getting raped by podesta, Bill clinton or any other liberal biological male who are all just like them.”

You are making a sweeping generalization here.

“Thats why feminized german and Swedish guys are present during the festival rapes, do nothing except get aroused and then go to asia as sadistic sex tourists.”

Basically, any man who does not fit your description as what constitutes masculinity is feminized.

“The more feminist a country is, the more the native men mouth agreement about opression of women and the higher they are represented among sadistic sex tourists who actually abuse women given the chance.”

So you made an assertion here. Do you have any evidence to support it?

“I am like this prudent guy (the bf) as far as protecting the sex positive are concerned. Im not getting charged with assault to defend the long departed honor of a drunken damsel in distress, whats one more for her anyway?”

If that is the approach you take, you are no different than the rapist when it comes to depraved indifference.

John Sharma
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Yes I made a sweeping generalization. Did you support either clinton in light of the rapes, or did you feign concern for women as victims and chant ‘misogynist’ for a man actually treating women as tough enough to take criticism? “Oh my god that orange obese micro penis tiny hands made reference to a womans appearance!, misogynist rapist.” (And no i didnt vote).

I gave no description of what fits masculine. Feminism feminizes. We are talking of countries where majority of politicians are female, pass laws to stop snow ploughing roads because it is sexist as apparently more men drive to work and make it an offense to stand up and piss. Liberals must act in lockstep and never speak out or question any plank in the agenda no matter how discriminatory or unnatural. It doesnt matter if you tell yourself it must be fair to try and stop you standing up to pee, or traffic chaos to prevent you working, or speaking at all being unnaceptable mansplaining, or your knees taking the span of a womans hips being manspreading. If your definition of masculinity is following feminism you are feminized. If you are forced to follow it against your will you are living in a feminized country.

I looked at the investigation and arrest stats for interpol and europol when i was helping a trafficked and blackmailed asian woman get justice and prevent her tormentor continuing doing the same to others. I had an investigation opened in denmark, because almost all offenders are from Northern european bastions of feminism.

My depraved indifference made it truly sickening to the point I needed to get drunk afterwards when helping describe and provide the evidence. I think i am only indifferent to the depraved.

Anti-Gnostic
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“Did you support either bill or hill clinton in light of the rapes of interns etc or pizza”

I don’t support the Clintons nor Trump. And this “pizza” theory is nuts.

“I gave no description of what fits masculine, but Feminism feminizes.”

Feminism has little bearing on how masculine is a man.

“Liberals must act in lockstep and never speak out or question any plank in the agenda no matter how discriminatory or unnatural toward men.”

Patently false. Please educate yourself.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/06/03/college-campus-free-speech-thought-police-463536.html

“It doesnt matter if you tell yourself it must be fair to try and stop you standing up to pee, or traffic chaos to prevent you working, or speaking at all being unnaceptable mansplaining, or your knees taking the span of a womans hips being manspreading.”

???

“If your definition of masculinity is following feminism you are feminized. If you are forced to follow it against your will you are living in a feminized country.”

So, those tens of millions of men who have supported women in their quest for legal rights and fair pay are “feminized”? That is illogical.

John Sharma
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‘Nuts’ is not an argument but maybe another food the most powerful people in DC have such a passion for that they endlessly email each other about. Perhaps you can explain why they would talk about having only one nut to share at a party with a federally funded catering budget.

I have detailed how emasculating feminism is. “Knees together” used to be followed by “thats more ladylike”. You really are enasculated by accepting you must not manspread, manterrupt or mansplain. Luckily you only make unsupported statements or I might accuse you of whitesplaining. Surely you would resent it.. just a little. Luckily i dont have white male priviledge to punish and then take out a need to vent the repressed agression.

Newsweek is a slightly left leaning centrist publication. Its not cnn, huffpo or salon.

Standing to pee referred to the legislation i mentioned making it an offense for men to do so. Traffic chaos referrred to female nordic politicians stopping snow ploughing because it was sexist to benefit male motorists.
Forget mansplaining, you are in no danger of providing reasoning. Manspreading means your knees are not together, so slightly wider than your hips. Women have wider hips than men, so a man with knees slightly apart is no wider than a womans ass on the same seat.

‘Supported’ not ‘supporting’ I see, past tense. How far back are you going, the bronze age when a bachelor tax failed to bring men back to liberated women and the civilization still collapsed? If men support feminism TODAY they are supporting their own emasculation and status as second class citizens. Men have effectively no rights at all in family courts or campus tribunals. Men are able to give consent when intoxicated, but women are not. Approaching or speaking to a woman without consent is a hate crime etc.

It is the religious desire to associate with the percieved goodness and glory of a past workers, human or civil rights struggle that allows the abuse of a vanquished enemy to continue and grow into a counter revolution. All equal rights were legislated and achieved in …sorry to say it, the west, long ago.

Anti-Gnostic
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“Nuts’ may be another food the most powerful people in DC have such a passion for, that they endlessly email each other about.”

Conspiracy galore.

“Perhaps you can explain why they would talk about having only one nut to share at a party with a federally funded catering budget, and coincidentally have so much art at the places they party showing pedophilia.”

Conspiracy galore.

“As for how emasculating feminism is, “Knees together” used to be followed by “thats more ladylike”. So accepting you must sit like a lady and knacker yourself in doing so is surely emasculating.”

Men in general today sit in the manner they are comfortable with, and are not labeled “feminists” by their brethren in this regard.

“You really are enasculated by accepting you must not manspread, manterrupt or mansplain. This philosophy suits me, if you ever construct an argument I might accuse you of whitesplaining.”

Men in general today speak their minds to women and handle their response how they see fit.

“Newsweek is a slightly left leaning centrist publication. Its not cnn, huffpo or salon, so allowed to stir a little dissent.”

Challenge the material, not the source. The point is that there are liberals who challenge their fellow liberals on a number of topics, which counters your assertion.

“Standing to pee referred to the propsed legislation i mentioned making it an offense for men to do so in sweden. Traffic chaos referrred to female nordic politicians stopping snow ploughing because it was sexist to benefit male motorists. Mansplaining means using logic, reason and evidence, which is opressive of women. Manspreading means your knees are not together, so slightly wider than your hips. Women have wider hips than men, so a man with knees slightly apart is no wider than a womans ass on the same seat.”

Gobbledygook.

“If men support feminism TODAY they are supporting their own emasculation and status as second class citizens.”

You are being patently absurd here. Tens of millions of men are not emasculating themselves merely for supporting legal rights and fair pay for women as their fellow citizens.

“Men have effectively no rights at all in family courts or campus tribunals.”

95% of divorce cases never reach trial. They are handled by the lawyers and a settlement is reached between the two parties. Of that 5%, a judge usually ends up making a decision in the best interest of the child or as equitable as possible for both parties.

“Men are able to give consent when intoxicated, but women are not.”

The law clearly does not make that distinction.

“Approaching or speaking to a woman without consent is a hate crime of misogyny.”

You are over exaggerating here.

Anti-Gnostic
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“‘Nuts’ may be another food the most powerful people in DC have such a passion for, that they endlessly email each other about. Perhaps you can explain why they would talk about having only one nut to share at a party with a federally funded catering budget, and coincidentally have so much art at the places they party showing pedophilia.”

Conspiracy theory.

“As for how emasculating feminism is, “Knees together” used to be followed by “thats more ladylike”. So accepting you must sit like a lady and knacker yourself in doing so is surely emasculating. You really are enasculated by accepting you must not manspread, manterrupt or mansplain. This philosophy suits me, if you ever construct an argument I might accuse you of whitesplaining.”

WTF?

“Newsweek is a slightly left leaning centrist publication. Its not cnn, huffpo or salon, so allowed to stir a little dissent.”

It’s more than a “little dissent”. The article clearly shows that liberals are calling out liberals.

“Standing to pee referred to the propsed legislation i mentioned making it an offense for men to do so in sweden. Traffic chaos referrred to female nordic politicians stopping snow ploughing because it was sexist to benefit male motorists. Mansplaining means using logic, reason and evidence, which is opressive of women. Manspreading means your knees are not together, so slightly wider than your hips. Women have wider hips than men, so a man with knees slightly apart is no wider than a womans ass on the same seat.”

You are clearly projecting things here. Today’s men speak how they want to speak and sit how they want to sit, regardless if a woman calls them out on it.

“If men support feminism TODAY they are supporting their own emasculation and status as second class citizens.”

No. Tens of millions of men have the liberty to support political rights for women. It does NOT mean they are emasculated or have been feminized.

“Men have effectively no rights at all in family courts or campus tribunals.”

95% of divorce cases end up NOT in court. The other 5%, the judge usually works with the former husband and wife to ensure a fair settlement.

“Men are able to give consent when intoxicated, but women are not.”

No, there is no distinction when it comes to the law on this matter.

John Sharma
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If you can not explain all the evidence of pedophilia, you can call it a correct conspiracy theory. You should at least have an explanation for a party of politicians needing to share a slice of pizza in an email.

I have explained to you 3 times about manspreading, mansplaining,
and the legislation in scandinavia. “Wtf”? Does not counter it. You do understand it.

If liberals were seriously calling out liberals the insane culture of identity politics would never have developed. You are a prime example of the typical one defending and closing your eyes to the insanity. Many simply defect. Bernie Sanders said ‘we need to get beyond identity politics’ and was deposed.

For me to be projecting any of those things they would need to be my own creations. They are the work of feminists, not me. Feminists legislate things that men must follow. Pelosi held forth on a panel, and all the men stopped speaking and giving their opinion by saying ‘do women get to speak around here?’ In mexico they put seats on busses and trains with a plastic penis in it and a sign saying it is for men to sit on, to shame men about manspreading. Ive noticed hardcore sjw men are very hard to distinguish from gay on tv news panels because they hunch themselves down to not be bigger physical presence than the women. They are mindful to not manspread their shoulders or height, not just legs. If you had said ‘todays men in saudi arabia or rural texas’ you would be correct.

You consistently avoid the details of ‘rights for women’ today. I have given you plenty of examples of what issues are being pushed. Feminism is a hate cult bent on male enslavement and female supremacy. Their agenda clearly reflects that and all in the name of ‘rights for women’, but it is rights ONLY for women.

Did u mean 95% of divorce cases the woman keeps the children and house? Get real. In reality fathers have zero rights if the word ‘abuse’ is invoked and encompasses almost anything with a total double standard, no evidence required.

The law is campus tribunal. Women can not give consent but men can by their rules. This is also promoted throughout media, women taken advantage of intoxicated as victim but the equally intoxicated man being fully responsible for what he does.

Anti-Gnostic
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“If you can not explain all the evidence of pedophilia, you can call it a correct conspiracy theory. You should at least have an explanation for a party of politicians needing to share a slice of pizza in an email.”

Accusations and supposition is not evidence.

“I have explained to you 3 times about manspreading, mansplaining, and the legislation in scandinavia. “Wtf”? Does not counter it. You do understand it.”

I understand that “manspreading” and “mansplaining” are made up terms.

“If liberals were seriously calling out liberals the insane culture of identity politics would never have developed.”

Right, because motion pictures of the 1920’s, rock and roll music of the 1950’s, and the Internet of the 1990’s had little to do with the expansion of our culture, it was simply liberals who did not call out other liberals. Furthermore, “identity politics” has been around since the creation of nation-states.

“You are a prime example of the typical one defending and closing your eyes to the insanity. Many simply defect. Bernie Sanders said ‘we need to get beyond identity politics’ and was deposed.”

Pot, meet kettle.

“For me to be projecting any of those things they would need to be my own creations. They are the work of feminists, not me.”

You are responsible for perpetuating those creations.

“Feminists legislate things that men must follow.”

Citizens create laws for their fellow citizens.

“Pelosi held forth on a panel, and all the men stopped speaking and giving their opinion by saying ‘do women get to speak around here?'”

That is a figment of your imagination.

“In mexico they put seats on busses and trains with a plastic penis in it and a sign saying it is for men to sit on, to shame men about manspreading.”

That is a figment of your imagination.

“Ive noticed hardcore sjw men are very hard to distinguish from gay on tv news panels because they hunch themselves down to not be bigger physical presence than the women. They are mindful to not manspread their shoulders or height, not just legs. If you had said ‘todays men in saudi arabia or rural texas’ you would be correct.”

That is your figment of your imagination.

“You consistently avoid the details of ‘rights for women’ today. I have given you plenty of examples of what issues are being pushed.”

Which are overblown generalizations on your part.

“Feminism is a hate cult bent on male enslavement and female supremacy. Their agenda clearly reflects that and all in the name of ‘rights for women’, but it is rights ONLY for women.”

You really have been bamboozled in your life.

“Did u mean 95% of divorce cases the woman keeps the children and house?”

No, I mean the 95% of divorce cases by which the man and woman divide up their assets and have terms of child custody through negotiations.

“Get real. In reality fathers have zero rights if the word ‘abuse’ is invoked and encompasses almost anything with a total double standard, no evidence required.”

In reality, fathers have their legal rights protected, with evidence required if there is abuse.

Are you done sperging here?

Anti-Gnostic
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“If you can not explain all the evidence of pedophilia, you can call it a correct conspiracy theory. You should at least have an explanation for a party of politicians needing to share a slice of pizza in an email.”

Fake News Story.

“I have explained to you 3 times about manspreading, mansplaining,”

Which observably does not exist.

“If liberals were seriously calling out liberals the insane culture of identity politics would never have developed.”

Popular culture developed out of people desiring to be entertained, not liberal or conservative political manifestations.

“In mexico they put seats on busses and trains with a plastic penis in it and a sign saying it is for men to sit on, to shame men about manspreading.”

Sources or retract.

“Feminism is a hate cult bent on male enslavement and female supremacy.”

Only in your mind.

“Did u mean 95% of divorce cases the woman keeps the children and house?”

No, 95% of cases by which there is an amicable settlement.

John Sharma
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I provided several sources about 3-4 days ago. Sources proving everything you dispute or claim i only imagine. Im sueprised you missed the mexico-train-shaming-penis-seat story if you frequent anti feminist pages to take up the good fight. The post went for moderation approval by roosh and this debate was killed instead. I guess he doesnt want any long back and forth dominating the reading of comments. Anyway i know you are not arguing authentically, above you responded to someone that there is no such thing as a concern troll and then went on to call someone else a concern troll.

Anti-Gnostic
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“I provided several sources about 3-4 days ago.”

No, you did not offer links.

Are you done here?

John Sharma
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Às i said, it went for moderation with all the links but roosh did not let it through. Yes u can pull your pants up now.

peakpower
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Our society is so out of touch with reality. Women are insane these days. They need to stop trying to be men and get back to popping out crotch fruit. Nothing satisfies a women better than having her boobs suckled by a nursing baby.

Jackie
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Logically, I know this is good advice and I would love to take it but I could never apply it to my own life. My mom would never let me stay home and work unless I was going to school full-time, so here I am starting my first year of college. I don’t feel like I have any other choice in the matter.

Additionally, the ridicule I would get is another reason to back off from it. I know that’s a dumb reason but I can’t help but care what people think about me. I don’t think I could handle having my family be disappointed in me for not going.

Roger Falkner Silk
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And so we see the illusion of the “choice” feminism provides for young women in the 21st century.

Two bits of advice. I think you are right to heed your family’s wishes, but don’t let the college degree or the employment it leads to define you as an individual. You are bigger than that; these are just means to an end.

Secondly, college will most likely be a vipers nest of leftists. Remember that being in the majority, and often having the approval of the professors, does not make them right. Don’t debate them, because they won’t listen to logic and will attack you in any way they can.

I’m sorry I can’t offer anything more positive. Keep doing the right thing and maybe you’ll find a path to where you want to be.

GRock
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“…..but don’t let the college degree or the employment it leads to define you as an individual. You are bigger than that; these are just means to an end.” << This is the biggest hurdle strong, independent, more so obstinate omen need to drop! They want a fucking life-cookie of all-categories-success for these check-box accomplishments, and in damn near every case, they get it anyways because legislation and patriarchal government says so.

If you've done something millions of other people have also accomplished, you essentially at the core, imitated like a pro, until you felt your rite of passage has occurred. Then, you ascribe the title "Pro" to yourself. We all do it in our minds to some extent, and in some arena we've all faked it till we made it. Another major problem I see with career women, is they don't fucking LET GO of this idea that;"I did X,Y,Z like they said, now where's my proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?"

One thing men – and I'm excluding probably 50+% of the population that includes the hipster cross-over shock fag type so prevalent now – have endured for ions, is that no one gives 2 shits about your meager 100,000X over accomplishments in life. If someone does take notice, real men – who still walk among us – have mastered modesty. Women, en masse, and their catty ways, have yet to master modesty. I guess when so much of your life is focused around looks, that's something that carries over into all areas of your life. Master's degree – check, house – check, husband – fail. Honor towards men is what women have lost and paid dearly for it.

Anti-Gnostic
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“If someone does take notice, real men – who still walk among us – have mastered modesty.”

Modest, you? No, you just revealed that you fucked someone else’s girlfriend without shame.

GRock
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Ok, here’s a plan. Get the degree, get your first job, get out of the house, then go on a man-hunt. Should be really easy.

Roosh
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It does take a village to allow a woman to become a woman.

Danny
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I suggest you finish school quickly. A degree can be achieved in 5 years if you’re diligent. You’ll be 23 years and ready to marry. Or go to 2 year certificate degree. Then you’ll have a marketable skill and can do this part time. The dating market for women is limited. Snag the right one at the right time. Help him achieve his career goals.

shura
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This. My old school Russian grandmother was horrified when she learned I was headed to NYU. She was an educated women for her day and social circle … French from a tutor, a handful of literature and art classes … but four years at a city university!? Horrified. Contrast that with the high school guidance counselor when I told him I wasn’t much interested in a career, I just wanted to be a good wife and mother. Equally horrified. He all but needed smelling salts.

William
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Women with bachelor degree have lower divorce rates. Yet women with masters degrees have lower marriage rates.

ua2
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I would be curious to see the divorce rates between women with bachelor degrees and women without bachelor degrees who had the same IQ and level of future time orientation.

Danny
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We can’t tell women to settle down. Settling down has all sorts of bad implications that are anathema to modern women. Women won the battle at the cost of men who can’t afford them. Even at these low marriage rates, existing marriages don’t survive for women are even more bold at destroying them. They want what they want and they want out as well.

The culture can change one woman at a time. They must change their ways. They must snag a marriageable man and ensure the marriage survives. As having divorced and on my second, it’s not pleasant for men. Women must decide if marriage means having kids. Too many marriages don’t make that assumption. In fact, many women marry and if they consider their husbands to not be father material, they will dump their husbands and seek another. Not a plan that works. I’m speaking from experience. I did get kids in my second marriage, but only one. Men must be equally picky. Dump flaky women.

superscope61
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should not be working anyway…should be at home popping out kids and cleaning the house…anything else will be the end of the human race.

Roger Falkner Silk
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But if we express it like that, we are hardly going to appeal to women who might be interested in our cause. With all due respect, your language is hardly giving the role of mother and homemaker the honour it deserves.

Ravi Macho
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Agreed, because the truth NEVER appeals, especially to females.
Why we (and the Society) over-exaggerate and give them undue credit for something that is 100% Natural, Mundane and Obvious !!

Any d**n female in any d**n living species does the same thing ! and they can’t do “that” without a MALE (unless they are “hermaphrodites” !!). I also wonder how come the worlds population reached BILLIONS, if the child-birth pain is indeed “excruciating” !!

Again, they will NEVER accept & acknowledge efforts of MEN and will NEVER be grateful. And yes, “we are hardly going to appeal” to the females, because; They have already got it ALL !!

From the Toilet paper to Tampon, Mammography to Gynecology, Antiseptics/Antibiotics to Pain relief, Smartphones, Cameras, TVs, CD/DVDs, Watch/Clock, Microwave, Refrigerator, Electricity, Transport, Banking, Battery (for “dolls” !!) … almost everything !!
So why it’s gonna “appeal” them anyway !? Simply “bask and enjoy” on the efforts and hard-work of MEN !

PS: I am not supporting the “way of expression” in the original comment BUT I can understand His emotion.

Ray Songtree
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This was great. You hit many salient points. What is so great about staying in brain washing schools? What is so great about being with so many boys that sex becomes a game and an addiction instead of a way to bond with someone meaningful? Now on the cautionary note, fertility is decreasing due to so much toxic crap in food, air, water, vaccines and wifi frequencies. If a woman waits, not only will she lose fertility, but so will the man she might want to make a life with. The only way this essay would have been greater is if it was written by a woman who had experienced being an insufficient single mom and was now older and no longer appealing and alone. Katherine Hepburn the lesbian actress and poster girl feminist said that career and being a mom cannot happen simultaneously. At least she was honest.

Daphne Reese
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I agree with many other things written on this website, but this post is just TERRIBLE advice for a woman, and I’ll tell you why.

Roosh assumes that a girl who skips college and hookup culture will automaticity find a husband. But what if she doesn’t? She’ll be pushing 30, with no education, and no way to support herself. She’d be f**ked.

Why should a girl believe you, anyway? This is no different from feminists telling boys they just need to be “nice guys” to win over women. Point is: humans are terrible at predicting what they really want. Your hypothetical “dream girl” in this scenario would come across as lazy, powerless, and stupid. Men would pass her over for the cool girls taking the reins of their own lives instead of waiting for Prince Charming to swoop in and rescue her.

Daphne Reese
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I take this somewhat personally because this is essentially where I find myself today:

Marriage was always my #1 goal–over career, over everything. I went to college, but I specially picked a mommy/wife-friendly career with an eye toward raising kids and supporting my future husband’s career. (As opposed to going to grad school and climbing the career ladder like my life depended on it).

Now, I’m 34. Still no husband, egg clock is ticking. I may have to go the single-mom route now, and I’m REALLY wishing I had a grad school degree and high-powered salary to fall back on, since I apparently have to become my own damn husband now.

If you want women to take a step down, then MEN need to rise to the fucking challenge and step up first.

Roger Falkner Silk
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Firstly let me thank you for your contribution to this forum and express our sympathy that you have not so far been successful in finding that which you seek.

We of the traditionalist right know that there is not always a match of man and woman. But that does not invalidate the efforts of those who seek to build that union.

Yes, men need to do more, and a lot of the arguments on this site and on Return of Kings are about urging men to do more to be worthy of the kind of relationship you are talking about. But it’s an uphill battle.

In the kind of society I would like to see, women such as yourself would be cherished, valued, cared for and given an important role. We need aunts as well as mothers to nourish the next generation.

Obviously that kind of society does not yet exist, so I can only offer cold comfort. You are valued.

Anti-Gnostic
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“Yes, men need to do more, and a lot of the arguments on this site and on Return of Kings are about urging men to do more to be worthy of the kind of relationship you are talking about. But it’s an uphill battle.”

No, the advice generally offered is to “pump and dump”.

“Clearly, public policy to deliberately encourage female workforce participation carries a lot of the blame.”

Why don’t you blame capitalism, industrialization, and religion, too? Listen, female workforce participation helped to build Western Civilization. It’s here to stay.

hv
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“female workforce participation helped to build Western Civilization. It’s here to stay.”

there isn’t any evidence to support that premise. Western civilization did just find, and actually thrived and dominated without feminism and “female workforce participation.” Some of the greatest scientific and technological progress in the West was made pre-feminism and without women’s participation, or at best, marginal participation.

You may be right that “it’s here to stay” .. but if it is, it will only contribute to the decline in Western civilization. There isn’t any reason women have to work and waste away their most fertile years trying to put their career first. It’s a recipe for demographic and civilizational decline, and that’s precisely what you’re seeing in the West today.

Lisa
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What is the current annual salary for an “aunt”? Asking for a friend.

Roosh
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Your standards are too high. Any woman, no matter how ugly, can have her choice of provider males. I’m sure you’re leaving out many events which led to your failure.

Lisa
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THERE ARE MORE WOMEN THAN MEN. Therefore, even if all women–and all men–tried to marry, many women would not find mates. If you want to see more marriages, you’re nagging at the wrong sex. Why not encourage all MEN to try to marry and browbeat those who are reluctant? Instead of pestering all women to do what in fact not all women will be able to do?

Bavieca
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THERE ARE MORE WOMEN THAN MEN. Therefore, even if all women–and all men–tried to marry, many women would not find mates.

Legalize polygamy so that every 50,000 hypergamous women may have her share of the Duke of Cambridge or Christian Grey or Chris Hemsworth or Ryan Gosling or Justine Bieber and whine no more about “where have all the good men gone”? Inshallah.

If you want to see more marriages, you’re nagging at the wrong sex.

Why would you think that Roosh somehow derives pleasures from seeing OTHER PEOPLE get married is beyond me, especially when those OTHER PEOPLE are strangers to him.

Why not encourage all MEN to try to marry and browbeat those who are reluctant?

That might work well in the past, but after the rise of MGTOW, you need so much more than shaming language and verbal intimidation. You’d need the gobmean to impose draconian bachelor tax, ban porn, ban sex doll, deny men the freedom of speech, freedom of association, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Instead of pestering all women to do what in fact not all women will be able to do?

Legalize polygamy so that every 50,000 hypergamous women may have her share of the Duke of Cambridge or Christian Grey or Chris Hemsworth or Ryan Gosling or Justine Bieber and whine no more about “where have all the good men gone”? Inshallah.

The War At Home
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Bingo. Hit the nail on the head.

KL
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You and Daphne have the same issue. You are both college graduates who have dated around 1,000 people and are searching for spouses to have children. So let me introduce you. Daphne is an intelligent, fair, blonde, blue-eyed 34-year-old with her own six-figure career, feminine enough to wear stilettos. I expect to be invited to the wedding.

Roosh
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Bit too old for me though, even if she’s perfect in every other way.

KL
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Such a pity. sad You left good relationships in Brazil and Eastern Europe. Now you would be governed by traditional local divorce laws, not U.S. laws. Besides, your U.S. assets are protected, you are not rich, and you do not have a large documented income. Let us know when to plan an engagement party.

EvigtRegn
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I’m sorry to hear that it didn’t work out as expected.

What were you doing from age 18 to 34? That’s 16 years.

Were you really searching for a husband all that time as your first priority?

Daphne Reese
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What have I been doing for the last 16 years? Dating like it’s my job. Seriously, I must have dated 1000 different men at this point. (READ: dated, NOT slept with many men) For years, I was on all the dating apps, lining up a different date every night of the week (and often double-booking dates at next-door bars and such). I have been seriously husband-hunting since age 24.

So, 10 years:

Age 24-27, serious relationship. After 3 years, I gave a marriage ultimatum. Man-child bf “just wasn’t ready.” I broke up with him.

Age 27-30, no luck, no relationship.

Age 30-31. One-year relationship. Mutual breakup, we just weren’t falling in love.

Age 31-Present. No fucking luck.

The point I’m trying to make is that not every old maid just wakes up one day like “oh, I forgot to look for a husband.” For some people, it just doesn’t work out, no matter what they do. If I end up alone, it will NOT be for lack of trying.

Over the years, I have figured out what’s “wrong” with me, but unfortunately it’s nothing I can fix. I have an extremely high IQ (top 0.02%). (Yes, I’m very rare, but I do exist). Men simply don’t want a woman who is smarter than they are. (Actually, not true, but the men who do are beta losers who look at me as their meal ticket).

Maybe smart women are an abomination of nature, and this is Darwinism weeding me out.

shura
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I’m sure you’re highly intelligent, truly, and I hate that you consider this a fault, but … at the top of your game you devoted three years to a relationship without clear marriage prospects? That’s not smart. And dating apps? yikes. This is maybe why women falter here. We don’t have mothers or mentors guiding us through the basics.

Daphne Reese
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Possibly true but I mean, I pulled the plug at 3 years! How much faster should I have “figured” it out? The relationship appeared very promising: BF was madly in love, we spent all holidays with his parents, attended friends’ weddings, etc. Man-child cried when I broke up with him and begged me to move in. Today, 7 years later, he’s still single.

Another BF I dumped because he already had a vasectomy because he didn’t want any children. (Yes, another Man-Child). It’s an epidemic.

shura
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smile They’re all madly in love.
Three years is forever! You should know within a few dates at most. Almost any man will know whether you will sleep with him within a few dates or sooner. A man child should be as obvious to us as a whore is to them. He was your age?

Daphne Reese
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He was 1 year younger than I.

That is definitely one mistake I made while young: all my boyfriends were my age (or within 3 years). I should have been dating older.

Someone really needs to warn younger girls. The boys their own age will happily ride the carousel until they’re 40+, and then go on to marry a much younger girl and have kids. Biology is not so kind to women.

Astrid Esther 1972
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Dear Daphne, I read your personal story and the answers to it with interest and sympathy. I don’t know if you are religious but allow me to pray for you finding a good husband.
And if not, like Roger Falkner Silk said: we need urgently good aunts. And a society which appreciates the feminine woman (also with higher IQ, why not? Exceptions confirming the rule).
Western young men nowadays are in most ways very immature (compare photos of the 19th century and early 20th century with pictures nowadays) and most men turn their opinions of marriage and family issues with 35 – 45 yrs. Besides women of the same age looking older than their male peers.
I had the luck that I discovered this fact in my teens and was always looking for an older husband (to my mothers disgrace). The age-gap is only 10 yrs, nothing at all, but horrible for some people.
I live in Middle Europe and watching how often liberal/+ left vip men or left-liberal middle class men change their wife/girlfriend into a younger one (because of falling in love, of course!) and claiming they are feminists.
I wish you good luck.

William
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I warn my 3 daughters that men their age will likely not marry them. I tell them to date much older men, and don’t postpone marriage even if they’re in college.

shura
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oh boy. Well, I did the same in college – fully convinced I would meet my soulmate there, as my mom did. And I wouldn’t listen to anyone who said otherwise, my mother included. You don’t meet many marriage ready 20 yr old alphas! It’s ok. They should be out conquering women and the world. But I refused to accept this until I was 23. Turns out older is much better. I took a massive risk for that older alpha though, and it may not have ended as well as it did. At 34 how old would you go? I don’t think 34 means game over. Maybe it means you should adjust your aims. Biology is different for us, but I can’t say unkind. I believe in a kind hand behind it.

If a girl accepts Roosh’s well intentioned advice, she should also be aware of the accompanying risk. There are a lot of risks, aren’t there?

The War At Home
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They’re all ‘Man-Children’ because they don’t want to marry you? Have you ever considered that you didn’t bring enough value to the relationship for them to put a ring on it? Especially considering the catastrophic legal and financial risks around marriage and children today. As well as the absolute lack of benefits regarding such a proposition.

Next time you probably should sit back and ask yourself the question: “What’s in it for them to marry me and give me children?” Considering the huge legal risks men have to shoulder, and your advanced age; you better start seriously dating down or you’ll end up alone and childless.

GRock
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With an IQ that high, your screening methods should have gotten better. No offense. Seriously. 1000+ dates falls in the category of what men here would call a Serial Dater. We have a conundrum among females with similar stories it seems. Women are programmed to shoot beyond their target to find the best man possible. That can really backfire. And it’s true, at some point, it’s either settle for a lower target, or learn methods to be comfortable alone. I also see another trend, girls who place themselves – and not to be vain or materialistic here – way too far above their punching weight in looks. 6s who genuinely think they’re 9s in the mirror. The self image that started in youth, and never stopped during aging.

A man with an IQ higher than yours, billions in the bank Christian Grey or what have you, will still chose an 8 with a 118 IQ over a 6 whose a savant level IQ, and it’s not because of intimidation of your success or intellect. Not saying I wouldn’t think you’re very attractive, just something I see as a trend that may have subconscious feminist drivers loaded in women they don’t even know they practice when spatially aware.

Lisa
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You make some good points. Although–if men who look at a spouse as a “meal ticket” are losers, what would you call women who do the same? Are you open to marrying a man who is employed and solvent, but doesn’t necessarily make quite as much money as you do?

The War At Home
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No your standards are too high. If you’ve been on 1000 dates and couldn’t find one suitable husband then you’re smart enough to know that the problem is you. Seriously. Men don’t have a shit how smart you are. We care about: Youth, Attractiveness, and Disposition (generally we want someone kind and submissive).

KL
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Is that top 2% (the qualifying level for Mensa) or .02%, i.e., .0002? On reflection, you and Roosh have the same issue. You are both college graduates who have dated around 1,000 people and are searching for spouses to have children. So let me introduce you. Roosh is a tall, dark, handsome, 38-year-old, well-travelled, and widely read author. I expect to be invited to the wedding.

hv
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“Men simply don’t want a woman who is smarter than they are. (Actually,
not true, but the men who do are beta losers who look at me as their
meal ticket).”

this may be partly true.. but it is over-stated by women I believe. I don’t think most men really care that much about a woman’s intelligence, education and career accomplishments. I mean an intelligent and educated man does want a relatively intelligent and educated woman as a wife but it’s not as important as other qualities, which are attractiveness, being slim and sexy, not having ridden the cock-carousel, and being good wife material, i.e, knows how to cook, and is caring and loving. T hose are the qualities I know I look for mainly in a woman.. and most men who are honest will admit to the same.

I think your problem might be that you overlook good men who would make good husbands and fathers because they’re not as intelligent or accomplished as you are. Those men just don’t appear in your radar and are invisible to you and you look down on them.. and don’t consider even dating them. Women mate across and over the dominance hierarchy, which is another way of describing female hypergamy.. meaning you are only interested in men as highly intelligent and accomplished as you are.. or more.. and there’s probably a very small pool of men who will pass your criteria and who you consider good enough to date and fuck and marry.. so it’s no wonder you haven’t found anyone by now. You might also be correct in your criticism of the “man-child” issue.. but I would argue that is a result of feminism and with men not having the same social pressure to be married by a certain age, thanks to feminism and women delaying marriage and slutting it up during their most desirable years. You can’t really blame men for then not wanting to get married early.. they are simply responding rationally to the current culture and environment.

EvigtRegn
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Sorry for the late reply. Didn’t log on here for a while. I haven’t met you so I can’t know for sure. But my guess is one or more of the following:

– You standards are way higher than what is reasonable.
– You’re not very physically attractive in ways men appreciate
– Your not very feminine in behavior (here the high IQ can hurt you if you’re not careful)
– You give men the milk so why buy the cow, so to speak (like your 3 year old relationship and probably others).

Being honest with yourself, any ring a bell or two?

The War At Home
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Your problem is obvious. Either your standards are too high, or you’re being disingenuous about your efforts. The dating market is an efficient marketplace. If you’re aiming for 9’s and you’re only a 7 you’ll end up alone. You should have found someone to settle with with earlier. Women’s desirability is a perishable commodity. You’ll find a much less attractive deal now that you’re 34 then you would be able to find at 20.

KL
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At 29, you complained about beard stubble, “pigs”, “douchebags”, and “cheapskates” who wouldn’t buy dinner. You dated every night, double-booked, and held “office hours” for men to wait and buy drinks. You were too busy dating to develop your own good career. Now 1,000 dinners later, white men of San Francisco must rise to the challenge of marrying you, despite being intimidated by your intelligence. Did I get your story right?

Daphne Reese
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Not quite. I did develop a great career and now make 6 figures. But it’s not enough to buy a house and raise kids alone in SF. I could have aimed higher and would be making more money now if career had been my priority over my love life. Looking back, all those dates were a huge waste of time.

In the manosphere, the woman is always at fault. You can believe I had dozens of good marriage prospects and threw them all away if that makes you feel better about your own life circumstances.

I have some regrets, for sure, but there is not a single man from my past that I regret rejecting. I refuse to “settle” for someone I do not love just to get the ring and kids. I would rather go it alone than rope in some poor unsuspecting guy like that.

KL
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KL
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Most women find husbands in towns with less than 1,000 age-appropriate single men.
http://www.newgeography.com/content/00242-america-more-small-town-we-think

Hundreds have happily married your rejects by now.
https://flowingdata.com/2016/03/03/marrying-age/

Keep swiping!
https://mic.com/articles/107210/is-too-much-choice-ruining-dating-science-might-have-the-answer

KL
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KL
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Dalrock has the solution. Daphne needs more men!
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/she-needs-more-men/

Edward Easterling
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“In the manosphere, the woman is always at fault.”

I have no big explanation to offer, but I am one man in the manosphere who does not think the woman is always at fault. Too many men are interested in notch counts, pump-and-dump, etc.
From my late teens thru my early thirties, I wasn’t interested in relationships or marriage or love. One-night stands, affairs, and flings, are what I preferred.
Can I blame those girls?
Yes.
Do I blame them?
No.
I was selfish and immature. And several good girls really loved me. Beautiful girls.
So I take blame for my shittiness.
As for game….I was fortunate. I was a handsome young man. Amiable. Fun loving. Somewhat light hearted. And just found myself in good conversations with women. Basically, I was available and convenient for horny girls to take advantage of. Boy did that hurt! Psyche. Just fucking with you.
So I never heard of game until five years or so ago. Until then, I never knew it existed.
But I am a man. If you fuck up I’ll say it. If it’s my mistake I’ll say it.
And I don’t think the woman is always at fault.

hv
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“I refuse to “settle” for someone I do not love just to get the ring and kids.”

This is the kind of modern, Western feminist attitude that will ensure women like you will remain alone and loveless.

It’s not a matter of “settling”.. but of understanding that romantic love isn’t the most important ingredient in marriage. What you need to ensure is a good foundation first.. love can and will develop later. Romantic love is too shaky and ephemeral of a foundation on which to base lifelong commitment and marriage. Find someone who is relatively compatible.. where the chances are good for a good, stable marriage if that’s what you really want.

Tom Dane
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True in a way, this advice might only work in an alternate universe where society itself is different.

Girl in the World
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Exactly. The more I’ve gone against my true nature to project egoic corporate and Hollywood values, the more all types of men have pursued and rewarded me for it.

hv
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“Rewarded” you how? By wanting to fuck you and sleep with you?!

Men aren’t women.. that’s what Daphne gets wrong . She thinks like a woman. and is repulsed by the idea of supporting any man. .and incorrectly assumes men would also react the same way to the idea of supporting a woman. .but it’s just not true. Men are wired different.. and want to feel wanted.. needed.. and want to support and protect their potential mate and wife. Most men are turned off by “strong,” “independent” career women… because those women don’t bring out or inspire a man’s naturally protective instinct.. those aren’t the type of women that men are interested in wifing up. Sleeping with, perhaps.. but not committing or wifing up.

Girl in the World
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Rewarded with attention, dates, dinners, trips, gifts, introductions to the family, discussions of marriage, and on and on.

Very rare is the man who sees through the BS and has larger vision. But I just met one who seems to break the mold. Here’s hoping smile

GRock
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Think of it this way. Guys, for generations have been driving the corporate engine, blue and white collar. For them to say, as a warning I might add, this is “no place for a woman”, doesn’t mean men fear competition or incompetence of women, yet there’s plenty of that with unfairly chain-weighted toxic EEOC driven HR departments, but rather “trust us, this shit sucks worse than you might ever think, why don’t you avoid all that, and find a less soul-life sucking way to lead a happy productive life? Here, let me remind you of some options.”

Lisa
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“Trust me, honey–you don’t WANT my high-paying job.” If you believe that, there’s a bridge in Brooklyn you might consider buying.

GRock
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You want the money, not the job. Life is finite. We’d all rather have the $$+ some or all of the self-satisfaction of earning it ourselves, and NOT the heaps of political bullshit, red tape, and time-draining liabilities that disallow us to enjoy any of the earnings in the first place. As long as the concept of a pussy pass, entitlement programs propping up “underprivileged” protected classes, or egalitarian legislation exist, no woman who gets that high-paying job will ever know the hell men aggregated in those positions went through to achieve them. In fact, in every single case, long-term egalitarian legislation has proven to have precisely the opposite intended result, and damage the protected group worse. Again, in the long-term. Short-term nudges to course-correct I’m not entirely opposed to. Overshoot is bad, and that’s what we see all over. Teach a person to fish right? But then what? Take away the teacher’s fishing pole and give it to the learners? That is what’s happened, and it’s total bullshit and socioeconomically destructive.

Edward Easterling
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“You want the money, not the job. Life is finite. We’d all rather have the $$+ some or all of the self-satisfaction of earning it ourselves, and NOT the heaps of political bullshit, red tape, and time-draining liabilities that disallow us to enjoy any of the earnings in the first place.”

Man, that statement is absolutely true. It’s almost a book by itself. What you really want is the freedom money buys you. And of course some of the finer things like sportscars, tickets to the SuperBowl, and trips to Las Vegas. And all this without putting in/asking for a vacation or punching a time-clock.
Dan Bilzerian may not be a role model around here. But I be damned if I don’t admire his lifestyle anyway. With enough money I would be living like that too.
As for the self-satisfaction of earning it myself, that’s no longer important to me. I’m not a criminal so I’ll take it anyway I can get it and my conscience is clear.
Great statement you make here.

Anne Marie
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as a girl I think there’s some nuggets of truth here about avoiding overloading yourself in college and a corporate career – I realized it was a dead end path being in a demanding corporate job if it’s stressing you out and causing you to gain weight or drink on weekends as an outlet (work hard play hard). I will say guys need to step up more in public chatting up cute & nice girls – my awesome and I never get approached (we’re smart, pretty, well dressed – too intimidating??) and then go to apps where guys (maybe losers / players) are flippant and don’t follow up PLEASE CHAT US UP IN PERSON THERES STILL ROMANTICS OUT THERE I will say these stories are from LA & SF so maybe a move to Texas is necessary

Anne Marie
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I also believe this soulless corporate BS is not empowering unless you get really lucky with a job culture/ good group of ppl – it really drags you down because a caring person is often overlooked or hardened up bc of overzealous try hards who will work overtime / eat into their personal life to get ahead. I get its a competitive world but I think we should reconsider different paths and be open about goals / timelines etc. lucky I trusted my gut when a women in investment banking said to me “you won’t see your kids much they’ll be at daycare” she sounded miserable and I backed out of finance recruiting my friends in finance who are girls are all drugged out

Edward Easterling
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“I will say guys need to step up more in public chatting up cute & nice girls – my awesome and I never get approached…”

In 1982, when stationed at El Toro, in Orange County, a friend of mine had a really pretty Italian girlfriend. Fine as hell!
One day I asked him how I could have a girlfriend that pretty. He said it was easy. Just walk up to her and talk to her. If she likes you, all good. If not, find a new pretty girl to talk to.
He also told me some of her friends were prettier than her. And they were all single. I asked him why. He said,” Because good guys like you don’t talk to them.”
He capped off the exchange with this; “You wouldn’t believe how many beautiful women out there are lonely.”
That always stuck with me.
But it’s the ugly ones I’m mostly been afraid to talk to. I’m scared they will like me.
I appreciate your comment.

GRock
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That’s damn true, as with anything in life, you shoot for the highest goals because frankly, there’s less competition way up there in some cases… not always, but sometimes.

Tom Dane
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It’s very exhausting “chatting up” girls. 8 out of ten you will get rudely rejected or treated with cold indifference …it really takes its toll on a man..only stone cold players can endure it, normal guys give up after some time. Perhaps if women changed their attitude it would be different but it really gets worse not better.

shura
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few girls really understand this, and it can’t be said enough.

When I was 19, just moved to NYC, in a hotel lobby with friends, totally sober I don’t drink. Truth or Dare, I chose dare. My friends had me approach a beautiful man at the bar. A model from Madrid there for fashion week. I went out with that model three times (hi Daphne!) and although a sweetheart, he turned out to be the most superficial, vapid person I’ve ever met.

But I will never ever forget the abject terror and embarrassment I felt walking up to him. It was an epiphany. You men are brave souls.

GRock
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I was at a modeling agency party once in a major city. The owner must have been worth millions, had a 90′ yacht in the seaway outside the event, he too was in attendance. I was with a group of guys who were all straight, mostly good looking but not models. I learned while there more than 50% of the male models were gay, so it made sense to take a shot talking to some of the pretty women with less worry of competitors snearing us away.

Our group split up, we worked the room a bit, not full PUA mode, just socializing. After a few interactions word seemed to spread we weren’t typicals there. The third girl I talked to conversed really well, and natural. I was able to interject some comfortable humor that really set the conversation off. I suspected, but wasn’t absolutely certain, she was an A-list actress we all know.

After about 15 minutes of great conversing, and some deep belly laughs I got from her that night, I noticed from way across the room, the most dapper guy there starting to walk towards us. I think she felt I had no clue who she was because of my lack of inhibition to approach her. Frankly, I didn’t know until about 5 minutes into talking to her. About 30 paces before he arrived at us I asked her:”Hey are you..?” with my eyes squinted a bit, she replied:”Yes, I am.” Funny, the owner of the modeling agency introduced himself – her date for the evening, or rather, her his – spoke a few accolades about his event, and the night went on splendidly.

My point is, was there any chance I’d have a shot at this celebrity? Very likely no. However, on a cold approach, I got 15 minutes of personal interaction that I generated myself, led the conversation, entertained a top tier entertainer, and she was really cool as hell. That night, the training wheels came off for good.

Anti-Gnostic
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So who was this celebrity? Why coy with the name?

GRock
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It’s inappropriate, I have friends in the business.

Anti-Gnostic
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That’s bullshit and you know it.

shura
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it sounds like your foray into the world of celebrity was more successful than mine!

I wonder why some men gain confidence through repeated approaches and others don’t. I didn’t gain confidence from my one try … women gain confidence by being approached .. but I did learn compassion. That’s well enough. That’s a gift.

Anti-Gnostic
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He hasn’t given a name of who is this “celebrity”.

hv
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yes.. this. Just how many cunty, bitchy girls who are too full of themselves and with arrogant, shitty attitudes can a man put up with?

Daphne Reese
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Are you in SF? We should start a girls’ group to go out and meet like-minded men smile

Or, moving to Texas may not be a bad idea, actually, now that I think about it.

The War At Home
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If finding a mate is a priority for you why don’t you take the take the lead and approach men? If something in life is important; then passively sitting around and hoping for it to be delivered to you is a very bad plan.

hv
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hv
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I thought you girls are all independent and empowered in this day and age of feminism. You demand equality but you still want all the men to make the first move?! Kinda hypocritical isn’t it? Heaven forbid a girl should actually be the one to make the first move and talk to a man..

William Adams
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“Millions of women suffer every day because they’re living lives that were designed and optimized for men.”

The feminist response is or will be more efforts and money spent on accomodating women in the workplace, in order to further improve equality. As long as the equality dogma exists, instead of more pragmatic and complementary sex roles, there will continue to be modifications to serve the agenda and model.

GRock
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GRock
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For just 1 day, purely in supportive roles of our existing infrastructure created entirely by men, and now a few women in desk-jobs helping organize, but unnecessarily female (created gendered EEOC hires), I’d love to see all women: road builders, home builders, truck drivers, construction site workers, computer programmers, police, fire women, telecom and tech industry employees, etc. – with all the training and preemptive experience needed naturally – and see the instantaneous meltdown and the country grind to a halt. Perfectly unequal, exactly complimentary is the natural order that always works best.

Anti-Gnostic
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” and see the instantaneous meltdown and the country grind to a halt.”

Yet another delusional comment on your part.

zoso1699
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This is classic prose “finding a girl with half her brain still intact after her parents threw her into the mud pit of blue-haired feminist pigs.”

shura
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“…because what man wouldn’t want to lay down roots with such a family-oriented woman?”

Most of them. Stay at home, family oriented women are regressive, under ambitious, lazy leeches in the minds of men my age. These men fully expect their wives to carry her share of the family’s financial burden. A working class man might overlook the lack of a master’s degree and six figure income, but a ‘better’ man will not. Even then, the working class husband will expect you to have decent job. Very likely it will be necessary.

An older man may think differently. That minority of red pilled traditionalists represented here may think differently. The younger man may change his mind after ten years of marriage to a dragon lady and divorce rape. But for the most part, professional men want educated, professional women to marry, not the part time Starbucks barista.

I’m adamantly against all of this, it’s in full opposition to my conscience and my upbringing, but it’s the reality for university age women.

Samseau
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These men are in the minority, believe it or not. Men who attend college are in the minority to begin with.

shura
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62% of white men in the US was the last stat I saw. Do you think young men without a degree feel differently? The last wedding I attended was of a Chipotle manager groom marrying a five years older bride finishing her masters in political science. Craziness.
But, yes, of course my experience is just that. And I’m discussing men early to mid 20s. At least under 30. To be fair , when I consider the world those men were raised in, and how many have single mothers, it’s easier for me to understand why they believe what they do. The women too. Whats so important about family to a generation raised without one?

GRock
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Actually that’s a good point. I’ve been saying we’re already a few generations deep into the biggest social experiment ever conducted. So don’t be surprised when we see that results we have now. It all makes sense, even if I don’t care for the outcome at all.

Daphne Reese
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This is true. I’ve had boyfriends express disgust at the thought of having a stay-at-home wife/mother.

ua2
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ua2
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Is it disgust or fear? I think it’s more of the latter. Fear or not being able to economically be up to the challenge in the modern economy.

I’ll admit, I have that sometimes.

Girl in the World
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Very true. I posted a thoughtful response a few days ago, but it’s still flagged as [email protected] and not showing. One of my main points is that men of my generation (Gen X) were and still are vocally supportive of my career accomplishments, have made it clear they’d be embarrassed to date or marry a woman without a serious career. Even though I look for masculine, traditional men, a recent date told me he’d never want to support a “dependent” stay-at-home mom.

shura
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Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. I would have liked to have read it

MountainGirl222
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This. Is. So. True.

I’m married to a man in the trades and currently am a stay at home mom with a partial degree. He complained about my “lack of ambition” (I used to have a very well-paid govt contracting job with no insurance or upward mobility) until I got fired, he stopped complaining after my mother had a “talk” with him about how Eastern European/American families raise their daughters (not *all*) and how my grandmother stayed home and treated my grandfather like a king. Now, my mother did go to uni (she has two degrees now), but she stayed home with us even though we were pretty poor for many years (my dad is also in the trades). Basically, she talked sense into my husband, and now he’s proud to have a stay at home wife — and I do consider myself very, very lucky.

Someday I’ll finish my degree, when my kids are grown up.

Tom Dane
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until strong indapendant womenz ™ start working in the garbage and coal industry i laugh at their “equality”

I LOVE BROWN COAL
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RooshV, maybe, just maybe, the institution of “marriage” has run its race?

No longer job #1 for women…

john mcginnis
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Roosh, women don’t even have to forego college, just do it differently and still fit within your sandbox. They go online. Family life is not 24×7 as it is portrayed. There are pockets of downtime to take advantage of. Sign up with a online university and take only one or two classes per semester. Sure it will take longer but by the time kiddies are in K12 said wife could have the AS degree out of the way.

Roosh
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Yes it seems that unless you have more than two children, there’s a lot of downtime and it’s not much of a challenge after the first couple of years.

spicynujac
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The prioritization of women’s careers over their natural feminine desires and purpose was a short lived and destructive experiment. It began around 50 years ago and may last another decade or so, but its original purpose (setting aside any conspiracy theory that it was planned destruction of the culture) was simple greed: increase the wages so that we can sell more products and create a more consumerist, meaningless life in the name of capitalism (in a way that is self-destructive, but I view it as a side effect rather than the original intent).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

Humans need not apply is a 15 minute video which discusses how technology is making many jobs obsolete, particularly through AI. One huge solution to this would be a scheme that takes 50% of the humans out of the workforce–in other words removing women from working may soon be inevitable. We simply won’t have the labor demands to support them.

The problem is, by the time that happens, generations have been ruined. Instinct and nature are strong, and perhaps women will return to their traditional feminine roles more easily than I think, but if you look at the typical female in the west today, she’s not very feminine. Hell, last night I saw one who was taking hormones and has more facial hair than me.

Lisa
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A “scheme that takes 50% of the humans [i.e. most women] out of the workforce” is EXACTLY what was tried after World War II. That didn’t work very comfortably or naturally for most actual humans. Not for overburdened men who gave up their dreams; not for bored, underemployed women starved for adult interaction; and not for the overparented (some would say spoiled) children who resulted. The more-recent trends you despise were an understandable counterreaction to the very policies you now want to re-impose. Want to see a replay of the 1960s and ’70s twenty years from now? Just try to recreate the 1940s and ’50s in the near future. (You will NOT like the results.)

spicynujac
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Off topic but I have to share this–the last girl I
banged was my 2016 Latina ex. I had considered her for marriage but she had a few shortcomings, biggest of which was being raised by a single mom. But she was foreign, conservative, early 20s, very sweet, and appeared to be very honest and loving. And I figure, ok, no daddy? that’s not your fault, maybe I can fill that role. We broke up mainly because she couldn’t get a visa to US after 2 attempts.

I made a visit last week to see if it was worth rekindling and it ended with a bang in my hotel room, but with enough red flags that I will not continue. She’s with a guy seriously now and he was texting her during our fornication. I feel bad for the guy. But what blew me away was I
was curious if she had cheated on me before (keep in mind she’s completely honest with me about her current relationship and seems very trustworthy, plus I’m about to fly back and not pursue a further relationship so little risk in telling the truth). So I asked how many times she had
been unfaithful in her life. She told me, “I think zero.”

What! The! Fuck! I
was too shocked to attempt to get her to explain to me how me banging her
raw and coming inside her while her fiance was texting her was not “cheating.” But it’s truly
horrifying. This was a foreign, early 20s, “conservative” girl. I just laughed and said nevermind.

I don’t know what you call that, but it’s more than mere lying. It’s beyond lying. She truly doesn’t believe she cheated. She is quite forthcoming with me about things, including this other guy, and also that she still has feelings for me, and plus I obviously know she cheated so it’s not that she’s trying to hide or cover up something. Is it just cognitive dissonance? How in the hell can you fuck a guy and not consider it cheating?

I know these stories are all over the forum. And I’ve seen it so many times from friends. OK So I learned again that AWALT. But when one can no longer tolerate even young foreign religious
girls, what is left? It’s so discouraging.

Anti-Gnostic
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“She’s with a guy seriously now who wants to marry her and he was texting her during our fornication. I feel bad for the guy.”

Did she tell you about this serious relationship before or after you banged
her? If it was after the fact, ok, she is f—– in the head. Now, if she told you she was in a serious relationship, and you still had sex with her, YOU are the one who is just as deplorable as she is, as YOU had the choice other than to bang her.

“She’s with a guy seriously now who wants to marry her and he was texting her during our fornication.”

Again, did she tell you who he was and what was his status before or afterwards?

GRock
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Uh, at that point it’s more a choice of sex or not. That bitch would cheat on anyone on the ides of a planned wedding, don’t fool yourself. Granted, there can be a moral dilemma depending on your stance. In other words, do you consider the common man, a true stranger, an honest friend or not? Generally, I do, but then again, this is a girl he had significant history with. There’s no doubt half of us reading this have reconnected with an ex who lied about being with someone when sex occurred. Sounds like the only difference here, is she was very upfront.

This psychopathic girl’s mind had already turned Spicytuna into a good FWBennies, and maybe the only person she could reveal virtually anything at all with little or no retribution. Cost of plane ticket, trip, time, and the absurdity of it all is practically worth crossing that line to see just how fucked up she actually was. The bitch can answer to Karma now, because frankly, she sorta suckered 2 guys, just 1 has no liability attached.

Anti-Gnostic
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Uh, at that point it’s more a choice of sex or not. That bitch would cheat on anyone on the ides of a planned wedding, don’t fool yourself.

“Granted, there can be a moral dilemma depending on your stance.”

No, there IS a moral dilemma here. If spicynujac had sex with his ex even though she told him that she had a boyfriend, he had the opportunity to say no and bounce, but instead defiled himself. Then, he has the audacity to say she ought not have cheated.

“I do, but then again, this is a girl he had significant history with.”

Right. And the first thing you do is make sure she doesn’t have a boyfriend or is engaged. If she said no, then he banged her, only to find out she lied, then she is indeed nuts. But, if she told him before they had sex, and he did it anyways, he is a moral degenerate.

“There’s no doubt half of us reading this have reconnected with an ex who lied about being with someone when sex occurred. Sounds like the only difference here, is she was very upfront.”

WHEN was she upfront, right away or after the fact?

GRock
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“And the first thing you do is make sure she doesn’t have a boyfriend or is engaged.” No, the first thing she does is NOT be there IF she has a fucking boyfriend in the first place. What fucking planet are you from? Pluto, the one that got away but keeps coming back.

Clarifying if a girl has a boyfriend, before consensual sex, is beyond even these campus rape laws stating you have to “ask” a girl for each stage of sex. “Can I kiss your lips, can I carress your breasts?” Are you fucking kidding me? The A-1 typical ass-clown knows shit doesn’t go down like that, not even in the blue-haired, septum-ringed, dyke-spike feminists’ bedroom.

I appreciate you virtually confirming what’s fucked up with women, or faggot men, whichever you are, because your argument perfectly confirms, in total absolution, what is wrong with women. Bravo.

Anti-Gnostic
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“No, the first thing she does is NOT be there IF she has a fucking boyfriend in the first place. What fucking planet are you from? Pluto, the one that got away but keeps coming back.”

Regardless if she is there of her own accord, the guy had a choice to walk if he was told prior to having sex that she was engaged. If he chooses to go through with it, he is betraying his own morality. Are you really this dense?

“Clarifying if a girl has a boyfriend, before consensual sex, is beyond even these campus rape laws stating you have to “ask” a girl for each stage of sex.”

The situation has zero to do with “rape”. Stay on point. There is history here. The guy was feeling that she may not have been faithful to him in their past relationship. He travels a long distance. Common sense tells you that you cover your bases. You ask her point blank if she is seeing someone else. If she says no, all bets are off. Drill her. Then if she tells you later that she lied, then it’s all on her. But if she says she is engaged, and you still drill her, you are no different than her.

“it is the man’s job to keep women virtuistic and moral – on the core basis of the golden rule – because they can’t do it themselves. Your shallow mind has completed this discussion’s circle.”

Dude, the guy is other than virtuisitic and moral if he has sex with a woman who told him she was engaged. They both are fucked up in the head.

spicynujac
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Exactly, it was simply a choice of sex or not. I objectively looked at the situation, and said.. the possibility of me having one more sexual encounter with her is dependent entirely on what I decide to do in the next 5 minutes. If I choose to pursue it, I will get it. If I don’t, I will go home with blue balls. It has nothing to do with her virtue or honesty. That’s a difficult truth for men to accept, but it’s almost always true.

Was there a moral dilemma? I was there to try to get back with her. I’m not one of those guys who thinks the quality of sex has much to do with whether a girl will choose to stay with you or not, but it IS the most intimate thing two people can do, and we shared a lot of intimacy, as well as amazing chemistry, so it was both a chance for us to share that one more time, as well as a push to throw all my eggs in the basket and see if the outcome changes.

If she dropped the other guy the next morning and never saw him again, I wouldn’t judge her (it’s scandalous but come on.. unless you’re dating a unicorn every girl out there has done this or worse). The immorality is continuing one relationship while doing intimate things with another person. And that’s what she did immediately following our encounter. That’s the immoral act. That’s when I started to feel bad for the guy.

It does keep drawing me back to Roosh’s article The Hunt for a Moral Woman. I firmly believe that under the correct societal framework, or perhaps just if she had been accepted with her VISA and under my supervision for the last year, she would be a good, moral traditional wife (at least until the next thing corrupted her). It really has very little to do with the quality or the morals of the woman, but the society she is living in, and the restrictions it places on her. Saudi girls are not more chaste, loyal, and obedient because they are superior to American women. They are simply restrained from their natural desire for hypergamy and destructive behavior.

Bavieca
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Exactly, it was simply a choice of sex or not. I objectively looked at the situation, and said.. the possibility of me having one more sexual encounter with her is dependent entirely on what I decide to do in the next 5 minutes. If I choose to pursue it, I will get it. If I don’t, I will go home with blue balls. It has nothing to do with her virtue or honesty.

Not to mention that if you hadn’t proceeded, she’ll get all benefit of the doubt “women are morally superior so no way would she ever betray her beau, she was just joking and testing you when she invited you for sex.”

If she dropped the other guy the next morning and never saw him again, I wouldn’t judge her (it’s scandalous but come on.. unless you’re dating a unicorn every girl out there has done this or worse). The immorality is continuing one relationship while doing intimate things with another person. And that’s what she did immediately following our encounter. That’s the immoral act. That’s when I started to feel bad for the guy.

Alpha fucks beta bucks, whatever advances the best interest of women can’t possibly be immoral. Her body her choice until she openly tried to sell her body for sex then it’s no longer her choice. Wooohoooo! Murica!

It does keep drawing me back to Roosh’s article The Hunt for a Moral Woman. It really has very little to do with the quality or the morals of the woman, but the society she is living in, and the restrictions it places on her. Saudi girls are not more chaste, loyal, and obedient because they are superior to American women. They are simply restrained from their natural desire for hypergamy and destructive behavior.

Not just those Saudi patriarchs, singlehood itself is also oppressive to women.
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Anti-Gnostic
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“Exactly, it was simply a choice of sex or not.”

No, it was a choice at being a man or being a cad, a decision of being self-disciplined or self-serving.

No amount of moral posturing will absolve you of debasing yourself.

“I objectively looked at the situation, and said.. the possibility of me having one more sexual encounter with her is dependent entirely on what I decide to do in the next 5 minutes. If I choose to pursue it, I will get it. If I don’t, I will go home with blue balls. It has nothing to do with her virtue or honesty. That’s a difficult truth for men to accept, but it’s almost always true.”

It had EVERYTHING to do with YOUR virtue and honesty.

“Was there a moral dilemma? I was there to try to get back with her. I’m not one of those guys who thinks the quality of sex has much to do with whether a girl will choose to stay with you or not, but it IS the most intimate thing two people can do, and we shared a lot of intimacy, as well as amazing chemistry, so it was both a chance for us to share that one more time, as well as a push to throw all my eggs in the basket and see if the outcome changes.”

So I take it that she told you of her boyfriend before you had sex, and you still banged her. Because one more time. How pathetic.

“The immorality is continuing one relationship while doing intimate things with another person. And that’s what she did immediately following our encounter. That’s the immoral act. That’s when I started to feel bad for the guy.”

You didn’t feel “bad for the guy”. You got what you wanted. The honorable thing would have been to simply walk away with your blue balls. Instead, you nutted on yourself and her. Stay classy.

“I firmly believe that under the correct societal framework, or perhaps just if she had been accepted with her VISA and under my supervision for the last year, she would be a good, moral traditional wife (at least until the next thing corrupted her).”

Your “supervision” is shitty, considering you are unable to effectively manage your own conduct.

“They are simply restrained from their natural desire for hypergamy and destructive behavior.”

Look in the mirror before making that accusation, chump.

GRock
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You’re dead wrong, she was the one with the “engaged to be married” status, not him, he was single and unaware before flying across the world to see her. Marriage isn’t a “kinda” “maybe” thing. As soon as his plane landed and she decided to meet him, she was in the wrong. Even agreeing to meet in the first place, pre-flight booking was equally wrong. That’s sexually communal instead.

If I put a friend of mine up to the task of trying to bed my fiance, just to see if she’s ultimately a hoe that would cheat, and she takes the bait, it’s not my friend with his debonaire allure that is at fault, it’s the lying ass shady bitch. Period. Engaged is a promise status in relationships. You sound like a blue-haired Liberal redefining reality to meet new twisted definitions for your argument’s convenience sake.

The best thing Spicy could have done is sent a fucking video of him banging her out, to save his ass a damaged life, caused by a conniving damaged bitch, but no one wants that drama or bullshit whirlpool to engulf their life too, so they don’t, and rather reflect on how low women will stoop, which they do, again, and again, and again. There are good ones, but increasingly less, otherwise sites like this wouldn’t even exist, and they’ve grown tremendously.

Anti-Gnostic
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“he was single and unaware before flying across the world to see her.”

He has yet to specify when he found out the news.

“As soon as his plane landed and she decided to meet him, she was in the wrong. Even agreeing to meet in the first place, pre-flight booking was equally wrong. That’s sexually communal instead.”

Absolutely. Except there is one key missing detail here…when did he find out that she was engaged?

“If I put a friend of mine up to the task of trying to bed my fiance, just to see if she’s ultimately a hoe that would cheat, and she takes the bait, it’s not my friend with his debonaire allure that is at fault, it’s the lying ass shady bitch.”

And she would be better off in the end.

“You sound like a blue-haired Liberal redefining reality to meet new twisted definitions for your argument’s convenience sake.”

Again, when did he find out?

Bavieca
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He has yet to specify when he found out the news.

Doesn’t matter when he found out the news, he didn’t betray anyone, she was the betrayer.

Absolutely. Except there is one key missing detail here…when did he find out that she was engaged?

Doesn’t matter when he found out the news, he didn’t betray anyone, she betrayed her fiancé.

And she would be better off in the end.

What makes you so sure about that?

Again, when did he find out?

Again, doesn’t matter when he found out, she was the betrayer, not him.

Anti-Gnostic
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Absolutely it makes all the difference in the world. If she told him beforehand, and he still had sex with her, he is equally guilty in the betrayal.

“Doesn’t matter when he found out that she was engaged, he didn’t betray anyone, SHE betrayed her fiancé.”

SHE and HE. As in both betrayed the guy.

“Again, doesn’t matter when he found out, SHE was the betrayer, not him.”

Nope. HE was also a betrayer. There is no defending him IF she told him prior to having sex about her situation.

You’re dead wrong on this issue. Drop it, you look foolish.

Bavieca
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Absolutely it makes all the difference in the world. If she told him beforehand, and he still had sex with her, he is equally guilty in the betrayal.

How is he even remotely guilty in the betrayal? He doesn’t even know the guy and he certainly isn’t the one who engaged to the guy.

SHE and HE. As in both betrayed the guy.

Absolutely makes no sense, he doesn’t even know the guy and he certainly isn’t the one who engaged to the guy, SHE is the sole betrayer.

Nope. HE was also a betrayer. There is no defending him IF she told him prior to having sex about her situation.

Oh yes there is. Even if she told him prior to having sex about her situation and 2 months later she fucked him AGAIN, SHE is still the sole betrayer. Hint : SHE, not he, who is engaged to that poor cuck of a chump.

You’re dead wrong on this issue.

How so?

Drop it, you look foolish.

What if I refuse to drop? You’ll unleash the entire non-sensical groundless holier-than-thou ad hominems in your arsenals? Ooh I’m cowering already………..

LOL

Anti-Gnostic
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“Oh yes there is. Even if she told him prior to having sex about her situation and 2 months later she fucked him AGAIN, SHE is still the sole betrayer. Hint : SHE, not he, who is engaged to that poor cuck of a chump.”

Again, both are betrayers. She, to her fiance. He, to his own morality.

Bavieca
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Again, both are betrayers. She, to her fiance. He, to his own morality.

Unless spicynujac explicitly stated that it is beneath him to fuck the fiancé of a TOTAL STRANGER then your ludicrous assertion has no legs to stand upon. And as such, SHE remains the sole betrayer.

Anti-Gnostic
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Men who exhibit self-control and who are moral do not fuck the fiancé of a total stranger if told by the woman she is engaged but still wants sex.

Bavieca
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Men who exhibit self-control and who are moral do not fuck the fiancé of a total stranger if told by the woman she is engaged but still wants sex.

Another predictable lofty-sounding distraction but you still can not prove that spicynujac explicitly stated that it is beneath him to fuck the fiancé of a TOTAL STRANGER. Hence spicynujac didn’t betray his own morality as per your previous ludicrous assertion. And as such, SHE remains the sole betrayer.

Anti-Gnostic
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Spin it however you want, the fact remains that IF he still had sex with his former girlfriend despite being told by her that she was engaged, he betrayed his own morality.

Bavieca
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Spin it however you want, the fact remains that IF he still had sex with his former girlfriend despite being told by her that she was engaged, he betrayed his own morality.

He betrayed his own morality? How so? He never explicitly stated that it is beneath him to fuck the fiancé of a TOTAL STRANGER and so far you surely can’t prove it otherwise.

IF he still had sex with his former girlfriend despite being told by her that she was engaged, he did not conform to YOUR own sense of morality, am I right or am I correct? Why can’t you being honest and own up to YOUR own sense morality, instead of trying to spin it as if it was he who betrayed his own morality whereas there’s no evidence that he ever explicitly stated that it is beneath him to fuck the fiancé of a TOTAL STRANGER? Is it because you yourself actually heavily doubt YOUR own sense of morality?

Anti-Gnostic
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Spin it however you want, the fact remains that IF he still had sex with his former girlfriend despite being told by her that she was engaged, he betrayed his own morality.

GRock
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He didn’t rape her, she had the keys to her own pussy. PLUS, she was engaged. You’re a tool bag, the logic consumes your peevish mind. Total stranger = competition, fucking Fiance = Life Partner. Your logic is why women have serious problems now. Take this scenario to any base-level logic professor 1st year college, and they’d laugh at you in Venn Diagrams.

Anti-Gnostic
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“He didn’t rape her, she had the keys to her own pussy.”

I never made that statement. Strawman much?

Turn up your hearing aid. Spicynujac never specified when his former girlfriend told him about her engagement. If she told him BEFORE they had sex, and he had sex with her anyways, given the fact that she is engaged to someone else, he is also a moral degenerate. Period. End of story. If she told him AFTER they had sex, it’s all on her.

GRock
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“And she would be better off in the end.” < resorting to personal stabs. I concur when he found out could alter one's perception of the situation, but to take a personal stab, then not reveal if you're a typical modernized Liberal defeats your info-probing quest. Maybe, she'd be better off in her own flesh enjoyments if a dozen guys ran a train on her instead. Right?

GRock
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All well stated and reasonable. What I find revealing through personal interaction, stories of friends, and society-wide vibe past few years… call it my bro-science take, is while you had this “chemistry,” women who I feel can’t harness that level of depth to even have that chemistry, are too, acting in similar ways as if they even had the depth in the first place. They don’t, the emotional skill set just isn’t within them anymore to have true depth of, well… anything. My thoughts towards them are “as if.. bitch!” We all know that men are the true romantics, while women conveniently hijack that into a fairy tale for vain rites of passage,.. like a wedding, image memories, etc.

Yet in that romantic stage set by the man, crafted into deep intimacy with the woman as his canvass, the easy-off switch is now flipped like I’ve never witnessed. The combo of feminism, divided house child raising and the resultant young women (soulless, jaded, vain, indifferent), dial a dick apps, cucked and betamized men including would-be suitors and fathers raising daughters even in traditional households, and pornofied media, a massive social shift of shallow-everything has emerged… we have to be at majority-level dysfunction at this point, significantly past 50%. I mean, I know nearly just as many women from stable traditional households who will behave this way and pull this extremely immoral shit. It really is AWALT in the end, and controlling environment as you say, the western experiment has gone on so long now we can practically say it’s scientific fact. The numbers simply support it.

It’s like, some girls know the dance of romance, but there’s just massive voids all over within it, where the collective has complete mind control over them, not just standard herd mentality. A “fear of success” in the romantic realm, which was once relegated to the career, personal talents, and sports arenas is now prevalent in romance. Is it any coincidence this happened seemingly in lock-stem with women in the work-force, the usual “fear of success” arena that holds progress back for individuals to begin with? I’d swear they’re programmed like this:”I like / love this guy too much, this is getting too deep, I’d better default to completely ruining it, while pretending I’m not completely ruining my own life and changing the course for the worse… forever. It never fails.

Reason I said “almost worth it just to see what happens,” is I’ve been in a scientific observational phase of the female western gender for the last 7-10 years, which has cost me some emotional heartache, blue-pill strife of the past, et al, and since I’ve really adopted the red-pill, virtually every. single. girl. I’ve dated, LTRed, or just fucked, has NOT progressed or worsened since we split. I’m no stalker, but check-up tabs on a girls aren’t that hard to obtain with the digital trace everyone leaves. This is not oneitis, it’s observational awe.

Anti-Gnostic
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“We all know that men are the true romantics, while women conveniently hijack that into a fairy tale for vain rites of passage,.. like a wedding, image memories, etc.”

Fake News Story.

“the western experiment has gone on so long now we can practically say it’s scientific fact. The numbers simply support it.”

Evidence?

“I’d swear they’re programmed like this:”I like / love this guy too much, this is getting too deep, I’d better default to completely ruining it, while pretending I’m not completely ruining my own life and changing the course for the worse… forever. It never fails.”

Men and women have this feedback loop. Don’t fool yourself.

“Reason I said “almost worth it just to see what happens,” is I’ve been in a scientific observational phase of the female western gender for the last 7-10 years, which has cost me some emotional heartache, blue-pill strife of the past, et al, and since I’ve really adopted the red-pill, virtually every. single. girl. I’ve dated, LTRed, or just fucked, has NOT progressed or worsened since we split. “I’m no stalker, but check-up tabs on a girls aren’t that hard to obtain with the digital trace everyone leaves. This is not oneitis, it’s observational awe.”

Actually, that is stalking. And since you are already jaded, anything and everything a women does constitutes “not progressing” or “worsening”.

MCGOO
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She wasn’t virgin in the first place. She had rode another penis or maybe plural penises hard beforehand. Let’s get real here, maybe she’s even done cosplay as batgirl for so much as even a previous one notch BF. But that still deflowers her. Deflowered is deflowered. Imagine her hunched sideways in passenger seats and going down on other men’s penises as they drive her aroud. She’s done all that but we won’t mention it. She likes to pretend that she can wipe clean the memories of her past and be good as new.

SO any ‘wedding’ or bewedment to her would be at best a token sham wedding. Maybe it’s just a power union like Bill/Hillary with Web Hubbell in the background. Still all used women who marry do not do so with honor. A 2nd or 3rd wedding is all theatrics with a used carouselling ho. So if a third party man pumps and wrecks her pussy prior to her ‘show wedding’ then the total consummate show for her doesn’t change much. She’ll continue on with her ceremonious marriage as the same recycled ho that she was prior.

One thing you don’t want to do is mess with someone else’s real virgin bride. That would be wrong and unforgivable. But for the remarrying ho, maybe she’s bagging a naive beta. That guy will learn sooner or later. She WILL spread her legs for other men whether she’s in or out of wedlock. It doesn’t matter. Because if you marry a non-virgin, you shouldn’t be so naive to expect total loyalty, barring perhaps incapacitation or her being bedridden. The bottom line is that if you’re not the FIRST man that she’s gone down on, then what the heck makes you think you’ll be her last?

Anti-Gnostic
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Of course, you miss the entire point. spicynujac never specified when his sex told him that she had a boyfriend. If it was before they had sex, and he took her anyways, he is a cad. That is utterly wrong and completely forgivable, given the fact that he knew he was getting poon at the expense of his fellow man.

If it was after they had sex, then she is sluttin’ around.

And, of course, if one looks at this situation from a religious perspective, men and women are to refrain from having sex until they are married.

The rest of your diatribe tells me you were used and abused by the poor choices you made in women, probably because you foolishly thought you could own them and control them…and they rightly made mincemeat out of you.

Roosh
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Don’t try to understand them, you’ll just hurt your brain. Consider that ~10% of people were fathered by someone other than who they think is their dad.

GRock
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Statistics are alarming. Math, is the language of God ultimately. Know the numbers, deny the truth at your own peril.

Lisa
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Lisa
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Yup! Someone who cheats WITH you will later cheat ON you.

MCGOO
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She honestly doesn’t know what she’s doing. She’ll never know what she did. Women aren’t wired to reflect in that way. Women float through everything without reflection. She’s a fine scientific device that reproduces and she must be placed back in her dust cover when not in use. Etch your name across her ass to prevent theft and keep her in your locker. If your unlocked bike gets stolen, do you think your handlebars and seat will start talking and reveal any truth?. You can’t blame the bike for it’s chain and gears performing for the thief that rode it off into the blue like a charging horse when you left it unlocked at the library. Chastidy belts were invented when people had a grasp and realization of hard line truths about the true nature and shortcomings of woman.

Anti-Gnostic
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You are absolutely delusional. Seriously.

Clark Kent
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he’s being harsh but it’s true

Anti-Gnostic
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No, he’s being delusional, and you are endorsing it. Congratulations.

Clark Kent
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Delusional in the sense that what he is saying is not observably true?

Anti-Gnostic
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What he is saying is demonstrably false.

For example, MCGOO said “Women float through everything without reflection.” That would in every single instance, without fail, females are devoid of considering their own actions and how they impact other people. So one example would rip apart his point.

Considering your wife will be in attendance at this retreat, you ought to be minding your tone.

http://www.mounthermon.org/event/831

“She’s a fine scientific device that reproduces and she must be placed back in her dust cover when not in use.”

Basically, this statement infers that any and all men who neglect to keep women on the shelf after she pops out a kid or five like a Pez Dispenser is other than alpha. I would hazard a guess that a number of men would simply label MCGOO’s thought process as being a fucktard, and that is being kind.

“Chastidy belts were invented when people had a grasp and realization of hard line truths about the true nature and shortcomings of woman.”

And, finally, MCGOO’s Waterloo.

http://www.semmelweis.museum.hu/muzeum/kiallitasok/erenyov/reszletes_en.html

Clark Kent
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hehe iunno I think his first point might be true

Anti-Gnostic
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You think his first point might be true, huh.

The train is fine, Clark, the train is fine.

shura
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“How in the hell can you fuck a guy and not consider it cheating?”
Because she doesn’t consider herself in an official, binding relationship with either you or the new guy. This is just how slutty girls think. It’s not cheating until someone commits. She’s keeping her options open. I have an 19 year old cousin in Russia presently doing the same to an American man.
I’m very sorry it didn’t work out, spicynujac..

jayteeniftb
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Men and women aren’t 100% relatable. Equality is a myth, whereas evaluation is reality.

Darwin
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Girls should start having kids in their teens. It’s how biology intends it. The Mormons and Muslims do it. And their families are intact and proliferating. They also don’t drink alcohol and send their girls to work in cubicles.

Anti-Gnostic
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“Girls should start having kids in their teens. It’s how biology intends it.”

Biology, but not necessarily society.

“The Mormons and Muslims do it. And their families are intact and proliferating.”

Which is their decision.

How many white children do you have in your brood? If you have 6 or less, you are not doing your part.

Fny Wlch
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Blame it on Feminism. Feminism has been a trick all along. Doing more harm than good through its evil social engineering.

Felix
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Roosh,
I 100% agree. Men have to preach this in unison!

A consequence of women becoming ’empowered’ and getting encouraged into the workplace is that they are displacing men, who would undoubtedly do a better job in every single role in question. As a result, we have more men who are unemployed.

Women are the cause of lower workplace efficiency and higher male unemployment.

Anti-Gnostic
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“A consequence of women becoming ’empowered’ and getting encouraged into the workplace is that they are displacing men, who would undoubtedly do a better job in every single role in question.”

What an insanely idiotic comment to make.

kramerika
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stinker!

Whatever
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Whatever
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” work a basic part-time job to earn money for tasteful makeup and clothing, learn important homemaking skills”

Add in good emergency survival skills for when it all hits the fan.

Hoplit3
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Most of the manosphere articles focus on how to fuck (and chuck) women, not how to “lay down roots”. Leaving aside the blue haired pig feminists, normal modern women face the problem of men who only want to have fun and nothing leas. Not to mention that it’s impossible to find a normal man if you don’t have a degree, especially in Europe where everybody goes to college. Living with the parents is ok as long as there is some financial independence but beauty and retail jobs are for uni students…it’s virtually impossible to get a job without a college education. Maybe wash toilets, but what man wants to marry a cleaning lady? In addition to that, what man is willing to support two adults plus several kids with a single paycheck? Guys here always talk about not even wanting to pay for drinks when dating a woman, they surely won’t pay for a wife’s clothes, car, makeup, hair dresser…
Where would these two future spouses meet? It would be creepy to drive around high schools, you know. And bars/pubs are out of discussion if she lives with her parents and can barely make enough money to contribute to the home bills…day game is ok but not very plentiful….
Come on, man. I agree with the principle but let’s be realistic. Not all women with an education are whores or feminazis.

MCGOO
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A woman with a college degree has wasted a decade of her freshest eggs and has learned more sexual positions than you. If it was a state party college she attended, then she got drunk, stoned and laid for four years and her memory banks are all full – of useless bullshit. She probably couldn’t sew a rip in a kid’s pants and has never flipped a cheese omlette.

In the real world outside the educational programming matrix, you begin to see how many people function without the brainscrew academic conditionnng. Tte most successful people – and loyal mothers too – operate without official academic credentials or they use none of what they were actually taught. Show me any inventor, enterpreneur or famous author that will give credit to XYZ state university for teaching them how to author best selling novels or how to invent or discover the groundbreaking advance that they can put their name on. Real prodigies develop on their own and have the backing of bloodline and family. And the real successful tit feeeing breeding machine mothers/spouses learned what they do from their own mothers.

Anti-Gnostic
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“The most successful people – and loyal mothers too – operate without official academic credentials or they use none of what they were actually taught.”

That is YOUR metric of “successful people”.

“Real prodigies develop on their own and have the backing of bloodline and family.”

There is no such thing as a “real prodigy”. He or she is simply prodigious in some area.

Michael Laman
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A whole industry has grown up called fertility treatments because women are delaying pregnancy. The treatments are costly and often don’t succeed. Health insurance pays for it, so in effect all of us subsidize the delaying of pregnancy. It’s getting to be a large ticket item, and eventually may come under question eventually. Delaying marriage and pregnancy comes with a high personal and social cost eventually. This is not talked about often, and 60 Minutes did a story on this issue a few years back. Many professional single women over 40 found out they were too late to have children once they went after it.

Red Pill Angel
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You’re on the right track in encouraging younger marriage and motherhood, but I have a slight disagreement about telling young women not to go to university at all. My mom met my dad after university while he was in medical school. She had a degree and was working as a secretary (which used to be considered a good job for a young woman after her BA). If a young woman doesn’t go at all (and sure, some don’t need or want it), she limits her range of potential high IQ husbands, and every girl deserves the best husband she can manage to catch, if she deserves it. (Forgive me for being on the girl’s side!) But on the other hand, the universities have become cesspools. My solution is to go back to the situation when my mother was in school before 1950: every frat and sorority had a “house mother.” No rapes occurred at frat parties because the house mother, usually a widow lady, was on the premises at all times. This was *truly* a “safe space” for women.

GRock
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The truth is that wasn’t a “safe space,” it was an appropriately “Shamed Space” that carried weight when BOTH the matriarchy AND patriarchy coexisted in proper unison. See, feminism ISN’T the installation of matriarchy, it IS the destruction of all proven and valued “archies” that ever mattered in society. Government forced – as a salutory pawn – the easiest minority complex on the entire society… gendered feminism. Next, is next largest colored skin, an down the line. Perks up front, damage in the long term in each minority case. The wise cherry pick and still carve out a humbled, moral existence, the fools dick-ride the trend and lose in the end.

skillett
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The Rotschild machine (of which Soros is the frontman mignon) has brainwashed women into believing that liberation is “working for the man”. But when you work for a family, you have direct input into what you produce. Rather than taking commands.

Anti-Gnostic
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“The Rotschild machine (of which Soros is the frontman mignon) has brainwashed…”

Talk about being intellectually neutered. Wow, just wow.

skillett
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This country needs to stand tall like after 9/11.

Aeronaut
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“Wow, just wow”

That has been found to be a standard reaction from someone who lacks the depth to formulate a coherent or rational reply but feel the need to protest a statement.

In other words, your reply is weak and ignorant sounding.

Anti-Gnostic
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It’s called rhetoric Vox Day style.

Lisa
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Yum, “mignon”.

Mar Jay
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As I said in a previous comment, I am 71, a woman, and still angry about the “sexual” revolution. It’s what changed everything – and permanently changed the economy so that women could not stay home and raise their kids. It’s what fostered the necessity of a two-income family. Gloria Steinem and Betty Freidan were the worst thing to happen to women, and they should apologize. Nor do I approve of the Feminine Mystique. Equal pay for equal work, “Yes.” But we could have done without the “Sexual Equality.” It was a myth that led to women giving up their own feelings and selves to serve men, who laughed at them. The Sexual Equality myth is what made men think they deserved sex from women whether it was their wife or not. It’s what made women think they had to have sex with men before marriage in order to keep them. It’s a crock. After all the Sturm and Drang, we still make 70 cents to the dollar men make anyway. Sucks.

Anti-Gnostic
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Right, a 71 year old women who magically appears on a manosphere site and comments. More like a shill.

Mar Jay
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Nope, I’m for real. I appeared on a “manosphere” because I was actually looking for something else and Google brought this up. O you of little faith.

Ali Owens
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What do you suggest for the women who don’t wish to reproduce?

Anti-Gnostic
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How about asking those men who are single and practice Game and who desire not to marry/sire offspring that same question?

jinn
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jinn
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A therapist.

christiangreypua
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christiangreypua
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nice

Pepper
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First, I’m really grateful for this site, I think most of the articles are actually pretty insightful and the comment section is the only peaceful comment section I’ve seen ever on the internet.

I had a couple of thoughts while reading your article:

It would be very nice to not work full time. I am a 26 y/o western woman (not obese) and have a full time creative job that I really like and is my “dream job”, but would really love it if I were only doing it part time and had the rest of the time to invest in creating community. I believe feminine women play an important role in creating a community that is a well connected and socially healthy place to be. So while men were at war, women made sure there was a great, welcoming place to come back to.

I would like to be married and start a family, but am currently single, but God has been so gracious and has provided me with family and community within my church. I can’t express how relieved and thankful I am to be able to invest in and be a part of building up my church family, supporting the men there, as well as investing time into teaching young women in the teens ministry. I’m not an expert at it, and have to keep surrendering my knee-jerk reactions of being a typical hyper-critical american woman, but it’s something I’m pursuing.

In my personal fantasy I would be able to have a part time or side job for my family.

I grew up with being taught the value of hard work regardless of being man or a woman. I believe that being hardworking as a woman is very valuable, though I think it looks different than how a man should be hardworking.
(The famous Proverbs 31 woman was especially industrious!)

The problem is in the current state things, it is almost a necessity for both husbands AND wives to be working FULL time to support family. (Another reason I think women are not satisfied with Betas is that even Betas can’t provide stable incomes anymore.) I think this is a contributing reason as to why 1st world countries have incredibly low birthrates. There is an attitude that children are seen as a luxury you will need to pay for.

Here’s a thought process for your consideration:
“Ok, I want to have kids, I need to start saving up ASAP because I’ll need to pay for all their insurances to stay healthy, I want them to be well educated, I want to provide opportunities here in my first world country, I want the best for my children… (etc.)” (which also is another reason to have kids later in life)”

In developing countries I think children are viewed as an asset to the family to earn more money for the family, which may be why children are had early and often in developing countries.

To one, children are seen as a financial burden, to the other, children are seen as a financial asset.

Some of these things are probably self evident, but thanks for reading and considering.

Pepper
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Edit: ok after scrolling through this particular post maybe not so peaceful a comment section haha. Still, I would say more of the comments (at least on ROK) come from a reasoning place which is nice compared to a typical hyper emotional “because ma feels” comment section.

Heather
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Why waste time analyzing why American women are complete garbage when there are thousands of beautiful, feminine, foreign ladies that are raised to take pride in being good wives and mothers? I’m raising two boys to look abroad for suitable mates . At nine my youngest boy knows the United States will never again produce quality women , only angry, entitled, ugly vagina hat wearing trash that absolutely will not treat a man as the king of his castle or even as a human being

Simon Andrew Richard Long
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If we had the rightful benefits that technology, and women joining the workforce should have bought us, a 15 hour work week, then family and work would be easy to juggle,

Consider how few are employed in creating things we need or want, fake jobs are diluting the pay of those who actually work,
who wants to eat paper? yet increasing bureaucratic obfuscation, layers of administration, that don’t contribute to food, shelter, med care, etc. divide the rewards pie.

Woman
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I always wanted to get married young, like at 18. At 22 i got my university degree, got a job in my field, and found the right man. Or rather he found me. I was lucky. Got married after 6 months dating or rather courtship, waited with physical relations till marriage. Few years later im here with two beautiful children and a great manly man, my husband, who takes care of us.

Following will be my reaction to some of the comments.

Men as well as women are all morally deprived, some less, some more. Women, as well as men, need some societal brakes to stop them committing abhorrent crimes against humanity (think Afghanistan or the U.S.).

I respect my husband deeply. I want to be the best wife to him. I respect him because he is my husband. First and foremost. Every woman feels disrespect towards her husband at some time, in mans weak moments (a weak moment can be a redpill moment, e.g. unjustly harsh words directed towards wife or children). So it is important for the wife to keep being respectful, whatever her momentarily feelings. Same goes for husbands love for wife.

I respect my husband due to his strength, character, virtues and his capability in many areas of life. I respect, love and like him due to a combination of desirable redpill and bluepill characteristing, using the site’s terminology…

I so love the fact about him, that he respects women too and treats them like human beings. Till this day i remember a moment of his kindness to a very obese woman we once met. At that moment i thought. wow This man does not despise or ignore a woman because she is not asethetically pleasing him.

HE does not see women only as an disposable thing or cattle or stupid feminazis.

This is what normal women TRULY want. A manly man who is also a humane towards the females around him, and in a manly way cares for the real good of them.

i got my Christian husband. Sociologial studies about domestic violence indicate that church going evangelical men are “soft patriarchs”. Well, some should toughen up a bit, but thats for another discussion. From all the socio groups, least violence (thumbs up) , but nice, manly patriarchy. Yeah, i like it. My husband is the head of the household, is my head in fact, according to the Bible. I listen to him. Yeah in fact this patriarchy is attractive to women not only on the basic level, but on all levels.

Male dominance is sexaully attractive to women. You know it already, no surprise here. Explains why some women go for the bad guys. I never went for them because i didnt feel attracted to sociopaths and knew there are some manly men out there who are dominant but also emotionally potent and not completely morally deprived. I would feel miserable if i had no choice but to stay in a violent marriage with my kids suffering. This scars the children for life. Its good that a woman nowadays has a choice.

In afghanistan both the women and children suffer so much because male depravity has no social brakes. Young women put themselves on fire. Dont wish for this. Widows in afghanistan have to turn to prostitution in order to feed their children , if the patriarchs really cared about them, money would be given to the respectable women in horrible situation not in exchange for sex. Isnt it heartbreaking and morally corrupt that a corrupt patriarchy has made this possible?

Our society suffers due to sin.sinsome due to ideas of some crazy women,men ideas, but please see us women as human beings who should not find themselves at mercy of a psychopaths hands with no way out of the hell. Well yeah gasoline..

See, a typical woman. What a rant here. This all could be said in 5 sentences. But i hope you see im a somewhat reasonable woman, accepting and fully supporting some of the sites ideas, while not agreeing with everything. It all comes down, to loving your neighbour as yourself. I always think about that when raising my children. View us as grown up children if you want, but treat us as humans with dignity, please, dear redpill men. Thats why i admire some of the bluepill knighthood stuff… combine it…

Its obvious im not a native speaker, i apologize for the mistakes in the text.

Woman
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Re my words about the obese woman, i take good care of my appearance for my husband and for my good feeling, and my bmi is somewhere around 19. So no obesity acceptance (as normal) here.